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Nancy Grace
Baltimore Explodes. Aired 8-9:00p ET
Aired April 28, 2015 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The inconsistencies begin outside the police van.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) dragging him like that!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have to wrap your hands around the Gray family.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A night of destruction and violence in Baltimore after the funeral for Freddie Gray.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. Baltimore explodes, the city bracing itself for another night of mayhem as 10,000 cops and National Guard stand on the
ready to take to the streets after the unexplained and brutal death of a 25-year-old Baltimore man, Freddie Gray, whose spine is severed in police
custody, the city in lockdown at 2200 hours.
At this moment, the sun sets on Baltimore at 7:57 Eastern Standard Time, the curfew in place, National Guard police, police from three
adjoining states now honing in on the city of Baltimore as the city explodes!
Straight out to Joe Johns, CNN senior correspondent. Joe, what`s happening?
JOE JOHNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Just a little while ago, Nancy, we did have a demonstration here at Baltimore City Hall. It was peaceful. A
group of protesters roving the streets showed up here and protested and chanted for a little while. The City Hall has a number of National Guard,
as well as local police guarding it.
The police tempo has increased significantly over the last, I`d say, 30 the 40 minutes. We`ve seen a lot of activity out on the streets, the
building here sort of surrounded by police on a number of sides, and helicopters in the air, all in anticipation of nightfall. People are not
sure what to expect. As you know, last night, there were big problems, Nancy.
GRACE: With me on the scene is Joe Johns, senior correspondent. In the last hours, we are looking at the statistics of 20 police officers
down, injured, 235 people arrested, fires, looting, throwing huge chunks of rock and cement, the National Guard brought in as the governor declares a
state of emergency.
Joe Johns, bring us up to date. What has the situation been like in the last 24 hours?
JOHNS: Last night, there were huge problems. You have to pardon me, there`s a helicopter hovering right overhead, so it`s very difficult to
hear you.
But last night, we had a lot of looting. We saw some with our own eyes, people going in and out of a liquor store, for example. We saw fires
set both in structures and out in the streets. We saw confrontations between the police and people who were on the street, a lot of lawlessness,
a lot of anger.
Now, obviously, a great deal of this anger is directed towards the death of 25-year-old Freddie Gray. The situation last night really
developed after the funeral of Freddie Gray, which was held at a church on the west side of the city. It went through the evening. They had to bring
in tons and tons of fire trucks from other jurisdictions, other counties surrounding Baltimore to try to get control of the fires...
GRACE: I think what I`m seeing right now, Joe Johns, was the funeral. I can`t really see it with that video because all the throngs of people.
But I know just prior to this, there was an open casket funeral, and Freddie Gray`s mother draping herself across her son`s body in grief. And
that moment, that funeral, that open casket, culminated in a night of violence and chaos, the city of Baltimore exploding after the death of this
young man, 25-year-old Freddie Gray.
Joe, explain to he the extent of violence that has occurred that has required the National Guard to be brought in, a state of emergency.
[20:05:04]JOHNS: Right. There were some questions about whether the city leaders, including the mayor and the police chief, were a bit too
permissive in allowing things to get out of control. Their answer, when you ask that question, is that so many very young people in the streets
were the ones initially causing the problems, teenagers. And because they were teenagers, they had to handle them with kid gloves, as you will, as
opposed to how they ended up working.
But I also have to say to you that of the people who were arrested, the vast majority, we`re told, were adults, only a small number of young
people. So as it developed into the evening, you saw adults out late engaging in this behavior. Some of the looting and some of the...
GRACE: Well, is it true, Joe Johns...
JOHNS: ... confrontations with the police...
GRACE: ... joining me there on the scene there in Baltimore, CNN senior correspondent -- is it true, Joe Johns, that the mayor of Baltimore
said words to the effect that she wanted to give them space to destroy?
JOHNS: Well, she went back and distinguished that later. It`s my understanding...
GRACE: How?
JOHNS: ... that she did say words along those lines. But what she said she was trying to say was that she wanted to give the protesters a
little bit more room, given the situation. And that did cause...
GRACE: Room?
JOHNS: ... an uproar here in the city because, you know, when you talk to people on the streets, in the neighborhoods, who are concerned
about the neighborhood assets, they would have wanted the police to act more aggressively.
So she was sort of stuck between a rock and a hard place, she says. If they did too much, they risked, you know, being too rough with
juveniles, for example. And if they did too little, things might get out of hand, which they certainly did, Nancy.
GRACE: Joining me, in addition to Joe Johns, CNN senior correspondent, is Deborah Simmons, assistant news editor, "Washington
Times."
Deborah, what has led us to this point in the last 24 hours? What exactly has happened in the city of Baltimore?
DEBORAH SIMMONS, "WASHINGTON TIMES" (via telephone): There were three things -- hi, Nancy. Thanks for having me on. There were three things
that happened, and in this order. One, the folks at school should have either not let those children out, have them on a quasi-lockdown and
explained to them and to parents what was going on in the streets.
You don`t let hundreds of children at one time out of a school building when you`ve got violent confrontations going on or expected to
happen between police and ne`er-do-wells, number one.
Number two, the mayor, Stephanie Rawlings-Blake, should never have used the word "space." It`s like always giving kids time-out and never
punishing them or disciplining them for something that they`ve done wrong. These...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... I don`t know that I would call them kids that are looting. I mean, there`s video of parents pulling up in their Volvos, letting their
kids out with empty trash bags to go in and loot! There are adults doing this, setting structures on fire, attacking the police.
And I get it. I get why they`re angry. I get it! I`m angry that an unarmed man, Freddie Gray, is dead from his spinal cord being severed in
police custody. I get it. But this is not the answer!
With me, Deborah Simmons, assistant news editor at "Washington Times," and Joe Johns, CNN senior correspondent.
I mean, Deborah, calling these "kids"? There are adults out there, and the stats on who was who has been arrested, those 235 arrests --
they`re not kids!
SIMMONS: Well, 35 of them are, quote, unquote, "juveniles."
GRACE: Right.
SIMMONS: You know what I mean? So they are trying to distinguish at least for the media, at least for the media, the difference between the
adult arrests, 200 or so, and the arrests of the juveniles and the teenagers. But even those 35 would not have been there if the mayor and
the...
GRACE: You`re right. You`re right!
SIMMONS: ... and the school system, which is responsible for those children...
GRACE: You`re absolutely right. And it has turned on its ear.
The sun has just set in the city of Baltimore. Tonight, a curfew is in place. Why? Because the city has exploded in chaos after the death of
a 25-year-old man, Freddie Gray.
The story behind his death is almost too much to believe. But if you see his funeral and you see his casket open, with his mother draping
herself across her son`s body, you will understand the anger. But looting and burning the CVS is certainly not the answer!
[20:10:18]Joining me right now is Mary Koch, attorney for the Freddie Gray family. Mary, did you have any idea the chain of violence that would
be touched off by Freddie`s death, and what has occurred?
MARY KOCH, ATTORNEY FOR GRAY FAMILY: Well, you know, you never know what to expect in these circumstances because these create very trying
times.
But what we hoped for was when the family made their plea for everyone to please to remain calm, to have peaceful protests, to not do anything on
the day that they laid their son to rest, that those pleas of the family would be heeded by the community and that people would honor Freddie`s
memory by keeping that day a day where there were no demonstrations and it was a day where the family was able to mourn and that people could
appreciate the legacy of Freddie.
And that didn`t happen, and so that has been extremely disappointing to the family. And the family is distressed at the violence, and it takes
away from what needs to be done, which is -- and the focus needs to be on the investigation of Freddie`s death.
GRACE: Everyone, we are live in Baltimore and taking your calls.
Everyone on the standby as the curfew in place for tonight trying to curb the violence. To Joe Johns, CNN senior correspondent. How many
National Guard have been called in? How many police are at the ready?
JOHNS: I can`t tell you how many police are at the ready, quite frankly, because there are police from all kinds of jurisdictions here,
state police, local police from all over Maryland, that we`ve heard two or three different numbers on the National Guard. We`ve heard 500. We`ve
heard 1,500. So a lot of National Guard.
And we saw them this morning, some out on the perimeter over in the tourist districts. We`ve seen some, as I said, here at City Hall. And
they`re obviously here in a support role for the police. It doesn`t appear that they`ll be requested to make any arrests. That`s the job of the
police department.
But they`re here and they`re an imposing presence. When you see individuals in military garb carrying military weapons, you understand this
is serious, what`s happening in Baltimore.
GRACE: We have been told that there are 2,000 police, 1,000 National Guard, with 5,000 additional police on the ready to take to the streets.
Back to Deborah Simmons, assistant news editor, "Washington Times." Deborah, what do we know about who is ready to step in, National Guard,
police?
SIMMONS: Yes. Well, we know that city officials and officials with the governor`s office have both said that there are police and fire
officials from as far as away as Delaware and Pennsylvania and as close by as D.C. and a neighboring county to Baltimore, Howard County, that they are
there as well because you need all the first responders, not just police and law enforcement officials, but you need first aid and ambulance crews
and officials and resources, as well.
But I can tell you this, it`s a stark similarity between the law enforcers who are in Baltimore or on their way, as compared to when this
happened 47 years ago, there was rioting following Martin Luther King, Jr.`s, assassination, that cities all across America were burning, and
there were not enough resources to...
GRACE: Deborah, hold on. I want to tell the viewers what they`re seeing. Right now, you`re seeing a structure that was set on fire in
Baltimore.
We are taking your calls, 877-626-2901. Repeat, 877-626-2901.. We are live in Baltimore, the city exploding as a state of emergency is
declared.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:18:43]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A night of destruction and violence in Baltimore after the funeral for Freddie Gray.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Looters and rioters take advantage of lax policing to set fire to and steal from their own communities.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a liquor store that`s on fire. Somebody literally just went in there and torched it, obviously. There`s a baby
coming out from the building next door. They`re evacuating people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: At this hour, the sun has set over the city of Baltimore after 24 hours of chaos, the city exploding in violence, looting, attacks on
police officers following the death of a 25-year-old man in police custody, Freddie Gray, his spine severed while in police custody.
Joining me is Mary Koch the attorney for his family, Joe Johns, CNN senior correspondent, Deborah Simmons, assistant news editor at "The
Washington Times."
But Larry Elder also joining us now. Larry, what I understand happens is this. Police come into what they describe as a high-crime area. They
see Freddie Gray. He makes eye contact with them, and he starts running.
[20:20:11]They pursue him. I`d like to find out why because the city of Baltimore is not telling me why. I don`t know who cop -- which cop did
what when. No information is coming out.
They pursue Freddie Gray, chase him down, throw him to the ground. And they say they find a knife that they describe as single action with a
hinge on it, which is a switchblade.
Look at that shot! Look at that shot, Elder. He can apparently climb into the paddy wagon, but I`m not sure if he climbed in or if he was
dragged in, Larry.
At that point, the next thing I know, Freddie Gray is in leg irons. Now, see, he`s being dragged right there. I`m not seeing him walking,
although I`ve been told he could climb into that paddy wagon.
The next thing I know, his spine is severed. He goes to the hospital and dies. And nobody is telling us anything about who did what where, when
or how, Larry Elder. Thoughts.
LARRY ELDER, LARRYELDER.COM: Well, no one`s telling you yet because the investigation is still ongoing. And when a suspect runs from a police
officer, that can be, depending upon the circumstances, Nancy...
GRACE: Put him up.
ELDER: ... reasonable suspicious to stop and frisk. That apparently is what they did. They found the knife. The knife was apparently
illegal...
GRACE: Put him up!
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: So Larry Elder...
ELDER: ... and he got arrested.
GRACE: When we`re out for our morning jog and we make eye contact with a cop at the red light, they can then chase me down, throw me face
down on the asphalt and drag me to the paddy wagon and put me in leg irons?
ELDER: If this is a high-crime area, Nancy, and the officers believe that you are running...
GRACE: Oh!
ELDER: ... because you saw him, hell, yes. That`s...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: So where rich people live, you don`t do that, but where the poor people live, you do that? Uh-uh. No. That is a problem because if
you`re rich and you live in a calm area, then you can`t -- no, no! Nobody`s going to get thrown on their face. But if you live where Freddie
Gray lived, it`s OK? No!
ELDER: If you`re a rich black person living in a low-crime area and you run, that`s not reasonable grounds, either. If you`re in a high-crime
area and you run, that`s a whole different ballgame, Nancy.
GRACE: Well, says you, but that`s not what these facts say to me.
ELDER: Says the Supreme Court. Says the Supreme Court.
GRACE: What I am telling you is that in this -- I know what the Supreme Court said. Don`t try to school me on the U.S. Supreme Court. But
what I am telling you, that what happened here -- I`m not buying it. And then when they get Freddie Gray, he doesn`t have any drugs on him. He had
not committed a crime. He was not running from a crime scene. They say he had a knife. He had a knife? Half the men in this CNN building probably
have a knife on them.
OK, so you get in the paddy wagon and your spine gets severed, Larry Elder?
ELDER: So Nancy, the time right now is to wait for the investigation. You have a black mayor who is very popular...
GRACE: No!
ELDER: ... you have the top officials of the city and the police department who are black. You have the attorney general who`s black and
the president who`s black, all of whom are looking into this. Let`s wait and find out...
GRACE: Now, just hold on just a moment. Didn`t you see -- let me go to Joe Johns, CNN senior correspondent. Joe Johns, we saw what happened in
Ferguson, all right? Nobody gave any answers. Nobody said, All right, somebody`s going to jail, we`re going to have a grand jury investigate,
nothing. We heard nothing. And everything went berserk, just like it`s happening in Baltimore because nobody is answering up to the people.
And then you`ve got a mayor that says you`ve got to give people space to destroy? What do they think is going to happen?
JOHNS: Yes. Well, we`ve gotten a smidgen of information from the city. What they have said is police did not follow their procedures. They
didn`t follow the procedures on getting him medical attention immediately. They didn`t follow their procedures by getting him an inhaler. He
apparently had asthma and asked for an inhaler. And they didn`t follow procedures by strapping him into the transport van. And that`s very
important...
GRACE: You know what, Joe...
JOHNS: ... because in the city, they`ve had...
GRACE: Joe?
JOHNS: Yes?
GRACE: Everything you`re saying is absolutely correct, and I`m all fine with him getting an inhaler. But I`m wondering how did he get his
spine severed, Joe?
JOHNS: Well, here`s the point. In this city, they`ve had a case back in 2005, where an individual was not properly strapped down into the
transport van. There were allegations that he was given a rough ride, and he ended up getting a severed spine, becoming a paraplegic, and eventually
died.
[20:25:03]It sounds very much similar to the scenario that could have occurred here, a question as to whether he got a rough ride in the van, and
he may have banged into the van and severed his spine somehow.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Vehicles gutted by fire, businesses ransacked and looted. With fires burning in Baltimore, a rioter even went so far as to
cut a hose firefighters were using to put out the flames.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And watch as this driver speeds up, and straight at a police line. More than a dozen officers are injured.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is one of our darkest days as a city.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: The city of Baltimore in chaos, exploding from within following the death of a 25-year-old young man, Freddie Gray, who has his
spine severed while in police custody.
This open casket funeral touched off the beginning of the violence, and it continues -- violence on police officers, looting, starting fires.
When the fire people come to put the fires out, they slash the water hoses.
We are taking your calls, and we are live in Baltimore. Out to the lines. Brad in Florida. Hi, Brad. What`s your question?
[20:30:00]
CALLER: Yes, I have two comments about this here. No. 1, I believe that we are becoming a police country, and No. 2, you said most of these
people were young adults, and that`s because of (inaudible) today. We have taken (inaudible) corrupt generation now. This point that they are taking
over our country now. Our governments have not done anything about it, our city counselors don`t do nothing about it or anything.
GRACE: I believe what you`re saying is we`re in the midst of a police state, and we are reaping what we have sown with an entire generation.
Deborah Simmons, assistant news director, editor at Washington Times. Joe Johns, CNN senior correspondent, both with us. Joe Johns, that`s a
huge, big social issue about reaping what we`ve sown with the current generation. I`m more concerned right now about violence breaking out
before that curfew can demand a lockdown. The curfew starts at 10:00, correct?
JOHNS: It starts at 10:00, and you know, there`s two kinds of anger in this city. There`s anger, certainly, about Freddie Gray, that we have
all talked about. There is also anger in the communities among the people who are trying to uphold the community. They`re angry about the violence
in the street. Angry about stores being looted. The pharmacy on the corner going away because somebody set it on fire. They don`t like that,
and so, you see a lot of ministers, other faith leaders, coming out on the streets, trying to get ahold of this, along with the police. Sometimes,
standing in between the protesters and the police, just to try to take back the streets, if you will, Nancy.
GRACE: With me, Joe Johns, Deborah Simmons. Out to the lines. Angela, North Carolina, hi, what`s your question?
I think I`ve got Angela with me. Justin, let me know when we get her hooked back up. To Deborah Simmons, joining us with the Washington Times,
I`m quoting, I`m directly quoting the mayor, who says we also gave those who wished to destroy space to do that as well. Now, how can that be
misconstrued?
SIMMONS: She had a brain freeze or something was going on. She was even trying to come out within the last 24, 36 hours, and say she was
misquoted. She wasn`t misquoted. That was the exact words she used. Space. Space to do what?
GRACE: Destroy.
SIMMONS: She didn`t ask herself that question, and the looters, and the rioters and the mob gave her yesterday the answer to that, and the --
because in an hour and a half, the curfew would take effect, and these officers have been sworn to peace and safety. The kids, the juvenile
curfew will take effect in about 25, 27 minutes, because it starts at 9:00, and it`s a year-round curfew. It has nothing to do with the Freddie Gray
murder.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:37:30]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Gray was handcuffed. Legs dragging.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Protesters throwing bricks and bottles. Injuring police.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is one of our darkest days as a city.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When Mr. Gray was taken out of that van, he could not talk or breathe.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Outrageous criminals attacked our officers.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (inaudible), but don`t do it like this here, don`t tear up the whole city.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Tonight, the city of Baltimore exploding in chaos following the death of a 25-year-old young man, Freddie Gray, who had the audacity to
run from police. That was his crime. He saw police and he ran. And they chased him down, threw him down, arrested him, they say he had a knife. He
ends up with a severed spinal cord. He`s dead.
Now, we`re hearing from officials that he got a rough ride in the paddy wagon. A rough ride? Ends up in a severed spine? I don`t believe
that. I do not believe that. They`re telling us there`s an investigation going on? Really? An investigation of who? What cops? Who are they?
What part did they play? Who was driving the paddy wagon and gave Freddie Gray a rough ride? We are taking your calls, out to Angelo, North
Carolina. Hi, Angelo. Question?
CALLER: Yes, Nancy. Can you hear me?
GRACE: Yes.
CALLER: You know, I see the story about Freddie Gray, and of course you know, we know of Mike Brown in Ferguson, and I hear you scream and say
how you know, the people are rioting and looting, how that is not the answer. So, my question is what is the answer?
GRACE: I think the answer, Angelo, is for us to know the truth. To find out what police officer threw him down. It was said that, Stacy
Newman, wasn`t it said that people watching the tape down said they had him in the shape of a pretzel?
[20:40:00]
NEWMAN: That`s right, they had him bent like a pretzel, and even a witness said he looks like origami. Another witness said his legs look
broken, and we`re screaming, don`t drag him like that. So, I think these witnesses will be called in in this investigation.
GRACE: With me, unleash the lawyers. Darryl Parks, Alex Sanchez, Bradford Cohen. Darrell Parks, I mean, for all the mothers and fathers out
there tonight, I think of my son. Who`s big, big for his age. He`s almost as tall as me. He`s 7. And I think of somebody throwing him down and a
bunch of people jumping on him and twisting him into a pretzel and severing his spine? I -- that is not the truth, and you know, Angelo in North
Carolina is right. Looting, okay, yes, it`s not the answer. The answer is the truth. Getting the truth. And prosecuting the people responsible for
this.
PARKS: Nancy, without question, without question, I think that this was, it looks clear to be to be a takedown injury, and I`ve seen this type
of case before, when you have two or more people taking someone down. The force to the cervical spine causes injury. In the case I had, it was also
a cervical injury where the person was a quadriplegic. So we`ve seen this type of injury before. It`s consistent with a takedown injury. But I
think this, though.
GRACE: Go ahead.
PARKS: Without question, the city of Baltimore, these people want answers. I don`t think they`re going to wait too long to get answers. And
they`ve planned to make some announcement on Friday. It will be--
GRACE: Friday, the whole city will be burned up before Friday. Dr. William Morrone, before I get back to the other lawyers, Sanchez and Cohen,
Dr. Morrone, forensic pathologist, medical examiner, explain to me how a rough ride, in a paddy wagon, when you`re in the back, what is is it his
fault he didn`t have on a seat belt? Is that what they`re saying? You sever a spine? That is a lie.
MORRONE: Most of the damage was probably done in takedown, not in the van, and what you want to see is his neck went through a whiplash motion,
and that could be at any time equal to about 25 to 30 miles an hour, either in the van or when he was at takedown.
GRACE: Are you actually telling me that you can sever your spine from a rough ride? There wasn`t a crash. There wasn`t a wreck.
MORRONE: The damage from the takedown made the spine unstable, and that`s what caused the severing, because he should have been on a board and
immobilized with proper medical treatment. And instead, he was put in the van without proper medical treatment. His damage was not recognized at the
scene. He should have been immobilized. And the head weighs about 15 pounds, and an action of about 30 miles an hour, that`s equivalent to one
pound moving 44 feet in a second. That`s a tremendous amount of force.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:47:40]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We ask you to wrap your hands around the Gray family.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is unbelievable. There is nobody here. There`s no fire department responding.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: The curfew soon to be in place in about an hour. Night has ascended on Baltimore after the city exploded following the death of
Freddie Gray. An unarmed man, a 25-year-old man taken into police custody, ended up dead from a severed spine.
Darryl Parks, Alex Sanchez, Bradford Cohen with us. Alex, what`s the defense for the police that had him in the paddy wagon and he ends up dead
from a severed spine?
SANCHEZ: First of all, Nancy, a lot of people seem to be emphasizing the wrongful arrest aspect of this case. Say for argument`s sake, the
police did not have a right to arrest him.
GRACE: That`s not what I asked you.
SANCHEZ: That`s different from whether or not police committed felonious assault. What if he had a preexisting injury? What if he had
some congenital defect there?
GRACE: He was running. What existing injury?
SANCHEZ: And you know, we`re going to need to see what the medical examiner report has to say. Was there a stab wound? Was there bruising
there? Does it like like he was hit with a truncheon there? We don`t know the answers to that. I want the answers to that.
GRACE: Bradford Cohen, agree or disagree?
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: And I understand, Bradford, that one of the police officers, one of the six names we`ve gotten so far, has already lawyered up and is
already refusing to give a statement about what happened. That doesn`t bode well.
COHEN: Well, the fact that I love when people say because they lawyered up, they have something to hide, or it doesn`t bode well. Yet,
the city of Baltimore burning down to the ground, I would wager to guess these men, these six officers, their lives are probably in danger if they
walk out in the streets.
GRACE: Wait a minute. Why do you think it`s burning down, Bradford Cohen? Because an unarmed man --
COHEN: Why do I think it`s burning down? Because people are taking advantage of the system.
GRACE: -- has a severed spine. I am not condoning--
COHEN: Justice is not found at the bottom of a stolen Dorito bag. The fact that Baltimore is burning down separate from whether or not there
was an injustice, those are two separate things.
GRACE: I happen to agree with you on that, Bradford.
[20:50:00
GRACE: And I want you to look at this. At this mother, Toya Graham (ph). Take a look at what she did.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: What you are seeing is Toya Graham who recognizes her son with a mask over his face, a ski mask, out joining the protest, joining the
violence. Bradford Cohen, so correctly describes as being unrelated to Gray`s death. And she tells him after hitting him upside the head to get
his framework home. So he is not the next Freddie Gray.
Back to Darryl Parks. You know, Cohen is right. Looting and rioting and attacking police is not going to get the answer. But I understand the
anger.
PARKS: Without question. The people are very angry. They`re angry about this situation and many other things. But I agree. Doing the things
that they`re doing and being shoplifters, robbing, stealing, arsonists is not the answer. So no one condones that type of behavior.
GRACE: Dr. Ish Major, psychiatrist, author of "Little White Lies." Okay, explain to me why a cop or anyone would feel that they are allowed or
entitled to inflict that kind of violence on someone.
MAJOR: You know, Nancy, unfortunately, we`ve got a history in this country of white officers using excessive force towards black men. And it
comes from a lack of trust and a lack of respect in that situation. Neither side can trust what the other one is going to do. And so they both
overreact. And that excessive force is the result of that overreaction.
GRACE: You know, back to you, Dr. Morrone. Explain to me again how driving in the back of the van can end up with a severed spine. And Dr.
Morrone, I know that you have watched the video of him being dragged to the paddy wagon.
MORRONE: Yes.
GRACE: Go ahead.
MORRONE: In the initial damage, the result is two parts. The takedown injury destabilizes the spine originally. It`s bent and unstable.
And then up to speeds of 30 miles an hour, a whiplash injury to the head, unrestrained. He was unrestrained 30 miles an hour. 15-pound head equals
the same force as one pound going 44 feet in a second. And that`s enough.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: And I believe a severed spine came from riding in the back of a police van. I don`t believe that. The man`s in leg irons.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:57:10]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They ain`t protecting nobody and serving nobody.
How many times I`m going to smack you before you smack me back?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Rioting, looting, attacking police officers. The violence touched off after the death of an unarmed man, 25-year-old Freddie Gray.
Totally out of control. None of this is going to help get justice, to find out what happened. As a matter of fact, to Matthew Horace, senior VP, FJC
Security. When the mayor herself tells police to give the looters space to destroy, her words, not mine. What is the police force supposed to do with
that?
HORACE: You know, Nancy, even if we give the mayor the benefit of the doubt and say it was a Freudian slip. If you look at the actions of the
police officers, their actions sort of validate what she in fact is saying. And oftentimes, remember, Nancy, police chiefs report to mayors. And we
can wonder all day long why the officers didn`t respond, why they stood idly by watching looting, burning, arson and other crimes.
GRACE: That`s what they`ve been told to do. Clearly. Darryl Parks, Alex Sanchez, Bradford Cohen, Larry Elder, radio talk show host. Larry, I
think the cops have been told to stand there.
ELDER: I think they were. And the problem, Nancy, you mentioned this woman that pulled her son out of that store. The problem is the absence of
responsible black fathers. 75 percent of black kids are born without fathers. And President Obama said that a kid without a dad is 20 times
more likely to go to jail. That`s the problem in the inner city. Far bigger problem than the presence of racist cops.
GRACE: You go, Toya (ph)! You get your son home right now. Uh-huh. And you notice, he is doing what his mother said, um-hmm, he is
embarrassed. But he is getting himself home, where he needs to be, not out looting the CVS. She is going to follow him home. Thank you, Toya, for
doing what you need to do to get your son safe.
Another thing, Larry Elder, I don`t know anything about the cops that did this to Gray. I don`t know if they`re white or they`re black. We`re
not getting a lot of information. But I do know this, he didn`t sever his spine on his own. And we want answers.
ELDER: Nancy --
GRACE: Hold on. Larry, I`m being told in my ear I have got to go to American hero. Army Corporal Casey Mellen, 21, Huachuca (ph) City,
Arizona. Bronze Star, Purple Heart, left college to enlist. Loved fishing with his father and playing Xbox. Parents Regine and Casey, sister
Michelle, widow Amber. Casey Mellen, American hero.
Drew up next. God bless Baltimore tonight. I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, good night, friend.
END
