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Nancy Grace
Boy Dead from Caffeine; Baby Dies from Rat Bite; 61-year-old Man Snaps Pictures of 13-year-old at Target; Tots Left Alone in Horror House. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired May 28, 2015 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, Lake Stevens suburbs, child abuse -- used diapers, scattered trash, soiled mattresses, the filthy
house where three young children, one just a few months old, abandoned by their parents -- no heat, no food, padlocked from the outside in, the three
young children, including an 11-month-old infant, all alone, locked in a filthy, rundown house, starving, shivering in temperatures as low as 40
degrees.
Two of the tots found huddled under a single blanket, the other, the infant, body temperature 94 degrees, in the throes of hypothermia.
Bombshell tonight. Oh, yes, we locate Mommy and Daddy, and we want justice!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can see all the garbage there blocking the front door.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The children, ages 7, 3 and 11 months old, were locked inside with no food or heat.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The school district did call child protective services three times.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) feces and stink!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And live, LaGrange (ph), Ohio, a mother and father devastated when their boy, a straight-A student, voted prom king, varsity wrestler, headed
to college, found dead in his own home from caffeine. Yes, caffeine! Simple, innocent caffeine. But the boy is dead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A good student, athlete.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a pharmaceutical-grade product.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don`t know why he decided to ingest it. This is wrong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And Gillesberg (ph), Pennsylvania, a tiny tot, 6 months old, raced to the hospital. Nothing could be done. Landon (ph) dies. Tonight,
police claim it`s all because the baby`s parents keeping live rats in the home to feed an assortment of deadly pet snakes. COD -- cause of death --
rat bite.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A baby boy is rushed to a hospital emergency room, but despite everyone`s best efforts, the child does not survive, the result of
an infection called rat bite fever. It turns out that the baby`s parents had several pet snakes and were reportedly also raising rats to use as
snake food.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And Oregon, a 61-year-old perv allegedly snaps upskirt photos of a 13-year-old little girl in the local Target. But guess what? He`s walking
scot-free! Taking upskirt photos of little girls in Target is legal in Oregon!
Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight, live to Lake Stevens suburbs, child abuse -- used diapers, trash, soiled, filthy mattresses, the horrific house where three
little children, one just a few months old, abandoned by their parents, no heat, no food, padlocked from the outside in, the three young children,
including an 11-month-old baby infant, all alone, 11 months old, locked in a filthy, rundown house, starving, shivering, temperatures as low as 40
degrees, two of the tots found huddled together under a single blanket, the other baby, body temperature 94 degrees, in the throes of hypothermia. Oh,
yes, they`re padlocked from the outside in.
And we find Mommy and Daddy. They`re nearby at a casino! Tonight, we want justice!
Frank Morano joining me, radio talk show host, "The Answer." Frank, I don`t know if you can see the videos of this home, but there is feces. It
looks like adult or animal feces on the floor! The children are just wandering around. The temperatures have dipped low, low, low, and the
babies are there all alone, locked in? They can`t even get out, Frank?
FRANK MORANO, HOST, "THE ANSWER" (via telephone): Nancy, you couldn`t treat an animal like this and get away with it. This is something -- what
Mr. Dorson and Ms. Foley did to their three children here is something that be sent in picture and handbook form to every parent in the country as a
textbook example of what should not be permitted in terms of parenting. This is outrageous!
GRACE: You know, it`s bad enough -- it`s bad enough, Marc Klaas, to leave your children alone, all right? To top it off, to go to a gambling casino,
all right? That`s where we find them, at a gambling casino -- to leave your children alone, one of them an infant, but then in these
circumstances? You wouldn`t leave an animal like that.
[20:05:20]MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: Well, it`s subhuman conditions, Nancy. I`ve encountered things like that throughout my career,
and it`s always under the worst possible circumstances.
These parents, beyond the fact that they allow their children to live in squalor, have absolutely no moral compass. They`re drug addicts. They`re
thieves. They`re felons. They treat their children like abandoned animals. It`s a terrible situation. The good news is that the children
are still alive.
GRACE: OK, I want to see the parents again because when you see them, Mark Dorson, Amanda Foley, they look perfectly normal. And if they were working
in your office or you were somewhere with them at the Target or the grocery store, you`d think nothing of it. Look at them. But their home belies
their appearance.
OK, listen to what they had to say to defend themselves.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you think this is just blown out of proportion?
MARK DORSON, FATHER: I think bad timing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
DORSON: I think my house never, ever, ever looks like that.
AMANDA FOLEY, MOTHER: But I mean, what am I supposed to do, take our kids and live on the streets where they`re not going to be warm?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Honestly, Amanda, that would have probably been safer.
FOLEY: He`s a very quiet baby, though, usually, like that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, he was also 94 degrees.
DORSON: And I call bull(EXPLETIVE DELETED) on that, and I repeat, bull(EXPLETIVE DELETED), because that little boy is chill, relaxed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you honestly look me in the face and say that their best odds of survival would have been with you and Mark in that house?
FOLEY: Not in that house, no.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK, wait. He said the baby was chill, relaxed when he was just chill-axing (ph) at 94 degrees, an infant baby? Look at this home! Look
at this!
To Dr. Bill Manion, hypothermia with an infant, a tiny baby, the body was down to 94 and dropping, and they say, Oh, he`s always quiet. He`s just a
very chill baby. That`s a bad use of words.
DR. BILL MANION, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST (via telephone) Yes. That baby would have been dead within hours. The body naturally keeps its own
temperature at 98 degrees, and that type of profound hypothermia will lead to death probably in hours, 8 to 12 hours, I would say.
GRACE: I want to take a tour of this home, Liz. Let`s see the video of where these children were padlocked in. This is the home where Mommy and
Daddy leave three children locked, no food, no heat. They had been gone we don`t even know how long. We finally find them at a nearby gambling
casino. Feces, animal or adult-looking feces on the floor, all over the walls, nothing to eat. Look at the yard. They leave their children like
that.
Now, according to the mom and dad, Frank Morano, they say -- radio talk show host with "The Answer" -- they say it was just bad timing. What`s
that, bad timing?
MORANO: Nancy, first of all, the father claims the house never looked like that...
GRACE: There`s the padlock, Frank. Hold on. We`re showing the viewers the padlock.
MORANO: The house was in a state of disrepair even before they moved in. The house was in such poor condition that after the children were taken
away, it was prohibited from humans living in it after they left. I`m not buying it for a second!
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, joining me to night, Alex Sanchez, defense attorney out of New York, and Kirby Clements, defense attorney out of
Atlanta.
All right, Sanchez, what`s your best defense? If this is not child abuse and neglect, I don`t know what is.
ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you know, I`m disturbed at this, but I`m more disturbed...
GRACE: You`re disturbed.
SANCHEZ: ... and I want to see justice done at what happened to the government. Don`t we have a government in this case? They were notified
that...
GRACE: Put him up!
SANCHEZ: ... there was something going on at that house. How come they didn`t go to the house, investigate it, enter the house and take the
children away?
GRACE: Well, actually, Kirby what we`re talking -- Kirby and Alex, what we`re talking about is the parents padlocking their children in the home
and leaving them. I`m sure, Alex Sanchez, that what you want to do is say, Don`t look at the house, don`t look at the parents, look at the government.
It`s their fault? But the government is not charged with raising these children. They didn`t padlock the children in a house of horrors and leave
them to starve.
SANCHEZ: No, but you`re saying you want to see justice.
GRACE: Yes, I do.
SANCHEZ: You want the parents prosecuted, fine.
GRACE: Yes, I do.
SANCHEZ: What about government? We hire social workers, we hire police, we hire investigators to look into these type of problems. Where were they
when you need them?
GRACE: You know what? I don`t know. I don`t know where they were. But I know this. They`re not the ones that are responsible for cleaning and
mopping that house and cleaning the bathroom, Kirby Clements. You`re not going to get the police department to come clean the bathroom. Is that
what you want?
KIRBY CLEMENTS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No, Nancy, and I agree with you. But I think that one of the things that you have to focus on is the fact that
they did the best that they could. These people clearly have a problem. The mother, I believe, uses meth...
[20:10:07]GRACE: They were at a gambling casino!
CLEMENTS: They have a meth addiction. These people are pitiful. They were living there themselves, and the fact that they as adults could live
there...
GRACE: They padlocked their children in there!
CLEMENTS: ... as opposed to-...
GRACE: They locked their children in!
CLEMENTS: They didn`t leave them on the streets. They didn`t leave them on the streets.
GRACE: Put them up! Are you telling me those are my two choices in parenting? You can either leave them in a house of horrors or you can
leave them on the street?
CLEMENTS: I`m saying...
GRACE: How about clean up the house, get a job and take care of your children?
(CROSSTALK)
CLEMENTS: That sounds great, Nancy, but it wasn`t their reality.
GRACE: ... the feces off the floor, Kirby? What about that!
CLEMENTS: What about the drug problem that they had? Meth is a problem. These people clearly...
GRACE: Yes, meth is a problem.
CLEMENTS: ... had problems. That was a family in distress with these two parents. The government had adequate notice, several reports that they
could have followed up on. This was bound to happen. It`s unfortunate that it happened, and they need some help. But this really is...
GRACE: Marc Klaas, you know who -- Marc Klaas, help me out. They need help, all right, but I`m talking about the children, not the parents.
They`re at a gambling casino when their children are starving and dying at home in this feces-filled house of horrors! And I`m sorry about their
addiction. I am. But that does not relieve them of the duty to take care of their children!
KLAAS: No, that`s absolutely correct, Nancy. And a house doesn`t get in that kind of disarray overnight. This is something that`s been going on
probably as long as that 7-year-old child has been alive. And he and the rest of these kids need to be taken out of that environment, put into a
foster environment, and hopefully, be given a chance to live a decent life.
GRACE: Did you see them taking selfies? Did you see that? Put the selfies back up, please. They`re so proud and happy. Now they`re -- there
you go, taking selfies of themselves.
What is that camera? What is that? And look, look, look, look. To look at that, they`re happy! They`re pleased with themselves! They`re taking
selfies like they`re Kim Kardashian when they`re locking their children in a padlocked home, a house of horrors, to starve with no food in a feces-
filled home. But yet they`re smiling at the camera.
Now, the man, the husband, had a job restoring cars, repairing cars, fixing cars, and he was highly talented, as a matter of fact. People would seek
him out from far and wide. This is where he worked, but his home is a nightmare. Take a listen to what they have to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DORSON: I feel attacked, you know, because of the way everything went down. And I mean, dude, I`ve taken well (ph) care of my kids. I would do
anything...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is there a sewer going through the house right now?
DORSON: Yes, and I don`t know why they`re saying...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Toilets didn`t flush?
DORSON: Well, kids are kids, OK? And we all know kids. I`m sure something got stuffed in there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where does everybody go to the bathroom? Because there`s nowhere...
FOLEY: The toilet got plugged because he flushed a car down it just the day before...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
FOLEY: ... and we didn`t have anything to get it out. And we`ve been taking it and dumping it so that we can pull the toilet up and off to get
it to come out. The bin...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that why there`s buckets of pee and poop in the hallway and living room area? There`s buckets of nasty...
DORSON: In the hallway and living room area?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. There`s dirty...
DORSON: That`s because (INAUDIBLE) we emptied out the toilet, but that`s not the area that we live in. That`s not the side that we live in.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:18:04]UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A 7-year-old, 3-year-old and an 11-month- old baby were rescued from this house of filth nearly three months after the children`s school said they first called CPS.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of the filthiest houses.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police were tipped off that the kids may have been home alone, and when they got here, officers say they found the 11-month-old
locked in a bedroom.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: The little baby`s in the throes of hypothermia, its body temperature down to 94 degrees from 98.6. And experts say it would only
have lived a few more hours. It`s truly a miracle, a miracle, that a neighbor discovered these children were locked in this house of horrors
while their parents are partying up at a nearby gambling casino. Look at this place!
Listen to what Mommy has to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If a nurse would come in here and take your body temperature, what do you think it would be?
FOLEY: My body temperature? Probably 98.6 or 97.7?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 98.6? Normal. Do you know what (DELETED) was that night when the fire (ph) took it? 94. Yes. So (DELETED) was hypothermia.
He was lying there, struggling. He was dehydrated. We couldn`t even find a vein to put an IV in when he got to the hospital. He was in bad shape.
FOLEY: But he didn`t show any signs, I swear!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He did to the patrol guys. They couldn`t -- he wasn`t responding to their voices, nothing. He was just kind of following them
with his eyes but wasn`t tracking them with his body or nothing, just lying there.
FOLEY: He`s a very quiet baby, though, usually like that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, he was also 94 degrees.
DORSON: The nanny (ph) was there. The kids were there. The kids are my best friends. It`s hard, man!
[20:20:04]FOLEY: I honestly don`t know why they were alone because when I left, the neighbor was with them.
DORSON: We needed (ph) a couple days and (INAUDIBLE) broke up the family.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
DORSON: My wife`s an emotional wreck.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: An emotional wreck? She`s an emotional wreck because she`s finally been called on this atrocious behavior, leaving her children alone in a
house of horror with buckets of urine and feces in the hall, feces on the floor, on the beds. Look at this! The children hadn`t eaten, no heat.
The tiny baby`s suffering from hypothermia. It goes on and on.
And another thing, Frank Morano, talk show host of "The Answer," these children had been missing school for a long time. I don`t know what they
were eating or what they were living off. But what about the teachers? Why weren`t they reported missing? Why didn`t the police know these
children had not been in school?
MORANO: Well, that`s a good question. And I mean, obviously, the 11- month-old is not old enough to be in school, but the 7-year-old certainly should have been. And if you listen to their responses, I mean, I`m a
little sickened by hearing any excuse, where was the government or how bad we should feel for the parents.
These are parents that chose to not only spend all their time at casinos and all their money on drugs, but have been completely dishonest with law
enforcement. When police came to them and asked, Hey, where were you? You know, Amanda, the mother, said, Oh, I went out to dinner. The father said,
Oh, I left the mother with them. So they have done nothing but lie...
GRACE: But lie!
MORANO: ... in addition to neglect their children.
GRACE: To Stacey Newman, on the story. Did you hear the mother say, The baby`s fine, he giggles. How would she know if he was giggling? She was
out at a gambling casino. She didn`t know what was happening, other than she left them padlocked, her own children padlocked in this house of
horrors!
STACEY NEWMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, actually, here`s what`s stunning. I think she did know. She admitted in that interview that she
came back and saw the police there, saw the ambulance taking her baby out on a stretcher. And what did she do? She went and walked up the hill and
sat in the grass, Nancy, and just watched.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:26:07]FOLEY: (INAUDIBLE) trying to do the best we can with what we have to give them a roof.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
FOLEY: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m not saying you`re a bad person, OK? But we made the decision to transfer custody of the children because when we went in
there, of the living situation, we were -- Amanda, we were horrified with what we saw.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK. The detective won`t say it. I`ll say it. You`re a bad person, OK? You padlocked your children. Liz, please take this in full.
You padlocked your three children, including a tiny infant, in this house of horrors. You`re not seeing it right here, but keep watching. The beds,
the floors covered in feces. Look at this filth! How many rats and roaches do you think live there with the three little children left alone,
nothing to eat, no heat, while Mommy and Daddy lived it up at a gambling casino night after night?
To you, Stacey Newman. You just described what Mommy did when she pulled up and saw them taking her baby out on a stretcher. Please repeat.
NEWMAN: Yes, she came home -- actually, she went to a friend`s house down the road, and she`s, Like, Hey, the cops are there. You need to find out
what`s going on.
She goes to the house, she sees the police. She sees this little 11-month- old being pulled out on a stretcher. And instead of running down there and saying, Hey, that`s my children, what`s going on, she walked up the hill
and just sat down in the grass and watched.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Kirby Clements, Alex Sanchez. Also joining us, psychologist Caryn Stark. All right, Alex Sanchez. She sees her baby
being taken out on a stretcher, on a gurney, and put in an ambulance. And she walks away and sits down and never even asks what`s wrong with the
baby.
SANCHEZ: You know, the condition of that house represents the condition of this person`s psychological condition.
GRACE: Oh, I thought you had a JD, not an MD!
SANCHEZ: Listen, she`s a sick...
GRACE: (INAUDIBLE) sorry at the gambling casino!
SANCHEZ: I`m not saying she shouldn`t be punished, but she`s a sick, troubled individual. And thank God the police came in and took away her
child. But I would say any defense in this case...
GRACE: Three children.
SANCHEZ: ... is going to revolve around her mental condition. This isn`t...
GRACE: And just to top it off, Kirby, she`s pregnant, OK? Thanks, Mom! I`m looking forward to that. OK, Kirby, she leaves. She sees her baby
being taken out on a stretcher and she leaves.
Now, I appreciate the armchair shrinkology, Alex Sanchez, but don`t start. I`m going to go to Caryn Stark on that. She`s not crazy. She`s not
insane. She likes to gamble and she likes to do drugs. She doesn`t like to take care of her children. That`s a felony.
CLEMENTS: No, I would suggest to you, Nancy, that the "likes to do drugs" is an overstatement. She`s addicted to drugs, and a lot of drug addicts
hate that addiction. This woman`s life was crashing down, and seeing her daughter taken away, or her baby being taken away, I think was just one
more thing of everything crashing down around her, and she had to really digest that.
GRACE: So she had to gamble some more at the casino?
CLEMENTS: She didn`t do a good job of it, Nancy, but it`s hard for us who don`t do meth to sit here and articulate how someone who does do that...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... I appreciate that you`re saying...
CLEMENTS: ... lives in that condition herself.
GRACE: ... that they have a drug problem. And I feel bad about that. I`ve helped, or tried to help addicts for 10 years try to get rehab and try
to get well. But when it comes to abusing children? No! That`s where the help ends and the jail sentence begins.
Caryn Stark, these two defense lawyers are fabricating some type of mental illness while she`s out at a gambling casino!
CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: It`s despicable, Nancy, and it really makes you wonder, what in the world can happen in a situation like that, that you
would allow parents to have these kids. And I want to say something to you, that in this deplorable condition, there is no mother who would not
have tried to do something, get help, get assistance.
[20:30:06] She watched her children being taken away. Did she do something about it? Did she start screaming, "Don`t take my babies"? She sat there.
No maternal instinct.
GRACE: Well, the other thing is, I`m not going to put her in jail for no maternal instinct, Caryn Stark, but I agree with you. The father is just
as bad. They need to stew in the same pot together in front of a jury. But you`re talking about the mother. And let`s feel sorry for them. But
listen to how they lie to police.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So I was in your house today for like an hour. I got a search warrant to go in the house to document everything that I saw, OK,
and smelled.
AMANDA FOLEY: I have no sense of smell.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And --
FOLEY: I know it doesn`t justify anything, but I`m just letting you know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, you couldn`t live there if you had a sense of smell. I had a building inspector come with me, and I also had the county
health district inspector come with me as well. That house was a danger to live in. That is why the charges, criminal mistreatment in second degree
is a class E felony, and that was for being left alone and being 94 degrees when we got -- when police got there and fire got there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:35:45] GRACE: Live to La Grange. A mother and father devastated when their boy, a straight A student, voted prom king, varsity wrestler, headed
to college, found dead in his own home from an overdose of caffeine. Yes, simple, innocent caffeine. And the boy is dead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: 18-year-old Logan Steiner did have big plans. The graduating senior ingested caffeine powder. An autopsy found an excessive
amount of caffeine in Logan`s system.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Dan O`Donnell, I couldn`t believe it when I first heard it. Dan O`Donnell joining me, anchor with WISN. An overdose of caffeine? I don`t
understand how that`s causing death. And how do you get an overdose of caffeine? This boy is in the prime of his life. He is a varsity wrestler.
He`s number five, in the top five of his class, headed to college. I don`t understand what happened.
DAN O`DONNELL, ANCHOR/REPORTER, NEWS TALK 1130 WISN: Well, Steiner died of cardiac arrhythmia, the seizure brought on by acute caffeine toxicity after
some caffeine powder, taking that powder that he got from a friend who bought it on Amazon.com. The amount of caffeine in his system, 23 times
the amount found in a typical drinker of soda or coffee.
GRACE: 25 times? So, basically, one teaspoon of this caffeine powder equals 25 cups of coffee?
O`DONNELL: That`s about right. It is a massive amount of caffeine in just a small amount of this powder. And that`s why the family is suing, saying
that there weren`t adequate instructions on the label of this product.
GRACE: OK. Is it actually called Hard Rhino? Is that what it is?
O`DONNELL: Yes. The product is labeled as Hard Rhino. That`s the name it`s sold under.
GRACE: OK, now, here`s my question.
Dan O`Donnell, anchor with WISN, what`s the purpose of caffeine powder?
O`DONNELL: Well, the idea is that it would get into your system a lot quicker, and obviously, being far more powerful, as you said, many times
stronger than a cup of Mountain Dew or any sort of soda or coffee, so that it would get you wired far more quickly and last far longer and be a much
stronger form of alertness.
GRACE: You know, Matt Zarrell, I`m sick, I`m just sick about it. The parents devote, they pour in all their love, all their hopes, all their
dreams into this son. He`s in the top five of his class. He`s a varsity wrestler. He`s headed to college, prom king. And this? I mean, how is it
discovered? And did the parents know he had been taking this caffeine powder? Or had he ever taken it before?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, that`s what`s interesting, Nancy, because the family says that he had never taken it before, that this
was the first time he had ever taken it. He was found unresponsive in his home. And when the mom came into the room, she saw the bag of caffeine
powder in the house, and that is when the family became suspicious of what was going on.
GRACE: You know, I don`t know, though. Unleash the lawyers, Kirby Clements, Alex Sanchez, Caryn Stark, psychologist.
Kirby, I don`t know that if a parent saw this, that they would necessarily even be disturbed. I mean, it says caffeine on there.
KIRBY CLEMENTS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No, I think you`re -- that certainly is true, but I mean, there is labeling on there that you have to read. I read
up on this pretty extensively, and I have to tell you, a small amount goes a long way. So there could have been some confusion there. But a parent
seeing this wouldn`t have been alerted to it. But I don`t think that`s -- but the label is on there. And what you do have is sufficient, if a parent
took the time to read it, to alert of the danger.
GRACE: But, yes, I mean, Alex Sanchez, I mean, when you see the big banner across the top, "caffeine powder," that`s not something that would probably
disturb the parents if they saw that. But they`re saying they had never seen it before until they went in to get him. So what`s the answer, Alex?
Is there a lawsuit against Amazon.com?
ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, first of all, this is very alarming, and I think there is a lawsuit against them because Amazon.com is
essentially selling something which could cause death because there wasn`t adequate information on those labeling, there wasn`t adequate warnings on
them. And as a matter of fact, they were even -- from what I understand, it was even characterized as a dietary supplement.
[20:40:10] So anybody, the parents, the child, anybody reading this could be confused and take too much of it and end up dead. So, why shouldn`t
they be held accountable?
GRACE: Well, it`s not first time.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Energy drinks have been in the spotlight following a number of alleged incidents, sometimes with tragic consequences. 16-
year-old Lana Hammond died on a beach holiday, and her mom says energy drinks were the cause. The family of a 14-year-old sued a beverage-maker
after she reportedly died of cardiac arrhythmia. She had two drinks in 24 hours.
Energy drinks are also being blamed for the death of 19-year-old Alex Morris. And Cory Terry`s family says he suffered a fatal heart attack 45
minutes after consuming a popular, highly caffeinated energy drink.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:45:06] GRACE: Live, Dillsburg, Pennsylvania, a tiny tot, just 6 months old, raced to the hospital. Nothing could be done. Landon dies. Tonight,
police claim it`s all because the baby`s parents keeping live rats in the home to feed an assortment of deadly pet snakes. COD, Cause of death? Rat
bite.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A 6-month-old baby boy has died, and it`s been determined that his death was the result of a deadly rat bite.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Andrew Carr, police and court reporter with "The Sentinel."
Andrew, thank you for being with us. How many snakes were in the home?
ANDREW CARR, REPORTER, THE SENTINEL: Well, we don`t have an exact number on that as of yet. Police haven`t released any information regarding how
many pets, but they did say that they were multiple.
GRACE: And they would keep the live rats to feed the snakes?
CARR: Yes. That`s what we were told.
GRACE: OK.
CARR: That the rats were actually food for the snakes.
GRACE: OK, let`s start at the beginning. What happened to the baby?
CARR: Well, Nancy, this all started on December 30th, when 6-month-old Landon Kreitz was brought into the emergency room of Holy Spirit Hospital
here in Cumberland County. He was -- he had a high fever and rash, and he was treated by a physician there in the emergency room, given medication
and then later released that same day.
GRACE: They didn`t know what it was to start with?
CARR: No. We were informed that the doctor may have known that the baby had been bitten. However, he was treated and the doctor released him that
evening.
GRACE: Do you know what his symptoms were, Andrew Carr?
For those of you just joining us, the baby, Landon, just 6 months old, dead. His family, mommy and daddy, choose to keep snakes in the home, and
that includes a whole trove of rats that they feed to the snakes. The baby raced to the hospital two times in a row and dies, ultimately diagnosed
with rat bite.
Go ahead, Andrew Carr.
CARR: Well, two days after the initial hospital visit on January 1st, the baby was again brought to the emergency room, again with a high fever and
was acting lethargic. The doctors attempted to treat the child, but it subsequently died.
GRACE: You know, joining me right now, Charlie Hall, the Cumberland County coroner.
Charlie, thank you for being with us. What was determined to be the cause and manner of death?
CHARLIE HALL, CUMBERLAND COUNTY CORONER: The cause of death is meningitis and myocardias, and the manner of death is natural.
GRACE: To Dr. Bill Manion, forensic pathologist. What is myocarditis? What is that?
DR. BILL MANION, M.D., MEDICAL EXAMINER, BURLINGTON COUNTY, NJ: Well, carditis just means an inflammation of the heart. And I`m not sure if
they`re talking about a viral carditis. Rats can carry viruses as well as bacteria. Meningitis can be both viral and bacterial. But I`m not so sure
about the manner of death being natural. It may be accidental because a bite is certainly something we don`t expect to be a natural type of thing
to be experienced by a baby, so.
GRACE: To Dr. Grey Stafford, director of conservation at Wildlife World Zoo and animal trainer.
Dr. Stafford, thank you for being with us. How dangerous is it to have rats around infants?
GREY STAFFORD, ANIMAL TRAINER: Well, as with any animal, you`re going to make sure that those animals are supervised around children. And 6 months
old is very young, because you want to maintain good husbandry, good cleanliness. And so I don`t expect a 6-year-old to be able to wash its
hands or keep its hands away from its face after it`s touched an animal so --
GRACE: But wait a minute, this has nothing to do with the baby washing its hand, Doctor.
STAFFORD: Yes.
GRACE: It has to do with a rat biting an infant who`s probably lying there in the layette and can`t help itself. OK.
STAFFORD: That`s right.
GRACE: Has nothing to do about the cleanliness of the baby. It`s about the parents keeping the rats to feed snakes and the baby being bitten.
STAFFORD: Well, particularly with feeder mice or feeder rats, these are animals that typically aren`t handled a lot, so I`m not surprised that they
might be bitey because again they`re not something we bond to because their purpose is to serve as food for other animals.
GRACE: So you don`t want to become a friend of the rat and then feed it to the snake, I think, is what you`re saying.
STAFFORD: Exactly. So those animals probably aren`t handled very often, so I`m not surprised that one might bite anybody.
GRACE: OK. To Charlie Hall, Cumberland County coroner.
Mr. Hall, again, thank you for being with us. What exactly is rat bite fever? What is that?
HALL: Well, rat bite fever is a viral infection or bacterial infection. The technical name is the Streptobacillus moniliformis, and that`s -- the
common term is rat bite fever.
[20:50:06] GRACE: And OK, question, the -- where were the parents when the baby was bitten, do we know?
HALL: The baby -- the parents were in the home. I`m not sure exactly where they were in relation to the baby.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: And now to Oregon, a 61-year-old pervert allegedly snaps up skirts photos of a 13-year-old little girl at the local Target store. Guess what?
He`s walking scot-free. Taking upskirt photos of little girls in Target is legal in Oregon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The guy comes up behind her and sticks his camera underneath her skirt and starts taking pictures.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Calling Bono a sick man, the judge explained that from a legal point of view no Oregon law expressly prohibited Bono from
taking the photos.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s free to go get someone else.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK. Craig Fronek, host of "Sunrise with Craig" on Newstalk.
Ok, Craig, I know it`s not your fault but can you explain to me why this is OK in Oregon for some creepy perv to be hiding around in the Target to take
upskirt photos of a little girl`s crotch of her underwear?
CRAIG FRONEK, HOST, NEWS TALK 680: Nancy, thanks for having me on. It`s not OK and the letter of the law states knowingly makes or records a
photograph, motion picture, videotape or other visual recording of another person in a state of nudity without the consent, that`s the ORS statute
which states nudity. So the loophole is the state of nudity without the consent.
There are two House bills, 2596 in the legislature and House Bill 2356. And I`m stunned that the Oregon legislature has swung into this to get this
on the books and changed the language to say another person`s intimate areas without the consent and that`s unknowingly taking -- so that`s why
this 61-year-old scumbag -- I`m a dad and I`ve got kids and I want to nail this guy.
GRACE: What -- I mean, didn`t they notice what he was doing in Target? I mean, two things, number one, with all the time and all the boondoggles and
all the money that state legislatures across this country waste taking our taxpayer dollars, and they`re up at the legislature for long periods of
time, they can`t bring themselves to pass a law to cover this? How did the whole thing unfold, Craig?
FRONEK: Well, here`s the thing. The guy walks in. He`s got the camera phone on the smartphone and the laws are simply not up to date. And they
have no oversight. It`s happening in Wisconsin, it`s happening in Texas, it`s happening in Massachusetts. It`s the upskirting and they haven`t
gotten to it. But he walks into Target and he just kind of leans over and the 13-year-old -- any kid that`s not paying attention, he`s going to come
up behind, just snap, snap, snap, snap with the camera.
GRACE: Let`s stop and remember, American hero, Army 1st Sergeant Charles King, 48, Mobile, Alabama. Two Bronze Stars, a Purple Heart, 11 Army
Achievement medals. An artist trained at the Art Institute of Chicago, left behind a journal for his baby boy to remember him. Parents Gladys and
Charlie, sister Gail, fiancee Dana, children Christina and Jordan.
Charles King, American hero.
And tonight a special goodnight from Ohio friends. Marie, Mike, Megan, and Mark. Family of our star, Candy. Aren`t they awesome?
Drew is up next, everybody. I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friends.
END