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Nancy Grace
Couple Goes Missing on Morning Commute. Aired 8-9:00p ET
Aired June 24, 2015 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live to Arizona. A young Maricopa couple leave together as usual for work Monday morning 5:00 AM.
They`re never seen again.
Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, their car, covered in mud, found abandoned on the side of the road. There are three young children at
home left alone. Tonight, what happened to Tina and Michael Careccia?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... couple, Michael and Tina Careccia disappeared. More than 70 people fanned out across this rural part of Maricopa tonight.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They are not the kind of couple that just would leave.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators found their abandoned car here, and only about a mile from their home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And live, Indiana. An Evansville mom, caught on video, tells her little baby tot girl, just 12 months old, to play with, handle, put a
gun in her mouth as Mommy laughing, chuckling, egging the baby on in the background. We have the video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bang, bang.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bang.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bang, bang.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Say, Pow, pow.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Pow, pow, pow.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shoot that thing, baby.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Pow, pow, pow.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Miami Beach. Did a so-called man of God molest a little girl, then pay hush money to Mommy to keep it all quiet? And is this the payoff
caught on video? We have the video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the video, you can see a man who witnesses say is Rabbi Steve Caro (ph), walking up and handing an envelope to a woman.
Her daughter, police say, was molested by this rabbi.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s enough (INAUDIBLE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight, to Arizona. A young Maricopa couple leave together as usual for work on Monday morning, 5:00 AM. They disappear, never seen
again. Their car, covered in mud, found abandoned in the last hours on the side of the road, their three young children at home alone. Tonight, what
happened to Tina and Michael?
Straight out to Valerie Paraso, reporter/anchor KFYI. I don`t get it. This couple like clockwork, no marital discord, they leave every morning
around 5:00 AM for their commute. That`s just what they did. They`re very neat, very organized with the travel mug and their music they listen to on
their favorite radio stations in the car to make that commute bearable.
They haven`t been seen again. What do we know, Valerie?
VALERIE PARASO, KFYI (via telephone): Well, right now, we know that they did leave to go to work at 5:00 AM. The boss says that the mother,
Tina, never showed up for work. And their car was found within walking distance of their home, covered in mud. The son says that`s not like his
dad. His dad kept the car meticulously clean. Some (ph) within walking distance -- people have been looking for them ever since. No sign of this
couple. It`s very bizarre.
GRACE: You know, another thing about this, there was no marital discord that we know of, and we`ve tried to uncover it, these two extremely
happy in their marriage. And when Valerie with KFYI says the dad was a fanatic about the car, that`s true. He was a neatnik, and she goes along
with it. They keep the car absolutely spotless, I guess, because of their every morning commute they`ve got together.
But when the car was found, the car totally filthy, covered in mud, not far from their home. They never make it to work. Imagine leaving,
like we all do every day -- you go to work, or you try to go to work -- your family never sees you again.
All day long, your children think Mommy`s at work, Daddy`s at work, but then dinnertime comes. It`s time for supper. Nobody comes home.
Who`s cooking dinner? Where is everybody? Where`s Mommy? Mommy never comes home. Daddy never comes home. Then you find out they never even
made it to work?
Another problem with that is the lead time. How long are police lagging behind because nobody knew that they were missing?
[20:05:03]Joining me right now is a very dear friend of this couple.
For those of you just joining us, look at these two. They leave at 5:00 AM on Monday morning, as usual, for their morning commute together.
They`re never seen alive again. Children back at the house have no idea something`s horribly, horribly wrong. They report it that evening around
suppertime. The mommy doesn`t come home to make supper.
With me Francesca Lever, a dear friend of the missing couple, Michael and Tina. Francesca, thank you for being with us.
FRANCESCA LEVER, FAMILY FRIEND (via telephone): Absolutely. It`s my pleasure.
GRACE: Francesca, what do you know?
LEVER: I know as much as we (INAUDIBLE) told to (INAUDIBLE) authorities and to everybody else that`s out here helping. We have set up
a command station at Raceway Bar and Grill here in Maricopa. The owners are so gracious enough to let us, you know, get donations get dropped off
here.
We`ve had search and rescue crews go out from yesterday. We were all out last night and continued against at 5:00 AM this morning. And we are
not going to stop until our friends are home with their children. They have five children between the both of them, and they are two of the most
loving, caring people that you would ever be so gracious (ph) to meet.
GRACE: I`m very concerned, Francesca. We haven`t been able to hear anything about tracking their cell phones, any pings. Let`s go on
behavioral evidence. These two never miss work. They never lay (ph) out of work. They both leave typically around 5:00 AM every morning. Do they
always ride together, Francesca?
LEVER: Usually, yes. I mean, they have the one car, so you know, they will carpool if they have to do something in town because it is a
little bit of a hike to get into Phoenix and to go into that area from where we are. But...
GRACE: So how long is...
(CROSSTALK)
LEVER: ... we`ve done nothing but expand (ph) our efforts, and it`s been so amazing to see how a small community can come together for people
that they don`t even know and it`s -- you know, it`s -- it`s great that the family has this kind of reassurance that there are good people in this
world that still care.
GRACE: I want to get the facts out and figure out what we know so we can analyze what may have happened to them and ultimately bring them home.
Francesca, do you know how far their commute is in the morning?
LEVER: You know what? They were supposed to go in to a meeting in Chandler (ph), and that`s probably maybe a 30-minute ride. You know, like
I said, their son found the car later on that evening (INAUDIBLE) when everything (ph) started to get a little worried, so they contacted the
authorities.
And you know, the authorities are working on it, but we -- you know, there`s only so much the authorities can do. So we got together as a
community, and I (INAUDIBLE) it out on Facebook, and you know, used social media to get a group together, and you know, tell everybody, Hey, we`re
organizing down here. Let`s get (INAUDIBLE) all-terrain vehicles, horses. We have helicopters coming out, drones coming out. We have search dogs
that are out right now.
And these are all just people in the community. This has nothing to do with authorities. This is...
GRACE: So search dogs...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... horseback, shoulder to shoulder searching for this couple. They leave for the morning commute, never seen again.
Joining me right now, president, founder of Klaas Kids Foundation Marc Klaas. Marc, what do you make of the circumstances surrounding their
disappearance?
MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: Well, Nancy, it`s obvious that these people are probably victims of foul play. I mean, there`s nothing in
their background to suggest that they would have -- that they would have left on their own volition.
GRACE: No. No.
KLAAS: It also looks very much like their car was probably driven off road, which would indicate that they may be somewhere in the desert.
The only thing I would really counsel against -- and I think that Francesca`s doing a marvelous job -- would be searching at night. It
limits your visibility and your possibilities so much. I would really counsel doing most of your searching during daytime hours.
GRACE: You know, another thing. This couple were high school sweethearts, and they`ve been together for quite a while.
My question is about that morning commute. I want to go back -- when you don`t know where to go, you start back at the beginning. This couple
leaves every morning, 5:00 AM. They drive to work together. They share a car. It`s totally out of the ordinary for them to miss work.
And another factor here, Marc Klaas, is it`s not just the whim of one person because, Marc, you and I both have covered cases where the man goes
out for a loaf of bread and he turns up 25 years later, living in the islands with a whole new family. No. In this case, you`ve got two people,
a mother and a father, and that would mean that both of them have to make the conscious decision to abandon their families. No.
[20:10:02]They were both were on the way to a business appointment. Dinner was planned for later that evening. There`s a series of facts that
tell me they did not leave on their own volition, Marc Klaas.
KLAAS: No, there`s no question about that at all, Nancy, which makes it a daunting task for everybody involved. They need to continue to do the
searches, both the volunteer searches and the official searches by the sheriff and his search and rescue people.
But law enforcement needs to do straight-up detective work. They need to look for known enemies, perhaps illicit drug use. They need to canvass
their neighborhood, talk to family, friends and neighbors. They need to run forensics on their computers. They need to look for credit card or
cell phone activity, and they need to check out local surveillance cameras and hope that with all of that, something will turn up and lead them into
the direction of what happened.
GRACE: Clark Goldband, what other fact do we know?
CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, it`s important to point out that this was not an extremely rural area where this took place,
OK? There were some local businesses surrounding where this vehicle was found.
Here`s what we know, Nancy. Our team called some of these places. There`s one bar and grill, which is actually where the search headquarters
is, that has multiple surveillance cameras. However, those cameras are not pointing out towards the road, Nancy. They are pointed towards the
establishment. Therefore, potential surveillance may be lost, Nancy. There is a chance, Nancy -- we`ve seen this time and time again -- there
are cameras in the area.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:16:06]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Searching in canals, washes and cornfields. Couple Michael and Tina Careccia have disappeared. Their
abandoned car found only about a mile from their home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The car looked kind of dirty, you know, kind of dusty, and not typical, you know, keys not in it, all the doors unlocked,
you know? But very strange, very strange.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: The car was a 2008 grayish-silver Honda Accord that was found abandoned on the side of the road, covered in mud. The tip line for this
couple -- they head out on their morning commute, they are never seen again -- 520-866-5111. Repeat, 520-866-5111. There is a reward.
Imagine you leave in the morning for your daily commute, and your children never see you alive again. Well, that`s what has happened to this
couple. Michael and Tina go missing around 5:00 AM Monday morning.
Another issue that`s very disturbing to me -- Valerie Paraso, joining me, anchor KFYI. Is it true the mother`s pocketbook was at the house?
PARASO: Yes. That`s something that I thought was pretty strange, too, but the purse -- her purse was actually found inside the house. Now,
I don`t know about you, but I never go anywhere, anywhere, without my purse.
GRACE: OK, see, that one fact is very troubling to me. Valerie, did she take her cell phone with her?
PARASO: The cell phones -- from what I understand, the cell phones are off, and so I`m not sure if they took the cell phones with them or not,
but they`re not having any luck tracking them because the cell phones are off.
GRACE: OK, the reality is, there`s no way to track a cell phone if the phone is turned off. My question, though, would be, Marc Klaas, Klaas
Kids Foundation, when were the cell phones turned off? Did they ping at any time that morning? And have they been recovered? Were they still in
the car and the mom and dad are out of the car? Or do they have their cell phones somewhere and they`re merely turned off?
KLAAS: Well, Nancy, it seems unusual that somebody would drive around with their cell phone turned off. It also seems unusual, as the previous
guest said, that she would leave her pocketbook behind.
So that indicates the very real possibility that somebody was laying in wait either in the house or just outside the house the morning that they
disappeared. And that`s where the actual crime occurred. Obviously, this is something that law enforcement will be investigating.
GRACE: You know, Valerie Paraso, KFYI, what about the house, all right? Has the house been searched as if it could be a crime scene?
PARASO: Well, I know that police are certainly looking into that, and they`re looking into all possibilities. From what I understand, they`ve
searched the house. They have searched in the desert. No sign of a struggle outside of that car, is what we`re hearing. So who knows at this
point.
GRACE: OK, wait. Wa-wait! You just said no sign of a struggle outside the car. Was there a sign of a struggle inside the car?
PARASO: Not that we`ve heard from authorities.
GRACE: I`ll tell you what`s hanging me up, Valerie, is that her pocketbook was in the home. Why would she leave for all day at work
without her pocketbook? Now, if she took her cell phone and her -- maybe she had a little pouch, like a lot of ladies carry. They don`t have take
their whole purse. Maybe she had that. Do you know if the cell phones have been recovered or if they`re missing and turned off?
PARASO: I do not know if the cell phones have been recovered at this point. I do not believe law enforcement has shared that with us.
[20:20:07]GRACE: OK. Back to you -- Francesca Lever joining us, a dear friend of the missing couple. Francesca, did she normally take her
pocketbook with her when she goes to work or wherever she goes?
LEVER: Yes, but you know, like you said (INAUDIBLE) they do have, like, little clutches and stuff, which you know, could be the case.
GRACE: How about cell phones?
LEVER: The whole story is just odd, the whole entire thing, and...
GRACE: Right. Cell phone -- does she take her cell phone with her, Francesca? Does she carry her cell phone with her at all times?
LEVER: Yes.
GRACE: Do you know, Francesca, what -- were the cell phones recovered? Were her credit...
LEVER: No, ma`am.
GRACE: OK. Do we know -- you don`t know, or they were not recovered?
LEVER: They were not recovered.
GRACE: Not recovered. That`s good to know because if their cell phones -- if her cell phone was sitting at the house, I would say this is
all wrong, that maybe she was never even in the car. But if she took her cell phone with her, all right, that makes more sense to me. I`m still
troubled by the fact she didn`t take her pocketbook.
So question to you, Francesca. They`ve been together a long time. They dated in high school. Is there any suggestion of marital discord
whatsoever?
LEVER: Absolutely not. They were two of the happiest people ever. I mean, the fact that the world works in mysterious ways and after all those
years apart, they came back together, and -- you know, it`s a fairy tale. And that`s why it`s hard to believe that anybody would want to hurt two
amazing people.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:25:33]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Pinal County sheriff`s office already admits circumstances around their disappearance seem suspicious.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All the doors unlocked, you know? But very strange, very strange.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s just hard for me to grip that they`re just gone from that one secluded place, where it`s really not secluded, it`s a
busy intersection.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s a bunch of us that don`t know them that came out today. And it was just a small community and people like to help.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They`re not the kind of couple that just would leave.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s just hard for me to grip that they`re just gone from that one secluded place, where it`s really not secluded, it`s a
busy intersection.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK, that brings me to another concern.
For those of you just joining us, this young couple leaves in the morning together on their morning commute, 5:00 AM, as usual. They`re got
their coffee. They`ve got their coffee mugs. They`ve got everything together to ride in their one car together. And they`re never seen again,
the car found pushed off the side of the road covered in mud. The dad is known to be an extreme neatnik and car buff when it comes to his Honda. It
certainly didn`t look like that when they found the car.
But we`ve got another piece of the puzzle. Mommy leaves her pocketbook at home? Neither cell phone has been recovered, so they`re not
in the car. Were they with them?
But what did I just hear, Valerie Paraso, anchor, KFYI, that the house was unsecured? I`m just -- I`m extrapolating here that if he is a neatnik
and likes everything in its place, would he leave the home unlocked?
PARASO: Well, people that know them say it`s very unlikely that they would have left the car unlocked, so I can only surmise that, yes, probably
going to be unlikely that they would leave the house unlocked. I mean, this is metropolitan Phoenix. Nobody leaves their house unlocked.
GRACE: Whoa! The car was unlocked, too, Valerie?
PARASO: Yes, that`s what friends of the family have said, that the car was unlocked...
GRACE: OK, that is all wrong.
Marc Klaas, who`s going to leave your car on the side of the road unlocked and your home unlocked? You know, they have five children. Three
of them were in the house, it`s my understanding. Why would you leave your home unlocked with your three most valuable treasures in there, your
children? Uh-uh!
KLAAS: Nancy, I completely agree. It does seem highly unlikely. You know, Nancy...
GRACE: Something ain`t right.
KLAAS: You`re exactly right. In fact, this has shades of the McStay case, I think. I mean, it`s people who disappear without a trace. It`s a
vehicle that`s found in a separate location. It`s in the desert. This is a very troubling situation.
GRACE: But I can tell you this, Marc. These two did not walk off on their own. I`m not suggesting in any sense that that`s what happened. I`m
suggesting that, possibly, this whole thing goes back to the house, that the car is not the primary and only crime scene because that house was not
left the way Daddy and Mommy normally leave it.
For those of you listening, who would leave with your children in the home? You leave at 5:00 AM, they`re asleep, and you don`t even look the
door?
Caryn Stark, psychologist out of New York. For the children -- the one we saw speaking earlier -- he`s a very, very young teen -- to not know
the -- did Mommy and Daddy leave? Who has them? Are they dead or alive? Weigh in.
CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: Nancy, that`s the worst thing that could happen because that uncertainty isn`t something that children can cope
with. And so that`s a very good point. The children need to have people around them to be explain -- to try to explain that they`re not alone, to
make sure that there are people they could count on, as much support as possible, and to keep things in very simple and hopeful terms.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:34:00]
GRACE: Live. Indiana, an Evansville mom caught on video telling her baby tot girl, just 12 months old, to play with, handle, and put a gun in
her mouth as mommy is laughing and chuckling in the background, egging the baby girl tot on. We have the video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Say bang. Shoot. Shoot. Bang. Pow, pow, pow.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shocking video of a 1-year-old girl authorities say is brandishing a real 40 caliber handgun.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Say pow, pow.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Pow, pow.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The young girl egged on to fire the weapon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: To Kevin Bessler, reporter with WIKY, this video is disgusting. Look, did you just see the baby put the gun in her mouth and
mommy is laughing?
[20:35:00]
This is not a toy gun. This is a real gun, Kevin.
KEVIN BESSLER, WIKY: Yes, it is. It`s a real gun that police found and confiscated.
GRACE: So Kevin Bessler, WIKY, this would never have come to light. Oh, the baby is putting it in her mouth again. If daddy had not had this
video on his cell phone. Kevin Bessler, is it true the couple has more children?
BESSLER: Yes. This child that`s in the video is not Michael Barnes` child, but the couple have a set of twins together that are less than a
year old.
GRACE: Let`s see mommy. Oh, there she is doing selfies. Oh, hi, Kim Kardashian. Okay. Unleash the lawyers. Peter Odom, defense attorney out
of Washington, out of Atlanta, David Lee Windecher, defense attorney and author of the "American Dream," his story in the making. Peter Odom, let`s
hear your defense of mommy.
ODOM: Well, I mean, the best defense she`s going to be able to put up for something that`s caught on tape here, she`s not going to be able to
deny that it was she that was egging the baby on, is that the gun wasn`t loaded so the baby wasn`t really in danger.
GRACE: How do you know the gun wasn`t loaded?
ODOM: Well, there`s really no way to tell whether the gun was loaded or not. And Nancy, the only way the baby was in danger is if the gun was
loaded. Now, I`m not saying that it`s good to give your baby a gun, but if the gun was not loaded, the baby was not in danger.
GRACE: Sorry, I had to shut my mouth for a moment. It was hanging open.
ODOM: And it`s up to the state to prove that the gun was loaded.
GRACE: So Peter Odom, out of the gate, OK, out of the gate, you say, she really didn`t do anything because the gun wasn`t loaded. She didn`t do
anything wrong.
ODOM: Nancy, you`ve misquoted me.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Oh, no, what?
ODOM: You asked me what her best defense is and I told you what her best defense is.
GRACE: That`s true, but what if that defense is not grounded in facts, David Lee Windecher?
WINDECHER: All we have is the video. We don`t have the gun.
GRACE: What is your point that we don`t have the actual gun?
WINDECHER: We don`t know if it is a pellet gun like she claimed it to be.
GRACE: Put him up. Are you actually serious?
WINDECHER: Yes. Absolutely. We don`t have an actual weapon.
GRACE: You are telling me it`s not a gun?
WINDECHER: It looks like a gun. Pellet guns look very real nowadays. You can go to Walmart, Walgreens, you can buy a weapon that`s a pellet gun,
an air gun, and it looks exactly like a firearm. We don`t have the actual firearm. All we have is a video.
GRACE: OK. Let me ask you this, are you -- your defense, the two of you -- let`s pretend you`re co-counsel. I can`t decide who is going to be
the lead counsel in this.
ODOM: Me.
GRACE: So David, can we see the video again? This is actually a pellet gun, and therefore, it`s okay. And Odom`s defense is, it`s not
loaded, but maybe it is. Those are my two defenses?
(CROSSTALK)
WINDECHER: Go ahead, Peter.
ODOM: Look, the state has to prove that it`s a real gun. The state has to prove that that baby was in danger.
GRACE: I can see the gun. Peter, I can see the gun.
ODOM: You can see what looks like a gun.
GRACE: And I can see what looks like a baby. What are you going to tell me next? It`s a baby doll from Target?
ODOM: Nancy, you and I are lawyers, we`re not firearms experts. So let`s hear what the state is going to put up.
GRACE: I can (inaudible) for you and me, we are firearm experts because we had to train to be in the district attorney`s office. We had to
practice shooting and we handled tons of gun cases, so we actually are experts, and that is a gun.
Dr. Tim Gallagher, forensic pathologist joining us out of Daytona Beach. Dr. Gallagher, the lawyers are making an issue that it even could
be a pellet gun. But the reality is, if this gun is loaded, as police think it may have been, it`s a 40 caliber, what would one 40 caliber bullet
do if this child had actually pulled the trigger while the gun was in her mouth?
GALLAGHER: This 40 caliber gun could easily blow her head off her neck, Nancy. She would die instantaneously if she pulled that trigger. I
am sorry to be so graphic, but it`s the truth.
GRACE: It is the truth, and I don`t appreciate people making light of it. Guns and children don`t mix. But even a pellet, a pellet, Dr.
Gallagher -- I remember my brother, my older brother. A neighbor had a pellet gun and was playing with it, and it went off and shot him in the
eye. But this baby, if it was a pellet gun, which it`s not, it`s 40 caliber, even a pellet going through this child`s brain, what would happen?
GALLAGHER: Nancy, you have to remember, that child`s bones are not as hard as an adult bone.
[20:40:00]
The pellet could easily go through the skull bones and enter into the brain and either cause death or a permanent brain injury.
GRACE: Kevin Bessler, WIKY, what do we know about the gun? Do we know what kind of a gun it is?
BESSLER: We do not. We just know it is a handgun. I`m not sure the caliber of it, but police say it is a real gun. It`s not a pellet gun.
GRACE: So police say it is a real gun. Mark Klaas, I want to hear you weigh in on this. By what our experts tell us, it`s a 40 caliber.
KLAAS: Listen. Exactly. And I don`t think it matters whether it is a bebe gun, a pellet gun, or a real gun. You don`t leave a firearm around
for a 1-year-old child to be able to pick up and play with. She was just this close. She was encouraged to shoot the gun. The gun was left in her
care. She could have put her eye out, as has happened in a movie, "The Christmas Story." She could have killed herself. It`s teaching her
horrible life lessons. It shows an unbelievable irresponsibility on the part of the adults that are in her life. This is a tragedy waiting to
happen.
GRACE: We`re taking a look at mommy right now. There she is. I think that was with a younger child. Keep going. You`re taking a look at
the mom in this case, Tony Wilson (ph). Now age 23, I believe. She is the one you hear in the background egging her baby on with a 40 caliber weapon.
Now, I`ve got to hand it to Odom and Windecher. What can you do when your client is caught on video? You have to think fast. What can you argue?
This was a toy gun? Of course it was not. It wasn`t loaded. Maybe it was. Maybe it`s a pellet gun. Does it really matter? But what else can
you do? Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bang, bang.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bang. [ bleep ]. Say bang. Shoot. Shoot. Bang. Bang. Bang. Bang. Shoot that thing, fat baby. Pow, pow, pow,
pow.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Pow, pow, pow.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Say pow, pow.
Say pow, pow.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Pow, pow. Pow.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:47:00]
GRACE: Live. Miami Beach. Did a so-called man of God molest a little girl and then pay hush money to mommy to keep it all quiet, and is
that payoff caught on video? We have the video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 55-year-old rabbi Steve Carro (ph) out of jail admitting he hugged the 11-year-old girl, but it wasn`t molestation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very simple. It was love, harmony, cleansing, nothing else.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There appears to be an exchange of an envelope. This exchange according to the mother was days before Carro would be
arrested.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Love, harmony? Maybe love, harmony, and fondling a child. According to police. David Mack, syndicated talk show host, what, explain
to me what I`m seeing right now. We`re looking at grainy surveillance video, where the mom is with the so-called man of God. It looks like he`s
giving her an envelope.
MACK: Yes, he`s handing her an envelope of hush money, Nancy. I`m glad you`re pointing out this man of God in quotes, because this is not a
godly man. It is a horrible example of a human being. He`s handing her hush money, $500, that she immediately takes to the police and turns in.
GRACE: Allegedly, this is hush money. It`s my understanding mommy doesn`t even open the envelope. She goes straight to police with the
envelope. What happened?
ZARRELL: Yes, apparently from what the mother`s attorney tells us, when the mom got the envelope, she didn`t do anything. She brought it
straight to the police station. Together they opened it. The attorney says there was $500 cash inside the envelope.
GRACE: Also, back to Dr. Tim Gallagher out of Daytona, the defense could argue just about anything here. That mommy switched out the
envelopes, that he gave her a birthday card and then she takes this to police, but you can check the DNA on the envelope, in the seal portion of
the envelope where you typically lick it. Right?
GALLAGHER: You`re right. His DNA could be found inside the envelope and on the alleged material that`s inside of it as well as the DNA in his
saliva that he used to close the envelope.
GRACE: Joining me in addition to Peter Odom, Caryn Stark, David Lee Windecher, Jeff Herman, joining us, attorney for the alleged victim here
out of Boca Raton. Jeff, what do we know?
JEFF HERMAN, ATTORNEY: Nancy, the back story on this envelope is that after the mom reports the allegations to the police, she receives a phone
call from another rabbi who tells her that according to the Torah, she could get compensation and everything would go away. The mom says, no,
it`s too late. I`ve already reported it. He tells her, no, you can tell them you`re not interested and take the money. The mom says I`ll call you
back. She never does. He tries to reach her again, she does not answer the phone call. And then at some point later, Rabbi Carro shows up with
this envelope. I can`t really comment on what the purpose of that envelope was other than the fact that he shows up with the envelope, and then of
course we know she takes it to the police.
[20:50:00]
GRACE: Let me understand this. You`re telling me that another so- called man of God calls mommy and says, hey, hey, hey, hey, you can get money for this but don`t go to police. Is that what you`re telling me,
Jeff Herman?
HERMAN: The rabbi says you can get money, you can stop this. The mom says no, it`s too late. It`s out of my hands. Exactly, Nancy. And he
responds no, you can stop it and get some money.
GRACE: You know, David Lee Windecher and Peter Odom, Jeff Herman, also to you, Windecher, the rabbi, the so-called man of god is saying that
the cash money he gave mommy was for something different, not for a bribe. It was not hush money when he molested her child, the little girl, that
mommy knows what the money is for. Why doesn`t he tell me what the money was for if it was for something innocent? Why doesn`t he tell me what the
money was for?
WINDECHER: We don`t know the prior relationship between the mother and the rabbi. If I was the rabbi`s counsel, I would say don`t make any
statements. And what stands out to me, Nancy, most here is, who gives hush money in public at a clerk -- in front of a cash register? You know what
stands out to me most? Is that she allowed the rabbi to hug another child that she brought. If she is so concerned about her child being
inappropriately groped by this rabbi, why would she let him hug the child that she brought there to allegedly grab hush money? It doesn`t make any
sense.
ODOM: Very good point.
GRACE: Very often people don`t know how to respond. And I think both of you gentlemen will agree with me, I don`t know if you`ll admit it on
air, that very often victims don`t know how to act around perpetrators that have a position of authority. Such as, you know, a female prosecutor and
the judge makes the move on her during the middle of a trial. What do you do? Do you get a mistrial? Do you make a big stink about it? What do you
do. It`s a judge for Pete`s sake. In this case, this is her rabbi. Now one thing that you Windecher said that struck a nerve with me is handing
over the money in public. What do you think about that, Odom?
ODOM: Two things we`ve got to keep in mind. Nancy, first of all, he`s been arrested for molestation, he`s denied it, and right now he`s
presumed innocent. He said this is innocent conduct. Now that kind of innocent conduct could occur between a rabbi and a parishioner. So right
now, I think we have to let the presumption of innocence apply. This will all get looked at in the courtroom. Now let me make my second point. You
asked a question.
GRACE: Now, you took a breath, and I consider that to be a period at the end of a sentence. Now, you said that this happens in the normal
course like priest/parishioner. Can I ask you now, as I recall, you are now an Episcopalian. Now, has your pastor or priest, minister, whatever
it`s called, has he ever given you $500 cash in a sealed envelope? I`m just interested?
ODOM: No. But I will tell you this, it`s common for churches to give money to parishioners when they`re going through troubled times. And
remember that --
GRACE: Let`s ask Jeff Herman. He knows the mom. Let`s find out. What about it, Jeff Herman?
HERMAN: I can`t comment on the video and what transpired, other than, you know, it speaks for itself. But I do want to clarify, Nancy, that
child that you see being hugged in the video, it has no relationship to the mother. That`s just another (inaudible) in the restaurant.
GRACE: Sorry about that, Windecher. Good point. Caryn Stark, why would the mom act normal in a public place with this rabbi that she says
molested her 11-year-old little girl?
STARK: And I think it`s exactly what you said, Nancy. He is in a position of authority. That`s also important when it comes to the little
girl. It`s very important for her to not blame herself. You`re there with somebody who you`re supposed to be trusting. And I think it might have
been extremely baffling to understand what was happening, how you`re supposed to act and what she was doing with the envelope.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:58:30]
GRACE: Let`s remember American hero, Army Specialist Paul Beyer, just 21. Jamestown, North Dakota. Bronze Star, Purple Heart. Loved camping,
rock music, movies. A high school scholarship and memorial statue in his hometown named in his honors. Parents Scott and Joleen (ph), brothers,
Daniel and Jonathan. Sister Leah, widow Calley (ph). Paul Beyer. American hero.
Another hero tonight, Colorado police officer Rick Struck (ph), look at him here. Comforting a two-year-old little toddler girl all alone after
a fatal crash in the family car. Her daddy killed instantly. Mommy and three siblings injured. Officer Struck, a father, singing "Twinkle Twinkle
Little Star" to the little girl, just like he would his own little girl when she cries.
And tonight, happy anniversary to our superstars Shayzon and husband Michael. Proud, loving parents of London and Arlington. Aren`t they
beautiful? And also PS, happy birthday, Shayzon. Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
