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Nancy Grace
Teresa Sievers Murder Arrest; Red Flags From TV Shooter; Caitlyn Jenner to Walk Free; Verdict Watch on Elite Prep School Rape Trial. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired August 27, 2015 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[20:00:00] NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: Breaking news tonight, live to Virginia. A disgruntled former TV reporter stalks his victims to an early morning TV
shoot, only to video himself gun down a female anchor and her cameraman live on air as morning viewers watched. Dead, 24-year-old Alison Parker
and 27-year-old Adam Ward.
Bombshell tonight. Stunning details emerging about the so-called TV shooter, hard facts that prove the double murder could have been stopped.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Today, I lost the love of my life. She was gunned down in cold blood, along with her photographer, Adam Ward.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Adam, come out in front of the camera.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Executed by a former employee while they were live on air.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Taken by a crazy person with a gun.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And live, Concord, New Hampshire. We are in a verdict watch. A young teen girl victim breaks down on the stand describing an elite prep
school rape, part of a virginity-taking contest where male students keep scores on the walls behind the washers and dryers of their victims.
Defendant on the stand still insisting it never happened. After stunning closing arguments, will this teen prep student head to jail or to Harvard?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was aroused. I had an erection. And we reached the point where I was on top of her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then she froze in fear as he carried out his plan.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And breaking right now, reports Caitlyn Jenner, AKA Olympic winner Bruce Jenner, seen here in E!`s "I Am Cait," will not be charged? Forget a
sweetheart deal, Jenner not even to be charged for vehicular manslaughter?
Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight, to Virginia. A disgruntled former TV reporter stalks his victims to an early morning TV shoot, only to video himself gun down a
TV anchor and her cameraman live on air as morning viewers watch, leaving dead 24-year-old Alison Parker and 27-year-old Adam Ward. Stunning new
details emerging about the so-called TV shooter, hard facts that prove the double murder could have been stopped.
But first, breaking news right now. To Bonita Springs, Florida, new details emerging in the mystery surrounding the murder of a gorgeous young
doctor, mother of two little girls, Teresa Sievers, found murdered in her Florida home while Sievers`s husband and two little daughters are out of
town.
As we go to air, has the case been solved? An arrest warrant has just been issued in the brutal murder of doctor and mother Teresa Sievers.
Michael Christian, an arrest has been made of the guy, Jimmy Rodgers (ph). Who is he?
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Nancy, he is a man who lives in Missouri. He was arrested. He has been on probation for
possessing a handgun and was not supposed to leave the state of Missouri. But apparently, Florida authorities believe that he did, indeed, leave that
state, go to Florida and murder Dr. Sievers.
GRACE: Also with us, Matt Zarrell, on the story. Matt, it`s almost too much to take in. This guy, this Jimmy Rodgers, with an arrest record, had
violated federal probation, he`s been caught somewhere in Missouri.
What more do we know, Matt?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Well, to answer a question that everyone has right now, which is how does a man from Missouri
end up arrested for a murder in Florida, well, according to reports, Rodgers was in Ft. Myers, Florida, on June 28th at a Walmart. The reason
that`s significant is Teresa Sievers was found dead in her home the following day, June 29th.
GRACE: You`re right. For those of you just joining us, you`re seeing TeresaSievers.com. There is a major break right now in the brutal murder
of a mother of two little girls, a beloved doctor in Bonita Springs, Florida. An arrest has just gone down in the murder of Dr. Teresa Sievers.
She was found in her home brutally murdered. We later learned through our sources the murder weapon was a hammer.
The neighbors awoke to screaming in the early morning hours, around 5:00 AM. When she did not report to work around 9:00 AM at her own medical
practice, a security watch, safety watch was done by police, and they find her body, her husband, pictured here, and their two little girls away on
vacation at the time she was murdered.
[20:05:10]Matt Zarrell and Michael Christian joining me. Matt, this guy, Jimmy Rodgers, is being held on a federal warrant in Missouri. He is
absolutely placed near the Bonita Springs area, in Walmart surveillance.
My question is, how did they connect up his picture in Walmart to the killer? Possibly through AFIS (ph), through fingerprint identification?
We know he`s a federal inmate. So certainly, there`s a fingerprint, right? Do they find a print at the scene?
ZARRELL: We have not heard anything about a print. The one thing we can talk about here, Nancy, is that we spent a lot of time focusing on the
cameras around the home. So one thing we can look at here is whether they`ve matched the cameras from the Walmart surveillance to the cameras
that were at the home. Maybe he was spotted on surveillance at the home.
GRACE: Michael Christian, this guy, Jimmy Rodgers, who has a rap sheet, has been caught on a federal warrant in Missouri, is from Pitosi (ph),
Missouri. It`s about 70 miles south of St. Louis. Right now, he`s in the Francois County jail in Farmington. Is he going to be extradited to Bonita
Springs?
For those of you just joining us, a major break in the brutal murder of Dr. Teresa Sievers. An arrest has just gone down.
Is he going to be extradited?
CHRISTIAN: You can certainly bet, Nancy, that Florida authorities will be attempting to do that. And even though authorities have not said much
about what led them to this guy, the NBC station in Ft. Myers, Florida, is reporting that he has some, quote, "connection to the Sievers family,"
unquote.
GRACE: OK. Right now, everybody, we`re taking you away from Bonita Springs, and the very latest in the brutal so-called TV shooting. Could
the whole thing have been stopped? Take a look at these two victims.
What do we know tonight? Steve Helling, writer with "People" magazine with us, and friend of Alison Parker, SlantNews contributor Spencer Dukoff.
Steve Helling, there was an incredible amount of detail that this guy, the shooter, was a ticking timebomb. What do we know?
STEVE HELLING, "PEOPLE" MAGAZINE: Well, he actually said that he was. You know, he -- he faxed this 23-page document that basically said that he was
ready to explode. And nobody seemed to know that this was going to happen. It was a surprise to a lot of people. But he was an angry man who had a
lot of problems at work, had a lot of problems in his personal life, and finally, it just boiled over in a tragic way.
GRACE: To Michael Christian, also on this story. What can you tell me about this search warrant we`ve just obtained and about him operating porn
sites?
HELLING: Yes, that has just been reported, Nancy, that he operated porn sites. Now, we know that he was a gay man. He had said that before. He
felt that some of the discrimination against him was as a gay man. And apparently, he was operating gay porn sites, according to (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: Well, Michael, I don`t know the fact that he is a gay man has anything to do with the double murder. What I`m wondering about are all of
these clues, really red flags of warning. I mean, when he left this job, when he was fired, isn`t it true, Steve Helling, he said, This is going to
end up in the headlines. And he got a crucifix and handed it to a former employee, said, You`re going to need this, right? Didn`t that happen?
HELLING: That is exactly what happened, Nancy. And you know, he had a bad history of this type of thing happening when he`d get fired. You know, he
actually was an escort for a couple years after he`d been fired. He -- he -- he constantly was going off the rails in one way or another.
GRACE: OK, take a look at this incident of alleged road rage that we found.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you`re still (EXPLETIVE DELETED)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Are you finished?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`ve been finished. You followed me here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, and (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thanks. Talk to the mirror.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Excuse me?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You call a guy out for driving like (EXPLETIVE DELETED) he`s going to lose his mind.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That`s video posted to YouTube of a parking lot confrontation involving Bryce, true name Vester Lee Flanagan, now known as the TV
shooter.
OK, Michael Christian, we`ve gotten our hands on the suicide note. It`s 23 pages long. What have we learned, Michael?
CHRISTIAN: Nancy, this was faxed to ABC News approximately two hours after the shooting. And it`s basically a list of grievances, of things that he`s
feeling at the moment. And basically, he`s a very angry man. He says, "I`ve been a human powder keg for a while, just waiting to go boom at any
moment." Well, apparently, he went boom yesterday morning.
[20:10:04]GRACE: With me is a special guest, friend of Alison Parker, Spencer Dukoff, SlantNews contributor. Spencer, thank you for being with
us. The more we dig into this, the more we see red bells of alarm. When this guy was fired, he basically issued a threat right then, This is going
to land in the headlines, handing a crucifix to a co-worker, saying, You`re going to need this?
SPENCER DUKOFF, FRIEND OF VICTIM ALISON PARKER: Yes, it`s really tragic. And you know, with more and more details coming out, what I`m just trying
to focus on right now is preserving the memory of my friend and just trying to serve in any way I can to preserve that memory and celebrate her life,
so...
GRACE: And what is that memory?
DUKOFF: I first met Alison when I went to James Madison University. It was my freshman year, and I met her working on a video project. I was
introduced by a mutual friend. And I just remember her being warm and kind and really driven. She was someone that would stop you, you know, on the
quad just to figure out how your day was, not just saying, How are you, or just walking by.
She cared about her community. She cared about her friends. And I only knew her for a short time, but I`m really happy that I had the chance to
get to know her.
GRACE: Well, Spencer, the more I`m hearing about her, the more disturbing it is that such a beautiful person on the inside and the outside would have
been killed in this manner.
Michael Christian and Steve Helling -- Steve, when I look at this suicide note, as we`re being told to call it, a 23-page document -- can we please
see some of that, Liz? I want the viewers to see what we know.
He`s blaming the church shooting, hollow point victims, with the victims` - - hollow point bullets with the victims` initials on them. And everyone was warned, Steve Helling, at the time he was fired.
HELLING: Yes, everybody was warned. Everybody knew he was a powderkeg. But nobody knew what he was going to do. And you can`t watch somebody
24/7. So it was just a matter of time. He had two years after being fired to plan what he was going to do, to decide when was the right time.
And it`s obvious, looking at all this stuff that we see now, that he planned this for a while. He knew what he was going to do, and he went in
with the idea to do it.
GRACE: Right.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:16:34]GRACE: Breaking now, reports Caitlyn Jenner, AKA Olympic winner Bruce Jenner, will not be charged? Forget a sweetheart deal, Jenner will
not even be charged for vehicular manslaughter?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Pictures of the four-car chain reaction crash on PCH in Malibu show the front end of the white Lexus smashed in.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One person is dead, and seven are hospitalized. Police say Olympic athlete and TV star Jenner was driving the third car.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: With us right now, Candace Trunzo, senior news editor, Dailymail.com.
You are seeing video, or just did see video of the deadly crash from TMZ. Let`s take a look at that. Candace Trunzo, I don`t know if this deserves
jail time. I don`t know what it deserves. I don`t know if it was an accident. I don`t know if Caitlyn Jenner was texting at the time. I don`t
know what happened.
But I know that there is a victim, Kim Howe (ph), the female driver of her Lexus, killed, Jessica Steindorff injured, three children, another adult
hospitalized. How is there no charges?
CANDACE TRUNZO, DAILYMAIL.COM (via telephone): Well, we don`t know that yet, Nancy. Right now, the DA is looking at a 161-page report. They`re
poring over this report to see exactly what they`re going to do.
And you know, while he may not face felony manslaughter because they believe he was trying to avoid the crash, he wasn`t speeding, he wasn`t
texting, and he wasn`t on any drugs or alcohol -- however, he could definitely face misdemeanor vehicular manslaughter, which would be, of
course, much lesser jail time, much less serious. He could still be charged, Nancy.
GRACE: Well, you`re seeing Caitlyn Jenner in the E! docu-series, "I Am Cait," who took the world by storm, transitioning from Olympian decathlon
winner to Caitlyn Jenner, with her own reality series.
OK, Justin Freiman, reports there will be no charges whatsoever. I mean, we`ve got a dead body. What about following too closely, for Pete`s sake?
JUSTIN FREIMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Well, Nancy, what detectives had said was that Jenner was complying with the speed limit, but
moving too fast for the road conditions that day. It could set it up maybe for a misdemeanor, which we`d probably get maybe a year max on.
GRACE: OK, you`re seeing video of the deadly crash from TMZ. For you just joining us, we`re talking about reports that Caitlyn Jenner, also known as
Bruce Jenner before he transitioned into Caitlyn, is going to walk free with no charges at all, no misdemeanor, no nothing. I don`t quite
understand the legal reasoning behind that.
C.W. Jensen, retired police captain, what do you make of what happened? Whether he`s following too closely, texting, not texting, I don`t know.
But when you crash into someone in front of you, and that person veers out into oncoming traffic -- let`s see that reproduction you guys created. You
veer into oncoming traffic and kill someone, they`re dead, how can that be no charges?
C.W.JENSEN, RETIRED POLICE CAPTAIN (via telephone): Well, there may not be criminal charges, like you`re talking manslaughter, things like that. It
may not rise to the level of negligence. But there may be a citation for careless driving. Something like that.
[20:20:13]GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Let`s follow up on what C.W. Jensen is saying -- Alex Sanchez, Anne Bremner, Troy Slaten.
Anne, you`ve handled a ton of cases like this. Explain how there`s no charge at all, when clearly, he had to be, she had to be following too
closely...
ANNE BREMNER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right.
GRACE: ... and ram into the back of someone. That someone went out into traffic and into oncoming traffic and died.
BREMNER: Well, the common denominator in all of those charges, whether it`s a felony, a misdemeanor or an infraction, would be proximate cause
without (ph) an intervening cause. And there`s no causation directly here for Bruce Jenner.
GRACE: Whoa! Whoa-whoa! Slow it down.
BREMNER: Right.
GRACE: Slow it down, little lady. What did you say?
BREMNER: Proximate cause, Nancy. You know proximate cause really well.
GRACE: Yes.
BREMNER: Did Bruce Jenner cause this accident? (INAUDIBLE) could be a projectile. He`s not the direct cause of the accident. So you -- no
matter what you charge, felony or misdemeanor, infraction, you need to show that she or he, she now, caused that accident.
GRACE: She.
BREMNER: She. Thank you. Caitlyn. She`s Cait. But that`s what`s wrong with pressing any kind of charge in this case.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:25:13]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jenner`s car, when it struck the Lexus, the Lexus went into oncoming traffic, which struck the southbound H2 Hummer,
and the driver of the white Lexus was pronounced dead at the scene.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Joining me right now -- oh, by the way, you are seeing video of the deadly crash from TMZ. This apparently came from a bus that was passing.
Joining me right now is a well-known accident reconstructionist out of Naples, Captain -- Corporal Parker. Thank you so much for being with us,
sir. You have studied the case very well. What do you make of it? Let`s see the accident reconstruct.
Go ahead, Corporal.
CPL. DWAINE PARKER, ACCIDENT RECONSTRUCTIONIST (via telephone): Well, under the 161-page report, it was most notable that the investigation
showed that Jenner braked several seconds prior to the impact, which means that he saw the accident occurring, attempted to avoid hitting the lady.
But unfortunately, the (ph) pulling the trailer, he did not have enough space between his vehicle and the victim`s vehicle, and he ultimately hit
that car, causing it to crash head on into the Hummer.
So although he caused the crash, he cooperated with the investigation. He tried to brake. He didn`t do anything egregious to cause the crash. He
wasn`t under any influence of drugs or alcohol. And so although he broke the law in California for following too closely, I believe it`s going to be
hard for a jury to believe that he did anything so egregious...
GRACE: OK...
PARKER: ... that a misdemeanor charge of vehicular manslaughter...
GRACE: OK, it`s shocking off the top. You`re seeing Caitlyn Jenner in E! docu-series "I Am Cait." It sounds shocking that there`s not going to be a
charge because that -- those are the reports. Now, that could change, sources say there will be no charges whatsoever in the death of Kim Howe,
killed as a result of this crash.
But as we dig into it -- unleash the lawyers, Alex Sanchez, Anne Bremner, Troy Slaten. Also with me, Dr. Bethany Marshall.
You know, Bethany, everyone is thinking Caitlyn Jenner is getting some kind of kid glove celebrity treatment, but when you hear Corporal Dwaine Parker
explain it like that...
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Right.
GRACE: ... that Caitlyn Jenner, also known as Bruce Jenner, tried to brake -- isn`t that what you said, Parker, Corporal Parker?
PARKER: Yes, that`s correct. And also, the DA has not filed charges against an LA County sheriff`s deputy last year who was using his on-board
computer. He accidentally struck a bicyclist and killed that pedestrian, and the DA did not file charges with that person (INAUDIBLE) as well.
GRACE: OK.
PARKER: So there`s precedent set (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let me get back to Bruce Jenner. Bethany, everyone is thinking he`s getting celebrity treatment. But when you her Corporal
Dwaine Parker explain -- and he`s pored through over 100 pages of accident reconstruction. Caitlyn Jenner tried to brake. There`s no evidence
that...
MARSHALL: Right.
GRACE: ... she was texting, talking on the phone, and I bet they`ve looked at those records with a fine-toothed comb. And if she`s not negligent, it
is truly an accident!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:32:45] GRACE: Live Concord, New Hampshire, we are in a verdict watch. A young teen girl victim breaks down in tears on the stand, describing an
elite prep school rape. All part of a virginity taking contest where male students keep scores written on the walls behind the washers and dryers of
their dorm of the names of their victims. The defendant on the stand, and his own defense still insisting under oath nothing happened.
After stunning closing arguments, will the teen prep student head to jail or to Harvard?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She said no. And she said it three times. She held her bra when he tried to take it off. She held her underwear when he tried
to take those off. And she pulled his head up when he tried to perform oral sex on her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Jean Casarez, who`s been on the story from the beginning.
Everybody, we are in a verdict watch. The jury deliberating the fate of teen Owen Labrie.
Jean Casarez, CNN correspondent, what happened in closing arguments?
JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Nancy, both sides were so strong in their closing arguments. The defense really focusing in on the communications,
the e-mails, back and forth between the accuser and the defendant close in time to when this all happened. He calling her an angel, she responded
saying, you`re an angel yourself, but can you keep it secret what we just did, what just happened?
The prosecutor then in that final rebuttal argument before the jury started deliberating, saying that she may have said those things but she froze in
fear when he was so fast and so quick to penetrate her and to rape her that she didn`t realize what was happening.
GRACE: Tracy Caruso, co-host, "New Hampshire in the Morning," WZID, thank you for being with us.
Tracy, did it ever come out whether this girl who was a virgin before this incident had or did not have a hymen upon the rape kit inspection.
TRACY CARUSO, CO-HOST, WZID RADIO: Nancy, that did not come out during the testimony. There was never talk of hymen.
[20:35:04] GRACE: OK, and Justin Freiman, I thought both of the closing arguments were way over the top. But the defense basically put up a visual
of reasons the jury must acquit their client. What was the first one?
FREIMAN: That`s right, Nancy. The first one on the list was there was an adult eyewitness.
GRACE: OK. Let`s take a listen to the defense closing argument.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She would be able to have an explanation to at least her sister, said, yes, I had sex, but it wasn`t because I wanted it to
happen. It wasn`t because I was up there voluntarily, it wasn`t that I took my shirt off voluntarily, it wasn`t that I took my pants off
voluntarily, no, none of that. He just forced me to have sex and penetrated me with his finger, his tongue and his penis.
And I`m just a rape victim. She had to make the decision whether it would be her reputation that was going to go into the toilet or Owen`s. And she
took the easier choice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK. Let me understand, Jean Casarez, the defense is arguing this is all her attempt to save her reputation? Is that the defense?
CASAREZ: That is the defense because after this happened, however far it went, it spread rapidly. All around campus. She started telling people, I
think I had sex with the defendant. His friends knew that they had been together so came into his dorm high fiving him and saying, you did it. You
porked her. You got her. And he agreed and that spread rampantly.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Alex Sanchez, New York, Anne Bremner, high- profile Seattle lawyer, Troy Slaten, defense attorney out of L.A.
OK, first to you, Alex Sanchez, to save your reputation is one thing, but to call your mother at midnight and tell her, mom, something really bad
happened. To go to the hospital, to have a rape kit, a pelvic exam, and now go through this at trial? That seems like overkill, right, to save
your reputation?
ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you know, you have to look at a case in its entirety, and look at all the graphic testimony that had come out.
And I understand some of the testimony that she had shaved her private areas before she went to meet him so that he could possibly touch her in a
private way?
GRACE: OK. Let`s talk about that.
SANCHEZ: That`s unbelievable.
GRACE: I agree, Jean Casarez, that hurts. That hurts the state. I mean, really? Think about it, you`re sitting there, you`re trying to prosecute
this rape case, and then it turns out that the alleged rape victim shaved her whole pubic area before meeting the defendant?
CASAREZ: Yes, and not only that.
GRACE: Look, I didn`t even know girls that young had ever heard of shaving your pubic area.
CASAREZ: 15 years old, and --
GRACE: Why would she -- that`s bad for her.
CASAREZ: And there`s more. She told her roommate -- remember this is a boarding school. She told her roommate, I`m going to let him take his
finger and put it where he wants to, and orally, I`m going to do things to him. Prosecutor closing today, said, look, she can change her mind.
GRACE: OK. You know what, Jean? You`re right. She can change her mind. She absolutely can change her mind if she wants to. Is that what happened?
I`m telling you, with this jury, isn`t it correct, Justin, we got nine men and three women on the jury?
FREIMAN: That`s right, Nancy.
GRACE: OK. When they hear this girl shaved her pubic area before she went on a date, that`s going to go over like a led balloon. All right. That`s a
fly in the ointment. That`s the problem, and Jean, I didn`t hear that until today. I guess it came out in the testimony, but I never was aware
of that.
CASAREZ: It came out during the testimony, that`s right, because she took the stand, there was direct, there was cross-examination, and it is before
the jury.
GRACE: OK. Tracy Caruso with us, co-host, "New Hampshire in the Morning," WZID. Any more bombshells that came out in the closing statements?
CARUSO: It really became a case of credibility. Both the prosecution and defense, both had about -- it was about two hours of closing arguments
today, and it`s going to be a question of who`s more believable.
GRACE: Yes. OK. The defense kicked off with 10 reasons why the jury has to acquit, starting with there was an adult eyewitness, no. So I guess
that the teen girl and others don`t count.
To Jean Casarez, the reality is, Owen Labrie, the defendant who has told us about 100 times he`s planning to go to Divinity School at Harvard, told all
his friends when he gets back, I porked her, I slade her, I scored. All of that. How am I supposed to interpret that, Jean?
[20:40:04] CASAREZ: Well, because that`s the whole point of the Senior Salute. That is the point. If you are skeptical. That it`s not just a
kiss. It`s not a date. It`s actually doing that. And so he admitted on the stand that he lied. That he said what his friends wanted to hear.
GRACE: Look at the monitor. Look at the monitor. "Friend, how did it go from her saying no to bone?" In other words, her saying no to having
intercourse. His response, "I used every trick in the book."
Unleash -- go ahead.
CASAREZ: That no right there, when he first invited her via e-mail, she said no. So that no could mean originally she said, no, I`m not even going
to go out with you.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Alex Sanchez, Anne Bremner, Troy Slaten.
What about that, Anne Bremner? How do you explain away -- I mean, this guy is looking at 20 years behind bars. How do you explain him saying, how did
it go from no to bone, man? And he goes, I used every trick in the book. And then going back to his dorm room and deleting over 100 e-mail messages
where he talks about having sex with this girl.
BREMNER: Well, he`s bragging, and the fact of the matter is, his friends are talking to him, high-fiving him, boning her, porking her, whatever.
The fact is, you know, she said yes later. She said no, then she said yes. And you can change your mind, but you can`t keep going back and forth.
GRACE: Whoa, wait. She said no, then you said yes what?
BREMNER: She said no and then yes in terms of meeting up for the Senior Salute. He said they would hang out, not that they would have sex.
And come on, Nancy, like you just -- it`s a bombshell, like you always say. Bombshell tonight, that she shaved her private area, that she said
afterwards it`s our secret. And get this, he says in an e-mail, I hope when you lose your virginity, I hope it`s with the right guy, a great guy
because you`re a goddess. That`s what --
GRACE: Now, question, Tracy Caruso, the timing of that e-mail about when you`re going to lose your virginity, when was that e-mail sent? Before or
after he said, yes, I put a condom on halfway through, praise Jesus"?
CARUSO: It was after.
GRACE: Yes. When he was trying to cover his trail, Troy Slaten, he wrote her saying, hey, are you on the pill? I put on a condom halfway through,
and he said praise Jesus, but his sole defense is they never had sex and why send those e-mails, I put on a condom. Halfway through what, Troy?
TROY SLATEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: This is puffery. This is puffery. A young boy --
GRACE: Where -- I hope you don`t use that word on a jury. Puffery.
SLATEN: He wants to make everyone think that he has as much sex as he possibly could.
GRACE: Puffery?
SLATEN: That`s what young boys do.
GRACE: Puffery. Did you?
SLATEN: You know, young girls don`t want to seem like sluts.
GRACE: Did you?
SLATEN: They don`t want to seem easy.
GRACE: I don`t think all young boys try to slay girls, pork a girl, that`s just turned 15 years old using that phraseology.
SLATEN: That was the culture, that was the culture in the school.
GRACE: Really? Really?
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: No, they don`t, not all high school boys try to do that. They probably all think about it.
SLATEN: At this school, they were.
GRACE: I disagree. You know, Alex Sanchez, come on, take off your defense hat just one moment, really? Speak to me like a friend, which we are, like
a father, like a parent. I do not think that all high school boys take girls to an isolated area and then tell all their friends that they porked
them, and then delete all their -- I mean, really, let`s get real about this.
SANCHEZ: Nancy, you know, I haven`t been to high school in a long time, there was no e-mails back then. But when it comes to consent, Nancy, you
can say no before, you can say no during, you can`t no afterwards. And if you look at the e-mail communications between this girl and him, he was
calling her angel. There was all kinds of tender e-mails between the parties. That`s not consistent with somebody who says they were violently
raped. And that`s a matter that they jury is going to consider and determine guilt or innocence.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:48:04] OWEN LABRIE, DEFENDANT: I was aroused, I had an erection, and we reached the point where I was on top of her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then she froze in fear as he carried out his plan.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are in a verdict watch as this jury decides whether Owen Labrie will go to jail or to Harvard University as his plan to study divinity.
Now according to the prosecution, he intentionally, as part of a game, a scoring game at the school, St. Paul`s Prep, which is an elite prep school,
cost nearly $60,000 per kid to go there, it`s a boarding school. Senior Salute was a game where upper classmen, males, tried to deflower or have
sex with virgin girls, lower classmen, before they graduated. And they would keep score of the girls` names on the wall behind the washers and
dryers.
Just think about your girl, whether she`s just 7 years old like my Lucy is or 10 or 15 or 17 ready to go to college. Think about it. Think about her
name, your child`s name being on a scoreboard for everybody to see. As having been part of some boys` Senior Salute. Hold that thought for a
moment.
And I noticed, Justin Freiman and Tracy Caruso, first to you, Caruso, that in Owen Labrie`s testimony, he said, I found myself on top of her. You
know, it reminds me of the "Wizard of Oz" where the house just spins down and it lands on top of the witch. How did that happen? How did I get on
top of her? How did that happen?
[20:50:02] CARUSO: Yes, it`s interesting, isn`t it? Prosecution in closing arguments, too, made the important comment that the only thing he
brought with him that night was a blanket and a condom.
GRACE: OK. He came prepared, right? A blanket and a condom. Listen to closing arguments now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She said no and she said it three times. She held her bra when he tried to take it off. She held her underwear when he tried to
take those off. And she pulled his head up when he tried to perform oral sex on her. And then she froze in fear, as he carried out his plan. As he
penetrated her with his fingers, performed oral sex on her, and put his penis in her vagina.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Jury out. "CNN HEROES."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When I was 17 years old, I had my first hit of crack cocaine. I didn`t know then that I was going to lose the next 12 years of
my life. I was recycled in and out of the system. I stayed out on the streets. I wanted to change. What I needed was a place to change at.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You just got out of jail?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Had no shoes, no food, no nothing. Nowhere to go.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re strong and you`re ready. And you`re willing. Because you wouldn`t have came here if you wasn`t.
We help homeless women and children to reclaim their lives.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`ve been homeless for like almost six months.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We meet women where they are. We`ll pick them up and put them into an environment where they can heal. When a woman transfers
from my shelter program into my permanent supportive housing, they stay connected with us.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s beautiful.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A lot of women come in very traumatized. We have licensed counselors that work with women, with some of those deep issues.
It`s OK to be angry.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I left with nothing. I got my two girls and left. I worked so hard to not lose them. And then I lost them.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Any mother that comes to us that doesn`t have her children, we help get her children back.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s been a long journey, fighting for them, trying to get them back. Thank you, Miss Carter. Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Homeless women and children, I call them invisible people because we pretend that we don`t see them, but I see them. And I
know there`s something we can do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:56:53] LABRIE: I took a condom out of my wallet. I was there with a condom in my wallet. And I took it out. And I opened the wrapper, took
the condom out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: So he just happened to take a blanket and a condom, but now says sex never happened. He`s on trial for rape of a young girl at his prep
school. He`s got a choice. Jail or divinity school after Harvard.
Justin Freiman, what are we missing?
FREIMAN: Nancy, another great point was made that he could have been planning this for a while. During closing arguments, the prosecution said,
five months before this incident, he was asked, who does he want to pork more than anyone else, and within only 25 seconds, he gave the answer, her.
He gave her name.
GRACE: You know, to Cheryl Hunter, sex assault survivor and author.
Cheryl, I don`t think any of us would be talking like that, but that is the phraseology this young man uses. Bombshell, today, it`s come front and
center that the girl shaved her pubic area before the date. Now a lot has been made of that. What do you think?
CHERYL HUNTER, SEX ASSAULT SURVIVOR AND AUTHOR: Well, a lot of people shave without any intent and that something bad is going to happen. I
think at that tender age she`s probably looking at magazines, seeing what they do, and trying to mimic that. It doesn`t mean she`s intending to have
sex.
GRACE: I just find it very hard to believe, Cheryl, that this girl would call her mother at midnight and admit to consensual sex. A lot of the
reasons she wanted to keep this secret, apparently, is because this guy had dated her older sister for a short while. She didn`t want her sister to
find out she met him.
HUNTER: Right. And it`s her prerogative to choose to, like she said, to her friend, let him touch her and perhaps perform some oral sex act upon
him, and still not have sex. That is her prerogative.
GRACE: Yes, and it`s a slippery slope. If you agree to one thing, kissing, does that mean you`re agreeing to sex? If you agree to foreplay,
does that mean it`s OK to have sex, whether you want to or not? That`s the slippery slope.
We are in a verdict watch.
Let`s remember, American hero, Louisiana officer, Henry Nelson, killed in the line of duty. LSU grad, Sunset police officer, 13 years, candidate for
police chief, library, volunteer. Distributed fans to seniors as part of a community effort. Member of Zion Traveler`s Baptist Church, 40 years.
Leaves behind daughter, Alyssa.
Henry Nelson, American hero.
Drew up next with living transgender. Thank you to my guests, but especially to you for being with us. Nancy Grace signing off. See you
tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
