Return to Transcripts main page
Nancy Grace
D.C. Mansion Murders Developments. Aired 8-9:00p ET
Aired May 20, 2015 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. We go live as police reveal a murdered CEO, his young wife and little son, plus their maid,
were, quote, "bound and tortured" overnight in their D.C. mansion, then the house set ablaze.
Who would torture and kill a mother, her little boy, husband and maid? The only clue emerging, video from the same neighborhood revealing this
mystery man shrouded in black, a hoodie covering his face. Is he the killer?
Bombshell tonight. As we go to air, reports, stunning reports, sickening reports the 10-year-old little boy was separated, isolated from
Mommy and Daddy and then tortured. Motive, tonight reports to extort major money from Daddy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) northwest.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A chilling piece of evidence in the deaths of a wealthy D.C. family and their housekeeper.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We removed four victims. It`s going to be a prolonged secondary search, four victims that were removed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And live, Brandywine. When your child gets a substitute teacher, who are these people? Tonight, reports a Maryland substitute
teacher unleashes on middle school students, beating the children viciously with a belt, and it`s all caught on YouTube video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The video has gone viral.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The teacher was a sub. You can see the man whipping the children with what appears to be a belt.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kids on the floor, desks overturned.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That video from YouTube.
And live, Colorado. Is a deadly sniper on the loose?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gunned down while riding on this rural road near Windsor Lake.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say Jacobi was shot twice. Investigators say they can`t rule out related to another attack of a driver on Interstate
25.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Corey (ph) noticed a car pull up to her driver`s side as she was exiting Harmony onto I-25.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I thought it was a hit and run, but my window shattered.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. We go live as police reveal a murdered CEO, his wife, their little boy and their maid, quote, "bound and tortured"
overnight in their D.C. mansion, then the house set ablaze. Who would torture and kill a mother and her little boy, her husband and the maid?
The only clue emerging, video from the same neighborhood, reveals this mystery man shrouded in black, a hoodie covering his face. Is he the
killer? As we go to air, reports the little boy was separated from Mommy and Daddy and the maid. The bombshell tonight. Was the little boy
isolated, then tortured to extort major money from Daddy?
Straight out to Joe Johns, CNN correspondent joining me right there in D.C. Joe, the reports get worse and worse and worse seemingly by the
minute. What do we know tonight?
JOE JOHNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Nancy, we know it`s starting to look more and more like robbery was at least part of the motive at this
stage. "Washington Post," local NBC station WRC reporting that someone delivered $40,000 in cash to the home shortly before it burned. This
matches up with something a law enforcement source told CNN earlier this week, that the assailants of the family got away with the same amount of
money, $40,000.
Savvas Savopoulos, the father, ran a construction supply company that provided metal building materials for some of the largest construction
projects in D.C., but he was also starting up a martial arts facility in northern Virginia, apparently a martial arts hobbyist..
There are also some horrifying new details. Sources tell CNN`s Pam Brown the victims were bound with duct tape and held captive by the
perpetrators. There were signs, she`s being told, of torture of at least one of the victims, and so the question is, where does this lead, Nancy.
GRACE: You know, also, to you, Michael Board, WOAI. Michael, we are also learning that -- CNN sources are confirming duct tape was used to bind
the mommy, the daddy, the little boy and the maid. We`re learning this family was held hostage apparently overnight from Wednesday night into
Thursday.
But there was contact with some of the family members, people in the home Thursday morning. The fire erupts and is reported around 1:00
o`clock, which means, did the murders go down sometime between 9:00 and 10:00 AM and 1:00 PM that Thursday? There were two other little girls that
were not home at the time.
[20:05:15]Did the killer make off with $40,000? And did the perps actually isolate and torture the little boy in order to get the father to
cough up money? We understand the little boy is found separate from the rest of the family, that his body was totally burned beyond recognition.
Michael Board, WOAI, why do they believe the little boy was tortured to make Daddy cough up money?
MICHAEL BOARD, WOAI (via telephone): Well, they believe that he was on a different floor, in a bed, where he had stab wounds, reportedly, and
also burned -- his body burned beyond recognition. And Nancy, if you need another key to why these guys were such sickos, we`re also hearing reports
from local media there that a Domino`s pizza was delivered to the home that evening, or the evening before. These sickos were in the home torturing
the family and ordering out pizza for dinner!
GRACE: Whoa. OK, wait. Joe Johns, CNN correspondent, we have heard that report, as well, that during all of this -- the family somehow ends up
in the position of being held hostage in their own home. They are bound with duct tape. They`re killed, the house set on fire. And during all
this, the perps ordered Domino`s?
JOHNS: Yes, it`s a pretty horrifying story. And you`re right, it just seems to get worse and worse. Police were saying early on that they
thought the perpetrators had actually commandeered that 2008 Porsche as early as Wednesday night, even though...
GRACE: Are you talking about the car that was set on fire?
JOHNS: That`s right.
GRACE: Let`s see that video, Liz
JOHNS: Right, the car that was set on fire. It was found in a Maryland suburb in Prince Georges County. There was some concern that it
had been commandeered perhaps the night before, all of this indicating that the ordeal for this family began on Wednesday evening, long before they
were found dead on Thursday afternoon.
GRACE: You know, Joe Johns, CNN correspondent joining me there in D.C., another interesting thing about where the family car was burned --
it`s about four miles from where the father worked at the iron company where he was the CEO.
JOHNS: Right.
GRACE: Not only that, Joe Johns, take a look at this map. You`ve got American Iron Works four miles away, the car found on fire less than a mile
from there.
You see that person dressed in black with a hoodie running along behind a venue. It`s a venue, like a banquet hall near a church. So I`m
wondering if the person didn`t abandon the car, set it on fire, and know this route. He knew to run behind this big facility hall to get to what?
Not far away is a metro station, or was a car waiting on him? And is he carrying the $40,000 that was dropped off at the family home during this
hostage ordeal?
Can you imagine, you open the door possibly to somebody you think you know, suddenly you, your husband are rushed off to one room, bound and
gagged with duct tape, and your little boy is taken to another room to a bed...
JOHNS: Right.
GRACE: ... where he is tortured to make Daddy cough up money. Joe, listen to this voicemail message, to this message we got of the father
speaking. Listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I hope you get this message. Amy is in bed sick tonight and she was sick this afternoon and (DELETED) offered to stay and
help her out because, you know, we`re going through some stuff (INAUDIBLE)
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: OK, that is from ABC`s "GMA." So Joe, that is the father leaving that message to clearly ward off anybody else coming to the house.
Let me ask you this, Joe Johns, CNN correspondent. This family apparently had an alarm system that they kept on even when they were at
home, like many people do, like I do. If I`m home with my children, if the children are with me, that alarm system is on. They had an alarm system,
didn`t they, Joe?
JOHNS: Right. And we`ve been told a pretty good alarm system. Also, you have to remember that these expensive houses in this beautiful
neighborhood -- I was over there a couple days ago -- also have security systems. So one of the things the police investigators have been doing is
trying to reach out and see if anybody else in any of those other houses with cameras might have picked up type of image that could help in the
investigation.
GRACE: Hey, Joe? Joe, try to look at your monitor because I`m showing a picture right now that we ISO-ed -- isolated. That`s a camera,
all right? Now, that is a camera on the top under-roof of this home.
[20:10:06]Now, if they`ve got a camera right there, Joe, you can bet your bottom dollar they`ve got cameras all over the house, all right?
JOHNS: That`s right.
GRACE: Because that camera tells me they don`t just have a camera at the front door and the back door. This place is secured out the ying-yang,
OK?
Now, here`s my next question. Ben Levitan, telecommunications, security expert, Ben, if they`ve got cameras -- well, hold on. Joe, aren`t
police saying that they`ve looked at the security cameras and they`re learning nothing?
JOHNS: Well, no, they haven`t said that. We don`t know what they have on the security cameras. But it`s also important to point out that
the police have said there was no forced entry here. So that raises the question, and a lot of people are speculating, that the initial person who
got them in the door knew this family well enough to be allowed in. So the question of whether this was somewhat of an inside job has already been
raised, Nancy.
GRACE: Good point, Joe Johns.
Ben Levitan, I was about to come to you on this very issue. Ben, explain to me -- now, even if you don`t have your alarm system turned on,
those cameras are rolling 24/7, 365.
BEN LEVITAN, TELECOMMUNICATIONS EXPERT (via telephone): That`s right, Nancy.
GRACE: So how are they not getting anything on the cameras?
LEVITAN: They could have very easily -- these sophisticated perpetrators, they could have had a jammer, a wireless jammer. These are
really inexpensive devices. And Nancy, restaurants and theaters buy these to avoid having cell phone ringing, but they`ll also jam cameras. They`ll
jam your GPS. They`ll jam your wi-fi.
So one of the these small devices that you can, buy on the Internet, perfectly legally for probably about $80, Nancy, could have disabled all
the cameras.
GRACE: OK, wa-wa-wa-wa-wait! You`re telling me that with an elite security system, you can get a jammer for 80 bucks on the Internet to jam
it?
LEVITAN: Nancy, these cameras are wireless. You know, everything is wireless, so the cameras are wireless cameras. They would have sent the
feed back to the central -- you know, the central alarm box by a wireless system. If that`s -- if that signal is jammed with a very simple jammer,
the signal would not have gotten back. We don`t know...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... wouldn`t the alarm company realize something was wrong?
LEVITAN: It depends how sophisticated the alarm is. But generally, you have to live in your own house. So you know, the -- you know, the
alarm system is usually connected back to the central office by either a phone line, landline phone line, and those are easily cut, or by a cell
phone signal, which is more common today.
GRACE: Ben -- Ben...
LEVITAN: Your alarm system is connected by cell phone, and that`s jammed, you don`t get a signal back to the alarm company.
GRACE: OK, to me, as a layperson in the security area, you just talked in a circle because I asked you that even if these perps jammed the
cameras, wouldn`t the alarm company realize, Hey, something`s wrong? Or if they cut the landline, wouldn`t that, you know, be a red flag to the alarm
company that something was very, very wrong? How could they not know the cameras are jammed and the alarm -- and the phones have been cut?
LEVITAN: It depends how sophisticated the system is. But generally, if the alarm was off because somebody entered the house, it wouldn`t alarm
the central office.
GRACE: You know, another thing happened -- Liz, if you can pull up that sound where you`re hearing a message, and allegedly, you can hear a
scream in the background. That has just come to light. Take a listen to this, Joe Johns and Michael Board.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I hope you get this message. Amy is in bed sick tonight, and she was sick this afternoon and (DELETED) offered to stay and
help her out because, you know, we`re going through some stuff (INAUDIBLE)
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: This is from ABC`s "GMA." And if you listen very carefully, you can hear what sounds like a scream or a shriek in the background.
Michael Christian, what do we know about that?
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Nancy, several people have speculated that that cry or that shriek could possibly
be Philip Savopoulos being tortured or perhaps another member of the family.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:18:43]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police continue to sift through the remains of a burned Washington, D.C., mansion, searching for clues...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... into the mystery, a voicemail and text message from the family to their other housekeeper, Nelitza.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Around 9:56 AM, they say I want to make sure you do not come today. I don`t know why.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re asking to please call us with what information that you may have.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: This story is developing so rapidly. We are talking about the D.C. mansion murder mystery. Tonight, we are learning that the little boy
was isolated, separated from Mommy and Daddy and the housekeeper, Ms. Figueroa, and the little boy was taken to an upstairs bedroom, where he was
tortured, we believe, in order to get the father to cough up money.
We also know there was a $40,000 delivery, cash, made to that home that day. Did the perps make the father clean out his bank account? Was
it already scheduled? Did they know about it? This guy is the CEO of an iron company, American Iron.
He`s also creating a martial arts business. What was he going to do with the 40 grand? Did somebody within the business know the 40 grand was
coming to the house, or did they make him clean out his bank account?
[20:20:09]We know the perps made off with $40,000, killers reportedly ordering Domino`s pizza as they held the family hostage in their own home,
torturing the little boy so the parents could hear it.
Joe Johns, CNN correspondent joining me. Joe, it`s happening so fast. Could you give us a recap of what you`ve learned so far?
JOHNS: Well, essentially, that`s the information we know. We know that an individual now reported by The Washington Post and the NBC station
here in Washington, D.C., WRC, who apparently was an employee of Savvas Savopoulos appeared at the house and delivered $40,000 cash to him on the
day of fire, the day the family died.
We know from earlier this week that a source told CNN the culprits made away with $40,000. So apparently, the motive in all of this was cash.
And it has been pretty clear from talking to the authorities over the last several days that this family`s ordeal apparently began sometime on
Wednesday and extended over to Thursday, until the family was found dead by authorities and with fire shooting through the roof.
So this investigation continues. It has expanded clearly not just from Washington, D.C., and that very swanky, if you will, neighborhood
here, not far from the vice president`s home, but also out into Prince Georges County, where the fire occurred at a 2008 Porsche, which is a car
that is owned by Savvas Savopoulos. It was found burned on that afternoon.
And there are also questions, of course, as you mentioned, about the martial arts studio that was being stood up over in northern Virginia. So
we have three different jurisdictions here in the Washington, D.C., area, and there are issues in all three.
GRACE: You know, I want to go back to you, Ben Levitan, jumping off of what Joe Johns is saying -- Ben Levitan, security and telecommunications
expert. Another issue is the alarm didn`t go off. However, do alarm companies keep logs? For instance, if the alarm went off and they called
the house and ask for a password, do they keep a record of that?
LEVITAN: The alarm company keeps very meticulous records of every alarm, even if they`re false alarms. They`ll keep real meticulous records.
However, the system, you know, it was like -- the central box was probably burned. So anything that was available, logged there, would have
been destroyed, Nancy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:26:51]UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A chilling piece of evidence in the deaths of a wealthy D.C. family and their housekeeper. Firefighters
captured this video of the family`s Porsche in flames.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The fire appears to be intentionally set.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) northwest.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Unnamed police sources think the killer or killers may have tortured and burned 10-year-old Philip Savopoulos in his bedroom.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I wish I had better news to report to you about this little boy. But it`s becoming more and more apparent to everyone investigating
the case that the mother and father and housekeeper, Veralicia Figueroa, were separated from the little boy. He was taken to another room, tortured
and killed, obviously within earshot of his parents.
Listen to this voicemail. Listen carefully. You can hear a shriek in the background.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I hope you get this message. Amy is in bed sick tonight, and she was sick this afternoon. And (DELETED) offered to stay
and help her out because, you know, we`re going through some stuff with Philip.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: That is from ABC`s "GMA," and the shriek is just before the name is beeped out in that message.
To Michael Board, WOAI. We`re also getting reports that the little boy -- it`s always said the little boy is burned beyond recognition, but
it`s never said about the parents. So I`m trying to imagine these parents in one room, and they`re hearing, just like you can hear on the voicemail,
apparently -- hearing their child screaming in another room. I mean, what parent wouldn`t do anything, anything to save their child?
BOARD: And Nancy, a key part of this investigation is that police are saying that there was not forced entry in this home. But we know from
reports, local reports there, there are reports that other neighbors in this neighborhood noticed people, a strange person knocking on doors, also
an aggressive vacuum cleaner salesman going door to door. Could one of those people have knocked on the door and just found the right door that
would let them into their home?
GRACE: You know, I think it`s got to be more targeted than they knocked on 30 doors, and these people let them in. A, who is going to let
in a vacuum cleaner salesman in that neighborhood? They are not buying a vacuum cleaner from somebody off the street, number one. That`s not going
to work in this house.
If it is an inside job, it`s not a vacuum salesperson -- I don`t believe that. Also, Michael Christian, whoever did this had to hold at bay
the mother, father, housekeeper and the little boy, all right? I just don`t see one person pulling that off.
Michael, why do I keep hearing about the little boy is burned, but the others are not?
CHRISTIAN: You know, Nancy, from the very beginning, police have reported that three of these victims -- and they wouldn`t say which three -
- had signs of blunt force trauma or stab wounds. Well, now we understand it because that would be the three adults. The little boy Phillip was
burned so badly they probably haven`t been able to determine yet whether he had any sort of wounds like that.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:34:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A chilling piece of evidence in the deaths of a wealthy D.C. family and their housekeeper.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We removed four victims. It`s going to be a prolonged secondary search. Four victims were removed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: For those of you just joining us, the D.C. mansion murder mystery is rapidly developing. With every 15 minutes, we are learning
something new. The latest thing we have learned is police may be able to isolate a shriek, a scream in the background of a voicemail message the
father was leaving, warning one of the housekeepers not to come the next day. We`re learning the people, the perpetrators in this case that held
the family hostage in their own home, apparently isolated the little boy, the tiny boy in another room within earshot of the mom and dad and torture
him. The family, the other family members being duct taped sitting up in chairs and reportedly being doused with gasoline. Listen to this
voicemail. Listen carefully.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I hope you get this message. Amy is in bed sick tonight, and she was sick this afternoon, and [ name removed] offered to
stay and help her out because we`re going through some stuff with Phillip.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I want to go straight back out to Michael Board, WOAI, and Joe Johns, CNN correspondent. You just saw a sound from ABC`s GMA. Michael,
the shriek is very unnerving when you are listening to it. But the fact that the perpetrators apparently ordered Dominos pizza, I don`t know if you
recall the Grim Sleeper killer in California, that was caught by DNA on a pizza. This guy or these guys ordered pizza from Dominos during the entire
episode. What do we know? What can we learn from Dominos?
BOARD: We know that a Domino`s delivery person was sent out to that home that night. We don`t know who answered the door. What I was thinking
about is the case recently in Florida, where a family held hostage ordered Pizza Hut and they put down on the ticket, if you remember, please help,
get 911 to me. That Pizza Hut called 911, got them to the house. If only that had happened in this case.
GRACE: I know.
BOARD: They might have saved them.
GRACE: Joe Johns, the $40,000 apparently is part of the motive here. $40,000 cash was dropped off at the home that day by dad`s assistant. What
can we learn from the assistant? Was it planned? Was it planned before this day? Who else knew about it or did the father call that morning and
say get me this morning right now and bring it over here? That would shed a lot of light about how this thing went down and who did it.
JOHNS: Right. The first thing I think investigators want to know and probably already know is what account did that money come from. Did it
come from something over at the Ironworks, which he owned in Maryland, or did it come, say, from the martial arts studio he was putting up in
Virginia. Where did the money come from is a big question.
GRACE: On that vain of reasoning, Joe Johns, the spot where the fire, the Porsche, the family car was burned, is close to the Ironworks, and the
place where the person was running possibly with 40 grand in a package, hoodie, black clothing. That was near the Ironworks as well. American
Ironworks. Also, another thing to think about, Joe Johns, another line of investigation, he had been working at American Ironworks for years and
years, and years. OK? The martial arts thing was new. That would leave me to look more into the martial arts startup business and the people
involved in that. He`s been with the Ironworks for a long time and nothing like this has ever happened.
I want to go to Dr. Michele Dupre, forensic pathologist. The bodies were burned. What can we learn?
DUPRE: Nancy, first condolences to the family. But actually, we can learn a lot from a burned body. Most house fires do not get high enough in
heat to destroy all of the evidence. We can often learn the cause of death. We can determine injuries, pre-mortem injuries. We can also
distinguish those from injuries that happened during the fire.
GRACE: Dr. Dupre, how would we be able to tell if the little boy`s body has been burned, as they keep saying beyond recognition, if and how he
was tortured?
DUPRE: We may be able to tell by any broken bones. There may also be deep tissue that was not burned. And we can still see injuries in that
deep tissue.
GRACE: What about evidence of duct tape possibly on the parents bodies?
DUPRE: Yes. Absolutely. There will be some type of residue. There may be a sticky substance and we`ll be able to tell that.
GRACE: Another issue, Michael Boar, WOAI, what can you tell me about one of these perps possibly wearing a safety vest?
BOARD: It`s very sketchy right now. There is some surveillance footage of a person running from the vehicle, that stolen Porsche of the
family. It`s really hard to tell right now. They are looking, maybe the hope is that maybe somebody else on the street -- these are incredibly
expensive homes on the street. Many of them have sophisticated security systems. The hope is maybe somebody else on the street may have gotten a
better picture of the person speeding off in that stolen Porsche.
[20:40:00]
GRACE: Let me give the tip line is 202-727-9099. The reward has now climbed to $100,000. 202-727-9099.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Live to Brandywine. When your child gets a substitute teacher, who are these people? Tonight, reports a substitute teacher
unleashes on middle school students, beating the children viciously with a belt. It`s all caught on Youtube video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[ screams ]
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I saw kids on the floor. Desks overturned. Kids who have been loud and yelling.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can see the man in a reddish shirt whipping the children with what appears to be a belt.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I am just imagining my 7-year-old twins running or worse, trapped under one of the desks as some person they don`t even know is
beating them with a belt, belt-whipping them. This video, good gravy, is from Youtube. Boys and girls alike being beaten as they run. Sarah
Westwood, Washington Examiner, what in the hay is happening?
[20:45:42]
WESTWOOD: What`s interesting is that we don`t really know exactly what is going on in that video. It`s a very short clip. There have been
theories that perhaps the substitute teacher was attempting to break up a fight between two students seen on the ground, and there have also been
theories that he, just like you said, was unleashing a fury on them as they might have been trying to escape. Prince George`s County school district
has kept their mouths shut about what went on here so far. The man has been removed from the classroom, but we don`t know many details about what
took place inside.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, joining me city attorney for the town of Warner Robbins, Jim Elliott. Also with me, defense attorney Areva Martin.
OK, let`s look at the video again. Jim Elliott, you`re the city attorney for very, very big town. This video from Youtube. What in the hay is
going on? Hey, there`s no fight still going on. He`s still hitting them with the belt. Jim, what do you do?
JIM ELLIOTT, CITY ATTORNEY: Looks like he`s totally out of control. I mean, these are not big teenagers. These are 13, 12-year-old children.
It appears to be totally inappropriate.
GRACE: What`s going to happen? Because this is a substitute teacher? We`re in a fact finding process. I`m not ready to fight with you two yet.
I don`t know the whole story. But Jim, the school is the one that picks the sub. I`ve asked questions where my twins go to school, like who are
your subs? Where do they come from? What are their credentials? Where do they get road tested before you throw my twins in the room with them?
You`re seeing video from Youtube. Jim, where do the subs come from?
ELLIOTT: I think all systems have different methods of selection. That`s part of the process they are required to go through is to screen the
individuals. I thought it was interesting the reporter indicates the school system won`t talk. They won`t talk because they are concerned about
liability.
GRACE: I bet they won`t, Jim Elliott. Areva Martin, your turn. What`s your defense for this guy?
MARTIN: We don`t have all the facts, Nancy. Just like you said as you opened the piece, we`re still finding out what happened. We got this
really short video that looks horrible. I would admit that, but we don`t know--
GRACE: Not that short.
MARTIN: -- we`re hearing about the teacher trying to break up a fight. We`re hearing different stories from different people who were
present at the time that this happened.
GRACE: Areva, should I believe you or my lying eyes. Let`s see that video again.
MARTIN: You should believe that the video is just a clip.
GRACE: One, two, three, four. Four, four, five, six. Okay. This could be --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: No, look. I don`t see a fight going on. And he`s still hitting them, Areva Martin.
MARTIN: What you don`t see is what was going on in that classroom from this snippet. How many times have we watched a video, Nancy, and we
have gotten a little piece of the story and then we get the entire story, and what we saw in the video didn`t tell the whole story? All we`re saying
is get the facts. Interview everyone that was in that classroom and find out what was going on.
GRACE: Areva Martin, did you see a belt?
MARTIN: I see a belt.
GRACE: Did you see a grown man belt whipping students with a belt? This is not a corporal punishment state. Jim Elliott, there are 19 states
in the union that allow corporal punishment, and this is not one of them. So regardless of whether two students are having an argument or a fight
even, even so, in this state they are not allowed corporal punishment. Boom.
ELLIOTT: That`s right. The other thing that occurred to me is it`s not like an impulsive reaction to whatever might have been taking place.
The gentleman, if you want to call him that, took the time to take his belt off and begin this whole process. It was a pretty calculated reaction on
his part.
GRACE: Another thing. Let`s look at the video again. Let`s explore, as Areva Martin just said, because what if there was a fight and he was
breaking it up. To me it looks like he`s, that`s after it`s all over. Let`s wind it back up. .
[20:50:00]
Looks like he`s just belt whipping everybody. Okay. He`s going after everybody. Were they all in a fight? I don`t know. You`re seeing video
from Youtube. To Seth Meyers, clinical psychologist. I`d like to hear your opinion on this.
MEYERS: My opinion may surprise you a little, Nancy. Usually I am always pointing out the severe psychological traumas, but actually in this
case, if you look closely at it, I don`t believe that he is leaving marks. Yes, what he did is wrong.
GRACE: Did you just say he`s not leaving marks? Did you say that?
MEYERS: I would imagine that he`s not leaving marks on them.
GRACE: That is, put him up, please. I want to see Seth. Your litmus test is is the person scarred? Is there a mark? That is your litmus test?
What if they slapped a person in the face? Is that okay if they slapped a child in the face but did not leave a mark, is that OK in your book?
MEYERS: Here`s what I`m saying. What I`m saying is there is a teacher -- when we say there`s a teacher hitting students with a belt, we imagine
this is vicious and this is leaving marks. Actually, I don`t think it was that severe. Yes, I think it was wrong and crazy, but I don`t think that
it was that severe.
GRACE: Put him up. Seth Meyers, hold on, you are telling me in your mind, in your clinical psychologist out in LA mind, that it`s okay to beat
the child in the school if it doesn`t leave marks?
MEYERS: No, Nancy, you`re putting words in my mouth.
(CROSSTALK)
MEYERS: Listen to what I`m saying. Here is the important point, though. I think, because I do violence threat assessments in schools with
children, and one of the things that I find in Los Angeles schools, at least, is that a lot of times some small thing will happen, and then the
students erupt, they get so excited. Everybody gets so aroused. Then everything gets blown out of proportion.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:56:00]
GRACE: Live, Colorado, is a deadly sniper on the loose?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: John Jacoby (ph) was gunned down while riding his bike along county road 72 and 15. They discovered two bullet wounds.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was a homicide.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The FBI has joined in the search for the killer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: So far, two apparent victims. One was out riding a bicycle in a rural area. The other, a young lady, Cori Romero, shot in the neck
inside her vehicle.
To Miles Blumhardt, editor with the "Coloradoan." Thank you for being with us. What`s happening?
MILES BLUMHARDT, THE COLORADOAN: We`re all waiting for that -- for the answer to that question. All we know right now is we had one person
shot in the neck and suffered nonlife-threatening injuries a month ago, and then we have the fatal shooting of a bicyclist about five miles away.
GRACE: With me, Miles Blumhardt, also with me, Brian Gary, morning host of K-99. Also a friend of John Jacoby. Brian, thank you for being
with us. How close were these two incidents to each other?
BRIAN GARY, K99: They were just within miles from each other, which is the alarming part of it. It`s a quiet community. It`s a wonderful
community that these things just don`t happen in. When you have two instances this close together in that short of a period of time, it
certainly raises your suspicions as, could these be related or worse yet, is this a pattern of people just losing their minds here?
GRACE: Another issue, Brian Gary, morning host K-99, friend of John Jacoby, Brian, the issue is there were other shootings into cars that
didn`t kill anyone, several, like three or four, preceding this or around this time. What do we know about them, Brian?
GARY: There have been several instances of broken windows, broken car windows. There`s only as far as I know, one of them confirmed to have been
from a shooting, and that was Cori Romero. The others, a couple of the windows were suspicious of how they were broken and which windows were
broken. Others could be explained if there`s so much more traffic, construction, vehicles out on the road. Right now there`s such an
awareness of everything, that any broken window raises suspicion, but the majority of these are going to end up just being because of traffic
situations.
GRACE: You know what, I`ve been in a lot of heavy traffic, L.A., Atlanta, New York, and I`ve never had my window broken out. Christopher
Robinson, firearms expert, Chris Robinson, forensics, former crime lab director. Christopher, run through with me your thoughts on the
ballistics.
ROBINSON: The ballistics of the case strikes me like it could be a possible bb pellet gun striking the glass and bouncing off. If it was a
true sniper rifle, a .223 or a .308, it would just penetrate the glass and there would be bullets recovered. So far, there`s been no bullets
recovered so my knowledge.
GRACE: With me Christopher Robinson, firearms expert. Brian Gary, and Miles Blumhardt.
Let`s honor American hero, Army Captain Steve Voglezon, risking his life to rescue a North Carolina couple from a fiery, explosive crash.
Police say the driver of a Chrysler SUV crossing the median, colliding with the couple`s Acura. The Army captain off duty from Ft. Bragg, drives by,
uses an extinguisher to break the windows and drag the couple to safety. Army Captain Steve Voglezon, American hero.
Drew is next. See you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern, and until then, good night, friend.
END
