Return to Transcripts main page
Nancy Grace
George Zimmerman in Another Shooting Incident. Aired 8-9:00p ET
Aired May 11, 2015 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, North Carolina. When a Raleigh police officer, 44-year-old Matthew Kohr, pulls into the local
Starbucks, he gets the usual free cup of coffee for cops. But when the lid pops off, he claims the cup collapses, coffee splashing on the lap and legs
of his police-issue uniform. He insists his sex life ruined by hot Starbucks coffee.
Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, shocking new evidence.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Burned by a free cup of coffee and suing Starbucks now.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Kohr received a free cup of coffee at the Starbucks on P (ph) Street. Kohr says the lid popped off and the cup
folded in on itself in his lap.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And live, Birmingham suburbs. A beloved pastor at a mega- church, First Baptist Church of Birmingham, allegedly murders his wife to begin a new love life overseas? The pastor spotted boarding an
international flight to Germany. As we go to air, we obtain explosive and damning e-mails written by the so-called killer preacher.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: E-mails which indicate that Richard Sheehan (ph) was having extra-marital relations.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "You had me at full attention with pick (ph) number two. I would just die to chew that uncut (EXPLETIVE DELETED) of
yours. And then your sex talk. You only turn me on higher. I want to (EXPLETIVE DELETED) and be (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Karen Sheehan`s (ph) body was discovered in their home off of Lake Shore.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight, to North Carolina. When a Raleigh police officer, 44-year-old Matthew Kohr, pulls into the local Starbucks, he gets the usual
free cup of coffee for cops. But when the lid pops off, he claims the cup collapses, coffee splashing on the lap and legs of his police-issue
uniform. Tonight, he`s insisting his sex life is ruined by hot Starbucks coffee. Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, shocking new evidence.
But first, breaking news. After 17-year-old Trayvon Martin gunned down by the captain of neighborhood watch, George Zimmerman walks free.
But then reports of a physical altercation with his wife, and then claims Zimmerman pulled a shotgun on his girlfriend. Then we uncover Zimmerman`s
shocking arsenal of guns and ammo, followed by a road rage incident where Zimmerman allegedly threatens to shoot the other driver.
Will it all culminate tonight? In the last hours, we learn police race to the scene after they discover George Zimmerman, nearly two years to
the date he walks free on murder charges with Trayvon Martin, in another gun-toting altercation.
Straight out to Josh Miranda joining us, reporter with WDBO. At first, Josh, we hear that Zimmerman`s been shot in the face, that there`s
been another road rage incident with George Zimmerman. This guy can`t stay out of trouble! What led up to today`s shooting on the freeway?
JOHN MIRANDA, WDBO (via telephone): Well, we spoke with police, and they told us that all of this appeared to stem from a road rage incident.
This is in the city of Lake Mary. Now, the initial reports actually said that he was shot in the face, but we just spoke with the hospital and we
were told that a bullet missed his head but that he was sprayed with glass from the window (INAUDIBLE) and suffered minor injuries.
GRACE: Back it up, Josh. I want to take it step by step.
For those of you just joining us, nearly to the date Zimmerman walks free after he shoots an unarmed teen, Trayvon Martin -- let`s see a shot of
Trayvon, please, for those that don`t remember Trayvon Martin. Almost to the date that he walks free on that incident, George Zimmerman involved in
yet another altercation revolving around weapons.
So Josh Miranda, joining me live from WDBO, what provoked this shooting?
MIRANDA: Well, police still aren`t exactly sure who might have provoked all of this or who started it exactly. But we are seeing that
shots were fired at Zimmerman`s SUV and that a bullet missed his head, but he was sprayed with glass from the window and that he`d suffered minor
injuries.
GRACE: Also joining me right now, Frank Taaffe, supporter of George Zimmerman, long-time supporter of George Zimmerman. Mr. Taaffe, once
again, Zimmerman in the middle of a gun controversy, police racing to the scene, this time under the belief that Zimmerman`s been shot in the face
after yet another road rage incident.
[20:05:15]What`s with Zimmerman? There`s always a problem, and it always revolves around some type of an altercation.
FRANK TAAFFE, SUPPORTER OF GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: Well, you did mention the fact that it`s almost been two years to the date, and I believe and I
feel strongly that he has not even sought professional help for taking the life of Trayvon Martin. And these are all just incidents of acting out in
different ways...
GRACE: Are you trying to say this a desperate cry for help? Is that what you`re trying to say?
TAAFFE: I think so. Absolutely. You know, we don`t know who started this road rage. Number one, he`s a target. Everybody knows his Honda
Ridgeline in Lake Mary. I`ve seen him drive around, and he`s a moving target. An easy glory seeker could automatically...
GRACE: Can I ask you a question, Taaffe?
TAAFFE: ... find a gun and shoot him. Yes, go ahead.
GRACE: How in heck would somebody driving along a Florida highway know that that`s Zimmerman inside a truck undoubtedly with tinted windows
and all that? How would you know that`s Zimmerman?
TAAFFE: Easily.
GRACE: They wouldn`t know. How?
TAAFFE: Easily. They would. His truck has been plastered all over the media. You guys have shown it. And what does it take for somebody...
GRACE: I wouldn`t...
TAAFFE: Let me finish -- what would it take to somebody not to know it wasn`t him? You know, he`s not...
GRACE: Well, I got to tell you this, Taaffe. I wouldn`t know his truck if it bit me on the neck, OK? So I wouldn`t know...
TAAFFE: You don`t live in Lake Mary. I do.
GRACE: ... his truck from any other truck driving along. But why is it -- unleash the lawyers. Joining me, Rene Sandler out of D.C., Randy
Kessler out of Atlanta.
To you, Sandler. What`s with George Zimmerman?
Everybody, let`s see a shot of George Zimmerman. Do you remember, Liz? Can you pull up that video where he had somehow appointed himself as
a security guard at a gun shop? Remember that?
Then we`ve got, Rene Sandler, the incident where his girlfriend says she attacks him. (sic) Then we`ve got the incident where the wife says she
attacks -- she attacks her. (sic) There was another road rage incident, now this, where fire, open fire was exchanged on a Florida highway.
RENE SANDLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: And there`s not a single case in which he`s been found guilty of anything. He`s a victim here, Nancy, a
victim. He`s shot at. There`s a bullet in his car. It nearly misses him, could have killed him. There`s nothing, not a shred of evidence, to
suggest that George Zimmerman did anything wrong in this case, or any other case, for that matter.
GRACE: All right, Kessler, what are you, the caboose on that train, Kessler?
RANDY KESSLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: One hundred percent. He`s been accused, and he`s been accused five, six times. You know what an
accusation...
SANDLER: That`s right.
KESSLER: ... equals? It equals zero. It equals nothing. Bupkis. When you get accused, you`re innocent until proven guilty...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: You guys don`t remember Trayvon Martin?
(CROSSTALK)
SANDLER: He was acquitted.
KESSLER: That`s horrible.
GRACE: ... the unarmed boy. What -- yes. You know what?
KESSLER: That was horrible, Nancy, but he didn`t get convicted.
GRACE: He was acquitted -- put up the lawyers, please! He`s acquitted just like O.J. Simpson was acquitted, all right? I`m not
impressed.
KESSLER: George Zimmerman is no O.J. Simpson.
(CROSSTALK)
SANDLER: You can`t retry him every time. He was acquitted by a jury in a court of law, and he`s been found not to be involved in any of these
other incidents.
KESSLER: Don`t you believe in our jury system.
GRACE: You know, what is it going to take for you two, another dead body?
Let me go back to Frank Taaffe...
KESSLER: That`s our jury system.
GRACE: ... one of few supporters of George Zimmerman. But Taaffe, I want to hear what you`ve got to say because, you know, when you don`t know
a horse, look at his track record. You`ve got Trayvon Martin dead, an unarmed teen boy. You`ve got the girlfriend calling that your guy,
Zimmerman, is trying to kill her. You`ve got the wife saying something similar. You`ve got another road rage with George Zimmerman. It goes on
and on and on.
TAAFFE: Gold diggers. Those females were gold diggers!
GRACE: Gold diggers?
TAAFFE: Here`s the irony of all this. If you...
GRACE: Really? You think they`re gold diggers?
TAAFFE: ... let me finish, please? Oh, yes, absolutely. Here`s the irony. Three years ago, he was charged with second degree murder and they
were going to invoke "stand your ground." Wouldn`t -- isn`t this ironic now he`s going to be the one that these people that shot at him could
potentially be charged with second degree murder, and he would have to invoke -- or they might invoke "stand your ground." That`s just food for
thought for your viewers.
GRACE: More food for thought from Frank Taaffe. You know what? Just to jog your memory, take a listen to this 911 call. There`s so many to
pick from.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: Are you following him?
GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: Yes.
911 OPERATOR: OK, we don`t need you to do that.
ZIMMERMAN: OK.
Hey, we`ve had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there`s a real suspicious guy at Retreat View Circle. (INAUDIBLE) 111 Retreat View
Circle. This guy looks like he`s up to no good or he`s on drugs or something. It`s raining, and he`s just walking around, looking about.
[20:10:01]911 OPERATOR: OK. This guy, is he white, black or Hispanic?
ZIMMERMAN: He looks black.
911 OPERATOR: Did you see what he was wearing?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes, a dark hoodie, like, a gray hoodie, and either jeans or sweatpants and white tennis shoes. He`s here now. He`s just staring.
911 OPERATOR: Probably just walking around the area.
ZIMMERMAN: Looking at all the houses.
911 OPERATOR: OK.
ZIMMERMAN: Now he`s staring at me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK. Now, that`s for those of you that don`t recall when an unarmed teen was gunned down by the captain of the neighborhood watch,
George Zimmerman. For those of you just joining us, another shooting incident surrounding George Zimmerman.
Now, Frank Taaffe, his defender, has just branded his ex-wife and girlfriend both gold diggers. Listen to their 911 call.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you serious?
911 OPERATOR: 911. Police, fire and medical.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I need police right now.
911 OPERATOR: What`s your address?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re the one that`s breaking stuff in my house!
911 OPERATOR: Ma`am, what`s going on?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s in my house, breaking all my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) because I asked him to leave. He has his friggin` gun, breaking
all of my stuff right now. No, this is not...
911 OPERATOR: OK...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m doing this again? You just broke my glass table! You just broke my sunglasses! And you put your gun in my friggin`
face and told me to get the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) out! So this is not your house. No! Get out of here!
911 OPERATOR: OK, what is your name? OK, where is his weapon at?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He just put it down.
911 OPERATOR: OK. This is...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Get out of my house! Do not push me out of my house! Please get out of my house.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re going to...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you serious right now?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK, to you, Frank Taaffe, Rene Sandler and Randy Kessler. First to you, Taaffe. That doesn`t sound like a gold digger to me. That
sounds like...
TAAFFE: Nancy...
GRACE: ... he`s there and he`s got his gun out.
TAAFFE: Nancy!
GRACE: What? What?
TAAFFE: Nancy, please...
GRACE: What?
TAAFFE: Being a former prosecutor, you know if the state had a shard of evidence that they could convict George Zimmerman, they would have done
it. Now, these women made complaints. The state said, We`re not going to file any charges. So why waste the taxpayers` money?
GRACE: You called them gold diggers and you tried to make it look like...
TAAFFE: Absolutely.
GRACE: ... Zimmerman didn`t do what they said.
TAAFFE: Zimmerman -- we don`t know. You weren`t there. That`s just them talking on the phone. Maybe they had it reversed.
GRACE: That`s you calling...
TAAFFE: We don`t know. Why didn`t they...
GRACE: ... them gold diggers.
TAAFFE: Why didn`t the...
GRACE: You can hear him in the background.
TAAFFE: ... state prosecute -- but why didn`t the state prosecute him?
GRACE: My guess would be...
TAAFFE: Why? Because there was nothing there.
GRACE: My guess would be...
TAAFFE: You answer that. You`re a lawyer.
GRACE: ... because the woman dropped the charges because she`s probably scared of Zimmerman, would be my guess.
TAAFFE: No, but if they were so scared, why didn`t they follow through? Because they liked him? Because they felt sorry for him? Why
did they even call in the first place?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:16:57]GRACE: For those of you just joining us, breaking news out of Florida. George Zimmerman, who walked after the shooting death of an
unarmed teen, Trayvon Martin, just involved in yet another shooting incident.
Joining me is Frank Taaffe, Zimmerman`s defender, Rene Sandler, defense attorney out of Washington, and Randy Kessler, defense attorney out
of Atlanta.
Taaffe just stating that all the women who accused Zimmerman of attacks on them were all gold diggers. I forgot to mention a third attack.
Just in January 2015 an alleged attack by Zimmerman on another girlfriend with a wine bottle ended up being dropped.
Now, it`s really interesting. Take a listen to this, Taaffe. After Zimmerman is found guilty (sic) for murdering Trayvon Martin, several women
with whom he is involved make domestic abuse claims. Now, they never get any money, from what we know. You`ve got the girlfriend with the gun that
we just heard her 911. You`ve got the wife, I think Shelley, where she claims he`s got a gun pulled on her. Then you`ve got this other incident
in just January -- that`s five months ago -- where he allegedly assaults a woman with a wine bottle.
And they`re always recanting -- I want you to listen to his wife`s 911. This in the last hours, Zimmerman in the middle of another gun-toting
incident. Take a listen to this 911.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: 911. Do you need police, fire or medical?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) I need police.
911 OPERATOR: All right. We do have units en route to you, ma`am. Is he still there?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, he is. He`s trying to shut the garage door on me.
911 OPERATOR: Is he inside now?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. He`s in his car, and he continually has his hand on his gun and he keeps saying, Step closer. He`s just threatening
all of us with his firearm.
911 OPERATOR: Step closer and what?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And he`s going to shoot us.
911 OPERATOR: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He punched my dad in the nose. My dad has a mark on his face. I saw his glasses were on the floor. He accosted my
father and then took my iPad out of my hands and smashed it and cut it with a pocket knife. And there`s a Lake Mary city worker across the street that
I believe saw almost all of it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK, unleash the panel, Taaffe, Kessler and Rene Sandler. All right, Taaffe, there`s your man that you still defend. I guess you`re
going to go down with the Titanic. You claim...
TAAFFE: Drama!
GRACE: ... that that woman is also a gold digger?
TAAFFE: It`s all drama, drama, drama.
GRACE: Sounds like a felony to me.
TAAFFE: OK, sounds like drama to me.
GRACE: So if you -- do you really think the more you wave your have your hands like that, it`s going to make it true?
TAAFFE: Look, those three girls...
GRACE: You`re like my 7-year-old and his magic tricks.
TAAFFE: All right -- check this out.
[20:20:04]GRACE: Tell me, what?
TAAFFE: This is it. All three non-acquitted, (sic) no charges, end of story. Today`s a different day, OK? He was targeted. I feel like
George Zimmerman was targeted today. Somebody who wanted to seek glory, media attention, and guess what? They got it. Now we`ll see what happens
from here. You know what? This could be "stand your ground." This could be...
GRACE: "Stand your ground" in a car?
TAAFFE: Sure.
GRACE: Stacey Newman...
TAAFFE: Road rage.
GRACE: ... isn`t it true that the other party involved in today`s George Zimmerman gun-toting incident also calls 911? Didn`t the other guy
call 911, as well?
STACEY NEWMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, what we heard is the other driver involved in today`s incident, he pulls up, and some guy who was
getting out of his car after lunch said the guy was screaming, I shot George Zimmerman, call 911, and told that man he had been involved in three
disputes with George Zimmerman.
We also know back in September, he was the driver who was involved in that road rage incident, the one who Zimmerman threatened, I will f-ing
kill you. It`s the same man.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:25:06]GRACE: Breaking news tonight. We are bringing you the latest story out of Florida, George Zimmerman nearly, to the date he walks
free for gunning down unarmed teen Trayvon Martin, involved in yet another gun-toting incident, this time on the Florida highways.
This is what we know. Gunfire breaks out on a public road in Florida. Zimmerman calls 911. The other party calls 911. Everybody`s calling 911,
pointing the finger. But the fact remains that nearly to the date Zimmerman walks free for gunning down unarmed Trayvon Martin, he is
involved in yet another incident.
Let me understand this. With me, Frank Taaffe, supporting Zimmerman, Rene Sandler supporting Zimmerman, Randy Kessler out of Atlanta, all
supporting Zimmerman.
So in the face of the captain of neighborhood watch gunning down an unarmed teen, having his wife call that he`s got a gun and he punched her
dad in the nose, the girlfriend claiming he`s pulled a gun on her, and then another girlfriend claiming he assaults her with a wine bottle -- to you,
Rene Sandler. You`re still saying that none of that bears on the incident today where yet another shooting incident revolves around George Zimmerman?
SANDLER: That is absolutely correct. That caller, the female that we just heard from that alleges George Zimmerman did something...
GRACE: That was his wife.
SANDLER: No, no, no, the caller before that, the girlfriend.
GRACE: Oh, the girlfriend?
SANDLER: That is the combative caller who was engaging verbally with Mr. Zimmerman -- prosecutors have elected not to proceed in these cases.
GRACE: Hold on, Sandler! Hold on just a moment!
TAAFFE: Absolutely. There you go.
GRACE: Kessler, if I`m not mistaken, the first caller I played for you, the girlfriend, it was in her home. It was in her home, and he`s
trying to throw her out of her home. I don`t know if that`s combative. You all keep talking about "stand your ground"...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Kessler?
KESSLER: You know what it is? It`s irrelevant. That`s what it is.
SANDLER: That`s right.
KESSLER: Your trial by media tactics don`t work. You don`t try somebody by piecing together five accusations and saying, Well, we didn`t
get a conviction on the other one, so maybe we`ll keep swinging the bat and maybe we`ll get one here.
SANDLER: That`s right.
KESSLER: This case is going to be judged on its own merits. And so far, he hasn`t done anything wrong except get shot! That`s all that`s
happened here.
(CROSSTALK)
TAAFFE: He had to brandish a weapon somehow because this guy just didn`t pull out a gun, I don`t believe, and said, Hey, I`m just going to
put a hole in him. The two of them have had fights before and disputes in the past. So he probably knew George had a gun, and he shot first. So
we`ll see.
GRACE: You know, I don`t know what part of the wild, wild West you three are from, but in the United States, in a civilized...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... you don`t have gun fight-outs as you`re driving along a highway with mothers and children in their carseats going by at the same
time you`re pulling out your 9 and shooting through the window!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:33:00]
GRACE: Live, North Carolina. When a Raleigh police officer, 44-year- old Matthew Kohr, pulls into the local Starbucks, he gets his usual free cup of coffee for cops. But when the lid pops off, he claims the cup
collapses, coffee splashing on the lap and legs of his police-issued uniform. Tonight, he`s insisting his sex life ruined by hot Starbucks
coffee. Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, shocking new evidence.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Matthew Kohr received a free cup of coffee at the Starbucks on Peach Street, says the cup collapsed and spilled on his
lap. Says he suffered third degree burns and blisters.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Starbucks picked his story apart. They showed that he went to a Pearl Jam concert and a theme park that same year. He
posted on Facebook about feeling great after a run.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I go through times where I would get bad --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: What was that, Candace Trunzo, senior news editor, dailymail.com, he`s suing for nearly a million dollars because he spilled
hot coffee, but he went to a Pearl Jam concert after the burn?
TRUNZO: Yes, he did. He went to a Pearl Jam concert. He was seen playing a little sports. He said on his Facebook that he felt great after
having a run. So you wonder just how --
GRACE: Had a run? Whoa, wait, Candace, yes, no, was he out running after he -- warning, graphic photos of the burns, he claims third degree
burns. There he is at Pearl Jam, I guess. But did you tell me, Candace, yes/no, that he went running after the burn occurred?
TRUNZO: Yes, that`s what he said. He was on his Facebook. It`s tripped up a lot of people, and it`s going to trip up this cop, I think,
because he said he went for a run and he was feeling great.
GRACE: Graphic photos coming up, of photos we obtained of the actual burns. Joining me right now, special guest and neighbor of the person that
we`re talking about, Matthew Kohr, the cop who got a free cup of coffee and then spilled it. Ray Quercia is with us, neighbor of Matthew Kohr. Thank
you for being with us.
RAY QUERCIA, NEIGHBOR: You`re quite welcome, Nancy.
GRACE: What do you make of this nearly million dollar lawsuit? Because a lot of damning evidence is coming out and none of it is helping
the cop.
QUERCIA: Yes. Well, myself and my friends, we all agree, actually most of us were not even aware of the case until Monday night. I happen to
be away and someone called me and said do you know your neighbor is in court? And I said, no. And I was kind of shocked. But after looking at
the evidence, we all thought that there`s no possible way that this could, you know.
GRACE: A million dollar lawsuit? That`s about the amount he`s suing for. Ray Quercia is with us, a neighbor of Matthew Kohr. The man suing
Starbucks over a hot cup of coffee he spills in his own lap. Nearly a million dollars.
Ray, what did you observe of your neighbor? You guys have all lived in the same neighborhood for a long time, right?
QUERCIA: I`ve lived here for eight years.
GRACE: What did you observe?
QUERCIA: Well, I didn`t observe anything different than what he always did. You know, I saw him out running now and then. Like I said, I
was not aware of the Starbucks incident. I was aware of his surgery, because a neighbor told me about it. And about two or three weeks later, I
saw him out jogging quite often.
GRACE: Now, hold on, hold on. The surgery you`re talking about, Mr. Quercia is the Crohn`s disease surgery where he had a portion of his
intestines removed.
QUERCIA: Yes.
GRACE: He`s also claiming in front of a jury, he`s claiming under oath that spilling coffee on himself exacerbated his Crohn`s disease.
You`re telling me you`ve seen him out running since his surgery?
QUERCIA: Yes.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Rene Sandler, Randy Kessler. Okay. First to you. Rene Sandler. Let`s hear your defense of this cop.
SANDLER: Well, the only thing I will say -- first of all, are you saying that the photos aren`t real? The photos clearly show an injury.
GRACE: That`s not what I`m saying.
SANDLER: He`s within his right to bring this suit. I will say that usually workers` compensation is the exclusive remedy if he`s on the job.
Not a personal injury suit. That`s a little strange. But he was clearly injured. There`s physical injury. And if Crohn`s --
GRACE: Because he spilled coffee on himself.
SANDLER: If that lid wasn`t secure, and Starbucks owed a duty to him and every other customer to make sure it was secure. If they failed in
that duty, they breached that duty, and he was injured, Starbucks is on the hook.
GRACE: To Dr. Bill Manion, forensic pathologist joining us. We have spoken to medical doctors. They say that third degree burns are the type
of burns you get, for instance, when a burning building falls in on you, not what you would get from a hot cup of coffee.
MANION: Actually, you can get a third degree burn from hot foods. It will heat up the cloth and the pants will stay attached to your skin. And
by third degree we mean it goes through the full thickness of the skin. So it is possible to get a third degree burn from a scalding hot cup of
coffee. That is possible.
GRACE: Maybe I just don`t understand the time line then. Clark Goldband, how soon after the burn at Starbucks did he go back to, I guess
his second job? Wasn`t it, what, two or three weeks?
GOLDBAND: Well, Nancy, here`s what we know. We`re talking about two separate time lines here. The first time line being when the coffee was
allegedly spilled on him. He apparently jumped up because he had such a painful reaction from that hot coffee, and then went into the rest room at
the Starbucks. It`s not clear how much time had passed, and had another officer he was with help cool him down as he took those clothes off.
GRACE: For those of you just joining us, Matthew Kohr, 44-year-old cop, goes and gets a cup of coffee at Starbucks, spills it and sues for
about a million dollars. Two days after these devastating burns, he posted about the No. 1 song on the day he was born. Okay. I guess he had time to
research that. Five days later, time sheet shows regular work.
Hold on. I need to write this down. Five days later, back at work. 17 days later, he`s working eight hours off-duty security. Three and a
half months later after injury claim, he told the doctor he runs to deal with his shakiness. Is there more? May 12th, posted on Facebook about
being out with his son practicing baseball. "My father was impressed. I ran marathons and said that was something he wished he had done. I ran
three miles this morning, and it felt damn good."
[20:40:00]
Okay. All of this is taking place after the spill. There he is with his son at Pearl Jam. Then he goes to Universal Studios in Florida. Once
again, release the lawyers.
Joining me, Randy Kessler and Rene Sandler. All right, Kessler. Are you going to be the caboose again? Are you going to do independent
thinking here? He`s at Pearl Jam.
KESSLER: Nancy, you spent the last five minutes trying to minimize his damages, talking about how he wasn`t damaged that bad. You weren`t
talking about causation. An injury was caused. The question of how much and how bad, that`s up to the jury. You did not even argue they didn`t
cause it. Starbucks needs to be careful. Lawsuits lake this make sure the big companies are not careless. If they were careless, they should be held
responsible. If they were not careless, they will not be held responsible.
GRACE: With me Rene Sandler and Randy Kessler. But what we`re hearing, Candace Trunzo, the jury disagrees with Kessler and Sandler. What
do you know, Candace?
TRUNZO: Ten jurors felt that Starbucks is not liable in this case. We must have two coffee drinkers who believe that the officer was hurt and
that it wasn`t his fault, it was Starbucks fault. But the judge decided to let the ten jurors rule instead of 12 count. And our officer has lost out
and Starbucks has won.
GRACE: Okay. According to Candace Trunzo, senior news editor, Dailymail.com, the jury has returned a verdict, they have handed down a
verdict, the cop loses.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:46:00]
GRACE: Live, Birmingham suburbs, a beloved and long-time preacher at a mega church, First Baptist of Birmingham, allegedly murders his wife to
begin a new love life overseas. The pastor spotted boarding an international flight to Germany. As we go to air, we obtain explosive and
damning e-mails written by the so-called killer preacher.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are statements and e-mails which indicate that Richard Sheehan (ph) was having extramarital relations.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m just giddy with love for you. And now that I have a smell to add to my mental and visual sensations, I am just totally
enraptured with you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: E-mails from Richard Sheehan include references to Karen`s death as an answer to his prayers.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s only one way I could become legally single. I have to wait until God grants me that gift.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Dave Mack, syndicated talk show host. Dave, from what I understand, this pastor at this mega church, this baptist mega
church, kept waiting for God to answer his prayers and kill his wife. But apparently God was just too slow for this guy, so he murdered her himself.
Is that what police are saying?
MACK: Nancy, that`s dead on. She actually was diabetic. Her mother had been diabetic before. Neither one of them took appropriate care, and
that`s what he was banking on, was that her diabetes would take her life so he wouldn`t have to. But then after the e-mails we read today, I`m telling
you, Nancy, he just lost patience and he wanted what he wanted.
GRACE: And what he wanted was a lover he meets online who lives overseas. Let me understand this, Dave Mack. He kept waiting for God to
do away with his long-time wife, all right, and he didn`t want his flock at this mega church to find out what he was up to, so God, I guess, just what,
didn`t answer his prayers fast enough?
MACK: You know, Garth Brooks had a song called "Unanswered Prayers." I think that`s this guy`s theme song. What`s really sad is I think about
the families and children he counseled at that church and what they`re thinking right now. He sped the process up so he could hurry off to
Scotland to live with his lover. That`s what he wanted to do, and that`s why they caught him in Nashville, boarding the flight.
GRACE: Let`s take a look at what we have just uncovered tonight, damning e-mails that really make the case for the police.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You had me at full attention with pick number 2. I would just die to chew that uncut [ bleep ] of yours. I have never been
on an uncut [ bleep ], but I`ve always fantasized about it. Yes, I could feel you in my mouth.
And then your sex talk, you only turn me on higher. I want to [ bleep ] and be [ bleep ], and far too many people, men, want only one or the
other. It is much hotter for me to remain fresh and genuine, involved in it all, even though I`m fairly domineering. I love the idea of totally
having my way with you until you beg for more to stop, to do it again, to try it another way, et cetera. Yes, the sex will be rough because I cannot
get enough of you fast enough to even begin to satiate my desire. I have years of closeted repressed sexual energy and passion and desire. Oh, take
me, baby.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Okay. Well, he should be convicted on the e-mails alone. To Dr. Greg Cason, psychologist joining me out of L.A. I don`t understand
what the problem is with divorce. Why not just get a divorce?
CASON: Nancy, I think this is the golden question that we ask over and over. But let`s look at the man`s role here, that he was in extreme
shame. He lived a life of shame in this mega church, that all he wanted to do was to have --
GRACE: Shame? You think somehow murder is not as bad as shame?
CASON: I think murder is --
GRACE: Over a lover?
CASON: No. Murder is much worse than shame.
GRACE: He did not sound like he was very shameful in those e-mails. Do I need to play them again for you, Greg?
[20:50:00]
CASON: No. But go back and look, he`s a repressed gay man, and that he lived in a mega church in a life that he did not want to give up. I`m
not excusing this guy. I`m saying that he was deeply sick and pathological, and that would make me believe that he just acted out of
insecurity in taking his wife`s life. I don`t think it`s a good one.
GRACE: Acted out of insecurity?
CASON: I think the noble and courageous thing would be to divorce.
GRACE: What did you say, he killed her out of insecurity?
CASON: Not just a little insecurity like you and I have going to a party.
GRACE: You just said that.
CASON: This is something deep, shame, because he lives in a world that hates gays. And he`s a part of that world. So he hates himself. So
all he wants to do then is take out his hatred on something else. Unfortunately, his wife was the victim. This is a deeply sick man.
GRACE: I`m not understanding something. Nobody in that church, nobody in the media, cares if he is gay or straight. Nobody cares. So why
not just say I`m getting a divorce? Why not just get a divorce?
CASON: Nancy, BS, I don`t believe for a second that nobody cares he`s gay or straight. Even his wife gave him an ultimatum. They definitely
cared what his sexual orientation was. But this man could not stand up and be a man and just say I am gay. And this is the life I`m going to lead and
give up those other things and give up people`s prejudices and move on with his life. So he was caught in a trap.
GRACE: I just feel like somehow, you`re justifying a murder. He`s not caught in a trap. Nobody`s caught in a trap. OK? He could divorce
his wife. He did not have to kill her.
CASON: I`m not justifying.
GRACE: And he did not have to wait for God to kill her, for Pete`s sake.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:56:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: E-mails which indicate Richard Sheehan was having extramarital relations.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You had me at full attention with pick number 2. I would just die to chew that uncut [ bleep ] of yours. And then your sex
talk, you only turn me on higher. I want to [ bleep ] and be [ bleep ].
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tara Sheehan`s (ph) body was discovered in their home off of lake shore.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I received your letter today, and your aftershave has to be the absolute best scent I have ever smelled. I`m just giddy with
love for you, and now that I have a smell to add to my mental and visual sensations, I am just totally enraptured with you. I love you so much.
Thank you, thank you, thank you. And then I find myself thinking about picturing myself packing up and leaving my life and moving to Scotland and
the two of us living together for the rest of our lives. I actually was standing in my closet the other night thinking, now, which clothes would I
pack up to move to Scotland? Or I find myself picturing you living with me in the house here and us living our lives day to day in Birmingham. Or
another, we spend six months in Scotland at your place and six months here at my place. I dream, desire and pray for it to become real every day.
And to answer your question, yes, if and when I fly into Glasgow and walk into the terminal, I will kiss and hug you and not care who is there. I
don`t want to embarrass you nor make you uncomfortable in public, but I cannot wait for our lips to finally touch for the first time. I think I
can get away for a little while on Thursday afternoon. If you want to and have a little time to Skype.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Dave Mack, syndicated talk show host, apparently even more damning e-mails coming to light tonight. We dig them up. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m in a legal marriage contract. There`s not an acceptable way for me to dissolve that and continue with the things that
are important to me, my job and children. There`s only one way I could become legally single, and I have to wait until God grants me that gift.
It will come. The woman I lived with is slowly killing herself. She is diabetic and refuses to take care of herself physically. Her mother died
early with the same disease, and did the same thing to her body. So I pray and wait. It will happen in God`s timing. I pray you don`t find me cold
and unfeeling, a heartless bitch. I do care about her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: So Dave Mack, how exactly was the pastor`s wife killed?
MACK: He attacked her, allegedly. She was stabbed with a knife. She had multiple contusions on her front and back and defensive wounds on her
arms.
GRACE: Okay, Dave Mack, we`ll stay tuned to see how it all plays out.
Everyone, let`s remember American hero, Marine Sergeant John Phillips, just 29, St. Stephens, South Carolina. Second tour, Purple Heart, Combat
Action Ribbon. Remembered for his beautiful smile. Parents Allen and Linda, two brothers, widow Stephanie. John Phillips, American hero.
It`s National Police Week. Law enforcement from around the world in D.C. now to honor those who make the ultimate sacrifice, killed in the line
of duty. To donate or info, go to policeweek.org. Let`s support our police from around the world. The new Dr. Drew with live studio audience
premieres next. See you tomorrow night at 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, good night, friend.
END
