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Nancy Grace
Criminal Charges for "Dance Moms" Star/Erin Andrews Sues for $75 Million. Aired 8-8:30p ET
Aired October 19, 2015 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news right now. After "Dance Mom" Abby Lee Miller escapes accusations on a slap-fest caught no video on Lifetime
TV, is she headed to jail on brand-new accusations -- bombshell now -- that she allegedly cheats the tax man on nearly $1 million stashed away?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ABBY LEE MILLER, "DANCE MOM": Hi. My name is Abby Lee Miller, and a woman just grabbed and pulled my hair and scratched my face.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You bring it upon yourself!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And live, "Dancing With the Stars" favorite, beautiful young TV star on the road, covering football, checks into a well-known hotel
chain. Little does she know, even though she`s behind closed doors, she is being videoed coming in and out of the shower, walking around in her
private room.
To top it all off, she only finds out when the video of her without a stitch on surfaces on the Internet, viewed by millions. It goes viral!
She`s videoed through the hotel door`s peephole. "Dancing With the Stars" star Erin Andrews fighting back. In the last hours, the "Dancing With the
Stars" whopper $75 million claim!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NICHOLS: Former ESPN reporter Erin Andrews wants to make the man who stalked her and others pay.
ERIN ANDREWS, FORMER SPORTSCASTER: I have screamed. I have cried. I have said to my family, "Why me?"
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That`s ABC`s "Dancing With the Stars."
And live, a neighborhood in shock when a 28-year-old woman found dead in her bathtub, not drowned, no slip and fall, 28-year-old Miriam (ph)
burned dead, head to toe.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A 28-year-old woman has been found in her bathtub, reportedly burned from head to toe, and police are now looking to question
her boyfriend. Reports say that her death has been ruled a homicide.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And live, Bradenton, Florida. Has a missing 5th-grade girl, little Genia Thomas (ph), been found dead in a freezer?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where is 11-year-old Genia Thomas?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We got a phone call from a family member who believed they found the body of Genia Thomas. That`s body was located in a
freezer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The child`s mother...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She won`t talk to us. She won`t say a word to us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And live, upscale, Connecticut, a 24-year-old mom allegedly stages videos, fake, phony videos, to cover up her little stepdaughter`s
mysterious injuries. But then do cops find the evil Stepmommy`s cell phone videos, where she`s forcing the little girl to beat her head on a bunk bed?
Hello. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell right now. After "Dance Mom" Abby Lee Miller escapes accusations for that fight caught on video on Lifetime TV, is she headed to
jail on brand-new accusations, claims she allegedly cheats, $1 million stashed away, and lies to a judge about it?
Liz, cue me up that video, if you don`t mind. What you`re seeing right now is Lifetime`s "Dance Moms." Everyone loves to hate Abby Lee
Miller, and for good reason. Liz, do you have that video ready for me? There you see one of the fights caught on video. It`s all the time. But
that`s a whole different matter from lying to a federal judge.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Carrie (ph), get in here. Get in here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, you go to hell, too! I`m so sick and tired of you guys always supporting her (INAUDIBLE) I will not stand here!
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don`t you dare (INAUDIBLE) I`ve doing this for 11 (ph) years! I am leaving. I`ve had enough. Four-and-a-half years of
success, opportunities, and yet I`m the bad guy about a few classes? Please. I don`t need this. Peace out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That`s from Lifetime`s "Dance Mom."
OK, let me go out to you, Candace Trunzo, senior news editor, Dailymail.com. That was her coming out in a bra, and when she then starts
another physical fight, I`m told.
[20:05:01]But the most recent accusations that are ultimately going to end up landing her in jail have nothing to do with tearing that lady`s hair
out. It`s something altogether different. What happened?
CANDACE TRUNZO, DAILYMAIL.COM (via telephone): That`s right. I mean, she declared bankruptcy in 2010, and a judge who was about to sign off on
the bankruptcy was channel surfing one night, and he saw an episode of "Dance Moms." And then he saw that there were other spinoffs of the show.
And he decided that there was more money there than she was declaring, and now she is accused of 20 counts of bankruptcy fraud, hiding money from the
court.
GRACE: Oh! OK, hold on.
TRUNZO: She`s in trouble.
GRACE: Matt Zarrell, that takes quite a lot of nerve, let me just put it mildly, to lie to a federal judge. What exactly happened, Matt?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Well, apparently, Miller allegedly created bank accounts to hide the income, and then
instructed others to conceal certain income from the bankruptcy court and the trustee.
One important thing, Nancy -- it could be considered a smoking gun, which is that she sent an e-mail to her accountant and business partner
with the subject header, "Let`s make money and keep me out of jail."
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Yale Galanter, famed defense attorney out of Miami, Areva Martin defense attorney out of LA.
Yale Galanter, "Let`s make money and keep me out of jail"? It`s not just, you know, the text, it`s the header on the e-mail. "Let`s make money
and keep me out of jail." You know, when you`re writing your accountant "keep me out of jail," that`s a problem, huh, Yale?
YALE GALANTER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: She`s got a problem. Bankruptcy fraud is extremely serious. You know, when you lie to the court, you`re
lying to the trustee. In order to mount a defense on her, you`re going to have to use something like she was insane, she didn`t know what she was
doing, blame it on the accountant.
She`s going to have a very difficult row to hoe here, Nancy. Bankruptcy fraud is one of the most serious crimes in federal court.
You`ve got to be honest when you go into any court, but especially bankruptcy court -- very, very serious charge.
GRACE: OK, Matt Zarrell, let me understand something. She full on to a judge`s face lied to the judge. Is that what I`m understanding about
money?
ZARRELL: Yes, she did.
GRACE: And then the judge is channel surfing -- everybody, you`re seeing Lifetime`s "Dance Moms."
And so the judge just happens to be sitting in the living room, or in his man cave or wherever he is, and he`s channel surfing, and he realizes
this woman has "Dance Moms" and she has a spinoff? Did you say she`s got a spinoff show?
ZARRELL: Yes, she has one called "Abby`s Ultimate Dance Competition." She also had appearance on "American Idol," which the judge saw. And the
judge said, he said, I realized there`s an awful lot of money coming into this plan (ph) that has not been disclosed. And if I didn`t sit down and
look at this, we never would have known about it.
GRACE: Joining me also, in addition to Areva Martin and Yale Galanter is Shayna Steinfeld, bankruptcy expert joining me out of Atlanta. Shayna,
thanks for being with us. You know, to lie to a judge, straight to his face -- you`re seeing Lifetime`s "Dance Moms" -- and then he happens to
find out you`ve been on...
SHAYNA STEINFELD, BANKRUPTCY EXPERT (via telephone): (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: ... was it "American Idol" and you`ve got two show spinoffs? I mean, she lied outright.
You know what`s funny, Shayna Steinfeld, a lot of times people don`t go to jail for what you think they should go to jail for, like mobsters.
I`m talking about Capone, for instance, the tax man got him. Especially when you`ve got a high-profile target like Martha Stewart, the feds
couldn`t wait to send her to jail.
And so now you`ve got this woman. She didn`t go to jail -- you know what, Liz? Could you please pull up the video where she gets into the
fight with the other mom, and it`s caught on video? Let`s see that. Go ahead and roll it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We come as a team. We`re all leaving.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is your mother speaking for you? Do you not want to dance? I just want your mother to quit speaking for you. You`re
15 years old. Grow the hell up.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know what? You shut the hell up!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: See how she talks to me?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Abby, if you`re not happy with my kid because she doesn`t sit here and smartmouth you and say something back, we will
leave.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s fine.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Kelly (ph), I`m asking...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don`t even speak to me. Don`t even speak to me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why can`t I speak to you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because I don`t want to speak to you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re coming into this all new. And so I just want to know what we`re getting into.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A bully for a teacher.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Here`s your costumes. Enjoy the dance.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) let`s go.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Kelly, we don`t want you to go. The girls -- you guys don`t want to go.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, obviously, she wants someone who has never danced here take both of my kids` place.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, the kids want to dance.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you just sit here and say that my daughter looks miserable, so maybe we should Colanni (ph) her in her place?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, I never said that.
[20:10:00]UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, you most certainly did!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, I didn`t, dingbat! Listen! I said Brook (ph) -- is your mother speaking...
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Get away from me!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Out of the room! Girls, out of the room!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who do you think you are!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Girls, out of the room! Now! Out of the room.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, out of the room! Maddie (ph), you, too. All of you out of the room!
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s crazy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, I`m not crazy! You`re eating my face!
(CROSSTALK)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That is from Lifetime`s "Dance Moms."
OK, Shayna Steinfeld, it`s incredible to me that nobody went to jail. I mean, you get your hair yanked and your face slapped, and nobody goes to
jail. But that all is changing right now, allegedly, for Abby Lee Miller. So how does it work, Shayna?
STEINFELD: The U.S. attorney gets involved, and they take out the federal indictments with the FBI, and they investigate and they bring up
the 20 counts of the bankruptcy fraud, and they prosecute it as a criminal case. Bernie Madoff faced this also as another big bankruptcy fraud case.
GRACE: That`s right. You know what? I completely forgot about Madoff. You know, Alexis Tereszcuk, senior reporter, Radaronline.com, it`s
interesting that when the judge brings this up, that she`s got a show and a spinoff and all of these business ventures, she suddenly remembers and
amends the money. To me, that`s an admission.
ALEXIS TERESZCUK, RADARONLINE.COM (via telephone): Absolutely. She was caught by the judge, which she never would have expected that a judge,
somebody so important, who has so much responsibility, would actually sit and watch her on television.
So when she was caught, she said, Oh, you know what? I got that wrong. But the thing was one of the people that she instructed to lie for
her, allegedly, is her very own mother. So she didn`t really try to hide this money too far away. She told the production company that she worked
for to pay her mom instead of her. So the money was still very close to home.
GRACE: Matt Zarrell, what did the judge have to say about that, she was even trying to use her mother for the scam?
ZARRELL: Yes, in fact, there was one hearing, Nancy, where Miller tried to get involved, and the judge told her to be quiet and said, We`re
not on a reality show. We`re in reality, but it`s not a TV show, OK, where you get to be the prima donna and the diva.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:16:19]GRACE: Live, "Dancing With the Stars" favorite, a beautiful young star, on the road, covering football, checks into a well-known hotel
chain. But little does she know, even though she`s behind closed doors, she is being videoed coming in and out of the shower, walking around in her
private room. And to top it all off, she only finds out when the video of her without a stitch on surfaces on the Internet, viewed by millions. It
goes viral.
Here`s how it happened. She`s videoed through the door`s peephole at the hotel. Erin Andrews from "Dancing With the Stars" is fighting back.
And in the last hours, the "Dancing With the Stars" whopper $75 million claim.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: An average Joe was able to stalk and shoot nude video of an ESPN sports reporter in her own hotel room.
911 OPERATOR: Are you OK?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I just -- I did nothing wrong, and I`m being treated like (EXPLETIVE DELETED) Britney Spears, and it sucks. I`m
sorry.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Right now, we know that Erin Andrews is the "Dancing With the Stars" phenom. Here you see her in her season. What But I`m trying to
find out exactly is how the whole thing went down.
You`re seeing ABC`s "Dancing With the Stars" right now.
Rachel Nichols with CNN, sports anchor, is joining us. Rachel, I know that Erin was all over the map. She was in and out of hotels all over the
country. So this happened at what hotel? And how do we think it happened, Rachel?
RACHEL NICHOLS, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: This happened at the Nashville Marriott. This is back when Erin was working at ESPN. I was actually
working with Erin at the time. And you travel all over with your crew, and the crew tends to stay in the same hotels each time in each city.
So this guy found out which was the ESPN hotel, this Marriott, and then talked a hotel clerk into not only confirming when Erin would be
there, but giving her the room next to her, Nancy.
Then he somehow got around hotel security to change her peephole. to reverse it, and then stood in the hallway and filmed her, again without
anyone from the hotel stopping to notice what was going on or security stopping him at all.
So $75 million that Erin is suing for right now -- yes, she`s suing the guy, Michael Barrett, who did this to her, but she`s also suing the
hotel and its partners for letting this happen and leading this guy right to her room.
GRACE: With me is Rachel Nichols, CNN sports anchor.
Everybody, you are seeing ABC`s "Dancing With the Stars" video.
And this is the room where Erin was filmed. Here`s more "Dancing With the Stars" video.
What I don`t get, Rachel Nichols, is how nobody saw him adjusting the peephole. I mean, he had to change the peephole out in the hallway. And
we have busted a lot of people in hotel surveillance video.
There was Joran Van Der Sloot is caught coming in and out of the hotel room where he killed Stephany Tatiana Flores. We have a beautiful little
girl -- I will never forget her being carried down the hallway by a perp. Oh, here`s Joran Van Der Sloot right now. Here he goes with the deer in
the headlights look, he turns around, looks right in the camera. It`s, like, Ruh-roh! Also, there`s the Rice (ph) video.
[20:20:00]I mean, hotels are notoriously covered in video. So how come nobody saw him jiggering with the peephole?
NICHOLS: That`s an excellent question, and that`s part of what this lawsuit is asking. And there`s a lot of people who say, Wait, $75 million?
I mean, she`s talking about how she suffered emotional damage, damage to her reputation, the fact that these naked pictures of her were all over the
Internet.
Well, part of it, of course, Nancy, as you know, is punitive, right? Marriott is a billion-dollar company. So to make a dent in them, to make
sure that this never happens again to anyone else, Erin wants to sue for a lot of money, the kind of money that they will feel, so that they have
better security in place and people are actually monitoring those cameras live as they`re happening, not just watching the tape afterward, and
keeping track of who`s in what room and telling their hotel clerks and training them, Hey, you don`t give out a young woman`s personal
information, by the way.
GRACE: You`re seeing ABC`s "Dancing With the Stars."
With me, Rachel Nichols, CNN sports anchor, and also with me, Chris Spargo, reporter with Dailymail.com. So here`s my question. Not only --
Rachel said it was the Marriott in Nashville. Not only did they not get the guy out in the hall, rejiggering -- I guess, drilling into -- I don`t
know how it works. John Lucich is going to tell me that.
Not only that, they didn`t catch that, Chris Spargo, but also, how do you call up and say, Hey, you know the "Dancing With the Stars" hottie,
Erin Andrews? I want to get in the room next to her. Can you hook me up with that? I mean, how do you get booked next to a star like her?
There she is on ABC`s "Dancing With the Stars."
How do you do that, Chris?
CHRIS SPARGO, DAILYMAIL.COM (via telephone): And that`s really the most shocking thing because as a celebrity, you`re hoping that when you do
go to a hotel, people are going to be very discrete and very quiet. And the last thing in the world you would expect is that you`d be able to call
up and this would happen.
And then the worst part about it that as soon as Erin files the suit, the hotel`s saying, Well, we have nothing to do with this. This isn`t our
problem.
GRACE: You know, John Lucich, former state criminal investigator, CEO, Network Security Group -- John, how do you physically retool a public
peephole -- I mean, it`s public in the sense that it`s in the public hallway -- without anybody catching you? How does it work?
JOHN LUCICH, FMR. STATE CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR (via telephone): Well, number one, you know, as a network security assessment company, we go all
around and assess networks and we assess casinos, as well as hotels. And the one thing we found consistently is that a lot of these videos are not
being monitored like they should be live. They`re being recorded, but they`re not being live monitored.
Now, the big chains should have that live monitor, so if they see something go down to protect their own guests, they should have that taken
care of right away. But we see too many of them not being monitored. Second of all...
GRACE: What I`m asking about is, how do you retool a peephole so you can video into it?
LUCICH: He shouldn`t even have to. They have -- they sell reverse peepholes, which is a little lens that changes (ph) back (ph) the context
(ph) of the lens that`s in there and reverses it by just placing another lens on top of it, and you`d be able to see right through that.
Whether he did that or not, I have no idea because I wasn`t part of that investigation. But you just have to go out and buy a reverse
peephole, place it up against, and then place a recorder up against that, and record right through that second lens.
GRACE: You`re seeing ABC`s "Dancing With the Stars" phenom Erin Andrews -- $75 million claims after secret videos of her in a hotel room go
viral of her without a stitch on.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:27:31]ANDREWS: My name is Erin. My last name is Andrews. I`m the girl that was videotaped without her knowing, without her clothes on in
a hotel.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Barrett allegedly stalked Andrews for at least 10 months, calling dozens of hotels to figure out where she was staying
while traveling for ESPN.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That`s ABC`s "Dancing With the Stars" favorite, Erin Andrews, a $75 million claim. Erin Andrews was secretly videotaped at a hotel, a
Marriott in Nashville, without a stitch on.
And isn`t that true, Stacey Newman, that first the guy tries to sell it to TMZ and they won`t have anything to do with it?
STACEY NEWMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Yes, that`s actually how people found out about this video because TMZ contacted Andrews`s camp, and
separately, Erin Andrews had a friend who saw it on the Internet, and that`s how she was alerted. He called her and told her to get on line and
see if this is her in the video.
GRACE: And Rachel Nichols, CNN sports anchor, isn`t it true that there were about 30 -- oh, you`re seeing "Dancing With the Stars" video on
ABC, and there she is with Matt Shimakovsy (ph) doing their dance. I think that`s one of the ones that landed them in the top three.
Rachel, weren`t there 31 other women, allegedly?
NICHOLS: Yes, the FBI actually had videos of dozens of other women that he did this to. Part of their issue was matching the video to who the
victims were because a lot of them, their faces weren`t quite visible or they weren`t famous enough personalities that they were able to identify
them right off -- you know, what they were doing coming in and out of the shower.
So there were 17 victims identified, obviously very scary for all the women involved, Erin the most high-profile example. But they tried to keep
him in prison even longer, He was in prison for two-and-a-half years. They weren`t able to identify enough more victims to do that.
He is now out of prison, and that is why she is suing him civilly now, as well, along with Marriott and Marriott`s hotel partners in this
Nashville Marriott Hotel. But scary stuff, and scary for all the women involved.
GRACE: You`re seeing ABC`s "Dancing With the Stars."
Unleash the lawyers, Areva Martin, LA, Yale Galanter, Miami. Also with me, Ramani Durvasula, clinical psychologist. All right, Yale
Galanter, how can Marriott say, I don`t have anything to do with that? It`s their hotel. It`s their hallway. Their people was the one that was
used.
GALANTER: Nancy, it`s the foreseeability issue. No hotel, no business can foresee a guest in the premises committing these types of
crimes or these despicable acts. So Marriott is going to come in and defend this two ways. One, foreseeability. They would have had no way of
knowing. And number two, really, $75 million worth of damages? How does that occur? How is she really damaged? How is she out of pocket? I
understand she feels violated and emotionally.
GRACE: That`s easy. That`s well and good for you to say, Neil Galanter.
GALANTER: How do you come up with $75 million, Nancy?
GRACE: Well, frankly .
GALANTER: That`s just horrible what this young man did.
GRACE: No offense. No offense, but I don`t think anybody is going to want to video you through the peephole. So you really don`t have a leg to
stand on, saying you don`t understand. Ask somebody like her .
GALANTER: Nancy, we`re both lawyers. There are two issues in any civil case. Liability and damage. Here .
GRACE: You know, now there`s another thing.
GALANTER: In order for that you have to be liable.
GRACE: Another thing. Punitive. Punitive. Punishment. And another thing .
GALANTER: You don`t even get to - you don`t even get to punitives until you get to compensatory damages.
GRACE: I guarantee you, they`ll get there.
GALANTER: Other than feeling .
GRACE: You put 12 ladies on that jury and they will get there.
GALANTER: You`re not getting there. Her career is probably more people know about her now than when this occurred.
GRACE: No, no. Areva Martin. Areva Martin .
AREVA MARTIN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes.
GRACE: It`s not just the peephole video. It`s the fact that they let Adam`s house cat call and go, hey, I want to get booked in the room next to
the "Dancing with the Stars`" hottie, Erin Andrews, can you hook me up with that? And they do it.
MARTIN: I think you have - you have the facts wrong, Nancy. And we don`t have any proof of that. What we do know at the time, she was an ESPN
reporter. And I think you`re talking about her as if she`s this huge star, and as horrible as this situation is, she didn`t rent out the whole hotel
suite, she didn`t rent out the whole floor. So, the hotel could do what the FBI could do. This woman was stalked for ten months. This guy has
done this to 17 other women.
GRACE: OK. Let`s just get right down to it.
MARTIN: FBI couldn`t detect him. So, how do you expect the hotel to provide the kind of protection that even the FBI couldn`t do?
GRACE: I expect the hotel not to .
MARTIN: This is all about foreseeability. There is no information .
GRACE: Is there a way I could possibly get (ph) a break before we have to go to break?
[CROSSTALK]
GRACE: This is a horrible story, but the hotel is not going to be responsible.
GRACE: Rachel Nichols, isn`t it true that the stalker calls the hotel and asked to be booked near her?
RACHEL NICHOLS: Here`s the deal. You don`t have to be famous to have an expectation that the hotel will protect you. The hotel has an
obligation to provide general safety for its consumers. And even if nobody knows you besides your next door neighbor and your mother, no one is
supposed to be allowed to ask the hotel what room you are in, and they get a room next to you unless you explicitly give your permission. That`s how
hotels are supposed to work. And Marriott was supposed to train its employees to do that. Whether they did that or not and the guy forgot,
they are culpable. That`s what Erin and her lawyers are saying. Not that they expected, the Marriott should have expected that this whole thing
would unfold. But they should have provided basic safety for her. And to my eyes, that`s what was missing.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: A neighborhood in shock. A 28-year-old woman found dead in her own bathtub, not drowned, not a slip and fall. 28-year-old Miriam
found burned dead in the bathtub, head to toe.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This man is being sought for questioning by police, who want to ask him about the death of girlfriend, Miriam Velez
Samayoa, who was pronounced dead after she was apparently set on fire. Police found her body in the apartments she and Leon shared.
GRACE: Straight out to Frank Morano, radio talk show host on "The Answer." Frank, she is burned head to toe, and found in the bathtub?
Explain how she was found.
FRANK MORANO: Well, this is incredibly disturbing. She was found because there was a whole bunch of smoke emanating from her apartment and
one of her many roommates called 911, and then by the time the superintendent of her building and one of her other roommates rushed to see
what was causing all the smoke, they saw her dead body being burned in a bathtub.
GRACE: Okay. So let me understand this. Joseph Scott Morgan is with us, certified death investigator, professor of forensic Jacksonville State
University. Joseph Scott Morgan, thank you for being with us. So they go in, there`s smoke coming out of her bathroom. And from what I understand,
from sources, she had been wrapped in the shower curtain, accelerant on the shower curtain, and set on fire, and a gas can, clearly an accelerant, was
found in the adjoining bedroom. So my question to you, Joe Scott, is let`s just say arguing, though, that she was asphyxiated, strangled, or
smothered, would burning her body preclude the medical examiner from discovering whether she was asphyxiated?
JOSEPH SCOTT MORGAN, CERTIFIED DEATH INVESTIGATOR: No, absolutely not, Nancy. And thank you for having me. I think the curious thing about
this case is the fact that they can try, they being the perpetrators, can try to hide whatever nefarious activity has been going on. But we want to
first determine if she was, in fact, alive at the time that her body was burned. And this can be achieved in any number of ways. The first thing
we`re going to look for is soot in her airway. And secondly, run what is referred to as a carboxyhemoglobin test to see if she had carmonoxide (ph)
in her system, which means she`s also inhalating this and processing it as opposed to oxygen. We are going to be looking - Salt tissue in the neck to
see if there is any kind of oclaris (ph) of hemorrhage there as far as asphyxial death might be concerned.
GRACE: So bottom line, she either died before she is set on fire or after. If she died after, she could have died from smoke inhalation or
actual burning from her body burning. Now this is what I know, and I want to go back to Frank with the answer. Frank, the guy that runs the
building, the building manager runs in, he tries to put out the fire and then he gets smoke inhalation trying to save her. Tell me, where was that
gas canister found, Frank? What more do you know?
MORGAN: Well, it was found adjacent to the bathtub, which is leading some, including investigators, to think that he soaked the shower curtain
in gasoline and lit it on fire, which is about as disgusting and gruesome thing as you can imagine.
GRACE: You know, Robert Rowe, arson investigator and president of Pyro Cop joining me out of Long Beach. Robert, thank you so much for being
with us. How can we determine if that`s the way it went down?
ROBERT ROWE, ARSON INVESTIGATOR: Well, you know, I`ve been involved in several homicide cases where they tried to cover up the crime with fire.
And as the forensic coroner explained, you know, there`s ways of finding out whether or not she had passed before or after the fire. But more
importantly, when someone decides to try to set a fire to cover up a crime, they leave behind evidence. And people believe that a lot of times that,
you know, their evidence is destroyed by fire, which is not the case. So I`m sure investigators detected some presence of an accelerant. They
examined the scene further.
GRACE: Right.
ROWE: They sent items out for lab analysis. So that`s going to button their case down pretty good, I think.
GRACE: Also with me is Glen Nguyen, he is an expert in aviation security. Glen, this is my question to you. Her boyfriend, Carlos Leon,
allegedly had a flight at 3:00 a.m. that morning to Guatemala. Now, interesting that she dies burned in the bathtub and he is on a flight, and
we can`t get confirmation from police that he was on the flight. They say they don`t know. How can you not know who is on an international flight,
and since when did flights start taking off at 3:00 a.m. anyway?
GLEN NGUYEN, AVIATION SECURITY EXPERT: Well, it all depends, Nancy. What you have to do is go back with TSA and they and the airline will have
a manifest, which incorporates that person`s name. You can`t just walk out to the airport and get a ticket without going through the security
processes that the airline and TSA require. That is at least one piece of photo identification and, of course, if you`re going to use a credit card
to buy that ticket. There`s all kinds of means to determine if that person was on the flight. They obviously have not made the right contacts with
the airline and TSA should be on top of this immediately.
GRACE: Exactly. And since when do flights take off at 3:00 a.m. out of the United States? I thought that there was a dead period between,
like, you know, 1:00 a.m. and 6:00 a.m., where flights weren`t coming in and out?
NGUYEN: No, that`s not true. You can be having delayed departures because of weather situations of both a departure location and the arrival
location. So there are times when flights do arrive in the middle of the night. There are times when flights depart in the middle of the night,
even though they may have boarded. As you .
GRACE: No, I mean a flight scheduled. Can a flight in the U.S. be scheduled to leave at 3:00 a.m.? You buy a ticket to leave at 3:00 a.m.?
NGUYEN: That could be a charter flight, but normally, no, that`s not correct.
GRACE: It`s not a charter flight, okay? It`s a regular. So, the whole story stinks to me, Glen Nguyen, a., that nobody knows if he`s on the
plane or not, and b., that the plane was leaving at 3:00 a.m., scheduled to leave at 3:00 a.m. Ramani Durvasula, a clinical psychologist, what does it
say to you that someone wanted to not only kill her, but burn her?
RAMANI DURVASULA, PH.D., CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: You know, a., it could just be naive that this person really thought they destroyed the
evidence, but also this absolute rage. You know, again, these relationships -- a person doesn`t just one day kill their partner. This is
usually a ramp up in domestic violence. You know this, Nancy, from looking at so many of these cases. And you have this rage that characterizes these
situations. And it`s almost like this absolute wanting to annihilate this person. And that`s what this feels like.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Live to Bradenton, Florida. And I am sick about this case. Has a missing fifth grade little girl, Janae Thomas, been found dead in a
freezer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Missing child, Janya Thomas.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The mother brought over a freezer and it was dead bolted. They got a little suspicious about that and they actually broke
open the freezer, looked inside and saw a body, a child body inside a freezer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s a baby, an innocent child.
GRACE: Straight out to Roger Schulman, news director of "The Answer." Roger, I am sick about this. And look at that mom. She won`t even look up
at the camera. All right. Here`s what I`m -- there are so many reasons to be angry about this. Number one, let`s just start at the beginning, Roger.
The mom takes her daughter out of regular school back in 2013. 2013. And never -- you never hear from her again. It`s like, okay, fine, home
school. Go ahead. The superintendent in Manatee County never follows up. All right? Then you`ve got another child, I think she`s got five children,
and she`s charged with aggravated battery. And the children are all still in the home? And then they go, oh, yeah. Where`s Janya? Where`s she?
They haven`t seen the little girl since 2014, Roger. 2014. Help me.
ROGER SCHULMAN: Florida is a transient state. A lot of people move here, a lot of people move away. And unfortunately, it is easy to lose a
child. If a person says they`re in home school, the school district will probably believe them unless there`s some aggravating circumstance.
GRACE: OK, Roger, let me understand what you just said that a parent will say, I`m homeschooling the child, and then it`s not the duty of the
school system? To ever follow up. I`ve read the law there, and the procedures apply to homeschooling, the parent who was homeschooling must
provide a portfolio of how they`re educating their child that is filled out contemporanuously with learning events. On this day I took my child to the
museum, on this day we went to the petting zoo. Blah-blah-blah. Never happened. Two years. Girl`s in a freezer. Now, Michael Christian, what
about all the other children?
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN: Nancy, a little low. This child had four siblings. One is 15, one is 12, one is nine, and one is two. And
according to reports, the Child Protective Services actually came to the home in connection to an incident involving the 12 year old boy.
GRACE: Wait a minute. Michael, hold on. Michael, please, leave. I don`t want to see that mother again, please. Look at this little girl. I
want to see this little girl Janaya is dead. She`s been missing since 2014. Nobody called, relatives, neighbors, when they would ask the mother,
the mother would go, oh, yeah, she`s sick. The school system didn`t follow up, although the other children were all in their regular school, they
didn`t move. Nobody moved, they`re not transients, they lived there. This mom is the devil. Michael, go ahead.
CHRISTIAN: Again Nancy, Child Protective Services came regarding an investigation into alleged child abuse of another child, a 12-year-old boy,
and when they got there they found the other four kids, but they didn`t find Janaya, and the mother refused to say where she was.
GRACE: You started - again, there you go. You are trying to make me crazy. Look at this child, look at her eyes. Look at her. She`s looking
at us. We failed her. The justice system failed her. Nobody cared about her. This child`s life was a living hell. And nobody did a thing about
it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where is 11-year-old Janaya Thomas?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And we`ve got a phone call from a family member, they believe they found the body of Janaya Thomas. That body was located
in a freezer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The child`s mother.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She won`t talk to us. She won`t say a word to us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: When I look at this child`s face, Janaya`s face, it just breaks my heart, because look at her. Nobody could help her? Nobody
noticed that she was being abused? All the children in the home were being abused. The mom is now charged with aggravated child abuse, battery on
another one of the children while we all just what, sit by twiddling our thumbs? The mom jerks her out of school in 2013, claiming she was going to
home school her. Yeah, 2015 the school -- two years later, the school responds going, I think they moved. Yeah, they didn`t move. The girl is
dead. So, Roger Schulman, with "860 The Answer." Roger, how did this happen that a freezer was just dropped in somebody`s house and said, hey,
will you store this? It`s got my dead daughter in it? How did that whole thing go down?
SCHULMAN: Well, they took the locked freezer to the grandmother`s house, and that was last week, and the grandmother didn`t know anything was
wrong until she heard news reports about Janaya being missing. Then they broke inside and looked and found what they thought was a body and
immediately - immediately they called Bradenton police. That`s how that whole thing developed, and it`s a horrible situation.
GRACE: Horrible. The other thing is, I mean how does a grandmother not notice the grandchild hasn`t been seen for so long? This child hasn`t
been seen by anyone that we know of since August of 2014. Tip line 866- 634-8477.
There is a reward. Let`s remember American hero Minnesota officer Steven Sandberg, killed in the line of duty. Investigator, served Aiken
County sheriff 24 years, leaves behind a wife and a daughter. Steven Sandberg, American hero.
And now, please join our whole family as we congratulate our executive producer Liz Yustadis (ph), a Turner Broadcasting working mother of the
year. Not only does she run our - there she is with her long-suffering husband. Not only does she run our show, she`s got beautiful children, so
well mannered, and she works. Wow! Congratulations, thanks to our guests, but especially to you for being with us. I`ll see you tonight, 8:00 sharp
Eastern, and until then, goodbye, friend.
END
