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Nancy Grace
Two Arrests in Sievers Murder. Aired 8-9:00p ET
Aired August 31, 2015 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, Bonita Springs, Florida. New details emerging tonight in the mystery surrounding the
murder of a gorgeous young doctor, mother of two little girls, Dr. Teresa Sievers, found murdered in her upscale Florida home while Sievers`s husband
and two little girls out of town.
Bombshell tonight. As we go to air, not one, but two arrests go down in the murder of Dr. Teresa Sievers. The disturbing twist, one of the two
is Sievers`s husband`s best friend from childhood.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re very, very pleased to announce that charges have been filed out of state against Jimmy Rodgers. Took a second
individual into custody, Curtis Wayne Wright, also out of state in Missouri.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Dr. Teresa Sievers was brutally killed with a hammer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His favorite weapon was a hammer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And live, upscale Houston suburbs, a lawman, deputy Darren Goforth, gunned down in plain sight in the open, pumping gas, just off duty
with the Harris County sheriff`s office, the deputy allegedly assassinated after pumping gas.
The police chief has blamed it on anti-cop rhetoric promoted by Black Lives Matter. But tonight, what was thought to be an open-and-shut case in
the lurch after a witness emerges claiming he`s not the shooter, that he`s got an alibi, ironclad, and she can prove it!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A witness called 911, let us know that one of our deputies had been shot. Multiple units arrived.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My son is innocent. I was in the house with him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Unfortunately, the deputy passed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight, live to Bonita Springs, Florida. New details emerging tonight in the mystery surrounding the murder of a gorgeous young
doctor, mother of two little girls, Dr. Teresa Sievers found murdered in her upscale Florida home while Sievers`s husband and two little girls out
of town.
As we go to air tonight, not one, but now two arrests go down in the murder of Dr. Sievers. The disturbing twist? One of these two is Dr.
Sievers`s husband`s best friend from childhood.
As a matter of fact, after I went on line and started looking at all of their Facebook postings, they refer to each other as brothers and have
been tight for years and years.
As a matter of fact, from what we can tell, the second arrestee, Curtis Wright Jr., his so-called brother, travels all the way from
Missouri, 1,200 miles, to go and comfort Sievers`s husband after her body found.
That is Jimmy Rodgers. I`m talking about Curtis Wright, Jr., the so- called brother -- drives 1,200 miles to comfort Sievers`s husband after her death. Why didn`t he just call him on the phone?
Bob Alexander, anchor with Fox News joining me out of Ft. Myers. Bob Alexander, let`s start at the beginning. Now not one but two arrests have
gone down in the brutal murder of Dr. Teresa Sievers.
Let`s start with Jimmy Rodgers. He was the first one arrested. You know what`s disturbing about him, Bob Alexander? His nickname is "the
hammer." And he brags on line, on Facebook, that his favorite weapon is a hammer. Dr. Teresa Sievers was brutally murdered with a hammer.
BOB ALEXANDER, 92.5 FOX NEWS (via telephone): Nancy, not only did Rodgers brag on Facebook that his favorite weapon was a hammer, he has also
been quoted as telling several neighbors that his favorite weapon is a hammer.
As a matter of fact, he gave one a ride home from a store and pulled the hammer out from under the seat of his car to show the neighbor that it
was his favorite weapon.
They also say that they saw a raid on Rodgers`s home on Tuesday of last week, where bloody clothes were taken out of the trailer, and also a
cooler that may have been spotted with some blood on it. So all kinds of evidence pointing to Jimmy Rodgers`s involvement at this point.
GRACE: Hold on. Hold on. Back that up for me. Bob Alexander -- for those of you just joining us, not one, but now two arrests go down in the
brutal murder of a beloved doctor, Dr. Teresa Sievers. We`ve been on this story since the very beginning, wanting answers.
[20:05:08]You`re seeing pictures right now of the two men, not one, but two men now arrested in connection with her murder. Now, this is one
of them. There he is holding up a bottle of liquor. There`s his girlfriend, who then announces she`s pregnant. This one is Jimmy Rodgers.
Now, I`m focusing right now, however, on the other one, the second arrestee, Curtis Wright, Jr. -- there he is on the left -- who is the best
friend since childhood of Sievers`s husband. I find that connection very, very disturbing.
Bob Alexander, you know what? Let`s start at the beginning. Let`s go back to Jimmy Rodgers because he was arrested first, the one whose nickname
is "the hammer."
You`re telling me there was blood evidence on the cooler he had, as well as his jumpsuit he was wearing. There`s a shot of him that he posted
on line himself. How did police find out about the blood evidence?
ALEXANDER: It was Rodgers`s girlfriend, now ex-girlfriend, as you mentioned being pregnant with his child. She was the one that went to law
enforcement after he allegedly confessed to her about the murder of Dr. Sievers. She made the tip to law enforcement.
They then raided the home of Rodgers. Officials from both Missouri and Florida made the raid. Witnesses saw them pull out the bloody clothes
and also the cooler that allegedly had blood on it.
GRACE: Whoa! OK, I know that Dr. Sievers`s minivan is still being held by police. I don`t know what the purpose of that still is and what
the connection to her blue minivan -- what we`ve got between that and the murder.
You`re seeing Dr. Teresa Sievers,. Not one, but two arrests have gone down. We`ve been telling you about Jimmy "the hammer" Rodgers, who lives
in Missouri. He`s got a rap sheet as long as my left arm.
What was he doing in Bonita Springs? What was he doing with the husband`s best friend from childhood, Curtis Wayne Wright, Jr.? Let`s talk
about Wright. Bob Alexander, 92.5 Fox News, what can you tell me?
ALEXANDER: Curtis Wayne Wright, a longtime friend of Mark Sievers, not only described as a friend but also, he was employed by the Sieverses
at their clinic, mostly from long distances, because he`s an expert with computers. He did a lot of their computer work from Missouri, but also
made frequent trips to southwest Florida to work on the computers there at the clinic.
GRACE: So he had access to their clinic. I wonder if he had access to their home or possibly the codes to their home, computers, to their home
security system.
Let`s see the picture of all the cops out in the yard looking at not only the blue minivan, but at the lights around the home. And then
Statewide Security Home Alarm Systems came. They were looking at how was the home alarm system tricked. Somebody tricked that system. Somebody had
the codes. Somebody knew how to get in without setting off the system.
So Bob Alexander, Fox News, Ft. Myers, Florida, how far back does Curtis Wright go with Dr. Sievers`s husband?
ALEXANDER: According to the documents we obtained, they were friends all the way back to grade school. They`ve been friends ever since then.
And as I mentioned, Curtis Wright has made several trips to Florida. And they describe themselves as brothers on Facebook, although there`s no
confirmation that they`re any kind of relation, but they obviously have known each other for a good portion of their 40-plus years.
GRACE: Question. Bob Alexander, Fox News, what would be the possible motivation for these two to travel 1,200 miles from Missouri to Bonita
Springs to break into their home? We have heard nothing about them having a safe in the home, not a lot of money there. We`ve heard nothing about
the motivation being theft. So -- there`s no sex assault that we know.
So why would these two travel all the way to Bonita Springs to break into a home?
ALEXANDER: Well, that`s kind of the big mystery that law enforcement officials are still holding onto. Sheriff Mike Scott of Lee County,
Florida, has made a statement in the past that this was one of the most intricate cases he`s ever seen in his history of his law enforcement, that
this thing is an active investigation, still ongoing at this very minute. So there`s still a lot of...
[20:10:02]GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa! Did you say it`s still ongoing? They`re still investigating who may be involved in her
death?
ALEXANDER: Yes, it is still an active investigation, according to the Lee County sheriff`s office.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Carissa Kranz, Atlanta, Randy Kessler, Atlanta, Misty Marris, New York. Right now, the husband is not a suspect.
He has not been named a person of interest. He has not been named a suspect.
As a matter of fact, isn`t it true, Randy Kessler, that at the time Dr. Sievers was brutally murdered this her home, he was out of town with
the two children? They were at a family get-together many, many states away. And Dr. Sievers arranged to come back Sunday night. The husband and
the two little children, I believe, were going to come back on Monday, 24 hours later.
And it was in that small window of time these two come, break in the home and kill Dr. Sievers, don`t molest her and don`t steal anything. What
about it, Kessler?
RANDY KESSLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I hope we find out what happened, but right now, all we have is circumstantial evidence and
speculation. We have nothing tying these people directly to the murder. They say there`s a witness. What did the witness say? What is the
witness`s motive? We have nothing except speculation.
GRACE: Did you just hear -- did you just hear...
KESSLER: Speculation.
GRACE: ... what Bob Alexander said about blood evidence?
KESSLER: Where`s the doctor? Where`s the chain of custody? I don`t have that blood evidence in front of me. There was blood, they say. I
assume the cops wouldn`t arrest somebody without a good suspicion, but we don`t know anything other than what they`re telling us on TV and through
these reports...
GRACE: Misty Marris, why are you shaking your head?
MISTY MARRIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I`m in complete agreement. At this point, it`s all speculation. We do not have any information or specifics
to link these two to the murder. And Mr. Sievers -- the only thing that`s even at question here is a relationship with a childhood friend. That is
not enough to even speculate about a connection to this murder at this time.
GRACE: Now, the arrest of Curtis Wright, who is one of the best friends of Teresa Sievers`s husband, in connection with her murder, bears
very odd similarities to the plot of this summer`s blockbuster movie, "The Gift." Now, in that, a couple`s perfect life blown apart after they have a
chance encounter with a husband`s high school best friend. They invite him over and take a look at this from STX Entertainment Blumhaus (ph).
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... smiley force, Gordo.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How do you think he got our address? That`s an expensive bottle of wine. We should thank him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I believe that the bad things in life, they can be a gift.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That guy`s odd.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s a little socially awkward. I can be like that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Gordo, hi.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After high school, some people stay exactly the same.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s delusional, thinks that we`re friends.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thanks for a lovely dinner.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fish food. You don`t find that a little troubling?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I said that I wanted fish.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All the visits when you`re alone. They used to call him Gordo the weirdo.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think he`s nice and he`s been very generous.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What you`re talking about is a one-sided friendship. You`re essentially being forced into a breakup.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s no easy way to say this. Don`t visit us anymore.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s not over.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Simon, after all these years, I was willing to let bygones be bygones.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What does that mean?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do not know.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It must mean something -- bygones be bygones after all these years?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What the hell was that?
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gordo!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What does "bygones be bygones" mean?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s over!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Simon has a full file on him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think he`s been lying to you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just tell me what happened.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was 25 years ago.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have no idea who you really are.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Simon says new house. Simon says beautiful wife. Simon says you think you`re done with the past, but the past is not done
with you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:18:52]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dr. Sievers was found brutally murdered.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Beat a woman to death with a hammer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: More than eight weeks of work culminated in an arrest halfway across the country, in Missouri.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Two men in Missouri are said to be charged in connection to Sievers`s death.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t know how someone could do that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m just a little bit curious about why.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He always talked about his favorite weapon was a hammer. And he said that to me multiple times, that his favorite weapon
was a hammer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gave me chills, knowing that he said that his favorite weapon was a hammer.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I seen them take bloody clothes out of Jim`s car to put in a paper bag, to put in the CSI truck.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They went through that van and found a cooler, a white cooler, and it had blood spots in it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They were taking all kinds of pictures of the outside and inside of his car, the outside and inside of his trailer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Carissa Kranz out of Miami, Randy Kessler, Atlanta, Misty Marris, New York. So Misty Marris, you`re saying,
you and Kessler, saying that there is no evidence. Did you just hear the witnesses? Those were two witnesses, so I guess you two are arguing they
fabricated the blood evidence?
[20:20:06]MISTY MARRIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, but we don`t know what the blood evidence is at this point. That was a very general
statement. We don`t know the specifics of it. And the mere fact that he called himself "the hammer" is just not enough. That`s completely
speculative. That`s his only link.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Not only did he call himself "the hammer," Randy Kessler, he actually boasted on line his favorite weapon was the hammer.
KESSLER: That`s right. So if you wanted to frame somebody, what a perfect opportunity because everybody in the world knows that if she`s
murdered with a hammer, guess who`s going to get blamed for it, the guy who calls himself "the hammer"...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: I would never have known that. I think it`s got a little bit more to do with the fact that their fingerprints are likely everywhere.
And they`re spotted at a local Walmart 1,200 miles away from home, near Bonita Springs.
Also, the best friend, a childhood friend of the husband, Mark Sievers, who is not a suspect, had access to the computers at the office.
He worked for them, long distance, and would occasionally come back and forth to Bonita Springs to work on the office computers.
Speaking of computers, isn`t it true, Michael Christian, that right when Dr. Sievers was found dead in her home, we saw police deputies, law
enforcement, removing computers from the home?
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): That`s right, Nancy. And you know, we don`t know. Police have not revealed
whether this friend, Curtis Wayne Wright, was ever in the Sievers`s house when he came to repair those computers or to service the computers in the
medical office. But if they`re best friends -- if he`s best friends with Mark Sievers, it`s certainly logical to assume or at least question whether
he did that. It just makes sense.
GRACE: Well, I mean, very often -- Ben Levitan joining me out of Raleigh, telecommunications expert. Ben Levitan, isn`t it true that many,
many people have, let`s just say, one to two to three passcodes, and they use those pass codes on everything, from getting into their e-mail, their
texts, their iPhone, to their bank accounts, to their credit card accounts, to a host of things, using the same configuration of letters and numbers?
And once you`ve got it, it doesn`t -- you don`t have to be a brain surgeon to figure it out.
BEN LEVITAN, TELECOMMUNICATIONS EXPERT (via telephone): You absolutely don`t, Nancy. And he`s the ID guy for that office. If you lose
your password, that`s probably the guy you would go to, to reset your password. He probably has everybody`s passwords, Nancy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:26:37]UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Beat a woman to death with a hammer.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I hear a shrill.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An arrest halfway across the country in Missouri.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two vicious killers are in custody. And this case will be ongoing. It`s ongoing literally as I speak, right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: A stunning twist in the case of Dr. Sievers, Dr. Teresa Sievers`s murder. Liz, please show me the side-by-side of Dr. Teresa`s
husband, Mark Sievers, and the friend, Curtis Wayne Wright, Jr. They almost pass as twins. In fact, they refer to themselves as brothers. Dr.
Sievers`s husband, Mark Sievers, out of town at the time she was murdered in their home.
To Cedric Alexander, CNN law enforcement analyst, Dekalb County public safety director -- Cedric, how did they track these two down in another
state?
CEDRIC ALEXANDER, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: We don`t know all the information police may be working on. But what we do, once an
investigation began, as you probably well know, one single piece of evidence, one witness statement could lead to a variety of questions.
Once you store exploring each one of those avenues, it`ll lead you down a trail that gives you further indication that people may be involved.
So it appears to be still somewhat early in this investigation, but it`s going to prove to be quite an interesting case.
GRACE: OK, another issue, to Ben Levitan. We know that the boyhood friend, Curtis Wright Jr., is a computer whiz. Now, do you believe that
telecommunications-wise, there are going to be cell phone records, texts, or is he too smart for that? Whoever he was texting or calling, wouldn`t
the two just get those disposable phones that can`t be tracked?
LEVITAN: Absolutely, Nancy. Of course, we might get a disposable phone, but if you use that phone, what police can easily do is track it
from the other directions. He did call people. Also, when you buy a cellular phone, even if you go buy it in cash, most stores keep that video
for 30 days. It`s likely he bought that phone within 30 days (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: But you know, the thing is, between Missouri and Bonita Springs, how many convenience stores did he pass where he might have bought
a disposable phone, you know? And of course, who was he calling on the disposable phone? I would be very interested, Ben Levitan, to see if there
were a flurry of phone calls between Rodgers, Wright, and anybody else leading up to the time of Dr. Sievers`s murder, during, and after her
murder. What about that, Ben?
LEVITAN: Absolutely. If we are going to look at everybody`s phone, and if there`s an unknown phone calling Sievers, well, we`re going to trace
that number. And it`s going to trace back -- even if it`s a throwaway phone, it`s going to trace back to possibly, you know, a convenience store
in Missouri.
But Nancy, these phones are going to give you a digital diary of everywhere he has gone. He claims to have showed up to console his friend
after the murder. If he has a phone, if he used any social media...
GRACE: Right.
LEVITAN: ... if he used any electronic device, it`s going to show his location.
GRACE: That brings up a really good question. To Dr. Daniel Bober, forensic psychologist, why do criminals and killers in general return to
the scene of the crime? Here this guy drives 1,200 miles to comfort Sievers` husband, and one of the sisters says, that`s the first time she`d
ever met him?
BOBER: I think it`s narcissistic, Nancy. It`s anti-social, and in some way, they derive some sick pleasure from going back to the scene of
the crime, almost like rubbing the victim`s nose in it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:35:00]
GRACE: Live, Houston. A lawman, Deputy Darren Goforth, gunned down in plain sight, out in the open, pumping gas, just off-duty with Harris
County sheriffs. The deputy allegedly assassinated after pumping gas, and the police chief blames it on anti-cop rhetoric, promoted by Black Lives
Matter. But, tonight, what was thought to be an open and shut case in the lurch, after a witness emerges, claiming he`s not the shooter. That he`s
got an ironclad alibi and she can prove it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Authorities say the uniformed deputy was refueling his patrol car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t recall another incident this cold-blooded and cowardly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This man, caught on surveillance camera, came up behind him and opened fire.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Joining me right now, out of Houston, Carmen Watkins, host of Point of View KJOZ. Carmen, thank you for being with us. Tell us, first
of all, what happened with the deputy shooting death.
CARMEN WATKINS, KJOZ: You know, this is a tragic shooting. This is a cold-blooded killing of an officer at a gas station 15 times in the back.
This is horrific, all by itself.
GRACE: Everybody with me, Carmen Watkins, joining us from KJOZ. Very, very disturbing. This is in the open, in plain view. How did the
shooting occur, Carmen?
WATKINS: Well, we don`t know, because there was no witnesses to an altercation before. This deputy was getting gas, and someone came from
behind him and shot him 15 times, and then he lay dead. And there`s nothing to say that it was anything else that happened before that
incident.
GRACE: Well, what can you tell me about Deputy Darren Goforth? Is it true he had just gotten off of work? What do cops have to start doing now?
Changing to plain clothes before they leave the precinct? Is that what they`ve got to do?
WATKINS: I certainly hope not. There has been -- let`s look at the fact that there has been an increase of attacks on police officers across
the country. And I would hope this would not be the case where any police officer -- I`ve got officers in my family -- have to change clothes in
order to feel safe. This is unjustifiable. I think the real issue is what you talked about earlier. Is this the person who did it? Is it caused by
something else? That`s what they have to figure out.
GRACE: Well, wasn`t he shot, Stacy Newman, wasn`t he shot 15 times in the back?
NEWMAN: He was totally ambushed. He was walking back to his vehicle, and the suspect approached him, Nancy, held the gun to his head, and opened
fire, unloading 15 rounds into this deputy.
GRACE: Let`s see the still photo, Liz, please. You were taking a shot of the still -- let me see the still photos at the scene of the
shooter. There you go! Okay. I`m looking at this, and you know what, if this is the best photo they`ve got, they`ve got a problem. What other
evidence is there that this guy, Shannon J. Miles, 30 years old, is the shooter, Carmen Watkins, other than those still photos?
WATKINS: Well, you let the mother tell the story. They don`t have anything, because he was supposedly shopping with her at the time of this
shooting. And so she`s saying that they`ve got the wrong person.
GRACE: Stacy Newman, what are the facts? What do police say they`ve got? Because the photo -- and I`ve had that happen to me in court. Where
I look at the photo of the scene, of the crime, and I can`t properly identify the perpetrator. And so I certainly can`t ask a jury. There`s
got to be more than just this photo, Stacy. I mean, what do we have?
NEWMAN: Well, we just showed you a picture of that red pickup. This is a pickup the suspect was driving.
GRACE: Let`s see the red pickup, please. Let me see what she`s talking about. Let`s see that in full, if you don`t mind. I want to look
at it. The red pickup that Stacy is telling us about, in full, please. What can you tell me, Stacy?
NEWMAN: I can tell you, this has a special, what they call an after- market trailer like hitch on it. So what they were able to do is take the registration from this truck and cross-reference it to addresses in that
area. They go to this home, a guy answers the door, they see this truck in the driveway. That`s the suspect`s brother. He identifies the truck as
belonging to the brother, and then when police were there, the mother and the suspect pulled up and they questioned him. There they connected the
dots. They also found the evidence, Nancy, in the garage of this gun, which is a .40-caliber pistol, matching the bullets that were found, the
casings there at the scene, at the gas station.
[20:40:00]
GRACE: Okay. Hold on. Hold on. So, we`ve got, Stacy, let me -- there`s the home. So you`re telling me, Stacy, that the murder weapon is
found in the garage of Miles. He pulls up with his mom, here you go, in this home right here, upscale Houston suburbs. And that the bullets at the
scene and from the deputy`s body, Deputy Darren Goforth, match up to this gun. Did you just say that, Stacy?
NEWMAN: Yep, it matches up, and the gun was found hidden in a baseball bag in the garage. Also, too, there was a cooler, a white cooler
that was in the back of this pickup that was spotted when it was seen on surveillance. That cooler was also at the house. So there`s a lot of
evidence they laid out in court at his initial court appearance today, Nancy. This is all the evidence that the prosecution has, they say against
the suspect.
GRACE: Okay, that`s a lot of evidence, Stace. However, let me go back to, if you`ve got just that picture, that`s not going to carry the
day. Now, the murder weapon, yes, Cedric Alexander, law enforcement analyst, here`s the deal. When you`ve got the weapon and you`ve got the
ballistic match, there is only that match to one bullet and one gun. It`s like a fingerprint. And it`s very simple the way it works. When you make
a gun, when it`s made in the factory, the metal of the inside of the barrel cools after it`s been forged. And there are drops of metal, there`s
striations inside the barrel. And when the bullet hurdles down that barrel so quickly, those exact striations from inside the barrel mark the bullet
forever. That bullet matches up to that gun. Not another gun like it, but that gun. Right/wrong?
CEDRIC ALEXANDER, LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: You`re absolutely right. And in addition to that as well, too, the shell casings that will be
collected from that evidence scene will also be used as a match to that weapon as well also, Nancy. And all of this, all of this physical evidence
that come into play and being found at that residence in close proximity to that crime is going to suggest very strongly --
GRACE: Well, hold on, though. Hold on, Cedric Alexander. All of this evidence, you say, is ironclad is now thrown in the lurch by a newly
emerging witness who says he, Miles, has an alibi, that he didn`t do it. And she can prove it! Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My son is incident. I was in the house with him. So when that happened, my son was home. My son is innocent. I was
in the house with him. So when that happened, my son was home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:47:30]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A witness called 911, let us know that one of our deputies had been shot. Multiple units arrived.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My son is innocent. I was in the house with him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Unfortunately, the deputy passed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Tonight, the open assassination of a deputy, simply pumping gas after he gets off work. He was still wearing his uniform. To Carmen
Watkins, KJOZ host. Is there a connection between Miles, Shannon Miles, the alleged perpetrator, and the victim, 47-year-old deputy Goforth? Did
they know each other? Was there bad blood? What do we know?
WATKINS: There is no evidence that there was any connection between the two.
GRACE: Okay. To Ahmad Greene joining us out of New York, Black Lives Matter, New York. Thank you for being with us.
Now, the alleged rhetoric from Black Lives Matter is what the chief, the sheriff, is blaming this on. I blame it on the shooter, all right? I
don`t know what he`s listening to on the radio or what he`s doing or what`s going on in his mind, but he`s the one that pulled the trigger. I want to
hear your thoughts.
AHMAD GREENE, BLACK LIVES MATTER: That`s absolutely correct, Nancy. First of all, I want to say the pain that results from the loss of any life
is what drives many black activists to protest, and I personally mourn the loss of Deputy Darren Goforth. To be clear, Black Lives Matter does not
condone the loss of any life, whether it be law enforcement or civilians. We`re actually calling for an end to police abuse in black and brown
communities and across the nation. Black Lives Matter, we seek to end all forms of state-sanctioned violence, in which Black Lives Matter actually is
an affirmation of black life in America and across the globe. We want changes in laws and practices that demonstrate that black lives does not
matter--
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Do you think, Mr. Greene -- I`m a victim of gun violence myself. Do you believe that there are those contingents out there that
take your genuine sentiment, that all lives matter, and then they extrapolate it into cop hating?
GREENE: Well, you know, Nancy, it occurred to me that Black Lives Matter as a them is no less inflammatory than other themes, right? Let`s
say for example, uplifting the rainbow flag.
[20:50:00]
That is the rainbow flag that affirms LGBTQ (inaudible); Black Lives Matter does not insist that majority groups matter less. It insists that
the lives of majority groups -- for example, cis-gender, heterosexual folks, and white people are valued more. So we`re not actually, we`re
affirming ourselves and our right to live.
GRACE: I hear you, Ahmad, and I agree with you. The rise of attacks on police officers is escalating. It`s getting worse and worse and worse,
and I hear you, Ahmad Greene, calling for an end of violence on minorities. And I don`t see why the two aren`t mutually exclusive, the end of violence
on police and the end of violence on minorities.
To Dr. Daniel Bober, forensic psychiatrist, whenever I had the mother of a defendant take the stand, I wouldn`t want to cross-examine the poor
woman, for Pete`s sake, even though I thought she was lying. Would I do the same thing for my son? Yes, I would. I would totally lie to save his
neck, sorry. But the reality is, this is his mother. Dr. Bober, a mother to go out and swear under oath she was with her son. She`s already changed
her story once. She said they were shopping, then she said they were at home at the time of the shooting. Come on, what leads her to tell police,
to go under oath is what she`s going to be asked to do, and give that alibi?
BOBER: Nancy, there is no more powerful instinct than for a mother to protect her child. That mother would say absolutely anything to keep her
child out of trouble. I think that`s a given.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have been in law enforcement 45 years. I don`t recall another incident this cold blooded and cowardly. I think it`s
important to ask for the prayers of our community. For this deputy. His family and our department`s family.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My son is innocent. I was in the house with him, so when that happened, my son was home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK. That is suspect Shannon Miles, 30 years old, mom giving an alibi for her son in a cop shooting. Deputy Darren Goforth, 47, father
and husband, gunned down, 15 shots to the back with a 40 caliber. Dr. Debbie Nampiaparampil, assistant professor, NYU School of Medicine. Dr.
Debbie, a 40 caliber, 15 shots in the back. Did he even know what hit him? Did he die immediately? I can only hope so. I hope he didn`t lay there
face down at a gas station on the ground, knowing he was dying.
NAMPIAPARAMPIL: It depends where he was shot. Let`s say the bullet slipped through between the ribs and hit him in the heart or in one of the
major blood vessels. Then he could have died instantaneously. But otherwise, with this type of bullet, a lot of times it will wound you. So
rather than killing you or penetrating through and through, it will actually get deflected by bone, and then cause more damage and more blood
loss. So, for him, with 15 gunshot wounds, depending on where it hit him, whether it was the muscle, the joints, the bones of the spine, he could
have suffered quite a bit.
Now, the other thing is the size of the bullet. A 40 caliber bullet is less than half an inch, it`s a pretty large bullet to be penetrating
through someone.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Carissa Krantz, Randy Kessler, Misty Marrice. Kessler, let`s start with you. There is no privilege like
priest/parishioner/attorney/client, husband/wife marital privilege between mother and son. We learned that during the Monica Lewinsky debacle, where
her mother was actually called to the grand jury, remember that? But the mom according to sources has already contradicted herself and given
inconsistent statements. First they were shopping, and then when she realized, there`s going to be video, where`s my credit card receipt, it
suddenly changed to we were at home together, Kessler.
KESSLER: The mom is better than nothing. He didn`t have an alibi until this. My defense would be, yes, this is a horrible crime. We have
to make sure we have the right person. Just as bad as the horrible crime will be putting the wrong person behind bars. There`s a burden of proof
that they have got to meet. And the mom now gives the defense a chance.
GRACE: Not only, Carissa Krantz, does she have to explain where they were, but then who planted the gun in the garage. What about that?
KRANTZ: That`s a very good question. How the gun got in the garage. That was registered to him. Whether the bullets were actually from that
gun.
GRACE: Let`s stop and remember American hero, Missouri trooper, James Bava, 25, killed in the line of duty. Missouri state highway patrol, on
duty only an hour when he lost his life. Leaves behind parents, one brother, three sisters. James Bava, American hero.
On a happy note. Happy birthday, Shirley Tolbert, mother, grandmother, loves husband Dave, who fought in Vietnam. Arranging flowers,
leaving them on her husband`s grave, and bakes the best sugar cookies in the world. Thanks to my guest, but especially to you for being with us.
Inviting us into your homes. Nancy Grace signing off, see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, good night, friend.
END
