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Nancy Grace
Hero Cop Revealed as a Suicide; Entire Family Killed Inside Home; 12-year-old Girl Sex Attack in Bathroom. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired November 05, 2015 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: Breaking news. The shooting of an Illinois cop leads to a massive manhunt. The lieutenant`s gun recovered from the scene,
and the gun had been fired. Homeland Security reviews significant video, as they put it, evidence from a private residence near the murder scene.
Bombshell now. In a bizarre new development, cops now say the veteran police officer allegedly stages a foot chase and a dispatch to cover his
own suicide as he is investigated for stealing money from the force -- might not have been acting alone. And at this hour, are others under
investigation?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Lieutenant Gliniewicz, laying (ph) shot about 50 years from his cruiser, his weapon missing, authorities say, the suspects
gone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have commercial areas, then you have residential areas, the marshland and the lakes. But there are plenty of places to
hide. A lot of homes butt up right against the woods. So if he were trying to escape or he was trying to hide, there are plenty of places
(INAUDIBLE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And live, Anderson County, South Carolina, an entire family of four totally wiped out, all four found dead in their home in what police say was
a, quote, "very, very violent crime scene."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my God! (INAUDIBLE) Get somebody out here!
911 OPERATOR: Take a big breath for me so I can understand you (INAUDIBLE) What`s going on? Is somebody hurt?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s my mama`s house, and they`re -- they`re dead!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And outrage! To Houston, a mother and her children go into the local CVS, and then the unthinkable, the 12-year-old little girl lured into
the CVS drugstore bathroom and attacked. In just a few miles radius, nearly 1,300 -- repeat, 1,300 registered sex offenders. Tonight, we obtain
grainy surveillance video of the girl`s attacker. BOLO -- be on the lookout. This predator still on the loose!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Watch the man with the white towel over his shoulder. You see him walk into the store, quickly make his way to the bathroom.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s scary. You don`t know. I mean, there`s creeps everywhere.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say a young teenage girl goes in after him, and that`s where he sexually assaults her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. Breaking news, to the shooting of an Illinois cop leading to a massive manhunt. The lieutenant`s gun was recovered from the
crime scene, and the gun had definitely been fired. Homeland security reviewing significant video, as they put it, evidence from a private
residence near the cop`s murder scene.
But tonight, in a bizarre new development, two others being investigated, that he was not acting alone. Who are the others? Who benefited, if
anyone, from his death?
It`s very, very difficult for me to believe, to accept, that this police officer staged a foot chase, staged it all in an elaborate plan to cover up
his own suicide?
Straight out to Geoff Pinkus, WCGO, talk show host. Geoff, thank you for being with us. Let me understand this. Is it that they can`t find the
people that shoot him dead, or that there`s actually evidence that he committed suicide?
And I got to hear a motive. I hear that he had taken some money from the police force. But really? How much? I mean, he could have taken out a
home equity loan to pay that off. Why kill yourself?
GEOFF PINKUS, WCGO (via telephone): Well, Nancy, thank you for having me on. I think it`s a culmination of things. He was mentoring a bunch of
youth that had a charity organization, and he took a tremendous amount of money out of their...
GRACE: Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Wa-wait! "Tremendous amount of money" -- maybe you know something that I don`t know because we were told five
figures. So how much -- when you say "a tremendous amount of money," I understand -- we`ve done a lot of research. His home is worth about 200
grand. There was about a $98,000 mortgage left on it. Why not take out a home equity loan to pay that off? Why kill yourself?
[20:05:00]PINKUS: Well, because -- you`re giving him too much credit. I mean, people don`t think that way all the time. They`re not thinking about
-- maybe they didn`t have any credit. Maybe his -- you know, maybe his financial situation was in bad shape. $200,000 to an officer is a lot of
money. And I think...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: You know what, Pinkus? Hold on. Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! You are talking to former law enforcement, whether you know that or not, Mr.
Pinkus. And for me to prosecute, I had to work two night jobs, two night jobs, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday night in order to
continue prosecuting and pay my house and car note.
Now -- so don`t start preaching to me about how little government employees get paid. I know how little he gets paid. It was a crying shame how
little police officers get paid! But is that really a motive to stage this elaborate foot chase, the dispatch?
Liz, if you can pull out the dispatch calls from that day, where He`s calling, he says he sees the people, he`s going to go investigate. You,
Geoff Pinkus, WCGO, you really believe this was all part of a suicide?
PINKUS: I don`t see why that`s so hard to believe. I mean, he was being investigated, allegedly. He was supposed to retire in August. He had two
people out there. I don`t know who they are. They think two people were helping him. And this could have just been the end.
I mean, and think about it. He didn`t give these guys -- the department any description. He just said, I believe two black males and a white male.
The investigation...
GRACE: Well, that is a description. That is a description!
PINKUS: Not as far as I`m concerned, according to a 32-year veteran. They came to the conclusion...
GRACE: OK, so you, Geoff Pinkus, talk show host, WCGO, you`re now saying that doesn`t suit you. That`s not a description for you.
PINKUS: No, it`s not.
GRACE: You know what? Let`s listen to it. Let`s listen to it, Pinkus. Roll it, Liz.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE)
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: OK. Now, I thought you guys were running that back-to-back, so I wanted to hear the whole thing, if you could get it, Liz.
But did you hear what Gliniewicz said, Pinkus? He said, Go ahead and send a second unit. So what, he wants somebody to come up and find him killing
himself? He sends for a second unit. They`re there in three minutes!
PINKUS: They were there in three minutes. Doesn`t take long to shoot yourself. Doesn`t take long to lay out all the DNA evidence and his
glasses and pepper spray. And according to the police -- listen, I`m not an officer, you are. (INAUDIBLE) I`m just here to report the facts, that
they found that all the things -- all of his information that -- around his body, and that they think that -- they also said that he`s great at making
crime scenes, that he`s fabulous at organizing a crime scene. And they found the bullet in his -- you know, in his vest, and then they found a
bullet down by his torso. Yes, I think (INAUDIBLE) he committed suicide. Yes.
GRACE: OK. Hold on. With me is Geoff Pinkus from WCGO. Let`s go out to Christopher Covelli, the PIO with the Lake County Major Crimes Task Force.
Detective, thank you so much for being with us. I mean, if the forensic evidence says the man led his own police force on a wild goose chase and
that he killed himself and staged a suicide scene, and you guys have forensic evidence that proves that, all right, I accept that. I don`t like
it as a former law person.
But you know, now people are asking the widow to give back money that was given to her because her husband was killed in the line of duty. I mean,
are we sure, Detective -- are we sure, before we drag this guy`s name through the mud, take away the widow`s funds, their retirement, everything,
are we sure, Detective? Do you really believe that`s what happened?
DET. CHRISTOPHER COVELLI, LAKE COUNTY MAJOR CRIMES TASK FORCE (via telephone): Well, we wouldn`t have held a press conference yesterday with
our final conclusions indicating that this was an intricately staged suicide if we didn`t believe that 100 percent. All of the facts and
evidence have led us to that decision. The final victimology, when that was compiled, the facts are overwhelming.
GRACE: What do you mean? What is victimology? What`s that?
COVELLI: It`s a very detailed look into a victim`s life, and that`s conducted any time we conduct a death investigation. In this case, we were
able to uncover a number of things. Like you had previously discussed, thousands of dollars were used by Lieutenant Gliniewicz out of the police
Explorer account for personal purchases, and these included...
[20:10:05]GRACE: Can I ask you something, Detective? I`m not saying he didn`t skim money. And I`m ashamed -- I`m ashamed that a police officer or
law enforcement would do that. But before I yank that check away from the widow, you know, I want to make sure.
You know what always bugged me, Detective? When I would prosecute a homicide and the autopsy would say, Based on other factors, we believe this
is a homicide. I never liked that. I want the forensics to show me.
So when you say you do the victimology report, I believe you. I completely accept that you are telling me what is accurate. But I want to know why
you think this is a suicide -- not because he scammed money. That`s bad. But what about the forensics? What could you tell from the trajectory path
of the bullet? What makes you think he could shoot himself twice?
COVELLI: Well, first of all, I think we learned yesterday, as the -- what the forensics show is both rounds that struck him were at close range,
close proximity, very close proximity. That`s one of the things the forensics showed. Another thing the forensics showed was he was shot with
his own gun.
GRACE: Hold on. I`ve got a question for you, Detective. Hold on. I`ve got a question for you. You`re warp speed ahead of me, Detective Covelli.
When you say that it was at close range -- if he was struggling with these people that he says he saw, and they got his gun and shot him, wouldn`t
that be at close range? When you say "close range," what do you mean, within 36 inches so as to get the gunshot residue on his body? What do you
mean by close range?
COVELLI: Within less than six inches with the shot that was the devastating shot. But you know, I wouldn`t be so quick to dismiss the
victimology. That`s very important when you`re looking at all angles here. And that is a very important factor that the coroner uses when they make a
determination on the manner of death.
And it`s not necessarily so much the fact that he had been stealing and laundering money, but the fact that all of these external pressures were
closing in on him, and the fact that when this was discovered, it`s something he would go to prison for, you know. And he is a revered member
of this community and portrayed a completely different image than he was actually conducting himself in for at least the past seven years.
GRACE: OK, now, Detective Christopher Covelli, now -- now I`m starting to understand a little bit better your investigation, the fact that he would
go to jail, that his whole life had been this image of what he wanted to be, what he wanted people to think he was.
But hold on, everybody. Let`s listen to what his wife says.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I wholeheartedly believe he was murdered!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And to say otherwise?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is disrespectful, hurtful, irresponsible.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: when the coroner said maybe it`s a suicide, how did you take that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There was a lot of anger.
The coroner is an elected person. He didn`t perform the autopsy. The one that performed the autopsy came and stood on my deck and told me
everything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That`s the officer`s widow speaking on "Crime Watch Daily."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:17:42]UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Lieutenant Gliniewicz, laying shot about 50 yards from his cruiser, his weapon missing, authorities say, the suspects
gone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have commercial areas, then you have residential areas, the marshlands and the lakes. But there are plenty of places to
hide. A lot of homes butt up right against the woods. So if you were trying to escape or you were trying to hide, there are plenty of places
where you could sneak (ph) into.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And now we learn in a bizarre twist that others may have benefited from Officer Gliniewicz`s scheme? Now, we understand that it is being
suggested that he killed himself, and that the foot chase and the dispatch where he calls for backup was all part of an elaborate staging of a
suicide? For what?
Now, it turns out, Candace Trunzo, senior news editor, Dailymail.com, he was skimming money from something called the Explorer program. It was
within the police department.
But how much money are we talking about? Is it something a home equity loan or a loan wouldn`t cover?
CANDACE TRUNZO, DAILYMAIL.COM: Well, It`s enough money so that he was really living a double life. I mean, Lieutenant Gliniewicz was not only
taking money to pay his mortgage, he was taking trips. He was using...
GRACE: Wait, wait, wa-wa-wa-wait. What trip? What trip?
TRUNZO: He was using the money to take vacations...
GRACE: Well, what vacation?
TRUNZO: Well, he took days -- that`s what the cops are saying. He took vacations with the money and...
GRACE: Is that true, Detective? Is Candace Trunzo right? Was he taking what...
COVELLI: Yes, that...
GRACE: I don`t mean like going to Disneyland, I mean elaborate vacations that cost a lot of money. Did he do that?
COVELLI: Yes, that is shown in the history that he used the money for a vacation. And I`m limited in what I can say about the money due to the
fact there is an ongoing criminal investigation with additional parties.
GRACE: Detective, listen, I`m on your side. We`re on the same team. But I`ve got a question. If you can put it out there that a police officer, a
well-respected police officer, staged this whole thing, but you can`t tell me how much money he embezzled, now, that sounds bass-ackwards to me, all
right? So you can put that out there against him, but you can`t tell me how much money?
[20:20:02]COVELLI: I could tell you. The problem is we have to maintain some confidentiality with that because that money is pursuant to an ongoing
criminal investigation.
GRACE: OK. That I understand.
COVELLI: We can`t release a lot of information regarding that because it could compromise the criminal investigation. Those facts will absolutely
come out, just like everything else has come out. It just can`t come out at the moment.
GRACE: Well, you know, Detective Covelli, I hear what you say. I`m not saying that you`re lying. I`m saying that it pains me to hear a law
enforcement officer would do this, and I want to know the proof you`ve got, all right, the proof, not just speculation about a victimology report!
But you know what? Candace Trunzo, Dailymail.com, you were about to say, OK, he took a -- now, the detective just said a vacation. So he took a
vacation. What else did he do with the money?
TRUNZO: He used it to view adult Web sites, which I assume is shorthand for porn. And he used the money to lend to...
GRACE: Well, you know what? About 60 percent of every man you see walking up and down the street would be behind bars for that, all right? If they
can watch porn, they will, all right?
TRUNZO: Yes, they use their own money, though, Nancy. They don`t use somebody else`s.
GRACE: OK, you`re right about that. Detective Covelli, is that true? I mean, how much -- can`t you just go on line and look at naked people? Do
you have to spend money to do it?
COVELLI: Well, he did. So I mean, and the fact is, he used a children`s Explorer account to fund that and fund travel expenses, mortgage payments,
personal loans, unaccounted cash withdrawals.
And there`s more to it than that. You have to look at the deleted text messages that were recovered in the sampling we provided yesterday. You
know, over 6,500 pages of text messages were sifted through just from his phone alone. And you know, there were very incriminating messages located
on this phone.
GRACE: Well, you know, Detective, what really is turning me around here is what you said about his whole life had been this persona, the G.I. Joe,
this respected officer, and it was all falling apart.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:26:28]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The all-out search for three accused cop killers.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The manhunt ratcheting up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Significant progress today, what we believe to be some significant video from a private residence, a home video security system.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Has the lieutenant`s gun been recovered?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Joe was my best friend, my world, my hero, the love of my life. And he will truly be missed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Well, with me is Detective Christopher Covelli, who is telling me that Gliniewicz, the fallen officer, staged an elaborate scene to make it
look like a suicide (sic). Why? Not just over skimming money from the department, but because the image he had projected all these years would
fall apart. He would go to jail.
We`ve got a hold of what he`s talking about. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "She hates me, and I`ve never said more than three sentences to her the year she`s been here, hates the Explorer program and
is crawling up my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) in the program. She won`t sign off to move it to American Legion, and if she gets a hold of the old checking
account, I`m pretty well (EXPLETIVE DELETED)."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "Hopefully, she decides to get a couple of drinks in her and she gets a DUI."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "She does, but not around here and no one knows where. Trust me, I`ve thought through many scenarios, from planting things to the
volo (ph) bog."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Used the exploder (sic) account for the flight, $264.70. It can wait for a while. Their account is sitting at $3,000-ish
now."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "You are borrowing from that other account. When you get back, you`ll have dumping money into that account, or you will be
visiting me in jail. The $1,600 and the $777 all came from there. And FYI, all but $1,500 of everything borrowed came from that other account.
Hence why I closed the U.S. Bank and opened BMO account to keep it from being traced. NAD (ph) making P300 their own 501(c)(3) no longer
considered a village account."
"I`m sticking my neck out there with loaning you over $2,377 to fix your truck, specifically and only to help accommodate your summer leave trip to
OK. I would not have otherwise. I can`t even pay for state (ph) now because their account is down to $1,578.72. And that`s four bodies and two
advisers at $450 apiece, not to mention the $3,055.72 still left to pay for their uniforms. I will need you to do an allotment to their account at
minimum $100 a month very soon."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK, there is more of that, if you could rack that up, Liz.
Detective Covelli, I see what you`re talking about. I understand that there is a long line of, like -- did you say 6,500 deleted e-mails and
texts?
COVELLI: There were over 6,500 pages of text messages and electronic messages. Many of them were deleted. The incriminating messages were
deleted. Those were recovered at Quantico.
GRACE: I see where he even is discussing planting evidence to bring down a chief that may be on to him?
COVELLI: Right. That was a text message sent from his phone, which was deleted prior to his suicide.
GRACE: Detective Covelli, what would he have gained from suicide?
COVELLI: The fact that he wouldn`t have to live with the consequences of his actions over the past many years and explain himself and live with that
guilt, and completely do an about-face from the image he`s portrayed, and you know, not spend time in prison.
[20:30:10]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Now live to Anderson County, an entire family of four totally wiped out. All four of them found dead in their home in what police say was a,
quote, "very, very violent crime scene."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My god, I need somebody out here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Take some deep breaths for me so I can understand you, so we can get there faster. What`s going on? Is somebody hurt?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In my momma`s house. They`re dead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:35:03] GRACE: How can an entire family get totally wiped out? This is a husband and wife and they apparently have living with them both of their
mothers, their elderly mothers. This husband and wife and their two elderly mothers. The whole family dead in a, quote, "very, very violent
crime scene."
Gary David is with me. Morning show host on WVOC.
Gary, thank you for being with us. What I understand is that we believe this occurred on a Sunday afternoon. That very typically they would have a
big Sunday meal after church. And that it was then that the murders occurred.
Let`s take it from the beginning, Gary.
GARY DAVID, MORNING SHOW HOST, WVOC: Yes, Nancy --
GRACE: How were the bodies found? How were the bodies found?
DAVID: I`m sorry?
GRACE: How were the bodies found?
DAVID: They were found by Amy Valardi, although I believe on the 911 call she identified herself as Amy Montgomery. She is the daughter and
granddaughter of two of the victims. She has a home on the same property, a separate home on the property. She had last talked to them on Saturday.
Monday, about 12:30 Monday afternoon, she goes to the home, goes to knock on the door. Noticed the door is ajar. Enters the home. The lights are
off. Turns them on. She finds three bodies inside the den and then the fourth body of her stepfather Mike Scott was then found by police officers
inside the bedroom of the home.
GRACE: Why was she there, Gary David?
DAVID: That we don`t know. She -- again her home was right on the same property, right behind this home. She pulled up, had her kids in the car
with her at the time. Haven`t spoken to them since Saturday. One of the family members said they went by on Sunday afternoon, shortly after, we
believe -- the coroner believes that the four were killed and said there was no sign of activity at the home. They did not get in there. They just
left.
We`re not real sure exactly what that`s all about. But the daughter here apparently, again, had not talked to them in a couple of days. Just went
by to check up on Monday. We don`t know that she at the time thought there was anything going on or she`s stopping by to pay a visit. That we don`t
know.
GRACE: With me is Joseph Scott Morgan, death investigator. Teaches at Jacksonville state in their forensics unit.
Joe Scott, thank you for being with us. Give me your take on this.
JOSEPH SCOTT MORGAN, DEATH INVESTIGATOR: Well, I find it very interesting that the three females were separated from the male. It almost appears to
me just reading over the documents involving this case that they separated the male out.
Also there is not what I would term a lot of violence simply based upon the fact that the women sustained single gunshot wounds. I`m still unclear as
to how many gunshot wounds the male sustained. You`ve got these three that might be rather passive and easy to contain. It`s also going to be very
crucial to determine time since death in this case to try to pin down the timeline.
GRACE: You know, with me right now is Greg Shore, Anderson County coroner.
Greg, I`m really interested in the fact that based on the food that they had eaten that day, you could determine the time of death.
GREG SHORE, ANDERSON COUNTY CORONER: Right. Now we believe that they ate about an hour before their death. In talking to the daughter Amy, she said
that they usually eat between 12:00 and 1:00 on Sunday. We know that Mike texted his boss at 1:30 to let him know that he would be back at work on
Monday. He had taken a few days off. I think he was off Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday.
GRACE: Right.
SHORE: He works for the South Carolina Department of Transportation, here in Anderson. At 3:30, Kathy`s brother and Taylor`s son came to the door to
see them at 3:30 Sunday afternoon and didn`t get an answer.
GRACE: Right.
SHORE: So we have a timeframe between 1:30 Sunday and 3:30 that we believe that these four were killed.
GRACE: You know what`s so odd is that we don`t have a motive. It seems as if they may have just walked in on them on a Sunday afternoon. But one
thing has come out and that is, quote, "a very, very violent crime scene."
Greg Shore, what do you mean by that?
SHORE: If you take the four victims away from the scene, the house was basically undisturbed. I mean, to kind of clarify, Mike and his mother and
Kathy`s mother were in the living room. Kathy was found in the bedroom. So she was the one that was found separated from the three.
[20:40:03] GRACE: Did you say one of the mothers was the one in the other bedroom?
SHORE: No, Kathy Scott was in the bedroom.
GRACE: The wife. The wife. OK.
SHORE: Her husband and her mother -- Mike`s mother were all in the living room.
GRACE: Let me ask you a couple of questions, Mr. Shore. Did it seem as if they had a traditional Sunday afternoon lunch? Was there evidence of that
in the kitchen?
SHORE: No, the kitchen had been cleaned. The house was immaculate.
GRACE: See, that`s interesting. too.
SHORE: The coffee table -- they had toys on the coffee table next to the victims. I mean, they were not even knocked off the table. So it was just
-- each of the four had gunshot wounds to the head, but there appeared to be no disturbance.
GRACE: You know, that is extremely unusual.
Unleash the lawyers. Parag Shah, author of "The Code," and Carissa Kranz, joining us out of Miami.
And Parag Shah, it almost sounds staged. Everybody saw "Gone Girl," right? Where it was set up. You could see that it was staged. For the exact
reasons you`re hearing Greg Shore state. That they`re sitting there, they`re all dead from gunshot wounds to the head, but nothing is -- nothing
is disturbed. Even the little figurines on the coffee table are all still sitting there. That is very unusual, Parag Shah.
PARAG SHAH, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It`s definitely unusual. But it`s too soon to jump to the conclusion that it`s staged. We don`t know --
GRACE: I`m not saying it`s staged.
SHAH: -- if somebody had come in or whether it was possibly a murder- suicide situation. We don`t -- we don`t have --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Oh, wait, wait, wait. Nobody has said murder-suicide. In fact, nobody has said murder-suicide, Carissa. Except Parag Shah just blurting
it out.
But, Carissa Kranz, what I`m saying is not that this was staged by one of them. It seems to me that it`s someone that they knew. That they allowed
to come right in amongst them. I mean, everybody`s kicked back on Sunday afternoon. You got a football game going. Bam. Your whole family is
wiped out. It seems to me that it`s somebody they knew, Carissa.
CARISSA KRANZ, ATTORNEY: Well, it`s possible it`s someone they knew. Also, that back door was left open, so it could be that someone knew that
they usually left their back door open, or family members knew that the back door is usually left open. I don`t know enough motive here to
prosecute or defend this.
GRACE: Yes. Well, let`s talk about that. That`s a good point. That`s a good point.
Gary David, morning show host, joining me from WVOC. This is a real mystery. Is it true that there hasn`t been a quadruple homicide since
about 2007 in this jurisdiction?
DAVID: This is a rarity here. This is a very rural area just outside of Anderson, South Carolina, just miles from the campus of Clemson University.
It`s a quiet place. It`s not the kind of place you`d expect to hear something like this happening.
One interesting note here, Nancy, and it was mentioned in the 911 call. That the father in this case, Mike Scott, the stepfather had dealt with
other people buying and selling gold and maybe some other items. But the stepdaughter --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Was anything stolen?
DAVID: And he hooked up those people to his home.
GRACE: Was there anything stolen?
DAVID: Nothing. According to police --
GRACE: Nobody runs, attacked. There was no sex attack. House untouched. No sex attack. Nothing stolen.
You know, to Dr. Lee Norman, chief medical officer at the University of Kansas Hospital. Doctor, thank you for being with us. Doctor, what can we
learn from the wounds themselves?
DR. LEE NORMAN, CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER, UNIVERSITY OF KANSAS HOSPITAL: Well, they should be very enlightening. The ballistics will tell you kind
of what gun was used, the distances, the powder burns, the trajectory through the tissues, the entrance and exit. That should be very helpful in
deciding where the person stood that was doing the shooting.
GRACE: Dr. Norman, you`re absolutely correct. Dr. Lee Norman, the chief medical officer at the University of Kansas Hospital. Let`s see what we
can glean from that 911 call. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Anderson County 911, what`s your emergency?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my gosh, I need somebody out here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Take some deep breaths for me, so I can understand you, that way we can get help faster. What`s going on?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh god.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ma`am, tell me what`s going on?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They`re dead. Oh, my god.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You said he`s dead?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. They`re dead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ma`am, I can`t understand you, honey.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, god.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is somebody hurt?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s four people.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ma`am, I can`t --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s four people.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s four people who what?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In my momma`s house and they`re dead.
[20:45:03] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s four people in your momma`s house that`s dead?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Live, Houston. A mother and her children go into the local CBS and then the unthinkable. The 12-year-old little girl lured into the drug
store bathroom and attacked. And just a few miles radius, nearly 1300, that`s 1300, registered sex offenders. Now we obtain grainy surveillance
video of the girl`s attacker. BOLO, be on the lookout, this predator is still on the loose.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Watch the man with the white towel over his shoulder. You see him walk into the store and quickly make his way to the
bathroom.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s scary. You don`t know. I mean, there`s creeps everywhere.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police say a young teenage girl goes in after him and that`s where he sexually assaults her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:50:04] GRACE: With me, Jeffrey Boney, associate editor, "Houston Forward Times." 1300 registered sex offenders in such a small area?
JEFFREY BONEY, ASSOCIATE EDITOR, "HOUSTON FORWARD TIMES": Yes. That`s what we have here in this area.
GRACE: So, tell me, what is being done to find this guy, Jeffrey?
BONEY: Well, police are still on the lookout for him. Of course on October 16th, around 2:00 p.m. in the afternoon according to Detective
Michael Kelly, the attack occurred and as you say, the surveillance video showed the man who`s described as a white male in his late 20s with a
goatee and a distinct hairline, coming into the store, following her mom and her grandmother, the victim, the 12-year-old victim. The man went in,
came out. Followed the victim back in. The girl went off by herself, the man entered again, quickly approached her, they went off in a corner,
according to the detective, and there were times when he was not fully clothed. And so --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, what, not fully clothed? I didn`t hear that part.
BONEY: Yes, there were times per the detective that he was not fully clothed and he was -- he coaxed the young girl into the women`s restroom
and they had sex.
GRACE: With me is Jeffrey Boney.
Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, author of "Dealbreakers." I need your help. 1300 registered sex offenders and just a couple of mile`s radius.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": And, Nancy, so many sex offenders are prolific offenders and if this guy went into a CVS
in the middle of the day, took his clothes off, lured a 12-year-old into a bathroom, her mother and grandmother were with him, this means guy was in a
sexual frenzy. Somebody like this is going to offend again and again. It`s really important to know where he lives, who`s in his whereabouts.
You know, the fact that he chose a CVS probably means that he`s lurking around other areas where there are parents and children. You know, local
schools, grocery stores, so, I just hope this guy gets apprehended soon.
GRACE: How would you profile him, Bethany?
MARSHALL: Well, I would have profiled him sort of single, uneducated, living on his own on the periphery of society. Possibly not holding down a
job so that he could have access to children, underfunctioning. Perhaps a substance abuser and probably as we know with the statistics, most sexual
abusers offend for 13 years before they`re caught, so he probably has a long history.
GRACE: And now another of this year`s Top 10 CNN Heroes, Sean Gobin, a combat veteran who served Iraq and Afghanistan. When he returned home, he
hikes an entire Appalachian Trail and now helps other vets follow in his footsteps.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEAN GOBIN, TOP 10 CNN HERO: You`ve got eight hours a day to hike and your brain has no choice but to just relive a lot of these experiences that
you`ve got through, so all these experiences you`ve put away for years come to the surface, then you have to deal with them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: CNNheroes.com for all the top 10 heroes. You can vote for your favorite at CNN Hero of the Year.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:57:14] UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Watch the man with the white towel over his shoulder. You see him walk into the store and quickly make his way to
the bathroom.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s scary. You don`t know. I mean, there`s creeps everywhere.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police say a young teenage girl goes in after him and that`s where he sexually assaults her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: She`s not a teen, she`s just 12 years old and is in there with her family including her mother and siblings.
Jeff Boney is with us, associate editor at "Houston Forward Times," also with me, Dr. Lee Norman, the chief medical examiner, University of Kansas
Hospital.
Dr. Norman, what type of forensic evidence could we get?
NORMAN: Well, it depends on what actually happened in the restroom. If there was a struggle --
GRACE: She was raped.
NORMAN: -- then there could be all sorts of evidence. There could be blood. There could be bodily fluids if there was intercourse. There could
be torn fragments of clothing, hair, skin under the fingernails of the young girl. It could be quite a lot of forensic evidence, depending on the
struggle.
GRACE: Jeffrey Boney, how did the guy get away? Was he on foot? I mean, where did he go?
BONEY: You know, it`s quite interesting because this south side place is a small, wealthy suburb of Houston, Texas and so to be able to do something
like this and get away, it`s unbelievable, but they`re still on the lookout and what`s even more interesting is the detectives comments by saying that,
quote, "She was not necessarily all that unwilling, but at the age of 12, it does not matter."
GRACE: Don`t even, don`t even repeat that horrible thing, Jeff Boney. I read that.
Carissa Kranz, Parag Shah. Carissa, best defense.
KRANZ: Well, they`re claiming that this is a 20 something-year-old male. We have no evidence on who he is or what he looks like. That video is
almost impossible to figure out.
GRACE: OK. So you`re going to attack the video.
KRANZ: He could be 15 or 16 himself.
GRACE: OK, that`s a stretch. But good try.
Let`s remember right now, American hero, Police Officer Daniel Webster, 47, Albuquerque. Killed in the line of duty. Retired sergeant 1st class out
of the 82nd Airborne Division. Two Bronze Stars, remembered for his friendly ways, big heart and being a real-life Batman. Daughters, Rebecca,
Daniel and Ashley, seven grands, widow, Michelle.
Daniel Webster, American hero.
Thanks to all of our guests, but especially to you for being with us. Nancy Grace signing off. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern
and until then, good night, friend.
END
