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Nancy Grace
TV Star`s In-Laws Murdered in Mexico. Suicide Pact Teen Claims She Was Brainwashed; Older Woman Meets with 14-year-old Through Xbox; Father Attempts to Drown His Kids in Lake; "Baywatch" Star Pam Anderson Stalker. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired September 24, 2015 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: Breaking news right now. As we go to air, we learn TV and movie star of "Clueless," "Felicity," "Eve," "Criminal Minds" and
"Sunset Beach" -- bombshell tonight. Her family kidnapped, ransomed and slaughtered at a beach resort in Mexico.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Facing deep pain after the lives of two family members come to a violent end, Landry, who first hit national stardom in a Super
Bowl Doritos commercial, is married to acclaimed filmmaker Alejandro Gomez Monteverde, whose father and brother were reportedly kidnapped. Days
later, their bodies were found.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And live, Fairhaven. "Go ahead and do it. Do it, babe. Why haven`t you done it yet? You haven`t done it? Then get back in your truck
and try again" -- to kill yourself!
These are the tip of the iceberg, just some of the texts honor student Michelle Carter sends her extremely sensitive young boyfriend, Conrad Roy.
Over 1,000 texts, plus e-mails, plus phone calls, she finally convinces the sensitive young high school grad to park his pickup in the local K-Mart
parking lot, turn on the ignition and inhale carbon monoxide deeply until he dies.
But in the last hours, a bizarre twist.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "You`ve just got to do it, babe."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ms. Carter is alleged to have strongly influenced his decision to take his own life.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "You said you were going to do it. Like, I don`t get why you aren`t."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Charged with involuntary manslaughter.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "They read my messages with him. I`m done. I can go to jail."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And live, Janesville, a 34-year-old Wisconsin woman meets a 14- year-old school boy gaming on Xbox, travels to Texas to repeatedly have sex with the boy before whisking him off to Wisconsin. What is a 34-year-old
woman doing on Xbox anyway?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Doherty (ph) used an on-line gaming system to connect with a teenage Texas boy, and their communications became sexual.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I feel like he was misguided.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Doherty traveled to Dallas, picked up the child, and they had sex at a motel.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And "I just drowned my two daughters in a lake," the shocking 911 call when a Raleigh man drowns his little girls in a Durham lake and tells
911 it`s all because no one would, quote, "help" his pedophilia problem.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m just kind of shocked.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please send an ambulance. My daughters are in the lake drowning (INAUDIBLE) 5 and 3 years old.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One kid above water crying, and then I saw another one who was completely submerged in water.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And "Baywatch" bombshell. "Dancing With the Stars" dynamo Pam Anderson just reveals deadly terror of a stalker in her home for days,
spying on her, even wearing her famous red "Baywatch" bathing suit.
Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. As we go to air right now, we learn TV and movie star of "Clueless," "Felicity," "Eve," "Criminal Minds," "Sunset Beach" -- her
family kidnapped, ransomed and slaughtered at a beach resort in Mexico.
Straight out to Alexis Tereszcuk, senior reporter with Radaronline.com. Let`s start with the ransom, the TV star Ali Landry`s family down in Mexico
-- ransom. Did they realize at first there was a ransom, or did they just simply go missing and she doesn`t know what happened?
ALEXIS TERESZCUK, RADARONLINE.COM: They were contacted almost immediately for a huge ransom. And they paid it. They decided that they were going to
trust the kidnappers in order to return this family, these beloved family members to them. But they didn`t pay it all. The only paid them some
because they started to get very suspicious about what these kidnappers were doing with their family members. So they held off...
GRACE: So let me understand this...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... Alexis Tereszcuk, that they find out the family is missing down at a beach resort. You`re seeing video of Miss USA on YouTube. She shoots
to fame after being Miss USA with a Dorito commercial at the Super Bowl, and then her career takes off, TV, movies, the works.
As we go to air tonight, her family missing, discovered kidnapped, ransomed and slaughtered at a beach resort in Mexico.
This is her famous Dorito commercial from YouTube.
[20:05:00]So Alexis, I`m trying to figure out, how did she find out her family members are missing? What, did they contact her, call her? How did
she find out? And do we have any idea tonight how much the ransom was?
I mean, Alexis, this could happen to any of us. How many times did I go diving before the twins came in Cozumel, Cancun, you name it, out on a boat
with people I don`t even know, jump in the water? You know, this could happen to anyone that goes on these trips to Mexico.
So how did she find out?
TERESZCUK: And it actually happened they were kidnapped right outside of the front door of where they were. So the family was contacted. Her
husband -- it`s her father-in-law, her husband`s dad and her husband`s brother -- so they were contacted immediately and told that they were
holding these people.
GRACE: Everybody, you are seeing the TV show "Eve" from UPN network, where she shoots to fame as a TV star after many, many movie parts.
So Stacey Newman, my understanding is that they find out the family is being kidnapped. Ransom request then comes in. They pay a huge chunk --
and I`m trying to find out how much they pay -- huge chunk of ransom money. But then they don`t hear back from the kidnappers.
Oh, you`re seeing the movie "Repli-Kate" from Silver Nitrate Productions.
And then what happens, Stacey?
STACEY NEWMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, listen. First of all, what this ransom money -- what I found is these ransoms can go anywhere
from $10,000 to $200,000. So apparently, these kidnappers reneged on that deal, and two weeks later, the bodies of Ali Landry`s brother-in-law and
father-in-law were found.
Police have also found a car they believe the kidnappers used, and they`re conducting forensic testing on that vehicle.
GRACE: Now, let me understand this. Alexis Tereszcuk, I`m supposed to rely on the Mexican police to solve this? Didn`t they just let El Chapo
out of jail? Didn`t he just escape in a several-miles-long -- the biggest drug dealer in the world has people build miles and miles of tunnel
underneath the jail, and nobody notices? And they`re the ones solving this, Alexis?
TERESZCUK: Well, that`s why this family paid the ransom. They knew that they had nobody that was going to help them. They hoped -- they thought,
Maybe if we give them the money, that they would hold out hope that they would return her dad -- the father-in-law and her brother-in-law alive. So
that`s why they paid the ransom. They didn`t wait for the cops to do any investigating. They may have found the car, but they certainly didn`t find
them alive. So they wanted to get ahead of anything to ensure that they would be returned alive.
GRACE: Everybody, you are seeing the movie "Me Again" from Latigo Pictures (ph).
Take a listen to this star, Ali Landry. You`re seeing Ali Landry, TV and movie star. As we go to air tonight, we learn her family kidnapped from a
beach resort there in Mexico.
Question. Stacey Newman, it`s in Veracruz, correct?
NEWMAN: Yes. The kidnapping actually was in Tampico (ph), and they were on their way to their ranch in Veracruz. That`s where they were murdered.
GRACE: What more do we know about what actually happened, Stacey, the mechanics of it?
NEWMAN: Well, we know that they went missing. They were on their way from Tampico to Veracruz, and somewhere, they were kidnapped. They possibly
could have been trailed before that because these kidnappers tend to follow their victims for a while to build a case on them. Then they attack you.
They take you away.
There was this car that was found. They are doing forensic testing on that vehicle. And the license plate -- this is important. The license plate on
that car is from the same part of town where this kidnapping occurred, so that`s a lead.
GRACE: Everybody, you`re seeing video from Miss Usa and YouTube.
To Dr. Bill Manion, forensic pathologist joining us. Dr. Manion, police are saying -- Mexico police are saying that the bodies had been there,
slaughtered, for several days. How would they know that?
DR. BILL MANION, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST (via telephone): Well, they`ve got decomposition sitting in. The -- usually, the greening of the abdomen is a
good sign that the body`s been there for several days. The bacteria in the abdomen will form a greenish color. And also, you`ll start to get skin
slippage.
So I imagine those were the first signs that they saw, and they figured they`d been dead for several days, at least three or four days.
GRACE: You know, to us, it sounds so foreign. But isn`t it true, Alexis Tereszcuk, Radaronline.com, kidnap for ransom is very common in that area
of Mexico.
TERESZCUK: It absolutely is, and it affects people like Ali`s family that are very well-known. They`re very wealthy. Her husband is a movie
director and so the family`s very well-known in town. But it also happens to everyday people. And it`s a crisis in the country.
[20:10:05]GRACE: Stacy, I`m trying to understand how this all happened. It seems as if what you said earlier is correct, that they had been
studying the movement of Ali Landry`s family because they had just come outside when they were apparently forced into a car.
Then some period of hours after that, she gets the word that kidnapped for ransom. They pay part of the ransom, then they don`t get any proof of
life. Is it true they don`t pay the rest of the ransom, or do we know that? Not that it matters because these people are cold-blooded killers.
But how did that happen?
NEWMAN: Well, yes, we don`t know that they paid the second part of this ransom. But I`m assuming these kidnappers got what they wanted because
that was a huge chunk of change. And then they were going to kill them anyways. And we know they were found with traumatic brain injuries. So
they could have just been beaten and slaughtered to death.
GRACE: You know, another issue, Alexis Tereszcuk, Radaronline.com -- you`re seeing Ali Landry`s famous Dorito commercial from YouTube that
really ignited her career after she was voted Miss USA.
Alexis, we all go to Mexico. And it`s like second -- no one thinks there`s going to be a problem. We`re lulled into the belief that going diving
there, going sight-seeing, going to the beaches there on those all- inclusive resorts, all safe. It`s not. It`s not, Alexis.
TERESZCUK: No, and that`s what this family -- Ali Landry and her husband - - they`re very famous. They have three children. They travel all over the world together. But this is where they live. And this is -- the family
never expected something like this to happen, but which is why they acted so quickly and they immediately paid the ransom in hopes that they could
get them back.
They knew that they couldn`t wait around for an investigation or a sting or a setup by the cops. They had to take action on their own. And that`s why
they gave the money initially.
It wasn`t until they didn`t hear back from the family that they started demanding proof of life and refused to pay the rest of the ransom.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:16:10]GRACE: Live, Fairhaven. "Go ahead and do it. Do it, babe. Why haven`t you done it yet? You haven`t done it? Get back in your truck and
try again" -- to kill yourself.
These are the tip of the iceberg, just some of the texts honor student Michelle Carter sends her extremely sensitive young boyfriend, Conrad Roy.
After over 1,000 texts plus e-mails, plus phone calls, she finally convinces the sensitive high school grad to park his pickup in a local K-
Mart parking lot, turn on the ignition, inhaling carbon monoxide deeply until he dies.
Well, in the last hours, a bizarre twist.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Just park your car and sit there, and it will take, like, 20 minutes. It`s not a big deal."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Roy died of carbon monoxide poisoning in a pickup truck.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She stays on the phone with him to ensure that he`s dead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "And he got scared. And I (EXPLETIVE DELETED) told him to get back in."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Owen Boss, reporter with "The Boston Herald." It`s so bizarre to me that she is claiming she was brainwashed. And so far, one
judge isn`t buying it, claiming that this is absolutely allowed to be tried as homicide by text.
Owen Boss, "Boston Herald," take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Don`t do it in the driveway. You will be easily found. Find a spot."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I don`t know, I`m thinking a public place? If I go somewhere private, they may call cops."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Well then someone will notice you. Do you think you`ll get caught? I mean, it only takes 30 minutes, right? Just park
your car and sit there and it will take, like, 20 minutes. It`s not a big deal."
"Well, I would do the CO. That honestly is the best way. And I know it`s hard to find a tank, so if you could use another car or something, then do
that. But next, I`d try the bag or hanging. Hanging is painless and takes, like, a second if you do it right."
"You can`t think about it. You just have to do it. You said you were going to do it. Like, I don`t get why you aren`t."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I don`t get it, either. I don`t know."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "So I guess you aren`t going to do it then. All that for nothing. I`m just confused. Like, you were so ready and determined."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I`m going to eventually. I really don`t know what I`m waiting for. But I have everything lined up."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "No, you`re not, Conrad. Last night was it. You kept pushing it off and you said you`ll do it, but you never do. It`s
always going to be that way if you don`t take action. You`re just making it harder on yourself by pushing it off. You just have to do it. Do you
want to do it now?"
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "Is it too late? I don`t know. It`s already light outside. I`m going to go back to sleep. Love you. I`ll text you
tomorrow."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "No, it`s probably the best time now because everyone is sleeping. Just go somewhere in your truck, and no one is really out
there right now because it`s an awkward time. If you don`t do it now, you`re never going to do it. And you can say you`ll do it tomorrow, but
you probably won`t. Tonight? Love you."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "Thank you."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "For what? Are you awake?"
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "Yes."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Are you going to do it today?"
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "Yes."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Like, in the daytime?"
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "Should I?"
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "yes, it`s less suspicious. You won`t think about it as much, and you`ll get it over with instead of wait until the night."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "yes, then I will. Like, where? Like, I could go in any enclosed area."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Go in your truck and drive in a parking lot somewhere to a park or something. Do it, like, early. Do it now, like,
early."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "Didn`t we say this was suspicious?"
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "No. I think night is more suspicious, a kid sitting in his car turning on the radio. Just do it. It won`t be suspicious and
it won`t take that long."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:20:06]GRACE: OK. Did you hear that, Owen Boss with "The Boston Herald?"
OWEN BOSS, "BOSTON HERALD" (via telephone): Yes, I did, and I...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... bizarre twist...
BOSS: ... the texts.
GRACE: ... she claims she was brainwashed. What?
BOSS: Right. It is -- it`s a disturbing text message exchange to read. It obviously shows that she went beyond trying to help him with his -- with
his depression and went into badgering him and even, you know, pressuring him and questioning him about why he hadn`t done it yet.
GRACE: Joining me right now, in addition to Owen Boss with "The Boston Herald," is the aunt of the victim, Conrad Roy, a school boy, extremely
sensitive. This was his first real girlfriend. Becki Maki is with us.
Ms. Maki, thank you for being with us.
BECKY MAKI, VICTIM`S AUNT (via telephone: Thank you for having me.
GRACE: Do you remember her showing up at Conrad`s wake?
MAKI: I do. She was at his wake. We had no idea at the time what had transpired between the two. And she offered her condolences to our family
and had sent messages leading up to the wake and the funeral, offering condolences to the family. So we really -- we were shocked when we found
out all of (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: So did that jibe with what you saw of her when she shows up at his wake? It`s almost like she`s a vampire, just waiting for him to kill
himself, egging him on, really talking him into it, and then showing up, standing over his dead body.
Did her demeanor and appearance at the wake jibe with these texts that you`re now learning about?
MAKI: No. I mean, it`s hard to say. It was a really difficult time for all of us. And my memories of seeing her that day is she looked like she
was, you know, in shock. I can`t really recall any other specifics beyond that. It was the first time I had ever met her.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "I just got off the phone with Conrad`s mom about 20 minutes ago, and she told me that detectives had to come to through his
things and stuff. It`s something they have to do with suicides and homicides. And she said they have to go through his phone and see if any
encouraged him to do it on texts and stuff. Sam, they read my messages with him. I`m done. His family will hate me and I can go to jail."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:26:33]UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: According to court documents, Roy drove his truck to this Fairhaven K-Mart with a gas generator, filling it with carbon
monoxide.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "You can also just take a hose and run that from the exhaust pipe to the rear window in your car and seal it with duct tape and
shirts so it can`t escape. You will die within, like, 20 or 30 minutes, all pain-free."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: In the last hours, we learn that this young girl can be charged with homicide by text. And in a bizarre twist, she`s claiming she`s the
one that`s been brainwashed. What is the exact defense, Michael Christian?
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Well, as you say, Nancy, the defense does that say she is brainwashed and that she originally
tried to help Conrad Roy but was brainwashed by him into helping him commit suicide.
And I have to say, there are some texts from early in the relationship that do seem to back that up. There are some texts where he tells her he wants
to commit suicide, and she`s writing things like, "Stop, I don`t want you to do it, I know you won`t. You`re scaring me. You have so much to live
for. I want to help you."
GRACE: Really? Really? Unleash the lawyers, Parag Shah, defense attorney, author of "The Code," and Misty Marris, defense attorney out of
New York.
First to you, Parag Shah. Just springboarding off Michael Christian`s defense that he has relayed to me that earlier, way back when, she sent him
texts trying to talk him out of suicide -- isn`t that a little bit like Scott Peterson saying, Well, look at me, I cut the grass last week. Why
are you looking at the fact that I killed Laci? I cut the grass last week. I`m a good guy.
Who cares if she sent texts two or three months before talking him out of suicide. She knew that he was prone to depression. She knew he was
contemplating suicide. So what good does that do?
PARAG SHAH, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: The big difference here is that these are kids. Kids are irrational. They don`t think through things. They`re
reckless. And context is everything. That shows how she was trying to help him and how someone could be brainwashed.
GRACE: That was months before, Misty Marris. How does that help him when she`s telling him, Hey, if you can`t make it work, just get a generator.
Stick that in your car. That will kill you.
MISTY MARRIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, we`re glossing over these texts, though. It speaks to her intent. It shows that she was trying to help him
at one plant. She was saying, Please don`t do this.
GRACE: That was months before, Misty.
MARRIS: Answer me. He`s saying, The voices in my head want me to do it. At some point, she`s a young, impressionable girl. He continues to say, I
want to do this. I want to take my own life. She begs him not to. And at some point, she acquiesces to his plan.
GRACE: Misty Marris and Parag Shah, that happened months before this concerted effort on her part for him to kill himself. You`re hearing and
reading the texts.
Caryn Stark, her defense is two-pronged. She`s claiming that months before, she tried to talk him out of suicide, and that he is the one that
brainwashed her. Does she sound brainwashed to you?
CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: Nancy, there`s no such thing, really, as brainwashing, to tell you the truth. It`s being debated all the time now
because you can`t really brainwash another person and make them do something that they don`t want to do. So I don`t buy it.
[20:30:01] GRACE: And to Larry Fishelson, technology expert, co-founder of Dynalink Communication.
Larry, how will -- how difficult will it be to reach back in time to get not only texts, but what about instant messages, e-mails, phone messages?
Can it be done?
LARRY FISHELSON, TECHNOLOGY EXPERT: It can be done, Nancy. It`s going to be very simple. Basically what happens is the texts are kept on the
servers by the phone carriers minimally for five years with new Cloud technology more space usually now up to 10 years. They still have it.
GRACE: Wow.
FISHELSON: So they`ll be able to go back through subpoena and get all this information.
GRACE: And Becki Maki, the defense that this girl was brainwashed, she doesn`t sound brainwashed to me.
MAKI: No, I don`t buy it either. It doesn`t make any sense to me. I agree with your analogy. You know, if somebody stumbles and they fall, and
you help them up a few days or months before, that doesn`t give you permission to push them off a cliff later on. It just -- I don`t buy it.
GRACE: Owen Boss, reporter with the "Boston Herald," so the judge is saying this case can go forward based on homicide by text.
OWEN BOSS, REPORTER, BOSTON HERALD: That`s right.
GRACE: Is she --
BOSS: He`s ruled that there is enough evidence to charge her with involuntary manslaughter. The thing they`re going to have to prove is
whether or not it was her reckless conduct that directly led to his death and because she wasn`t there at the time, it`s going to be hard to put her
at the scene of the crime beyond being on the phone and via text message.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:35:39] GRACE: Live Janesville, a 34-year-old Wisconsin woman meets a 14-year-old schoolboy gaming on Xbox, travels to Texas to repeatedly have
sex with the boy before whisking him away to Wisconsin.
What is a 34-year-old woman doing on Xbox anyway?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: In a legal tryst happening in their midst.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was just standing there waiting for her to unlock the door and then they went upstairs.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A sexual rendezvous was planned. The boy rejected using condoms, prompting Dougherty to ask, "Even at 15 you want a family
still?"
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK. Let`s me understand this.
Robyn Walensky, senior news anchor with "The Blaze." Robyn, so this is a 34-year-old woman, and she is what, playing Xbox at night? She`s in
Wisconsin, she`s playing with some kid in Garland, Texas?
ROBYN WALENSKY, ANCHOR/REPORTER, THE BLAZE: Nancy, this woman is 34 years old, 20 years older than this kid. She`s reportedly married or so it says
on Facebook. She might even have kids of her own and here she is calling him baby, you`re cute, you`re beautiful, I want to do this to you, I want
to do that, and then it escalates from there.
GRACE: OK, Robyn Walensky, joining me from "The Blaze." What did you say about her on Facebook?
WALENSKY: Well reportedly she might have a husband of her own, possibly someone her own age. Why would you be picking on a 14-year-old to engage
in some sort of love tryst, and the police in Dallas are having none of it. She is locked up after a reported three encounters.
GRACE: OK. When you say encounters, what are you saying, sex?
WALENSKY: Yes. Apparently back in August --
GRACE: OK. Yes, well, we don`t call that encounters, Robyn Walensky. We call that child molestation. So --
WALENSKY: Yes. It is a crime when you are a minor under 18 years old. You`re correct on that.
GRACE: OK. Let me understand something.
WALENSKY: She comes to Dallas --
GRACE: Go ahead.
WALENSKY: And they`re in a Super 8 motel. A month later, they`re in Windom, in Richardson, Texas. And then it escalates from there. And she
crossed the state lines, the two of them fly to Chicago and then to her house in Wisconsin.
GRACE: OK. Justin Freiman, explain how she meets the guy. She`s in Wisconsin playing Xbox with him in Garland, Texas.
JUSTIN FREIMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: That`s right. A lot of these games are actually social in many ways. And you can chat with other users on
Xbox. And that`s exactly what she did. The two of them got into conversations, those conversations got a little hot and heated but to the
point where they actually make plans and meet up.
GRACE: And Larry Fishelson with Dynalink Communications -- Larry, can those communications be salvaged? It`s not like you`re tweeting or
Facebooking or sending e-mails. These here are. But what about their communications and all the times they played Xbox? Can we go back and
recreate how many times they were playing with each other, one in Texas and one in Wisconsin?
FISHELSON: Yes, Nancy. We can 100 percent do that because what happens is, the text message history will be right there. But even with the text
message history gone, it`s all on the Microsoft server, Microsoft owns Xbox. So it`s on their server, which can be pulled up and stored.
GRACE: OK. Explain to me what you just said. You`re saying that Microsoft has everything like a path, like a trail. It`s an Xbox trail
that Microsoft can pull up. And they can see who is playing with who, and at what time and any and all communications between them via Xbox.
FISHELSON: Correct, Nancy. All that information is stored. So they can`t just go out and get it. It`s got to be done through a subpoena. But
through a subpoena, all that info is stored on their server, which can be had.
GRACE: You know, unleash the lawyers, Parag Shah, Atlanta, Misty Marris, New York. And also joining us, Caryn Stark, psychologist from New York.
Let`s get all of them in.
Because, Caryn Stark, what`s a 34-year-old woman doing playing Xbox at night? I mean, what about a job? What about a home? What about a family?
I`m talking to Caryn Stark right now. Caryn Stark, psychologist, joining me. What does that mean, Caryn?
[20:40:00] STARK: Can we say pedophile, Nancy? This is a pedophile. This behavior is pedophilia. This is what somebody does. You go on Xbox, and
you want to communicate with children because you`re interested in having sex with them. So that`s what she was doing on Xbox, I have no doubt about
it.
GRACE: And Parag Shah and Misty Marris, let`s go to you. First to you, Parag Shah. Not only are there the alleged sexual trysts, as Robyn
Walensky referred to them encounters, but there is taking a child across state lines. What about that? That`s going -- that could end up being a
federal charge, Parag Shah.
SHAH: Yes, it`ll be a federal case and the issue here will be about mitigation. Some of the reports we read talked about that she had
depression so there may be some --
GRACE: Depression?
SHAH: -- mental illness or something going on.
GRACE: I`m depressed just hearing about it. But that`s not a mental illness. All right. So let`s get real for a moment. Don`t try to pull
the wool over the viewers` eyes because depression is not a defense.
SHAH: No, no there are -- there are some that say --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Sixty percent of America is depressed.
SHAH: These type of thoughts about children and stuff, there are psychological reasons why someone may be having sick thoughts.
GRACE: (INAUDIBLE)
SHAH: Yes, but they`re having sick thoughts. I`m not saying she`s -- not guilty by insanity.
GRACE: Yes, that`s true. But that`s not a defense.
SHAH: What I`m saying is, it can be a mitigating factor for sentencing purposes.
GRACE: OK. Parag Shah. Are you really seriously telling me that the defense attorney could stand up and have the woman say, my defense is, I
kept having thoughts about having sex with a school boy because, see, that`s what you call under the law an admission. That`s a confession?
SHAH: What I`m saying is, her --
GRACE: Why would you say that, the defense?
SHAH: What I`m saying is that whatever mental problem she has, those can be used as mitigation when it comes time to figure out, what is the
appropriate punishment for this woman? That`s what I`m saying.
GRACE: Misty Marris, could you give me one shred, what scintilla, what sprinkling of evidence that this woman, this 34-year-old female Xbox gaming
champion has a mental illness and we all three know depression does not rise to a mental illness so don`t start that.
MARRIS: Well --
GRACE: Give me something else.
MARRIS: We need to know a little bit more about her. But I would say she -- definitely have some sort of mental illness. That`s most certainly --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: OK. That`s your opinion as a JD. OK, Caryn Stark, you`re the only shrink in our mist. What do you think of their claim she has a mental
illness? That`s not a defense to every case under the sun, Caryn.
STARK: No, it isn`t and she`s a deviant, Nancy. This is a person who is a child molester. So is it your normal behavior? No. But does she have a
mental illness? Where she could be given medication and helped? Not at all. She has deviant behavior.
GRACE: And well -- another argument, not to put words in the defense attorney`s mouth, Justin Freiman, is that she may argue she didn`t know his
age. But aren`t there e-mails and texts that will ruin that defense for her?
JUSTIN FREIMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: That`s right, Nancy. She claims that he`s told her he was older that he actually is but there are texts
where she specifically looks at him and says 15, in the texts. Fifteen.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:47:38] GRACE: "I just drowned my two daughters in a lake." The shocking 911 call when a Raleigh man drowns his little girls in a Durham
lake and tells 911 it`s all because no one would help his pedophilia problem.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police say the girls` father Allan Lassiter attempted to drown the children.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My daughters are in the lake drowning. Both of my daughters, 5 and 3 years old.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What lake? What lake?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK. The 911 call has been digitized. But take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you send an ambulance? My daughters are in the lake drowning. Both of my daughters, 5 and 3 years old.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What lake? What lake?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know. It`s over here behind off -- Highway 54.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s behind --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hold one moment for me. OK. What`s your name? Durham 911, where`s your emergency?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know. You`ve got to use a GPS tracker. I just killed both of my daughters, all right?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, what`s --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`ve got to use a tracker. CPS are trying to take my kids away from me. All I did was try to go get help. All I did was some
pedophilia things, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I had some sexual desires. I was trying to get some help with it. But instead they turned their back on me. The whole system
and they tried to take my kids. If somebody asks for help, really help them, OK. I need somebody to go and break the news to my wife. I need an
ambulance out there. She`s going to be shocked.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, where`s --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s going to be shocked. She`s in Raleigh. I`m in Durham right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK. Meredyth Censullo, investigative reporter. He says that he drowned his children because of some pedophilia things?
MEREDYTH CENSULLO, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Yes. So apparently he had attempted to get help, although we`re not really sure what kind of help he
tried to get for some feelings he was having about pedophilia and Child Protective Services stepped in making an attempt to remove the three
children in his household away from that situation. And so he`s actually blaming CPS for why he decided to attempt to kill his three children, ages
3, 5 and 7.
[20:50:15] GRACE: Now it`s my understanding, Justin, and as we go to air tonight, one of the little girls, I think the 3-year-old, died?
FREIMAN: That is right, Nancy. The 3-year-old did die while in the hospital.
GRACE: OK. Justin, isn`t it true that a hero cop came along, goes out into the water and tries to save the girls? There he is.
FREIMAN: That`s right, Nancy. Thankfully, Deputy Earp was right nearby, he jumps into this water. He goes out. He finds one of the girls, the
older one, floating and crying in the water. The other one submerged in the water. And he got them out and actually helped perform CPR on the 3-
year-old until other emergency workers showed up.
GRACE: "CNN HEROES."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) is a community with poverty. This is a rural area. But also a food desert. That did not have access to fresh,
affordable food. I have been the pastor here 12 years. Early on, they spend more time in funerals than anything else. Now diabetes, blood
pressure, unhealthy lifestyles. I had to do something.
If you take what you have, God can transform your health situation, your food desert situation.
I could not grow food by myself. So I had to come through the community.
All right. Come on, guys. Who want to do eggplants?
It`s a generational but the children, they`re responsible for planting, cultivating, and also harvesting the food. The students are learning a
lot.
They`re called the beans, what are they good for? Diabetes?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Heart health.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Heart health.
One of our goals is to get as much fresh food in the homes as possible that will make the families healthier. It`s a game changer.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I used to take 27 medicines a day. After the garden, now I only take six. I`m feeling better.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This garden has changed our community life. It`s a place where we can produce, a place we can play. It`s a place where we can
live.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:56:50] GRACE: "Baywatch" bombshell, "Dancing with the Stars" dynamo Pam Anderson just reveals deadly terror of a stalker in her home for days,
spying on her, even wearing her famous red "Baywatch" bathing suit.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A 27-year-old woman who traveled all the way from France to be close to the "Baywatch" beauty and then hid out for several
days in Anderson`s own guest house.
PAMELA ANDERSON, ACTRESS: It`s kind of confusing, kind of surreal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Michael Christian, it`s harder for me to understand how a stalker can get through security, fences, you name it, a security system and
actually be in the home of Pam Anderson, be in there for days. She`s in there with her children and wearing her red swimsuit and I don`t understand
how the stalker pulls it off.
CHRISTIAN: Yes, this is certainly the downside of celebrities, Nancy, and this is in Malibu, California. And I can tell you, there is a lot of
security there. But somehow, this woman made it in. Interestingly enough she had apparently complained to someone a few months earlier, that she had
been stopped by security when she was trying to get to Pam Anderson. This time she made it.
GRACE: You`re seeing video from Free Mantle Media. So, Michael, explain to me, what did the stalker do inside Pam Anderson`s home?
CHRISTIAN: Well, apparently she was taking personal things. Pam Anderson said she thought was going nuts because things would be missing, a loaf of
bread, her jean jacket. She thought she was going crazy, and then all of a sudden she discovered this woman living in her guest house, not with any
permission. She was wearing the "Baywatch" bathing suit on or one of them and slicing her wrists. She also apparently had a letter that said, quote,
"I`m not a lesbian, I just want to touch you."
GRACE: OK. Do we know how long she had been in the home?
CHRISTIAN: Three or four days is the best guess.
GRACE: OK, wearing Pam Anderson`s red "Baywatch" swimsuit. OK.
Let`s stop and remember American hero, Metodio Bandonill, 29, Honolulu, Hawaii, second tour, Army Commendation medal, National Defense Service
medal. Loves helping on his family farm. Dreamed of settling in Colorado. Parents Virginia and Virgilio, three brothers, one sister, widow Charmaine.
Metodio Bandonill, American hero.
And tonight, shout-out to Donna Kay, amputee and rodeo star, for adopting another pound puppy Jasper.
Donna Kay, we love you.
Thanks to our guests, but especially to you for being with us, inviting us into your homes, Nancy Grace signing off. I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00
sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
