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Nancy Grace
My Children Are Trying to Kill Me. Aired 8-9:00p ET
Aired September 15, 2015 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live. "My children are trying to kill me" -- the dramatic 911 call a mother makes as her two
beloved sons try to kill her and their father by poisoning their dinner, stabbing, shooting and burning them up.
Bombshell tonight. We obtain the chilling 911 call.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s a frantic call for help from Yvonne Ervin, a mother who says she and her husband, Zachary, were attacked by their own
sons.
YVONNE ERVIN, MOTHER: Yes, please send someone to my house. My children are trying to kill me.
911 OPERATOR: OK, what do you mean that your children are trying to kill you?
ERVIN: They`ve attacked me and my husband.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And live to Poconos, a teen boy literally hazed to death by fraternity brothers in the brutal "glass ceiling" so-called game.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Investigators say Dang (ph) he was blindfolded, made to carry 20 pounds of sand in a backpack outside in the cold while
repeatedly being attacked by other members of the Pi Delta Phi (ph) fraternity.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Three clear impacts to the head, a massive bruise to the back.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Dang was knocked unconscious and later died.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, imagine shopping at your local grocery store when, suddenly, you spot a man lurking in your aisle. And then you realize
he`s videotaping an upskirt, up your skirt. Well, tonight, this perv busted on video! We have the video.
Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace, and I want to thank you for being with us tonight. Bombshell tonight. "My children are trying to kill me" -- the
dramatic 911 call a mother makes as her two beloved sons try to kill her and their father -- catch this -- by poisoning their dinner, stabbing them,
shooting them, and ultimately burning them up.
Bombshell tonight. We obtain that 911 call. What does it reveal? Let`s listen to 911. Listen to Mom.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: Gwinnett County 911. What`s the location of the emergency?
YVONNE ERVIN, MOTHER: Yes, please send someone to my house. My children are trying to kill me.
911 OPERATOR: OK, what do you mean that your children are trying to kill you?
ERVIN: They`ve attacked me and my husband. They drugged us with Xanax. They`ve attacked us, and they`re trying to kill us.
911 OPERATOR: OK (INAUDIBLE)
ERVIN: My husband has distracted them, and I was just able to get to the phone. Please hurry.
911 OPERATOR: Please stay on the phone with me, OK?
ERVIN: Please.
911 OPERATOR: Now, you said your husband has restrained them?
ERVIN: Please. He distracted them so I could get to the phone. Please, please hurry. Please.
911 OPERATOR: Just stay on the phone with me. How old are your children?
ERVIN: They`re 22 and 17.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Scott Kimbler, reporter, newsradio 106.7, I`m overwhelmed because you know what the neighbors said, what the neighbors got back to us
with, is these two boys were given everything you could possibly be given. If anything, they were spoiled. They were never mistreated. They were the
apples of Mommy and Daddy`s eyes. The parents lived for these two, 17 and 22.
Just take a look at that house. I can`t really make anything out from that, it`s so blurry. But I want to see their home. Look at this place.
They had their children living there. They gave them everything they wanted. Scott Kimbler, what went wrong?
SCOTT KIMBLER, NEWS RADIO 106.7 (via telephone): Well, from what we`ve understood from what the police have told us, these two -- the
initial plot that we understand was to drug the parents and then burn down the house. And we understand that the possible motive, based on statements
from one of the kids -- and they won`t tell us which one -- had said that they had a bad home life and that they were trying to...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: A bad home life?
KIMBLER: ... very different story of the family.
GRACE: A bad home life? OK, hold on! That`s not what the neighbors and people close to the family tell us. Look inside this house. Mom and
Dad worked their behinds off to provide everything from these boys, age 17 and 22. Well, they`re not boys anymore. They`re grown men, 17 and 22.
I want to go back into the house just for a moment, Liz, if you don`t mind. This mother and father have worked their whole lives to give this
home to their children. They worked like dogs to get the children through school. They urged them to go to college. They even worked from home to
try to give their two sons everything.
Candace Trunzo joining me, along with Scott Kimbler, Candace senior news editor Dailymail.com.
[20:05:05]I`m a little overwhelmed because I know from a fact, having heard from neighbors in this upscale neighborhood, that these parents bent
over backwards to do everything for their sons. It reminds me a lot of Kyle -- of Lyle and -- what`s the other...
CANDACE TRUNZO, DAILYMAIL.COM (via telephone): The Menendez brothers, yes.
GRACE: The Menendez brothers, yes -- Erik, that was his name -- where the parents just work, work, work to try to do everything, and then they
repay all that love by killing their parents.
What -- how did these two -- these two, Cameron and Christopher, attack their parents. What did they do, Candace?
TRUNZO: Well, they cooked up a plan where they drugged -- first of all, they decided that they were going to make their parents dinner. Now,
immediately, the mom was suspect about this because they had never done anything like this before, Nancy. And then they drugged the parents`
cocktails with Xanax.
And when the parents were sleeping, they cut the gas line to the fireplace. They put a candle in the fireplace. They stepped outside,
thinking that the house would blow up. When it didn`t, they went back inside. They took a shotgun. They beat their father, stabbed their
father, and then beat their mother, as well.
GRACE: I can`t even imagine raising a hand to my parents after they put me through school, helped me get through law school!
Guys, you`ve got to hear this 911 call. This is the mother trying to save her life and her husband`s life after she has been attacked by her own
sons. Listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: How did they try and kill you, ma`am?
ERVIN: They`re trying to strangle us and shoot us. And they put Xanax in our food, and (INAUDIBLE) when they thought we were asleep, they
tried to attack us. They beat me up. They beat him up. They`re trying to kill us. Please, please, please hurry.
911 OPERATOR: OK. Your children are 17 and 22?
ERVIN: Yes.
911 OPERATOR: OK.
ERVIN: Please hurry. Oh, please hurry.
911 OPERATOR: OK. And where are they at now, ma`am?
ERVIN: They`re in the house. They`re trying to attack my husband. He`s made it to the garage and he`s trying to blow the horn to distract --
get our neighbors` attention. And I was able to get up to the phone and call you. But please hurry.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Oh, my stars! Do you hear the mother saying, They`re in the house. My husband has been stabbed. He`s been beaten. And he`s made it
to the garage. He`s trying to blow the horn to try to get the neighbors` attention, and the two sons are still in the house, trying to kill the
parents!
With me right now, in addition to Scott Kimbler and Candace Trunzo, special guest, very well known throughout his area as an excellent trial
lawyer, the Gwinnett County elected district attorney Danny Porter. Danny, thank you for being with us.
DANNY PORTER, GWINNETT COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY (via telephone): Sure, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m great. It`s good to hear your voice again, Danny.
Danny...
PORTER: Yes?
GRACE: ... what -- what is this business I`m hearing now from the reporters -- this is not what the neighbors say -- that these two young
men, 17 and 22, had a troubled home? Because that`s not what the neighbors tell us.
PORTER: Well, I think the misunderstanding is, is that`s what they said in their statement. Now, the truth of it is that they didn`t. I
think -- I think probably the thing that`s closest to the truth is they didn`t like the rules of the house. They didn`t like the idea that they
had to get -- particularly the 22-year-old, had to get a job or pay rent or -- so that might have been their perception of a bad childhood, but I don`t
think by any objective standard they had...
GRACE: OK, because that`s scaring me, Danny Porter, because you know about my twins, all right? And I would do anything, anything to give them
whatever I didn`t have or to make their life easier.
And all the neighbors are saying these two had it made. Their parents would bend over backwards to give them what they wanted, to help them
through school, to help them do sports and all that.
So are you saying, Danny, that the parents were laying down rules for...
PORTER: Well, according -- according to what our investigation has revealed, apparently, there -- there was sort of a beginning of the end of
the patience. You know, for instance, the older son had -- had -- had messed up a football scholarship and had returned home, and then he had
tried to get into the military and somehow failed at that. And so his parents were starting to go, You`re 22, you`ve got to start to stand on
your own two feet.
GRACE: Wait a minute. Wait a minute. I didn`t know that the older one, Christopher Ervin, had gotten a football scholarship and messed that
up?
PORTER: Apparently, he had -- he had -- he had not succeeded at that, and then he went into the military and had not succeed at that.
[20:10:03]So I think what they are doing is probably what a lot of parents do is they basically say at some point, You`ve got to go out of the
nest. Or if you`re going to stay here, you have to pay rent or you have to have a job or you have to be doing something productive.
GRACE: Well, you`ve got to do something other than lay on the sofa and watch TV and eat Cheetohs all day long. So what`s amazing is that the
parents, no matter what they have done to try to help their children succeed, then this -- I mean, Danny -- with me, the elected DA of Gwinnett
County -- how many ways can you kill somebody?
Apparently, the mom says they offered to cook them dinner and that right there, she knew something was very wrong with that. So there`s...
PORTER: Yes, apparently...
GRACE: ... allegations of -- oh, my goodness! There`s the mom with black eyes. This is after she gets out of the hospital.
How many ways did they try to kill the parents, Danny, according to the accusations?
PORTER: Well, at this point in the investigation, the warrants charge that, initially, what they did, apparently, from the what statement, from
the physical evidence, is that they drugged -- they cooked their parents dinner and they drugged the dinner.
And the parents then left the house and went actually to a high school football game, where they began to feel sick. So they went home and fell
asleep. And then the young men went into the house and turned on the gas in the fireplace and lit a candle. Now, that was probably a plan that was
destined to fail because there`s so many ways that the gas could have escaped.
But they waited in the cul-de-sac for approximately two hours. And when the house didn`t blow up, they went into the house and they actually
used the shotgun as an impact weapon against the mother.
GRACE: Oh, my stars! Oh, my stars, Danny!
PORTER: And then they started to fight with the father and ended up stabbing him. And then they tried to strangle them or asphyxiate them
using plastic grocery bags.
GRACE: Danny, you know what? I`m glad I don`t have to read -- you know how very often, the prosecutor has to read the indictment to the jury
to kick the case of in voir dire. I`m glad I`m not reading that indictment about what these two did to their parents.
Guys, I want you to hear what we have just obtained, in addition to joining us, Danny Porter, the elected DA in Gwinnett County. There`s the
mom that calls 911 as her two sons she sacrificed everything for try to murder her. Listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
ERVIN: Can you send someone out as quick as possible, please?
911 OPERATOR: They`re on their way, ma`am, OK? (INAUDIBLE) Are you in your room?
ERVIN: Yes, I am, but I don`t know if they`re going to find me.
911 OPERATOR: What room are you in?
ERVIN: In my top upstairs bedroom.
911 OPERATOR: And the children are still in the garage?
ERVIN: Yes. They`re trying to attack my husband. I don`t know if (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: (INAUDIBLE)
ERVIN: We have a shotgun and pistol in the house. And I can`t find my pistol, so I`m assuming they`ve taken it. And they have his shotgun.
So I don`t know if they`re going to plan on shooting him or not. But please, please hurry.
911 OPERATOR: OK. You`re not sure (INAUDIBLE) at the time?
ERVIN: Yes, I`m sure it was. (INAUDIBLE) he`s in the garage when he was able to distract them, and I was able to get upstairs to the phone.
The other phone has been unplugged.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:18:08]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The parents were allegedly drugged with Xanax during dinner drinks.
ERVIN: They drugged us with Xanax (INAUDIBLE) they`ve attacked us, and they`re trying to kill us. And I can`t find my pistol, so I`m assuming
they`ve taken it. And they have his shotgun. So I don`t know if they`re going to plan on shooting him or not, but please, please hurry.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That is 911 call sound that we have obtained of a mother, the two sons that she has raised her whole life -- she and her husband worked
their whole life to give them everything they needed. And now this. It seems as if they tried every which way there was to kill their mother and
father.
Listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: Ma`am, (INAUDIBLE) attacked you while you`re sleeping?
ERVIN: Yes just said -- yes (INAUDIBLE) They just -- I don`t know -- they -- they just -- I don`t know what`s going on.
911 OPERATOR: Say it again, Ma`am? I can hardly (INAUDIBLE)
ERVIN: I said I don`t know why they`ve done this. I really don`t. I guess they (INAUDIBLE) they want the insurance money. I`m not sure.
911 OPERATOR: OK. And do you see your husband now, ma`am?
ERVIN: No, I don`t. All I know is he`s in the garage. He was screaming. He was trying to blow the horn, just get attention to,
hopefully, our neighbors.
911 OPERATOR: OK.
ERVIN: But please, please hurry. Please.
911 OPERATOR: They`re on their way, ma`am. I need you (INAUDIBLE) have you locked your door? (INAUDIBLE) door?
ERVIN: Yes, but they`ll probably be able to get in.
911 OPERATOR: OK. But make sure you lock the door, OK?
ERVIN: OK. I will.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: And to Candace Trunzo, senior news editor at Dailynews.com. When police arrived, this beautiful -- will you show them the inside of the
home again, Liz, please? This beautiful home just bloody, torn apart.
[20:20:00]And the -- from what I`m understanding from Danny Porter, the elected DA, they tried to -- they drugged the parents. They offered to
make them dinner. They put drugs in their food, and tried to blow the home up. When that didn`t work, they resorted to beating the mother, trying to
beat her dead with a gun and stabbing the father, and the whole home totally destroyed.
TRUNZO: There was furniture everywhere. Everything was askew. Everything was bloody because they used that rifle, that shotgun, on both
the parents, so there was blood everywhere.
The dad was in very, very bad shape. He was in critical condition. He was in the hospital for over a week, and the mom was for, you know, a
few days. And you know, they found that bloody shotgun on a bed in the basement. There was a bedroom down in the basement. It was a just
horrific scene.
GRACE: Awful. Awful! Unleash the lawyers. Joining me out of D.C., Robin Ficker, out of Miami, defense attorney Marla Chicotsky.
All right, Robin Ficker, what`s your best defense?
ROBIN FICKER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Prosecutors Danny and Nancy, you remind me of the blind man who`s feeling the elephant`s leg...
GRACE: Really?
FICKER: ... and thinks he`s feeling...
GRACE: Is that what I remind you of?
FICKER: ... a tree in the forest. One of these kids...
GRACE: An elephant`s leg?
FICKER: ... was talking about killing his parents at age 11. We need to talk to the teachers, clergy, counselors that have talked to these kids
about years of abuse.
GRACE: Years of abuse. What abuse is that, Robin Ficker? Name one thing they did to abuse their children besides saying, Get up off the sofa
and go to work?
FICKER: People don`t try to kill their parents ordinarily.
GRACE: Really?
FICKER: We don`t know what it is, but it is there. Look at the history, Nancy Grace. Look beneath the covers...
GRACE: Now, how do you know that it`s there?
FICKER: ... in this case.
GRACE: Because you want it to be there?
FICKER: I know what`s there because this is so unusual. It doesn`t happen in ordinary life. Something has happened to these kids. They`ve
been seriously abused.
GRACE: Well, you know what? Put them up, please!
Marla Chicotsky, I agree with Robin Ficker in that it doesn`t normally happen. Parenticide -- parricide, matricide -- is very unusual. But that
doesn`t mean that these guys are insane or that they have been abused. It doesn`t mean that at all.
And as a matter of fact, when I pressed Mr. Ficker, he can name no particular instance of abuse. Can you? Do you guys know something that I
don`t know?
MARLA CHICOTSKY, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No. The preliminary hearing was waived. If I were their attorneys, I would immediately ask for a mental
health evaluation...
(CROSSTALK)
CHICOTSKY: ... so we can at least explore if that is the case.
GRACE: Put them up, please! Put them up, please.
CHICOTSKY: Yes. I think...
GRACE: So let -- let me understand this, Robin Ficker and Marla Chicotsky. The 17-year-old that goes all the way through his school his
parents put him in, normal school, good grades, plays sports -- you`re saying he`s mentally ill.
And you`re saying the other guy that goes away on scholarship to college, and I guess I don`t know what happened there, flunked out, I
guess, comes back home, gets accepted into the military, messes that up, from what I understand -- you`re telling me they`re insane, right? Is that
what you`re saying, Ficker?
FICKER: Kids don`t talk about or think about killing their parents at age 11 unless they`re hurt or abused. That`s the history in this case.
This is just the recent eruption of the hard feelings that have developed over a long period of time.
GRACE: OK, you know what? Let`s go to the source. Danny Porter, the elected DA, you`ve read -- you`ve investigated this. There they are on
vacation with Mommy and Daddy at the beach. Here they are at graduation. Look. No, no, no. They`re on another trip. They`re on another trip.
There they are. That`s River Street in Savannah. Yes, they`re on one vacation after the next with the parents.
So Danny Porter, what`s this business about abuse?
PORTER: Well, there`s no -- I mean, there`s no evidence of abuse. There`s no -- you got to remember that the only evidence of this comes from
the statements of the defendants. And you know, there`s no evidence that he had been planning it since he was 11. If he had been, it`s the worst
plan in the world.
And so it -- I just -- I`m not (ph) willing to engage in a debate about the merits of the case, but there`s no evidence in this investigation
of any abuse anywhere along the line.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
[20:28:28]911 OPERATOR: You felt the children (INAUDIBLE) asleep.
(CROSSTALK)
ERVIN: I heard them say that they put Xanax in our drinks.
911 OPERATOR: (INAUDIBLE)
ERVIN: That`s why we were so sleepy. We didn`t understand why we were so sleepy, but that`s why.
911 OPERATOR: How do you know it was Xanax? Did they...
ERVIN: Because that`s what they said after they started attacking us. That`s what they said.
911 OPERATOR: OK.
ERVIN: Please, please hurry. Please.
911 OPERATOR: All right. They`re on their way, OK?
ERVIN: OK.
911 OPERATOR: (INAUDIBLE) stay on the phone with you, ma`am?
ERVIN: Sure, you can. I`m going to try to lock my bedroom door.
911 OPERATOR: Yes. I want you to lock your door, OK?
ERVIN: They just -- I just heard them say, Where did Mom go. They`re headed upstairs now. Oh! Oh!
911 OPERATOR: Hello?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s on their way. It`s on their way.
911 OPERATOR: Hello? Hello? Hello, Yvonne? Hello? Hello, Miss Yvonne? Hello?
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Oh, my stars! Scott Kimbler, newsradio 106.7, you hear the mother scream, and then the phone goes dead. That`s where they find her
and continue the attack on her, according to police documents. So Scott Kimbler, did you notice how calm the 911 dispatch is? Like, OK, lock your
door. And the whole time, they`re in the house looking for her to kill her!
SCOTT KIMBLER, REPORTER, NEWS RADIO 106.7: The 911 dispatchers, especially in Gwinnett County, they do a very good job of the dispatchers
being able to keep their calm in these situations. I have understood from reading up on this and doing research that that is designed to cause a
calming effect with the person, even though she`s under a very strenuous circumstance. It seems to help in some way, especially psychologically
that they are able to remain calm during this while the other person is frantic.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:35:18] GRACE: Live to Poconos, a teen boy literally hazed to death by a fraternity brothers in the brutal glass ceilings so-called
"game."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hazing turned deadly. A pledge was blindfolded and forced to carry a 20 pound bag of sand.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: While other fraternity members tried to tackle him according to the district attorney.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Suffering significant blunt force trauma to his body.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would be brothers never called an ambulance.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Never called an ambulance. Isn`t it true Solomon Jones, Morning host WURD, isn`t it true, Solomon, that they attacked this boy,
according to police, and some sort of hazing ritual called the glass ceiling. And not only do they not call 911 when the boy had been comatose,
unconscious for a long period of time, they called the president of their national fraternity and go, uh-oh, what do we do. They don`t call 911,
they tried to cover it up.
SOLOMON JONES, MORNING HOST, WURD (on the phone): Apparently they tried to tackle the pledge while he`s carrying a 30 pound backpack on his
back while he`s blindfolded, he can`t see any of this stuff coming. They`re drowning to the ground. And when he`s unconscious, you`re right,
they call the national president of the fraternity. Rather than him telling them to go and get help, he told them to hide the fraternity items
that were in that rented house they were in.
GRACE: You know what, Solomon. Again, thank you for being with us. Solomon, Morning host of WURD. These fraternity boys, as they are called,
they are not boys. They are up in their 20s. Now, what is the glass ceiling hazing game? What is has?
JONES: So the glass ceiling hazing game, it almost reminds me of a gang ritual. Right? He has to go through this line of young men while
he`s carrying a backpack -- he`s weighted down with a 30-pound backpack. And he`s blindfolded. And somebody at the end of that line is calling his
name. He had to navigate his way through this line while they are calling his name. But they are tackling him, they are punching him, they are
picking him up and throwing him down, and something that they call spearing and they are really assaulting him. They called it multiple assaults. And
eventually, he is knocked unconscious and complains of his head hurting and then just things just go south from there.
GRACE: You know, when I look at this teen boy, with me right now, in addition to Solomon Jones and Stacey Newman is Doug Fierberg, the lawyer
for this young boy. When I look at him, Doug, you know what I see? I see my son. He`s almost eight right now. But one day I hope he and his sister
go to college, and I hope they think they have found friends the way Michael did, this young boy trying to fit in. How many of us try to fit in
in college. And look what happened. What did they allegedly do to Michael?
DOUG FIERBERG, FAMILY ATTORNEY FOR HAZING DEATH VICTIM: Well, you know, they beat Michael and caused him serious head trauma. The coroner
identifies at least three serious traumas to his head causing a dramatic brain injury. And not only do they not call the police or 911 or
immediately take him to the hospital, they actually removed his clothing and changed him so that when he would be taken to a hospital or discovered,
it wouldn`t have any connection to this fraternity. Just absolutely outrageous.
GRACE: So when you say they changed his clothes, you mean they took off his fraternity shirt or whatever he had on that would link him back to
the fraternity?
FIERBERG: Yes. As far as we understand right now from the report that came out from the police they changed his clothes which likely
included fraternity paraphernalia, like a shirt or maybe a pin or something like that. They changed his clothes while the individual was absolutely in
need of emergency care. And we`ve seen this in casing cases before. Where fraternity members now aware of something traumatic has happened first seek
change in the scene before the police can come upon it.
GRACE: With me, in New York is Alexandra Robbins, author of "Pledge, Secret Life of Sororities." Alexandra, what do you make of this?
ALEXANDRA ROBBINS, AUTHOR, "PLEDGE, SECRET LIFE OF SORORITIES" (voice- over): Well, what`s been said, this is not the first time a fraternity has allegedly covered up. A recent death of a Clemson fraternity pledge,
apparently fraternity brothers were also encourage to cover up evidence looking the fraternity to the incident. A major problem with great groups
is their emphasis on image, which is why they do this. They are so concerned with how the group looks to outsiders and so concerned with
avoiding negative press that they don`t pay enough attention to the substance of the groups and they don`t pay any attention to, enough
attention to important things like for example the health of a dying 19- year-old when they`re seem to be more concerned about the image of the fraternity. It`s not an unusual focus for a group.
[20:40:33] GRACE: Hmm. Awful. Stacy Newman also on the story. This is a very well-known college. And this fraternity had a reputation having
very, very good grades and going on to choice jobs when they got out of school. What do we know about Michael himself?
STACY NEWMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, we know he came from a very prestigious high school, that specialized in Science, he had his whole life
in front of him. And Nancy, this fraternity, one of the things they were known for is their community service especially in the Asian-American
community.
GRACE: Okay. I hear in my ear, Stacy, Robin Ficker is champing at the bit. All right, Ficker, you and Chicotsky, jump in. First to you,
Robin Thicker.
ROBIN FICKER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Child`s play. I went to West Point. We used to have to shave 50 times, carry 200 pound classmates up five
stories, sweat a grapefruit on the wall just by perspiring. This is child`s play. The kid accidentally fell back, hit his head. These
fraternity guys are innocent as the pure driven snow.
GRACE: Okay. Hold on. Dr. Bill Manion joining me, forensic pathologist, you reviewed the evidence. It doesn`t sound to me like he
fell and hit his head once. In fact, there were many spots on his body where he was beaten brutally. Dr. Manion?
DR. BILL MANION, M.D.: That`s correct. The autopsy reported blunt force trauma to the head and that usually results in subarachnoid
hemorrhage or a brain contusion, swells and the blood can`t get into the brain and keep it alive. So, he was brain dead by the time he got to the
hospital.
GRACE: Do you mind putting up the medical examiner information one more time, please. Back to you Ficker, three clear impacts to the head,
please lay that up. A massive bruises to the back from repeated blunt force impact, bruises on the side from blunt force impact or restraint.
Cause of death. Multiple traumatic injuries, delay in treatment contributed to death. But your theory, Ficker, three clear impacts to the
head. So, let me understand. You`re saying, he fell. What did he fall and bounce off and hit back again several times? How did that work?
FICKER: So, they are trying to charge 30 guys with this death?
GRACE: No, I want to go back to what you said, that he fell on his head, with all of those injuries.
FICKER: He fell backwards because he was touched in some way by some of these 30 guys and they are charging them all. Maybe one person hit
them. Maybe one did. They don`t even know who it was.
GRACE: Solomon Jones, WURD, one person did not do this. Everybody that stood around his dying body as they took off his fraternity jersey so
there would be no connection is responsible. Every person that was there and did not call 911 is responsible. Everybody along that gauntlet is
responsible Solomon Jones. What happens? What do police say happened that night?
JONES: So, what police said was that he had a 30-pound backpack strapped to his back, that he was blindfolded and that they were out in the
snow. So, you can imagine there, in the Poconos out in the snow, it`s called, the ground is hard, and he`s trying to run this gauntlet to this
voice that is calling to him in the distance while, you know, a number of people are tackling him. The forensic pathologist that looked at it said
he had bruises on his thighs, he had bruises on his torso, he had bruises on his head, and that the force with which he must have been thrown down in
order to get the types of brain injuries that he had, had to be hundreds of pounds of force. This is not somebody just touching him and him falling
back. This is multiple assaults.
GRACE: Well, this is at Baruch College. Dr. Ish Major, psychiatrist, why do people stand around and watch this or take part in it when they know
it`s wrong?
DR. ISH MAJOR, M.D., PSYCHIATRIST: Well, Nancy, this is the Salem witch-hunt mentality. This is group socialization, group thinking gone
horribly wrong, Nancy. Most of us make decisions based on a peer group, and that is magnified to the umpth degree. Where you have an isolated
group of young adults on a college campus further isolated with their particular fraternity that they are pledging. We`ve got extraordinary
circumstances, unchecked behavior, irrational actions. Had they been acting individually, I`m sure they would have had better intention between
right and wrong.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:49:10] GRACE: Imagine shopping at your local grocery store when suddenly you spot a man lurking in your aisle and you realize he is
videotaping an up skirt. Up your skirt. Tonight, this perv busted on video. We have the video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A woman shopping for groceries got the surprise of her life when she suddenly realized that a fellow shopper was trying to use
his cell phone to shoot up her skirt.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Okay. Michael Christian on the story. How did the woman not notice? But you can see obviously she did not notice. This guy is so
bold. He comes right up basically goes up her skirt as she`s standing to the side. What happened, Michael?
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Nancy, it`s stunning to me how brazen he is. What happened was he crouched down, as we can see. He
puts the phone literally up her skirt. And apparently as he pulled it back, he either grazed her leg, the inside of her leg with the phone or
with his hands and that`s when she jumps and realizes something is going on.
GRACE: And also, the lady standing beside her doesn`t notice either. So, did they catch the guy, Michael?
CHRISTIAN: They did not. And that`s why police have released this video. Because they are asking for the public`s help to identify this guy.
GRACE: Well, another thing, Michael, you can tell this is not his first time at the rodeo. Let`s start it at the beginning. He is a white
male, age 25 to 35, weighs about 150 pounds. Okay. I want to see him walk up to the lady, if we can roll that back. Because he shows -- he doesn`t
hesitate at all. He walks straight up, check it out in real time. Bends over. Oh, yes, there you go. She obviously feels his hand as he withdraws
the cell phone. And there he goes. I guess looking for his next victim. What do we know about him, Michael?
CHRISTIAN: We know that this was in an Asian food store. We know that as you say, it looks like he has done this before. It looks like he
is experienced. The thing is, he probably will be doing this again until somebody catches him.
He`s probably doing it right now, Michael. Unleash the lawyers, Ficker and Chicotsky. All right, Marla Chicotsky, you see it on video.
And I want to hear what possible defense you two have.
MARLA CHICOTSKY, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I mean, the defense is that -- oh, excuse me.
GRACE: Go ahead, please.
CHICOTSKY: The defense would be that -- okay, that there is some sort of disorder, it doesn`t mean that he is going to get away with it.
GRACE: All right. A disorder.
CHICOTSKY: There`s clearly some sort of reason --
GRACE: I heard you. I heard you. Robin Ficker, a disorder. Disorder, some vague disorder. I would call that a sexual predator. I
mean, the most likely what he is going to see is the lady`s underwear, most likely. But what`s your defense other than a vague disorder that you can`t
put your finger on?
FICKER: You don`t know that he actually took a picture. We don`t have the picture. She`s in public. She`s not in a dressing room or a
bathroom where you would have a reasonable expectation of privacy down the blouse up to skirt, she`s in public.
GRACE: Are you telling me that because she`s in the grocery store, what you`re doing is you are blurring the lines between the law and
reality. What you are trying to argue is a reasonable expectation of privacy. And when you are in the public, you don`t have an expectation of
privacy. And what can be seen by the common, naked eye. That does not mean up your clothes or down your shirt. That`s not the meaning of that
legal term, Robin.
FICKER: The Massachusetts Supreme Court has ruled that this is perfectly acceptable activity.
GRACE: No, they have not.
FICKER: The law does not address this.
GRACE: They have not ruled that taking a picture up a lady`s skirt is okay. They ruled it taking pictures in public is okay. But not up a
lady`s skirt.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:57:22] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A woman shopping for groceries got the surprise of her life when she suddenly realized that a fellow shopper was
trying to use his cell phone to shoot up her skirt. The act was caught on store surveillance video. But despite the fact that police have the tape,
they haven`t been able to identify the suspect. So, now authorities are asking for the public`s help identifying this man who is believed to be
about 25 to 35 years old, 150 pounds and with red hair. Is it someone you know?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Dr. Ish Major, psychiatrist, author of "Little White Whys." Dr. Ish, question, is the thrill looking at the picture you have taken or
is the thrill taking the picture and getting caught or not getting caught? I mean, what do you get from a close-up shot of lady`s underwear?
MAJOR: Well, Nancy, I think the answer is both. We`ve got a high tech peeping thumb here, right? Clearly, he has some type of sexual
paraphilia, some sexually deviant behavior. He can`t stop it. My guess is that some sort of voyeurism where he is getting some type of gratification
from watching, from looking. And the more intimate the better.
GRACE: Okay. Tip line, 866-876-5423.
Let`s remember American hero Army Sergeant Jose Gomez, just 23, Corona, New York. Second tour, Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Army
Commendation Medal. Lost his first fiancee who served in Iraq. Parents, Maria and Felix, brother, Severino, fiancee, Marie. Jose Gomez, American
hero. And Happy Birthday Donna, one of the sweetest people we know, married to Steve. Mom of twin boys and two golden labs. And tonight, we
ask for your prayers and good thoughts for our friend Erin Dechara (ph) fighting leukemia at MD Anderson. A bone marrow donor located. She`s
undergoing the bone marrow transplant right now.
And it`s National Neonatal Nurses Day. Thank you to all of you nurses who keep our babies alive, especially to the NICU crew at Northside
Hospital in Susan Mason pictured here. Thanks to all our guests but specially you for being with us and inviting us into your home. Nancy
Grace signing off. I will see you tomorrow night at 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
