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Nancy Grace
Josh Duggar Cancels Personal Appearance; Targeted Knife Attack; Teen Stabbed at Target; Two Children Dead in Home; Aired 8-9p ET
Aired June 11, 2015 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. We go live. The wildly popular TLC reality show seen here, "19 Kids and Counting" featuring the ultra-
religious Duggar family, in a tailspin after one of the Duggars, Josh Duggar, now 27, with three children on his own, accused of molesting young
girls. The Duggar family sex victims break their silence amid claims of a coverup.
Disturbing new details emerging. Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, Josh Duggar backs out of a major public appearance to avoid public Q&A as
questions swirl. Are there other victims yet to be named? Why has Josh Duggar remained silent, allowing his mother, father, sisters to speak for
him? Is he concerned anything he says can be used against him in a court of law?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Josh Duggar involved in at least seven instances of sexual molestation, touching his sisters on the breasts and vaginal areas
while they were sleeping.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were going through different phases together as little kids.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This all-American family...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re the Duggars.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... had a terrible secret.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Learning the basics of what we all have to learn in life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That was "19 Kids and Counting" from TLC.
And live, the local Target at East Liberty, where a man attacks a teen girl, stabbing her multiple times, and it`s all caught on video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I seen him with the little girl. He just kept stabbing her. I just couldn`t stand there and watch that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s when at least two people inside rushed the knife-wielding man.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And live, tony East Haven, Connecticut. Police and rescue race to a family home to find a horrible gas leak accident claiming the lives of
two young children, ages just 6 and 7. But miraculously, Mommy survives. Then police realize Mommy posting Facebook photos of her children after
they`re dead and before police are called in.
In the last hours, police uncover a chilling letter from within the home near the tiny bodies.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My friend sent me a letter that she was going to kill herself!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The 36-year-old mother is now accused of killing her own kids, 6-year-old Alicia (ph) and soon to be 8-year-old Darren (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "I know this was meant to end the way it did. I don`t know the reason why, but we were meant to die today."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. The wildly popular TLC reality show "19 Kids and Counting" featuring the ultra-religious Duggar family in a tailspin after
one of the Duggars, Josh Duggar, now 27, three children of his own, accused of molesting young girls.
In the last hours, Josh Duggar backs out of a major public appearance to avoid public Q&A, as questions swirling tonight. Are there other victims
yet to be named? Why has Josh Duggar remained silent, allowing his mother and sisters to do the talking for him? Is he concerned anything he says
can and will be used against him in a court of law?
Straight out to Chloe Melas, senior reporter, Hollywoodlife.com. Also with us, let`s also go to Alan Duke, editor-in-chief, Leadstories.com.
OK, first to you, Chloe. What`s this business about Josh Duggar backing out of an appearance at -- it`s a Christian -- a pretty big Christian music
festival? Now, certainly, he wasn`t going to sing. So I understand he was going to be part of a public Q&A.
CHLOE MELAS, HOLLYWOODLIFE.COM: Yes.
GRACE: (INAUDIBLE) sound like a meet and greet?
MELAS: Exactly. So he was going to sign autographs, meet fans. But he and his wife are one of the main attractions at the Alive (ph) Christian
and Music Festival, which is supposed to be next week. He backed out. He`s not showing up. It`s unclear if the festival just canceled his
appearance or if he is officially backing out, but he`s not going to be there.
So if you were planning to go to see him, he`s not going to be there. But he hasn`t said anything. He really has his head in the sand right now,
Nancy.
GRACE: OK, you`re seeing a video. Let`s see that in full. You`re seeing where Josh Duggar was supposed to appear as, basically, a main attraction.
[20:05:02]This is the Alive Festival. This is video from YouTube. It`s a major, major Christian music festival. People come from all over the
country to go to these things, and Josh Duggar was to be one of the main attractions, including, if I`m not mistaken, Alan Duke, Leadstories.com,
Q&A with the public. What about that, Alan?
ALAN DUKE, LEADSTORIES.COM (via telephone): Oh, yes, that could have been very awkward and difficult for him, considering the circumstances, because
anybody can get in. I mean, you can go on the Web site and you can buy tickets and go. Although I will note that a general admission ticket is
$135, if you did want to go and ask him a question. But this will avoid that because it`s too sensitive right now.
GRACE: Well, you know, you say it`s too sensitive. Other people are arguing, what does he have to hide?
This is "19 Kids and Counting" from TLC.
Unleash the lawyers, Jay Apt, defense attorney, Atlanta, Peter Odom, defense attorney in Washington, D.C.
You know, Peter, very often, when I was prosecuting for so many years, I would get defense attorneys` business cards, and they would have written on
there, that I guess they give all their dope dealers and their child molesters and all their clients, Rule number one, do not speak. Rule
number two, do not speak.
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right.
GRACE: Rule number three, call me at this cell number. They would have that.
ODOM: Exactly.
GRACE: Now, Josh Duggar has just backed out of very -- apparently very lucrative appearance at the Christian music festival.
You`re seeing "19 Kids and Counting" right now.
Many people are wondering why? Why is he letting his mommy and his sisters do the talking for him? Is there a concern that anything he may say could
be held against him in a court of law?
ODOM: Well, if that`s the case, then they`re being overly cautious, Nancy, because all the statutes of limitations have lapsed. There`s no
possibility of prosecution and there`s no possibility of a civil suit, either. So he`s probably just worried about...
GRACE: Yes, you`re right about that.
ODOM: ... being embarrassed.
GRACE: You`re right about that. But here`s the thing. Let me go to you, Apt -- Jay Apt joining me, defense attorney out of Atlanta. Jay...
JAY APT, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes?
GRACE: ... if there`s nothing to lose, if there`s no reason legally that he can`t speak, if it`s all out on the table, if these are the only
victims, then why, why is he backing out of this major commitment?
APT: If, hypothetically, we know about all the victims and we know about all the evidence, and all of the statute of limitations have been exhausted
so that there`s no civil or criminal case involved, still, if I were his attorney or if I were his publicist, I would tell him, You`re not going to
be speaking publicly for the next year because we`re going to wait until the heat dies down.
GRACE: OK, take a look at this...
APT: We`re not going to be...
GRACE: ... everybody. This is the...
APT: We`re no going to expose you to public ridicule.
GRACE: This is the Christian music festival. It`s the Alive Festival. This is video off of YouTube. It`s got everything. It`s got music. It`s
got games, skateboarding, Christian meetings. Josh Duggar, and I think his wife, were going for a Q&A, a meet and greet, so to speak.
Now, here`s another interesting fact that we`ve learned. Alan Duke, editor-in-chief, Leadstories.com, joining me with Chloe Melas from
Hollywoodlife.com.
Chloe, is it true -- here`s "19 Kids and Counting" -- and I`m understanding, Chloe, that before the family gave their Fox interview to
Megyn Kelly on "The Kelly File" that they went to speak to a crisis control person, a PR person? Is that true, Chloe?
MELAS: Yes, this is true, Nancy. They are doing everything they can to try and save their image because what we`re hearing at Hollywoodlife.com is
that they do want to continue to do the show somehow. That`s TLC I`m speaking of and he Duggars.
Obviously, Josh will never see the light of day on TLC ever again because TLC is not going to put him back on television. But they are speaking to
crisis management people to try to save their show so that there is some sort of future for them because, Nancy, it made them a lot of money.
GRACE: Yes, let`s see some of "19 Kids and Counting."
Earlier, you saw Megyn Kelly of "The Kelly File" on Fox. I mean, the stress that must be involved in raising 19 children -- I mean, it`s like a
boot camp ever day.
Look inside this home, which was specifically altered after the allegations came forward that Josh had molested some of his little sisters.
Here`s my concern. I`m about to go to Marvet Britto, who`s president of Britto Agency, on crisis control. But Alan Duke, what we`re saying is that
before they go to give their interview on Fox, before they speak to police, before they speak publicly, they go to a crisis control person.
[20:10:09]DUKE: Yes, a long-time adviser to presidential candidate Mike Huckabee, by the way, who`s a friend of the family`s. And I don`t know how
that connection worked out. But they`re treating this like it is a political campaign crisis, sort of like maybe what the Clintons would have
faced, because they want to save their public image. They want to continue to be able to go to these Christian music festivals and get paid big bucks,
even if they aren`t on TLC on a reality show.
GRACE: Everybody, you`re seeing "19 Kids and Counting."
Joining me right now, Marvet Britto, brand strategist, president of Britto Agency. So coming clean -- why do you need a spin doctor to come clean?
MARVET BRITTO, PR AND BRAND STRATEGY (via telephone): They don`t need a spin doctor to come clean. At this point, I think that they`ve tried to
navigate the waters on their own and they haven`t really been able to shape the public`s opinion towards the restoration of the love of the family that
they`ve enjoyed all these years.
So they`ve hired a strategist, and they should have done it at the onset to make sure that they got proper strategic guidance and understood how to
properly communicate and navigate this very, very serious allegation.
So now at this point, they are trying to manage and shape perception, but it could be a little too late.
GRACE: You`re seeing "19 Kids and Counting."
Unleash the lawyers, Jay Apt and Peter Odom. Peter Odom, my whole point is we have looked and looked and looked to figure out how the adult children
make a living, all right? One -- what was it, Walmart that he worked at? One worked at Walmart and has quit in the wake of all of this. One worked
at a conservative think tank. And they make their living, for the most part, off this show.
ODOM: Yes. Nancy, it`s...
GRACE: So they`re going for a lucrative appearance, and he pulls out. Why?
You`re seeing "19 Kids and Counting" from TLC.
I`m going to defend them not in a coverup...
ODOM: I have nothing against them personally, Nancy.
GRACE: ... of child molestation, but what -- if you`re saying they`re the all-American family, could you name me one family, including your own, or
my own...
ODOM: But Nancy, the difference...
GRACE: I`m not through! I`m not through!...
ODOM: Sorry.
GRACE: ... that doesn`t have something they don`t want the world to know about. Just because they`re doing a reality show, does that mean that
they`ve got to put every single thing out there? I don`t. I don`t think that`s what that means.
ODOM: Nancy, you know as well as I do that they have portrayed themselves as a squeaky clean American family.
GRACE: True.
ODOM: That`s their image.
GRACE: So? So?
ODOM: And it`s a hypocrisy.
GRACE: Go to church on Sunday. Everybody you look at...
ODOM: I go to church every Sunday.
GRACE: ... is portraying that same image!
ODOM: Well, I think there`s a degree of hypocrisy that the American public is now seeing.
GRACE: Well, of course. Of course there is, but that`s not a felony.
Listen to "19 Kids and Counting."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nine of us girls (INAUDIBLE) we kind of pal around. We have Joy (ph) up there, Ginger (ph), little girls. Sometimes if there`s
a storm or something, they`ll pile in with one of us. And then we have a few girls` beds over to here.
A lot of conversation goes on here and fun times. It`s like having a bunking party every night. We just kind of share most everything,
especially when it comes to clothing, jewelry, hair stuff. It`s all shared.
During the day, we spend a lot of time in here. There`ll be a couple of us, you`ll find us in here studying or playing music. Jessa plays the
guitar.
I`m studying right now. I`m taking anatomy and physiology. So I`m spending a lot of time either in this room. or when this room gets a little
loud and crazy, then I go and I find an office or closet that`s available. And then in the evenings, we`ll come in here, just chill out and relax.
At night before we go to bed, it`s pretty crazy. It`s always lively. My dad will come in at times and he`ll be, like, OK, it`s really time to go to
bed now. And then, of course, you know, us older girls, it`s, like, we just talk and talk forever into the wee hours of the morning.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:18:11]UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is the story of my family. We`re the Duggars.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: More troubles for the Duggar family and their reality show, "19 Kids and Counting."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: America has now heard from two of Josh Duggar`s sexual molestation victims, his sisters.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And a lot of times, what we would do when they were young is we would make little note cards of praise, and we would take turns
going around the table, and each person would share a praise report about the other person.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: You`re seeing video of "19 Kids and Counting" from TLC.
Joining me right now is Erin Merryn, survivor of sex abuse. You hear these discussions about why would he not go to a Q&A, a lucrative Q&A and
avoid questioning, what is your response?
ERIN MERRYN, SURVIVOR OF SEXUAL ABUSE: Obviously, Nancy, he`s going to avoid questioning. He`s in the spotlight, and everyone`s going to want to
ask questions. Are there other victims? Why did you do this.
But the reality is, you know, we focus so much on Josh, we focus so much on Jim Bob and Michelle, when why aren`t we talking about these girls and what
this is doing to them?
This should have never been made public. Not only do these girls have to live with the fact, even if they don`t remember it, that their own brother,
somebody they loved and trusted, molested them.
And now watching their parents be judged up and down for their actions on how they handled this, and now on top of that, the entire world knows that
they were sexually abused. I mean, it`s devastating what this is doing to these girls. And that`s who I want to protect here.
I don`t want to sit here and talk about the perpetrator. I don`t want to sit here and judge Jim Bob and Michelle because what parent is perfect?
I`ve let them know they made mistakes. I`ve spoken to them. I don`t agree with how they handled the situation. They should have gone to the police
immediately. I would have removed Josh immediately from the home and never allowed him back in because he is a risk.
[20:20:06]But the reality is, what we need to be focusing on is how this is hurting these girls. They`ve already been victimized, and we`re continuing
to victimize these girls by putting this out there. You know, they may think that, you know, we might judge their parents on how they handled
this, what people need to understand, this is still their parents, their mother and their father. They love them. You know, they want to protect
their parents. They`re seeing their parents trashed up and down.
They don`t want to sit there and point the finger and say, You, you know, handled this the wrong way. This is their mom and dad we`re talking about.
I remember from my own experience being abused (INAUDIBLE) by a family member who happened to be the same age as Josh Duggar, and seeing how
devastated my parents were, watching my mom cry up and down, blaming herself, This is my fault, I should have seen the warnings signs.
So I put on that happy face and let Mom know I was OK because as a kid, I wanted to protect my parents from feeling like they already (INAUDIBLE)
failed, not wanting them to feel like they did even (ph) worse, you know, trying to make them understand that I`m going to be OK.
And I think that`s what these girls are doing. They`re trying to protect their parents from feeling any worse about the situation because Jim Bob
and Michelle know they did not handle this the proper way.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:25:16]GRACE: Live, the local Target at East Liberty, where a man attacks a teen girl, stabbing her multiple times, and it`s all caught on
video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the stabbings begin. Witnesses describe the terror as the man eventually stabbed the girl in the back and shoulder.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Candace Trunzo, senior news editor, Dailymail.com. Candace, I don`t know if you can see your monitor or not, but we`re showing
the viewers -- this guy comes into a Target and grabs a young teen girl and commences to stab her repeatedly. This is in regular business hours.
Onlookers try to stop him. There was no provocation whatsoever -- in the local Target, Candace. What happened?
CANDACE TRUNZO, DAILYMAIL.COM (via telephone): Unbelievable, unbelievable, Nancy. And this is some of the best video footage, CCTV footage I`ve ever
seen. It shows exactly what happened.
He gets into a fight outside of the Target. He`s chased by two of the men, one man he stabbed, two or three men, chased him into the Target. He runs
into the bathroom. Then he comes back out. He goes over to the checkout line, and he grabs a 16-year-old girl by the hair. He had the knife in his
hand, and he stabs her repeatedly. It`s unbelievable.
GRACE: Joining me right now is a special guest. It`s Glen Meadows. Glen is the father of this girl, Allison Meadows. Glen, thank you so much for
being with us.
GLEN MEADOWS, FATHER OF STABBING VICTIM (via telephone): Yes, ma`am.
GRACE: Glen, I want to go back to the day, the moment you learned your daughter had been stabbed at an innocent outing to Target. How did you
find out? What happened?
MEADOWS: Well, we`re there visiting, as we`ve made several visits. Our grandson had a triple organ transplant there at the children`s hospital, so
he`s in a rehab facility across town from where the incident happened.
And I`m sitting there holding him. And we had a dinner plan. They were going to pick me up. We were going to go to dinner, and they were late.
So I started calling them, didn`t get an answer, and called everybody, my daughter, my daughter-in-law, my wife.
And so finally, I get a call from my wife`s phone. Hey, honey, what`s up? You`re an hour late. And my daughter-in-law, Chelsea (ph), and she says,
Glen, you`re going to need to meet us at children`s hospital. Allison has been hurt.
And I`m, like, What? You know, what -- what -- you know, the first thing went through my mind was an automobile accident. I said, Chelsea, what --
what -- what`s going on? What -- what`s happened? Have you`ll been in a wreck or what? Glen, you just need to meet us at children`s. You remember
where Cooper had his surgery? You need to meet us there.
GRACE: OK, stop right here. Hold on, Glen, because I`m coming up on a break, and I`m going to come right back to you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:32:39] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`ve seen him with the little girl, he kept stabbing her, I just couldn`t stand there and watch it.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: That`s when at least two people inside rushed the knife wielding man.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: A teen girl goes into Target for a Target outing -- how many times have we done that -- and all of a sudden she`s attacked, a
knife attack by a man she doesn`t even know. The young girl, Allison, attacked by Raymond Walls, now 44 years old, comes into Target armed with a
weapon. This girl his victim.
And joining me a special guest tonight, her father is with us, Glen Meadows.
So, Glen, you were telling us that you were in town because you`ve got somebody else in the hospital that you guys are visiting, and nobody showed
up for dinner.
All right. Take it from right there. So they`re late to dinner. You`re expecting your daughter, your teen girl. What happens?
GLEN MEADOWS, FATHER OF VICTIM ALLISON MEADOWS: Right. So, you know, I finally got the phone call, and it`s, you know, my wife`s phone but it was
actually my daughter-in-law on the other line and she says, Glen, you`re going to need to meet us at the hospital. What? What`s going on? Well,
you need to meet us at the hospital. Do you remember where Cooper had his surgery, can you get there? Chelsea, what`s going on?
I thought it was an automobile accident, you guys been in a wreck? What`s going on. Glen, Allison is hurt, you need to meet us there. Finally I
said, Chelsea, I`ve got to know what`s going on. Glen, she`s been stabbed. So, you know, my heart stopped.
GRACE: OK. Right there, right there, Mr. Meadows, you just made a chill run down my whole left side, to hear -- she`s been stabbed. To hear that
about your child. What happened?
MEADOWS: Well, it just -- it`s like reality hadn`t caught up with what my ears just heard. I`m like she`s been stabbed? What do you mean she`s been
stabbed? A man has stabbed her several times. Well, is she -- she`s away from him now?
GRACE: No, wait. Now all of this is happening on the telephone?
MEADOWS: Yes.
GRACE: And you don`t understand the extent of it. You don`t know if she`s dead or alive at that point. All you know is you`re racing to children`s
hospital and your little girl has been stabbed. Did you find out she was stabbed at the Target?
[20:35:13] MEADOWS: Yes.
GRACE: Then why -- why were they at the Target? Why was Alison at the Target?
MEADOWS: Well, you know, you know how it is when you travel, and you forget a few things, and you need the shampoo you forgot, this, that and
the other, and you`re just there picking up, you know, those few things that -- you know, we`d just gotten into town.
GRACE: Every time I see that closed-circuit video of this guy, this Raymond Walls, pulling back and stabbing the girl with all of his force. I
think that was the stab that punctured her lung.
OK. So you hear Allison has been stabbed. Did you have any idea where, the circumstances surrounding it, you just heard she`s stabbed?
MEADOWS: Well, that`s all I heard. And she said you just need to, you know, get to the children`s hospital, so I turned to a nurse that was there
and handed my grandson off and I just started -- I was in a rental car across town, I don`t really know the city, I just start praying and you
know, I knew --
GRACE: I can only imagine that trip to the hospital praying. You`re seeing Allison`s blood on the floor of a Target after she is attacked
viciously. A deadly attack in Target. What I don`t understand is why this guy was out to start with.
I mean, unleash the lawyers, Jay Abt, Peter Odom. Take a look at this, everybody. The entries go on and on and on.
Justin Freiman, what can you tell me about his rap sheet?
JUSTIN FREIMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Nancy, he actually pled guilty, he`s found guilty of manslaughter, which is a pretty serious crime, and yet he
was out on the street and he ended up stabbing this woman, who`s innocently waiting in line at a Target.
GRACE: You know, did you just say he was already convicted on voluntary manslaughter?
FREIMAN: Yes, that`s right, Nancy.
GRACE: You know what`s so upsetting, Justin. Look at all of this. Probation violation, bench warrant, voluntary manslaughter. It goes on and
on and on. So many of these are dismissed, gang activity, dismissed, vandalism, dismissed, manslaughter and robbery, guilty, guilty. It goes on
and on and on.
Jay Abt, Peter Odom. First to you, Odom, why is this guy in the Target? Why do I have to worry when I`m in Target with my children about somebody
like Leone Raymond Walls jumping out with a knife?.
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I mean, you put your finger on it, Nancy. Because of the videotape, and by the way, that is some great
videotape, I don`t know that I`ve seen videotape as clear as that from a store video.
GRACE: Can you get -- let me get you back to the middle of the road, Peter.
ODOM: Right. So --
GRACE: Boy, you know what? Why is he out? He`s got a parole violation.
ODOM: Yes, well, you put your finger on it, Nancy, we know what happened. Now the question is why, why was he there, and that`s just going to have to
be answered at trial. It looks to me like there might be some mental health issues. You know, if we have a long, documented history of mental
health issues, that`s the kind of case where there might be a mental defense.
GRACE: OK. But, Jay Abt, what I see is a long rap sheet.
JAY ABT, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes. So, Nancy, you know, one of the things I have a problem with this case is a lot of not just defense lawyers but
prosecutors and judges are criminally handling him, and putting him through the system, when this guy should have been in a mental hospital for the
rest of his life. And that way he is not getting out, he`s paroling out.
GRACE: Well, what is it with you two? I get it.
Glen Meadows, father of the victim in this case, Allison meadows, whenever someone does something extremely heinous and we don`t understand it, it`s
always pegged a mental health issue. They`re insane. Just because we wouldn`t do it does not mean the defendant is insane, all right. And also
can I ask you, does it matter why he attacked your daughter in a Target? Does it matter why, what his motivation was? He stabbed her brutally in a
Target.
MEADOWS: I don`t know the answer to that. It`s -- you know, it is -- I mean, I sit and ponder that myself. And the other thing that was raised is
why he was out. But we are trying to follow through and we`re trying to do our very best to see that this doesn`t happen again and that he`s put
behind locked doors for a long time.
GRACE: Forever.
Let me ask you this, Mr. Meadows, I want to tell the viewers the rest of the story, and that is, you race across town to the children`s hospital and
what happened?
[20:40:12] MEADOWS: Well, from there, you know, I arrived at the emergency room and made my way back. They were expecting me, and I walked into a
room where they stopped me, but the room is filled with 25 to 30 emergency personnel in there working on her. And unfortunately I could hear her in a
lot of pain, and at the particular time I arrived, she was still being triaged, they still hadn`t completely got, you know, a full grip on all of
her injuries, and I unfortunately had to hear, you know, a lot of her in a lot of pain.
GRACE: And so what do you mean you had to hear her in a lot of pain?
MEADOWS: Well, there was a point in time that she was getting close to what I understand is respiratory distress from where the air in her lung
was filling her chest cavity and she was in a lot of pain. So I think at one point they had to put a chest tube in and pretty much had to be done in
a quick fashion without anesthesia. So unfortunately --
GRACE: She was in so much pain.
MEADOWS: I had to hear that. An so I -- very difficult. But, you know, at some point they completed her triage, and I got to go in, and I got to
actually speak to her, and speak to a couple of the doctors. And you know, at that point and that point only I learned that, A, my daughter was
probably going to live, and B, that it looked like that at least had a full grip around, you know, what her injuries were and they were devising a plan
to move forward to fix her.
GRACE: Mr. Meadows, you know, angels appear in many, many forms, the people that rushed to your daughter`s aid, the people that did not know her
but risked their own lives to pull her out of harm`s way tonight, thank you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:46:42] GRACE: Live, East haven, Connecticut, police and rescue race to a family home to find a horrible gas leak accident, claiming the lives of
two little children, age 6 and 7, miraculously, mommy survives. But then police realize mommy posting Facebook photos of her children after they`re
dead and before police are called.
In the last hours, police uncover a chilling letter from within the home near the tiny bodies.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A woman called 911 saying she got a letter from Moore who was claiming she was going to kill herself. Police were called
to the house on the corner of Strung and Hugh Street.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re talking to her on the phone and then when she told me she cut herself, hung up and called you guys.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: In the note found at the scene, Moore alleged wrote, quote --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They got to do all the things they wanted to do before they died today. My older kids escape the same fate because I was
too depressed to move and make it happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK. Steve Kalb, reporter at Connecticut Radio Network.
Steve, did I just mishear that? Did mom say, I would have killed my older two if I could have gotten a hold of them? DFACS had already taken the
older two away?
STEVE KALB, REPORTER, CONNECTICUT RADIO NETWORK: What we don`t know is whether or not she would have killed the other two if they were with the
younger two, at the time she killed the younger two.
GRACE: Well, hold on. Hold on.
KALB: But you are correct that -- you`re correct when you say that yes, she said that she would have killed the others if she wasn`t so depressed.
GRACE: Ashley Wilcott is the director at the Office of Child Advocate Protection of Children.
Ashley, there were -- there was an open file on this woman. Her children were taken away because she beat them brutally with what she called a happy
stick, it was the end of a mop. They were taken away, and she writes in this letter the only reason they escaped is because they got away. She
said they escaped me.
ASHLEY WILCOTT, OFFICE OF CHILD ADVOCATE PROTECTION OF CHILDREN: That`s right, Nancy. I mean, this is a case where, you know, in theory the
respective agencies screen parents to see is there any history of anything happening in the past. And the fact that her other two children`s rights
were terminated should have been a red flag to play a role in protecting these children.
GRACE: With me, Ashley Wilcott from Office of Child Advocate Protection of Children.
Steve Kalb, let`s get into the gas accident.
KALB: Well, what we understand, when police arrived, they could smell gas in the house, they went inside the house, and that`s when they found the
two dead children, who had been dead apparently for awhile. But we don`t know for how long. What we don`t know yet because the toxicology report
isn`t back yet, whether it was the gas that killed the children or whether it was the antidepressants and other drugs in the house that killed them.
GRACE: You know, you`re seeing scenes inside the family home, like so many homes in America, orderly, well kept. This is how police found it when
police and rescue raced to the scene to find the bodies of two little children, ages 6 and 7. They were dead from an accidental gas leak. But
tonight police believe it is no accident that mommy miraculously survives, her children dead from a freak gas accident.
[20:50:09] Listen to this 911 call. What do we learn?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 911, East Haven, what`s your emergency? Your apartment number?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, it`s a house.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. What`s going on over there.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My friend sent me a letter that she was going to kill herself and that her mom is the beneficiary --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, where does she live? Do you know?
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s where she live?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. She said she cut herself, but I can`t get in the house.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: CNN Heroes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EDWIN SABUHORO, CNN HERO: The first time I saw the gorilla, it was magical. I came in the park, immediately I saw a silver back. He sat
right there and looked straight in my eye, and felt something that I couldn`t define.
At the time I was finishing my law degree, but I felt I needed to get much closer to nature. I came to work as a ranger. I was in charge of
protecting the mountain gorillas. We had a lot of cases of poachers in the park.
I went to talk to the families and asked them, why are they killing gorillas? The old man looked at me and said your kids are starving to
death. Would you poach to feed your family? People are trying to look for a way to survive.
It was an eye-opening for me. So I thought of an idea of turning poaches to farmer and after that I thought I could do more here. How can we use
tourism to help communities improve their livelihood?
So we built a cultural village. We can sell with tourists our local food, our traditional culture, our ways of living, Tourists can give back to the
community then the communities will have an incentive to conserve the park.
I trained them how to do crafts, produce that you can put on the market. And that money, they take back to their families. They`re able to send
their kids to school, buy food, start businesses. They see why they need to protect the gorillas. Now poaches were working with rangers on how to
protect the park better.
The village became my life. We can`t afford to fail the wildlife. We have to make sure that we pass it on to the next generation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:56:31] GRACE: To Dr. Michael Arnall, forensic pathologist. Dr. Arnall, I don`t understand when the children were found their skin was
split open.
DR. MICHAEL ARNALL, BOARD CERTIFIED FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Nancy, the children are decomposing, bacteria is proliferating and basically consuming
the body. That`s decomposition. That`s why the doctors believe that the children have been dead for more than a day.
GRACE: To clinical psychologist Ramani Durvasula. Dr. Durvasula, she had been in the home with the dead bodies for 24 hours and was posting pictures
of them on Facebook? You know, it`s tempting to claim insanity. But knowing that she had beaten her other children and DFACS had taken them
away, that`s a whole new twist.
RAMANI DURVASULA, PH.D., CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes, I mean, Nancy, this was a woman who was not up to the demands of motherhood in anyway. The
system didn`t do what it was supposed to do in terms of monitoring. The fact that she stayed in the house with the body, that shows a complete lack
of insight, lack of judgment and may have been a psychotic episode.
All of those things are consistent with major mental illness. And the fact is, mental illness is a long gain. And there needs to be monitoring over
many, many decades when children have children. And that doesn`t happen. It`s just sort of a revolving door system and this is the tragic
consequence. It`s really but by the grace of God that her other two children made it out alive. And this is a tragic and unnecessary story.
GRACE: And -- so bottom line, Steve Kalb, police figure out that this is not an accidental gas leak, how?
KALB: What they`ll probably do because Southern Connecticut gas has already been in there. Southern Connecticut gas said there is no
appearance of a leak anywhere. So I think what will probably wind up happening is the police will go through step by step just to ensure that
there isn`t something in the home that --
GRACE: Well, didn`t the letter say found by the bodies? She gave them their favorite foods and sent them to heaven?
KALB: Yes. She said that she had given them what they had wanted and they had had everything they ever wanted before they died.
GRACE: We remember American hero, Army Specialist Dennis Sampson Jr., 24, Hisperia, Michigan. Bronze Star, Purple Heart. Loved running, and his
Native American heritage. And traveling. Parents Dennis Senior and Dawn. Brother Dana, sister Mickey.
Dennis Sampson, Jr. American hero.
And happy birthday to Jan Patterson Grace, wife and proud mom of Sam and Dan. Workout fanatic, loves the Allman brothers and Johnny Cash. Happy
birthday.
And happy birthday to world class coach Joan Hudges. Isn`t she beautiful?
And tonight, a heartfelt good luck to our superstar Steven, working around the clock to dig up documents, wrap sheets, research, also a newlywed
leaving our show to live his dream to be a writer. Walk slow and hurry up, friend.
Drew up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
