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Nancy Grace
Second Lawsuit Filed in Jenner Car Crash. Aired 8-9:00p ET
Aired June 09, 2015 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. We go live. U.S. decathlon Olympic winner turned reality star Bruce Jenner transitions into
Caitlyn Jenner, Bruce Jenner unveiled as a woman on the cover of "Vanity Fair" posing in a white satin corset and showing off long brunette hair
with highlights.
As the reality star sets up her very own Twitter account under Caitlyn Jenner, still looming, a potential vehicular homicide investigation and
jury trial for the death of a woman Jenner slams into from behind.
Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, Caitlyn Jenner, formerly Bruce Jenner, now slapped with a potential multi-million-dollar car crash
lawsuit. As the new Caitlyn Jenner bathes in a newfound personality, how will it all affect a homicide investigation and a brand new multi-million-
dollar lawsuit?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A new lawsuit claims Caitlyn Jenner...
CAITLYN JENNER: What a difference...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... formerly known as Bruce Jenner...
JENNER: I don`t need that in my life.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... negligently, carelessly and recklessly drove her Cadillac SUV and caused the collision...
JENNER: We`re officially off the property. We`re out into the world!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... resulting in the death of one person.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That video from E!
And tonight, live, Indiana, a shocking brawl in the aisle of the Beach Grove Walmart, where Mommy screams, Johnny (ph), punch her in the face, the
stunning moment Mommy starts a brawl in Walmart and forces her 6-year-old little boy to help her out by kicking the other woman in the face! The mom
leaps out of her motorized scooter to start the attack, and it`s all caught on YouTube video. We have the video.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It started right here in the aisle with two women fighting, but the worst part of the video, the little boy who gets
involved, hitting one woman with a shampoo bottle.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don`t do that!
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... on the floor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And live, Pendleton, South Carolina, a 12-month-old little girl, Leona Wright (ph), disappears. We join family and law enforcement
for the search for baby Leona. Tonight, the startling new facts emerging as the clock ticks down.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nobody knows who took the child.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The front door was open. The 1-year-old was missing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, Caitlyn Jenner, formerly Bruce Jenner, slapped with a potential multi-million-dollar car crash lawsuit.
As the new Caitlyn Jenner basks in her newfound personality, how will all of this affect a homicide investigation, two lawsuits, the brand-new
potentially multi-million-dollar lawsuit that has just come down in the last hours?
Alan Duke, editor-in-chief, Leadstories.com, you know, there`s still not only this lawsuit, all right, there is a wrongful death lawsuit by the
woman`s family. She died, all right? That woman died in this car crash. Then you`ve got the woman now suing. Then you`ve got a whole `nother
family, a family with some children in the car that went to the hospital. We haven`t heard a peep out of them yet.
But is it true, Alan Duke? Our research shows that Caitlyn Jenner, formerly Bruce Jenner, has a $250,000 crash policy because this is not
going to even touch that.
ALAN DUKE, LEADSTORIES.COM: No, no. That is true. But of course, they can sue Bruce Jenner beyond his insurance liability. And he`s good
for it. He`s got plenty of money. He`s still making money, of course. And I`m not too worried about him not being able to pay a settlement
(INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa! Alan Duke, Alan Duke -- let me see Alan Duke, editor-in-chief, Leadstories.com. Now, we have research
that shows their joint worth, net worth, and that would be...
DUKE: A lot of money.
GRACE: ... Bruce, now Caitlyn, and Kris Jenner. I mean, for Pete`s sake, that -- that -- that reality show is like Fort Knox. It`s like a
money-making machine -- is $125 million, estimate. So how come in a divorce settlement, he walks off with $2.5 million? How did that happen?
[20:05:02]DUKE: Well, you know, I would not want to be married to Kris because she`s pretty clever. She made a lot of that money for them
with the whole engineering of the reality show.
But he`s got a big future. She has a big future, I should say, perhaps a brighter future than he had, because of this new reality show,
and she is a newfound celebrity with a bright future in show business.
GRACE: OK, you`re talking about Caitlyn Jenner, and here they are with "Keeping Up With the Kardashians" from E!`s reality series.
There you see Kris. There you see the little ones, the Khloe, the Kourtney. And here you go. Here is Caitlyn now. I believe this, what
you`re seeing right here, is part of Caitlyn Jenner`s new docu-series from E! called "I Am Cait."
Now, Alan Duke, let`s just get that -- let me get this car back in the middle of the road. Let`s start with this new wrongful death lawsuit.
Now, in the legal papers -- excuse me, personal injury lawsuit -- the legal documents say the injuries are at least $25,000. But this is going to be a
potentially multi-million-dollar lawsuit.
I`m wondering how the new wave of publicity is going to affect this brand-new lawsuit that has just happened. It`s clearly going to reach into
the millions.
Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAITLYN JENNER: The last few days in doing this shoot was about my life and who I am as a person. It`s not about the fanfare. It`s not about
people cheering in the stadium. It`s not about going down the street and everybody giving you, Atta boy, Bruce, pat on the back, OK? This is about
your life.
Bruce always had to tell a lie. He was always living that lie, every day. He always had a secret, from morning until night. Caitlyn doesn`t
have any secrets. As soon as the "Vanity Fair" cover comes out, I`m free.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That video is from "Vanity Fair," and there you see Caitlyn Jenner, known by millions as Bruce Jenner, the Olympic decathlon winner and
star of a reality show as Bruce Jenner.
But now he`s Caitlyn Jenner, and he`s got his own docu-series with E! called "I Am Cait." All of this is happening at the same time he is -- she
is being besieged by a potential homicide investigation, a wrongful death lawsuit that`s going to be valued at the millions, and now a brand-new
lawsuit that Jenner has just been slapped with.
Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENNER: So many people go through life and they never deal with their own issues, no matter what the issues are. Ours happen to be gender
identity. But how many people go through life and just waste an entire life because they never deal with themselves, to be who they are?
You know, you go through all of this stuff, and you start learning kind of the pressure that women are under all the time about their
appearance. I never had, until a couple of weeks ago, actually a professional come in and do my makeup. What a difference.
OK, we`re officially off the property. We`re out into the world! It`s so bright out there. Look at that. Isn`t it great that maybe some
day you`ll be normal, just blend into society?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You are normal.
JENNER: Put it this way. I`m the new normal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That is Caitlyn Jenner in the E! docu-series "I Am Cait."
So Alan Duke, how is all of this tidal wave of publicity going to affect a potential multi-million-dollar lawsuit, when he`s got $250,000
worth of insurance coverage, he`s got to worry about potentially going to jail with a vehicular homicide case, and this is just the tip of the
iceberg.
DUKE: Well, I don`t really think this is necessarily multi-million- dollars. I`ve sat in a lot of civil cases watching where jurors have to make a decision, but they`ve got to see actual damages. They`re not asking
for punitive. They`re just asking for actual damages.
We don`t know how seriously this woman, the talent manager in Hollywood, was injured. She`s claiming she lost some money because she
couldn`t work, and she had some medical and some pain and suffering. But we don`t know what it`s going to be. They`ve got to prove it in a
courtroom -- (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: Alan Duke, Alan Duke, Alan Duke...
DUKE: Yes?
GRACE: Have you ever been in the middle of a civil lawsuit by chance? Have you sued or been sued? I won`t ask the details.
DUKE: No, I have been in plenty of them in court.
GRACE: OK. Let me tell you, Alan, when people start suing and there`s money involved, people take on different personalities. It`s the
strangest thing. And what you think might be a $150,000 lawsuit, when they get in court, boom! They are telling a jury it`s $3 million, $4 million,
$5 million. It happens all the time.
[20:10:16]Now is it as you pointed out? No, it may not be. But still, that threat looms, and it ends up getting bigger and bigger and
bigger settlements.
To Zoey Tur, joining me right now, along with Alan Duke, special correspondent, "Inside Edition," also talk show host with KFI. Zoey, thank
you for being with us. How does this wave of PR affect these lawsuits and a homicide investigation? And not only that, give it a minute because the
new E! docu-series "I Am Cait" is about to start, as well.
ZOEY TUR, "INSIDE EDITION": Well, it`s got major impact because I think the plaintiff`s lawyers, they have the ace up their sleeves, and
that`s called a videotaped deposition. And you know from being a lawyer, you know deposing somebody, they can videotape it. And they can`t afford
to have Caitlyn Jenner sitting there on camera being deposed because it`s public record. We can get access to it.
And with the -- you know, we`re talking about a $100 million juggernaut, Kardashian 2.0, looming over the horizon. They`re going to
allow Caitlyn Jenner to sit in an attorney`s office, do a videotaped deposition? Ain`t going to happen. They got to settle this case.
GRACE: Yes, I think you`re right about that. Zoey Tur joining us, special correspondent with "Inside Edition."
P.S., you`re seeing Caitlyn Jenner in her E! docu-series, "I Am Cait."
So Zoey Tur, you`re a transgender reporter, used to be a man. How, may I ask, do you believe his transition, her transition, is going to
affect a potential homicide jury?
I mean, if you get one person on that jury that somehow begrudges the whole transition, you know what? You may never even know that. Picking a
jury is a very tricky, tricky thing. People that you know or run into in your daily life, you suddenly find out they don`t like you because you`re
transgender.
So what is she facing going into this jury?
TUR: I think it`s like Russian roulette. You don`t know what you`re facing. I think you`re absolutely right. The voir dire process is not
going to necessarily weed out somebody that has some problems with the transgender process. A lot of religious people do not understand what I`ve
done, what Jenner`s done.
GRACE: Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey!
TUR: It`s true!
GRACE: Watch it with throwing the religious thing around.
TUR: It`s true. No, you`ve got to see my e-mails. I`m saying -- I`m not saying there`s hatred. I`m saying they don`t understand it.
GRACE: Because I think if people are hating on you, then they`re not religious.
TUR: Oh, good point. What are you, a lawyer?
(LAUGHTER)
GRACE: Maybe. I`m not going to cop to that right now.
But when you go and sit there and you`re sitting in the defendant`s seat or the respondent`s seat, where Caitlyn Jenner`s going to be sitting,
and you look at that jury, if there`s going to be a vehicular homicide trial here, how do you know somebody there is not vehemently opposed to
transitioning from man to woman?
I mean, the way I look at it, I don`t care. I just want to know what happened at the crash. That`s what I care about. But somebody else may
not feel that way, and you may never even know.
TUR: I agree with you. You don`t know what people are thinking. And everyone that I meet, they`re skeptical. They have to -- you talk to them,
you get to know them, and hopefully, win them over.
But you can`t win everybody over. This is a very difficult thing for people to process. It`s difficult for transgender people to process,
people who`ve gone through this. So you hope that you find people that take their duties responsibly, that really believe in the system and will
do the right thing. So the actual facts of the case become important, but that`s so difficult, as you well know.
GRACE: I don`t know if that`s going to happen. I don`t know if that`s going to happen. You do your best in voir dire, which is jury
selection, which coincidentally, translation is to speak the truth, but not everybody always does speak the truth, sadly.
There`s a ton of press rolling out a tidal wave, a tsunami regarding Caitlyn Jenner. And in the last hours, Jenner is slapped with a potential
multi-million-dollar personal injury car crash lawsuit.
Take a listen to this, "Keeping Up With Kardashians" from E!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tonight was the night that I had to meet up with Todd again.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Explain why you saw this (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I wanted to tell you that tonight, I realized I really appreciate you a lot more. I may have been fantasizing about
somebody for the last 23 years that didn`t really deserve that kind of recognition.
[20:15:08]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s showering me with all these great, lovely things, but she went behind my back. I`m not excited about this.
That`s for sure.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A new lawsuit claims Caitlyn Jenner, formerly known as Bruce Jenner, operated her Cadillac Escalade and caused a
collision.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s the same neighborhood where Khloe Kardashian lives, the stepdaughter of Jenner, who was also involved in the
crash.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, you are normal.
JENNER: ... blend into society.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You are normal.
JENNER: Put it this way. I`m the new normal.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the second civil suit to come out of the deadly crash. Jenner has offered her deepest sympathies.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Sympathy? Fine. But they are suing for potential multi- million-dollars. That`s Caitlyn Jenner in the E! docu-series "I Am Cait," about to come out.
[20:20:03]I want to go back out to Alan Duke, Leadstories.com editor- in-chief. Alan, the lawsuit that just happened, it has just come down -- and again, there`s a whole `nother family that was part of this car crash.
We haven`t heard a peep from them.
Alan, I don`t know if you can see a monitor, but look at the re-enact that has been made. It just so happens that -- there you go. There is
Steindorff. She is the new lawsuit. Thee`s Howe`s car, who died. Jenner`s car, in the back, pushes Howe`s car into oncoming traffic and
she`s killed. There you go. That`s how that happened. Steindorff is hit, as well. She`s suing for potential millions. And there`s yet another
family involved. Now, the way that we -- in that Hummer right there, that`s the other family.
The way that we know generally what happened is a public bus was going by, and they have video and they caught it on video. So I don`t know what
the two sides are going to argue in the face of that video, but they`ll have to work their arguments around the video. That`s what they`re going
to do.
Hold on, Alan Duke. I hear I`m just being joined by Dr. Kathy Rumer, gender reassignment surgery expert, board-certified plastic and
reconstructive surgeon. Dr. Kathy Rumer, thanks for being with us.
Explain to me what you undergo to transition from male to female. Are drugs or hormones involved? And if he were -- if she were using those
at the time of the crash, would it have affected her acuity?
You`re seeing Caitlyn Jenner in E! docu-series "I Am Cait."
Go ahead, Dr. Rumer.
DR. KATHY RUMER, GENDER REASSIGNMENT SURGERY EXPERT (via telephone): Thank you very much for having me, Nancy. I really have no idea what type
of a post-surgical state Caitlyn might have been in at the time of the crash. I can`t speak directly to that question.
I can tell you that whenever patients are having facial feminization surgery with me, they are going to be on narcotics for a certain number of
days afterwards to manage the pain. However, they are strictly reminded that it`s important not to operate motor vehicles during that time period,
it`s important not to make legal decisions and important things like that.
As far as transition is concerned, there is a World Professional Association for Transgender Help that has established strict guidelines for
patients to follow in order to complete their transition, which in order to complete a full transition, a patient would have to have lived for one year
as the role of -- in a female, and they would have also have had to have been on hormone therapy for one year. And they would have had to fulfill -
- have gotten two letters from behavioral therapists with a master`s degree level of training or higher and also had medical clearance.
GRACE: Well, Doctor -- everybody with me, Dr. Kathy Rumer. We just showed -- oh, you`re seeing video from the "Vanity Fair" shoot where
Caitlyn Jenner makes her debut as a woman.
Let me ask you this, Ms. -- excuse me, Dr. Rumer. We were seeing a list of everything that Bruce Jenner underwent to become Caitlyn Jenner --
tracheal shaving, two operations on his jaw, facial feminization. What is all that?
RUMER: So as far as facial feminization is concerned, it`s really handled on a case-by-case basis, depending on how feminine the patient`s
features are to begin with. If a patient is not very feminine, they may have to undergo more extensive procedures, which could include shaving
their brow, shortening their forehead, sculpting their nose, fat-grafting their cheeks, reducing the skin around their eyes, doing some jaw
contouring...
GRACE: This sounds like a lot. That sounds like a lot of pain. Pain, Dr. Rumer! It sounds like a lot of pain. How much does all that
cost, by the way?
RUMER: Really, it can get quite costly, and that`s really one of the things that`s important for patients to understand and that`s what can
affect their ability to transition is being able to afford the...
GRACE: Pay for it.
RUMER: ... surgeries that are necessary.
GRACE: Everybody, you are seeing Caitlyn Jenner in the E! docu- series, "I Am Cait." And here Caitlyn is, as Bruce, with home many people are a little more familiar with, the Olympic decathlon winner, reality
star, father, husband to Kris Jenner.
Here in "Keeping Up With the Kardashians." Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey, doll.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did rehearsal go?
[20:25:01]UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s all good. I just feel really, really bad that it`s not Kourtney and Scott (ph) getting married. Khloe`s
married. Kim wants to be married. And she`s decided to be the rebel in the family?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re probably happier than most married couples. What you`re only worried about is how you feel. So if you want
to drive your kids away, keep meddling in what they`re doing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What? I shouldn`t be meddling in their stuff?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. You shouldn`t be meddling and then pushing them.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re supposed to be on my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) side! You`re my husband and you`re supposed to side with me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lookit, you got two very tough, bull-headed people, Kourtney and her mother. It`s either Kris`s way or the highway.
She just doesn`t know when to stop. And I think as far as Kourtney getting married, it`s about time she stopped.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Caitlyn Jenner hit with another lawsuit.
JENNER: Caitlyn doesn`t have any secrets.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A second lawsuit over a fatal car accident alleges that Jenner was reckless.
JENNER: It`s not about the fanfare. It`s not about people cheering.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Asking for over $25,000 in damages for what she calls Jenner`s negligent, careless and reckless actions.
JENNER: This is about your life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That video you`re seeing is from "Vanity Fair."
And when we say $25,000, in that jurisdiction in California, you have to -- in order to file a lawsuit in that court, you have to say there are
at least $25,000 worth of damages. This is a potentially multi million dollar lawsuit against now Caitlyn Jenner, formerly Bruce Jenner.
A tidal wave, a tsunami of press regarding the transition from man to woman and a new E! docuseries, "I Am Cate," leaving essentially his wife
and family to transition to a woman, but many people in the family are supporting him. All of his children are supporting him, and I`m sure we
are going to explore that in the E! docuseries "I Am Cate" you are seeing now.
I want to go to special guest, Corporal Dwaine Parker, along with Dr. Kathy Ruemer. Corporal Parker, former traffic homicide investigator for
the Collier County Sheriff`s Office. Thank you for being with us. You`ve studied this. How can you tell what happened?
CORP. DWAINE PARKER, FORMER TRAFFIC HOMICIDE INVESTIGATOR: It appears to me that the Prius stopped first or was traveling very slow. The white
Lexus rear ended the Prius, and then Bruce Jenner tried to -- and Caitlin Jenner -- tried to swerve right to avoid it, and then struck the Lexus,
causing it to rotate counterclockwise into the oncoming Hummer.
GRACE: Let`s see that re-enact series, Liz, again. Okay. So you are saying that Jenner did not start the chain of events?
PARKER: That`s correct. I`m saying that because of the damage that`s on the back end of the Prius, if you look at the Prius, the majority of the
damage is just above the bumper, and since Caitlyn`s driving an SUV, Cadillac SUV, that damage is located high on around the headlight assembly
over to the hood, and so therefore, it`s much higher than what the damage is on the Prius. But if you look at the Lexus, the front bumper of the
Lexus is about the same height as the bumper on the Prius, so that tells me that the Lexus made contact with the Prius.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:36:50]
GRACE: Live, Indiana, a shocking brawl in the aisle of a Beach Grove Walmart, where mommy screams "Johnny, punch her in the face." The stunning
moment, a woman starts a brawl in Walmart. One making her 6-year-old little boy help her out by kicking the woman in the face, a woman leaping
out of her motorized scooter to start the attack, and it`s all caught on Youtube video. We have the video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You want it? Are you [ bleep ] serious? Do you want it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What you going to do? Come on.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You want it? You want it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Johnny, punch her in the [ bleep ] face.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do something! Do something about it!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Okay. Liz, please cue that up in full. I don`t want to miss a single word of this, because if you keep listening, you hear the one
woman call out for her 6-year-old child Johnny, punch her in the face. Is this it, Liz? Can we play it?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You want it? Are you [ bleep ] serious? You want it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What you going to do? Come on.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You want it? You want it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, really? There`s kids all around here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey, buddy, don`t do this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Y`all knock it off. The kid`s sitting there upset. Get the hell off of her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Johnny, punch her in the [ bleep ] face.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Come on! You want it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is white trash at its finest.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mommy!
Do something! Do something about it! What are you going to do?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where does he get it?
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s awful, isn`t it?
It is awful. Hey, hey. Stop it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can`t tell me to stop.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Look, you`re going to go to little boy jail. Hey, don`t kick. He just kicked her in the head.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You aren`t going to tell me what to do!
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s not right. He`s kicking her face. No, he`s kicking the one on the floor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That video from Youtube, okay, you know, this has in my mind felony child abuse written all over it. The mom who is the one in the
black outfit on the top, making her child join in.
[20:40:00]
He actually repeatedly kicks the woman on the floor in the face, in the head, over and over and over, beating her in the head with shampoo as mommy
piles on, sitting on top of her victim. I don`t know who jumped out of the rascal or a scooter. I`m not sure about that. Chris Spargo, reporter,
Dailymail.com, please tell me both of these women have been fingerprinted and booked. One of them needs to be booked for child abuse.
SPARGO: This is the most outrageous thing about this entire thing. By the time police arrived at the scene, both women were telling different
stories, so they just let both of them go off on their own way. The only repercussion so far has been that the Walmart has said they cannot return.
But no charges have been filed and police have done absolutely nothing about this.
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, who`s the guy standing by watching. I don`t know if I would have gotten in the middle of trying to pull the women apart, but
I would certainly pull that child off.
To Dr. William Morrone, forensic pathologist, medical examiner, toxicologist, joining us tonight. Doctor, to get kicked like you`re
punting a football, even by a boy of 6, to get kicked in the eye? What does that do to the victim?
MORRONE: Well, the amount of force necessary to damage the eye no matter whether it`s an adult, a teen or a child, is the same amount of
force that you need to break an egg or crack styrofoam. And if you look at the human skull, it`s hard everywhere, except right where you take the
damage. If you can break an egg with a kick, you can break an eye with a kick. If you can break styrofoam with a punch or a kick, you can break an
eye. It will change your vision. It will detach your retina. This is permanent damage. This is serious stuff. We shouldn`t be having children
be taught to hit anything. This is a very sad part of society where we`re going that people don`t recognize this. Lot of damage can be done.
GRACE: You know, what you were saying about the amount of force that is required to damage your eyes is the amount of force it takes to crack an
egg?
MORRONE: Yes.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Joining me, Atlanta lawyer Randy Kessler, L.A. Lawyer Troy Slaten. Okay, Troy Slaten, did you see the woman
leaping out of her rascal scooter -- and I`m calling it a rascal because I just have seen that ad on TV for a rascal -- but she`s going around in a
motorized scooter, which actually I think starts the whole brawl, because the other woman says hey, you don`t need to be in that scooter, why don`t
you get your fat -- up and something, something. That starts the whole thing about the scooter. So all right, Slaten, let`s hear your defense for
these moms and explain to me why the one mom who is forcing her child, a 6- year-old child, that`s a year younger than my twins, to start kicking the woman in the face?
SLATEN: It looks like mutual combat, Nancy. Somebody is not guilty of a crime. You`re not guilty of assault and battery if it`s mutual
combat. They were both fighting, they were both throwing punches and throwing kicks, and just because a woman is calling for her child to come
to her aid, to come to her defense, doesn`t mean that she is guilty of assault and battery.
GRACE: Help me, help me, I`m hurting, I`m dying, I need help, she said Johnny, punch her in the face. Okay, so Randy Kessler, that is not
coming to mommy`s aid. Mommy`s aid is something like hey, I`m dropping the groceries, can you please help me here? Not kick her in the face, Johnny.
KESSLER: Actually, it is coming to mommy`s aid. She wasn`t going to take her time and think about the polite way to say it. What`s really
going to happen is the whole investigation into the home life and see if there`s more of that. If the whole home life is like that, yes, she`s in
trouble. But in the middle of a fight, people will do anything they can to --
GRACE: You force your child to get into a fight -- you know --
KESSLER: She was hurting.
GRACE: Matt Zarrell, let me go to you. Who starts the fight? Did mommy start the fight or the other woman that ends up on the floor?
ZARRELL: It appears from the video that they`re both frantically arguing with each other, and then it`s the woman in gray in the scooter who
gets up and confronts the woman in black, and that is when the fight really starts.
GRACE: Okay. Hold on. Words alone do not justify self-defense or a fight. Words alone. Doesn`t anybody on this panel remember sticks and
stones? That`s the law. Sticks and stones can break your bones, words can never hurt you. That is not justification for a full-on attack with a
shampoo bottle.
Tiffany Sanders, psychologist out of Chicago, what is this mother thinking? Have you seen this video right here from Youtube, Tiffany?
SANDERS: Hi, Nancy. Yes, I have seen the video, and the mother was not thinking at all. She let all logic, problem solving and critical
thinking skills go out the window, go out of her mind. She was not thinking about the welfare of her child. And if she was thinking about the
welfare, she would have walked away. What she did was contribute to the delinquency of her child, and this probably was a behavior that you`re
going to see on a regular basis in that home. She told him to hit.
[20:45:00]
And then the little boy was very mouthy and sassy and said I`m not listening to you. This is behavior you are going to likely see in the kids
in school.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Live, (inaudible), South Carolina, a 12-month-old baby girl Leona Wright disappears. Tonight we join family and law enforcement for
the search for baby Leona. In the last hours, disturbing new facts are emerging. To Joey Hudson, host with WGTK, joining us on the story.
[20:50:00]
What is the latest in the search for baby Leona?
HUDSON: Well, Nancy, Sheriff Skipper did suspend the ground search today. One of the ladies that called into 911 said I`m just trying to make
it make sense, because it`s not making sense to me. Nancy, that`s how I feel. It`s not making sense. We`re on day four. This young Leona Wright
was first reported missing. The Anderson County Sheriff`s Office is unable to confirm how the baby got out of the apartment. They had search and
rescue teams out, tracking dogs, horseback riders, many volunteers from four counties in the area. Investigators have sifted through mounds of
garbage from the apartment, and the frustrating thing is we`re no closer to knowing what exactly happened to this 1-year-old Leona Wright.
GRACE: Have they brought out cadaver dogs, Joey?
HUDSON: Not to my knowledge at this point. No.
GRACE: Well, you know what, that might be a good idea right now. Another thing, if this child did wander off, the temperature has been
soaring. Stacy Newman on the story, what have the temps been there in Columbia, South Carolina?
NEWMAN: Well, we know they`ve had tracking dogs out there actually. And there`s a large two-acre heavily wooded out there behind that complex.
They`ve been in and out, also on horseback trying to find clues.
GRACE: She`s talking about the wooded area. It`s been up in the 90s, by the way. This wooded area is what Stacy is talking about. They`ve been
out there with tracker dogs. To Dr. William Morrone, how will the temperature affect her? This child has managed to crawl away. And we have
confirmed she cannot walk. Could not walk yet. That`s not unusual, but it makes the theory that she walked away from the apartment impossible. Dr.
William Morrone, what about heatstroke? What about thirsting to death? How will that affect this child?
MORRONE: One of the reasons why we regularly plan on feeding children is that they give up a certain amount of perspiration that is undetectable.
So a child dehydrates regularly. And when a child sweats in heat, it`s even worse, and if you can`t replace that, plus, when a child urinates,
that`s three different sources of losing fluids. You need to keep fluids in a baby every day. This is the same thing as a baby. This child cannot
go two days or three days. This is critical. This is fatal right now. Fluid replacement and temperature management and shelter.
GRACE: To R.L. Wright, a special guest joining us out of Columbia. This is baby Leona`s aunt. Thank you so much for being with us. What is
law enforcement telling you guys about baby Leona?
R.L. WRIGHT, AUNT: Thank you so much for having me. Nancy, as of right now, the only thing they`re telling us is they`re still searching for
Leona. We haven`t been provided with any other details on what`s going on or really any updates. Most of the updates we`re getting are from the news
reporters and newspapers and articles. They tell us that they`re searching.
GRACE: Okay, Ms. Wright. What are you getting from the the mom and the boyfriend? What are they saying?
WRIGHT: The mom, I haven`t spoken with her. I`ve spoke with my brother, who is the father. I haven`t spoke with the mom. She is giving -
- the stories that she`s giving, they`ve changed a little bit. So we`re just waiting for--
GRACE: In what way? What is your brother telling you? In what way is mommy Kiara Sullivan`s story changing?
WRIGHT: From the first story of where the 4-year-old daughter, the sister, Ariel, opened the daughter and the 1-year-old crawled out, which is
kind of hard for us to accept. The 1-year-old crawling out on cement with nothing guarding her legs, when if you ask anyone in the family (inaudible)
beside her sister`s side at all times. So that was kind of hard, but that was the story. Then it was she wasn`t there. Then most recently, it was
reported with Independence Mail that she feels like her daughter -- Leona was not there that night when she came home and she feels like her
boyfriend had something to do with it.
GRACE: Are you saying she said Leona was not there when she got home the night before?
WRIGHT: She says that she feels that she may not have been there. That`s what was reported to Independence Mail or News in Anderson County.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:59:00]
GRACE: Let`s remember American hero Marine Private First Class Jason Hanson, just 21, Forks, Washington. Purple Heart. Dreamed of being a
Marine since age 14. Parents, Carol and Stephen, sister Sarah, brothers Sam and Jacob. Widow Maria. Jason Hanson, American hero.
And tonight, we remember a legal giant, Vincent Bugliosi. Best known as the prosecutor of the Charles Manson trial. Bugliosi winning
convictions against Manson and his cult of groupies. Best selling author, remembered for an unwavering dedication to justice. Leaves behind a wife
of 59 years, Gayle, children Wendy and Vince Jr.
And a special good night from CNN star intern Hanna. Isn`t she gorgeous? Drew up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night. 8:00 sharp Eastern.
And until then, good night, friend.
END
