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Nancy Grace
Black Confederate Flag Supporter Dies in Car Crash; Sandra Bland Dashcam Arrest Video Released. Aired 8-9:00p ET
Aired July 22, 2015 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SUNNY HOSTIN, GUEST HOST: We begin tonight with an African-American activist who stirs up controversy because he strongly supported the
Confederate flag. He`s killed instantly in a deadly car wreck after flipping off of the side of the road.
But was Anthony Hervey`s death a hate crime? Tonight, a passenger driving with Hervey reports a group of men in another car harassed them on
the road just moments before the crash, and you will hear from her tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anthony Hervey was driving home from a rally to save a Confederate monument in Birmingham, Alabama, when the SUV he was
driving crashed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I got pain in me right now. I`m not here to BS you. This is a serious, serious matter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was Hervey run off the road and killed because of his defense of the Confederate flag?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOSTIN: That was video from YouTube.
And next we turn to the mysterious death of 28-year-old Sandra Bland, who was found dead in a Texas jail cell after what seemed to be a routine
traffic stop. A new development tonight, though, as dashcam video is released showing the very heated moments before her arrest. And new
questions about that video as authorities investigate allegations into whether the video was edited.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRIAN ENCINIA, TEXAS STATE POLICE: Step out of the car!
SANDRA BLAND: You do not have the right to do that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police dashcam video of Bland`s arrest quickly spirals out of control.
ENCINIA: Get out of the car!
(CROSSTALK)
ENCINIA: I will light you up! Get out!
BLAND: Wow. You are such a (EXPLETIVE DELETED)
(CROSSTALK)
BLAND: (INAUDIBLE) traffic signal!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOSTIN: And dozens of commercial flights have become the target of so-called laser attacks. The FAA confirms powerful handheld lasers are
being pointed directly at cockpits endangering the lives of thousands of passengers and pilots. Tonight, a federal investigation.
Good evening. I`m Sunny Hostin, in for Nancy Grace tonight. Thank you so very much for spending time with me.
Well, police are investigating a deadly car wreck involving an African-American man who supported the Confederate flag. Was his death a
hate crime?
Let`s go right to Steve Taylor. He`s the co-host of "Gulf Coast Mornings" on Newsradio 104.9 FM. Steve, thanks so much for joining us.
Tell us about this deadly car crash.
STEVE TAYLOR, CO-HOST "GULF COAST MORNINGS" 104.9 FM (via telephone): Well, Sunny, thanks for having me on. I appreciate it.
In the aftermath of this that took place, the Mississippi Highway Patrol has an accident reconstruction team that`s trying to review all the
information right now and trying to figure out what happened because 49- year-old Anthony Hervey, who swerved in his vehicle, run off a road after having traveled from Birmingham, Alabama, over the weekend.
And this accident that happened on Highway 6 in Lafayette County, Mississippi -- just a tragedy, the coroner today still waiting on a final
autopsy report.
The Highway Patrol is again trying to corroborate what the passenger in his vehicle had to say about this accident, as well. Apparently, the
vehicle flipped over several times and leaving 49-year-old Anthony Hervey dead and his 60-year-old passenger, Arlene Barnum, shaken up and injured,
as well, very terrible accident there.
HOSTIN: And it`s always a tragedy when you hear about a death involved in a car crash. Steve, tell me, was there anyone else involved,
another car involved in this car crash?
TAYLOR: What we`ve seen to this point -- and this is based on information that was said earlier today by Arlene herself. She said as
they neared Oxford, there was a vehicle that began following them after they had gotten back on the road after making a pit stop, so to speak.
And there was a silver or gray car driving alongside them on the highway, and with their windows down. There were a bunch of, quote,
"angry-looking" black guys yelling at Mr. Hervey. She couldn`t make out what they were saying.
But he accelerated, driving the vehicle, left the chasing vehicle behind. And then the pursuers drove around to the other side of the
vehicle on the passenger side. Well, he swerved across the road to avoid them, ran into a ditch.
That other vehicle sped on, and the SUV that Hervey and Arlene were in began to roll over and flip at that time. And it had to be a -- it`s
amazing that Miss Arlene survived that accident.
[20:05:07]HOSTIN: Well, Steve, thanks so much for that recap.
I want to bring in Stacey Newman, NANCY GRACE producer. And Stacey, we`ve got to talk about Mr. Hervey because he was quite a controversial
figure in that community. Can you tell us a bit more about Mr. Hervey?
STACEY NEWMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Sunny, you`re right. He was very controversial. Let`s start with the fact he called himself the
"black redneck." And for years, he has staunchly defended the Confederate flag. He thinks it should be everybody`s right to fly that flag, and he`s
basing this on relatives in his family who fought for the Confederacy.
He`s also written a very controversial book supporting the Confederate flag. And he spent years, Sunny, going around to these different rallies,
one of the only few black Americans at these rallies with a bunch of Caucasians with these Confederate flags flying everywhere, basically
preaching about their right to fly this Confederate flag.
HOSTIN: I will say when I heard about this story, Stacey, I was quite shocked because I was in South Carolina, in Charleston, covering the
terrible, terrible murders in Charleston, South Carolina, of the nine people at the AME Emanuel church, Mother Emanuel church.
And there are certainly many people that find that the, you know, flag honors Southern past, honors Southern heritage. But there are many people,
African-Americans especially, that consider it to be a symbol of hatred and consider it to be a symbol of racism and hate. Tell us a little bit about
the South Carolina flag.
NEWMAN: Well, that`s the thing, Sunny. As you`re saying, this is a symbol of hatred that`s very sensitive to a lot of people. And I`m glad
you brought up South Carolina, that horrible tragedy that happened there.
He actually -- Mr. Hervey referred to that tragedy in one of his last speeches before his death and said the media was manipulating this by
showing a picture of the shooter with the Confederate flag. And he said no, this shooting happened because this young white boy was mentally ill.
So he`s saying that`s not a reason to take this flag down off of capitol grounds, and he was staunchly defending that before he ran off the
road and died, Sunny.
HOSTIN: Thank you so much, Stacey.
I want to bring in Arlene Barnum. She was with the victim of this deadly car crash at the rally that he had attended before his death, and
she was also in the crash. Arlene, thank you so much for joining us tonight. How are you doing?
ARLENE BARNUM, PASSENGER IN FATAL CRASH (via telephone): Well, I`m just here (ph), ma`am. I`m just here.
HOSTIN: Well, can you tell me...
(CROSSTALK)
HOSTIN: I just can`t imagine. Arlene, can you tell me what happened at the rally?
BARNUM: (INAUDIBLE) it was a multicultural rally (INAUDIBLE) with other Southerners and from other states there to observe the monument that
was there in Birmingham. And I was one of the guest speakers there (INAUDIBLE) And it was (INAUDIBLE) speakers (INAUDIBLE) as well as Mr.
Hervey and several others, and it was to preserve our Southern heritage.
HOSTIN: And did you feel...
BARNUM: (INAUDIBLE)
HOSTIN: Did you feel safe at the rally?
BARNUM: Oh, very safe. Oh, very safe. You know, I got to meet people from various states, Southern states like Mississippi, North
Carolina, Virginia. They were from, you know, all the Southern states. I had a -- I had a lovely (ph) time (ph). You know, we exchanged phone
numbers, got to network with each other, you know, to save our Southern heritage and our Southern history, you know, our way of life, and that flag
(INAUDIBLE) Southern flag.
HOSTIN: Well, Arlene, can you tell us what happened on the drive home? How was Anthony driving?
BARNUM: Well, he lived near Oxford, Mississippi, and he knew more -- he knew better how to get there, better than I would because (INAUDIBLE)
with my GPS. Sometimes, the signal glitches.
So he drove closer to where his house was at. We stopped off at a convenience store, where he (INAUDIBLE) got some fried chicken. And we
proceeded on to make a left-hand turn onto Highway 6.
And it wasn`t too long after that, I`m just guessing maybe (INAUDIBLE) about 15 minutes, is what it felt like (INAUDIBLE) just (INAUDIBLE) when he
said, Hell, no. And I looked up, and on the driver`s side -- because he was driving -- there was a silver or gray car with the window down, and
there were these guys that were jeering (ph) because (ph) they were angry.
[20:10:10]And Mr. Hervey (INAUDIBLE) he sped up. You know, he got away from them, so he had to speed up a lot.
HOSTIN: Can you...
BARNUM: (INAUDIBLE)
HOSTIN: Can you describe them? Can you describe what they looked like, the other people in the car?
BARNUM: Yes. There were two -- (INAUDIBLE) well, I couldn`t (INAUDIBLE) until they got on my side. There were two in the front seat
and looked like -- looked like there were two, three at the most, in the back seat. And they were younger African-American males.
HOSTIN: Did you know them?
BARNUM: (INAUDIBLE) Ma`am, I`m not familiar with -- I`m not from Mississippi. And I didn`t know anybody but Mr. Hervey.
HOSTIN: Did Mr. Hervey tell you that he knew those men in the car?
BARNUM: No, ma`am. The last words he spoke was, Hell, no. He never said a word until the last -- until he died. You know, as far as me being
(INAUDIBLE) Those were the last words he spoke.
HOSTIN: Well, we`re thankful, Miss Arlene, that you survived this terrible crash. Have authorities been telling you anything about their
investigation?
BARNUM: No, they have not, except that when I was in the emergency room, there was an officer, I believe he was a state trooper, I believe,
the Mississippi Safety Department, came to my -- came to the emergency room where I was at. And he asked me some questions, basically what you`re
asking me now. And I -- you know, I told him a description of the vehicle, and you know, what all happened with the rollover, the people that got me
out of there.
And I asked him if Mr. Hervey -- how is he doing? And he told me that Hervey has been life-flighted to (INAUDIBLE) because he was not responding.
They were working on him because he was non-responsive. And I said, Does that mean he`s alive? He said, Yes, he`s alive, but he`s not responding.
Only (INAUDIBLE) later on for him to come back with a sheriff to advise me he had passed away at the scene and that he was not transported.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:16:31]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A black supporter of the Confederate flag dies on his way home from a rally to save a Confederate monument.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) the audacity to go up and take down the Confederate battle flag!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now investigators are trying to determine just what caused this deadly crash.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOSTIN: You`re seeing video from YouTube of Anthony Hervey at a pro- Confederate rally. Anthony Hervey was killed in a deadly car crash coming back from a valley. He was a Confederate flag supporter.
And you know, today, the Department of Justice announced that it will pursue federal hate crime charges against Dylann Roof. Remember, he was
the shooter in South Carolina, Charleston, who murdered nine people at the Mother Emanuel church. And so people how are certainly talking about the
Confederate flag. It has been an issue on everyone`s minds. And now you have an African-American man, who was a supporter of the flag, which is
unusual -- let`s fact it -- who is now dead.
Let`s bring in the lawyers. Let`s bring in Alex Sanchez. He`s a defense attorney, and also Darryl Cohen, another defense attorney. And my
question to you is, given these circumstances where you have, allegedly, perhaps, a group of black men in a car pursuing another black man who is a
Confederate flag supporter and who may have been known to them as a Confederate flag supporter -- could this possibly be a hate crime?
ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Sunny, based upon the information that we have right now, I don`t see how anyone could possibly extrapolate
from the facts that we have that there was a hate crime. I didn`t hear anything about somebody cursing somebody out because of their race and
religion.
And the first thing you need to do is to find out if there was a crime committed at all. Were the people following Mr. Hervey trying to, you
know, run him off the road or were they engaged in some other type of criminal activity? So you must first get over that obstacle. Then you
need to get over the second obstacle, whether or not there was any hate- related speech, and I don`t see it at the present time.
HOSTIN: Well, Mr. Sanchez, what do you think? I mean, if investigators find that he was run off the road, what would have to be
shown to prove this was a hate crime?
SANCHEZ: Well, if they intentionally tried to run him off the road, then you have a crime, maybe attempted murder or reckless endangerment or
something like that.
But to get to the next level, you would have to show that their motivation was based upon race. And how do you do that? You`d have to
show that they were cursing at him and using, you know, some type of racial epithets against him or some other type of evidence indicating that their
motivation was racial in nature.
HOSTIN: Darryl, do you agree?
DARRYL COHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No, I do not. One, I do agree that we have to make sure there was a crime. And frankly, I`ve always been a
little flummoxed as far as a hate crime because if they ran him off the road, then -- and he died, then there`s murder. And you don`t have to
worry about a hate crime because the penalty for murder could be capital punishment, not in this instance, could be life in prison, could be any
lesser offense.
But I do agree that we have to find out, were they after him because he was black? Probably not, since they were also African-American. Were
they after him because he had a differing view than they did? And you can prove a hate crime.
[20:20:00]But again, I question whether or not we worry about a hate crime until after -- and I do agree there -- until after we see whether or
not there was a crime, and if there was and if there`s adequate prosecution for the crime, then don`t worry about the hate crime. We just deal with it
as a regular crime, where they forced him off the road, or as a result of their driving, he had to go off the road and wrapped (ph).
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOSTIN: I`m Sunny Hostin, in for Nancy Grace tonight. Thank you so much for joining me.
We`ve been following the mysterious death of 28-year-old Sandra Bland. She`s the woman who was found dead in a Texas jail cell after what was
supposed to be a routine traffic stop. However, tonight, dashcam video is released, and that shows what happens in the moments before Bland`s
controversial arrest.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANDRA BLAND: Don`t touch me!
BRIAN ENCINIA, TEXAS STATE POLICE: Get out of the car!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police have released dashcam video of her arrest in Texas.
ENCINIA: Stop moving!
BLAND: Are you (EXPLETIVE DELETED) serious?
ENCINIA: Stop moving!
BLAND: Oh, I can`t wait until we go to court. Oh, I can`t wait! I cannot wait until we go to court!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:25:03]HOSTIN: Everyone -- everyone -- is talking about this dashcam video. I want to go to Nik Rajkovic. Nik, what have we learned
from this dashcam video that was just released?
NIK RAJKOVIC, KTRH (via telephone): Well, Sunny, thanks again for having me this evening. What we learned the trooper, the state trooper who
pulled over Ms. Bland -- what his actions were, what his demeanor was, what his inflection, his voice, his commands were.
Everybody thinks, look, he should have just given her this warning, this ticket, and said, you know, Have a nice day. He kind of escalates it
after. She`s irritated, tells her to put the cigarette out, and it just escalated from there.
HOSTIN: Well, you know, let me bring in Matt Zarrell because the focus really has been on this officer at this point. The focus was, of
course, on Sandra Bland, but now a lot of people have questions about this officer. Matt, what can you tell us about it?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): OK, so 30-year- old trooper Brian Encinia -- he`s been a state trooper with the Department of Public Safety for a little more than a year.
Now, he previously worked at Blue Bell Creameries and was a district chief of the Brenham fire department. He was actually an ingredient
processing supervisor at Blue Bell from 2008 to 2014, when he joined the DPS, and was a district chief in the Brenham fire department for a number
of years. He graduated from Texas A&M and actually graduated the same year as Sandra Bland.
HOSTIN: So we`re saying that this is an officer -- we`re learning now that this officer had only been an officer for about a year.
ZARRELL: Yes. Correct.
HOSTIN: Well, let me -- I want to show our viewers part of the video when this -- what should have been a routine traffic stop seems to go bad.
Let`s show that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ENCINIA: Would you mind putting out your cigarette, please? If you don`t mind.
BLAND: I`m in my car. I don`t have to put out my cigarette.
ENCINIA: Well, you can step on out now.
BLAND: I don`t have to step out of my car.
ENCINIA: Step out of the car!
BLAND: Why am I...
ENCINIA: Step out of the car!
BLAND: No, you don`t have the right...
ENCINIA: Step out of the car!
BLAND: You do not have the right to do that.
ENCINIA: I do have the right! Now, step out, or I will remove you!
BLAND: I refuse to talk to you other than to identify myself.
ENCINIA: Step out or I will remove you!
BLAND: (INAUDIBLE) a failure to signal?
ENCINIA: Step out, or I will remove you! I`m giving you a lawful order. Get out of the car now, or I`m going to remove you!
BLAND: And I`m calling my lawyer.
ENCINIA: I`m going to yank you out of here!
BLAND: OK. You`re going to yank me out of my car?
ENCINIA: Get out!
BLAND: OK. All right. Let`s do this.
ENCINIA: Yes, we`re going to.
BLAND: Yes. Don`t touch me!
ENCINIA: Get out of the car!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOSTIN: Now, we are learning from the video that this officer was only going to give Sandra Bland a warning. However, when he got to the car
and asked her to turn out her cigarette and she refused to do so, he then asks her to get out of the car.
I want to bring in Lisa Lockwood. She`s a former police detective and the author of, "Undercover Angel." Lisa, please explain to our viewers, as
a former officer, what your reaction was when you saw that portion of the video, when he asked her to turn out her cigarette, and when she refuses to
do so, he then asks her to get out of the car.
LISA LOCKWOOD, FMR. POLICE DETECTIVE: Asking her to extinguish her cigarette was pointless. It didn`t serve as any type of danger to him
whatsoever. What happened is, he escalated the situation because she didn`t respond to him the way that he wanted to.
And a lot of times, we call this John Wayne syndrome, when an officer gives a lawful order. Was that a lawful order that was going to help him
as far as his safety or anything like that? No. The fact that she said, Why do I need to do that, she deserved a respectful answer regarding that.
Because she refused, he ordered her out of the vehicle.
He had no right at that point to do that. His safety was not at risk.
HOSTIN: Now, let me ask you -- this officer had only been an officer for about a year, but my understanding is the protocol for this type of
traffic stop is when you return to the car as an officer, you are supposed to indicate to the motorist what the person was being stopped for, as well
as what your actions would be, whether or not you were going to provide a warning or just a ticket. Is that true?
LOCKWOOD: Yes. At the point when he asked her for the information and went back to the vehicle, he returned to her. And that point, he can
say to her, I`m going to offer you a warning or I`m going to give you a written ticket. Stay in your vehicle as I write the ticket. That was the
point.
Why he decided to make a decision later based on how she was going to respond to him -- it`s called officer discretion. And he escalated that
situation.
At that point, could he have arrested her -- made the decision to arrest her and bring her into the station for that ticket? According to
Texas law, yes. It is something that he can take her into custody and take to the station and have her bond out.
But he never indicated to her he was going to do that. He never said, Ma`am, I need you to come with me. You`re under arrest for failure to
signal, improper lane usage. We need to go back to the station and bond out. At that point, she had no idea why she was being taken out of that
vehicle.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:34:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you mind putting out your cigarette please?
BLAND: I`m in my car, why do I have to put out my cigarette?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s at that point that his irritation rises to the level where he asks her to get out of the car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Step out of the car.
BLAND: You do not have the right to do that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do have the right. Now step out or I will remove you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s nothing on that video that indicates to me that he had probable cause to ask her to get out of the car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I said, get out of the car.
BLAND: Why am I being apprehended?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m giving you a lawful order.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOSTIN: Welcome back. I`m Sunny Hostin in for Nancy Grace. We`ve been talking about the mysterious death of Sandra Bland while in police
custody, and then, of course, this dashcam video that has recently been released.
I have with me again Lisa Lockwood. She`s a former police detective and author of "Undercover Angel." Lisa, in looking at this video, can you
tell us whether or not Bland was arrested for simply being rude to the police officer? Because the bottom line is as a former prosecutor myself,
I don`t think it is a crime to refuse to turn out your cigarette.
[20:35:00]
So what was she being arrested for?
LOCKWOOD: So at that point, when he got her out of the vehicle, she was not under arrest. She was not cuffed. He said get out of the vehicle.
Yes, under arrest as far as taking away her liberty at that point, but not under arrest when she was cuffed. The decision to cuff her was when she
started mouthing back, and he said, you know what, I`m going to go ahead and put her in custody. That`s allegedly when she did the kicks and that
sort of thing, and now he`s got his probable cause.
But as I said before, he had a choice at that point to say you`re under arrest for failure to signal and we`re going to go to the station and
we`re going to take care of bond and go from there. He escalated something in such a way where his use of force caused her to react in the way she
did. And now he has this new probable cause, so to speak.
HOSTIN: In your view, Lisa, was this a good arrest or a bad arrest?
LOCKWOOD: This was an unlawful arrest as far as -- we didn`t get to see her actually kick him. I didn`t see any of that on the video. But
certainly, if a person is in pain and they`re moving and trying to move the cuffs or if their head is on the ground, certainly you go into a fight or
flight type of situation. She just wanted to get comfortable as far as everything I`ve seen up to this point.
HOSTIN: Thanks, Lisa. I think many people are now, of course, sort of conflating the two videos. The video of Sandra Bland`s arrest, this
dashcam video, and then, of course, what happened at the jail. I want to bring in Dr. Michelle Dupre. She is a forensic pathologist. And let`s
talk about what may or may not have happened in the jail cell. Bland`s sister is saying that the preliminary autopsy results show deep tissue
bruising to her back, because, again, while she was being arrested, this officer jammed his knee, allegedly, into her back. Could that have played
any role in her death?
DUPRE: Sunny, it`s probably not likely. If the injury was not very significant to cause injuries at the time, it`s probably just a bruise.
But we would really not know that until we did a complete autopsy. If the autopsy found that, then they would certainly list that as a contributing
factor, but it`s unlikely.
HOSTIN: Now, what is also -- a lot of questions I`m getting, at least on Twitter and people are asking about, she allegedly committed suicide
using a liner from inside of a garbage can as some sort of noose. In your experience, is it possible for someone to use a trash bag to kill
themselves?
DUPRE: Sunny, absolutely. Oftentimes, we think that a person has to be even completely suspended. You can actually sit on the ground and hang
yourself. So using a liner from a trash bag is entirely possible.
HOSTIN: And that is interesting, because we`re being told, we`re hearing, that her feet were still on the ground, touching the ground when
she was found.
Another question that I`m getting is how do you get DNA from the trash bag, because that surely is going to be a part of the investigation.
DUPRE: Yes. There`s many ways we can do that. We can get it from fingerprints, actually, we can get it from touch DNA, or we can also get it
from any skin cells that might have been sloughed off on the trash bag. or any type of bodily fluids that were left on the trash bag.
HOSTIN: Thank you so much, Dr. Dupre, for joining me. I also want to bring in Seth Meyers. He`s a clinical psychologist. Another topic of
concern here is why would a woman who appears very forthright and alive during this dashcam video, during this arrest, why would she three days
later after fighting for her rights kill herself? Many are saying in her family she had no signs of depression.
MEYERS: Let me say this. If someone successfully suicides, there is always rehearsal behavior in advance. And I`ll explain what that means.
Or there are symptoms that you see leading up to it. So there are things like writing a suicide note, giving things away that have personal meaning.
Mentioning to friends they feel overwhelmed. So you know, somebody doesn`t just commit suicide out of the blue. There`s often signs of extreme
depression, sadness, not being able to show up for work, not being able to do your usual daily activities. Suicide does not happen out of the blue.
HOSTIN: Is it possible then that she had been very depressed and contemplating suicide, and yet nobody in her family knew about that?
[20:40:00]
MEYERS: It`s absolutely possible that someone commits suicide without anybody knowing, because there is so much shame most people have around
saying, listen, I feel that life is so unmanageable, I can`t do it. A lot of people will swallow those feelings, keep them to themselves, to really
save their own pride.
HOSTIN: Can we show a video that we have from Sandra Bland`s Facebook page in which she does discuss having some depression?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLAND: It`s been two long weeks and I have been missing in action, but I`ve got to be honest with you, guys. I`m suffering from something
that some of you all maybe dealing with right now. It`s a little bit of depression as well as PTSD. I`ve been really stressed out over these past
couple of weeks, but that does not excuse me not keeping my promise to you all by letting you know that somebody cares about you, somebody loves you,
and that you can go out there and do great things. But I want you guys to know that I`m a human. And so if there are any of you dealing with these
same things, depression, post-traumatic stress disorder, it`s okay. It`s okay to talk about it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOSTIN: That`s video from Sandra Bland`s Facebook page in which she does discuss having depression, but we also know she was just about to
start a new job. So Seth Meyers, clinical psychologist, what does that tell you?
MEYERS: It is so interesting. Now, in 2015, people are using social media to convey to others what they are going through emotionally. I do
threat assessments in Los Angeles, and I can tell you one of the questions that I ask is let me have access to your social media accounts. Let me see
what you`re posting. Because people will post threats about hurting other people. People will post information about feeling depressed, suicidal.
So I guess the question is, are they posting this as a cry for help? Sometimes.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:46:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[ bleep ].
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She then proceed to say that the officer had put his knees in her back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The family`s attorney says that an independent autopsy shows deep tissue bruising to Bland`s back. What he says is
consistent with someone having kneed her in the back.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And that she thought her shoulder was broken.
BLAND: You`re about to break my [ bleep ] wrist.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop moving!
BLAND: I`m standing still.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bland family attorney questions any medical attention she received when she was booked.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOSTIN: Now that`s video of Sandra Bland`s arrest from Youtube. now, we`ve all been watching and talking about this dashcam video that was
recently released. However, many people are questioning, questioning, the authenticity of that video, because they have noticed glitches. Most
notably, Ava Duvernay, the director of award-winning "Selma" tweeted this yesterday. She says, "I edit footage for a living, but anyone can see that
this official video has been cut. Read/watch, why? #sandrabland."
Now so I want to bring back Lisa Lockwood, because we know there`s been this sort of crisis in confidence of the police departments across the
country. Now we`re learning that there were technical glitches for this dashcam video. What do you say about that?
LOCKWOOD: Yes, you need to follow the timeline of that video, where was that video, was it in custody which it should have been placed into
evidence immediately. Who had access to the video? And obviously if you have somebody who knows about editing and starts to see vehicles
disappearing, starting, stopping, but you still hear the audio, there are certainly reasons to believe that it was edited. So why was it edited?
What was the information that was pulled out from that video? Who is responsible for that?
HOSTIN: DPS is saying it was not edited and they reissued another dashcam video. They say it was just a glitch, but Lisa, what does that do
to the public opinion of what happened here? What does that do to the transparency that we all want from our public officials?
LOCKWOOD: The good news is we do have dashcam and we do have audio. And there`s a reason for it. And it`s going to be across the country,
where it is mandated everywhere. Because there is a need for it. Good police officers are happy, trust me about this. Police officers who run
the line of going from one side to the other are not very happy about it. But you know what, it`s going to help them do what they need to do, knowing
they are going to be monitored by doing the right thing, so I`m a huge advocate for it.
HOSTIN: As am I, I think you`re absolutely right. We need body cameras and dashcam videos and certainly across our country, and certainly
body cameras on every single police officer in the country. I think it helps both civilians and it helps our police department, but let me ask you
this. We have another piece of this video in which this officer never really describes to Sandra Bland why she was being arrested. Take a look
at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLAND: Don`t touch me. I`m not under arrest. You don`t have the right to touch me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are under arrest.
BLAND: I`m under arrest for right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (inaudible), 10-98. Send me another unit. Get out of the car. Get out of the car now.
BLAND: Why am I being apprehended? You`re trying to give me a ticket--
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I said get out of the car.
BLAND: Why am I being apprehended?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m giving you a lawful order. I am going to drag you out of here.
BLAND: So you`re going to drag me out of my own car?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of the car! I will light you up. Get out! Now!
BLAND: Wow.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of the car.
BLAND: For a failure to signal? You`re doing all of this for a failure to signal?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get over there.
BLAND: Right, yes. Let`s take this to court.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go ahead.
BLAND: For a failure to signal, yep. For a failure to signal.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get off the phone.
BLAND: On my (inaudible).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get off the phone.
BLAND: I`m not on the phone. I have a right to record.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Put your phone down. Put your phone down!
BLAND: Sir--
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Put your phone down right now! Put your phone down!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:50:00]
HOSTIN: Lisa, as far as I can tell, he tells her she`s under arrest but never explains what she`s under arrest for. Is that proper protocol?
LOCKWOOD: Absolutely not. He had reason to tell her what she was being detained for, why she was taken out of the vehicle. He absolutely
needed to tell her. You could see he kept calling for backup. Her numerous requests, why are you arresting me, why are you arresting me, he
never came forward with it, because at that point I don`t believe he even knew what he was arresting her for. He was adamant about getting her out
of that vehicle. He was upset that she had not extinguished her cigarette, and escalated. This is what`s called untrained. This is a rookie who is
untrained and doesn`t know proper protocol and how to deal with the public.
HOSTIN: What do you say though to those people who say, you know what, if you just comply with the police officer, everything will be okay?
I teach street law courses across our country, and I often say, you want your police encounters to be as short and sweet as possible. Had she just
complied, would we even be talking about this?
LOCKWOOD: I don`t know. We don`t know what would have happened at that point. Getting out of the car, violating her right, that`s -- I also
teach criminal law across the country. And telling her to get out of her vehicle with no reason whatsoever, he trumped up, you are under arrest and
he never told her that in the beginning and never told her the reason for that. She has every right to remain in her vehicle. She was not a safety
risk to him.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:56:00]
HOSTIN: A federal investigation under way as dozens of commercial flights have become the target of laser attacks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Double (ph) reports of lasers pointed at the cockpits of planes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Somebody pointed a laser at a plane again.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We just got the laser also here at 3,000.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That beam, it goes into their eyes and they can be temporarily blinded.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Literally blinds the pilot.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOSTIN: Laser attacks. That`s right, that`s actually happening. Let me bring in Dave Mack, a syndicated talk show host. Please, Dave, explain
to us what is going on regarding these laser attacks on commercial airlines.
MACK: First of all, they`re nothing new, they`ve been going on for a long time. But they`ve been escalated. A laser is something you pick up
at the dollar store, and you use it to play with your dog, or you`re using it when you`re presenting something at a speech. But people are using them
and they are shining them at jets that are landing and taking off, at the most crucial times of a flight. The laser gets inside the cockpit and
temporarily blinds the actual pilot and co-pilot. It lights them up.
HOSTIN: Dave, do authorities have any idea who is doing this? You say you can get these lasers at a dollar store.
MACK: Yes, now, they do have an idea of where generally the people are located. But to give you an example, we had 285 types of incidents
back in 2005. 3,800 of them last year. And in one night, in a two-hour period of time, over 35 reported lasers in the cockpit. So you have got a
lot of people in a very concentrated period of time shining those lasers into these cockpits.
HOSTIN: Let me bring in Mary Schiavo, a CNN aviation analyst and a pilot herself. Mary, thank you very much for joining us. And if you
could, describe for our viewers how dangerous is this to shine one of these lasers on a pilot while that pilot is flying a plane?
MARY SCHIAVO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: It`s very dangerous, because I don`t think people -- some people don`t realize the importance that light
plays in the cockpit, the instrumentation in the cockpit, there`s been a lot of studies put into it, what`s the proper amount of light et cetera, so
you can read and see the instruments at night. And any introduction of extraneous lights, such as these bright flashes of laser, can cause what`s
called flash blindness. And you literally cannot see if that occurs. If you have to use any light in the cockpit, you generally use a tiny red
light, but these bright green, yellow lights literally cause the pilots to be unable to see, sometimes for a short period of time, and in about three
dozen cases, they`ve had to seek medical care.
HOSTIN: I just learned this is generally done, of course, at takeoff or landing. Is that when pilots are at their most vulnerable?
SCHIAVO: Absolutely. That`s the most critical time of flight. It`s also where about 95 percent of all accidents happen, and it is where all
the traffic is congested. It`s where there are so many planes, and so that`s why it`s so dangerous. Landing is even more dangerous than takeoff,
because at that point, the pilots are following air traffic control instructions. They can`t deviate. They`re lined up with the runway. On
takeoff, of course often they have dialed in their autopilot settings, and they`re ready to go on autopilot at that point anyway, so landing is very
dangerous.
HOSTIN: Have there been any plane crashes because of these laser attacks?
SCHIAVO: Not yet, thank heavens, but there have been car crashes. Planes aren`t the only victims of these laser strikes. They`ve been on
police helicopters, they have been on automobiles, there have been automobile accidents caused by this, you know, runners. Lots of people
have been hit with these laser strikes, but so far it`s been automobile crashes that have been caused.
HOSTIN: Thank you, Mary, for that. Tonight, we remember American hero, New Orleans police officer Vernell Brown, Jr. 47 years old, killed
in the line of duty. He served with the New Orleans Police Department for 17 years, and he was training two new police recruits at the time of his
death. He leaves behind his father, Vernell Sr., and he also leaves behind a wife and five children. Vernell Brown, Jr., an American hero.
Dr. Drew is coming up next.
END
