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Nancy Grace
Murder Plot or Movie Script?. Aired 8-9:00p ET
Aired July 13, 2015 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, Park Township, Michigan. When the dead, frozen body of her long-time beau is discovered,
police naturally question his grieving sweetheart, Maryann Castorena. But when they find a letter in her handwriting detailing a grisly murder
similar to her fiance`s, she claims it`s just a movie script she`s been writing.
Wonder if that script includes details about the $1.1 million life insurance policy? Tonight, we have the letter.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was hit over the head at least five times and left to die. He was found hours later in the snow.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m still going to maintain my innocence.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hernandez had a $1.25 million life insurance policy. Castorena was the beneficiary.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m not a money-hungry person! That hurts!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And live, Pennsylvania suburbs. In a parent`s worst nightmare, neighborhood parents in shock when their 10-year-old daughters
come home from a little classmate`s sleepover in tears, claiming between popcorn and kid movies, they were sex molested. Did the 36-year-old
sleepover dad sex molest little 10-year-old girls under his own roof?
Bombshell tonight. Cops alerting all the parents at Russell Struble Elementary School, fearing there may be even more 10-year-old victims.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Charges of molesting two girls.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Accused of inappropriately touching two 10-year- old girls at his daughter`s sleepover.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say the sexual assaults happened at Huebsch`s home over the course of a year-and-a-half.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s my belief that there are other victims out there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And live, Exton, Pennsylvania, to an all-boys private academy, the Church Farm School. Police say it wasn`t just a fling, but instead, a
female English teacher has nearly a year of sex with a boy student, including love letters and multiple trysts in cars and local hotels.
The 35-year-old English teacher, Sarah O`Neill, denies the claims. But what about that steamy love letter she mistakenly leaves on the school
printer? Oops!
Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being us.
Bombshell tonight. To Park Township, Michigan, where the dead, frozen body of her long-time beau is discovered. Police naturally question his
grieving sweetheart, Maryann. But when they find a letter in Maryann`s handwriting detailing a grisly murder similar to her fiance`s, she claims
it`s a movie script she`s been writing. I wonder if the script includes details about the $1.1 million life insurance policies. Tonight, we have
the letter, or should I say, the movie script.
Right now, to crime reporter with "The Holland Sentinel" Curtis Wildfong. Curtis, what a story! So this guy, Joe Hernandez`s body, is
found frozen in the snow, buried under snow, bludgeoned to death. What more do we know, Curtis?
CURTIS WILDFONG, "HOLLAND SENTINEL" (via telephone): His body was there for about 24 hours. He had been killed on the night of January 6th.
And snow had built up the night before and covered his body (INAUDIBLE) took a little time to discover. But investigators are (INAUDIBLE) Maryann
Castorena, who is Jose`s ex-girlfriend, that...
GRACE: I don`t know how ex it was. I don`t know...
WILDFONG: (INAUDIBLE) Delagarza.
GRACE: Curtis, I don`t know how much of an ex she really was. I think what she was doing was stringing him along. He wanted to marry her.
Little did he know, I think -- Ron Frantz can clear this up for me, the prosecutor in this case. Ron, thanks for being with us. Wasn`t she -- not
that this is a crime, of course, but wasn`t married to one guy -- didn`t she have a quickie wedding, and she was still leading Joe Hernandez down
the garden path?
RON FRANTZ, PROSECUTOR IN CASTORENA CASE (via telephone): Absolutely. She was living a double life. She was posing as the fiancee for Jose
Patricio (ph) Hernandez, who intended to marry her. And about six months before the murder, she slipped off to Las Vegas and married another guy in
a quickie wedding, came back and continued to try to create the impression that she was unmarried.
GRACE: OK. I want to talk about why she would do that, Ron Frantz, why she would continue on with Hernandez, who desperately wanted to marry
her. Think it had anything to do with the $1.1 million life insurance policies?
[20:05:16]FRANTZ: Oh, absolutely. We believe that she started planning to enhance her standing as a beneficiary about a year before the
actual murder took place. But interestingly, the second policy, which would net her $750,000, actually was taken out after she was married.
GRACE: Wow!
FRANTZ: And obviously, our victim did not know that. No one in their right mind would pay for an insurance policy on someone else`s wife.
GRACE: So all along, here we`ve got Hernandez, 38 years old, desperately wanting to marry Maryann. Little does he know, she slips off
to Vegas and marries some other guy. But she, according to police, wants to kill Hernandez before he finds out that she`s married somebody else to
get the life insurance.
Now, this is what we know. We know Hernandez`s body is found bludgeoned dead, buried under a mountain of snow. Beside him, a car was
running, and according to experts, the car had been running for about 24 hours.
What`s fascinating me, though, is the script, the movie script. With me right now is the lawyer for Maryann. His client insists that this
handwritten movie script, which was found in a bag, luggage, stuffed full with her lingerie, John Beason, high-profile lawyer out of Grand Rapids --
John, thanks for being with us. So tell me about the movie script.
JOHN BEASON, MARYANN CASTORENA`S ATTORNEY (via telephone): How`re you doing, Nancy?
GRACE: Good.
BEASON: The movie script was one of the statements that Maryann relayed over to the detectives in one of her interviews. The movie script
was one of several versions that she indicated to the police, how that note (ph) got written.
GRACE: So the movie script -- Matt Zarrell, who was she going to give the script to? Who was making a movie about a murder plot eerily similar
to her fiance -- I guess you can have a fiance when you`re married -- fiance`s murder?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Well, that`s a good question, Nancy, because from what authorities believe, she was
actually giving this note or letter to the person she planned to set up the murder.
GRACE: OK, take a look at what we`ve got here. We`ve got a dead body. It`s beside a car that`s been running for 24 hours. It`s under a
mountain of snow. It`s the body of Jose Hernandez, who desperately wants to marry Marryann. Little does he know, she married another guy in Vegas.
He turns up dead. In her luggage of nothing but lingerie, we find a so-called movie script, detailing the murders.
With me, Ron Frantz, working on Castorena`s case, and John Beason, defending Maryann.
So Ron Frantz, what is in the so-called movie script? What does the letter detail?
FRANTZ: Well, we`re calling it a murder checklist. And it was written, obviously, to another person, and we believe in this case, Anthony
Delagarza, her accomplice. But in the checklist is the motive for the murder. There`s mention of policies, which we believe are the life
insurance policies where Marryann was the beneficiary.
There is detailed planning. There are many mentions of different things to do to conceal the crime. There is mention of where the crime
should occur, which did match Jose Patricio Hernandez`s home. And also, you can see that the plan had evolved. At one time, this was supposed to
be a shooting with a gun, and ultimately, it was a bludgeoning with an auto repair tool.
GRACE: Whoa. OK. Let`s see a look, a mock-up of the alleged murder weapon. This is a tool with which you remove bolts out of tires, a ball
joint remover. How would you like that upside the head?
With me, Dr. Bill Manion, forensic pathologist joining me out of Philadelphia tonight. Dr. Manion, you can actually match up a tool like
that ball joint remover to the injuries on the skull and determine if it was, in fact, the weapon.
But I want to ask you this, Dr. Manion. From what I know of this guy`s brutal bludgeoning injuries, he could very well have been alive,
lying there, feeling and seeing the snow getting piled up on top of him. He could have been alive at that point and died of hypothermia.
[20:10:09]DR. BILL MANION, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST (via telephone): Well, yes, that`s possible. If he had a minor skull fracture, people can
be alive with a hairline fracture and just be incapacitated, that they can`t get up, they`re so dizzy. He could have had a temporary loss of
consciousness. And hypothermia out in the snow will set in very quickly. You could be dead within an hour from severe hypothermia.
GRACE: Can you imagine getting bludgeoned to the head, lying there and seeing your killer shovel snow, a mountain of snow, on top of your
body, knowing you can never get out?
Ron Frantz handling the Castorena case against Maryann Castorena -- Ron, what were the injuries to Hernandez? How bad was the bludgeoning?
FRANTZ: Well, it was very severe. He had at least five blows to the head. He had a very severe skull fracture, and I believe the medical
examiner indicated that it was irreversible. In other words, he probably died within minutes.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:15:22]UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jose Hernandez`s body was found next to his car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jose Hernandez`s life was insured for $1.25 million. The beneficiary, Marryann Castorena.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: She looks so innocent sitting there. And that`s going to be a problem if and when this goes to a jury because she looks so fresh-faced
and innocent -- until you start reading the movie script that was found in her luggage at her sister`s house. The movie script sure looks like a plan
for murder to me.
You know, Ron Frantz, joining me -- he`s working on the case -- Ron, you said that it was like a murder checklist. What did the movie script
involve? What were the suggested methods of murder, where, locations? What did you learn from it?
FRANTZ: Well, as I indicated, the original plan was to shoot Mr. Hernandez to death, and the intention was that Anthony Delagarza would come
up with a gun and do that, but he was unable to do that. And so the plan did evolve with time. And eventually, there was an agreement that he would
find another weapon -- turned out to be a ball joint remover -- and bludgeon him to death.
GRACE: You know, Ron, when you look at the injuries to Hernandez, who desperately wants to marry Marryann -- yes, you got that ball joint remover
and the husband from Las Vegas. That`s the a little problem in that scenario. But Ron, is it very clear to you that a woman Marryann`s size is
very unlikely to have been able to bludgeon Hernandez to death? I don`t think she could have done it on her own.
FRANTZ: Yes, I think that puzzled us from the very beginning. As the investigation unfolded, we could see that Marryann had a motive, but it
didn`t seem likely that she acted alone. And so the mystery was, who else was involved, one other person or two or -- and it took some time for us
to...
GRACE: Unravel the whole thing.
FRANTZ: Exactly.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Joining me in addition to Ron Frantz from Grand Rapids and John Beason, defending Marryann, also with us, Alex
Sanchez and Peter Odom.
OK, straight out to you. Peter Odom, what`s your best defense here?
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, you`ve got very difficult facts here. And as a defense attorney, you can`t create new facts. You
usually can`t eliminate facts. You`ve got to deal with what you`re dealing with.
She had to some up with some explanation for this very damaging note. She decided to claim that it was a movie script. I think a jury`s going to
have a tough time with that, frankly. But she also told...
GRACE: Yes, the thing is...
ODOM: ... two different stories to the police.
GRACE: ... you`re stuck with that -- yes, you`re stuck with...
ODOM: You`re stuck with it.
GRACE: ... the note because...
ODOM: It`s her handwriting.
ODOM: ... she`s told -- she said that when police questioned her. So it`s not like it`s just an allegation from police. She actually said it
herself, and a handwriting analyst can prove that it`s her handwriting.
So where do you go from there, Alex?
ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you know, that note I think has much less value than what you`re giving it credit here.
GRACE: Really?
ALEX: If you look at that note, it looks like something that was copied off a cheap comic book crime novel or something like that. In
addition, from my understanding, the district attorney is relying -- is making or cutting some type of a deal with the actual person that committed
the crime...
GRACE: Before I get to that, Alex...
ALEX: ... this guy Delagarza.
GRACE: I want to go back to what you`re saying about the note. Let`s address the note. You`re saying it sounds like it`s out of a cheap, what
did you say, comic book or detective book?
ALEX: Yes.
GRACE: That may be true, Alex, but what about the coincidence that that`s exactly how her fiance is murdered?
ALEX: Well, you know what? If the case is so strong, based upon this note, why is the prosecution seeking to cut a deal with this guy Delagarza?
Why do they want to use him to possibly testify against her? It must mean the case against her is not that strong. And this guy Delagarza, he`s a
criminal. He`s a gangster. And they`re -- why does he need tutoring on how to murder somebody?
GRACE: Let`s talk about -- since we -- let`s talk about who Delagarza is. It`s my understanding, Ron Frantz, Delagarza is the guy that Marryann
ropes into this whole scenario to do the deed. What do we know about Delagarza?
FRANTZ: Well, Delagarza actually had lived with Marryann and Jose Patricio Hernandez during the year before the killing and before Marryann
went off and got married in Vegas. So he knew all the parties involved.
And Marryann and Delagarza had pulled another job in March of 2014, of the arson of a car that belonged to Hernandez, and that netted about
$40,000 in insurance fraud.
[20:20:13]GRACE: Now, how do you know that, with Ron Frantz, that these two committed an arson together?
FRANTZ: Well, it was kind of strange. We had Anthony Delagarza`s phone, and one of the investigators was able to find a recording that he
made, bragging about that crime to some other people.
GRACE: You know, Matt Zarrell, there`s something that Delagarza, the so-called hit man, says that I find very compelling. He claims that
Marryann berated him after the bludgeoning. What do you know?
ZARRELL: Yes, so right after the murder, Delagarza says he gets back into the car, and Castorena is there, asks if he did it, if he killed
Hernandez. He says he tries, and he says she responded by saying, if he turns into a vegetable, then she wouldn`t get the money and she really
needed it. The whole point was making sure he was dead so they could get the full life insurance policy.
GRACE: So she is basically reaming him out, in case he didn`t sufficiently kill her fiance, claiming, If he`s just a vegetable, I`ll
never get the money, you idiot, basically. Am I paraphrasing correctly, Matt Zarrell?
ZARRELL: Yes. Correct.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Ron Frantz, John Beason, Alex Sanchez, Peter Odom. All right, Peter Odom. That`s not going to endear her to a
jury. I guess you`re going to claim...
ODOM: If they believe it.
GRACE: ... the hit man`s making it all up to save her skin?
ODOM: I mean, if they believe it because guess what? The hit man`s character`s going to be in evidence. I mean, you know, the old saying is,
Nancy, whoever calls the convict first loses.
GRACE: Really?
ODOM: So they`re going to have to...
GRACE: Because my old saying is, you`ve got to go to hell to get witnesses to put the devil in jail.
ODOM: And that is also true.
GRACE: You`ll put that to the fire (ph).
ODOM: That is also true. That is also true, but the jury...
GRACE: So Alex Sanchez...
ODOM: ... is going to evaluate his credibility.
GRACE: Well, here`s the thing. Yes, I agree, he`s got horrible credibility, Alex. Peter`s right about that. But still, the note is found
in her bra and her thong underwear, not his. It`s in her handwriting, not his. The murder plot is at her sister`s house, in her luggage.
ALEX: Well, if you think the note is a legitimate note, it`s a problem. If you think it looks like it was copied from a comic book, it
has no value at all. But I`d like to know from the prosecutor...
GRACE: I don`t know why you keep saying it`s copied from a comic book.
ALEX: I would like to know...
GRACE: Why are you even saying that? That`s not true.
ALEX: I would like to know from the are prosecutor what kind of a deal are they going to cut with this guy, Delagarza. What kind of time is
he going to get if he testifies against her? Because if he`s getting some sweetheart deal and the jury finds out about that, that testimony`s going
to have very little value, and that`s -- the prosecutor knows that. So why don`t you ask him right now.
GRACE: OK, Frantz, what is the proposed deal with the would-be hit man?
FRANTZ: Well, we intend to offer him the opportunity to plea guilty to second-degree murder, which carries up to life, but it`s parole-able
life, as opposed to first degree, which is not parole-able.
GRACE: So it`s life with parole? That -- that -- I don`t know that that`s a sweetheart deal, Sanchez, the rest of your life behind bars, you
natural life, with a possibility of parole? That`s not that sweet.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:27:00]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jose Patricio Hernandez`s body was found outside of his running car.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Marryann Castorena say she was framed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say it was Anthony Delagarza who actually did the deed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Well, according to Maryann, the document that was found in her lingerie bag was actually her outlining a movie script. It was eerily
similar to the mode of death, the mode of murder of her fiance.
Her fiance, Hernandez, desperately wanted to marry her. What he didn`t know is that she had married in a quickie Las Vegas wedding and
wanted him dead to get his insurance money before he could find out about that Vegas quickie. That is the allegation of the prosecution. Enter a
hit man.
To Matt Zarrell. One thing I noticed is that she changed her story several times.
ZARRELL: Yes, she did, Nancy, specifically about the note. You mentioned the movie script. In another interview, she also claimed that
Delagarza came to her house and forced her to write the note detailing the murder and threatened to kill her children...
GRACE: OK, wa-wa-wa-wa-wait! Ron Frantz, you`re prosecuting the case. John Beason, you`re defending. Ron, so she then -- when she
realized how damning the movie script was, she said Delagarza comes to her house and beats her into writing it, and what, stuffing it between her
underwear?
FRANTZ: Well, she had about six different versions, and that was one of them. And then that was followed by another story, where some unknown
person came to the door, reached around her neck, held her in kind of a headlock, handed her a pen and said, Start writing what I tell you, and she
claims she didn`t know who that was.
So the point is, the stories were completely unbelievable, which obviously had a bearing on her credibility with the jury.
GRACE: It certainly will. John Beason, attorney for Marryann -- OK, that`s got to hurt. The more she talks, the worse it gets. What jury
would ever believe a complete stranger comes into her house, chokes her into writing a note, which she then, what, is forced to stuff into her
lingerie bag?
BEASON: I would hope, so Nancy, but it didn`t happen.
GRACE: OK, tell me this, John. What do you do when you have a client that flip-flops her story?
BEASON: What you try to do -- what I tried to do is concentrate on Delagarza and his credibility. He was a gang member. He had burned cars
before. He had threw Molotov cocktails before. He had cut the deal with a prosecutor. It`s -- defending Maryann was like going up a mountain
backwards blindfolded, and...
GRACE: Well, you know, something he just said, Caryn Stark. The alleged hit man had burned cars before. Caryn, he burned the car with her,
Marryann, to get like, I think, it was $40,000 insurance. So the fact that he had burned a car doesn`t really help her because it was her idea to
start with, to burn the car for insurance proceeds. And that 40 grand wasn`t enough. The greed was consuming, according to prosecutors, she
wanted even more money, $1.1 million life insurance.
[20:30:00]
STARK: And nobody was really thinking very clearly here, Nancy, because her wanting it and then writing it out, right there, it`s bad
enough when you hire somebody to do this and you work with somebody to do this, because invariably, someone talks or they have to tell somebody, they
have to brag, but she has a prior history with him. So, you could trace back their relationship and how they already did something nefarious.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:35:00]
GRACE: Now live to Pennsylvania suburbs and a parent`s worst nightmare. Neighborhood parents in shock when their 10-year-old daughters
come home from a little classmate`s sleepover in tears. Claiming that between popcorn and kid movies, they were sex molested. Did the 36-year-
old sleepover dad sex molest little 10-year-old girls under his own roof? Bombshell, tonight. Cops alerting all parents at Russell Struebl
elementary, fearing there may be even more 10-year-old victims.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 36-year-old David Huebsch.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s infuriating and terrifying. You think, hey, here`s this nice guy living across the street.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say the sexual assaults happened at his home over the course of a year and a half. They say girls often went in
and out of the home, and police are urging parents to talk to their child.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This seems unbelievable to me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Okay, note to self, never ever, ever, ever allow sleepovers at somebody else`s home. Parent`s worst nightmare. Look at this guy. This
father accused of sex molesting at least two 10-year-old little girls, and now police are combing through the girl`s elementary school, afraid there
could be more little girl victims. And why would it be limited to just the school? What more is out there for police to find? We are bringing you
this story live from Bensalem tonight. To Jo Ciavaglia, crime reporter, Bucks Count Courier Times. Thank you for being with us. I`m just sick
about this. Imagine the little girls, they are away from home, they are spending the night, and according to them, they are molested by this little
girl`s father. What do we know, Jo?
JO CIAVAGLIA: What we know, Nancy, is that he allegedly molested one girl at a new year`s eve sleepover, and police believe he might have
molested a second 10-year-old girl, at least four times. Between August and September of 2013.
GRACE: How is he getting access to the second little girl, according to police, Jo? I mean, I know the first one was at a new year`s eve
sleepover. And now that`s just all coming to light. But what about the other little girl, where there`s at least four counts of sex molest?
CIAVAGLIA: Nancy, police believe that both girls were friendly with Mr. Huebsch`s daughter, and that they were also, the second little girl was
also molested at sleepovers at the home.
GRACE: And now, all the parents at Russell Struble are being warned and questioned. Did your child spend the night in this home? Did your
child play at this home? Because I`m just wondering, let me go to Jeff Herman, with me, victims` rights attorney. Jeff, what more can you tell
us?
JEFF HERMAN, VICTIM`S RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Well, you know, it`s difficult when these cases come up, to understand what really happened. And I think
parents have to understand that they need to let their kids know that they`ve done nothing wrong when they`re speaking to them. 90 percent of
kids are abused by somebody they know. They`ve usually been groomed. So the kids who are complying victims, they physically comply. Obviously,
they don`t consent, they`re kids, but because they`ve participated compliantly in the sex, they feel like they`ve done something wrong. So we
need to let them know that they`ve done nothing wrong, and they`re the victims, and try to get them to be able to tell their stories in a safe
environment.
GRACE: You know, Jeff Herman, you said this type of case is hard to understand. It`s not hard for me to understand. Because two little 10-
year-old girls are both telling essentially the same story. They go to different sleepovers, but at the same house, and separately they tell
police that this sleepover dad molested them. And I`m just wondering if it`s the same M.O. Were they asleep? Did he come into their bedroom? Did
he get them in the bathroom? Did he wait until all the other children were outside playing or watching a movie? To Jo Ciavaglia, a crime reporter,
Jo, do we know how he managed to isolate the alleged victims?
CIAVAGLIA: We do not know the details of exactly where in the home the children were molested. I can tell you, based on reading the criminal
complaint, Nancy, that the children each told extremely similar stories of the way they were molested.
GRACE: Okay, so both times, he approaches a child, a little girl when she`s alone, and starts off by sticking -- forcing his hand down her
underwear to her vaginal area.
[20:40:00]
That`s how the whole thing starts off, both times, Jo?
CIAVAGLIA: My understanding is the initial contact with the second girl involved the grabbing of her buttocks.
GRACE: Okay. So that`s how that one starts off.
CIAVAGLIA: On one of the four occasions.
GRACE: Okay, Michael Christian, also on the story, does he, the father, David Samuel Huebsch, have any kind of criminal history?
CHRISTIAN: None, Nancy. Absolutely none.
GRACE: None.
You know what, that`s not unusual. Caryn Stark, psychologist out of New York, that is not unusual. And I`m telling you why. I`ve had so many
cases where child molesters -- and this guy has not gone to trial, he`s not been convicted. Right now he`s just charged and he`s presumed innocent.
Let`s just get that off the table. There are a lot of child molesters are upstanding, they`re fathers, they have got jobs, they`ve got families, and
you never suspect, right?
STARK: You never suspect, and children don`t really speak up, Nancy, because they`re in a position, as you said before, where they don`t have
power. And so, they keep it to themselves. They don`t really know what to say, and they also blame themselves. So they feel embarrassed and ashamed.
GRACE: Joining me right now, special guest, director of public safety there in Bensalem, Fred Harren is joining us. Fred, thank you so much for
being with us.
FRED HARREN, PUBLIC SAFETY DIRECTOR, BENSALEM: You`re welcome.
GRACE: This is a shocker. What can you tell us, Fred? It`s my understanding that this sleepover dad had no criminal history whatsoever.
And now, not one but two little girls have come forward and the school is now being warned and alerted that other children may have been molested,
Fred.
HARREN: Yes, I can`t really comment. Obviously, it`s an ongoing investigation, and as more victims come forward, there`s not much I can
tell you before this case goes to trial. I will tell you, we`re not really warning the school, we`re just asking the parents to have some
conversations and talk with counselors, and I believe we`ve identified some other children we`re going to talk to, just to see if any other
molestations have taken place.
GRACE: Wait, wait, wait. I can`t understand what you said. You`re telling the parents what?
HARREN: We`re telling the parents to have conversations with their children. Obviously, we have this guy`s picture, he`s on the news. We had
a press release on it, so people knew what`s going on. I believe there`s more than two victims out there. (inaudible) two kids. Most likely there
are other victims, and we are in the process right now of talking to other children, just to find out if anything else, any other kids that may have
been at the sleepovers. It`s my understanding there have been a lot of children in that house. And I`m sure, unfortunately, there`s going to be
more than two victims here. But as far as the investigation, with the two children we already have identified, I can`t comment on the ongoing
investigation.
GRACE: Okay, why do you believe there may be more victims?
HARREN: Well, you know, nobody has just one bowl of ice cream. This guy just didn`t do it two times to two different kids. He`s done it
before. This is a sickness. He`s a sick pervert, and it`s not only one or two times he`s done this. I`m sure it`s happened numerous times. And
again, as even today, more information is coming to light, which certainly will be followed up in the judicial system, and I can`t comment on at this
time. But a guy just doesn`t do this one or two times. I`m sure this has been done multiple times, and I`m hoping we`ll get to the bottom of it.
And so if there are more victims out there, we`ll be able to get these victims a day in court and have some charges on this guy. And I`m hoping
he never gets out of jail again.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:48:00]
GRACE: Now live, Exton, Pennsylvania, to an all-boys private academy. The Church Farm School. Police say it wasn`t just a fling, but instead, a
female teacher has nearly a year of sex with a boy student, including love letters and multiple trysts in cars and local hotels. The 35-year-old
English teacher, Sarah O`Neill, denies the claims. But what about that steamy love letter? The teacher mistakenly leaves on the school printer.
Oops!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Teen victim told police he had sexual contact with the teacher multiple times in her car and in hotel rooms. And cops
discovered hundreds of phone calls and text messages between the two.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Solomon Jones, morning host, WRUD. Solomon, is it because this is a very expensive, elite school. It`s 35 grand a year
for tuition. Did they try to hush this whole thing up?
SOLOMON JONES, WRUD: You know, this whole thing is in one of the richest counties in the country. And the richest county in Pennsylvania.
Their house value out there is more than twice as much as the median household value in the state. So this is a rich place. This is a place
where it`s about more than just the sex. It`s about the scandal. And this was definitely a scandal, because a custodian caught them in the room three
times with the lights out and the door locked, her stockings disheveled. She`s telling the custodian, I was just trying to help him with some extra
credit. It`s bizarre. And it`s in some of the most exclusive places in Pennsylvania, in a park in Narberth. Narberth is one of the most exclusive
places in the state of Pennsylvania. So this is about much more than this 10-month-long affair and oral sex between this teacher and this student.
This is about a scandal that involved both sex and money.
[20:50:00]
GRACE: Well, another thing, Solomon Jones. Oh, by the way, you`re seeing video of Church Farm school from Youtube. That`s the motto, never
complain. Never explain. Because if you`re not doing anything wrong, why do you suddenly burst out with explanations to the custodian? Three times
you`re telling me, Solomon Jones, the custodian finds these two locked in O`Neill, her school room, all the lights off, everyone else is gone from
the school, and they`re locked in there in the dark, and when the custodian finally gets in, her hose are all disheveled, she`s disheveled, and
immediately begins the explanations. That`s video posted on Vimeo of Sarah O`Neill. Shouldn`t the school have been put on notice if the custodian
catches them three times in a locked classroom in the dark with her pantyhose down around her ankles?
JONES: The school definitely should have been put on notice, the parents should have been put on notice. This was something that was so
brazen that even after the school caught them, and, again, police found over 500 phone calls on her phone between them, over 300 text messages
between them. This was not a casual thing. This was an ongoing relationship with this female teacher taking advantage of this student, and
it was so brazen that allegedly, after the whole thing was discovered through the love letter and the police were involved, she continued to try
to keep making contact with this student. I mean, the whole thing is just really brazen, really out there. What the student says if it`s not true,
then I want to see what the explanation is for all these phone calls, all these text messages, the love letter, and everything else.
GRACE: I never had a teacher call me period, at all, zero, or our home. I never had one call my parents that I know of, anyway. So how many
phone calls did she make to this boy student?
JONES: This one is over 500 phone calls. It was over 300 text messages between them. That`s what the police discovered on her phone.
Again, what is the explanation for that? And in one of these the boy said, well, what are you wearing? And she said I should be wearing something
tight and sexy or tight underwear or nothing at all. Again, this is not something that is just he say/she say. There were lots of circumstantial,
of course, evidence linking the two of them together in a romantic relationship.
GRACE: Hold on. So in one of the texts he goes, what are you wearing? And this one, 35-year-old teacher, Sarah O`Neill, says I should
have been wearing something sexy like tight underwear?
JONES: That`s right. Tight underwear or nothing at all, but I`m much too -- I think she said something like I`m much too proper for that.
GRACE: Wait, wait, wait. Much too proper? For wearing tight underwear? Hello, you`re having sex, according to police, with a boy
student, but you`re too proper for tight underwear. Did I hear you correctly, Solomon?
JONES: You did hear me correctly. Those are the kinds of statements that the police found on her phone with these messages between her and this
young man. And so, you know, the letters, from what I can see, the letters are really well written. Apparently she`s a good writer.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: I don`t think that`s the issue, Solomon.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:57:040]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police in Pennsylvania have arrested a teacher who they say carried on a ten-month affair with a 16-year-old student at a
prestigious boarding school.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Sex with a boy student. Those are the allegations that went on for nearly a year. Trysts in cars. Including -- Stacy Newman, where is
the Extended Stay America and the Motel 6 fit into this?
NEWMAN: Well, she also drags him away from campus to the point where teachers and faculty were looking for him, to have oral sex with this boy
in her car, in a park, in a Motel 6 and an Extended Stay America.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Jeff Herman, Alex Sanchez, Peter Odom. Okay, Sanchez, she leaves the love letter on the school printer. Ouch.
SANCHEZ: This sounds like a 35-year-old with the maturity of a 16- year-old and a 16-year-old with the maturity of like a 30-year-old man.
GRACE: That`s not a defense.
SANCHEZ: The question I have, Nancy, are you suggesting this kid is undergoing severe, awful, psychological harm? That kid is probably treated
like a hero in school by all his friends, and I`m not saying this behavior should be condoned, but let`s not make this sound like it`s murder. Let`s
not put this in the super egregious category?
GRACE: Why is it okay to molest a boy?
HERMAN: That was a very unfortunate comment that was just made. It`s illegal because it`s harmful. And as much as we may want to think or
people will say, oh, it`s a boy with an older woman, yay for him, the truth is this could have long-term effects on him, impact his relationships in
the future. He`s been sexualized. He will never be the same. He will never be able to have some of the relationships he might have had otherwise
if this is true.
GRACE: You know what, let`s stop and remember American hero, Marine Corporal Joshua Pickard, just 20, California. Purple Heart, National
Defense Service Medal. Loved the outdoors. Parents Larry and Teri. Three brothers including one serving the Marines. Joshua Pickard, American hero,
a special good night from California friend Michael Nguyen. Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night,
friend.
END
