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Nancy Grace

iPhone Tracking Eyed in Dentist`s Murder/Tot`s Body Parts Found in Lagoon. Aired 8-9:00p ET

Aired September 09, 2015 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, upscale Dallas. Family of a murdered and gorgeous pediatric dentist insist she was not the

victim of a heist after the popular pediatric dentist shot dead in the parking garage of her luxury Dallas high-rise.

Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, did a female love rival track the dead dentist through her iPhone?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who killed Dr. Kendra Hatcher? Was jealousy of their young love a motive for her murder? Search warrants claim Hatcher

was tracked by her boyfriend`s ex-girlfriend before she was gunned gown in the parking garage of her Dallas high-rise.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: That video from ABC`s "GMA."

And live, Garfield Park. In the last hours, the remains of a tiny tot reportedly weighted down with workout weights in a neighborhood lagoon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is unthinkable, that -- that -- you know, that someone would dismember a child and then just throw them in here in

the lagoon. That`s just -- that just hurts.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: and live. It`s a spate of suicides, extortion and lawsuits all because of sex hook-up site AshleyMadison. Tonight, we learn a beloved

pastor on AshleyMadison commits suicide.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A site that proudly helps married people cheat.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re the Duggars. Josh is our oldest.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Two active accounts connected to Josh Duggar.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A pastor, a husband, father of two.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Committed suicide after hackers identified him as a member of that cheating site.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And live, Orlando. A deadly poisonous king cobra escapes its owner`s garage, on the loose, neighborhood schools in lockdown!

Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.

Bombshell tonight. Live to upscale Dallas. The family of a murdered gorgeous pediatric dentist insists she was not the victim of a heist after

the popular dentist was shot dead in the parking garage of her luxury Dallas high-rise. Well, in the last hours, did a female love rival track

the dead dentist through her iPhone?

Straight out to Robyn Walensky, senior news editor at TheBlaze. Robyn, thanks for being us. First of all, you have gone and checked out

the parking garage where she was killed, Kendra Hatcher, just absolutely gorgeous, in the prime of her life, a dentist to children specifically.

And we`re showing you a Jeep right now that we believe was driven by the assailant. Robyn, what can you tell me about the parking garage?

ROBYN WALENSKY, THEBLAZE (via telephone): Good evening, Nancy. Well, first of all, the building is called Gables Park 17. It`s one of the most

expensive buildings that you can live in in Dallas. It`s actually part of the skyline.

But the parking situation there is completely bogus. There`s no guard at the gate. I was actually there a few weeks ago for a birthday party.

And you can drive in and piggyback off of cars that are going in. So if you live there, Nancy, and I just happen to drive in behind you, the gate

goes up, but it doesn`t go down like an arm (ph) gate would one at a time.

GRACE: Hold on. Robyn Walensky...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: Everybody, you`re seeing YouTube video from Gables Residential.

Back to Robyn Walensky, I just wanted the viewers to know what they were looking at. This is really exclusive. Check this out. You`re seeing

the interior of Gables Park 17 high-rise in an exclusive area there in Texas. Look at this.

So this is where she lives -- lived, Robyn Walensky, before she was shot dead in the parking garage. But you`re saying as exclusive and

expensive as it is, it wasn`t safe?

WALENSKY: That`s correct. The apartments there run in the range of $2,000 to north of $5,000 a month.

So when I went to a party there recently, Nancy, and I went alone, I went to park in this area. And one entrance to where the residents live,

you can easily drive in after somebody. The gate goes up. The arm does not go down. So it`s not a one at a car -- at-a-time system.

And then they have another parking garage that`s attached where the murder did not take place but on the other side of the street, and that

also is completely porous. Anyone can get in there. It`s a beautiful, beautiful building with no guard at the gate.

GRACE: Well, funny, Robyn Walensky, funny/odd that you`re saying that because my theory is this, Robyn, that whoever killed her -- I agree with

her family.

[20:05:00]Now, I know the family are not paid investigators or private eyes or police detectives, but families very often have intuition the rest

of us don`t know about their loved one. And it`s my theory somebody waited until that arm went up, just like you`re describing, and scooted in, that

they went to where her parking spot was.

Is there assigned parking there, Robyn?

WALENSKY: There`s not assigned parking, but here`s the situation. There`s security cameras only where this metal gate goes up. That`s the

only place. So you can see where a car is going in. And then the only other security cameras in that garage are inside, facing the elevator,

where as a resident, you would have a key fob to get into...

GRACE: Hold on. Hold on.

WALENSKY: ... the elevators to actually go up.

GRACE: Hold on. I want to tell the viewers what they`re seeing. Right now we`re showing you the Jeep. This looks like a woman. It looks

like a woman is driving the Jeep. I can`t tell what model that is. I don`t know that that`s a new model Jeep. And a woman is driving the Jeep.

Michael Christian, how do we know that this is the vehicle from which the bullets were fired?

MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): It has been identified by the security video you`re seeing, Nancy, and also some

witnesses saw it. Now, it was being driven, apparently, by a woman named Crystal Cortes. She admits that she was there, but she said she was paid

$500 to drive somebody there for the purpose of robbing Kendra Hatcher, not to kill her.

GRACE: OK, hold on. Hold on. Look at this. Crystal Cortes claims that she was driving the car, that she was paid by an unknown person $500 -

- to shoot or rob Kendra Hatcher, Michael Christian? To shoot her or rob her?

CHRISTIAN: To rob her, she says.

GRACE: Well, then, why did she end up dead, and what was actually really taken? Hold on. What was taken, Robyn Walensky? What was taken

from Kendra Hatcher, the pediatric dentist?

WALENSKY: The police are not saying what was taken, Nancy. But I will tell you that I have heard from witnesses who live in that building

that she was still in her dental scrubs, a black outfit, as I`m told, with one gunshot only, and that reportedly, the man -- allegedly who was a man -

- they had a mask over their face. The person got out of that black Jeep. It`s an older model. It`s a 1996 black Jeep Cherokee -- and shot her once.

And they`re not saying what was taken.

GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Joining me, Alex Sanchez out of New York, veteran trial lawyer, and renowned lawyer Robin Ficker out of D.C.

All right, let`s start with you, Sanchez. You know, you`d think it`d be an easy matter to track this vehicle down, but not so, because when they

track it down to the owner -- and this is verified -- the owner says, Oh, I loaned it to so-and-so. The owner of that vehicle was not driving the

vehicle. I know that. So that`s out.

Now, we`ve got this Crystal Cortes woman who claims she was driving the vehicle that had nothing to do with shooting. We know that a masked

man did the shooting, but now we learn about a female love rival, Alex Sanchez, a female love rival that was allegedly tracking this girl on her

iPhone. What about that?

ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, this case is going to start with Crystal Cortes because she`s in the best position to, number one,

identify the person that was driving that car. And once she...

GRACE: No, she was driving.

SANCHEZ: Well, she was driving, but there was another man in that car, and she`s in the best position to identify who that man was. She must

know him or she must know where he can be found. They must have had some type of communication. Nobody`s just going to get into a car with a

stranger to commit a crime.

GRACE: Well, here`s the other thing, though. I don`t know, Robin Ficker. She was paid $500 to just drive the car, to get in the car with

the guy and drive.

Now, here`s my thing, Robin. What was really taken? Because I don`t think this was a robbery. I think that this woman, this pediatric dentist,

Kendra, was targeted. For what? It wasn`t to rob her. I don`t think there was a robbery or a sex assault. So what`s the motive, Ficker?

ROBIN FICKER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: What was taken was her life. This is a felony murder. They conspired to rob. And then if someone`s killed

incidentally, they`re guilty of murder.

GRACE: Well, I don`t know that anything was actually stolen.+

Larry Fishelson, technology expert and co-founder of Dynalink Communications -- Larry, explain to me how somebody you don`t even know --

in this case, the pediatric dentist`s boyfriend`s ex-girlfriend is the one that allegedly was tracking her.

How can somebody you don`t even know track your iPhone?

LARRY FISHELSON, TECHNOLOGY EXPERT (via telephone): Very simple to do. Basically, what has to happen is you have to have their password and

ID. Once you have their Apple password and ID, you can go ahead and use that from any location to get and track anyone`s phone.

[20:10:05]GRACE: Wait a minute. You`ve got to have the Apple ID and password?

FISHELSON: Correct. So as long as you have the Apple ID and password of that person, which she obviously had -- she went ahead and tracked it.

She can track it from a phone. She can track it from a PC dialing in. All you got to do is go into the iCloud, put in the password, and it`ll give

you the exact location of that person.

GRACE: I smell motive! Alex Sanchez, Robin Ficker joining me right now. So if she can hack into her ex-boyfriend`s info, get this girl, this

woman dentist`s, information -- why was she tracking the girlfriend, Robin Ficker, the new girlfriend? And why was this woman shot in the parking

garage, no robbery, no rape, the car wasn`t stolen?

This Jeep came into the parking garage earlier and waited for her. This was not random, so why? And why is the ex-girlfriend tracking her,

Robin Ficker?

FICKER: It`s a love triangle. It`s jealousy. This happened time and again since time immemorial. It`s a love triangle.

GRACE: Well, it`s a love triangle that may have ended in murder.

Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the apartment where Dallas police scoured, trying to find any evidence that links the person who lives inside to death

of Uptown dentist Kendra Hatcher. According to newly obtained documents, Cortes told police that she conspired with witness (ph), being identified

as the ex-girlfriend, to drive an unknown male subject to commit the offense of robbery against Kendra Hatcher. In return, she would receive

$500.

The search warrant also indicates that the ex-girlfriend possessed a black iPhone that was used to track the location of the complainant`s cell

phone just prior to the shooting. We`re also learning that according to Cortes, the ex-girlfriend now in question had just ended a two-year

relationship with Hatcher`s current boyfriend earlier this year.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:16:15]GRACE: Live, Garfield Park. In the last hours, the remains of a tiny tot reportedly weighted down with workout weights in a

neighborhood lagoon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is clear is that the toddler was found in the lagoon in pieces.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Heartbreaking.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Straight out to Geoff Pinkus, talk show host, WCGO. Geoff, tell me about this area where the tiny tot body was found. It`s not a full

body. But what about this area? It`s a residential area, correct?

GEOFF PINKUS, WCGO (via telephone): Yes, it`s residential. It`s not in the best of areas, Nancy.

GRACE: To Stacey Newman. I want to hear what we know about this area. Look at this graphic we have for you. There are basketball courts,

a fieldhouse, pool, lagoon, a trail.

Everyone, as we go to air tonight, a tiny tot`s body has been found in a residential area lagoon, all right? Just trying to understand that a

weight was involved, too, like the kind you work out with, we think.

Stacey, what can you tell me about the area? It was residential, correct?

STACEY NEWMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Yes, there`s homes around this part. This is actually a nice park where people actually

come with their children to play. They see the geese in that area. So it`s heavy trafficked by family and small children.

GRACE: Now, you said geese, like, families go to the park, they go sit around the little pond or lagoon, whichever they call it. And how did

-- who saw a body part, a tiny tot`s, I think, ankle?

NEWMAN: Well, this was a passerby who was just walking next to this lagoon -- this is Garfield Park lagoon -- and saw a foot, what appeared to

be a foot, floating in the lagoon. They called 911. Officers and marine officers came out and searched, and then by the end of the night, found two

feet and two hands of a small child.

GRACE: Oh! Oh!

NEWMAN: The next morning, they found a toddler`s head.

GRACE: Stacey, you`re saying that they found two feet and two hands separately, removed from the arms?

NEWMAN: That`s correct. And it appears that this child was likely dismembered after their death, according to the preliminary examination at

the medical office.

GRACE: With me, Dr. Devi Nampiaparampil. Dr. Devi, question. When a body is under water for a period of time, as in the Laci Peterson case, the

body slowly degenerates and the body will come apart after it has been in the water for a long time, especially if the body is weighted down with a

weight, like a dumbbell.

DR. DEVI NAMPIAPARAMPIL, ASST. PROF., NYU SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: Sure.

GRACE: How can you look at a body and look at this tot`s body and tell it was dismembered before or after death?

NAMPIAPARAMPIL: Well, you can look at the patterns of bruising, for example. So if somebody is alive and they get cut, you can see

inflammation, swelling. You can see a certain pattern of bruising and healing.

But if the cuts happened after the child has passed away or has died, then you won`t see that because the heart is not pumping brood to those

areas.

GRACE: OK, another question, Dr. Devi. How can you tell if the hands and or the arms did not naturally disattach from the torso from being

under the water for a period of time?

NAMPIAPARAMPIL: Well, the body will decompose over time. That`s true. But typically, the limbs don`t separate that way, or you can look at

kind of the pattern of how they separated.

[20:00:04]But the decomposition probably did contribute to those limbs or those parts coming and floating. What happens is, you know, we have

bacteria, let`s say, on our skin or in our intestines. And as it kind of digests that area, it`ll causes gases that will cause the body to float.

GRACE: So the body would float in that manner.

I understand, Stacey Newman, that right now, we`re not sure if this is a girl or a boy. We don`t know if the child is white, African-American,

olive-skinned. We`re not sure. The body has degenerated, including the skin, that much. For a minute there, they thought it was a boy. But then

when I said, Why do you think it`s a boy, I found out because it didn`t have earrings. It`s ears weren`t pierced. Well, OK, my daughter is 7.

Her ears are not pierced. So to me, that is not a good signal that it`s a girl or a boy.

So Stacey, why are they saying they don`t know if the tot is a girl, a boy, white, olive-skinned, Hispanic, African-American? Why don`t they

know?

NEWMAN: Well, because of the -- it was badly decomposed, so they`re having to now rely on fingerprints, footprints, dental records, DNA. And

the only description we have for sure is that the child`s hair was short, curly and black, and brown eyes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[20:25:19]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is unthinkable, that -- that -- you know, that someone would dismember a child and then just throw them in here

in the lagoon. That`s just -- that just hurts.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: A tiny baby`s body has been found weighted down in a residential lagoon, a pond, so to speak, and around it are houses,

apartments. This is where families walk with their children. Geese are in the pond. A passerby notices what they believe to be a tiny ankle. We now

believe the child is 18 months to 4 years old.

Geoff Pinkus joining us, talk show host, WCGO. Geoff, what are they doing to try to identify the child?

PINKUS: Well, they`ve sent the remains -- they`re doing an autopsy. And the latest is that -- and I just heard this and read it, like, within

10 minutes before your show that they do think it is a boy that they have. And it could be as young...

GRACE: So they do think...

PINKUS: ... as 8 (ph) months or as old as 4 years.

GRACE: They do think it`s a boy. Geoff Pinkus joining us, talk show host, WCGO.

Joining me right now is Eric Bartelink, Dr. Bartelink, forensic anthropologist from California State University. Thank you so much for

being with us, Doctor.

How can you look at bones and determine -- especially severed bones, where you don`t have the torso. How can you tell if it`s a boy or a girl?

ERIC BARTELINK, FORENSIC ANTHROPOLOGIST (via telephone): Hi, Nancy. That`s a very difficult question. For someone of this age, the only way to

really be sure is to conduct a DNA test and to see if the DNA evidence suggests that they`re male or female because the characteristics that are

apparent on the skeleton do not emerge until after puberty.

So it would be very difficult without either DNA testing or external genitalia to examine to say something about the sex of the individual.

GRACE: Now, what did you say, Dr. Bartelink, about after puberty? You can then determine what by the skull? Let`s see a shot of the skull

again, Liz.

BARTELINK: So for the skull, you can certainly take measurements if it`s an adult, or you can look at the structure of the pelvis, and that`ll

give you clues as to whether the person is a male or a female. But in a child, or an infant in this case, you wouldn`t be able to see those

structures. They don`t emerge until someone`s gone through puberty.

GRACE: Everyone, we`re talking about a body that has just been found in Garfield Park area -- head, hands, feet found, apparently weighted down

by a weight, a workout weight. And at this hour, we`re trying to determine who is this child, why they were killed.

I mean, the reality is, Geoff Pinkus, it had to be murder. Why else would you weight a child`s body down and leave it in a body of water?

PINKUS: Well, just the dismemberment, I mean, right there -- I mean, it`s such an evil, brutal act on a child. There`s no question about it.

And also wanted to just throw in a mention that they`re also draining the pool, and that`s going to take about two days to even get more

evidence. So within a day or two, they should know exactly -- know what the child is.

GRACE: Joining me right now, president and founder of Klaas Kids Foundation, Marc Klaas. Marc, why hasn`t anyone noticed a child is

missing, a neighbor, someone at play school, a relative? No one has reported this child missing.

MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION (via telephone): Well, that`s a really great point. And indeed, the child does not seem to match up

against any of the children that are missing in or around that community.

That tells me that, number one, the child might have been an isolated child, did not have a lot of interaction with people outside the home, and

that, in fact, may very well have been murdered by one of his or her parents. And this is very troubling.

I think one of the best opportunities here is that the national missing and unidentified persons system, which was created by the office of

justice programs, was created for just this scenario, Nancy. They take identifying information and DNA and place it into a publicly available

database in hopes that at some point in time, somebody will be able to identify this child and beat (ph) any person, and hopefully, bring the

perpetrator of this horrible crime to justice.

GRACE: And to Caryn Stark, psychologist. The psychology behind not just killing the child but dismembering the child and weighting it down --

this has got to be local, number one, because who else would know about this little pond in the middle of houses and apartments.

[20:30:00]

STARK: It has to be local. That`s true. But it also has to be somebody -- I feel like this is a very neglected child, Nancy, because no

one has reported this child missing, and the way that it was cut up after it was dead means that the person could not have had feelings. There`s no

emotions involved with the death of this child. And the weights, I think, tell you a lot too. Like somebody was really interested in building up

their body, but certainly not their emotional intelligence, to be able to commit a crime like this. It`s appalling.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:35:00]

GRACE: Suicide, extortion, lawsuits, all because of a sex hook-up site Ashley Madison. Tonight we learn a beloved pastor on Ashley Madison

commits suicide.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: New Orleans pastor John Gibson committed suicide after hackers identified him as a member of that cheating site.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was just six days after hackers exposed the names of millions signed up for Ashley Madison.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The leak of Ashley Madison`s customers profiles.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Now we learned a beloved pastor, a seminary professor married with two children, has committed suicide. This after he was outed. His

name on a list of Ashley Madison users. Here he is right here. His name is John Gibson. Before this, seemingly happily married with two children.

And Chloe Melas, senior reporter, Hollywoodlife.com. Here`s the question. Just because you go on one of these websites and look at it does not mean

that you cheated. But maybe in his world, being a minister, being a seminary professor, it was tantamount to cheating, you know. Why would

anybody even think -- I know about the hack, but I`ve never even thought to try to look people up that I know, to see if they were on Ashley Madison,

so tell me what happened, Chloe?

CHLOE MELAS, HOLLYWOODLIFE.COM: All right, Nancy. He actually left a suicide note. In that, he said the guilt of having ever having logged on

to Ashley Madison just overtook him and he just couldn`t go on with his life anymore. His wife Christi spoke out and said that she and her two

daughters would have forgiven him, and he was just so upset. He detailed all of his emotional struggles in his very, very tragic suicide note.

GRACE: Let me understand this, Chloe Melas, senior reporter, Hollywoodlife.com. So he was so embarrassed and humiliated and, I guess,

at a loss of why he did it, disappointed in himself, that he commits suicide because he logged on to Ashley Madison or joined it. Whatever

there is, a $20 fee. Was there any evidence that he ever had an affair?

MELAS: There was no evidence that he took it any further than just logging on to that account. But what goes along with logging onto that

account is the idea that you did have an affair. He was just so distraught that he had ever even logged on that he felt like he couldn`t go on anymore

and he killed himself.

GRACE: What do we actually know about pastor John Gibson and his involvement with the hack?

MELAS: Well, Nancy, we do know that he did log on to Ashley Madison. He did create an account, but there are several different websites, which

you said, where you can actually type in names and e-mail addresses and see if people you know popped up. That`s how his name came out in public. His

family has said they would have been forgiven him if there were any indiscretions. But they actually never knew if he did cheat or not.

GRACE: Oh, no. We also have reports that a police officer was outed on the Ashley Madison website, and he also committed suicide. Unleash the

lawyers. Alex Sanchez and Robin Ficker. Now lawsuits abound against Ashley Madison, extortion claims, isn`t that correct, Chloe? People have

gotten onto the website where there`s a big list of everyone`s that`s been outed and they`re extorting them? Pay me money or I`ll tell your family

you`re on this list, that`s happening, Chloe?

MELAS: Exactly, Nancy. There are these phishing types of websites and e-mails that people are getting, saying if you pay me x amount of

dollars I will clear your name and any kind of trace that you ever had an account with Ashley Madison, which isn`t true and is not possible. So

people are being extorted for money even if they just set up an account and never even had an affair.

GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Alex Sanchez, New York, Robin Ficker, Washington. Alex Sanchez, what do you think of these lawsuits that are now

being filed, several class-action lawsuits, against Ashley Madison?

SANCHEZ: I think they have a lot of merit, because somebody joins on this Ashley Madison website. They`re expected and they understand they`re

going to have some type of security. They are not expecting all their private information to be exposed all over--

GRACE: Security? When you`re trying to cheat?

SANCHEZ: Let`s not get into this blame the victims, okay?

GRACE: I`m not blaming these victims. I`m not blaming those two victims. I`m overwhelmed that they were so embarrassed and disappointed in

themselves that they committed suicide just because they looked at this website.

SANCHEZ: Don`t assume everybody that went on that website, Nancy, is some slick huckster. There`s probably a lot of women on that website that

are desperate, that are living in some awful conditions with their husband. They find this as the only possible escape.

[20:40:00]

GRACE: You got a man that`s no good, so you want another man? That`s your idea of what a woman wants?

SANCHEZ: No, I`m saying there are some desperate people on there that maybe on some economic string that are being abused by their husband, this

is their only escape. They shouldn`t have to go on that website and be concerned that their information is being exposed.

GRACE: Robin Ficker, he is saying that a woman -- this is a hypothetical woman that we have no evidence exists, is desperate in her

marriage, is being abused physically and financially, so her answer to that is to have an affair with a married man on Ashley Madison. Do I understand

that correct, Ficker?

FICKER: Ashley Madison knew this was a romantic house of cards. They knew the office of personnel management, Target, University of Maryland,

had been hacked.

They knew they would be hacked.

GRACE: They knew they would be hacked?

FICKER: And they lured thousands of men onto their site by making up false resumes.

GRACE: Caryn Stark, let me ask you about this. When you sign up to be a cheater, don`t you believe in the theory of inevitable discovery?

You`re going to get busted one way or the other.

STARK: Well, in some ways, Nancy, they may have wanted to be busted. They are taking such a big chance by going online like that. We all know

it`s not secure to go online. We can`t hear enough about things being hacked and surveillance and we`re all being watched.

GRACE: I certainly don`t think it is Ashley Madison`s fault that someone logs on and a hacker gets their name and puts it out there.

There`s no evidence that this pastor ever, ever cheated on his wife. Joining me right now is Mark Saltsman, technology expert. Mark, how did

the hack work?

MARK SALTSMAN, TECH EXPERT: Well, you know, at the risk of geek speak, the most common way websites get hacked is finding a vulnerability

in the back end software. Not what we see when we visit the site, but all the back end stuff that holds the data. It`s often called a sequel

injection (ph) attack, but Ashley Madison is a different story altogether. There`s still an ongoing investigation about how the hackers got in

silently, I`ll add. They didn`t know until they were blackmailed into giving the numbers out, which they didn`t. They wanted them to shut down.

Or else they`d expose all 37 million users, which they did. So they said this was not a sequel injection attack. So the average person can`t do

this. Let`s face it, hacking a major web site is not easy for the general public. If you`re motivated by money, revenge, bragging rights and you

spend some time on what`s called the dark web, you can get the tools and the training needed to hack these websites.

GRACE: Justin Freiman also on the story. Apparently, they`ve got a lot more than just the people`s names that were on Ashley Madison.

FREIMAN: That`s right. When people go onto the site, they have to pay for something. They have names, credit cards, and addresses. All the

information that can do a lot of damage.

GRACE: The latest victim, allegedly, of the Ashley Madison website for sex hook-ups with marrieds is Reverend John Gibson. A pastor, a

seminary professor, happily married, two children, and no evidence he ever cheated.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A pastor, a husband, father of two, a seminary professor with a sense of humor.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My dad was a great man. He was a great man with struggles. My dad reached a point of such hopelessness and despair that he

took his own life.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was just six days after hackers exposed the names of millions signed up for Ashley Madison, a website for people

seeking affairs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Live to Orlando. A deadly poisonous king cobra escapes its owner`s garage and it`s on the loose. Neighborhood schools in lockdown.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This missing reptile, which vanished from an Orlando, Florida, animal farm has venom powerful enough to kill an

elephant.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Okay. I don`t get it. Justin Freiman, how does a king cobra, which can be 18, 20 feet long, just vanish? How does it just vanish?

FREIMAN: The snake`s owner was away for a few days. He went back to his home where he keeps quite a few of these snakes, these exotic animals

and pets, in his garage. It ends up something fell on the garage, broke the garage, water leaked in, according to him, and that softened the cage

enough for this snake to escape. When he came home, the snake was gone.

GRACE: Okay. Why would you keep a deadly king cobra in your garage? You`re seeing video of the escaped king cobra`s owner, Mike Kennedy.

Justin, why did he have this creature in his garage?

FREIMAN: Well, Nancy, he says that he`s an exotic animal dealer. He actually does have the proper paperwork to have these snakes, but

apparently they weren`t properly kept.

GRACE: Joining me right now, Dr. Grey Stafford. Dr. Grey Stafford, help me out. Why have a king cobra? It`s like 20 feet long. In your

garage?

DR. GREY STAFFORD: Sounds like this is a vendor. He probably has this as a side business, which is a regulated entity. You have got to be

regulated to conduct these types of transactions, but you are right, you have to have good secondary containments for animals like that.

[20:50:00]

GRACE: Okay, Grey, what is is a king cobra and why do the sides of its neck puff out like that?

STAFFORD: The neck puffs out like that as a way of displaying a threat, whether that`s towards other males, the right to breed, or it`s

being threatened by humans because it`s being harassed. It`s a way to try to make yourself look bigger to threaten the would-be intruder.

GRACE: What about its venom, Grey?

STAFFORD: It`s highly toxic. It`s a very dangerous animal. And I`m guessing, (inaudible), this animal still probably has its venom and

probably still has its fangs. It`s important for people to be aware of their surroundings in this area where this animal was lost.

GRACE: Everyone, I`m going to be back with the king cobra, but quickly, there`s a desperate search for a missing Texas schoolgirl.

Justin, what can you tell me about Karen Gallardo?

FREIMAN: Nancy, she`s 15 years old. She went to her high school in El Paso, Texas. She never got back home and her mother was extremely

worried, obviously, and she called it in. There`s no sign of her.

GRACE: Do you have a tip line? 915-832-4400. This girl, Karen Gallardo, just turned 15, 5`1, 140 pounds, last seen at her local high

school in El Paso, Texas.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:55:00]

GRACE: A king cobra on the loose. We think it`s about 18 feet long. Justin, how long was this guy, Mike Kennedy, away from home?

FREIMAN: Well, he was away for two days. Then when he got back, he noticed the snake was missing, but he spent about almost 24 hours looking

for it before notifying the authorities. That`s what`s gotten him into a bit of trouble here.

GRACE: So Dr. Grey Stafford from Wildlife World Zoo is with us. I know that the king cobra can live off other snakes, small animals, would

that include a child? Oh, here you`re seeing video from Discovery Channel`s "Airplane Repo." And this guy, Mike Kennedy, is a star on that.

I don`t know what "Airplane Repo" is, but here he is. And this is the guy whose king cobra has escaped. What could that snake do to a child?

STAFFORD: Well, it certainly could kill a human being, an adult human being, and it wouldn`t take a lot of venom to do that. So anyone who comes

across this animal ought to use extreme caution, notify authorities, and not attempt to contain the animal by themselves.

GRACE: Isn`t it true, Justin, this guy`s been cited before? What did he do last time?

FREIMAN: He was cited in the past, but he`s also been cited for this. He`s facing a fine of $366. He doesn`t even have to show up to court for

that.

GRACE: I`m not quite sure why is this is unregulated. You`re seeing Youtube video of the escaped king cobra owner, Mike Kennedy. Unleash the

lawyers, Alex Sanchez, Robin Ficker, also with me psychologist, Dr. Caryn Stark. Caryn, what thrill do you get out of keeping a giant snake in a box

in your garage?

STARK: Nancy, there are people that are really -- I know it`s hard for you to believe, because most people have phobias about, snakes in

particular, but there are people who really enjoy having those kind of reptiles around.

GRACE: And Dr. Devi, what does the poison do? And you know that we are currently facing a shortage of anti-venom.

NAMPIAPARAMPIL: The venom itself is a neurotoxin. It attacks the nerves and can kill you that way. The problem is, like you said, there`s a

shortage of anti-venom. And even for hospitals that have it, they may not be ready to use it immediately, because it`s not something that`s a common

problem.

GRACE: It`s deadly. If this snake bites a kid in that neighborhood, is it deadly?

NAMPIAPARAMPIL: Not immediately. It could be. But if the kid pulls the snake off and tries to get away, he or she has a better chance of

survival, because the snake might be scared and try to retreat itself. Sometimes it uses its venom, it spits it into human`s eyes to basically

stun them so it can get away itself.

GRACE: I never heard that. Dr. Grey Stafford, that`s a first for me. Is this snake`s venom deadly?

STAFFORD: The venom certainly is deadly, if injected in sufficient amount. And it would be very painful as well. That`s why -- Nancy, I`ve

been doing this 25 years -- I`m not even qualified to handle an animal like this. People should stay away from this and call authorities.

GRACE: You`ve been doing this 25 years and you can`t handle a king cobra?

STAFFORD: Well, I just don`t have experience at it. So you probably don`t want me on the front line.

GRACE: You know what, Dr. Grey Stafford, if you can`t handle a king cobra, then who can? There are six neighborhood schools around that house

that have been in lockdown. The children can`t go on the playground. Tip line is 888-404-3922.

Let`s remember American hero, Marine Lance Corporal, Robert Moscillo. 21, Salem, New Hampshire. Purple Heart, Combat Action Ribbon, National

Defense Service Medal, wanted to go to college and become a pastor. An interstate bridge dedicated in his honor. Parents, Donna and Frank, five

siblings. Robert Moscillo, American hero.

And tonight I want to share this picture with you, remember when Lucy was born? She just became a brownie. And happy birthday to our beautiful

friend, Caryn Stark. Isn`t she beautiful? Thanks to all my guests, but especially to you, for inviting all of us into your home. I`m Nancy Grace

signing off. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern, and until then, good night, friend.

END