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Nancy Grace
Subway Jared Pleads Guilty. Aired 8-9:00p ET
Aired August 19, 2015 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, Indianapolis. Police raid the home of former Subway sandwich superstar pitchman Jared. After
Jared catapults the multi-million-dollar sandwich giant to the stratosphere, police raid for child porn, carting out computers,
electronics from Subway Jared`s family home.
Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, Subway sandwich Jared Fogle pleads guilty to child porn and sex with minors.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JARED FOGLE, FMR. SUBWAY PITCHMAN: I`m Jared the Subway guy, and this is my story.
This is what I used to wear.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jared Fogle is going to plead guilty.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ex-Subway pitchman Jared Fogle pleads guilty today to child pornography charges.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That video from YouTube and Subway.com.
And live, Concord, New Hampshire. In the last hours, a young teen girl victim breaks down in tears on the witness stand describing an elite
prep school rape, all part of a virginity-taking game where male students keep scores written on the walls behind washers and dryers of the names of
their rape victims?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tearful testimony accusing him of rape.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I had no control over what somebody else did to my body.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This was not a consensual act.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) is pleading not guilty.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Alleged culture of sexual conquests at St. Paul`s school.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The "senior salute," a competition described as male seniors trying to rack up sexual encounters with younger female
students.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight, live to Indianapolis. Police raid the home of former Subway sandwich superstar pitchman Jared. After Jared catapults the
sandwich multi-million-dollar giant to the stratosphere, police raid for child porn, carting out computers, electronics from Jared`s family home.
In the last hours, Subway sandwich Jared Fogle pleads guilty to child pornography and sex with minors.
Straight out to Jean Casarez, CNN correspondent who`s been on it from the get-go. Jean, it`s almost too much to take in for so many reasons.
You know, we all think we know Jared because he`s been in our homes for years. We watched him shed all that weight. He was the one that made it,
that could actually lose the weight, keep it off. He`s got that everyday guy smile. He went from nothing, college student, to something big, Subway
sandwich pitchman, married, had a family, nice house.
Here`s video from YouTube and Subway.com.
Jean, what happened in court?
JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Nancy, formal charges were actually filed today. It wasn`t until today that we suddenly heard all
these revelations.
When the day started, we heard that it was going to be possession of child porn. That`s what sources were telling CNN. It is much, much more
than that. The formal charges that are now filed and Jared Fogle agreeing to plead guilty to these are distributing and receiving child pornography,
and count 2, traveling and interstate commerce to commit child prostitution, Nancy.
GRACE: OK, let me get my head around this. Jean, I`ve been poring over the federal documents.
Here`s video from YouTube and Subway.com. And there`s Jared as he begins to catapult to fame as the Subway pitchman star.
Jean, if you dig through these documents, which I know you have, did you know that some of the child victims in the porn were as young as 6
years old, homemade child porn?
CASAREZ: Yes, let me give you a little more facts on that, according to the information and also this plea agreement. They`re saying that a man
by the name of Russell Taylor, who was in charge of his foundation that came because of his fame with Subway -- and it was a foundation to help
childhood obesity -- that that executive director, Richard (sic) Taylor, in 2011 started recording secretly these minor victims, victims 1 through 1.
And the cameras, multiple cameras, would be stored in clock radios at homes that Richard (sic) Taylor, the head of the foundation, either lived
in or had lived in.
[20:05:06]And they would record these children getting undressed, going into the shower, coming out of the shower, explicit video of their sexual
organs, Nancy.
Well, what he did was, he sent them to his good friend, Jared, who is known for Subway, had contracts with Subway at the time -- he would share
these videos. Jared didn`t stop him from doing it. He allowed him to send him the videos. They talked about the videos. He had the benefit, as the
information states, of looking at the videos. That`s what count 1 is all about.
GRACE: I mean -- I mean, Jean, a lot of people are going to argue -- and I plead guilty, Jean. I plead guilty. The first time I heard these
charges, this raid was taking place in Jared`s home and that the guy who ran his foundation for children, ironically, had all this child porn, I
thought, Well, is there any way that somehow, there was an accident and that the guy who ran the foundation meant to send an e-mail and sent him a
file of child porn? Could that have happened?
But the reality is, once you get one file of child porn on your computer, why would you -- and you realize what -- why wouldn`t you say,
Hey, what did you send me? Don`t send me that anymore! Where did you get this?
But no, he got more and more and more. That`s the tip of the iceberg, Jean. Not only is there child pornography with victims as young as 6 years
old, all right, there is -- take a look at these text messages. Some of these are to the victims. "Tell me what you want to see. I`ve got it all,
Jane Doe, everything. Pictures or video? I want both." It goes on and on and on. Who are these messages between, Jean Casarez?
CASAREZ: Russell Taylor, who is the head of foundation to help combat and help childhood obesity, and Jared Fogle, who is the Subway guy. And
the reason federal prosecutors are making Jared Fogle responsible for these 12 young people, minor victims, is because he didn`t stop it, they said
today. He allowed it to continue, that he had the benefit of looking at these and, quote, unquote, "enjoying" them. And this is just...
GRACE: You know what, Jean? I`ve never said this to you before, but you`re kind of making me sick.
CASAREZ: It is sickening! It`s horrible!
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... I have prosecuted sex acts on children. And I have actually gone to Washington to fight for stiffer penalties on child
pornography and testified about it.
And the reality is this, Jean. Once you see it, once you see the child porn, you`ll never get it out of your mind, children in this case as
young as 6 years old in positions and scenarios that are so horrendous. And to think someone enjoys watching that?
But Jean, there`s sex with minors, too. Subway star Jared Fogle is pleading guilty to sex with minors. Not just one, either.
CASAREZ: That`s right. You`re talking about count 2. 2012, they allege that he came to New York City and stayed in the Plaza Hotel and
summoned a minor, a female minor, to the hotel. He had sex with her and paid her money for it. Child prostitution is what they call it in the
press conference with federal prosecutors.
He then asked this minor victim if she knew any other minor victims that he could have sex with. When federal investigators found this victim,
she said, It`s not only this one time. He came the year before when I was 16 years old and three different times engaged in sex with me. There is
another victim...
GRACE: I mean, think about it. Think about it! unleash the lawyers. With me, Carissa Kranz (ph), Miami, Robin Ficker, D.C., Jeff Herman, Misty
Maris, New York, and Jeff Herman, victims` rights advocate out of Boca Raton.
You know, I want to go first to Jeff Herman. Jeff, he was bringing these children, minors, to the Plaza Hotel for illegal sex with minors. I
mean, that`s where downstairs you have tea with Eloise. I take my twins to tea with Eloise downstairs, and Jared is upstairs having sex with a little
girl, OK?
JEFF HERMAN, VICTIMS` RIGHTS ADVOCATE: Right, Nancy. And he crossed state lines to do it, which is why the FBI and the feds were able to get
involved in this. And of course, it`s a federal crime.
You know, and these crimes that we see, the acting out of sexual abuse, molesting kids, follow the pornography typically.
[20:10:03]Pornography child porn is like a gateway into the actual sexual abuse. And what we know about this case is that Jared was looking for
victims younger and younger.
And fortunately, the feds got involved and the police authorities stepped in and stopped it because this would have continued, and the
victims, I believe, would have gotten younger and younger.
GRACE: You`ve been seeing video from YouTube and Subway.com.
With me, Jean Casarez on the story. In the last hours, everybody, Subway superstar pitchman Jared in court. He is pleading guilty to sex
with minors and child pornography, victims as young as 6 years old.
Listen to what the prosecutor says.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jared Fogle has been charged and has admitted to participating in a five-year criminal scheme to exploit children.
Beginning in 2011, Fogle learned that the head of the Jared Foundation, Russell Taylor, was sexually exploiting a 14-year-old girl. At that time,
Fogle chose to receive and repeatedly view child pornography involving that 14-year-old girl. This continued during a four-year period, and Fogle`s
actions resulted in the sexual victimization of 12 minors in the state of Indiana.
Search warrants for 16 smartphones, 5 basic cell phones, 5 MP3 players, 5 tablets, 6 laptops, 1 desktop, 6 loose hard drives, 5 cameras,
including hidden cameras, flash drives, 10 of those, 10 memory cards, 46 CDs and 22 DVDs.
The approximate amount of data reviewed by the Indiana State Police, the Indianapolis Metropolitan Police Department and the FBI includes
159,634 text messages, 27,140 e-mails, 47,623 images and 3,394 videos. Through this thorough investigation, 14 victims were identified.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:16:42]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a Subway Club right here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jared Fogle has been charged and has admitted to participating in a five-year criminal scheme to exploit children.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: You`re seeing video from YouTube and Subway.com.
Subway sandwich star pitchman Jared Fogle pleading guilty to child pornography and sex with a minor we know of at the Plaza Hotel, flying the
child to the Plaza Hotel, one of the most luxurious hotels and most famous hotels in New York City right there on the park -- it`s been in movies,
"Home Alone," you name it -- and the Ritz Carlton downtown, flies the children there to have sex with them on numerous occasions.
Subway, of course, distancing themselves from Jared Fogle. And I noticed right at the outset they distanced themselves.
With me on the story, Jean Casarez. Jean, I`m not talking about getting a file and not turning it in to police. I`m talking about 40,000-
plus images of children as young as 6 years old in sexual positions and sexually oriented. Not only that, but over 3,000 homemade videos, all
right?
Jean, another thing, when you go into federal court and you agree to the deal to plead guilty and you are saying, Yes, I`ll go to the federal
penitentiary between 5 or 12 years, that means they`ve got you dead in the water, Jean. You`re dead to rights. You are lock, stock and barrel
guilty, Jean.
CASAREZ: That`s right. And he`s pleading guilty to the two charges. There`s no lesser includeds involved at all in this.
Let me give you a few more facts here, which amount to the 150,000 text messages. According to the legal documents, there are text messages
where he discussed at length with prostitutes -- prostitutes! And it appears as though to be adult prostitutes in Richmond, Virginia, Kansas
City, Missouri, Las Vegas, Nevada -- that he engaged in sex with the prostitutes.
And once he realized they weren`t law enforcement, they were real prostitutes, he would then say, Do you know any minor children that I can
have sex with? And that`s how he would help himself to get some leads.
GRACE: So let me understand this. So he would hire hookers, and then one he actually has sex with them, because a sting cop will not actually
have sex with you, they`ll take your money, then bust one -- so actually having sex with the hooker, then he would ask the hooker, Do you know any
children I can have sex with?
CASAREZ: And the two minor females here in New York at the Plaza Hotel and the Ritz Carlton were minor female prostitutes. That was said
today.
And we also know that he -- there were audio recordings that investigators found from witnesses where he was talking to in Florida,
Georgia and Washington state, saying he had an interest in engaging in sex with minors. And he was particularly interested in age 14. Some of them
were a bit older, still minors.
[20:00:01]But the question is, are there other victims, Nancy. Now, what prosecutors said today is, because of all these text messages, as
you`ve talked about, and videos and -- and -- and photographs that they`ve looked at, they believe that all of the evidence they have, these are all
the victims, 14.
Could there be others? There could be others, Nancy, so this investigation continues.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With Mr. Taylor, what`s going on is, we allege, Taylor is producing this material and providing it to Mr. Fogle. If Mr.
Fogle had done the right thing when he learned of the victimization of the first victim, the first girl who was 14 -- if he`d reported that to
authorities, victims 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 and 12 never would have been sexually victimized.
So we`re holding him responsible for all of that victimization. He didn`t do the right thing. What he chose instead to do was to profit from
that exploitation and get the result for his own benefit and his own use.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here`s Jared Fogle. You may have seen him on the news or a talk show. He was inspired by Subway`s great-tasting sandwiches.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fogle chose to receive and repeatedly view child pornography. This is about using wealth, status and secrecy to illegally
exploit children.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:25:11]GRACE: Video, YouTube and Subway.com, that shows child pornography and child abuse is across the boards.
Doesn`t matter how rich you are, how many degrees you`ve got, what color you are, what age you are, whether you`re happily married, children,
you name it, because here is multi-millionaire Subway sandwich spokesperson, ex-spokesperson, Jared pleading guilty to thousands -- I`m
talking 40,000, 45,000, 48,000 images, videos, of child pornography, even flying children to New York to the Plaza and the Ritz Carlton to have sex
with them.
While all of us are downstairs looking at the Christmas tree and having tea with Eloise, he`s upstairs having sex with a little girl. Yes,
Jared, the guy we thought we all knew.
Question. Jean Casarez, what about his wife and his family, his children? What about them? There`s no way he`s going to have visitation
once he does get out of federal pen with minor children.
CASAREZ: Well, first of all, in regard to his wife, she issued a statement today saying that she is going on with her life. She is seeking
dissolution of the marriage, and all she`s caring about right now are her children. And I think we see on the screen right there her statement.
As far as him ever having contact with minors again, there is a 23- page plea agreement that has so many specifics in it. But what it does say in regard to minor children -- he can`t have unsupervised visits with minor
children, can never engage in another job of employment once he gets out of prison that involves children at all.
GRACE: With me, Larry Fishelson, technology expert, co-founder and COO of Dynalink Communications -- Larry Fishelson. Larry, the computers
and the cell phones played such an important part of the feds` case. Explain.
LARRY FISHELSON, TECHNOLOGY EXPERT (via telephone): Nancy, it`s a very important piece because from the computers, they could go in through
the hard drive and see all the pictures and images stored there. So whether they were deleted or not, they found that stuff and they have that
evidence.
Now, through the cellphones, what they did through the text messages, the videos by texts -- all the texts live on the servers through the
carrier. They got a subpoena and got that info. So all that info was there, whether it was deleted or not, and that was the evidence. Like you
said, Nancy, dead to rights.
GRACE: Jean Casarez, there`s no way he would plead guilty -- I mean, not even fight it at a jury trial. I mean, come on! If I was innocent, I
would go down fighting, all right, fight, fight, fight, especially on charges like this.
CASAREZ: Right.
GRACE: I want to clear my name. He walks into court docile and agrees to 5 to 12 in a federal pen. What could he have gotten if he had
gone to trial?
CASAREZ: Well, you know, on one hand, Nancy, what a deal because count 1, the maximum is 20 years. Count 2, the maximum is 30 years. They
are very separate and distinct counts. So it could definitely be potentially 50 years in prison, so 5 to 12.5 years -- what a deal on the
one hand. And that`s really the benefit that he`s getting. And he can`t fight, I think, when you have this hard forensic evidence with the
videotapes.
GRACE: Well, I`m telling you, I don`t think you could fight it, Jean. That`s why he pled. And he`s getting a sweetheart deal. He`s getting a
bargain.
CASAREZ: Yes.
GRACE: He`s getting the sandwich, the chips and the drink for 99 cents. That`s what`s going on here. I tell you, if I was this prosecutor,
I would try Jared and get the max on this guy. But I`m sure they had their reasons.
Hey, you`re seeing YouTube and Subway.com.
Clark Goldband, you know what I noticed? I noticed his cohort, Taylor, hasn`t yet done a deal. Do you think they`re holding out on him to
make sure the Jared plea goes down, that everything is, you know, T`s crossed, I`s dotted before this guy takes his deal in case they need him
for testimony?
CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, that`s a good question. And if you remember, the first time we heard about any of this
was a few months ago. Since there, there has not been much movement, if any, in that gentleman`s trial. He`s scheduled to be back in court again
next month, so it`ll be interesting to see what happens there.
GRACE: What a coinkydink! He`s coming into court one month after Jared`s deal gets put in place.
You`re seeing video from YouTube and Subway.com.
Everybody, take a listen at what the prosecution said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A lot of them didn`t know who he was. Some of them did. They didn`t know they`d been victims. With regard to a lot of
the victims in Indiana, they had no idea they were being filmed. So they had to wake up one day and find out they`d been sexually exploited because
they happened to be at somebody`s house changing clothes, showering, whatever. So it made it all the worse that that`s happening with a famous
person because it -- it draws attention to what they`ve had to go through.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:30:00]
changing clothes, showering, whatever. So it made it all the worse that that`s happening with a famous person, because it draws attention to what
they had to go through.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Live. Concord, New Hampshire. In the last hours, a young teen girl victim breaks down in tears on the stand as she describes an
elite prep school rape. All part of a virginity taking game, where male students keep scores written on the walls behind the washers and dryers of
the names of their rape victims.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Allegations that he raped her at the elite prep school where they were both students.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We believe that the suspect actively pursued the victim.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: With a plan he was going to have sex with her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As part of a decades old tradition at St. Paul, known as the senior salute. A nurse observed an abrasion on the accuser`s
genital area, which she says are quote, consistent with a sexual assault.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Joining me right now, Tracy Caruso, co-host with the New Hampshire in the Morning, WZID. Tracy, thank you for being with us. I`m
stunned at what is coming out on the witness stand. The alleged victim, a teen girl on the stand, breaks down in tears. What can you tell me?
You`re seeing video posted to Youtube of St. Paul`s school. It`s an elite and expensive school. John Kerry, Gary Trudeau, many, many Congresspeople
have been here. What`s happening, Tracy?
TRACY CARUSO, WZID: Nancy, first it`s blowing our minds, quite honestly, because St. Paul just has this wonderful reputation. It`s a very
expensive prep school here in New Hampshire, as you mentioned. John Kerry and just some amazing people that have gone on to do wonderful things are
alumni of this prep school. It`s over $53,000 a year to attend, and when we are learning of what was called the senior salute, it is maddening as
the mother that I am, and it just blows our minds, quite honestly. The senior salute is basically the senior men at St. Paul, it`s a contest, if
you will, of who can take the virginity of more underclass female -- female underclassmen. And you`re right. They chock it up. They keep track and
by graduation there`s a winner.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Carissa Kranz, Miami, Robin Ficker, Washington, D.C. Misty Merrace, New York. First to you, Mr. Ficker. I
assume that you would claim that this was consensual, but here`s the problem. The defendant -- and I say this as a former nerd in high school -
- he looks a little nerdy when you see him. He`s got his glasses on. He has won all these scholastic awards, including the rector award. You would
probably claim it was consensual, but he`s already said the sex never happened, so wouldn`t you say he`s between a rock and a hard spot, Ficker?
FICKER: This was a collaboration, just like John Kerry collaborated with the Cubans. After the event, she called him an angel and said you
were really good. That reminds me of a rape case I won, where the victim texted her work address and said, I hope you weren`t late for work, dear.
GRACE: Let me ask you this, Mr. Ficker. I assume that your rape victim was an adult. This child is a minor, and at the very at least this
is statutory rape in that jurisdiction. She can`t give consent, consensual or not, it`s still statutory rape. If the sex occurred. You left out that
little fact, Ficker.
FICKER: Because I believe that every young man at that school is smart enough to know that the age of consent is not allowed at 15. They
all know that. That`s why I believe this theology student didn`t do anything wrong. He knew what the line was, and you know it.
GRACE: Hold on, Ficker. Isn`t it true, Tracy Caruso, he said he was going to study divinity at Harvard? I don`t recall -- yes, well, not
anymore. Tracy Caruso, please respond to Robin Ficker`s comments.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: According to the nurse, what I understand happened, Tracy, is the incident occurred. The girl calls her mom, upset. Now if you`re
having consensual sex and you`re a teen girl, you`ve just turned 15, if it is consensual, why would you call your mom and rat yourself out? So she
calls her mom, tells her what happened, the mom calls the school counselor, the counselor calls police.
CARUSO: Right.
GRACE: Tell me about the e-mails, Tracy.
CARUSO: Oh, the e-mails back and forth between these two.
GRACE: Yes.
CARUSO: I was actually surprised the attorney said what he did about the you`re an angel remark, because the messages that went back and forth
were actually started by Owen Labrie.
[20:40:00]
He said first, you`re an angel. She wrote back you`re quite an angel yourself, so there was back and forth flirting, but it wasn`t her taking
the initiative by sending him a message about being such an angel. She said she had these calmer, nicer e-mails after because she wanted to take
control of some part of the situation. Today, she also mentioned that she needed to find out from him whether he used a condom or not, so she didn`t
want to be accusatory towards him. She wanted to be lighthearted to get that answer.
GRACE: You know what`s interesting, Tracy Caruso, Caryn Stark, you might be able to help me on this, because I never felt I adequately
explained it when I would be arguing to juries. When you have a date rape situation, where the woman goes into it, or in this case, the girl, the
little girl, goes into it thinking she`s having a date of sorts, and after the rape, the girl, or the victim, the woman, is so numb they try to have a
semblance of normalcy, like, okay, let me just get back in the car and get home. Let me get in the shower. What just happened? Did this happen?
It`s almost they can`t take it in, and that`s what I account her e-mails to.
STARK: And also a lot of self-blame, Nancy. When you`re in a situation, particularly when you`re a minor, you take on responsibility,
even though you can`t make that kind of a decision. You don`t understand it, and there`s so much shame and embarrassment that she wants to look like
she`s a good sport. And like she said, to take control in some way, it doesn`t mean that she`s okay at all. She`s just trying to fit in.
GRACE: Caryn, hold on. Unleash the lawyers. I didn`t get this update from the courtroom. DNA evidence found on the accuser`s underwear.
Okay. Ficker, how do you explain that? If there was no sex, what is his DNA doing on her underwear, Ficker?
FICKER: Oh, so this is the Lewinsky attack. I see.
GRACE: Yes, it is called DNA. Deoxyribonucleic acid. You call it Lewinsky, I call it forensics.
FICKER: They didn`t say what the DNA was.
GRACE: I bet they will.
FICKER: It could have been his skin. If he had a condom on, it obviously wasn`t anything else.
GRACE: What is his skin doing in her underwear, Misty Merrace?
FICKER: It didn`t say in the underwear. It said on the underwear.
MERRACE: Labrie has admitted that they did have some sort of contact. He`s just said they never had sexual intercourse. So that`s consistent
with this story.
GRACE: Could you repeat that? He said they have what?
MERRACE: That they did have some contact, but did not have sexual intercourse.
GRACE: Some contact. His DNA is on her underwear. That`s some contact all right.
KRANZ: Yes, that`s some contact. Also, she went to the school nurse asking for contraception, so she`s clearly concerned about being pregnant
after the alleged rape. The state has a lot of evidence against him, considering, you know, it was within graduation time. The long-standing
tradition.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:47:30]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tearful testimony accusing him of rape.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I had no control over what somebody else did to my body.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This was not a consensual act.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Labrie is pleading not guilty.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: An alleged culture of sexual conquests at St. Paul`s school.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The senior salute, a competition described as male seniors trying to rack up sexual encounters with younger female students.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: So the night of this incident at St. Paul`s prep, cost over $53,000 a year per student, John Kerry went there, Gary Trudeau, many
members of the U.S. Congress -- you`re seeing video posted to Youtube of St. Paul`s school. Pretty ritzy. According to testimony in court, the
senior men at this school played a game called senior salute where they tried to see who could get the most virgins to have sex with them. It went
all wrong, according to a minor victim, a young teen girl, who claims she was raped by this man, a 19-year-old freshman, Owen Labrie.
He said he was planning to go to Harvard to divinity school. Unleash the lawyers. Carissa Kranz, Robin Ficker, and Misty Merrace. Robin
Ficker, to your argument she`s making this all up, No. 1, to what end? No. 2, I guess the plot goes all the way back to the night of the sex encounter
when she says to the nurse, who finds lacerations in and around her vagina area -- she says I worry I could be pregnant. You think even then she was
planning to frame this guy -- for what?
FICKER: I`m saying she was not dragged into the room. She went there voluntarily.
GRACE: Right. It`s called date rape. Ever heard of that?
FICKER: A secret room. And she`s a social climber in the university. These younger ladies are claiming --
GRACE: She just turned 15, and she`s a social climber?
FICKER: (inaudible) the older seniors as well. It is a very close- knit society. It`s not just the guys in charge. The women have a big say in that.
GRACE: So if this was a trophy, why did she complain, Justin Freiman, of pain afterwards, go to the doctor, get a rape kit done, and call her mom
crying?
[20:50:00]
How is that a badge of courage, Justin?
FREIMAN: Nancy, it`s obvious here that something really bothered her. You wouldn`t just come out like this and make these accusations. It`s a
very dangerous thing to do.
GRACE: Dr. Michelle Dupre is with us, forensic pathologist out of Columbia. Dr. Dupre, thank you for being with us. How can we prove or can
we prove that they actually had sex? Because if it can be proved they had sex at all, his defense fails. His defense is this never happened.
Consensual or not consensual. It never happened.
DUPRE: Nancy, there`s a couple of things. One, we do look at the DNA. If there was DNA found on the underwear, it`s a positive sign. It
depends on what kind of DNA it is, whether it`s skin cells or bodily fluids. But during that sexual assault exam kit, there may have been DNA
found elsewhere on the victim`s body, as well.
GRACE: Dr. Dupre, according to her, he bit her breasts.
DUPRE: We can get DNA from that as well, and we can actually look at the bite marks and plot those teeth marks on a dental chart.
GRACE: I mean, really, biting her breasts. Does that sound like consensual sex between a teen girl? No, not to me. So Justin Freiman and
Tracy Caruso, Justin, what can you tell me about an alleged score board kept on the wall behind a washer and drier there on campus, and the school
kept painting over it and not realizing it what it all -- you`re seeing video on Youtube of St. Paul school. Do you know about that?
FREIMAN: Yes. They say it was kept to keep, as you said, a score of the women that these guys had been with. The younger students that were
virgins.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:56:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why did you think it was your fault?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because I didn`t kick, scream, or really push. But I did say no. I said no three times. And I don`t know in that moment,
I don`t know how I could have made it anymore clear.
I saw the I put in on like halfway through and I said, okay, trying to pretend that I was, that I understood, and that I was okay. That I
understood. Did you understand? No, I didn`t. I was still cloudy on that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That is what the alleged victim is saying about the prep school rape case. Allegedly part of a game called senior salute where
upperclassmen try to have sex with as many virgin lower students as possible. Even allegedly keeping score on the wall behind a washer and
drier. The facility kept painting over their scribblings, not understanding even what it was. You`re seeing video posted to Youtube of
St. Paul`s school. Back to the whole issue of the e-mails sent back and forth. The testimony of what`s happening. What more do we know?
FREIMAN: We know that a lot of times, she was saying on the stand that she didn`t want others to be concerned too much. She didn`t want to
bother other people with this, because it was a senior weekend, and her family was there. But really, she needed to speak out.
GRACE: To you, Tracy Caruso, co-host of New Hampshire in the Morning, WZID, will the defendant take the stand?
CARUSO: I`m assuming he`s going to have to. One of the things we learned in the e-mail today was after she, the victim, asked him via
instant messaging, did you use a condom, he came back and asked her, are you on the pill? So my question is, why would he ask that if he didn`t
have intercourse with her?
GRACE: Excellent point. And, Tracy Caruso, I want to explain one more time why the girl was there. How did she end up in that location to
start with?
CARUSO: She went willingly, and that`s one of the things that`s going to have the jury really shaking their head.
GRACE: Where were they?
CARUSO: She originally said no to the invitation. One of his friends then talked to her and basically said it`s nothing to worry about, come on,
you`ll have fun. She says, okay, and she agrees to it, but she also says this will be our little secret.
GRACE: Where were they? Where did they meet?
CARUSO: They met on, I believe, the top floor of one of the buildings, St. Paul is a beautiful campus.
GRACE: You mean on the top like outside on the top?
CARUSO: No, indoors in one -- it was a lab of some sort on the top floor.
GRACE: So they were going somewhere they really weren`t supposed to be a at that hour, and he asked her were you on the pill. There goes the
defense. We didn`t have sex. We have our eye on the courtroom, but let`s stop and remember American hero, Army Specialist Teodoro Torres Jr. 29,
Las Vegas. Army Service ribbon, National Defense Service Medal. Parents Teodoro Sr. and Carmen. Five sisters, widow, Eurissa (ph). Teodoro Torres
Jr., American hero.
Thank you to my guests and especially to you for being with us and inviting us into your homes. I`m Nancy Grace, signing off for tonight.
See you tomorrow night at 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
