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Nancy Grace
DNA Points to D.C. Mansion Murderer. Aired 8-9:00p ET
Aired May 21, 2015 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. We go live as police reveal a murdered, CEO, his young wife, 10-year-old son and their maid,
quote, "bound and tortured" overnight in their D.C. mansion, then the house set on fire.
Who would torture and kill a mother, her little baby boy, her husband and their maid? The only clue emerging, video from the same neighborhood
revealing this mystery man shrouded in black, a hoodie covering his face. Is he the killer?
Reports the little boy was separated, isolated from Mommy, Daddy and housekeeper, then tortured to extort major money from Daddy.
Bombshell tonight. Police hone in on one of the killers, 34-year-old Daron Wint. How did they isolate him? DNA from his saliva left on the
pizza he orders from Domino`s and eats during the brutal murders.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A chilling piece of evidence in the deaths of a wealthy D.C. family and their housekeeper.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: DNA found on the crust of a Domino`s pizza that had been delivered to the house.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That Daron Dylon Wint is involved in the killings.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The manhunt is now expanding, and the suspect in this case has now been tracked.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, live, killer nurse. Police hone in on a trusted hospital nurse after connecting at least 24 victims to the same nurse,
patients murdered by deadly insulin injections.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) medical products with insulin and distribute around the ward (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No comment.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A nurse who described himself as evil used insulin to murder two patients at a hospital and poison 19 others.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How did you not notice him moaning and groaning in a fetal position for two hours?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No comment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. We go live, police revealing a murdered CEO, his young wife, their little son and their housekeeper, quote, "bound and
tortured" overnight in their D.C. home, then the house set on fire. Who would torture and kill a mother, her 10-year-old little boy, husband and
housekeeper?
In the last hours, police hone in on one of the killers, 34-year-old Daron Wint. Catch this. How do they isolate him? DNA from his saliva
left on that Domino`s pizza he orders and eats during the brutal murders.
Tonight, we also have information that he went so far as to wear gloves throughout the ordeal -- holding this family hostage, separating the
mother and the father and the housekeeper, masking-tape them, duct-tape them to chairs upright, take the little boy to another room, where the
parents can hear the little boy screaming as he`s tortured.
And during all this, he orders two large pizzas from Domino`s and eats them. He wears gloves so his fingerprints won`t be left behind, but what
he doesn`t count on is saliva.
Joe Johns, CNN correspondent, tell me about how police hone in on this guy. It`s my understanding that last night, he`s bunked up, he`s on the
run, sleeping at his girlfriend`s home. Police have just turned his father`s home upside-down, Joe.
JOE JOHNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That`s right, and he is on the run. Police tracked him, we`re told, to Brooklyn, New York. They still haven`t
been able to locate him. They have talked to his girlfriend. We`re told the girlfriend has said he does plan to give himself up. But so far, this
man, Daron Dylon Wint, age 34, has not given himself up.
And he`s the subject of an intense manhunt, Nancy, from both the United States Marshal`s Office, the New York Police Department, the D.C.
police department, and others out there looking for him, too, including the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, whose technician actually figured
out that they needed to get the saliva off of the pizza and then got a match.
GRACE: OK, let`s talk about that. Joining me from WTPO, Nick Ianelli, from Washington, D.C., thank you for being with us. Nick and Joe
Johns right there in front of the family home.
[20:05:00]What can you tell me about this guy wearing gloves during the hostage scenario and then forgetting he`s leaving DNA on the pizza
crust he leaves behind? And remember, two pizzas were ordered, two large pizzas. Police absolutely believe he did not act alone. There`s another
killer out there, Nick.
NICK IANELLI, WTPO (via telephone): ... remarkable parts of this investigation as it unfolds, this piece of pizza, apparently, with Daron
Wint`s DNA on the crust. And now, this pizza was delivered -- two pizzas from Domino`s were delivered to the home in northwest D.C. as this all
unfolded.
Now, the pizza delivery person did talk to police, according to law enforcement officials who are familiar with the investigation. That
delivery person spoke with authorities and said they never had any contact with anyone inside the home, that they dropped off those two pizzas, took
an envelope that was filled with cash that was left outside, and then left.
So this all happened -- the pizzas were delivered as this heinous crime was unfolding inside the home -- very remarkable situation that
someone went right up to the house and nothing was done about that.
GRACE: You know, that takes the level of calculation and cold-blooded murder to a new level, when as you`ve got the father and mother duct-taped
to a chair, and in the next, room you`re torturing the little boy so the Daddy can hear it, and trying to get more -- squeeze more and more money
out of him -- we know that the killers made off with about $40,000 -- while the father and mother are forced to hear their little boy scream in the
next room.
What more can you tell me, Joe Johns? Is it true, sources are reporting that the little boy absolutely was dead not by burning in the
fire, not by the fire, but by the torturing and the stab wounds because the inside of his lungs and esophagus and trach had no smoke inhalation.
JOHNS: That is the indication we`ve heard from sources. It`s been reported by some of the newspapers around town. But look, it`s also
important to say that the autopsy report has not been released. We know that there were stab wounds from sources. We know there was blunt force
trauma. We know that there was smoke. And there`s this allegation of torture, as well.
So the question is, what killed these victims, and precisely when, whether the boy was simply burned to try to cover up some of the evidence?
And apparently, authorities will (ph) still be able to find out as much as they did, Nancy.
GRACE: Michael Christian, what do we know about the cause of death on the little boy versus the parents?
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Well, Nancy, they -- it`s been reported that authorities have said that Philip, 10-year-
old Philip, had some of the worst injuries out of the four victims -- worst injuries as opposed to the three adults. We know he was found separately
from the other three. He was in a bed, found terribly burned. They were all in another room, sitting in chairs.
GRACE: What can you tell me, Michael Christian -- this home has a very extensive alarm and security system. Is it true -- reports are
surfacing that this guy was able to jam or record over the videocameras in the home? How did that -- what do we know about that? How did that
happen?
CHRISTIAN: We are seeing reports this afternoon, Nancy, or this evening -- excuse me -- that somehow, the security video -- we know there`s
at least two cameras at the home. Somehow, that security video was erased, is the word that we`re hearing.
GRACE: OK, joining me right now, Ben Levitan, telecommunications and security expert out of Raleigh. Ben, how do you do that? How can this guy
-- that`s why the police kept going over and over and over the security video from the home, and they weren`t getting anything.
They did, through good police work, get the guy`s saliva off the pizza crust. This is after he wore gloves the whole time so he wouldn`t leave
behind fingerprints. They obviously compared him up to the DNA data bank, and with his criminal arrest history, that was an easy two and two equals
four.
What about erasing the security camera?
BEN LEVITAN, TELECOMMUNICATIONS AND SECURITY EXPERT (via telephone): Nancy, there`s pretty much two ways you record video with these home
security -- where you record it and it stays in the house on a DVR. Just like you`d have to tape your show every night, you can easily erase it.
Anyone who -- you know, anyone who knows how to run a DVR or a VCR could have erased it, Nancy.
There are other alarm systems where it would transmit back to a central server. And if it was that type of alarm, that type of recording,
we would still have the recording. So obviously, either the person -- you know, this perpetrator either knew how to erase it, or he forced the home
owner to erase it. It`s not that difficult, Nancy.
[20:10:04]GRACE: OK, this is what I don`t understand. How would you go in and erase the video? You have everybody sitting around the house,
people walking in and out, people in the kitchen, people watching TV. How do you go into your home security system and erase the video? Explain?
LEVITAN: Well, it`s just like erasing files off a computer. It`s a mini-computer, a DVR. And there are ways to -- you know, there are ways
that are probably -- there may be a button right on the device that says videos, erase videos. That simple. Or he could have forced the homeowner
to do it because you know people in the normal use of their machine do want to erase videos. So he could have forced the homeowner to do this, Nancy,
or he could have done it himself.
Like we talked about yesterday, he may have walked in with a device that blocked all the cell phones in the house from transmitting so the
video would not transmit to a central location.
GRACE: Everyone, police have managed to hone in on one of multiple killers that took this family there in their own home hostage, not happy
until the mother, the father, the housekeeper and the little boy all dead.
Now, according to reports, the little boy did not die of smoke inhalation. According to reports, he did not have smoke in his lungs. He
was killed before the fire.
So Nick Ianelli joining us, WTPO, and Joe Johns, CNN senior correspondent there in front of the family home -- Nick, what can you tell
us about this guy? What about his arrest record? What do we know? I mean, have you seen his Facebook friends? It`s quite a menagerie.
IANELLI: Well, Daron Wint, a 34-year-old man from suburban Maryland. Police released a few details about him. He has a record in suburban
Maryland, in Prince Georges County, which is right next to Washington, D.C. He has a record that includes charges of domestic violence, traffic
offenses, assault and theft, nothing that would reach this magnitude of what he`s accused of right now.
And police have been offering a reward of up to $25,000 for information that might lead to him. And as you said, he`s been now tracked
to the Brooklyn, New York, area.
And D.C. police chief Cathy Lanier has said there is a large volume of evidence and leads that the department is going through, has been
collecting at the crime scene all week long. It`s been one week since the incident, and it`s been an active crime scene ever since. This is a large-
scale investigation.
Not much is known about the man. But certainly a lot of information quickly accumulating as we speak. And a key piece of information that the
D.C. police department released is that this man -- he worked at the business where the man who was killed -- he was the CEO of that business.
So this was not a random crime. The man who was killed, Savvas Savopoulos, he is the CEO of American Iron Works, a big company in the D.C. region.
And this suspect who`s now on the run, Daron Wint -- he at some point worked there in some capacity.
So there is that business connection, which was not a random crime. There was a tie between the suspect and the victim -- certainly, a key
piece of information released by the D.C. department today, the police department.
And that`s what we know about this man. He`s not a remarkable man in any sense like that. But apparently, he had a business connection with a
criminal record in suburban Maryland, and that`s about all we know about him.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:17:51]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A bizarre twist in the brutal quadruple murder-arson mystery.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thirty-four-year-old Daron Dylon Wint now wanted on first degree murder charges while armed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And this is not the first time, it appears, this man has been in trouble. He`s faced multiple charges over the years of
theft, assault and (INAUDIBLE) sexual (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It does not appear that this was just a random crime, that there is a connection through the business of the suspect and
the Savopoulos family business.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I still in shock! I can`t believe it!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can`t understand why God saved my life -- around 9:56 AM, and they say, I want to make sure you do not come today. I
don`t know why.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That is the one housekeeper that was told, Don`t come to work. Why? Because, obviously, the family was being held hostage in their own
home. Police tonight honing in on a 33-year-old man -- 34-year-old -- Daron Dylon Wint.
Straight back to Joe Johns, standing there in front of the home, CNN senior correspondent. Are those crime scene techs behind you?
JOHNS: They are. And those crime scene technicians have been here just about every day since that fire occurred. They`ve been scouring
through this house, taking a lot of stuff out of there.
As you know, probably the biggest piece of evidence that we`re aware of so far, that a piece of pizza crust that they found from Domino`s. We
have confirmed from Domino`s that, yes, somebody ordered two pizzas to come over here to this house around the time these family members were being
held by an individual or individuals inside the house. And that`s how they got the DNA match on this man that they`re now searching for.
So likely more evidence inside, authorities obviously checking the burn patterns, checking for anything else they can get to try to put
together the case in the event this individual is brought to justice soon.
[20:20:04]GRACE: To Nick Ianelli, WTPO. Where do police think the perp is at this hour?
IANELLI: Well, police have been searching a home in Brooklyn, in the New York area. Detectives spoke to one of his girlfriends, Daron Wint`s
girlfriend, who lives there. She says that she was speaking to Wint at some point between the time when he left suburban Maryland and went to the
New York City area. And she tells investigators, according to law enforcement officials, that Wint was planning to turn himself in.
Now, D.C. police chief Cathy Lanier at a news conference says that she hopes that at some point in the very new future they do get Wint in
custody. She says there`s a wide-reaching search for Wint up and down the East Coast, now centered on that Brooklyn, New York, area, and that there`s
a $25,000 reward for him, a lot of incentive for people to come forward and say where he is.
But that`s where the search is centered right now, in the Brooklyn, New York, area with many, many authorities from the D.C. region and from
the New York area searching for Daron Wint at this hour.
GRACE: You know, another thing -- Michael Christian, is it true that police have also honed in on Wint`s father`s home? We have video of them
actually searching the home. There you go. And if you could pull back and let me see what the homes like, as well?
What do we know about that? And is it true, Michael Christian, that Daron Wint apparently may have slept at his girlfriend`s house? And is it
true that he was lounging and, quote, "relaxing" after the murders at his father`s home?
CHRISTIAN: That has been reported, Nancy, by neighbors. And you have to realize the father`s home is only two miles from where this torched car
was recovered. So it is definitely in the area. And police had said previously they thought the suspect knew that area, was very familiar with
that area. This would seem to prove that.
GRACE: With me, special guest Robin Ficker, former attorney for the suspect, Daron Wint, has repped him in six minor criminal cases and traffic
cases. Robin, thank you for being with us.
ROBIN FICKER, FMR. ATTORNEY FOR SUSPECT: Thank you. I represented him in six different cases in 2005 and 2006, some of which you showed on
your monitor. However, there was no finding of guilt in any of those six cases.
I think this is a group grope, a rush to judgment. They`ve got the wrong guy. I knew him to be a very nice, gentle person, a student. He
would never do anything about this. They should be looking for someone who has a history...
GRACE: Sir...
FICKER: ... of torturing animals or other people.
GRACE: Mr. Ficker, I appreciate what you`re doing. You`ve got an excellent reputation there in the D.C. area. But how can you argue with
the fact that police sources have revealed your former client`s DNA is on the pizza that was ordered in the middle of the hostage crisis? He was
there enjoying pizza, and the people are dead! The little boy was tortured and killed, Mr. Ficker.
FICKER: Well, you know, a young lady drank a cup of coffee in my office this morning. Her DNA is on that cup. That doesn`t mean she
committed a crime in my office later on in the day.
GRACE: Oh, well, was your office full of dead bodies?
FICKER: Grace, I bet you have the DNA of other people who don`t live in your house somewhere in your house.
GRACE: I`m sure I do. But guess what?
FICKER: Many DNA...
GRACE: My home is not a crime scene, that I know of, Ficker.
FICKER: Many...
GRACE: And I hear what you`re saying. I agree with you. DNA can be in a home, DNA not belonging to those living there. But the timing of your
client`s DNA -- he is in the home ordering and eating pizza at the time they are being held hostage, that they are tortured, that they are killed,
Mr. Ficker!
FICKER: Who did the DNA analysis? I`ve had many cases where the DNA analysis was thrown out of court because it wasn`t done accurately.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:28:05]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A bizarre twist in the brutal quadruple murder-arson mystery in an upscale D.C. neighborhood.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It does not appear that this was just a random crime, that there is a connection.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The break in the case coming not from the grainy surveillance video released by police days ago, but from DNA found on the
crust of a Domino`s pizza.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Right out to the suspect`s attorney, who has represented him on six previous arrests, and he is telling us that he was not found guilty
on those arrests, D.C. attorney Robin Ficker.
Mr. Ficker, evidence is also emerging that your client, Daron Wint, also watched the patterns of this family, when they came in, when they
left, when they went to bed at night, when they woke up in the morning so he could time his attack.
That takes cold-blooded calculation. That takes an intentional act. Would you not agree with that, Mr. Ficker?
FICKER: He worked for them. He may have seen some comings and goings. I`ve had many cases where DNA analysis was tossed right out the
courtroom window.
GRACE: OK, you`re back on DNA. And methinks thou doth protest too much. In other words, you`re bringing up DNA when I didn`t even say
anything about it. And I know why, because you`re worried. You`re worried because your guy, the guy you represented, is in there enjoying a pizza
while people are either murdered or about to be murdered all around him.
And Mr. Ficker, there are also reports that your former client, Daron Wint, then went to his father`s home, who I believe had taken out a TRO
against him because he was so afraid his son, your former client, and kicked back and relaxed after killing this family, according to police.
FICKER: Grace, I`m starting to think that you believe Daron Wint may have been involved in this incident. I know he`s not the type of guy to do
anything like this. They should start looking for people who have tortured animals and tortured other people who are in jail or who have recently been
in jail. He`s a gentle student. He would never do anything like this. Can you say not guilty? That`s what anyone is going to say when this case
is over.
GRACE: Why do you insist on saying he`s a gentle student? He`s not a gentle student. He has apparently just renewed his green card. He`s from
Guiana, I believe. He went into the Marines but didn`t complete the training so he`s never a Marine.
I don`t know exactly what he does for a living. He says he`s self- employed. But I also know his father took out -- reportedly took out a TRO against his own son. What about that, Mr. Ficker?
FICKER: Every young man argues with his dad at one time or another. I`m sure that that TRO was withdrawn. I`m sure that dad loves the son. If
you talk to the dad, I`m sure he`ll tell you that.
GRACE: I`m sure he does love the son but I`m sure he`s questioning it right now because police have just finished tearing his house upside down
looking for evidence of your former client, sir.
FICKER: I think the police should be spending their time looking for the real killers, rather than homing in on someone who hasn`t done a thing
wrong. This is a nice guy. He`s the kind of guy you wouldn`t mind going out to lunch with your grandmother.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:35:56] UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A chilling piece of evidence in the deaths of a wealthy D.C. family and their housekeeper.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: DNA found on the crust of a Domino`s Pizza. It had been delivered to the house.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: That Daron Dylon Wint is involved in the killing.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The manhunt is now expanding and the suspect in this case has now been tracked.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: But remember even though police are honing on this guy, they constantly refer to killers. And two large orders for pizza that night.
Police referring to killers. I do not believe this guy, Daron Wint, acted alone.
Unleash the lawyers, Jay Abt, Robert Schalk, and joining us, special guest attorney, former attorney for the suspect Robin Ficker out of D.C.
Jay Abt, one thing that`s very disturbing, as all three of you gentlemen know from having tried so many cases, a jury may take into
account actions after the incident such as erasing the video of the home`s security device.
What about that, Jay Apt? To think, to have the wherewithal to think after you`ve murdered four people, including a little boy, to erase the
home video? How you going to get around that in court?
JAY ABT, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I`ll tell you how I`d get around it. I absolutely believe that this man Wint is not guilty. And I`ll tell you
why. I think as an employee of the homeowner, he was also a victim of the crime. In other words, the other people who were perpetrating this crime
held him hostage, along with the homeowners. And he just narrowly luckily escaped the crime. That`s why his DNA is at the scene. That would explain
it away. And he, too, could be a victim of being kidnapped and held hostage and narrowly escaped with his life and somehow escaped the people
who perpetrated this crime.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Kidnapped, held hostage and forced to eat Domino`s Pizza. I don`t think that`s really going to be a felony.
ABT: Well, I don`t -- you know, they may have ordered the pizza to feed the family and the other hostages and that`s what I would argue. Just
because DNA is at the scene does not mean he`s guilty of this crime. And I would argue the other perpetrators are the ones who did it.
GRACE: To Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst and author of "Dealbreakers." I hardly think that perpetrators who are torturing,
cutting, beating a little boy are going to feed them pizza. All right. That didn`t happen. This guy is not a victim.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": How is he going to eat pizza while his hands are duct taped and tied to a chair? I
really don`t think so.
You know, Nancy, Joe Johns has reporting on this. This is so important. Because he mentioned that the guy was an employee in the family
business. And what that tells me is that the motive for the crime was not just extraction of money, but envy, resentment towards this family who had
so much. This was a prolonged torture on a little boy, while his parents were in the room next door. Duct taped and tied to a chair. I wonder how
long the little boy suffered.
I think the perpetrator was extremely envious of this little boy of all the luxuries and the privileges and the blessed life that this little
boy had. And he targeted the family because he took pleasure in torturing the boy. Hearing his screams and cries, knowing that his employer and
employer`s wife were in the room next door. And that`s why he went and lounged at his father`s house afterwards.
He was so satisfied. He was so pleased with himself. That is not a crime just to get $40,000. That is a crime because you have a sadistic
streak and you enjoy --
GRACE: Right.
MARSHALL: -- seeing other people suffer.
GRACE: To Matthew Horace --
MARSHALL: This is funny, Nancy, if he --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Law enforcement and security expert, senior vice president of FJC Security.
Matthew, question, do you believe this guy acted alone? If so, why?
MATTHEW HORACE, LAW ENFORCEMENT AND SECURITY EXPERT: Well, I don`t believe he acted alone. If you look at the amount of food that he ordered,
there were four victims. It`s a heinous, horrible crime. There was most probably someone else there.
[20:40:06] And I can tell you that once we collected his DNA evidence, now that gave the investigators a broader reach to look throughout the home
during the arson investigation and at the father`s home to both match DNA, find things that he may have touched that when he didn`t have the gloves
on. And there very well maybe more DNA at that scene.
GRACE: You know, I want to talk about that 40 grand. To Joe Johns standing by in front of the family home, and Nick Iannelli, reporter, WTPO.
Joe Johns, multiple sources say that the killers knew the $40,000 was or was going to be delivered and that that was the motive. What do you
know?
JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Yes. That`s our understanding that the $40,000 was in all likelihood part of a money
motive. And they took the money essentially and ran.
Look, there`s one other point I just wanted to make, Nancy, before I`m off your show. And that is that the police chief has said that the police
believe there is more evidence than just the DNA. In fact, they believe that this individual who was seen running on surveillance video is, in
fact, Daron Wint. So there is apparently some other evidence that leads them to this individual besides just the DNA. The question, of course, was
what was that individual on the surveillance video carrying at the time he was picked up on the camera. And the authorities have not been able to
tell us that yet.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:45:46] GRACE: Killer nurse. Police hone in on a trusted hospital nurse after connecting at least 24 victims to that same nurse. Patients
murdered by deadly insulin injections.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED POLICE: How did you not notice him moaning and groaning in a fetal position for two hours?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No comment.
UNIDENTIFIED POLICE: Is it because you knew why he was in distress?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No comment.
UNIDENTIFIED POLICE: Because you had poisoned him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No comment.
UNIDENTIFIED POLICE: With insulin.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No comment.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Prosecutors say he is a narcissistic psychopath who enjoyed watching his victims suffer and would give patients
contaminated medicine or tamper with their prescriptions to, quote, "shut them up."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Candace Trunzo, senior news editor with dailymail.com. You know, when you`re in the hospital you`ve got to trust
those doctors and nurses. Imagine the last thing you see before you die is your nurse, hovering over your hospital bed. Little did family and friends
know this trusted nurse is a killer nurse with 24 victims to his credit.
Candace Trunzo, what happened?
CANDACE TRUNZO, SENIOR NEWS EDITOR, DAILYMAIL.COM: Well, what happened is when you have a nurse here who violated the main principle of
healthcare professionals, do no harm. Instead of doing no harm, he did every harm. And there were 24 victims involved here. He injected insulin
to their saline bags and (INAUDIBLE). And then he didn`t administer it, he had another nurse administer it. So it was very, very hard to trace back
to him.
GRACE: I was wondering, Candace Trunzo, dailymail.com, how, after three or four deaths, after three or four victims, they wouldn`t figure out
something was going wrong and trace it back to this one nurse. But now that you said that, Candace Trunzo, I get it.
Dr. Joye M. Carter is with us, chief forensic pathologist, Marion County, and author of "I Speak for the Dead."
Dr. Carter, thanks for being with us. What does an overdose of insulin do to your body? I didn`t realize that could kill you.
DR. JOYE M. CARTER, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Oh, yes. It really starves the body of the energy that it needs by using glucose. It really
metabolizes the glucose out of your system. It can cause the brain to swell, cause fatal injuries with herniations. People die from metabolic
disorders. We need glucose and we need oxygen. When the brain (INAUDIBLE) on this because it will actually increase circulation and you can end up
having --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: OK. Dr. Carter, Dr. Carter. You got to help me out, Dr. Carter. I`m just a JD, you`re the MD. And you`re going through all of
this medical diagnosis. Break it down for me, Doctor. Do the people suffer? Are they in pain? When you get an overdose of insulin, what does
that do to you? Do you just go to sleep and never wake up and have a peaceful death? Does your stomach hurt, do your limbs hurt? Do you have a
horrible headache? Do you froth at the mouth? What happens?
CARTER: The people actually suffer from low glucose, low blood sugar. And they can have severe headaches, they can have altered mental status.
They can have shut down of their organs and they can certainly die.
GRACE: Do you know what`s interesting on what you said, Dr. Carter? And I need to follow it up real quickly so I can understand. You said
altered mental status.
Unleash the lawyers, Jay Abt out of Atlanta, Robert Schalk out of New York.
Robert Schalk, so when these patients begin complaining to their families, their spouses, their relatives to the nurses, I don`t feel right.
And then she just said, altered mental status. Nobody knew what they were talking about. Nobody could understand what they were saying. They were
in an altered mental status, they were dying, Schalk. Let`s hear your best defense you`ve got for the killer nurse, the devil nurse.
ROBERT SCHALK, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: In reviewing the facts as they`ve been laid out to me, this is a strictly circumstantial case. He makes no
admissions of guilt. There are no direct witnesses indicating that he took the insulin and put it into the bags. There is no direct videotape of him
administering the insulin. So with all that, I mean, they`re just building it circumstantially and I know you`re going to say circumstantial evidence
is just as good as direct evidence.
[20:50:11] GRACE: CNN Heroes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALLIE TORGAN, CNN HERO: I`ve been riding since age 4. I will never forget my father when he let go of my seat and I was there on my own, and
that was 70 years ago. A lot of kids have never really left the city. To them, everything is concrete.
Is everybody excited?
I decided to take kids who`ve never had my kind of experience on these mountain bike rides.
OK, you guys, let`s hit the road.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was trying at school. I was getting straight F`s. I got expelled. On these long bike rides, I kind of feel like it
clears my mind.
TORGAN: Looking good.
I`ve been doing this for almost 30 years. You bring them where there are no buildings. It is like, wow, I didn`t know that this exists. And
then we have our Earn-a-Bike program where kids in the community come after school.
What`s wrong with it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The chain.
TORGAN: So the chain`s loose?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
TORGAN: They learn how to work on bikes and they earn points toward bikes of their own.
Oh, that looks great.
They learn good job skills.
This bike`s getting quite an overhaul.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now I have A`s and B`s. They`re like my guide to a better life.
TORGAN: There is opportunity to see that, yes, I have been able to accomplish what I thought I couldn`t. It is not just biking. We are
imparting life lessons.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:55:58] GRACE: Take a listen to this interrogation tape.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`ve always mentioned him because you took him for the CAD test in the early hours of the morning from him. Was in that
night? And he was in bed six opposite -- he says he saw -- this male in bed in distress. He describes this male, he says he was in a fetal
position moaning and groaning, and he says it was some two hours before his condition was noticed.
That`s not how you`re describing it. In fact, what you say on the 23rd in your statement 2011 there was nothing about this patient that gave
me concern. He moved to the bed himself. Went to the toilet OK, was walking by himself. He moved his IV with him. He was perfectly fine. He
has not caused me concern during the night. He`s mentally alert. He knew what he was doing. This is as much as I can remember. This is clearly
contradictory to what -- is saying, isn`t it? How do you explain this?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No comment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: You know what, if I was being accused of murdering my patients, I wouldn`t sit there going no comment.
You know, Matt Zarrell, it`s just not the fact that he sits there like a nut on a log as police are confronting him with their evidence. What can
you tell me about the VIM diagram police constructed to show there was no way this guy could not have been the killer devil nurse?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Yes, Nancy, we`re going to show this to you right now. They showed that his shift patterns during the
times of the attacks showed he was the only person on duty at the time of the attacks so acknowledge an opportunity to contaminate the drips of the
ampoules. You`ll see this diagram. It shows with all the different people that were poisoned, he was the X factor, he was the only one that had
access to everyone at that time.
GRACE: Look at this. There`s no way, if you look at the numbers, if you look at the victims, that this guy is not involved in these murders.
Candace Trunzo, senior news editor, dailymail.com, explain to me how they finally pull this case together and why they`re so convinced it`s one
nurse. It`s a devil nurse. It`s a killer.
TRUNZO: Well, there was a smoking gun here. There was one piece of evidence against him. It was a blood sample taken from one of the victims.
The nurse took the sample at 6:00 in the morning, recorded the patient as being responsive and then an hour later the sample proved that he was in a
deep coma. That was the evidence that started the ball rolling. And when they started looking at these shift patterns and the fact that he was
present at the time of all the attacks, they knew they had him.
GRACE: You know, Matt Zarrell, isn`t there a very incriminating letter?
ZARRELL: There is. Police found a letter which the nurse titled as the "Bitter Nurse Confession." It was actually found in his home. He
wrote things such as, "They thought I`m a nice person but there`s a devil in me." And that there were certain things that he would take to the
grave. He says, "Still inside of me I can feel the anger that anytime it will explode. Just still hanging on, can still control it, but if I will
be pushed, they are going to be sorry."
GRACE: We remember American hero, Nebraska detective, Kerrie Orozco, the first female Omaha police officer killed in the line of duty, a seven-
year veteran worked in a gang unit set to go on maternity leave just hours before her death to care for her newborn baby Olivia.
A boys and girls club baseball coach, special Olympics volunteer, leaves behind widower Hector and their baby girl, two stepchildren.
Kerrie Orozco, American hero.
Drew up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
