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Nancy Grace
Sievers Murder Investigation Developments. Aired 8-9:00p ET
Aired September 01, 2015 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, Bonita Springs, Florida. New details emerging tonight in the mystery surrounding the
murder of a gorgeous young doctor, mother of two little girls, Dr. Teresa Sievers found murdered in her upscale Florida home while Sievers`s husband
and girls out of town.
Not one but two arrests go down in the murder of Dr. Sievers. The disturbing twist, one of the two arrestees is Sievers`s husband`s best
friend from childhood.
Bombshell tonight. We dig through the night to put together a timeline. Police insisting they are still on the hunt for anyone else
responsible for the brutal murder of Teresa Sievers. Who could that be?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This was a woman that did not deserve what happened to her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sievers was found dead in Bonita Springs. A SWAT team raided Wright`s trailer 1,200 miles away.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It gave me chills knowing that he said that he -- his favorite weapon was a hammer.
DR. TERESA SIEVERS, VIDEO: That`s why I didn`t go in (ph) about what I`ve done because it`s going to kind of unfold as we go through.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That video from Teresa Sievers`s YouTube channel.
And live, Fairhaven. "Go ahead and do it. Do it, babe. Why haven`t you done it yet? You haven`t done it? Get back in your truck and try
again" -- to kill yourself!
These are the tip of the iceberg, just some of the texts honor student Michelle Carter sends her extremely sensitive young boyfriend, Conrad Roy.
After over 1,000 texts, plus e-mails, plus phone calls, she finally convinces the sensitive young high school grad to park his pickup at the
local K-Mart, turn on the ignition and inhale monoxide until he dies. Tonight, stunning new details emerge.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "Just park your car and sit there, and it will take, like, 20 minutes. It`s not a big deal."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Roy died of carbon monoxide poisoning in a pickup truck.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She stays on the phone with him to ensure that he`s dead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "And he got scared. And I (EXPLETIVE DELETED) told him to get back in."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And live, San Antonio. Warning, caught on graphic cell phone video. Did Texas police gun down a man, his hands up in the air, unarmed,
or was he?
Good evening, I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. Live to Bonita Springs, Florida. Tonight, new details, disturbing details emerging in the mystery surrounding the murder
of a gorgeous young doctor, a mother of two little girls, Dr. Teresa Sievers, Dr. Teresa found murdered in her upscale Florida home while
Sievers`s husband and little girls remain out of town after a family vacation.
Not one but two arrests go down in the murder of Dr. Sievers. The disturbing twist? One of the two is Sievers`s husband`s best friend from
childhood.
Bombshell tonight. We dig through the night to put together a timeline, as police insisting at this hour, they are still on the hunt for
anyone else responsible for the brutal murder of Dr. Teresa Sievers. Anyone else? Who could that be?
Let`s see that frame shot, Liz, that side-by-side.
Now, the two men that have been arrested, as you all know by now, Curtis Wayne Wright and Jimmy Rodgers, both live in Missouri. The side-by-
side of Curtis Wayne Wright and Sievers`s husband -- that side-by-side. Now interesting, Curtis Wayne Wright and Dr. Sievers`s husband, Mark Sievers,
are almost doppelgangers.
Look at this. The one on the left is his, Mark Sievers`s, best friend from childhood, have stayed in touch all these years. They live over 1,200
miles apart. Mark Sievers, on the left, married to Dr. Teresa Sievers, and they claim on line that they are brothers.
Now, I don`t know if there`s an actual blood relation, but why would your best friend travel 1,200 miles with your sidekick, Jimmy Rodgers, to
murder your best friend`s wife while you are out of town?
Joining me right now is a special guest, in addition to Rita Cosby and Michael Christian, Sheriff Mike Scott is with us from the Lee County
sheriff`s office. Sheriff, thank you so much for being with us.
[20:05:07]MIKE SCOTT, LEE COUNTY SHERIFF (via telephone): Thank you.
GRACE: Now, Sheriff, I know a lot of this you can`t comment on, but forgive me for asking. Our viewers are extremely attached to Dr. Sievers,
and we all want to see justice. You stated that the investigation is ongoing, that anyone else that may be partially involved or responsible for
her brutal murder, you are tracking them down. Is that correct?
SCOTT: Yes, ma`am, that`s very much correct. We have still evidence that`s yet to be finalized in terms of evaluated and analyzed, both
evidence that was gathered here in Florida and as well in Missouri and at points in between.
And so, you know, we believe, obviously, we had a great start with these two in custody. However, anything and anybody that`s remotely
associated with this case, we obviously have an obligation to move forward with that, and that`s what we`re doing. We have not let up at all. Our
foot is very much on the gas pedal, and we`re moving forward full speed ahead with the investigation.
GRACE: With me, special guest Sheriff Mike Scott, who`s been on this case around the clock with his people, all law enforcement.
Sheriff Scott, question. How soon after finding Dr. Sievers`s body in her home did you dispatch detectives to Missouri?
SCOTT: It was about two weeks afterward. I will say that, initially, we developed strong suspicion that this was not random or arbitrary, that
this was, in fact, a targeted event targeting Dr. Sievers.
And in that vein, I tried to communicate to the public -- of course, absent an arrest, it`s difficult, but communicate to the public that we did
not feel that anyone else was in harm`s way.
Evidence continued to build. Suspicion became stronger, to the point, frankly, of probable cause, at which time, we went to -- we dispatched
detectives to Missouri.
I`ll tell you that, initially, what we sent them for was far less than we came up with. We sent them initially for three days. We figured they`d
be there for three days. They were there three weeks on that first trip.
GRACE: Wow.
SCOTT: So on that end, things continued to unfold. And you know, we started to get some breaks, big breaks in the case.
GRACE: You know, we`ve heard the reports about a bloody jumpsuit being taken from Jimmy Rodgers`s belongings. And if that is the blood of
Dr. Sievers, that will be a direct DNA link. Not so much news about Curtis Wayne Wright.
Let me ask you a question, Sheriff Scott. Do you believe that only two perpetrators entered Dr. Sievers`s home at the time she was killed?
SCOTT: Well, I`m not able to say that with certainty, no. You know, anybody, as you know, that`s within the general envelope, particularly in a
-- you work from the inside out. And so when we start to talk about family members, close friends, business associates -- and I`m speaking generally
now, but it could be applied to this case, as well -- sort of working from the inside out, that general envelope of initial suspicion is one that`s
fairly broad.
And you know, it can be husbands, wives, brothers, sisters, close family friends, business associates. And so that`s sort of what happened
initially. And as remains the case now, I`m not at liberty to say that there`s no one else directly involved with the crime...
GRACE: Right.
SCOTT: ... or indirectly to the point that they would be culpable criminally for the activity that took place.
GRACE: You know what`s interesting, Sheriff Scott? And I`m going to go to you on this, Rita Cosby, investigative journalist, WABC host -- Rita,
I notice that Jimmy Rodgers -- let`s take a look at the timeline, please.
Rita, Jimmy Rodgers, who is not the look-alike best friend of Sievers`s husband -- he`s the other one -- his nickname is "the hammer" and
he has actually stated on line that the hammer is his preferred weapon.
You know what`s interesting? He actually said that he was going to make $10,000 over the weekend.
Now, Sheriff Scott, isn`t it correct that Rodgers, AKA, also known as "the hammer," somewhere said he was going to get $10,000 over the weekend,
but he gets off work on Friday and he -- around 6:00 PM. He doesn`t punch back in. He wasn`t supposed to punch back in until Tuesday. Dr. Sievers
was murdered between Sunday and Monday, correct?
SCOTT: Yes, ma`am.
GRACE: So do we have any idea how Rodgers, Sheriff, thought he was going to get $10,000 cash that weekend?
SCOTT: Well, as I said earlier, we have a lot of ideas, and many of those are supported by, frankly, a mountain of circumstantial evidence and
a significant amount of physical evidence, as well, that we continue to look at.
GRACE: Right.
[20:10:00]SCOTT: And I`ll tell you that that quote specifically, Nancy, that you talk about in terms of him mentioning the $10,000, I
believe that quote is attributed to his...
GRACE: Girlfriend?
SCOTT: ... employer. Yes, ma`am.
GRACE: Oh, the employer. Yes, yes, yes. You`re absolutely right about that.
As a matter of fact, joining me right now from Cadet (ph), Missouri, Tyler Juliette, the former boss of Jimmy Rodgers. Tyler Juliette, thank
you so much for being with us.
TYLER JULIETTE, FMR. BOSS OF JIMMY RODGERS (via telephone): Thank you, ma`am.
GRACE: You know, it`s amazing...
JULIETTE: Can you hear me?
GRACE: Yes, sir. It`s amazing, isn`t it, that you can work with somebody so long and you think you know them, and then they are suddenly
implicated in something like this. It`s happened to me before, where you think you know the people you`re working with and then, boom, guess what?
You don`t know them at all.
How long did Jimmy Rodgers, also known as "the hammer," work for you, Tyler?
JULIETTE: He worked for us for -- he was hired on 8/27/14, so it was almost a year to the day.
GRACE: Did you ever hear him brag he was going to make $10,000 that weekend?
JULIETTE: No, not working for us, he wasn`t.
GRACE: OK. I know that he said that. I`m trying to narrow down where that came from. Let me ask you, what was his demeanor when he worked
for you?
JULIETTE: We never had a problem with Jimmy. He showed up for work. He was on time. He did his job. I never had -- never had much, you know,
of a complaint ever on him, to be honest with you.
GRACE: And he worked at a smelting business?
SCOTT: He worked wherever we needed him. We work for a lot of different companies. But that`s where he was at, at the time that week,
and a few weeks before that. He had been working for a company that we sub out to, yes.
GRACE: Well, let me ask you this, sir. He works generally in smelting and he subs out doing other things. Would he normally be able to
pull in $10,000 in one weekend?
JULIETTE: No, ma`am.
GRACE: OK, because that`s a pretty pricey bill, $10,000 in one weekend.
JULIETTE: You bet.
GRACE: Do you have any idea how he could have made -- who would have paid him to do what job for $10,000 in 72 hours?
JULIETTE: Well, I can assure you it has nothing to do with us, ma`am.
GRACE: Guess what? I believe you. I believe you, Tyler Juliette. You cooperated with police. You cooperated when you realized they needed
information for his arrest. What happened?
JULIETTE: We -- I don`t know if you -- that Jimmy also rents a home from us. We also have a lot of rental properties. So we knew that they
were here or close by his vicinity, or his home, actually. We wasn`t for sure what was going on, but we knew that they was trying to, you know, get
ahold of him.
I got a call asking if I could get him -- asking what time he got off his shift, and I had to call the foreman that runs that crew. He informed
me that Jimmy didn`t get off until approximately, I think, it was 5:00 or 6:00 o`clock.
So that (INAUDIBLE) getting back here at 6:00 o`clock that day. And they didn`t -- they wasn`t willing to wait that long, so they asked me if I
would go ahead and put an order in for him to come on home and just tell him that his PO needed to do a spot check on him as soon as possible.
GRACE: Probation officer?
JULIETTE: Yes. Yes, ma`am.
GRACE: OK.
JULIETTE: And so I called my foreman and told him to go ahead and get somebody to cover Jimmy for the last few hours and get him sent home, that
the probation officer need him here ASAP for a check. And that`s what happened. And we really knew no details at all at the time.
GRACE: Wow. When you look back and you realize that he is now implicated in the murder of Dr. Sievers, were there any red flags? Was
there anything suspicious at all?
JULIETTE: No. I mean, it`s very disturbing to think that he worked for, you know, our company as long as he did around my employees that long,
if he had anything to do with this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:18:18]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The investigation is still ongoing, and more information will come available as the investigation unfolds.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Seemed like 20 SWAT guys or so, a whole bunch of - - a whole bunch of jackets and flak jackets and a whole lot of rifles.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of the reasons this case has taken so long is the volume of evidence that needs to be lab tested.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very much an ongoing and active investigation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Dr. Teresa Sievers was out of town at a family gathering of her family. She took with her her husband, Mark Sievers, and their two
little girls, but she decided to come back that Sunday night.
Or was that planned ahead of time? Mark Sievers staying along at Teresa Sievers`s family get-together with the children, coming back the
next day. And while he was gone, tragedy strikes, Teresa Sievers found dead in her home.
Well, in the last 72 hours, arrests go down of not one, but two people from Missouri. Turns out one is Mark Sievers`s childhood best friend, also
his sidekick, Jimmy Rodgers, AKA "the hammer."
Joining me right now in front of the Sieverses` home, investigative reporter Nicole Partin. Nicole, you`re there. What do you see?
NICOLE PARTIN, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Nancy, today I noticed something different outside Dr. Sievers`s home. The blinds on the front
door are open, but I`m also noticing that those security lights are still remaining on.
It was early on in the investigation that you brought up the point of the security system, the security lights. We began to question, did the
person who broke into her home know how to manipulate that system?
We are learning from friends of Curtis Wayne Wright that he had a previous job as a security system business. Does this in any way tell us
that he was able to manipulate the system in order to get into Dr. Sievers`s home?
[20:20:10]GRACE: OK, Sheriff Mike Scott, special guest joining us, the Lee County sheriff. Sheriff Scott, my head is absolutely spinning.
It`s bad enough, I thought, that Wright is the husband`s best friend from childhood. They claim they`re brothers. They`re doppelgangers. They
looked just alike. He worked as a computer whiz for Dr. Sievers in her office. I`m sure the husband fixed that up.
But now I learn that Wright is a security person, he worked at a security system company?
SCOTT: There was some employment history along those lines, yes, ma`am. And my head is spinning, as well, and has been since the case
unfolded, just for reasons that you`ve enumerated and so many others that we know about, these facts, as you say, that continue to come out that we
know ahead of time, and many more together with them.
And so again, I emphasize that no one, nobody is outside of the envelope of suspicion and/or as the evidence takes us to possible
responsibility...
GRACE: Sheriff Scott, let me ask you this. Did the Sieverses have a safe in their home?
SCOTT: I know the answer to the question, but I think I`m going to decline speaking to it.
GRACE: OK. Because if somebody knows -- for instance, if Wright knew they had a safe and he knew they kept X amount of money there, it would
make sense that Rodgers`s girlfriend is bragging he`s going to get $10,000. But if she did not have a safe, where would that number come from? Very,
very disturbing.
To Ben Levitan, telecommunications expert. Ben, here he`s got a security background with a security company. He`s a computer whiz. If
this home security system were wireless, that would be a piece of cake for him to break into.
BEN LEVITAN, TELECOMMUNICATIONS EXPERT (via telephone): Well, absolutely, Nancy. But most of these security systems can be remotely
turned on and turned off. He was fully aware of the entire network. He probably recommended all the computer networks that were in Dr. Sievers`s
office. He probably had the codes that he could remotely turn these off, Nancy.
GRACE: But who would know...
LEVITAN: And who knows, he may have even been able to have access to the safe.
GRACE: ... the husband -- the other thing, if there was a safe. But the other thing is, who would have known he was gone for the weekend? The
wife was gone. Were they surprised when she came back? Was that a surprise? But couldn`t they see both cars there and know Dr. Sievers was
back, that the home wasn`t empty?
Joining me again at the scene, investigative reporter Nicole Partin. What else can you tell me, Nicole?
PARTIN: Nancy, we`re hearing from Jimmy Rodgers`s girlfriend that in the days leading up to Dr. Sievers`s death, he told her he would be working
out of town and that he would receive $10,000 while he was away.
Now, we`re unclear. Was he expecting to rob $10,000 from the family home, or was he going to be paid $10,000 for killing Dr. Sievers? We don`t
know.
But we do know that on Friday evening, he clocked out of work at 6:00 PM, made the 1,200-mile journey here, was seen at a nearby Walmart, and
hours after that, Dr. Sievers was found murdered.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:27:21]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rodgers and Wright were taken into custody, both facing second-degree murder charges.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I seen them take bloody clothes out of Jim`s car to put in a paper bag to put in the CSI truck.
SIEVERS: So why have I done this, all this extra training? Truly, it`s for my patients.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That`s Dr. Teresa Sievers on her YouTube channel. She`s dead, leaving behind two little girls.
In the last 72 hours, two arrests go down, but police say they`re still looking. They`re still on the hunt. Best friend from childhood,
Curtis Wayne Wright, Jr., sidekick "the hammer" Jimmy Rodgers.
Rita Cosby, investigative journalist, WABC -- Rita, that $10,000 is really bothering me because he either thought he was going to get paid
$10,000, or that there was $10,000 in the safe.
Now, couldn`t they see that there were two cars there? One should have been at the airport. But Dr. Teresa Sievers was there. They had to
know she was there when they went in.
RITA COSBY, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST: No, indeed. And on the $10,000 point, not only did the boyfriend -- this is Jimmy Rodgers -- reportedly
tell his girlfriend he was gone and going to make $10,000 on a side job, she told someone else, Then we can buy a van because we`re having a baby.
Apparently, the couple did get a van soon afterward, so authorities can trace the money that way.
The other thing, Nancy, both of these guys have rap sheets, not just the guy who looks like the husband but the other one, as well. The Jimmy
Rodgers guy has firearms in his background, served multiple times in prison. And then the Wayne Wright, the guy who`s friends with the husband,
also served time for manufacturing methamphetamines. Both of them were in prison.
GRACE: With me, Rita Cosby, investigative journalist, WABC host.
To special guest Sheriff Mike Scott, Lee County sheriff. Sheriff, thank you for being with us. Have you guys determined whether there was a
life insurance policy on Dr. Sievers?
SCOTT: We have, but again, I`m not at liberty to specify anything with regard to that. But we are aware of that. In other words, that`s an
angle that we`re very much aware of and very much on top of.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Robin Ficker and Jacoby Hudson. First to you, Ficker, joining me out of D.C. Why is this only a murder two charge?
Because if these two drove all the way from Missouri, 1,200 miles, to kill Dr. Sievers, they had plenty of time to plan this.
[20:30:00]
FICKER: That`s why the attorneys for these two men have to fight extradition because Florida is a capital murder case. They`re going to
look for the death penalty. But here, I think the sheriff Scott`s certainty that he has his men is inversely proportional to the facts. They
can`t trace the money, there are no fingerprints, they don`t have the DNA. He`s guessing.
GRACE: Whoa, whoa. Whoa, whoa. We heard the neighbor say, did we not, Jacoby Hudson, she saw police taking a bloody jumpsuit, which P.S.,
this guy, the Hammer, wore a jumpsuit at a previous job, out of his vehicle, an ice chest covered in blood, out of his vehicle. Long story
short, why would these guys argue extradition? That`s not determining if you`re guilty or not, it`s just are you Wright, are you Rodgers. That`s
the only question on extradition they`re fighting. They`re not coming from Missouri to Florida without a fight. Why, Jacoby?
HUDSON: Well, they`re going to fight extradition because Florida is a capital -- is a capital state. So they could be seeking the death penalty
in Florida. So they will fight extradition for the simple fact that they don`t want to be subjected to the laws of Florida.
GRACE: Put them back up. I`m going to go to Sheriff Mike Scott and get a straight answer. Sheriff, isn`t it true you can fight extradition,
but the only question on extradition is, are you Jimmy Rodgers? Are you Curtis Wayne Wright? All they have to do is compare the fingerprints and
they`re on their way to Florida?
SCOTT: That`s correct. They`re going to come to Florida regardless. The only question is Rodgers, with his stint in the federal prison right
now for probation violation, is whether or not he comes and at what point. But that process is going to happen regardless of what either wants to do.
Our governor will sign a warrant to bring them here. There`s no question in my mind they`ll both come to Florida to face these charges.
GRACE: Do you think there`s still a killer at large? Do you believe this investigation is not over, Sheriff?
SCOTT: I absolutely can tell you this investigation is not over. There`s no question that it`s ongoing. We still have people literally
working around the clock and continuing to follow leads and developing information.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:37:00]
GRACE: Live, Cedar Haven. Go ahead and do it. Do it, babe. Why haven`t you done it yet? You haven`t done it? Get back in your truck and
try again. To kill yourself. These are the tip of the iceberg, just some of the texts honor student Michelle Carter sends her extremely sensitive
young boyfriend, Conrad Roy. After over 1,000 texts, plus e-mails, plus phone calls, Carter finally convinces the sensitive young high school grad
to park his pickup at the local K-Mart, turn on the ignition, and inhale deeply, breathing in carbon monoxide until he`s dead. Tonight, stunning
new details emerge.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You have to just do it. You have everything you need. There is no way you can fail. Tonight is the night. It`s now or
never.
But next I`d try the bag or hanging. Hanging is painless and takes like a second if you do it right. Everyone will be sad for a while, but
they will get over it and move on.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: It is incredible what we are learning about what this young girl says to her extremely sensitive boyfriend. She`s his first love. He
loves her deeply. Take a listen to what she told him before he kills himself.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don`t do it in the driveway. You will be easily found. Find a spot --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know, I`m thinking a public place? If I go somewhere private, they may call cops.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, then someone will notice you. Do you think you`ll get caught? I mean it only takes 30 minutes, right? Just
park your car and sit there and it will take, like, 20 minutes. It`s not a big deal. Well, I would do the CO. That honestly is the best way, and I
know it`s hard to find a tank, so if you could use another car or something, then do that. But next I`d try the bag or hanging. Hanging is
painless and takes like a second if you do it right.
You`re not joking about this or bull [ bleep ] me, right? I just want to make sure you`re being serious. Like I know you are but I don`t know.
You always say you`re going to do it but you never do. I just want to make sure tonight is the real thing. I bet you`re gonna be like oh, it didn`t
work because I didn`t tape the tube right or something like that. I bet you`re going to say an excuse like that. You seem to always have an
excuse. Do you have the generator?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not yet. Lol.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, when are you getting it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Okay. You better not be bull [ bleep ] me and saying you`re going to do this and then purposely get caught.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, none of that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Okay, good.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I don`t even know where to start. And look at that puss in court. To Laura Grimaldi, reporter with the Boston Globe. What is
happening? Who is this girl? Why was she so intent that her high school boyfriend kill himself?
[20:40:00]
LAURA CRIMALDI, BOSTON GLOBE: So, Michelle Carter is a resident of Plainville, Massachusetts, and she had met Conrad Roy some two years ago
when they were both in Florida visiting relatives who happened to live in the same neighborhood. According to her defense attorney, for months
leading up to Conrad Roy`s suicide, she was trying to convince Conrad to get help and not to kill himself, and then at some point he says his term
is that she was brainwashed and decided to endorse Conrad`s idea of committing suicide.
GRACE: You know what, I know, Laura Crimaldi, that is what her defense lawyer says. But to Becky Maki, aunt of the victim, the dead boy,
I don`t know that she was brainwashed. He`s the one that ends up dead. When she says, you know what, if you can`t use the bag, then hang yourself.
BECKY MAKI, AUNT: I think it`s absolutely ridiculous defense strategy. I think they`re grasping at straws. She was clearly
brainwashing him.
GRACE: To Dr. William Morrone joining us, renowned medical examiner and toxicologist. Dr. Morrone, how long would it take this young boy,
extremely sensitive since this was his first girlfriend he`s ever had, how long would it take him to die of carbon monoxide inhalation?
MORRONE: Carbon monoxide inhalation at a concentration greater than 10,000 parts per million, he`d be dead in two to three minutes.
GRACE: Well, I guess she`s right. Take a listen to what she told him, Dr. Morrone.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don`t be scared. You already made this decision. If you don`t do it tonight, you`re going to be thinking about it
all the time and stuff, and all the rest of your life and be miserable. You`re finally going to be happy in heaven. No more pain. No more bad
thoughts and worries. You`ll be free. It`s okay to be scared, and it`s normal. I mean, you`re about to die. I would be concerned if you weren`t
scared, but I know how bad you want this and how bad you want to be happy. You have to face your fears for what you want.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:46:30]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just park your car and sit there, and it will take like 20 minutes. It`s not a big deal.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Roy died of carbon monoxide poisoning in a pickup truck.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She stays on the phone with him to ensure that he`s dead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And he got scared. And I [ bleep ] told him to get back in.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: She is accused of forcing, of brainwashing, encouraging her young and extremely sensitive high school boyfriend to commit suicide. If
you don`t believe me, listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I really want to get this [ bleep ] generator going. It`s perfect.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, you said you can`t.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s got to be another way.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So what are you going to do?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kill myself.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, can you see if there is another gas machine?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s actually another generator at my dad`s house.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, can you see if there is another gas machine? Can you get it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Possibly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I mean it goes on and on and on. Unleash the lawyers. Robin Ficker, Jacoby Hudson. Ficker, give me one good reason she should not be
charged.
FICKER: Call your Massachusetts state legislators, Nancy. Unlike 40 other states, there`s no law in Massachusetts that says you can`t talk to
someone about committing suicide. I agree, she reminds me of a lady in a Hitchcock movie where they have funny music going on. But criminally, not
responsible, possibly.
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold on about that. Stacy Newman, also on the story with Laura Crimaldi, she is charged, Stacy.
NEWMAN: Yes, she`s charged with involuntary manslaughter. To Robin`s point, he left out that the night that Conrad kills himself, she texted
Conrad`s sister and pretended that he was missing, so if it was just a suicide, why didn`t she say that right away? She also texted the mother
pretending that he was missing as well.
GRACE: Okay, Ficker, you heard it. What about it, Jacoby Hudson? It`s not that she`s just talking about suicide. If that were accusatory,
then everybody on suicide hotlines would be in trouble, because they`re talking to people about suicide, about not committing suicide. She goes on
and on. Look at these stacks I have of transcripts of all of her egging him on to him himself. One reason, Jacoby, she should not be charged.
HUDSON: Because he did the act. Nancy, listen, he specifically said he wanted to kill himself. He is responsible for his own death.
GRACE: Hold on. Let`s follow that through, Robin Ficker. So if the three of us decide to go rob the Wells Fargo and I run in with the gun and
get the money, and you two plan the whole thing and give me the gun and we split the money, since you didn`t rob the bank with the gun, does that mean
you`re not responsible, Ficker? Absolutely not! You`re just as guilty as I am.
FICKER: She didn`t give him the means, and you haven`t said that he tried to commit suicide before. He had the predisposition.
GRACE: You know what, this young man, Becky Maki, the aunt of the young boy, he had never tried to commit suicide before to my understanding.
MAKI: He had tried to commit suicide years ago.
GRACE: Ah, so he had that in his background. Did she know about that, do you know, Becky?
MAKI: She was fully aware of that.
GRACE: To Laura Crimaldi, thanks for being with us, Laura. I keep reading through all of her texts to him. Plus there were phone calls, plus
there were e-mails. It seems as if the only thing she didn`t do was turn on the ignition.
[20:50:00]
CRIMALDI: Well, she wasn`t present when he did die. That is one thing that her defense team pointed out. But that isn`t necessary for an
involuntary manslaughter charge, as the prosecutors will point out, there are instances where construction accidents or industrial accidents or
manufacturers or construction companies will end up facing involuntary manslaughter accusations for things that happened not in their presence,
but perhaps because they made a product or are overseeing the construction site where something happened.
GRACE: She`s right. She wasn`t present when it happened. Becky Maki, you are Conrad Roy`s aunt. Does that make any difference to you?
That she was not present?
MAKI: She was present. She was on the other end of the line, she walked him there every step of the process, being on the phone while he was
doing it. She heard him gasping for his last breath. He got out of the car at one point, and she told him to get back in. If that`s not being
there, I don`t know what is.
GRACE: OK, Ms. Maki, I did not know she was on the phone with him as he breathed his last breath. And he tried to get out and she told him to
get back in the car?
MAKI: She told him to get back in. She reported to her friend afterwards, she was text messaging with her friend, and she said, I heard
him gasping, I heard him coughing, I heard him moaning, and she heard him die. She was into it, and I think she enjoyed it, she`s a sick individual.
GRACE: Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know, I`m stressing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re fine, it`s going to be okay. You just have to do it, babe, you can`t think about it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Okay, okay, I got this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, you do, I believe in you. Did you delete the messages?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, but you`re going to keep messaging me?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I will until you turn on the generator.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Well, I`m bringing my sisters for ice cream.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So will you do it when you get back?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yep, I`ll go right there.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Okay.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Love you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I love you so much.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:56:00]
GRACE: Did Texas police gun down an unarmed man? Look at this. Please take it in full. Look at this. There you can see police walking,
walking, where is the guy, there he is. Doesn`t have on a shirt. He`s holding his -- about to hold his hands up. Keep watching, hands up in the
air. I don`t see anything in his hands, but keep looking, keep looking. Hands in the air. Oh, okay. Shot dead with his hands in the air. Michael
Board, WOAI. What happened?
MICHAEL BOARD, WOAI: Nancy, what you don`t see on this video is what happened just before this, is the sheriff`s deputies were called out to a
home for a family fight. This guy was in his front yard with a knife in his hand waving it around. The sheriff`s deputies used both riot shields
and a taser to try to get this man under control.
GRACE: Wait a minute, you said he had a knife in his hand. But Matthew Horace, law enforcement security expert, senior VP, FJC Security,
I`m looking at the video, I don`t see a knife in his hand. I don`t see a gun in his hand, nothing.
HORACE: Nancy, there`s no reason in my mind why deadly force should have been used in this case. No knife, no gun, no movement, no nothing.
No arrest, I don`t understand.
GRACE: You know, Matthew, I`m on the side of the cops, when you`re in danger and somebody has a weapon, fine, I get why you shoot, but this guy`s
holding his hands up in the air. He clearly -- I`m looking right at it. He doesn`t have anything in his hands.
HORACE: Nancy, I`m in your corner, I`m on the side of the cops, but in this case, we`ll have to figure out what their state of mind was as Joey
Jackson always says, what were they thinking when they shot those rounds? They already used bean bags, they already used a shield, they already used
a taser, they didn`t work, why was it necessary to use lethal force.
GRACE: Let me go back to Michael Board, WOAI. You`re saying earlier he had a knife and/or a gun?
BOARD: Yes, he did have a knife earlier, and he as waiving it around at the sheriff`s deputies as they tried to get him under control.
GRACE: Dr. William Morrone, he was shot more than once, and my understanding was when they processed his body, there was not a knife or a
gun. What about those bullets? Would he have died instantly?
MORRONE: Any time you`re shot to the torso, you`re going to risk fatal internal bleeding, that`s what makes you lose your pressure and fall
down. If you hit fatal arteries in the torso or down in the groin, you could bleed to death in five minutes.
GRACE: Let`s stop and remember American hero, Michigan trooper Chad Wolf, 38, killed in the line of duty. Served state police seven years,
Pensacola Christian College Grad. Youth leader, parents Lyle and Karen, two brothers, one sister, widow Erin. Four children. Chad Wolf, American
hero. Thanks to my guest, but especially to you for being with us. Nancy Grace signing off for tonight, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp
Eastern. Until then, good night, friend.
END
