Return to Transcripts main page
Nancy Grace
Charlotte Police Shoot to Death Unarmed Black Man; Woman Tries to Kill Self, Kills Dad of Three. Aired 8-8:30p ET
Aired August 06, 2015 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, Vermont. In a so-called cursed stretch of Interstate -89, a young woman described as brilliant
claims she`s depressed and wants to end it all, and she takes to the highway at speeds as high as 80 miles an hour.
Bombshell tonight. Twenty-three-year-old Karri Benoir jumps the median, hurling her Toyota Corolla into oncoming traffic, and in one fiery crash
claims the life of the so-called ultimate dad, a father of three little girls, a hero EMT. Of course, she lives. Tonight, murder by suicide?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A married father with three girls and an EMT with Richmond Rescue is dead. Vermont State Police say Karri Benoir
intentionally crossed the median on the interstate, hitting the victims` car head on.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And live, North Carolina. Newly released dashcam video shows the horrific moment a North Carolina cop shoots dead an unarmed man after
prosecutors say the 24-year-old college grad crashes his car and seeks help.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get on the ground! Get on the ground! Get on the ground!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shots fired! Shots fired!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. Live, North Carolina. Newly released dashcam video shows the horrific moment a North Carolina cop shoots dead an unarmed man
after prosecutors say the 24-year-old college grad crashes his car and is just seeking help.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shooting death of former Florida A&M football player Jonathan Ferrell. Charlotte police officer Randall Kerrick fired 12 shots,
hitting Ferrell 10 times, killing him instantly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Twelve shots fired, ten actually getting the target. Let`s take this in full. I want to see and hear it, please.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get on the ground! Get on the ground! Get on the ground!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shots fired! Shots fired!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don`t move! Don`t move! Don`t move!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: They actually handcuff him after he`s already been shot 10 times. OK, look at this. Look at this. There he is approaching. This is the
victim in this case, Jonathan Ferrell, unarmed, has crashed his car, looking for help.
Now, did you see -- I wish you could back it up because right before he starts running -- you know, look at the red mark, the laser beam on his
chest, and I`ll tell you when it`s coming. Here we go. Keep looking. Keep looking. There! Look! Did you see that? He sees them.
OK, I want to run it again. Look at this. Look at this. He sees the laser beam on him and starts running. That is why he starts running.
Look at this. He`s walking along. He`s not armed, tucks in his pants, keeps walking. There`s the beam! He sees the red laser on him, which is
from a gun or a stun gun, and takes off running.
Blake Hodge, news director, WCHL, what happened?
BLAKE HODGE, WCHL (via telephone): Well, we know that Jonathan Ferrell had gone out with some friends from Best Buy, some co-workers, and had gone to
a bar in Charlotte the night of the event, and then had left and dropped a few of the other members off in the party, and had then wrecked his vehicle
after the fact.
[20:05:03]And he was trying to go get help from neighbors in nearby houses, he knocked on the door. Neighbors called 911, at that point saying that
someone was breaking into their house. And that is when police arrived on the scene within the few minutes of that, and ultimately shot Jonathan
Ferrell.
GRACE: OK, let`s take it back to what Blake Hodge is telling us, news director, WCHL. So this 24-year-old college grad, Jonathan Ferrell -- he
is out with his friends. He drops them off, or they part ways. He gets in his car, crashes his car, has an accident, and he goes knocking on doors
for help.
Here`s the 911 call.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: 911, Norman (ph) (INAUDIBLE) 911, hello?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I need help!
911 OPERATOR: What`s going on there?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s a guy breaking in my front door.
911 OPERATOR: There`s a guy breaking in your front door?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, (INAUDIBLE) kick it down.
911 OPERATOR: OK. Have you seen this person?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes (INAUDIBLE) I opened the door and saw (INAUDIBLE) I just woke up! (INAUDIBLE) please!
911 OPERATOR: OK. All right. You say he`s a black male?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes! (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: OK. All right, OK. I`m right here. Is he still there?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes! I`m sorry.
911 OPERATOR: It`s OK, I`m right here. You thought it was your husband? Where`s he at now?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) yelling. Oh, my God! (INAUDIBLE)
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Now, what you`re hearing in the background is the lady set off her -- or the alarm was set off, so you hear that siren going in the background
as she`s calling 911.
So she hears somebody at the front door. It`s late at night. It`s dark. She goes to the door, starts to open it, and she sees him. It`s not her
husband. She thinks he`s breaking in and calls 911.
So to Blake Hodge, news director, WCHL -- in fact, he wasn`t trying to break in, he was trying to get help because he crashed his car. What
happened then?
HODGE: Yes, he didn`t have a cell phone. It got lost in the wreck, so that was why he wasn`t able to just call for himself.
Officers arrived on the scene. And this is kind of where we`re running into two different stories. The defense attorneys for 28-year-old officer
Randall Kerrick in this case are saying that Ferrell was aggressive and coming at Kerrick, whereas on the other side of things, you`re seeing a
little -- or you`re able to see some of the dashcam footage, but we don`t see the actual moment of the shooting there.
So with the 24-year-old Jonathan Ferrell looking for help, presumably, and thankful that the police had arrived, and then it seemed like they had two
very different interpretations of what was about to happen there, Ferrell thinking he was about to get some help, whereas the officer is claiming
that he felt his life was in danger and...
GRACE: Well, wait a minute! Hold on! Blake, Blake, hold on!
HODGE: Yes?
GRACE: I want to back this up because when they point either a gun or stun gun at him, he`s just walking -- no, before that. Before that, guys. Back
it up to where we see the wreck. Yes, there you go. Thanks. Thanks, Charles.
Now, watch this. He walks, and he`s just standing there, and they`re pointing a gun or a stun gun at him because I can see the laser beam. I
can see the red -- there you go, right there! So nothing was even going on, and they`ve got some type of a weapon trained on the guy.
HODGE: Right. And you know, at that point, he obviously, like you were saying, is trying to get away from a situation because he feels like he`s
in danger. And that`s where the -- once it gets off camera, the two stories that we`re hearing from the lawyers in this case go in very
different paths.
GRACE: Gotcha.
HODGE: So we`re still trying to, obviously, sort all of that out. What actually happened off of that, we do know, is that Ferrell was shot 10
times. And that was where they`re bringing in the manslaughter charges, that even if he was in a dangerous situation, as the officer there, that
was deemed excessive...
GRACE: OK, let me look at...
HODGE: ... fairly (ph) immediately.
GRACE: Obviously, the prosecution thought that it was unjustified because he`s been -- the cop`s been charged.
Let me go to Dr. Panchali Dhar, physician joining me out of New York. Dr. Dhar, I`ve been looking at the autopsy report. And what I am seeing is
that these shots are -- most of them, many of them are lateral, at the lateral base of the neck, and there is no stippling and there is no gunshot
residue.
To me -- one of officers, I understand, claims that the victim was on top of the officer -- was on top of the officer. And they`re claiming, are
they not, Blake Hodge, that they shot after he`s on top of them?
DR. PANCHALI DHAR, PHYSICIAN: It doesn`t matter. I`m looking at these drawings from the coroner`s office and the autopsy report. There is a
lethal injury going right into the heart, shattering his heart into pieces. Both of his lungs are down. There`s blood in both of his chest cavities
and there`s blood surrounding the heart.
[20:10:17]They also blew out his trachea or windpipe, so then he can`t breathe. They also put a bullet through his liver. So you`re looking at
five lethal gunshot wounds. I mean, one could have killed him.
GRACE: Dr. Dhar, what I`m wondering about -- what my -- I`m thinking about this forensically, Doctor. And you`re thinking about it as an M.D. What
I`m trying to determine is the trajectory path of these bullets because I believe that what I`m reading -- that`s why I need a doctor at trial.
That`s why I need an ME.
I believe what I`m reading is that these shots are lateral, are from the side, which means that he is not coming straight at him, all right? That`s
what I understand lateral means.
(CROSSTALK)
DHAR: ... penetrating wound to the chest...
GRACE: Right.
DHAR: ... at least three penetrating wounds to the chest. So it doesn`t matter if it`s coming lateral or not, or from the front. It`s penetrating
the chest. It`s injuring the tissues, major vessels, the heart, both lungs. What else do you need? What does it matter if it`s coming lateral
or from the front?
GRACE: So I`m trying to determine from these forensics what exactly happened. Kessler, do you understand what I`m saying about a lateral
gunshot wound?
RANDY KESSLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I do, and there`s going to be witness testimony and it`s going to be the credibility of the witness. If the
witness says he was on top, then that`s the case. If the guy was on top of the cop, that`s it. There`s not going to be a conviction.
You know, we only saw your video 15 times just now, but we don`t know how the cops were feeling. Remember, they got a call, there was a breaking and
entering, from someone who was just...
GRACE: There was not a breaking and entering!
KESSLER: As far as the cops knew.
GRACE: This guy did not enter the home! He was bamming on the door.
KESSLER: That is hindsight.
GRACE: Well, hey, no! No!
KESSLER: That`s hindsight.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... they knew. They were wrong, and that is not...
KESSLER: They were wrong, but...
GRACE: ... a reason to kill!
KESSLER: No, but in their mind, they thought there was a breaking and entering.
GRACE: I don`t care, in their mind!
KESSLER: Yes, you do.
GRACE: Put him up! What do you mean, in their mind?
KESSLER: Because what was...
GRACE: In my mind, I could think that you`re a little green man from mars...
KESSLER: That`s right.
GRACE: ... and run into your studio right now and gun you down.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Does that mean it`s OK?
(CROSSTALK)
JASON OSHINS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, you don`t want to take notice of the fact that this guy who`s seeking help is now bum-rushing the police.
You`ve got an alarm...
GRACE: He`s not bum-rushing anybody!
OSHINS: Nancy, you`ve got an alarm going off...
GRACE: He was walking off.
OSHINS: ... in the background, a 911 phone call. Never mind the breaking and entering. The alarm is going off, Someone`s breaking into my home.
This guy needs help, and now he takes off after the police? I don`t know about you, Nancy, but any time anyone needs help, I`d wait for the help, I
would never bum-rush the police. That`s what this guy was doing.
GRACE: I agree with you, I would never bum-rush the police! And if somebody did bum-rush the police, they deserve to be taken down. But what
I`m saying is, this guy`s just walking along. He gets a weapon or a stun gun pointed at him. He tries to run, and he`s shot 10 times. He`s not
bum-rushing. Look at him! He`s just walking forward. Look, I`m not taking a side. I just want to know the truth.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:17:28]UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shooting death of a former Florida A&M football player Jonathan Ferrell. Charlotte police officer Randall Kerrick
fired 12 shots, hitting Ferrell 10 times, killing him instantly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: You`re seeing shots of 24-year-old Jonathan Ferrell. He was a Florida A&M football player. That night, he crashed his car and was
beating on doors, trying to get help.
To Blake Hodge, WCHL news director. Blake, I don`t understand where the breaking and entering claim is coming from. I know he beat on the lady`s
door. She was expecting her husband. When she looked and saw him, she got scared. But where is the breaking and entering coming from?
HODGE: I don`t think the breaking and entering term is correct in this case. There was a 911 call, someone who was afraid that there was an
attempted breaking and entering, I guess would be the more correct term to use. It wasn`t a breaking and entering call, it was someone banging on my
door, in her words, trying to kick my door in to attempt to break and enter. But that was based only off the 911 call.
GRACE: Got it.
HODGE: What we have seen from this is just that he was banging on the door, from what the attorney...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: OK, Blake, did he knock on anybody else`s door?
HODGE: We know of a couple of 911 calls, so we would -- I don`t know that 100 percent, but I believe there was another house that also called 911...
GRACE: OK.
HODGE: ... and I believe that that was based off of just someone in the neighborhood at that hour (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: And you know, it`s not this lady`s fault, all right? People are saying, Oh, you misjudged him. You know, somebody`s bamming on your door
late at night, past midnight, whatever time it was. You`ve got your baby at home, lady`s by herself, somebody`s at her door, bamming on it, she
doesn`t know who it is, so she calls police.
It`s not her fault. I understand why she was afraid at that time of the night. But I don`t want this to be about her call. This is about the
police assuming that this guy is breaking and entering and pulling a gun on him while he`s just standing there.
Another thing that we`re learning, though -- to Cheryl Dorsey. We do know that Ferrell`s DNA is on the cop`s gun.
CHERYL DORSEY, RETIRED LAPD SERGEANT: Well, you know, officers are trained to identify a threat. They are trained to assess the situation
continually.
[20:20:02]And I`m concerned by the number of rounds that were fired. I don`t know how these officers are trained, but in Los Angeles, we`re
trained to fire two rounds in rapid succession and then assess the situation. We`re trained to look at the hands of the individual because
hands can hurt you if there`s a weapon in it. And it doesn`t look like any of that occurred.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get on the ground! Get on the ground! Get on the ground!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shots fired! Shots fired!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: What`s so ironic about this is that another cop on the scene never even took out his baton. So why did the defendant in this case, Charlotte-
Mecklenburg police officer Randall Kerrick, unload 12 bullets, gunning down the Florida A&M football player with 10 of those bullets?
I want to go and look at this in slow-mo. Let me go back to the very, very beginning.
For those of you just joining us. Jonathan Ferrell, 24 years old, has had a crash. He bangs on several doors. He tries to get help.
[20:25:02]Then he sees the cops. They see him. And if you see him walking up, you see that the cops train either a weapon or a stun gun on him.
What`s significant -- there you go! See? And he starts running when he sees that laser beam on him.
Cheryl Dorsey, retired LAPD with me. Cheryl, the fact that 10 shots were fired to me is excessive. But also, on the other side, Ferrell`s DNA is on
the slide and the trigger of the cop`s gun.
Now, why? For all I know, he leaned over and he got blood on him when he leaned over. I know that they handcuffed the victim. After he`s been shot
10 times, they lean over to handcuff him. But if the blood or the DNA -- it`s got to be blood -- is on his gun at the time of impact, what does that
mean, Cheryl?
DORSEY: Well, again, we have to look at what we talked about in the earlier segment about the close range, the stippling, whether or not the
officer was within close proximity when the rounds were fired because we understand that adrenaline will keep a person moving even after they`ve
been hit with a fatal round just a little bit.
But I`m more concerned about what led up to the shooting. I`m concerned about the tactics. I`m concerned about the officers not assessing a threat
appropriately with this young man.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Randy Kessler and Jason Oshins. We know that the victim`s DNA is on the police officer`s gun. OK, Jason, what does that
mean?
OSHINS: You see him rushing at him. I mean, he`s right almost on top of him. Some of those discharges of that weapon, and you see the tight
sequencing of that, it`s within three seconds, could have been right on top of him. And they keep telling him, "Don`t move. Don`t move." Literally,
you see from the sequencing, he`s got to be right on top of him, and the tight, tight bullet concentration all in one area -- it`s a quick, quick
succession, Nancy. That`s why I think the DNA is there.
GRACE: Randy Kessler?
KESSLER: It`s doubt. You know what that is? That creates reasonable doubt. People in the jury have now some doubt that maybe there was a
confrontation, close quarters. He was grabbing for the cop`s gun and the cop shot him. It may not be what happened, but there`s enough there to
create reasonable doubt on the jury.
GRACE: Yes, I don`t know about that. Blake Hodge, WCHL, how are -- how is the state arguing or -- how are they countering that the victim`s DNA is on
the gun?
HODGE: Well, what they`re saying is that Kerrick was just frantic in that moment and that he really felt like his life was in danger, and that there
were circumstances surrounding this that he thought that this was the course of action he needed to take.
As you said before, the other officer there said in court today that he never thought about pulling his weapon. Kerrick had his weapon out and
obviously used it fatally there. So they`re saying that after the fact, he was in shock and in a way that was (INAUDIBLE) that that wasn`t his
intention to go do anything to this level, is their argument. But there`s...
GRACE: OK, so Blake, WCHL, you`re telling me, confirming to me that the other cop didn`t even pull out his baton, much less his gun?
HODGE: And the other officer in this -- Officer Adam Neil (ph), if I`m remembering his name correctly, told -- has said in court that, whenever he
was asked today, reading through the transcription here, "Did you ever think about pulling your weapon?" "No, sir," he answered the attorney
there by the prosecutor, Adrian Harris (ph). Whenever he was asked, he said, "No, sir, never thought about pulling my weapon."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:32:55] GRACE: Good evening, I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight, live to Vermont, in a so-called cursed stretch of interstate, it`s I-89, a young woman described by many as brilliant claims
she`s depressed and decides she wants to end it all. Well, she takes to the highway at speeds as high as 80 MPH, 80 miles an hour. The 23-year-old
jumped the median, hurling her Toyota Corolla into oncoming traffic. And then at one fiery crash she claims the life not of herself, but of the
ultimate dad. He`s a father, a married father of three little girls, a hero EMT, and, of course, she lives.
Tonight murder by suicide?
I want you to see the wreckage in this crash. The hero dad, the EMT, was actually out going to buy birthday supplies for one of his little girls`
birthday party. He was out driving to, I guess, a party city, to get the plates and the crepe paper and the candles, he never comes home. His wife
had just sent him -- it was Costco -- to bring home the party supplies. And look what happened. Because the so-called brilliant 23-year-old woman,
a co-ed, wants to kill herself? And she ends up killing a father of three.
Straight out to Eric Blaisdell, reporter with the "Times Argus."
Eric, thank you for being with us. I know this stretch of the interstate has been called cursed because there have been so many deaths on it, but
what happened in this case?
ERIC BLAISDELL, REPORTER, TIMES ARGUS: Well, this case is much different than those cases because this one official say she intended to cause this.
Usually in DUI cases or gross neglect operations cases, people die without intent. In this case, she intentionally, purposely drove her car across
the median and hit another car according to officials.
[20:35:10] GRACE: You know, we`re showing you pictures right now of the victim in this case, Brendon Cousino, just 30 years old, a married father
of three. There he is with the three girls. On his way to Costco to bring home the birthday decorations, the candles, everything for the children.
He had just recently actually delivered a baby as an EMT.
Eric, you`re telling me that this woman intentionally set out to crash into another vehicle with no thought whatsoever to the person driving the car?
How do we know that?
BLAISDELL: Well, that`s what Vermont state police are saying. They`re saying after they investigated this crash which happened on July 30th, they
found that she did this as a suicide attempt. The information they gathered showed that this wasn`t some kind of random accident. That she
purposely did this.
GRACE: I also understand, Dave Mack, syndicated talk show host, that she was set to be arraigned in her hospital bed, but for some reason, the
defense attorneys didn`t like that very much.
Tell me about the arraignment in the hospital bed, and what`s wrong with it?
DAVE MACK, SYNDICATED TALK SHOW HOST: Nancy, they feel like arraigning her in her hospital bed is just putting undue stress on the whole situation,
after causing this had incredible murder through attempted suicide. They`re going to find anything they can to try to get the attention away
from what she has accomplished in killing a husband and father of three.
GRACE: You know, the fact that she is going to be arraigned in her hospital bed, that`s not unusual. This has happened plenty of times, Matt
Zarrell, people have been arraigned in their hospital beds, and according to our research, isn`t it true, Matt Zarrell, that`s very often because of
a DUI crash or a crash such as this, and the perpetrator`s in the hospital room?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Yes, you`re correct. What you`re seeing right now is Roberta Lynn Soto. This is video of her arraignment on
charges when she was high and stole a car, ran a red light, calling a multicar pileup. She actually was sentenced to 13 years in prison. We
have another guy named Todd Porter, he was arraigned in his hospital room because --
GRACE: Well, hold on. Hold on. What we were just showing that video, you can see the judge in the -- in the hospital room arraigning the woman.
There`s the court reporter tapping away, there`s the sheriff armed in the hospital room. You`ve got the defense attorney, you`ve got the prosecutor.
Hey, that`s what you call a curb service, people. This is video from the "Fresno Bee." It`s a bedside arraignment for Roberta Lynn Soto, driving
drunk, causing a crash and a pileup and a death.
What`s the next one you`re showing me, Matt?
ZARRELL: OK. Next one is Todd Porter. He was arraigned in his hospital in Massachusetts. He was charged with drunken driving, motorcycle vehicle
homicide and speeding in an accident which killed one woman and injured two others. And that case is still pending right now actually.
GRACE: There`s so many others, so unleash the lawyers, Randy Kessler, Atlanta, Jason Oshins, New York.
All right, Kessler, what`s wrong with the bedside arraignment? This woman decides to take her own life. And of course I don`t want anyone to do
that, but to try and take your own life by murdering somebody else? Why shouldn`t she be arraigned at her bedside?
RANDY KESSLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, look, it`s a horrible tragedy. But the bottom line is, why make a spectacle of it? The only one who`s going
to get sympathy out of it --
GRACE: A spectacle? Why is it a spectacle?
KESSLER: You`re going to give her --
GRACE: It`s in the bedside.
KESSLER: Nancy, do you want her to have sympathy? People are going to sympathetic for her.
GRACE: Sympathy for who?
KESSLER: She`s in the hospital. She`s going to have more sympathy when she`s in the hospital than when she`s in the courtroom. She looks more
sympathetic.
GRACE: Well, hold on.
KESSLER: You shouldn`t order an arraignment.
GRACE: Can you just hold that? Can you just hold that thought for a moment?
KESSLER: Sure.
GRACE: Because an arraignment is not in front of a jury. An arraignment is simply when you`re read your indictment.
KESSLER: Right.
GRACE: All right? And you plead guilty or not guilty. And if you don`t do either one, the judge automatically enters in a not guilty plea, Jason
Oshins. You`re looking smug about this whole thing. So who`s going to feel sympathetic to her? There`s nobody in there but the judge, the
prosecutor and the defense lawyer and the court reporter.
(CROSSTALK)
JASON OSHINS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy --
GRACE: And the sheriff.
OSHINS: Nancy, I take a different tact than counsel on the bedside matter arraignment. I don`t really have a problem as you eloquently stated. It
happens numerous times.
GRACE: Yes, it does.
OSHINS: I mean, my focus -- my focus is going to be, at least on this case if I was retained, is working on a negotiated plea. I mean, I --
GRACE: That`s very wise of you, Jason Oshins.
OSHINS: Yes. Now, well, Nancy --
GRACE: So, Kessler, what is your problem? I don`t quite understand it.
KESSLER: Nancy, the people are going to be sympathetic. The people are going to watch it when you put it on your show?
GRACE: What people?
KESSLER: The people watching --
GRACE: What people?
KESSLER: The people who watch TV. The people, the public.
GRACE: They`re not on the jury, Randy.
KESSLER: They may be one day. They may be on the jury after an appeal.
GRACE: No, they won`t, because they will be asked, do you know anything about this case, and they will answer truthfully.
OK, so your theory is, she should not be arraigned today. Today or tomorrow morning in her hospital room because somebody might see this show
and find out about it, and turn up on the jury, and then conceal it from the judge and feel sorry for her?
[20:40:04] KESSLER: No. Is that --
GRACE: Is that what I`m understanding?
KESSLER: No. Not just that. You also wanted her to be in her right frame of mind. You want her to have every benefit of -- why do anything that
affects her right --
GRACE: Before she says not guilty?
KESSLER: Why do anything that affects her rights until she is perfectly capable of understanding everything that`s going on?
GRACE: OK. Hold on. I hear you, and let me address that.
KESSLER: All right.
GRACE: Let`s carry your lines of argument to its natural conclusion.
KESSLER: OK.
GRACE: You are saying that she may not be in her right mind because she may be on medication. OK. She can only say one of two things. Guilty, I
plead guilty, or I plead not guilty, or her lawyer who will be there probably we`re paying for it, who will enter the plea for her.
OSHINS: Absolutely.
KESSLER: Right.
GRACE: So why are you worried if she`s on medication?
KESSLER: I think it`s a cleaner process. You want to make sure there`s no glitches in the process as a prosecutor. I would think you would want it
to be 100 percent clean that she understands whether she`s pleading guilty or not guilty. She`s not medicated, she`s not under any duress.
GRACE: You know what, I`m going to give you two a few moments to percolate on your next argument. And in the meantime, I`m going to go to Rusty
Haight, who is the director of Collision Safety Institute and he is a renowned accident re-constructionist, former San Diego PD investigator.
Rusty, thanks for being with us. All right.
RUSTY HAIGHT, ACCIDENT RE-CONSTRUCTIONIST EXPERT: Thank you, Nancy.
GRACE: Just looking at the wreckage alone, how can the prosecution prove based on the forensic evidence alone at the crime scene what happened?
HAIGHT: Well, they`re going to have to figure out how fast she`s going and what she actually did. Did she steer? Did she accelerate? You know, the
objective, human vehicle environment, stuff you find on scene, and you know this is like so many other wrecks in a lot of ways. It`s tragic and it
tears up people`s lives well beyond what happened on the scene.
But you have to, you know, think about how you`re going to prove this up. You have to think about what you can gather on scene from the people that
are killed, and the survivors, the eyewitnesses, the damage to the vehicle, the marks on the roadway. And in this case, the gal`s car has what`s
called an event data recorder. So they`re going to be able to download that.
GRACE: Right.
HAIGHT: And figure out if she`s going on the gas pedal.
GRACE: Hold on, Rusty, Rusty --
HAIGHT: If she was going 70 or 80 --
GRACE: Rusty, hold on because I`m hearing right now, I`m being joined -- I`m going to get back to you -- back to you on the accident reconstruction,
crash reconstruction. It was no accident. Because with me right now is Brendon`s brother Zach Cousino.
Zach, thank you for being with us. Thank you so much for being with us.
ZACH COUSINO, BROTHER OF VICTIM: Thanks for having me.
GRACE: It`s really important to me that you`re with us and you speak out on your brother`s behalf. I don`t want him to be a statistic, I don`t want
him to be just a story that the media latches on to. I want you to tell me about him and about his children and about his wife.
COUSINO: He was a helper. He just helped everybody without asking or hesitating. You know, sometimes we him and haw about how we`re going to be
inconvenienced by having to go helping somebody out with something but that was never him. If I needed help moving something, he would move it. I
mean, he was an EMT as a -- you know, outside of his regular job as a carpenter.
You know? I mean, if that doesn`t show you that he desires to help people, I don`t know what does. You know, he was always -- he helped us, you know,
I`m the least handy person in the world, and all the renovations on our house were done by him and it just -- he just never hesitated, never
hesitated to --
GRACE: Let me ask you this.
COUSINO: To help somebody else.
GRACE: Zach, how are his little girls doing?
COUSINO: They`re processing it in their own ways as girls of their age you`d expect. I mean, the oldest is nine and the youngest is four. You
know, sometimes they`re OK. The 4-year-old is -- you know, she`s having a hard time processing because of her age.
[20:44:12]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: An EMT with Richmond Rescue is dead. Authorities say it was a failed suicide attempt by smashing into another vehicle.
Benoir was taken to the UVM Medical Center with significant injuries.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: She manages to live, even though she didn`t have on her seatbelt, while this father of three dies in fiery crash.
For those of you just joining us, a 23-year-old co-ed who`s described by many as brilliant goes into a depression according to her and decides to
end her life. And her bid to commit suicide she takes to her vehicle, a Toyota Corolla, and at speeds of up to possibly over 80 miles an hour,
jumps the median on I-89 and plows into a young father of three little girls. He`s on his way to Costco to get birthday party supplies for the
little girl`s party. And he dies. Right now the big drama, is she going to be arraigned in her hospital bed?
But back to Rusty Haight, director of Collision Safety Institute, can you give it to me in a nutshell, how can we prove what happened? She`s charged
right now with I guess it`s going to be some form of negligent homicide. But in my mind this is murder one. This is intentional -- intentionally
causing the death of another. So how can I prove that to a jury?
HAIGHT: Well, proving intent is going to be tough in a car wreck but what they could be looking for would be her to the accelerator pedal, or 100
percent open throttle, steering perhaps not a net car in terms of data but in terms of tire marks on the roadway that would indicate, you know, her
volitional steering from her side of the road to the other side of the road.
[20:50:10] And ideally maybe an eyewitness that says, hey, I saw her, there was no reason for her to all of a sudden swerve across the center median.
But she did.
GRACE: Interesting. Interesting you said that, Rusty Haight, because, Eric Blaisdell with the Times Argus, isn`t it true that the woman driving
her car right behind the perp, Karri Benoir`s vehicle sent out a Facebook or a text or something, tweeted, about how the woman almost clearly
intentionally drove off the road?
BLAISDELL: Well, we`re still trying to gather information on that, but what we can say is that officials firmly believe that she absolutely had
intent to do this, otherwise they wouldn`t be charging her with second- degree murder.
GRACE: And so what -- what do we know about those texts or those Facebooks, Matt Zarrell?
ZARRELL: Witness Amber, she posted on Facebook, she said that the car went airborne off the median and slammed nose first into the victim`s car,
gained there and nosedive into the hood. Both cars were instantly in shreds and the witness said that the victim never even saw it coming.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He knew all the princesses, he -- you know, he could do nail polish if he wanted to. And there`s a video of him. He figured
out how to make the kids` ponytails with a vacuum cleaner. It was happening regardless. So I just am praying for her and we`re just resting
in that he`s with God now and he`s, you know, in a better place.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Now "CNN HEROES."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MONIQUE POOL, CNN HERO: Sloths are very cute because they are very slow animals. They like to hang out. They have always a smile on their face.
Here in Suriname, we have the most pristine rainforest of the whole world. But it`s also facing loss of habitat in the urban areas.
Ten years ago we started doing sloth rescues. When sloths are in trouble, all the telephone calls come to us. My biggest rescue ever was this plot
of land that was going to be cleared. We rescued in total 200 animals, mostly sloths. There were sloths all over in my living room, in the cages.
I was sloth-ified. I still have a lot of sloths. He came in with his nails cut. That`s why he has to stay with us.
It`s a lot of work. But wherever I go in my house, I may see a slot. What does this sloth doing? It sleeps, it grooms, it eats. And it sleeps a
little bit more. It`s ridiculous the way he`s lying. My life with sloths.
The best part of a rescue is when we release the animal. You`re going to the forest. Sloths are not pets. Wild animals belong in the wild. Find
yourself a safe spot.
My work is about the environment. We should value it and protect it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:57:33] UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Brendon Cousino served seven years as an EMT with Richmond Rescue. Tragically his life ended in a three-car crash
here on Interstate-89.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Authorities say it was a failed suicide attempt by smashing into another vehicle.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: A sheriff is going to claim at trial that she was depressed and that somehow that makes all of this excusable? Well, it`s not. A 23-year-
old co-ed described as brilliant by others decides she`s depressed and wants to end it all. But what she ended was not her own life, but the life
of a 30-year-old father of three little girls left behind.
You know, Matt Zarrell, this has resulted in all sorts of stories that this stretch or that I-89 is actually cursed.
ZARRELL: Yes. In just an initial search, Nancy, we came up with multiple instances very recently of deadly crashes on this interstate. A mother,
father and 7-year-old boy were killed in a crash in I-89 in June. Two milk tanker trucks and a car were involved in a fiery crash that killed two
people. There are two other people killed in a two-car crash in December a couple of years ago. And there was another dead and two injured on a crash
in April of this year. So multiple crashes all resulting in fatalities, all on Interstate-89.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is every parent`s worst nightmare. I care about everybody else`s grief for Brendon, it almost sometimes just makes my own
grief that much more bittersweet. He`s touched so many lives.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Let`s remember, American hero, Army Staff Sergeant Santiago Halsel. Just 32, Bowling Green, Kentucky. Second tour, Bronze Star, Purple Heart,
Army Service Ribbon. From a family of military vets, gave up college to enlist. Parents Vesdon and Mary, widow Susan, three children.
Santiago Halsel, American hero.
And goodnight to our stars, interns Ryan and Andrew. Ryan heading off to senior year, dream job to be an "SNL" writer. Andrew heads off for WSB.
Good luck, friends.
Drew up next. My thank you is to all of our guests tonight but especially to you, for being with us and inviting us into your homes. I`m Nancy Grace
signing off for tonight. Hope to see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
