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Nancy Grace
Previous Tensing Traffic Stop Video Emerges; Man Shoots Down Drone. Aired 8-9:00p ET
Aired August 03, 2015 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, Ohio. A University of Cincinnati police officer shoots a motorist dead during a simple traffic
stop. Over what? A missing front license plate. The officer charged with murder, a million-dollar bond, the cop now claiming he was fighting for his
own life. Against who, an unarmed man in a car with a seatbelt on?
Bombshell tonight. The officer now indicted for murder walks free on a million-dollar bond and immediately jacks up a battle to get his old job
back as a police officer, demanding sick and vacation pay. This as backup officers` stories now say they never saw Officer Tensing being dragged.
We uncover where he said on tape the dead victim never even reached for his seatbelt, much less a gun. And as we go to air tonight, we uncover
the YouTube video of the last traffic stop where the same officer makes a scene.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No criminal charges will be filed against the two University of Cincinnati police officers who arrived on scene to assist
Raymond Tensing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Officer Ray Tensing said pulled Sexton Henley (ph) over because his bumper was dragging on the ground.
RAY TENSING, U.C. CAMPUS POLICE OFFICER: Step out of the car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What am I stepping out of the car for?
TENSING: Because I asked you to. Step out of the car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What am I stepping out of the car for?
TENSING: Step out of the car.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That video from YouTube.
And live, Hillview (ph), Kentucky. A dad protecting his family guns down a drone hovering over the man`s daughters in the back yard. And get
this. The dad is arrested. Well, that`s bass-ackwards!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) (EXPLETIVE DELETED)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) (EXPLETIVE DELETED)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Meredith (ph) used a 12-gauge shotgun to bring it down after he says the drone was hovering over his yard, where his two
girls were sitting.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How long was he hovering?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Long enough for me to get three shots off.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. Cincinnati police officer, now indicted for murder, walks free on a million dollars bond. And immediately, he jacks up
a battle to get his old job back as a cop, sick pay and vacation pay to boot. This as backup officers` stories now say they never saw Officer
Tensing being dragged. He says aid he was dragged and he shot in self- defense.
We also uncover where Tensing said on tape the dead victim never even reached for his seatbelt, much less a gun. And as we go to air tonight, we
uncover YouTube video of the last traffic stop where the same officer makes a scene.
Joining me, CNN correspondent Jean Casarez, who`s been on the ground from the get-go. Jean, number one, Tensing, this cop walks free on bond on
a murder charge and he jacks up a battle to get his old job back? What?
JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It`s the union. The union is really assisting him and is at the forefront. Now, Nancy, when he was indicted
last week, it was administrative leave with pay, innocent until proven guilty. OK, we`ve seen that before.
But then they fired him. They out and out fired him from his job. The union has now said, Wait a minute, this violates the employment
contract due process rights. He`s supposed to have a hearing before any determination is made as to his employment status.
GRACE: Now, hold on just a moment. Justin, please rerack this. I want to take it from the top.
Everybody, the story we`re talking about is an Ohio cop shooting a motorist dead over a tag, plate. Let`s hear the video with the sound.
And Jean, when you say it`s all the union doing it, well, the union made it clear that he asked for this. He is now walking free and demanding
back pay, vacation pay, sick pay. And he had to sign his name on it. Now, he guns this guy down, and now he wants vacation pay? Really?
Let`s hear it from the top. Take a listen, Jean Casarez.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TENSING: I`m still trying to figure out if you have a license or not. (INAUDIBLE) Go ahead and take your seatbelt off for me.
SAMUEL DUBOSE, VICTIM: (INAUDIBLE)
TENSING: Go ahead and take your seatbelt off. Stop! Stop!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Now, see this? He`s actually running. He`s not being dragged anywhere.
[20:05:05]I want to go back to Jean Casarez. So Jean Casarez, not only has he walked free on bond, he is now insisting that he get paid back
pay for vacation and sick pay that he has not gotten. Seriously?
CASAREZ: Right. And as you`re saying, he had to agree to it. The union might be representing him, a union contract, but he did agree to it,
and he wants his job back. He wants what he says are his due process rights.
However, I`m sure there was a lot of reflection before he was out and out fired because the other two officers, Officer Kidd (ph) and Officer
Lemonschmidt (ph), who assisted him right there, they were placed and still are on administrative leave with pay.
GRACE: OK, so the other two backup officers -- oh, speaking of that gin bottle, we now understand it was, just like the victim said, air
freshener. It`s not gin. But that`s neither here nor there.
I want to get back to these two other officers. First of all, let`s take a look at just recovered -- there you go. There you go. This is more
bodycam video, and this is what we see. This is the new one. OK, look, this is not Tensing`s. Oh, my goodness! This is Lemonschmidt`s. This is
his bodycam video you`re seeing. We`re just getting a hold of yet a third view of what happened.
Now, look, I don`t see Tensing on the ground. I don`t see anything like that.
So Jean, according to what we are learning, the two officers that arrive on the scene`s stories now say they never saw Tensing being dragged
because at the beginning, I thought they said they saw him being dragged.
CASAREZ: That`s right. And this is so important, Nancy, for the prosecution because originally, in the initial incident report, here`s what
the police are saying. Now, there was confusion in the writing of that initial incident report. In fact, when these two officers, the assisting
officers that you see right there in the video -- when they gave their statement to police, they say they never saw Tensing being dragged by the
automobile at all.
GRACE: So in their official interviews, neither backup officer said they ever saw Tensing being dragged. Both of them also testified in front
of the grand jury.
Now, where did it come from, Jean, that one of these backup officers that arrive on the scene after the shooting, I guess, or at the time of the
shooting -- where did it come from that they saw Tensing being dragged?
CASAREZ: Isn`t that the million-dollar question right there? You know, Nancy, in the audio of these tapes, you do hear a little reference --
and maybe it`s just somebody mentioned something, and something was said again, or it could be that Tensing actually lied, saying that he was
dragged.
However, on the first five seconds of one of the bodycam videos of one of the two assisting, you do see him on the ground. First five seconds,
it`s like, right away, Nancy. And so the defense will probably hang its hat there, saying that he didn`t just get on the ground in any way. He was
dragged there. And officers...
GRACE: OK...
CASAREZ: ... are still arriving to the scene, although I think they were already there, Nancy.
GRACE: OK, Justin, if you could pull up the slow-mo version of the shooting because I want to analyze it very carefully. There you see
Tensing there. He`s sitting on the ground. OK, let me know when you`ve got it because I want to look at it. Here we go. Let`s look. It`s hard
to see exactly what`s happening, but he`s still got his seatbelt on. The victim, Dubose, still has on his seatbelt.
And now everything`s starting to go haywire. His arms are going up in the air. He`s got nothing in his arms. There`s the gun right there. And
then, all of a sudden, there`s the officer`s left arm that he says he got caught in the steering wheel trying to turn off the ignition. We`re not
seeing anything like that.
I did hear him yell out "Stop," but I don`t know what that`s in reference to. There you see it. You`re seeing it again.
All right, so Jean Casarez, I`m looking at the bodycam. I don`t see him go down on the ground. Explain to me what you`re seeing.
CASAREZ: Well, I see what you`re seeing. And so my question for the defense attorney who`s representing Tensing was, if he was dragged, why
wouldn`t the body camera catch it? His response to me was that he`s had calls from experts around the country on bodycams, and bodycams sometimes
don`t get every frame. And so they`re not perfect vehicles for that window into exactly what happens.
GRACE: But even for that instant, Jean -- he`s saying he was dragged. It would be longer than just a split second. What -- are they actually
trying to say that his bodycam went out for the entire duration of the dragging? Because I don`t see it!
[20:10:09]CASAREZ: That would have been the reference. That`s right. And so then you have to say, OK, we don`t see that on the tape. We see
running, just as you said. I mean, shortly after the shot, there`s commotion. You can see that. You don`t see a drop in elevation. You
don`t see a drop to the ground. But then you see the running. And so as the prosecutor said at that press conference, if he`s on the ground, he
fell to the ground through his own accord.
GRACE: And now demanding his job back, including sick and vacation pay. That`s a kick in the head.
Another thing we dug up -- Justin, if you can pull up that highlighted tear (ph), where in the past, Tensing was actually asked to try to get his
focus off traffic stops, that he was doing a fine job, but he needed to get off focusing on traffic stops and start focusing on getting to know the
community and doing something other than traffic stops.
OK, let`s look at the video from the beginning. Do you see any spot where Tensing is being dragged or goes down? Look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TENSING: Well, I still have to figure out if you have a license (INAUDIBLE) or not. Go ahead and take your seatbelt off.
DUBOSE: (INAUDIBLE)
TENSING: Go ahead and take your seatbelt off. Stop! Stop!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:16:08]CASAREZ: The two University of Cincinnati police officers who arrived on scene to assist Raymond Tensing...
TENSING: Go ahead and take your seatbelt off. Stop! Stop!
CASAREZ: ... will not be charged with any crimes in the case.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Jean, I understand that the morgue has stated that there was one entrance wound to Mr. Dubose`s temple, but they never recovered the
bullet. Do we have a trajectory path? Because, in other words, did it come from a downward angle going up? Did it come from an upward angle
going down? Did it go straight across? Was it front to back, back to front, directly cross to cross? Because that`s going to determine whether
the officer is telling the truth.
You can`t fight with forensics. So do we have the trajectory path?
CASAREZ: At this point, from what I understand, the coroner is still doing testing. We don`t have a release publicly of the trajectory of the
gun. I think we have to go at this point from the video because you see the gun, you hear the shot. And really, the bodycam, I think -- let`s put
it this way, the coroner probably has that bodycam video to assist it in its forensics.
GRACE: Jean, I want you to see something. Before we go to Mr. Pace, I want to show Jean the video we have uncovered from a previous traffic
stop with Tensing. Watch this, Jean.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m at the UDF (ph) on Clifton (ph). Can I get a Cincinnati police officer on site?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
TENSING: I need your name, your date of birth.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
TENSING: I need your date of birth.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m not giving you that.
TENSING: OK, if you refuse to identify yourself, we have a charge...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s the charge? What`s the charge?
TENSING: Refusing to...
TENSING: What`s the charge? What`s the charge? I just told you my name.
TENSING: Why do you keep interrupting me?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s the charge?
TENSING: You asked me a question!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m not. What`s the charge?
TENSING: Step out the car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s the charge?
TENSING: Step out of the car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For what?
TENSING: Step out of the car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What am I stepping out of the car for?
TENSING: Because I asked you to.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What am I stepping out for?
TENSING: Step out of the car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What am I stepping out for?
TENSING: (INAUDIBLE) to identify yourself. Step out of the car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just told you who I was.
TENSING: Step out of the car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just told you who I was.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, God. You can`t even go home on a Sunday night.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m trying to go to the ATM to get some money, and you all (INAUDIBLE) (EXPLETIVE DELETED)
TENSING: Step out of the car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What am I stepping out of the car for?
TENSING: Because I asked you to! Step out of the car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What am I stepping out of the car for?
TENSING: Step out of the car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What am I stepping out for?
TENSING: Are we going to do this all night?
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can we get a supervisor here?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don`t even have a reason for what y`all pulled us over for.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s not a reason.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s not a reason. It`s not a reason.
TENSING: It is a reason. Step out of the car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s not a reason. His airbag would be deployed if he was in an accident.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... supervisor?
TENSING: Step out of the car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where`s your supervisor?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can I just talk to you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get your supervisor.
TENSING: Step out of the car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can I request a supervisor?
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m not stepping out of the car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can we not get a supervisor?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re asking for your supervisor.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It doesn`t matter. Just (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re asking for your supervisor.
(CROSSTALK)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That video from YouTube. It`s a previous traffic stop of Officer Tensing`s, Jean. In this country, you can`t just stop and demand
somebody get out of their car, show ID, unless they`ve done something wrong, Jean.
CASAREZ: A criminal act, you`re exactly right, probable cause, reasonable suspicion that something has happened. And you can ask someone
to get out of the car, but it can be deemed to be an illegal stop.
And I want to tell everybody this is 2014, Nancy. It was just last year. It`s not that long ago.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:23:30]GRACE: Was Tensing caught on tape in another questionable traffic stop? The last time it happened, Mr. Dubose ends up dead over a
license tag. Now, here is a tape within the last year we`ve dug up. Demetrius Pace was driving the car. You`re seeing video from YouTube of
Tensing`s other stop.
Mr. Pace is with us. Demetrius Pace, thank you for being with us. I understand the whole reason for pulling you over and shining a light in
your face was because one side of your bumper was hanging down?
DEMETRIUS PACE, PASSENGER IN PRIOR TENSING TRAFFIC STOP: Yes. And I was actually the passenger in that situation.
GRACE: So tell me what was wrong with the bumper?
PACE: It had a small crack in it, and a piece of it was kind of hanging. It wasn`t dragging, it was just hanging.
GRACE: And you were pulled over for that. And my question is why -- to Marc Harrold, former office with APD, lawyer and author -- why not just
tell them, I pulled you over because your tag`s -- because bumper`s hanging down?
MARC HARROLD, FMR. ATLANTA POLICE DEPARTMENT OFFICER: Well, I think, obviously, we`re looking at the phenomenon of pretext ops and hoping that
one thing will lead to another. But in that situation, I think that`s what you would do. You`d just say, Look, your bumper is dragging a little bit.
If there was an actual crime to write a citation for or something, he would have gotten the license and proceeded from there. The date of birth
would have been on it. But yes, this looked like it got into a back and forth about the officer`s authority, and it went from there.
GRACE: You know, it just -- let me go to a psychologist on this. Dr. Greg Cason with me, Demetrius Pace, the passenger in the last questionable
Tensing traffic stop.
[20:25:02]Dr. Cason, what is going on with Tensing? Why so much animosity with -- I mean, the bumper was hanging down a few inches. Why
the drama?
GREG CASON, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, Nancy, we have to look at the culture of police and that they demand respect. And having respect and having
authority is extremely important. So when someone like Officer Tensing gets into a situation like this and somebody isn`t giving him respect, he
then starts to feel helpless and starts to move into a power play with this particular person he was in (ph).
So we`re going to see this back and forth happen. And it`s really tough with certain people, and we see it with certain officers who can`t
handle somebody standing up or giving them disrespect.
GRACE: Well, you know, I`m almost always on the police officer`s side, and if a cop asked me, Let me see your driver`s license, I`m sure --
Here, here, take it. Take it with you.
Melissa Neeley with me, WLW anchor. Melissa, it seems as if this has been a pattern with Officer Tensing.
MELISSA NEELEY, WLW (via telephone): Yes. In fact, Prosecutor Joe Deters had mentioned during his initial comments when the indictment came
out against Officer Tensing that Officer Tensing had had some questionable instances, and basically said that he had no business ever policing, is
what his statements were.
So obviously, not everything, I don`t think, has come out yet about Officer Tensing`s background. But we do know and are aware of that there
have been probably more than one incidents in which this attitude was displayed.
GRACE: To Mr. Demetrius Pace joining us. He was a passenger in that prior traffic stop we`re showing you right now, over a bumper hanging down.
Mr. Pace, when you heard about Samuel Dubose, a 43-year-old father of 10, dead at the hands of Officer Tensing, what did you think?
PACE: Actually, my exact reaction was I`m not surprised.
GRACE: Did you think, That could have been me?
PACE: I felt like that -- I mean, I felt like -- I felt like that situation could have gotten ugly, you know, just if I hadn`t recorded it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You see police officers are harassing me, and they won`t tell me why I`m being detained, but they won`t let me go. So I need
a U.C. -- Cincinnati police officer on site. And yet they`re not providing it to me? Yes, we chatted (ph) up, and they`re still...
(CROSSTALK)
TENSING: I still need your name.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I told you, man, I`m not getting out of the car. You`re not getting that information. I don`t have to give you that
information.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m not being detained, so I`m not in trouble.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m not giving it to you.
TENSING: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s crazy.
TENSING: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re pulling him over for something, you need his identification. You don`t need mine.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Great. Half of you all are here (ph) and half of you don`t. One police officer...
TENSING: I`m just trying to figure out why you`re not going to give us your ID.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why? What do you need my ID for?
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why do you need my ID? Because I don`t want to give it to you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If I`m getting wrote up for a citation, like, what does he have to do with it?
TENSING: We just like to know whosever in the car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why? Because you`d like to know. So I got to give you my information because you`d like to know?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right (INAUDIBLE) (EXPLETIVE DELETED)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:32:40]
GRACE: Live, Hillview, Kentucky, a dad protecting his family guns down a drone hovering over the man`s daughter in the backyard. And get
this, the dad is arrested. Well, that`s just bassackwards.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He said it stopped to hover over his fenced-in backyard where his two daughters were sitting outside.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop telling everyone we were hovering in his yard. And his neighbors too.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: David Boggs says he was flying the drone at more than 200 feet over Meredith`s home. He went and got his 12 gauge shotgun.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s an invasion of privacy. I would defend my property.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Let me understand this. Scott Johnson is news director of WVLK. A father has his daughter or daughters in the backyard, and he looks
up and sees one of those drones, which is -- there`s not a person in it, it takes pictures, it can take video, and amateurs can fly them like those
miniature planes. They take pictures, basically, or whatever they want to do. So it`s my understanding, Scott Johnson, this dad, William Meredith,
sees this drone hovering over his daughter in the backyard, he gets his 12 gauge and shoots it, and I`m just wondering, what`s wrong with that?
SCOTT JOHNSON, WVLK: For one thing, there are rules about when the gun can be discharged. And it was -- there is apparently a city ordinance
in Hillview, Kentucky that says you cannot discharge a firearm within the city limits, but it was a Kentucky state statute that Mr. Meredith was
arrested on. Mr. Meredith says he was carrying openly, that there was no violation of the gun laws, and he was simply protecting his property and
his family.
GRACE: Let me understand something. Scott Johnson with me, WVLK, also joining me, William Meredith, the dad that shoots down the drone he
says was hovering over his daughters in the backyard. Scott Johnson, did I just hear you say that it is a city ordinance, you can`t discharge a gun
within the city limits?
JOHNSON: If I understand it correctly, I`m trying to find it --
GRACE: You know what, I`m sure the U.S. Supreme Court would like to hear about that, since we do have a right to bear arms. I`m not saying
it`s always a good thing. But I`m interested to hear that the city now says you can`t shoot a gun in the city limits, so what if you`re about to
be murdered? Can you shoot a gun then? Or is that pursuant to the law? Is that an exception to the law?
JOHNSON: It may well be. Nancy, I honestly couldn`t tell you because I don`t have the actual statute in front of me.
GRACE: OK, Scott, I`ll quit barbecuing you on that. Let me get back to the drone. Scott Johnson with me. And I`m just being joined by William
Meredith, who guns down a drone he says was hovering over his daughters in the backyard. He goes right in, gets his 12 gauge, and shoots it out of
the sky. Mr. Meredith, what exactly happened?
WILLIAM MEREDITH, "DRONE DAD": Hi, Nancy, thanks for having me. We were cooking out that day, along with several other neighbors on the street
here. And I went into the house, and I was just relaxing, and my daughter came in and said, dad, there`s a drone flying around out here. Since this
has happened previous times before, and I called the police about it, and they tell me there`s nothing they can do because there`s no laws against
it, I did some research. In 1946, Cosby v. U.S. government, Mr. Cosby sued the U.S. government for flying mail planes over his property and won. That
case set precedent that land owners own their land from the dirt to 500 feet above--
GRACE: Hold on, Mr. Meredith. Let me tell you this, a little law is a dangerous thing. But I`m interested that you go online and you find
legal precedent for shooting a flying vehicle out of the air. So your daughter comes in and says, daddy, a drone is on top of us. All right, do
you go outside to look at it?
MEREDITH: I did, ma`am, I walked outside, and I saw it flying over my neighbor`s property. And she asked me, she said, well, what are you going
to do, I said I`m not going to do anything unless it hovers over my property.
I came into the house, I opened my gun safe, I retrieved my home defense shotgun, 12 gauge Vanelli (ph), and I went back outside, and within
just moments, here he came back and he came directly over my back porch and hovered there, and I took action.
GRACE: So you go in, I like to hear you say, you at least had your gun locked up in a gun case, you unlock it, you get it out, and you go, and
you`re saying the drone is hovering right over your backyard. Do I understand you correctly?
MEREDITH: Yes, ma`am, absolutely.
GRACE: Is that what your daughters also say?
MEREDITH: Absolutely. And including eight other witnesses that were outside in their properties and saw the same thing.
GRACE: OK. For those of you just joining me, William Meredith is with us out of Louisville, Kentucky. He says somebody flew a drone and it
hovered over his girls out in the backyard. And he shot the thing down. With me right now is Mr. David Boggs, it`s his drone. Mr. Boggs, thank you
for being with us.
DAVID BOGGS, DRONE OWNER: Thank you for having me on the show.
GRACE: Mr. Boggs, I`ve heard a lot of talk about your drone. Why was your drone over Mr. Meredith`s property?
BOGGS: Well, if you classify it being over his property at 272 feet in the air for less than two seconds, the real answer is, we were just
passing by.
GRACE: Hold on. For two seconds, if that`s true, Mr. Boggs, then Meredith needs to join the circus, because he`s something of a
sharpshooter. Are you telling me that in two seconds, your drone`s over his property, in two seconds he managed to gun it down in one shot?
BOGGS: Well, you got the circus part right, because this last week has been nothing but a circus full of tall tales and crazy stories. The
answer is, it`s my parents farmland backs out to kind of where the subdivision comes across, and so that`s been the No. 1 question is, to the
data that`s been provided. It speaks -- it`s our statement, it is what it is.
GRACE: I don`t know what your statement is. Why were you running your drone, which for those of you who don`t know what a drone is, you`re
looking at one right now. They are unoccupied. They`re motorized and controlled by remote. It`s like a remote plane. But it can take pictures.
It can take videos, and they can even be armed, all right? So, why, Mr. Boggs. And I`m not saying your drone was armed. Let me make that clear.
Mr. Boggs, why were you flying your drone over the Meredith property with his daughters in the backyard?
BOGGS: First of all, we don`t believe his daughters were in the backyard. We would not have any knowledge of that. Secondly, my friend
lives just across the street from the drone slayer.
[20:40:00]
And we took off, and he was in Las Vegas, as my kids, my family, my wife. There`s a handful of us there, church friends, and he -- my buddy said, I
bet you can`t fly over my house and take a picture. I said, yes, I can. He said, no, you can`t, so we were just playing around, I said, okay, I`ll
go now. And so Mr. Drone Slayer`s house just happened to be in the path going to his house. And that`s how we ended up over his property. And we
wasn`t -- the headlines read all this craziness from his daughter --
GRACE: Hold on, Mr. Boggs, with me is Mr. Boggs and Mr. Meredith, as well as Scott Johnson from WVLK. So you`re telling me you flew over
Meredith`s property, and his daughters were in the backyard, because they`re the ones that ran in to tell them that a drone was hovering over
them -- on a dare? This was a dare, I bet you can`t and you said, oh yes, I can? What was it, a double dog dare?
BOGGS: Actually, I`ll send you the text message and you can have it. I said the word dare, but let`s not misunderstand, he asked me to go over
to his house and take a picture of his house. He was on vacation in Las Vegas.
GRACE: Why did he need a picture of his house?
BOGGS: Well, why not? It was -- we were having a good time with our family. We was 270 feet in the air, and so just because someone crosses
your space for two -- I mean, it`s -- if the headline -- if it was 10 feet like Mr. Meredith said, then I would shoot it down too.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Where were you when the drone was over his property? Where were you physically?
BOGGS: A couple hundred yards away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:46:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Meredith used a 12 gauge shotgun to bring it down, after he said a drone was hovering over his yard where his two girls
were sitting.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How long was he hovering for?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Long enough for me to get three shots off.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Well, daddy sees, his daughter sees a drone hovering over them in the backyard. Daddy gets his 12 gauge and shoots the thing out of the
air. With me, that father, Mr. William Meredith and the owner of the drone, David Boggs. He says he didn`t do anything wrong. Mr. Meredith, we
have heard Mr. Boggs give his side of the story. He says he was 100 yards away at the time. And I`m about to go to our expert on drones, Missy
Cummings, from Duke University. But how do you really know where a drone is if you`re 100 yards away? But to you, Mr. Meredith, do you feel guilty
at all about grabbing your 12 gauge and shooting down the drone?
MEREDITH: No, not at all.
And to the aspect he was a couple hundred yards away. According to his own little video he put out with the flight path on it, it clearly
states right on it, he was 1,200 to 1,300 feet away, which is a little further than a few hundred yards, or even a couple hundred yards, and the
fact that it also says it was 274 feet in the air. I`m still waiting on team Vanelli (ph) skit team to call me, because I can`t hit a bird -- I`m
an avid hunter. My hunting buddies have already laughed at me. No way you`re hitting that at 274 feet, moving with birdshot.
GRACE: I`m telling you, Mr. Meredith, I`m a victim of gun violence myself. My fiance was murdered by a gun somebody shouldn`t have had. But
on the other hand, the Constitution is the Constitution. I just don`t understand why you get arrested. William Meredith, why did the cops arrest
you when you shoot down a drone hovering over your daughters, according to you?
MEREDITH: To be honest, you saw the video of my arrest. I was pretty upset. Due to the fact that these four men approached my house, I had no
idea what their intentions were, because they were pretty upset also, and that`s when I just informed them I was armed and I would defend my
property.
GRACE: You said that to the police?
MEREDITH: I said that to Mr. Boggs and his three buddies that came over.
GRACE: Whoa! Hold on, Mr. Boggs. You went over to his house and confronted him? You knew he had a 12 gauge, right?
BOGGS: We didn`t know what he shot it down. And if it`s a home defense weapon, who uses birdshot in a shotgun for self-defense? But yes,
we could see where it went down, and so we went over there, and he was in the yard jumping up and down like he just killed a trophy buck.
GRACE: OK. This is putting a whole new slant on it for me, because if I see four guys coming up my drive way or at my front door, and my
children are at home, oh, yes. H-e-double l is going to break loose. Missy Cummings, Professor Cummings, joining us from Duke University, could
you shine some light on the drones? For many of us that only read about them in a newspaper, can drones be armed?
MISSY CUMMINGS, DUKE UNIV.: Well, the military has the capability to arm drones, and there have been some recent reports of individuals arming
drones, but it`s a very difficult process, and it takes some real technical know-how. I don`t think we need to worry about your average drone owner
being able to arm it with anything more than a camera at this point in time.
GRACE: You know, Professor Cummings, in a logical, sane world, you`re absolutely right. But with everything I`ve seen in the court of law, I
don`t know what`s going to happen next.
[20:50:00]
Let me ask you this, Professor Cummings, everyone, Professor Missy Cummings joining me from Duke University, if you are 1,200 to 1,300 feet away from
your drone, do you really know how high up in the air it is, or do you have a general idea?
CUMMINGS: Well, it depends on the software you`re using, the ground control station. But you can know either exactly if you have the right
display in front of you or by the FAA regulations. You have to have it in line of sight, and it could not be greater than 400 feet in the air. And so
what you`re looking at is the slant distance. Is it easy to see something 1,200 beyond a slant distance? Yeah, it`s not difficult.
GRACE: Professor Cummings, hold on, I just have a J.D. Drones and their capabilities are not something they taught me in first year. So
you`re telling me that for amateur drone users, like Mr. Boggs, you have to have the drone in your eyesight?
CUMMINGS: Yes, that`s the law.
GRACE: Don`t move, Professor Cummings. So Meredith, is it possible that Boggs could see the drone at all times? .
MEREDITH: I don`t believe so, from the video I saw he posted, there`s two sets of tree lines between where he was at and where I live. And I
just would like to also add that the FAA states that you`re not supposed to be within five miles of an airport. We live a half mile away from an
airport. He was in a direct flight path on the landing approach.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:55:30]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He says it stopped to hover over his fenced-in backyard where his two daughters were sitting outside.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop telling everyone we were hovering in his yard.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: David Boggs said he was flying the drone at more than 200 feet over Meredith`s home. He went and got his 12 gauge shotgun.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s an invasion of privacy. I would defend my property.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: A suburban dad guns down an unmanned drone hovering, he says, over his backyard with his girls out in the backyard. With me, the dad as
well as the drone owner. To David Boggs, whose drone was shot down, you state that -- you said something about everybody was in in Vegas. Now you
are telling me you are about 1,200 feet away from the drone. I know you were taking photos or videos, but we`re showing what you sent us, and it
looks like a computer monitor, it`s not -- I don`t think the actual photos that you took. It looks like your -- I can`t tell what you sent, what is
that?
BOGGS: It`s the flight data, it is the actual flight path.
GRACE: OK. Did you take pictures or video? That`s what I`m asking.
BOGGS: No, we didn`t make it to my friend`s house. He shot it down before we got there. And his friend, his neighbor friend, Mr. Willey (ph),
his neighbor recovered the drone and gave it to the police, and when he turned it over to the police, he pointed out to the police. We never
touched it after it took off. He pointed out to the police that the SD card is no longer there. We didn`t touch it.
GRACE: Professor Cummings, bottom line, what do you make of the current facts as we know them, shooting down the drone?
CUMMINGS: I think this is a statement of technology, really, I mean, the drone could have been a kite, the drone could have been a balloon. It
doesn`t really matter. The technology itself is irrelevant as compared to the camera, the position of the camera, so I`m a real advocate for people
legislating cameras as opposed to the technology.
The fact of the matter remains, it is against the law to be discharging firearms like that in public. I personally have a daughter. I
wouldn`t want a drone flying over her, but I also wouldn`t be discharging weapons right over her head either. I think it`s important for people to
realize that the drone itself is a platform, it`s the camera that we`re worried about, and in the end we do need more (inaudible) regulation.
GRACE: You`re right, Professor. Bill Meredith, I doubt pretty seriously your daughters were standing under the drone when you unloaded
your 12 gauge. I doubt they were in any danger. But the fact that someone could be videoing your daughters, or taking pictures of them in the
backyard, that`s a little freaky, right?
MEREDITH: Yes, ma`am. And to address the fact that the bullets going into the air, had I come in and grabbed my rifle or a handgun or something
like that, that would have been completely different. I`ve been duck hunting for a lot of years. Most Americans, a lot of Americans bird hunt,
in some fashion. These bullets fall down over our heads daily every December for hours on end. This was number 8 birdshot. He claims to have
been 274 feet in the air, that`s almost a football field, Nancy. I tell you what I do, I`ll go -- you can stand at the one, the zero yard line.
I`ll go to the other end of the football field, I`ll let you use my weapon and the same load and I`ll let you shoot at me with it.
GRACE: I might just take you up on that.
Let`s stop and remember American hero, Tennessee police officer, Sean Bolton, just 33, killed in the line of duty. Served Memphis police five
years, a Marine in Iraq, lost his life one month after his father died and just weeks after being best man at his brother`s wedding. Sean Bolton,
American hero. Thanks to all of our guests. My biggest thank you is to you for being with us. And inviting us into your homes. I`m Nancy Grace,
signing off for tonight. Hope to see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
