Return to Transcripts main page
Nancy Grace
Mistress Extorts Married Doctor?; Missing Five-Year-Old Boy in Nebraska; Parents Bribe Kids with Cocaine. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired May 07, 2015 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. To Florida. It was supposed to and secret. That`s why they used the adultery Web site Ashleymadison.com.
But when a married doctor meets up with his dream girl at a local hotel for sex, it all goes sideways. Just as the doctor`s leaving the hotel, he gets
the first text asking if they can meet again. When he says no, that`s when he says the extortion begins, that he`s got to pay off $7,000 of her credit
card debt or she`ll tell his wife.
Listen, Doctor, you danced to the music, now it`s time to pay the fiddler. But as for the other woman, Debbie Lewis, how does felony extortion sound?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: An employee with the Broward County sheriff`s office met Dr. (DELETED) in Boca Raton through an adult Web site,
Ashleymadison.com. The two had an affair. When he told O`Flaherty it was over, she threatened him, saying that she would expose the affair if he
didn`t pay up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That video from Ashleymadison.com and YouTube.
And live, Nebraska, Amber Alert, the desperate search for a 5-year-old little boy, Josue, and as we go to air, police putting together pieces of
the puzzle. We believe 5-year-old Josue`s little brother, Angel, found crying alone in a dumpster, wearing nothing but a soiled diaper. Now
reports a female body has been discovered. Is it the boy`s mother? We are standing by at the Lavintsa (ph), Nebraska, morgue waiting for answers.
But the question remains, where is 5-year-old Josue?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Amber Alert! Police need your help in tracking down a 5-year-old Nebraska boy. He`s gone missing in his mother`s 2000 silver
Jeep Cherokee Laredo and hasn`t been seen since. Authorities on the lookout for the vehicle!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And live, Largo, Florida, where a couple, Joey and Chad Mudd (ph), accused of bribing their two little girls with cocaine and pot to do chores
and make A`s in school.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... accused of smoking marijuana and doing lines of cocaine with his daughters, ages 13 and 15, as well as one of their
boyfriends, the girl`s mother accused of smoking pot with their daughters. Why?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: According to Joey, that it was an incentive to the children.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, imagine a baby with its mommy hunted as they run through the forest to escape a killer, not able to run fast enough, then
slaughtered. Well, that`s what happens every day to these beautiful creatures. Why? And how can this barbaric savagery be stopped?
Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. It was all supposed to be a secret. That`s why they used the adultery Web site Ashleymadison.com. But when a married doctor
meets up with his dream girl at a local hotel for sex, the whole thing goes sideways. Just as the doctor is leaving the hotel, he gets the very first
text asking when he can meet again. He says no.
That`s when he says the extortion began. She demands that he pay off $7,000 of her credit card debt or she will tell his wife. Listen, Doctor,
you danced to the music, now it`s time to pay the fiddler.
But as for the dream girl? Her on-line handle is Discrete Fun (ph). Her real name is Debbie Lewis. How does felony extortion charges sound to you,
"Discrete Fun"?
Let`s go straight out to Rafael Olmeda with the "Sun-Sentinel." Rafael, thank you for being with us from "The Sun-Sentinel." So this doctor -- and
we don`t have any reason to believe he`s ever cheated before, or certainly not since -- he`s a married father of four. And for some reason, he goes
on Ashleymadison.com and decides to hook up with a woman who calls herself Discrete Fun.
What happens then?
RAFAEL OLMEDA, "SUN-SENTINEL" (via telephone): Well, according to the doctor, he met up with the woman at a Starbucks. They got to know each
other a little bit. It was a very brief meeting, but it was one of those meetings that just had the two of them say, Do we want to do this? And the
answer is yes.
So a day or two later, they meet up at a hotel in Boca Raton...
GRACE: OK, Rafael, I mean, not to suggest that you`re naive, but why do you think married people go on Ashleymadison.com? The whole point of that
Web site, which sounds like a girl`s school or something, Ashleymadison.com, is so married people can hook up and have sex. That`s
what it`s all about, right?
[20:05:17]OLMEDA: Oh, sure. I mean, that was -- no question that that was the intention of signing up on that Web site in the first place. But you
could sign up, talk to somebody and then meet them and think, I don`t want to sleep with this person.
So they met up pat the Starbucks to determine, Do we have anything that -- do we want to really go through with this? So they decide yes, and a day
or two later, they`re at a hotel room in Boca Raton and consummating their deal.
GRACE: OK, that`s a nice way of saying a sex tryst with a woman. Her name is Debbie O`Flaherty Lewis. And not only is she on line on
Ashleymadison.com with the love handle "Discrete Fun," turned out not to be so discrete, right, Rafael Olmeda -- Rafael joining us from the "Sun-
Sentinel" -- because he hadn`t even left the hotel before he gets his first text, am I right?
OLMEDA: I believe he had left. I`m not sure exactly how much time passed, but his testimony was that he had left, and then she sends her text
message, talking about the next time they get together. And he says to her -- his response was -- I don`t think we should see each other for a while.
GRACE: Well, hold on, hold on, hold on. He had plenty of time to feel bad about cheating on his wife and his four children as he was on line looking
through profiles, as he met the woman at Starbucks. He had plenty of time to back out. So now feeling guilty is kind of a day late and a dollar
short.
But what he didn`t figure on is that Debbie O`Flaherty Lewis works for the Broward County sheriff`s office and can key into all of his information.
Once she knows his true name, she can get his DOB, his home address, his family`s name. She can get his children`s DOBs and their names, where he
works, the whole shebang, Rafael!
So what happens then?
OLMEDA: Well, he says that they did not use their real names when they met. They did not use their real names when they hooked up. So when he
said he didn`t want to see her again, the text messages start coming to him with his real name, which he had not given her, with his wife`s name...
GRACE: So how did she do that? How did she manage to get...
OLMEDA: I`m sorry?
GRACE: Rafael Olmeda, how did she get his real information, through his phone number that he was texting?
OLMEDA: That would presumably be the way that she could manage to find that kind of information. Your cell phone number is not hard to trace back
to you.
GRACE: Right.
OLMEDA: And once she has that, she was able to find out where he lived. She sent text messages with his kids -- with his daughter`s name and with
their birth dates, with his home address...
GRACE: Whoa!
OLMEDA: ... his home phone number.
GRACE: Whoa! Whoa, wait a minute!
OLMEDA: He knew right away he was in trouble.
GRACE: Yes, he`s in deep trouble! This has suddenly gone from -- I begged her not to tell. I was basically blubbering. It was pathetic, the doctor
says. It goes on and on. The woman first starting off demanding he pay her $7,000 for starters just to pay off her credit card debt.
Now, let me ask you this, Rafael Olmeda with the "Sun-Sentinel." How do we -- was she already working with Broward County sheriff?
OLMEDA: She had been working with the sheriff`s office for 18 years. She was a supervisor in the child protection unit. So she certainly had access
to more information than your average person...
GRACE: Wow!
OLMEDA: ... although I don`t know if she used -- you know, what resources she used. The testimony was just that she used Google and Yahoo! and
things like that, so I don`t know if she...
GRACE: Well, there she is.
OLMEDA: ... had access to (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: We`re showing her picture right there. There you are seeing Debbie O`Flaherty Lewis. This is the woman the doctor claims extorted him for at
least $7,000.
To Pat Lalama, investigative reporter. So it started off as probably an hour sex tryst at a local hotel, turns into suddenly, this woman knows your
name. It`s funny how people -- you can have sex with them, but you don`t give them your real name. OK, I guess you don`t know them well enough.
So I guess she uses his cell phone -- and she works at the sheriff`s office, for Pete`s sake. She suddenly knows his real name, his home
address. Let`s see his home, Justin. She knows about his wife and she knows his four children and their names.
OK, that is starting to get very creepy, Pat Lalama.
[20:10:02]PAT LALAMA, INVESTIGATION JOURNALIST: Well, yes. Here`s the emergency room doctor who had an emergency. He wanted to have some
discrete, anonymous sex. He`s thinking he`s going in for just a quickie -- hate to use the expression. He thinks it`s all over because there is no
exchange of information.
Then she hits him. She`s got the inside track on getting this kind of information. Now she can go after him. His life -- one night or one hour
turns into a lifetime of grief for him. So imagine what happens to him. He has to go to the cops. And then they set up a sting and they get her.
GRACE: OK, we were talking about the hotel. Let me ask you this, Pat Lalama. How did he pay? Did he use a credit card? How did she get all
his information?
LALAMA: How did she get his personal information?
GRACE: Yes. Did he use his credit card?
LALAMA: We can only surmise that while they`re in the hotel room, she`s got some sneaky way of figuring out his identity. Otherwise, how else does
she do it, unless she`s got some sort of inside track on line to be able to do it? But it seems to me it`s an old trick that maybe even prostitutes
use is getting inside, getting the guy`s information, then going after him and scaring the bejesus out of him.
GRACE: Joining me right now is a special guest, Noel Biderman. He is the CEO and spokesperson of Ashleymadison.com. Noel Biderman, thank you for
being with us.
NOEL BIDERMAN, CEO, ASHLEYMADISON.COM (via telephone): Thank you for having me, Nancy.
GRACE: Mr. Biderman, I know we all have our own free will, but your Web site is set up specifically to entice married people to commit adultery, is
it not?
BIDERMAN: It is. But they don`t need much enticement. You know, they tend to do it...
GRACE: Whoa! Whoa, whoa! Those first two words? Those first two words were what, "It is"?
BIDERMAN: Yes, it`s a married dating service. It`s for people already in relationships looking to pursue something on the side. There`s no denying
that.
GRACE: OK. You don`t have a problem with the fact that you are facilitating the break-up of marriages?
BIDERMAN: No, because they`re not breaking up marriages. People have affairs that want to stay married. This gentleman wanted to stay married.
You know, he was choosing to supplement his sex life. But he wasn`t seeking a divorce...
GRACE: Wa-wa! Wa-wa!
BIDERMAN: ... he wasn`t looking at separation...
GRACE: He was choosing to supplement his sex life? Is that what you call it?
BIDERMAN: That`s what an affair is.
GRACE: Supplementing his -- it sounds like you`re taking a vitamin. It sounds like you`re taking a vitamin supplement. I mean, my question is...
BIDERMAN: That`s a good analogy. It is a bit of a vitamin for your marriage. It is a way to stay married, is to have an affair on the side,
yes.
GRACE: OK. Well, the whole point of marriage, conventional marriage, is that you don`t have affairs, that you remain faithful. So my question...
BIDERMAN: No, I don`t think that`s the whole point. The whole point is about raising children and sharing economics and values and extended
family. There`s a lot more to it than just sex and monogamy.
GRACE: Really?
BIDERMAN: Yes.
GRACE: I think that all the things you mentioned are part of it, as well as sex and monogamy. And I think that for most women you ask, they will
agree with me.
But my question -- back to you, Mr. Biderman. And I mean no offense, but my question is, how do you feel about -- you personally and your Web site,
which is now an empire, Ashleymadison.com -- how do you feel about the fact that you have created a tool to destroy marriages like this doctor`s? Yes,
he did it on his own, but you helped him!
BIDERMAN: No. I think there`s an individual here who committed a crime, maybe two crimes, extortion, for one for sure, and trying to probably
illegally access, you know, Broward County sheriff`s database for her own personal needs. You know, our role in this...
GRACE: But what about you, Noel?
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: What about you? I mean, that`s just what Satan says, Hey, they`d have done it on their own. I was just helping them.
BIDERMAN: Do you really believe that affairs weren`t happening before Ashleymadison? Of course (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: No, I don`t. I do believe that they were.
BIDERMAN: OK, so...
GRACE: But I think you`re helping.
BIDERMAN: We were helping people...
GRACE: You`re breaking up marriages!
BIDERMAN: There`s less chance of being discovered on Ashleymadison than in an affair in the workplace or on a single dating site...
GRACE: Yes, right! They really kept this one a secret! Nobody found out!
BIDERMAN: Well, you know, sometimes you choose to have an affair with another married person, which also reduces your risk profile. Some of our
members meet with single people, and that risk profile changes then.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:18:18]UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: According to detectives, O`Flaherty, who was also am employee with the Broward County sheriff`s office, met Dr.
(DELETED) in adult Web site Ashleymadison.com.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Office romance too risky? You should have used Ashleymadison.com.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Now, according to Mr. Noel Biderman, the CEO and spokesperson of Ashleymadison.com, which is facilitating adultery and is now an empire
making money off the misery of marriages breaking up -- he says this is just a supplement to marriage. OK!
I want to go back to Rafael Olmeda with the "Sun-Sentinel." So let me ask you this, Rafael. How did this all come to light? It`s my understanding
the doctor, who`s a married doctor, family of four children -- what happened next? Did he meet up with the woman? What happened when he
refused to pay her credit card $7,000? And that`s the tip of the iceberg. That was just the beginning.
OLMEDA: Well, we don`t know that it was just the beginning. It was -- the way it was portrayed, he thought that that would be the end of it. But how
did -- I need you to repeat your question. He -- he...
GRACE: What happened when he told her no?
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Yes, what happened when he told her no, he was not going to pay her $7,000 credit card bill?
OLMEDA: Well, he didn`t say no. He was trying to do it. He was trying to figure out ways to get her her money. She gave him a bank account number
with no name attached, and the bank wouldn`t accept the deposit that he was trying to make because there was no name attached to it. What ended up
happening was he did call authorities and...
[20:20:05]GRACE: Well, wait a minute! Wa-wa-wa-wa-wa-wait, wa-wait! I don`t want to miss a single thing. Rafael Olmeda with us from the "Sun-
Sentinel."
So Pat Lalama, he never says, No, I won`t pay it because he`s so afraid? I mean, he says he was, quote, "blubbering," begging her not to tell his
wife, ruin his medical practice. They`d go to his church or synagogue, bust him. So what -- I don`t know understand what happened between that
and where we are today.
LALAMA: OK. So it seems in the beginning, he`s trying to pay her off, essentially, any way he can. And as your other guest said with the bank
account, the bank doesn`t receive it. But then he gets desperate...
GRACE: Well, wait a minute! I don`t -- Pat, you said he cannot pay it. You mean that the bank wouldn`t let him do it with no names attached,
right?
LALAMA: Right. They turned it down. So he...
GRACE: Because I see that house...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Did you see that house? It`s gorgeous...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... little sports car parked out front.
LALAMA: Absolutely. Yes. But so he`s trying to -- see, now he`s dug himself -- I mean, when you swim in the cesspool of infidelity, something`s
going to start to stink. So this starts to stink. And now he`s got to try to dig his way -- How am I going to get out of this?
So he`s trying to find a circuitous route to pay her off. The bank`s not accepting the money. I think he finally gets to a level of abject
desperation. Now he`s scared because she`s talking about his kids. He knows now, Oh, my gosh, the jig is up. Now I have no choice but to go to
the cops. They give him some unmarked money, and then the sting occurs.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:25:36]UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Debbie O`Flaherty Lewis met Dr. (DELETED) through an adult Web site, Ashleymadison.com.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She faces extortion charges.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: You know, that`s from Ashleymadison.com on YouTube, and they make it look like an affair. It`s like a big party. You know, it looks like
you`re going on a cruise or you`re at a New Year`s Eve party or something. They don`t mention the divorce, the division of assets, the fight over the
children. Can you imagine? Can you imagine?
Unleash the lawyers, Parag Shah and Gary Casimir. Parag Shah, can you imagine telling me that I can only see my children, the twins, on the
weekends?
PARAG SHAH, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No, obviously, I can`t imagine that.
GRACE: Do you know what hell would break loose? But that`s what happens. Can you imagine telling your children, You can only see Daddy on Saturday
from 2:00 to 4:00 at McDonald`s? Because that`s what happens, Mr. Ashley Madison, when all hell breaks loose after an affair!
So let`s talk about extortion. And I`ll get back to Mr. Biderman. All right, Parag Shah, she`s totally busted. So extortion, seven grand, and
that was probably the tip of the iceberg. Let`s hear your defense.
SHAH: You haven`t shown me a text that says, If you pay my bills I`m going to tell your family. (sic) I don`t trust this guy. I guarantee you, when
he was in the sheets, the first thing that came out of his mouth -- I`m a doctor, I can take care of you, I`m going to pay your bills. And then when
he woke up, he was, like, Why did I tell her all that, and he created this whole scheme...
GRACE: You know what`s a little crazy?
SHAH: ... to entrap her and to extort...
GRACE: The way that rolled off your tongue, like maybe you had said that before.
SHAH: No proof.
GRACE: OK, Casimir, jump in.
GARY CASIMIR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Absolutely. The love doctor cannot now claim clean hands, Oh, my God, I was blubbering like an idiot. He couldn`t
find a way...
GRACE: What about the sting?
CASIMIR: ... to pay $7,000...
GRACE: I think you two are forgetting the fact that the cops did a sting. OK, Pat Lalama, tell me about the sting.
LALAMA: All right. So he finally in desperation goes to the cops. They give him $7,000 in marked bills. He meets with the woman. And in fact,
one of her co-workers testified that the original plan was to meet at her house. Can my buddy drop off something at your house? So she`s bringing
someone else into it, allegedly. So then when he finally meets with her, when the money`s exchanged, they make the arrest. Good-bye, Ms. Lewis.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Casimir and Shah -- that you don`t believe the doctor, that all this is BS, that he made it up? Well, police did a sting
with the $7,000 with marked money and totally busted her. She works for the sheriff`s department, Parag Shah. So what`s your defense for her?
SHAH: Money that he already had promised her. There`s no extortion! You haven`t shown me any proof that she was extorting him!
GRACE: You know, you`re amazing.
SHAH: He probably told her that he was going to pay her, and he paid her.
GRACE: You know...
CASIMIR: You need a little more than just the doctor`s word here. Can the doctor be trusted? This is a guy that just ruined his entire family, his
medical practice for a little time in the sack, and he`s going to have more credibility than her? I think he`s going to have to do a little more.
SHAH: I can`t wait to cross-examine that guy.
GRACE: You know what? (INAUDIBLE) actually, not that I believe either one of you, but actually, that`s an excellent defense on her behalf.
I want to go back to Noel Biderman, the CEO and spokesperson of the adultery Web site Ashleymadison.com. Mr. Biderman, I know your theory is
that adultery is, what did you say, a marriage supplement? But when you see the aftermath, the wake of pain that it causes -- and you`re right
there egging it on with your Web site. I mean, what is your response?
BIDERMAN: I think you`re going to have a real challenge explaining that theory that, you know, you just have to break up and leave to the potential
next president of the United States, whose husband had a very public affair, seems to have recovered and moved on from it, and by all accounts,
is raising a pretty dramatic (ph) family. So it doesn`t always work that way, Nancy. I know you`d like to believe that. That is not always the
outcome. People sometimes understand their role in non-monogamous behavior, as well.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:33:52] GRACE: Live in Nebraska. Amber alert and the desperate search for a five-year-old little boy Josue. As we go to air right now, police
are trying to put together pieces of the puzzle. But at this hour we believe five-year-old Josue`s little brother, Angel, found crying, alone in
a dumpster, he`s just 11 months old wearing nothing but a soiled diaper. We`re now getting reports a female body has been discovered. Is it the
boy`s mother? We are standing by at the La Vista, Nebraska morgue as we are waiting for answers tonight. But the question is still out there,
where is five-year-old Josue?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFED MALE: Amber alert. Police need your help in tracking down a 5-year-old Nebraska boy. He`s gone missing in his mother`s 2000 silver
Jeep Cherokee Laredo and hasn`t been seen since. Authorities on the lookout for the vehicle. But breaking news - police find the five-year-
old`s 11-month-old brother in a dumpster. Alive!
What happened? Police need your help tonight!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Everyone, right now we are on the search for 5-year-old Josue. Add in the amber alert, the fact that we believe his little brother, Angel, is
found wearing nothing but a dirty diaper. Look at this baby! It is a miracle the baby has been found alive.
Angel found in a dumpster wearing nothing but a dirty diaper. Now we`re getting reports that a female, an adult female body has been found and
piecing together the puzzle, is this the boy`s mother? This suggests to me, if it is the boy`s mother, that she was murdered to get five-year-old
Josue. Tonight where is the 5-year-old boy? Straight out to Hunter Arterburn, manager of Big Apple News Radio. Hunter, thank you for being
with us. The story is developing quickly. Everybody I want to give you the tip line as quickly as I can. But give me the latest, what can you
tell me, Hunter?
HUNTER ARTEBURN, OPERATIONS MANAGER, BIG APPLE NEWSRADIO: I tell you what, Nancy, this has really just developed. It was strange, like you mentioned,
that Josue`s sibling was found in a dumpster. And then we really didn`t know exactly what that was all about. All of a sudden the pieces came
together, the Amber alert was issued.
Now the latest that we have here is that Chris Rivera Avelar (ph), the daycare`s owner`s son said today that his mother called Josue`s father
after seeing a TV report about Angel being found in the trash container. The father was in tears when he came to the daycare center on Wednesday
night adding that the man he said was going to actually get his son. So he came and got his son.
Now detectives have questioned the father of Josue and his sibling and the Nebraska State Patrol amber alert says the boy has short black hair and was
last seen wearing a grey shirt and grey sweatpants.
GRACE: A grey shirt, grey sweatpants. What you`re telling me, makes it sound to me like the biological father is not responsible for this. If he
broke out into tears when he found out that the 11-month-old Angel is in a dumpster wearing a soiled diaper and he has gone immediately to police?
That doesn`t sound like the actions of someone responsible.
A 5-year-old boy is missing. Put yourself just for the moment in the shoes of the boy`s parents. One child has been found thrown in a dumpster in a
diaper. The other one, a 5-year-old boy, is gone. A female body has been found. Is it the mother? That excludes her from being the perpetrator.
It clearly - I don`t know any more details but we are told it clearly was not a suicide.
To Marc Klaas, joining us, in addition to Hunter Arteburn, there in Falls City, Marc Klass, president and founder of Klaas Kids Foundation. Marc,
weigh in, what do we do now? One child in the dumpster has been saved, the 5-year-old is missing.
MARC KLASS, PRESIDNET AND FOUNDER OF KLASS KIDS FOUNDATION: Then the 5- year-old may very well have been a witness to the murder of the mother if in fact this turns out to be the mother. That`s the difference between the
toddler and the 5-year-old. Toddlers are not able to testify in court. The last thing that the killer wants is a witness that`s going to be able
to testify against them.
This is troubling, Nancy. There is a major highway heading north and south out of Omaha. There is a major highway heading east and west out of Omaha.
It was 24 hours from the time the mother was last heard from until the Amber alert was issued so this child could be absolutely anywhere. People
have to be on the lookout for the Silver Jeep that is in question here.
GRACE: Let`s talk about the Silver Jeep. Hunter Arteburn joining us from Big Apple News. I understand it is a silver 2000 Jeep Cherokee Laredo
plate number - Nebraska plate - S, sally, R, Ruth, H, happy 941. SRH941 Nebraska tag.
What do we know about that Jeep Cherokee, Hunter?
ARTERBURN: You`re absolutely right, Nancy, a silver Jeep Cherokee Laredo, you nailed it right on the head with that license plate number. Again,
just to repeat, SRH941. The vehicle is actually registered to Josue`s mother. It is actually registered to his mother. That`s what we know
about this Jeep right now, Nancy, again that Silver Jeep and be looking out for this one.
The very interesting factor that is registered to Josue`s mother who, of course, as you mentioned, her body possibly found.
[20:40:04]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Live, Largo, Florida where Joey and Chad Mudd, accused of bribing their two little girls with cocaine and pot. Why? As incentive to get the
girls to do chores at home and make "As" in school.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFED MALE: She was accused of smoking pot with her daughters, smoking marijuana and doing lines of cocaine with their daughters.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If the children were going to school and doing household chores and such, that was the incentive to allowing them to smoke
marijuana.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: So bottom line, Meredyth Censullo, investigative reporter, joining us there in Tampa. Meredith, the parents give the girls cocaine and pot in
order to get them to do chores, to clean up the house and make good grades?
MEREDYTH CENSULLO, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Yes, I don`t know about you. But when I was a kid we were rewarded with ice cream, not heavy duty drugs.
But that`s what this couple is accused of doing. The mother, Joey, accused of smoking pot with her teenage girls, 13 and 14, at the time, at least
five times since November, and even worse, the dad accused of supplying his daughters as well as another young man, only 17 years old, with two lines
of cocaine and encouraging them to do the coke in his own truck while he was at work.
[20:45:00] GRACE: I have two lawyers - Parag Shah, Gary Kasimir, also with me out of D.C., Brad Lamb, addiction specialist and founder of Breathe Life
Healing Center, Cristen Smith with us, the spokesperson for the Pinellas County Sheriff`s Office. To all of you, welcome.
OK. Parag Shah, the two parents, this married couple, bribing their children? Their two little girls, Parog, to clean the house for them so
they wouldn`t have to by giving them coke?
PARAG SHAH: Well, you can`t convict someone simply because they say, I used weed a week ago or whenever.
GRACE: Cocaine. Cocaine.
SHAH: Still. It doesn`t matter what the drug is. You need evidence. Lab tests. A witness to say that we saw it. In this case the only evidence
will be the daughters. I doubt the daughters are going to testify against their own parents.
GRACE: You know, that`s very interesting. Meredyth Censullo, what is the evidence against the parents other than daughters saying so?
CENSULLO: Well, post-Miranda rights, Joey - that`s the mom -- she actually did admit to smoking the pot with the girls. So there`s that.
And then when Chad was arrested, there was actually cocaine residue found in his wallet so he was actually arrested and charged with possession of
cocaine.
GRACE: What is that picture of him holding two bottles of champagne?
Brad Lamb, addiction specialist, Breathe Life Healing Center founder. Brad, they are using pot and cocaine as a bargaining tool? To get the
children to clean the house and make straight "As"?
BRAD LAMB, ADDICTION SPECIALIST: And you may have noticed, that as I just did, believe it or not, that their last name is Mudd. Look, these parents
are no different than a lot of parents across the country who introduce their kids to drugs or alcohol for the first time.
It is really common. It`s more common than you know. It is something we deal with at Breathe Life Healing Center a lot where the client isn`t just
the person that they call us about. It is the whole family coming from -
GRACE: We`re talking about cocaine and pot.
LAMB: I know.
GRACE: I never heard of it being used to try to get your children to clean the house, take out the trash.
LAMB: But you know the story of Mackenzie Phillips has been very open about her story, her father introduced her to cocaine and heroin. And
that`s - that`s a big story because he was a music star. But it`s very common. It is something we deal with a lot and focus on family recovery.
GRACE: Kristin Smith joining us from the Pinellas County Sheriff`s office. Kristin, thank you for being with us. What can you tell us? What
are the charges?
CRISTEN SMITH, SPOKESPERSON, PINELLAS CO. SHERIFF`S OFFICE: Joey Mudd was arrested and charged with two counts of child abuse. As Meredyth
mentioned, she did admit to smoking marijuana with the victims at least five times.
Chad Mudd was arrested and charged with six counts of child abuse and one count of possession of a controlled substance because like Meredyth also
mentioned, he was arrested and during his arrest there was white substance that was found in his wallet that did test positive for cocaine.
GRACE: To Dr. Brian Russell, forensic psychologist, weigh in. Why would a parent think it is OK to use cocaine and pot as an incentive to get your
two daughters to do house chores?
BRIAN RUSSELL, PHD., FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Nancy, I don`t buy that she did think that. I think that that is something that`s being concocted
after the fact to try to somehow redeem the behavior. I think probably what we`re seeing here is just what we`re seeing way too much of across
the country, which is parents treating their kids more like friends than as children.
GRACE: You know, Dr. Joye Carter (INAUDIBLE). Dr. Carter, what would cocaine do to a girl, say 11 to 13 years old? What does that do to her
body, a child?
JOYE CARTER: Cocaine speeds up all the activity in the body. Can cause blood pressure problems. Can certainly cause sudden death. Cause erratic
behavior. Outbursts of anger. Just all kinds of uncontrollable things. One never knows what happens when one has these stimulants to their central
nervous system.
GRACE: It`s amazing, this woman looks like a soccer mom. Stacey Newman (ph), what more do we know?
STACEY NEWMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, I can tell you, it looks like the police caught this just in time because this couple has another
daughter who is in preschool.
GRACE: OK. Stacey Newman, thanks so much for that little tidbit. Right now "CNN Heroes."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:50:00] UNIDENTIFED MALE: Street medicine is bringing medical care right to the homeless where they are under the bridges and along the river
banks and abandoned buildings.
Safety net. Anybody home?
Can you make a fist? Does that had hurt?
UNIDENTIFED MALE: I`ve been walking the streets of Pittsburgh for 23 years to treat the homeless. When I started, I was actually really shocked how
ill people were on the street. It was like going to a third world country.
There were runaway kids, 85-year-olds, pregnant women, and they all have their own story.
What hurts the most?
UNIDENTIFED MALE: This knee is so swollen.
UNIDENTIFED MALE: Once you get to know the folks out there, I knew that I had to keep going.
Are you doing okay medically?
And now we`ve managed to treat over 10,000 people.
Did they put staples in or stitches?
Infections, diabetes, cancers, the list goes on and on and on.
All right. I`m glad we saw you.
The folks that are willing to come to us, we have a mobile medical van. Then we have drop-in centers. Open up again. We connect with the person.
You have friends. We`ll be there for you. Then we advocate with them to get their insurance, to get housing and care. Wherever they are, they`re
always within our circle of love.
UNIDENTIFED MALE: You did so much for me.
UNIDENTIFED MALE: It really is a wonderful feeling that people on the street are beginning to get a voice in health care. Good, steady. You
have a good heart.
It`s something that we should take pride in when we can actually treat people the way we want to be treated.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And we all remember O.J. Simpson back in - I think it was 1996 when that verdict was delivered. We thought this was going to end
somewhat the same way because of his celebrity, because of his football stardom. There were so many similarities, so much circumstantial evidence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:55:52] GRACE: Imagine a baby with its mommy hunted as they run through the forest to escape a killer, not able to run fast enough, overtaken and
slaughtered. That`s what happens every day to beautiful creatures. Why? And how can this barbaric savagery be stopped?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFED MALE: Not every necklace look nice, but did an elephant suffer a horrible death for it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Killing an intelligent beautiful animal like this (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFED MALE: Thousands of elephants slaughtered every year.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Joining me right now is John Calvelli, EVP of Public Affairs at Wildlife Conservation Society, director of 96 Elephants Campaign. John,
thank you so much for being with us.
JOHN CALVELLI, EVP PUBLIC AFFAIRS, WILDLIFE CONSERVATION SOCIETY: Thank you for having me.
GRACE: You know, I just was reading a couple stories about the slaughter of elephants for ivory in the U.S.. They kill the elephants to get their
tusks. A Minnesota professor was smuggling in ivory and then thousands and thousands of pounds of ivory tusks were destroyed. What`s happening, John?
CALVELLI: First of all, we are now the generation that may see the extinction of elephants. Every day 96 elephants are killed and for one
specific reason, for the creation of beautiful ornaments, yes, but at the same time what we`re doing is we are destroying the species and more
importantly we`re also funding terrorism.
What we`re find is working with many groups in Africa that this species is fundamentally being killed off because the ivory itself is being used to
fund groups like the large resistance army.
Now on many occasions you may say, you know what, I love that piece of ivory but at the end of the day at what cost? The cost of losing this
incredible species. The cost of actually helping to destabilize a continent. And the United States is part of the problem not part of the
solution. At the end of the day we`re one of the largest markets for ivory and right here in the U.S. working with our friends at (INAUDIBLE) we
discovered that over $1.5 million worth of ivory is for sale right now on Craigslist. You can go on the site and you can buy ivory.
Now the bottom line is Craigslist actually says that you cannot sell ivory on their site. Well, we`re trying to make sure that Craigslist is actually
following its own rules.
GRACE: Looking at these photos and this video you see the elephants trying to revive their dead baby. There are other visuals, a dead baby elephant
mourning the death of its mother after she`s killed by a poacher. These are mammals. They understand what`s happening. How do we stop it, John?
CALVELLI: At the end of the day what we have to do is really it`s threefold. Stop the killing, stop the trafficking and stop the demand.
Get armed guards, we need to train these rangers every day - every four days a ranger is killed protecting this species.
GRACE: Everyone go to 96elephants.org and please help us stop this horrible slaughter.
Tonight we remember a special American hero, fallen police officer Brian Moore, 25. Moore gunned down in the line of duty on Saturday from a family
of New York Police officers in his short four-year career protecting and serving his community, awarded two exceptional police service medals. Two
meritorious medals. Remembered as remarkable. Wanted to be a cop since he was a little boy.
He took his entrance exam at just 17. He leaves behind his father Raymond and a loving family. Officer Brian Moore, American hero.
Drew, up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
