Return to Transcripts main page
Nancy Grace
Charlotte Shooter Cop Caught on Video; Woman Caught Shoplifting at Victoria`s Secret. Aired 8-8:30p ET
Aired August 13, 2015 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, North Carolina. Dashcam video shows the horrific moment a North Carolina cop shoots dead an unarmed
man after prosecutors say the 24-year-old college grad crashes his car and seeks help.
Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, critical evidence emerges, including secret surveillance of the shooter cop. But does his story caught on
camera jibe with forensics?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s a guy breaking into my front door!
911 OPERATOR: There`s a guy breaking into your front door?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Charlotte police officer Randall Kerrick.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He fit the description of somebody who just broke into somebody`s house.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Charged in the shooting death of former Florida A&M football player Jonathan Ferrell.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And live, female shopper busted allegedly shoplifting at Victoria`s Secret. Employees grab the Victoria`s Secret bag to find inside not just
skinny jeans and skimpy lingerie, but the body of a tiny baby boy, ripped by hand from the umbilical hand.
Tonight, police say her own words, "Let`s take this (EXPLETIVE DELETED), dig a hole, LOL, then go eat I-Hop." Can you say murder one?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mom is stopped by security guards at a busy Victoria`s Secret store, suspected of stealing sexy underwear. While searching her
bag, security notices a foul odor and makes a chilling discovery, a dead eight-and-a-half-pound baby boy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight, live to North Carolina. Dashcam video shows the horrific moment a North Carolina cop shoots dead an unarmed man after
prosecutors say the 24-year-old college graduate crashes his car and seeks help. Well, in the last hours, critical evidence emerges, including secret
surveillance video of the shooter cop. But does the cop`s story, caught on camera, jibe with forensics?
First of all, let`s take a look, from the beginning, Justin, please, of the actual shooting. Take a look as we re-rack it. You are seeing video of
Jonathan Ferrell, a 24-year-old college grad. He`s been bamming on doors to try to get help, but he encounters police.
Uh-oh! He`s got a laser on him! He takes off running, afraid they`re going to shoot him. And in fact, they did. Interesting, of all the cops
at the scene, only one cop pulls a weapon. Only one cop pulls his gun. Another cop says he didn`t even bother to bring out his baton.
Look at this. He sees the laser on him, as do I, and he takes off running. Clearly unarmed!
Joining me right now, editor with "The Charlotte Observer," in court, Eric Frazier. Eric, Randall Kerrick caught on video. I`ve watched it
carefully, and from what I can tell, it is not jibing with the forensics.
Let`s take a look at some of what the shooter cop, Randall Kerrick, says on interrogation doesn`t jibe with his story. Listen
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Describe the person you saw at that point in time. Describe everything about that person.
RANDALL KERRICK, CHARLOTTE POLICE OFFICER: Black male, short hair, I`d say approximately 5-9, 190, 195 pounds, muscular build. He had -- he had some
crazy-looking eyes. I don`t know if he was wearing contacts.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Elaborate on "crazy-looking eyes." What -- what drew your attention to his eyes? And describe -- (INAUDIBLE) more details about
"crazy-looking."
[20:05:05]KERRICK: They almost -- they almost looked gray. They almost looked like they were a hologram of some sort. They almost looked like
they were gray.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Like you see sometimes people are wearing...
KERRICK: Like contacts. It was very strange.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: To Eric Frazier with "The Charlotte Observer." Eric, are you telling me that in the dark -- if you could run that again, please, Justin.
In the dark, before he starts unloading 12 bullets, he could see the guy`s eyes and says they were crazy eyes, like he had contacts, like his eyes
looked like a hologram? Because all I can see right now -- I can see -- I can see that laser on him.
So the cop is actually saying one of the reasons he unloads bullets into this 24-year-old college grad, unarmed, is because he had crazy eyes?
ERIC FRAZIER, "CHARLOTTE OBSERVER" (via telephone): Well, yes, there are definitely some inconsistencies between what Kerrick initially says to
investigators and what the dashcam video later showed. And that`s part of why he was ultimately charged because, initially...
GRACE: Can you give it to me in a nutshell, the major inconsistencies you see, Eric?
FRAZIER: Well, another big inconsistency was that he initially said that he thought he had fired between 5 -- you know, as few as 5 shots, maybe as
many as 7. And it turns out, he fired 12 times and hit him 10. That was definitely one big inconsistency between what happened...
GRACE: That is a big inconsistency. That`s seven gunshots you seem to forget.
For those of you just joining us, in the last hours, we obtain secret surveillance video of the shooter cop, where he gives his story. And from
what I can tell, it is wildly inconsistent with the forensic evidence. You cannot lie with bullet entries and exits, the trajectory paths, what other
witnesses say. Nor can you lie about dashcam or bodycam video.
Interesting. Isn`t it true, Eric Frazier with "The Charlotte Observer," that he cut off his bodycam?
FRAZIER: Yes, he did cut off his dashcam. Officer Kerrick did cut off his dashcam.
GRACE: Interesting. OK, let`s go back to -- back to the surveillance video as the shooter cop gives his statement.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KERRICK: I get down like this. And I believe he was still up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tell me about his hands and the positioning of his body.
KERRICK: At this point -- at this point, he was just doing whatever he could to get towards me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you see his hands at this point?
KERRICK: At this point, I can`t see his hands.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you don`t see anything in his hands at this point.
KERRICK: No, I don`t. He lunges at me, gets down here by my feet. I felt a jerk on my gun.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Can you put him in the position for us, and describe the lunge. What do you think by lunge? Because he`s still
standing, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was he like this here?
KERRICK: He was actually, like, kind of down here with me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, was he laying -- like, laying on you or...
KERRICK: Grabbing at -- grabbing at my leg, coming up my body. And I`m trying to still get away. I`m trying to backpedal.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) is he down, like down on his knees, or is he down, like, on his belly?
KERRICK: Kind of more or less on his belly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
KERRICK: Kind of like that. Kind of like that. And I feel a jerk at one point. I let out a yell. I don`t know if I said, Help, I just remember
yelling and screaming, because, you know -- and so I`m still trying to get away, still trying to get away, and I got hit in the mouth at some point.
I don`t remember when he struck me in the mouth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: No. No! I`m listening to every word very carefully. N-O.
And you see the cop here, Kerrick, getting down on the ground during police interrogation caught on video, explaining what happened because what he is
saying happened, that the 24-year-old Ferrell was on his belly, crawling up Kerrick`s legs -- that is not supported by the forensic evidence. The
trajectory path of those bullets do not support that.
[20:10:04]And did you hear -- unleash the lawyers, Hugo Rodriguez, Miami, Misty Marris, New York. Did you hear, Hugo Rodriguez, who is defending the
police officer tonight -- did you hear him say he was trying to get away? Trying to get away?
HUGO RODRIGUEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Exactly.
GRACE: That`s not a point -- that`s not an...
RODRIGUEZ: Exactly.
GRACE: ... appropriate reason to shoot someone 10 times!
RODRIGUEZ: Hold on. Wait. Nancy, when you`ve been in uniform, when you`ve walked in their shoes, then you can say that, but you haven`t. He
responds to a possible break-in at a house. He sees a man rush him, tells him, Stop, stop, stop, get down. He fears for himself. He takes the
action that he needs to take. It`s unfortunate...
GRACE: Let me tell you a little headline...
RODRIGUEZ: It was a mistake...
GRACE: Yes, I have been on the street.
RODRIGUEZ: ... but it is not beyond reasonable doubt.
GRACE: Yes, I have been investigating out on the street for 10 years...
RODRIGUEZ: It`s not the same, Nancy. Come on!
GRACE: ... with convicted felons, dopers, you name it.
RODRIGUEZ: Come on!
GRACE: No, no, you come on!
RODRIGUEZ: Come on!
GRACE: I don`t care what you`re saying. This guy...
RODRIGUEZ: I have been! You haven`t!
GRACE: ... was unarmed -- unarmed! And this cop knew he was unarmed.
RODRIGUEZ: So? So?
GRACE: No! OK, to Cedric Alexander...
RODRIGUEZ: We don`t put people in jail for mistakes.
GRACE: There`s a dead body of an unarmed man, OK? To CNN law enforcement...
RODRIGUEZ: He made a mistake! You don`t put people in jail for making a mistake.
GRACE: ... analyst Cedric Alexander, I -- I -- look at this!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get on the ground! Get on the ground! Get on the ground!
GRACE: OK, we broke it down, and at one point, this cop says, He didn`t follow my command. We actually timed it. Four seconds he gives this guy.
He says, Stop, four seconds, and he starts shooting. He goes on to say that because he saw somebody else have a taser, it was his duty to pull a
gun.
We have obtained surveillance video of Officer Kerrick. His story, regardless of what Hugo Rodriguez would have you believe, does not jibe
with the forensics. And to me, this is not about a cop versus a civilian. This is about a shooting, an unjustified shooting.
Listen to this surveillance -- listen to this surveillance video that we have obtained.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KERRICK: And I have -- and I have lethal, and sort of as he`s approaching me, I`m backstepping.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
KERRICK: And I`m yelling, Stop, stop, stop. And he starts to do -- he starts to do something over here on the side, and then he starts to run
fast and he starts to -- not running, but he starts moving faster. And when he got to about this distance, I had my gun out...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This distance?
KERRICK: When he gets to about this distance, I fired my weapon. And it doesn`t faze him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And do you know how many times you think you fired at this point?
KERRICK: I felt like -- I felt like I had fired two to three times here. And I`m still backpedaling and telling him to, Stop, stop. I`m backing up.
And he just gets -- he just comes at me even faster and so -- I`m, like -- and my gun`s not even -- it`s not stopping him. At some point -- at some
point, I`m not sure if he pushes me or if he grabs at me, but I fall on the ground.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:18:44]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get on the ground! Get on the ground! Get on the ground!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Twenty-four-year-old Jon Ferrell is dead, shot multiple times.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He just immediately takes off and he runs toward a particular officer.
KERRICK: After the taser was deployed, I yelled, Stop, and the suspect focused on me. He was originally focused on Officer Little (ph). Then he
focused on me. And he was only focusing on me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: It`s so easy for many people to look at this tape and be desensitized because we see movies about shootings all the time. This 24-
year-old college grad you`re seeing right there has a crash in his car. He bangs on one door after the next, trying to get help.
Cops come because of the banging, and when he begins to approach cops to tell them about the crash, this officer, Charlotte-Mecklenburg police
officer Randall Kerrick, opens fire, gunning him down.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get on the ground! Get on the ground! Get on the ground!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:20:07]GRACE: For all parents out there that have sons and daughters, the thought of this happening, and at the hands of a police officer that we
are raised to trust and obey, is a contortion of everything we`ve been brought up to believe. This is not part of a movie. This is a young man
losing his life, being gunned down for no reason.
In the last hours, we obtain surveillance video of that police officer explaining what he says happens, but it doesn`t jibe with forensics.
Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KERRICK: I see a subject fitting the description of the B&E suspect walking towards Officer Thornell (ph). Officer Thornell has his taser
drawn out on the subject, and I could see the dots, the red dots on the suspect`s chest, so I knew the taser was on. And since he had a taser, I
went lethal with my firearm. The suspect kept advancing on Officer Thornell, so he deployed his taser. He did not -- sorry.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s OK. Take your time.
KERRICK: The taser did not affect the suspect in any way. So -- so I yelled for the subject -- the suspect to stop, and he turned and faced me
and started coming towards me. And he kept coming towards me, and I was yelling at him to, Stop, don`t move, don`t move, stop where you`re at. I
was actually backing up in the process, still had my gun drawn on him. But he was completely focused toward me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:26:10]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get on the ground! Get on the ground! Get on the ground!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shots fired! Shots fired!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: You heard the officer say, the shooter cop say that another police officer pulled his taser, and then he, Kerrick, goes lethal after another
police officer pulled a taser.
But Eric Frazier from "The Charlotte Observer," in court, that is not what the police training says to do.
FRAZIER: No. Yes, the police policy is that you only escalate to lethal weaponry to back up a taser if the suspect is armed, and it`s pretty clear
that Jonathan Ferrell was not armed that night.
GRACE: Another issue is, in that last sound I showed you of his interrogation tape caught on video, he says that the college grad, Jonathan
Ferrell, was advancing on him. But yet in his own interrogation just a few moments before, he says Ferrell is, quote -- I`m quoting him -- "trying to
get away." You can`t have your cake and eat it, too. So is he advancing on him or is he trying to get away?
To Dr. Michelle Dupre, forensic pathologist. In a nutshell -- I know that you have studied these wounds -- I do not believe the forensic trajectory
path support this police officer`s story.
DR. MICHELLE DUPRE, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Nancy, actually, I think they do. If we look at all of these gunshot wounds, every single one of them is
from front to back. In addition, every single gunshot wound is either downward or slightly downward, even the one in the arm, which is described
as being upward.
But remember, it is being described as upward in the anatomical position, which means palms forward, straight down by your side. The only way that
gunshot wound can be as described in the autopsy report is if that left arm were raised above the victim`s head. and the shot came downward into that
arm.
GRACE: May I ask, then, Dr. Dupre, how the gunshot wounds are laterally going into the chest, which is from by the side, at a downward trajectory
path from front to back if the victim was crawling on his belly?
DUPRE: He would not have been crawling on his belly at that time. The crawling on the belly, according to the forensics report, to the autopsy
report, to me would indicate that he may have been on his belly when that arm shot was fired.
GRACE: Oh, OK. Well, let`s think through what you just said and follow it through its natural conclusion, Dr. Dupre. Re-rack the shooting, because
if this guy is crawling on his belly, he must be a contortionist. He needs to join Cirque du Soleil because he did a backflip in the middle of getting
shot in order for this to fit with your theory, Dr. Dupre!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get on the ground! Get on the ground! Get on the ground!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: So you`re telling me, Dr. Dupre, in that matter of seconds, the shooting victim is on his belly, as the cop says, and I quote, "trying to
get away," the cop starts shooting, and according to you, he somehow does a gyration and ends up on his back?
[20:30:01] Because if that`s true, he`s already been shot. So why wouldn`t he be laying flat on his back? I mean, to me, if you hear the rapid
succession of these bullet wounds, it does not jive with that theory. I just don`t believe it.
DUPRE: The only thing I can go by, Nancy, is the evidence in the autopsy report. And again every gunshot wound is front to back, including the one
in the arm, and all of those on the chest, which means he would be standing most likely for the chest wounds. But the arm wound, the only way the arm
wound can be the way it`s described in the autopsy report is if that arm is raised almost above the head and the shot is fired.
GRACE: OK. I hear you. I hear you, Dr. DuPre. And I know I`m at a disadvantage. You`re an MD, I`m just a JD. But common sense, you`re
saying now that he had to be standing. But we know, now that you hear the police officer`s statement in interrogation, he says he`s not standing.
He`s crawling. He`s crawling up his leg. He is not standing. So I do not see how these wounds jive with the forensics.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:35:47] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s a guy breaking in my front door.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s a guy breaking in your front door?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Charlotte Police Officer Randall Kerrick --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He fit the description of somebody who just broke into somebody`s house.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: -- charged in the shooting death of former Florida A&M football player, Jonathan Ferrell.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK. I want to play back how quickly those shots ring out after the cop says, "stop." Take a listen. It`s just four seconds. There you see
Ferrell walking up, he`s crashed his car, he`s looking for help. Obviously does not have anything in his hands.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get on the ground. Get on the ground. Get on the ground.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop. Stop.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We timed exactly four seconds. Listen.
In the last hours, we obtained secretly recorded surveillance video of the shooter cop as he gives his statement, which according to me, does not jive
with the forensics.
Now Dr. Michelle DuPre is a well-known forensic pathologist. She says it does jive and she`s basing that on what she reads in the autopsy report.
But, Dr. DuPre, now that you have heard the police officer`s story, as he divulges it in interrogation, which we have caught on camera, it`s far
different than what is put forth asserted in the autopsy report. He`s saying something different.
DUPRE: Nancy, I don`t think he is. If we look at the autopsy report, there`s two very key factors. One, absolutely every single shot was front
to back. Every shot. The other thing is, every single shot was downward or slightly downward. Eight of these shots were above the chest, above the
nipple line. How do you get downward trajectory unless you`re a giant?
GRACE: OK. Dr. DuPre, you did hear the police officer state that the shooting victim was on his belly, crawling to, quote, "get away," when he
was shot. Therefore, if he were on his belly, according to what the police officer himself said, these shots should be from back to front. That he
was crawling up his leg.
All right, I can see that we agree to disagree. Another issue, and I want to go to Cedric Alexander, CNN law enforcement analyst, the police officer
says that because his co-officer pulled out a taser, the other officer says he doesn`t even pull out a baton. That he then had to go, quote, "lethal?"
That`s not what police training says. And also, just because there`s been a call of breaking and entering, why unload on this guy?
CEDRIC ALEXANDER, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, Nancy, let`s back up here and think about a couple of things. First of all, this officer is
called to a scene by a home owner who was on the radio, on the phone with a dispatcher who dispatched this call to those officers, and whose officers
go to that scene operating on the information that they have just received someone is banging on the door, possibly trying to get into someone`s home.
GRACE: Yes.
ALEXANDER: Once they get to that scene, they make an initial assessment. And based on the evidence that has been presented, both the physical
evidence, forensics evidence, and now the video evidence, I think it`s going to be pretty -- you know, I think it`s going to be pretty interesting
in terms of how the jury is going to get that information. Because one thing you cannot change, you cannot change the science in this.
And the officer`s reason for firing, the way that he did in many ways, is questionable to everyone, especially the fact that his partner is standing
there with a taser, which under this case, the subject is seen as being unarmed, the taser becomes the appropriate instrument to use in order to
stop him.
[20:40:15] But this is probably a young man who was involved in a crash by himself, frightened to death, but of course officers don`t know this, in
all fairness to them. But you have to go to those scenes, make those assessments. But in this case where the chief came out and made early
statements that he did, the D.A. made an indictment on this case and --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: I understand, I understand how it`s made its way. But the other issue is, to Misty Marris and Hugo Rodriguez.
Misty Marris, I understand the cops` thinking that this is the guy that was bamming on the lady`s door. I mean, he`s in the neighborhood, he`s on
foot, he matches the description. I get that. But how do you go from a potential breaking and entering to gunning down someone that you know to be
unarmed, that you say yourself is crawling, trying to get away on their belly? How does that happen?
MISTY MARRIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, this case -- it hinges on whether it was reasonable for Officer Kerrick to believe that there was an imminent
threat of deadly force. Based on that dash cam video, he`s being charged by Ferrell. Ferrell doesn`t stop when he`s told to lay down. He doesn`t
stop. He continues to charge. That`s what we have to focus on. That`s the point here.
GRACE: Unarmed.
MARRIS: Was it reasonable? Yes. But that`s --
GRACE: Excuse me, Misty Marris.
MARRIS: He doesn`t know that at that time.
GRACE: Yes, he does. He`s there.
MARRIS: You have to look at Officer Kerrick -- you have to look into Officer Kerrick`s point of view.
GRACE: Eric Fraser, I hear what Misty Marris is saying. I hear her. She`s throwing in a standard of proof, which is a civil case, which is what
is reasonable, however, is it true, Eric Frazier, that just before we go to air tonight, Kerrick has been on the stand? The cop takes the stand?
FRAZIER: Yes.
GRACE: All right?
FRAZIER: He has taken the witness stand.
GRACE: Isn`t it true that he did not see a gun or a knife at any time?
FRAZIER: Yes, that is true. Clearly, in the video, you don`t see -- you can see both his hands and you can see that there`s nothing in them. It`s
fairly clear.
GRACE: OK, so that completely torpedoes Misty Marris` defense argument, unless you can get somebody sympathetic to that on the jury.
As I`m just telling you right now, Kerrick, you got to give him credit for this, takes the stand in the last hours. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KERRICK: After the taser was deployed, I yelled, "stop," and the suspect focused on me. He was originally focused on Officer Little. Then he
focused on me. He was only focusing on me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How tall are you -- how tall was the suspect?
KERRICK: Approximately 5`9", six feet tall.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How much did he weigh?
KERRICK: Around 200 pounds, 195, 200 pounds.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How tall are you?
KERRICK: 5`7".
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How much do you weigh?
KERRICK: 157 pounds.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you the same size on September the 14th, 2013?
KERRICK: Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did you do after that? What did you do next?
KERRICK: The suspect began aggressively coming towards me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And can you tell the jury about what pace he was coming at you?
KERRICK: At first it was a pretty rapid pace. More of a fast walk. And then one hand partially went behind his -- just kind of to the side of his
back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:44:07]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: A female shopper busted, allegedly shoplifting at Victoria`s Secret. Employees grab the Victoria`s Secret bag to find inside not just
skinny jeans or skimpy lingerie, but the body of a tiny baby boy, ripped by hand from the umbilical cord.
Tonight, police say, her own words, not mine, her words, let`s take this (EXPLETIVE DELETED), dig a hole, LOL, laugh out loud, then go eat at iHop.
She`s talking about her baby. Can you say murder one?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A lifeless, 8 1/2 pound baby boy is found inside a plastic bag.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, what she`s charged with now is shoplifting.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Mom and her friend are stopped by security guards at a busy Victoria`s Secret, suspected of shoplifting. While searching the
bag for stolen lingerie, a shocking discovery is made. An 8 1/2 pound baby boy, dead inside a plastic bag.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK. Let me understand this. To James Gemmell, news director, WRJW, this woman, who I have now discovered has had two other infants that
mysteriously die after birth, she rips the umbilical free with her own hands, wraps the baby up in something, sticks it in the bottom of a bag,
goes and shoplifts at Victoria`s Secret, and around this time, texts her boyfriend or her friend and says, let`s go bury this, excuse me, (EXPLETIVE
DELETED), LOL, and then let`s go to iHop.
[20:50:10] Do I -- have I summarized the facts, Mr. Gemmell?
JAMES GEMMELL, NEWS DIRECTOR, WRJW: Well, those are facts at least put forward by the prosecution. The defense is claiming otherwise. They claim
the baby was still born, Nancy. But accidental asphyxiation, that was the cause of death at least according to the autopsy or asphyxiation so that`s
the bone of contention.
GRACE: So she amazingly on her first child, who is now 4, and she only has supervised visits with it, claimed she didn`t know she was pregnant. The
second baby in 2012, that was still alive. The second baby died, giving birth in a bathtub. It died, too. Now this baby found in a Victoria`s
Secret shopping bag after she`s been shoplifting? How could that possibly, Hugo Rodriguez, Misty Marris, how can that possibly be an accidental
asphyxiation? Hugo?
HUGO RODRIGUEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY, FMR. FBI AGENT: That`s a good -- hello, I`m just listening to the report there. We don`t know what happened to the
baby, but obviously, even with what she has said and what she`s done, we don`t know what`s going through this young lady`s mind. We dealt with
these things before.
GRACE: Does it matter?
RODRIGUEZ: It is not natural the way it`s happened.
GRACE: Does it matter? The baby has air in its lungs.
RODRIGUEZ: It does.
GRACE: So it was not still born. And she wants to go to iHop, and get a pancake plate, bacon on the side?
"CNN HEROES."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FRED HEINRICH, CNN HERO: In the film industry, there are very few people of color. I think people feel shut out. As an editor for over 40 years --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I cut back and forth, back and forth.
HEINRICH: Picks up the pace, makes it more exciting. I thought I`m going to help the people who need the help the most.
NESTOR ARCE, COSTUMER, JIMMY KIMMEL LIVE: Growing up, I loved film and television, but my childhood was mostly taking care of my dad. He was
pretty ill. I really didn`t have, like, the opportunity to pursue my dreams.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In improv you always say yes. Yes to everything.
HEINRICH: We bring in industry professionals to teach low-income and minority youth how to make films.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And action.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s for you, baby.
HEINRICH: The training we provide is hands on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Once the camera is set, you want to shoot everything that you possibly can from that angle.
HEINRICH: Screen writing, directing, camera, editing, producing, casting. It`s necessary that they learn all these skills.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re trying to make emotionally impacting films here.
HEINRICH: The students who graduate find jobs through contacts with studio personnel.
ARCE: I can`t even imagine a world without the program. Words can`t say much about how much appreciation I have for Fred. When my dad passed away,
I`m like, he`s given me good advice.
HEINRICH: We`re looking for a more diverse future for our students in Hollywood, and they`re achieving that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:57:55] GRACE: A shoplifter at Victoria`s Secret has a lot more than underwear in her bag. A dead baby is there.
To Larry Fishelson, technology expert, Dynalink Communications, the last dead baby she was texting her boyfriend then about getting rid of the baby
writing, it`s dead. How far back can you revive old texts?
LARRY FISHELSON, DYNALINK COMMUNICATIONS: Nancy, what you can do is you can go ahead and get a subpoena to the phone carriers and go back and get
the texts. They`re usually held for up to five years especially with the new technology now and everything kept on the servers. So if you want to
get the info, you can get it. It`s there.
GRACE: Five years.
FISHELSON: And it`s obviously clear here.
GRACE: Larry Fishelson joining us.
Dr. Charles Sophy is with us. Psychiatrist, author of "Side-by-Side" out of L.A. This is her third surprise pregnancy. It`s her second dead baby.
And she goes shoplifting with the dead baby in the Victoria`s Secret shopping bag?
DR. CHARLES SOPHY, PSYCHIATRIST: Sick, it`s very, very sick. She`s had her chance. Three times, three strikes you`re out. This is not OK. This
woman is doing this as a coping skill. Somebody needs to make a stand here. She should not be able to parent.
GRACE: I hope, Dr. Charles Sophy, the prosecution is listening to you and that there`s not another fake insanity claim in this case.
Let`s remember American hero, Army Chief Warrant Officer 5 Jamie Weeks, 47, Daleville, Alabama. Fifth tour, Silver Star, Legion of Merit, Purple
Heart. From a military family. Served 26 years. Parents Jim and Glenda, brother Joel, sister Brenda, widow Robin. Four daughters.
Jamie weeks, American hero.
Thanks to all of our guests tonight but especially to you for being with us and inviting all of us into your homes. I`m Nancy Grace signing off for
tonight. I hope to see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
