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Nancy Grace
Body Stolen From Funeral Home; Ashley Madison Hacked. Aired 8-9:00p ET
Aired August 24, 2015 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news, tonight, live, San Antonio. A gorgeous young 25-year-old co-ed dies, natural causes. Family and loved ones gather
for the blond beauty`s memorial service. But just hours after the memorial, Julie Mott`s body set to be cremated, security breach.
Bombshell tonight. The 25-year-old`s unembalmed body is stolen! Why? What perv stole the body of this 25-year-old co-ed, Julie Mott?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Investigators believe her remains were stolen after the services.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) not believing that this is happening.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Funeral home employees discovered the body was missing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We wouldn`t rule out anyone at this point.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just can`t believe that it`s a class A misdemeanor. A Timex watch is more important than human remains.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And live, the popular TLC reality show seen here, "19 Kids and Counting," in a tailspin. Josh Duggar, now with three children of his own,
revealed addicted to porn, the Ashley Madison wife-swapping Web site in a total double life.
Breaking right now. Police investigating multiple suicides in the wake of the Ashley Madison hack, $500 million class action lawsuit filed on
behalf of the Ashley Madison cheaters now exposed. And topping it all off, the hackers now blackmailing Ashley Madison cheaters. As divorce is set to
be filed based on the hacking, the Department of Justice and Homeland Security may have been compromised because cheaters logged onto Ashley
Madison on their government computers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Josh and Anna, as you enter the sacred institution of marriage...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Two active accounts connected to Josh Duggar on the Web site Ashleymadison.com. Josh, the man -- ready for this? -- he
paid almost $1,000 to the cheating Web site.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Life is short. Have an affair.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. Live to San Antonio. A gorgeous young 25-year-old co-ed dies of natural causes. Her family, her loved ones gather for the
blond beauty`s memorial service. Just hours after that memorial service, Julie Mott`s body is set to be cremated, security breach. The 25-year-old
girl`s unembalmed body is stolen.
What pervert would steal the body of 25-year-old Julie Mott? Why? Why would they take her body?
Joining me live in San Antonio from WOAI, Michael Board. Michael, the whole family had just left the funeral home. This is a very well-
established funeral home. It`s never had a problem before. What happened?
MICHAEL BOARD, WOAI: Well, after the funeral, Nancy, the body and casket were moved out into a hallway at this funeral home, and some time
after the funeral and some time before they locked up that night at about 4:30, somebody pried open the casket, tore the body out of the casket, and
then slipped out the back door of the funeral home.
They don`t know who has this or what that person is doing...
GRACE: Whoa! Wait, wait, wait! Hold on! No, no, no. You`re seeing Julie Mott right here. This young co-ed died of natural causes after a
long illness.
She was a proficient equestrian. She loved horses. She loved riding. Her family had fought her illness for a long time. She succumbed.
They all gather to mourn and grieve 25-year-old Julie Mott. But the pews were still warm when her body is stolen from the funeral home. And
catch this. It`s no more than a misdemeanor. As the funeral home director points out, you get the same amount of jail time for stealing a Timex watch
as you do for taking this girl`s body. And what are they doing with her body right now?
Now, I take issue with something you said, Michael Board, WOAI. You said somebody snuck out with her body. How do you sneak anywhere with a
body?
BOARD: And that`s one thing, when I spoke to police today, they told me it might be one person or it might be several people. You know, it`s
not easy to carry a body, thinking about the dead weight. And I`m sorry I used that term in this case. But a body is heavy. It probably needs more
than one person to both lug it out of the casket and then through the hallways and out the back door of a funeral home.
20:05:06]GRACE: You`re seeing shots of 25-year-old Julie Mott. For those of you just joining us, there is a $2,500 reward. Who took her body
from the funeral home and what are they doing with it? Tipline 210-225- TIPS -- 8477.
Michael Board joining us there on the scene. Joining me right now, Sgt. Javier Salazar, joining us from the San Antonio PD. Sergeant, thank
you for being -- for joining us. When did you guys learn Julie Mott`s body had been stolen straight out of the furniture home?
SGT. JAVIER SALAZAR, SAN ANTONIO POLICE DEPARTMENT (via telephone): Well, Nancy, the theft itself happened -- is believed to have happened on
the 15th, just after the service that her family was at. We found out about the theft the next morning, on the 16th, when funeral home workers
opened up the casket to prepare her body for cremation and discovered that the casket was empty.
GRACE: Wait a minute! Wait a minute! Sergeant! Sergeant! Sergeant Javier Salazar with me from San Antonio PD. I just heard something. So
her memorial service was there at the funeral home, and they didn`t notice her body was gone until the next day? What, they wheeled her body in the
coffin into a hallway, and she sat in a hallway overnight?
SALAZAR: No, my understanding is that she sat in a room where the service was actually held. And it was an unattended room overnight. She
was in a casket that, my understanding, is a rental casket that is used for these types of services.
Later, when the cremation is -- the cremation process is to begin, they remove her from that rental casket and then -- and then take her into
the room where the cremation is to take place.
GRACE: OK, now, see, I`m learning new facts. You`re telling me she was going to be cremated there on the scene, correct?
SALAZAR: You know, my understanding is that there may be another facility where the cremation was going to take place, but at the very
least, they were going to remove her from that casket and then prepare her for the cremation process.
Now, I understand some of that preparation -- and forgive me, I don`t know the process that the workers go through -- some of that process was
going to take place there on the premise.
GRACE: OK, this is an extremely sensitive topic for families and loved ones that are grieving the death of their beloved, and now they`ve
got to hear all the details about cremation, burial. They never even got that far with this girl, Julie Mott. While her body is still there in the
funeral home, someone sneaks into the funeral home and takes her body. For what?
Unleash the lawyers, Randy Kessler, Atlanta, Kisha Hebbon out of New York. Randy Kessler, for what? I mean, nothing good, OK?
RANDY KESSLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No, of course not.
GRACE: You don`t steal a young girl`s body for any good reason, all right?
KESSLER: There are a lot of ill people out there. There`s needing. It`s a serious illness, people that want to have sex with corpses.
GRACE: Whoa. Back up. Back up. Back up.
KESSLER: OK.
GRACE: Necrophilia...
KESSLER: Right.
GRACE: Out of all my years prosecuting felonies, I never had a necrophiliac.
KESSLER: OK.
GRACE: But the reality...
KESSLER: Does that mean it doesn`t happen?
GRACE: Yes, it does happen. I luckily did not have to prosecute one. But the fact that you`re bringing up necrophilia -- what are the sentences
attached to necrophilia, sex with a dead person?
KESSLER: They`re not -- they`re a lot less serious than sex with a live person, rape. They`re a lot less serious. And maybe that`s part of
the problem.
But you know, maybe this was necrophilia. Maybe it was a practical joke. We don`t know anything about where this body is, and you`re not
going to prosecute anything until we know what happened, who did it, and where it is. Right now, there`s no even proof that there was a crime.
Maybe somebody took it and there`s a mistake, it was taken to the wrong place. Who knows? We don`t have nearly enough information.
GRACE: Wa-wait! Wa-wait! Wa-wait! Stop. Stop right there. Sergeant Javier Salazar, you just heard the defense attorney arguing maybe
there was a mistake. There was not a mistake, Sergeant.
SALAZAR: No...
GRACE: How do we know this was no mistake?
SALAZAR: At this point, we believe that it was criminal intent. Now, the nature of the crime we haven`t yet determined. So to say it was for
purposes of necrophilia, anything like that, would be speculation at this point.
GRACE: That`s true.
SALAZAR: So until we have a suspect in hand, that`s when we`ll be able to determine what the true motive was.
GRACE: Sergeant Salazar, you`re right. But obviously, to take this young woman`s body when her family has just walked out the front door, and
she apparently gets taken out the back door, it`s not for any good purpose. It`s for a nefarious purpose. You`re seeing the location...
SALAZAR: Absolutely.
GRACE: ... the Mission Park funeral home, where Julie Mott`s body was taken. Michael Board, what was the cause of her death?
BOARD: She died from cystic fibrosis. This is a very strong woman. She was supposed to not live past the age of 3, but she is a fighter, or
she was a fighter. She fought all the wage to age 25 before she passed away from cystic fibrosis.
20:10:07]GRACE: And Dr. Michelle Dupre, forensic pathologist, what is that? Why would cystic fibrosis make her pass away?
DR. MICHELLE DUPRE, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Well, Nancy, there`s a lot of complications from that. Basically, the body will just begin to shut
down. It`s a fibrotic (ph) disorder that gets progressively worse.
GRACE: Everyone, you`re seeing photos of Julie Mott, just 25 years old. She died of cystic fibrosis, natural causes. While her body is still
in the funeral home, it is stolen.
Sergeant Salazar, any leads whatsoever?
SALAZAR: Oh, the intelligence unit -- the (INAUDIBLE) intelligence unit is following leads. Some of those leads do include persons of
interest. And of course, persons of interest in case like this come and go, And so they`re -- they`re -- as they`re able to clear people from
suspicion, they are.
But the worst thing we want to do in law enforcement is get caught chasing a lead that`s leading us nowhere. So as quickly as they`re able
to, they`re able to clear these folks and move on to the next few tips. And the intelligence unit has been working...
GRACE: Right.
SALAZAR: ... basically around the clock, trying to determine, you know, who we can start calling a suspect versus a person of interest.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As you can imagine, this is not an easy thing to talk about.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tim Mott is now having to deal with the fact that his daughter, who died at just 25 years old, has now once again been
taken away from him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We just want our daughter`s remains returned so that we can have some closure to our grief.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
20:15:44]UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Outraged that someone stole a body from his funeral home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We wouldn`t rule out anyone at this point.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Twenty-five-year-old Julie Mott died from complications with cystic fibrosis. Investigators believe her remains were
stolen.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And we`re told that there are no surveillance cameras set up here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a family business of five generations. And I just am not believing -- excuse me. I`m just not believing that this
is happening. I just can`t believe that it`s a class A misdemeanor. The truth of the matter is, is that a Timex watch is more important than human
remains.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That`s the funeral home director there in San Antonio, Texas. Tonight, family and friends in grief. First, they deal with the death of
this 25-year-old girl, a co-ed, who died of natural causes. But now, her body snatched by some perv from the funeral home?
Is it true, Michael Board, WOAI, that there are no surveillance cameras even on the outside of the funeral home?
BOARD: That`s correct. There are no surveillance cameras in this place. But we know that there was no forced entry into the funeral home.
So we know that nobody broke into the funeral home.
That`s why I`ve been told police are directly looking at the people who were at that funeral. I`m sure they`re going through Julie Mott`s
phone, trying to figure out who was texting her. Maybe there was, you know, some obsessed person who just couldn`t get over the fact of not
having to see her again. That`s who police are probably looking at in this case.
GRACE: Well, another issue -- to Sergeant Javier Salazar, joining us from San Antonio PD. I know that there`s no forced entry, but if there had
been cameras on the outside, then we would obviously see who took her body out. I don`t know how they managed to do it. Is there a side exit? I
mean, how could they have gotten out with someone`s body, Sergeant?
SALAZAR: Well, it`s a big building, and I know that there are several ways in and out. And so you`re correct, there hasn`t been much by way of
surveillance video to go off of. I can`t go into all of evidence that we`re looking at. We are looking at various pieces of evidence. But so
for me...
GRACE: Well...
SALAZAR: ... even trying to speculate at this point the entry and exit points, I wouldn`t be able to at this point.
GRACE: Well, I can tell you this much. There`s -- I doubt pretty seriously -- let`s see the front of the funeral home -- that they wheeled
her out of the front of the funeral home, so there`s got to be a side or a back exit.
Also, I`ve been carefully reading over the supplemental police report, and it says that someone arrived at the location, had been invited to the
service. The last one to leave had been obsessed with the victim, calling and texting.
OK, unleash the lawyers, Randy Kessler, Kisha Hebbon. Also with me, Nicole Partin, funeral home director and embalmer. Nicole, if someone`s
going to be cremated, as in the case of Julie Mott, I doubt they`re going to embalm the body before cremation. That just makes sense to me, but is
that correct?
NICOLE PARTIN, FUNERAL HOME DIRECTOR AND EMBALMER (via telephone): If there was no public viewing of her, then she would not have been embalmed.
So if there was a closed casket service, then she was not embalmed. She would have been left inside the chapel or in a holding room in a locked
casket. And that`s what we`re hearing, that this casket was locked, but then someone forced that open, pried open...
GRACE: Oh, my stars! What do you mean the casket was locked? I didn`t know caskets were locked, Nicole.
PARTIN: They do. The caskets lock, and I`m certain that hers would have been. And so they had to use some kind of tool to pop open the casket
and stare her body.
GRACE: OK, hold on! Sergeant Javier Salazar, this is a whole `nother wrinkle. Somebody had to want her body so much that they brought with them
a tool to pry open -- a crowbar of sorts to pry open and break the lock on the casket. How can nobody hear or see this going on, Sergeant?
SALAZAR: Well, and that`s all part of the investigation, Nancy. And let me just clarify. My understanding is that this young lady was
embalmed, and she was -- there was a public viewing for her family. And so the embalming was part of that process.
20:20:04]Now, as far any tools used to gain entry to the casket, that`s one of the things that`s under investigation at this point, as well.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Twenty-five-year-old Julie Mott died from complications with cystic fibrosis. Her remains were stolen.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Outraged that someone stole a body from his funeral home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a family business of five generations.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stolen after her services and before the funeral home closed up for the night.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Who would take the body of this young co-ed? She dies of natural causes, and as her family is filing out of the memorial service,
essentially, someone hijacks her body, apparently coming into the funeral home with some sort of tool or device to pry open and break the lock on her
casket and take her body. And for what? Nothing good.
Randy Kessler, Kisha Hebbon and Nicole Partin joining me, in addition to Michael Board. OK, I`m looking at the police supplemental report right
here. And here they`re already discussing, in the initial stages, someone who was obsessed with this girl, texting and calling.
20:25:08]OK, Kisha Hebbon, Randy Kessler. First to you, Kisha Hebbon. For someone to go to this great length of planning to steal her body, don`t
start with insanity, OK? Someone is so obsessed with her, texting, calling, they very possibly stole her body. To do what?
KISHA HEBBON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, we don`t even know if that`s the person that did this to her. My problem is, why aren`t there
cameras at a funeral home?
GRACE: Don`t blame the funeral home, OK? Focus off the victim and focus back on the perp, OK? Let`s keep this in the middle of the road,
Kisha.
HEBBON: But there were no signs of forced entry, so my thinking...
GRACE: So?
HEBBON: ... is how can you accuse...
GRACE: Why are you saying that?
HEBBON: ... this person just because he stalked her. There has to be -- I think it`s an inside job.
GRACE: Is something wrong with my hearing? Because I keep hearing, There was no forced entry. Who cares?
HEBBON: It`s an inside job.
GRACE: There`s a body missing! And oh, you think somebody in the funeral home took the body?
HEBBON: Absolutely.
GRACE: Let`s follow that through to its natural course of disaster. Why? Why would they want the body? The body is already in their domain.
HEBBON: Well, you know what, Nancy? That`s...
GRACE: No, I don`t. What?
HEBBON: ... such a corrupt business -- the funeral business, unfortunately, is a very corrupt business. We don`t know if they made a
mistake with the body, if they`re trying to cover up something. I just don`t believe that the police -- and that`s why they didn`t charge anyone
at this point -- can charge anyone without any proof (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: OK, let me just go on the record, Michael Board, all right? There is absolutely no indications whatsoever Mission Parks Funeral Chapel
North had anything to do with the disappearance of this body, the theft of this body. They are in no way implicated.
This is an intervening criminal act, all right? So Kisha Hebbon is pulling straws to try to come up with some type of an explanation, but no
one within the funeral home so far has been pinpointed. What I`m seeing is this, Michael Board, in the police report, is that they are looking at
someone that had been texting her and calling her nonstop?
BOARD: That`s correct. That`s one angle that they`re looking at this. And when you talk about no forced entry, let`s be very clear on
this, Nancy. There is no forced entry to the building, but there was definitely forced entry to get into that coffin.
GRACE: Joining me, Dr. Tiffany Sanders, psychologist out of Chicago. The specter of necrophilia has reared its ugly head, and that is sex with a
dead body, OK? And the thought that this family is having to deal with mourning her loss and now this. Weigh in, Doctor.
TIFFANY SANDERS, PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes, Nancy, it`s disgusting to even consider that someone would want to have sex with a body. And I`m hoping
that`s not the case. But there are individuals who are not of sound mind, who could have looked at this beautiful young lady, had some level of
interest with her, and knew that this funeral home did not have security and infiltrated that location and took her body for sadistic purposes.
And it is traumatizing to the parents to think that that may have been happened to their daughter.
GRACE: Horrible. Horrible! Horrible, after all they`ve been through! And Nicole Partin, funeral home director joining me. Nicole,
it`s not like a human body, as we would know it. What does the embalming process involve?
PARTIN: The embalming process is a temporary means of preservation for the body. That means that the individual who took her from the casket
were dealing with a -- - pardon me for saying this -- but a very stiff corpse, very difficult to carry because this embalming process has now
changed the texture, has changed the solidity of the body.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (SINGING): I`m ready for something new, something for myself, something that I`ve got to do. I can`t wait to decide, there`s
nothing that I haven`t tried, except Ashley Madison, uh-huh, Ashley Madison.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shh.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ashley Madison.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Life is short, have an affair.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Well, they got a whole lot more than a potential affair. That`s an AshleyMadison.com website ad from Youtube. "19 Kids and
Counting" star Josh Duggar, now with four children of his own, reveals he`s addicted to porn, the Ashley Madison wife-swapping website, and is leading
a total double life. Breaking right now, police now investigating multiple suicides in the wake of the ashleymadison.com hack. This as a $500 million
class action lawsuit filed on behalf of the Ashley Madison cheaters now exposed. And to top all that off, the hackers now blackmailing Ashley
Madison cheaters. Divorces set to be filed based on the hacking, and, listen, Department of Justice and Homeland Security may have been breached,
compromised, because wannabe cheaters logon to Ashley Madison on their government computers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here, can you make it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He worked championing marriage, while paying the Ashley Madison website to find a secret lover.
The Duggar`s first account, called Josh The Man--
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Second account included an initial fee of $250. And an affair guarantee. Bubble baths, sex toys, oral sex, and fantasies.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: First to Ellie Jones, staff writer with Gawker.com. Also special guest joining us, Dr. Ruth Westheimer, also known as Dr. Ruth, sex
therapist, famed sex therapist. Ellie Jones with Gawker, Ellie, many of us first learned about the ashleymadison.com hack through Gawker. What do you
make of the fact that now police are investigating suicides in the wake of the hack? How many people were hacked, Allie?
ALLIE JONES, GAWKER: So there`s over 30 million users of Ashley Madison, and all that data related to those users have been released in the
hack. So it`s a huge data breach.
GRACE: Wow. And also, blackmailers, trying to use the information, for instance, this is the way I understand it, roughly, Allie Jones from
Gawker.com, that the hackers had the names of people using Ashleymadison.com to cheat on their spouses, so now the hackers have this
information and they`re trying to blackmail the cheaters?
JONES: Right. Well, it`s not exactly clear who is actually doing the blackmailing. The Toronto PD did a press conference this morning, and they
did say that they have confirmed cases of criminals, maybe hackers, maybe someone else e-mailing people whose data was released in this hack, and
saying if you don`t pay us this money, we`re going to release this to your family.
GRACE: Whoa. And how does it work? Bill Levitan, telecommunications expert. So apparently Homeland Security employees and Department of
Justice employees went on to ashleymadison.com, went on their government, their U.S. government computers. How could the hacker get into Homeland
Security information by that?
LEVITAN: Well, Nancy, one of my biggest concerns is people use the same user name and password constantly. The fact that we have the
passwords and user names of people in Homeland Security --
GRACE: Oh, no.
LEVITAN: It gives hackers an opportunity to get back into the government computers. It`s a big concern, Nancy.
GRACE: It`s a major concern. We also learned that one of the prosecutors in the tot mom trial of Casey Anthony, who went on trial for
the murder, the death of her little girl, Caylee, had been on ashleymadison.com.
Okay, that leads me to Dr. Ruth, the sex therapist. Dr. Ruth, it`s great to have you on with us. If you go on to an Ashleymadison-type
website, is that cheating? I mean, if you never follow through and actually meet up with the person or have phone sex or whatever, is that
cheating?
DR. RUTH WESTHEIMER, SEX THERAPIST: Nancy, I want to tell you something.
GRACE: Okay.
WESTHEIMER: I am so sad about this topic. How stupid this great country of ours, how stupid can people be? I`m not saying that no cheating
ever occurs, but how stupid can people be to use the Internet to give their names, to make -- to just be so incensed. I`m really very, very sad.
Because I like people to have good sex, as you know. I`m not saying that somebody doesn`t have an affair, maybe at a convention. I say if they have
a good relationship, keep your mouth shut. But I tell you something else. What worries me, we are going to see more sexually transmitted diseases,
not only divorces, and I`m very, very sad. Because I believe --
GRACE: Wait, wait, Dr. Ruth, I`ve got to ask you a question. I`ve got to follow up on something you just said. You know, when you do
something you feel guilty about -- and this is not a confession of any sort, okay? But what I`m saying is, when you feel guilty about something
that you`ve done, so many people want to confess. You know what, it makes them feel better, but it doesn`t make, for instance, your spouse feel any
better.
WESTHEIMER: I tell them, if something has happened, but if basically the relationship is a good one, keep your mouth shut. Don`t confess. You
might confess in church, you might confess to a religious leader or to a therapist, but keep your mouth shut. But this is something so --
GRACE: And stop! Also stop the running around. Don`t just keep your mouth shut.
WESTHEIMER: Right.
GRACE: Stop the running around and live with guilt.
[20:40:00]
WESTHEIMER: Live with that guilt and keep your mouth shut, but don`t do it again! And certainly, don`t do it on the Internet! So all of these
people right now who are going to be in trouble, because people are going to ask for money and all kinds of things.
GRACE: Oh, it`s horrible. And you know, another thing that I heard, Chloe Melas, senior reporter, hollywoodlife.com, according to "People"
magazine, in the Josh Duggar incident, Josh Duggar gets busted as part of this Ashley Madison hack, and then he gives a statement claiming he`s been
addicted to porn. He`s been unfaithful. He hasn`t just been on the website, he`s actually cheated. Now, unconfirmed sources are saying that
his wife feels like it`s all her fault. You`re seeing video of "19 Kids and Counting" from TLC. I imagine that`s pretty common. What do you know
about that, Chloe Melas? Where the wife is feeling like it`s her fault. That Duggar cheated.
MELAS: Nancy, it`s very common that the women feel like, what did I do wrong? What could I have done better? And actually, we`re hearing at
hollywoodlife.com that Ana is actually standing by Josh and isn`t going to leave him. In fact--
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, wait a minute, little girl. Hold on, little girl. Didn`t you ever see the women? Just because your husband has one affair,
one time somebody screws up, sure, you`re tempted to leave. And I`m not saying that I wouldn`t leave. But, you know, you don`t throw the baby out
with the bathwater, for Pete`s sake. One affair.
Now, with Duggar, however, that`s a curious thing, because he`s claiming he`s addicted to porn, he`s cheated, he has all of these sex
issues. So, maybe he should be thrown out. But just hold on, Chloe Melas. Dr. Ruth, we need help, all right? Dr. Ruth, why do women -- I mean, his
wife is absolutely gorgeous. She`s beautiful, she`s smart, she`s everything! Why does he cheat on her, and why does the woman feel like it`s
her fault the man cheated?
WESTHEIMER: First of all, in today`s world, Nancy, everybody knows that women are working, there are as many women who are having extramarital
--
GRACE: I don`t believe that.
WESTHEIMER: Absolutely.
GRACE: I don`t believe it! I just can`t believe that! Where does the woman have time, Dr. Ruth? You`ve got to work, you`ve got to cook dinner,
you`ve got to lay out the clothes for the children. Where are you going to work in an affair in all of that?
WESTHEIMER: You can -- look, all of these affairs, which I don`t condone, have to have a woman that has the sex with them. So these women
are not just prostitutes. And I want to tell you something. That gives me a moment to say, in this great country of ours, we really should legalize
prostitution.
GRACE: Oh, no, no, no. Dr. Ruth, you just made my head blow up, okay? My head is blowing up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:47:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, it`s me. I`m not going to be home for dinner. Sorry. I got to work late. I really got to get this report done.
Don`t wait up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Office romance too risky? You should have used ashleymadison.com.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Well, they all got a lot more than a wannabe romance. That was from ashleymadison.com on Youtube. But the whole thing cracked wide
open. Millions of cheaters or cheater wannabes on Ashleymadison.com, now outed after a serious hack, including believed to be members of the DOJ,
Department of Justice, Homeland Security, and of course, from "19 Kids and Counting," Josh Duggar. Busted!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Josh and Ana, as you enter this sacred institution of marriage --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Two active accounts connected to Josh Duggar on the website Ashleymadison.com. Josh the Man, Ready for this D.C., paid
almost $1,000 to the cheating website.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Life is short. Have an affair.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Mm-hmm. Have more than an affair. I`m talking about potential links to suicides, a $500 million class action lawsuit, divorces
in the way. You`re seeing video from "19 Kids and Counting" from TLC. Allie Jones joining us from Gawker.com, who first exposed the hack. Allie,
thanks for being with us.
Now police state they are actually investigating several suicides, including one by a long-standing police officer, that may be linked to the
Ashley Madison hack. I guess the theory being that his wife or family found out that he had logged onto the website, and he just couldn`t take
it. What do you make of it?
JONES: Well, I think the details are sketchy right now, in terms of whether these suicide cases are actually linked to the hack. But the
Toronto PD is investigating and saying, I mean, if they are linked, it`s because these people feel like their information has been exposed, and they
have to face their friends and family.
GRACE: And the other thing, to Dr. Ruth Westheimer, sex therapist, joining us out of New York. The famed Dr. Ruth. Dr. Ruth, it`s not just,
you know, an affair. How do you tell your children later in life, yes, I completely tore apart our whole family.
[20:50:00]
I completely caused the divorce because I cheated, because I got, what, a piece of tail at the Ritz-Carlton for 25 minutes. Really? You`re going to
throw away your whole family for what?
WESTHEIMER: Nancy, terrible, but you know what, I need you to repeat that it`s also women who do cheat.
GRACE: Okay, all right. You win. Women do it, too. I accept that. I`m not discriminating.
WESTHEIMER: Right. And I am saying make sure, Nancy, all of your listeners --
GRACE: I`m not cheating. It`s not worth it. For what?
WESTHEIMER: Make sure all your listeners know, that they have to make sure, men and women, to make sex more interesting, not boring, not to make
it --
GRACE: How can it be interesting when your whole family, the world -- I mean, look at this. Clark Goldband, for Pete`s sake, the tot mom
prosecutor, he is a well-known figure in the legal community, well respected, and now this -- this doesn`t mean he had sex with someone. It
means he went on the website. Now everybody says Jeff Ashton, they`re not going to think about what a great job he did, all the years he`s been a
prosecutor, the self-sacrifice. It`s the guy that went on Ashley Madison, for Pete`s sake. What about this $500 million lawsuit, Clark?
GOLDBAND: There`s a class action lawsuit right now in Canada. I just want to point out, Nancy, with the Jeff Ashton case, he said he signed up
for it, browsed, that was the end of it. It was two years ago. It was a mistake. And he hopes his service outweighs this dumb mistake.
GRACE: I certainly hope so, too.
GOLDBAND: Nancy, on to this class action lawsuit, here is what we know, there are lawyers who are circulating across North America right now
trying to find people who have been harmed by their information being exposed to the public. You touched on it a few minutes ago. People who
have ever signed up for Ashley Madison are receiving text messages, e-mails asking for money, asking strange, personal questions.
GRACE: Asking for money, that`s called extortion, Clark. Bribing. Hey, you were on Ashley Madison, I have your info. I`m surprised they
don`t have their credit cards, too. So give me money and I won`t tell your wife is the gist of it. Ben Levitan, I want to follow up on what Clark
Goldband just said, Ben, how far back does the hack go? If you logged on three years ago and you never used it again, ten years ago, five years ago,
how far back does the hack go?
LEVITAN: Nancy, there`s no reason to believe they erased any of this information. There`s 4 million women on here and about 33 million men, to
answer Dr. Ruth`s question. So it`s heavily men whose information is out there, and it`s stored on that computer that was hacked.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:57:20]
GRACE: Multiple suicides now being investigated in the wake of the Ashleymadison.com hack, where wannabe cheaters were outed. Dr. Ruth
Westheimer, a sex therapist, joining us, here is my question. All right, men go online, and women, that`s a bone I`m throwing to you, but we now
learn that this website, Ashleymadison.com, and others like it, don`t they understand in this day and age, why do men keep falling for it? Those
women aren`t even real.
WESTHEIMER: Some people are stupid. When that part of the male anatomy is aroused, when it has an erection, their brain flies out of their
head. Some people are just plain stupid, not realizing that you can lie on the Internet. That you can say you are six feet tall and all kinds of
things. And we -- you -- bravo to you for exposing that and taking the time on CNN to talk about that.
GRACE: Think about it, Dr. Ruth, somebody like Josh Duggar, with so much to lose -- well, and every man with a family or woman, so much to lose
gets outed on this website, and now potentially losing everything for what? A fake female profile?
WESTHEIMER: Nancy, all I can say is stupid.
GRACE: Stupid. Well put.
WESTHEIMER: Stupid. And if I were a dictator in this great country of ours, I would shut off all of these sites. It`s not even enough to
educate people.
GRACE: You probably would be (inaudible) pretty quickly, Dr. Ruth. You`re incredible.
Everyone, let`s remember American hero, Louisiana State Trooper Steven Vincent, 43, killed in the line of duty. Served state police 13 years,
loses his life helping a stranded driver. Brothers Terrell and Keith. Also police officers. Widow Kathy, son Ethan. Steven Vincent, American
hero.
And tonight a good night from friends Eve (ph) and Naomi, aren`t they beautiful? And happy birthday to our friend in the justice system, Jo
Horn. Happy birthday, Jo. Thanks to our guests, but our biggest thank you is to you for being with us and inviting us into your homes. Nancy Grace
signing off. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
