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Nancy Grace
Charlie Sheen HIV-Positive. Aired 8-9:00p ET
Aired November 17, 2015 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news now, live, Tinseltown. Movie and TV superstar of "Two and a Half Men," "Platoon," "Hotshots," Major League,"
"Wall Street," Charlie Sheen confirms in a live interview he is HIV- positive and he has been for four years, Sheen paying literally millions of dollars in blackmail money to cover up his HIV secret, keep it all quiet as
he reportedly continues to sleep with dozens of partners, coming out about the infection only after an 18-month-long investigation by "The National
Enquirer" that breaks wide open.
At what point does this become aggravated assault or worse?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHARLIE SHEEN, ACTOR: I am, in fact, HIV-positive.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People have actually demanded money to stay silent.
SHEEN: I`ve paid those people.
We`re going to reason this out like adults in the interests of all involved.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) enough.
(LAUGHTER)
SHEEN: Enough to bring it into the millions.
We can get all the answers and the truth? Wow. Winning!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That`s from NBC`s "Today" and Warner Bros. TV.
And live, Scottsville (ph), a 7-year-old girl, Gabriella Doolan, (ph), goes missing from a Pee Wee football game with her mom. But just 25
minutes after being reported missing, her little body is found in an nearby creek. Cause of death, homicide.
At this hour, new details surrounding the death of a little Pee Wee football cheerleader and the hunt for the child`s killer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A town is left in fear after the body of a 7-year- old girl was found in the creek just a few hundred yards from where she was last seen by her mother.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s unimaginable, the senselessness of what`s happened.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And live, Indianapolis suburbs, a pastor`s gorgeous 12-weeks- pregnant wife, just 28, shot in the head in her own home, protecting her 1- year-old son from a home invader, that pastor husband cleared in the horrific death of his wife. Police say, We know who killed her.
Just released, grainy photos of Amanda`s alleged killer. Do you know this man?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To the individual that committed this crime, you`re not as good as you think you are. You left behind evidence.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Investigators say have surveillance videos, a vague description of a black male suspect and a getaway car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re serious about this. We`re coming to get you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening, I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight, live, Tinseltown. Movie and TV superstar of "Two and a Half Men," "Platoon," "Hotshots," Major League," "Wall Street"
Charlie Sheen confirms in a live interview he is HIV-positive and he has been for years, Charlie Sheen paying literally millions of dollars in
blackmail money to cover his HIV secret, keep it all quiet, as he reportedly continues to sleep with multiple partners, coming out about the
infection only after an 18-month-long investigation by "The National Enquirer" that`s breaking wide open. At what point does that become
aggravated assault or worse?
Joining me right now is Barry Levine, the executive editor, the director of news for "The National Enquirer," who is breaking the Charlie
Sheen story.
Barry Levine, let`s start at the beginning. Charlie Sheen is a movie and TV superstar. He comes out this morning on the "Today" show,
announcing that yes, in fact, he is HIV-positive. He is claiming he has known for four years, and that all of his partners that he has had were
told that he was HIV-positive. However, in the hours before we go to air, already people coming out of the woodwork saying they didn`t know.
Barry, let me start with your investigation. It reportedly lasted 18 months long. What started the investigation, Barry?
BARRY LEVINE, "NATIONAL ENQUIRER" (via telephone): Well, Nancy, yes, it`s true, we`ve worked on this story for 18 months. We only felt this
past -- in the past few days that we had enough material to put it over the top and actually publish this exhaustive investigation, which runs eight
pages in the paper that comes out tomorrow, a dozen reporters across the country, several times, to interview various witnesses and sources.
[20:05:01]We had at least 10 sources that we`ve compiled over the past year-and-a-half. Many of them have passed independent lie detector tests.
And we absolutely knew last week that we were ready to go with the story. We informed Charlie Sheen`s lawyer on Friday that we were publishing the
story.
And what you saw and what America saw and the world today is Charlie Sheen trying to get ahead of our story by going on the "Today" show with
Matt Lauer to tell his side before our investigation comes out.
GRACE: Everybody, you are seeing "Two and a Half Men" from Warner Bros. TV.
With me is Barry Levine, the executive editor and director of the news at "The National Enquirer." Charlie Sheen is painting himself as
essentially the hero for coming out and divulging the fact that he is HIV- positive. But according to this investigation, he has known for at least four years. And according to people now coming out of the woodwork, he
never told them he was HIV-positive when they engaged in sex. That`s a problem.
Let me ask you -- before I go to Charlie Sheen`s statement, his interview this morning, Barry Levine, why is it so incumbent upon you, why
is it so important to you that you out somebody with HIV? Why did you want to do that?
LEVINE: Well, Nancy, this is a situation -- as you know, this is the "Enquirer`s" mission. We`ve exposed John Edwards, who was leading a double
life, running for president. We exposed Tiger Woods because he was lying to America, carrying on against his wife and others.
And this is the "Enquirer`s" mission. This is a story where Charlie Sheen has continually gone out and he has continued to sleep with
individuals. And our report says that he has not told all of these -- all of these sexual partners that he is HIV-positive. And that, as you know,
is a crime in California.
GRACE: Everybody, you are seeing "Wall Street" from 20th Century Fox.
With me is Barry Levine, the executive editor and director of the news for "National Enquirer." I want you to see the interview we`re talking
about that Charlie Sheen conducted with Matt Lauer this morning on the "Today" show. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHEEN: I`m here to admit I am, in fact, HIV-positive. And I -- I have to put a stop to this -- this onslaught, this -- this barrage of -- of
attacks and of -- of -- of subtruths, and very -- very harmful and -- and - - and -- and material (ph) stories that -- that -- that are not -- have been threatening the health of so many others, which is -- which is --
couldn`t be farther from the truth.
MATT LAUER, CO-HOST: I want to read you something else from the letter you handed me. You said this is after the time of your diagnosis.
"The personal disbelief, karmic confusion, shame and anger led to a temporary yet abysmal descent into profound substance abuse and fathomless
drinking."
Was this that whole "tiger blood," "winning" period in your life? Was that a result, that meltdown we saw, a reaction to your diagnosis?
SHEEN: I -- I -- I wish I could blame it on that. That was more of a `roid rage. But this was -- this was on the heels of that, let me say,
yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That is Charlie Sheen on NBC`s "Today."
For those of you just joining us, the "Two and a Half Men" star of the big screen and the TV screen states today publicly that he is HIV-positive.
But this is on the cusp -- look at the timing. The "Enquirer," "The National Enquirer" story is breaking now after an 18-month-long
investigation.
According to Sheen himself, he has paid $10 million, approaching $10 million in hush money to keep the secret quiet. Why?
Here`s "Two and a Half Men" from Warner Bros. TV.
To Barry Levine from "The National Enquirer." I mean, I can`t help but notice the timing, that he comes out this morning with a friendly
interview with Matt Lauer when you guys are breaking the story in a couple of hours that he has been sleeping with people that did not know he was
HIV-positive? Is that what your story is going to include? Is that part of it?
LEVINE: Well, Nancy, there is no mystery as to why Charlie Sheen was given a softball interview by Matt Lauer today to basically try to get in
front of this huge, huge Hollywood scandal. And there`s no question he did it because he wanted to get out before we put the facts out there.
[20:10:00]And in our issue that hits newsstands tomorrow, we will report that at least four women have claimed that he exposed them to HIV.
Now, he said in the interview today that there were two sex partners that he had unprotected sex with that he had informed of his status.
However, he made it sound in his interview today that every sexual partner he had, he informed. And we are hearing a different story. And as
I said, we have multiple, multiple sources. We took our -- certainly took our time on publishing this. We waited until we felt we had absolute proof
in terms of e-mails and in terms of documents...
GRACE: Hold just on a moment, Barry Levine, "National Enquirer." When you say e-mails and text messages -- regarding what? How can an e-
mail or a text message show that not only is Sheen HIV-positive but he`s been sleeping with people and not telling them that?
LEVINE: Yes. Yes.
GRACE: I mean, how can a text message prove that?
LEVINE: (INAUDIBLE) e-mails and text messages we have involving (INAUDIBLE) because we wanted to put out there for a fact, if he tried to
run and hide from the story, that people close to him, girlfriends, ex- wives have said -- and we have proof of that -- that he had -- that he has HIV. We have copies of checks that have been paid. We have documents
related to some of the negotiations that have taken place. We wanted to make sure...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Negotiations. What negotiations?
LEVINE: ... damning proof that he is, indeed, HIV-positive before we published the story.
GRACE: And let me make this very clear, Barry. HIV is not a crime. HIV is not the problem in this story. The problem is being HIV and
allegedly continuing to sleep with people and not tell them you`re HIV. That is the problem.
We all have friends -- everybody listening right now -- me, all of us...
LEVINE: Nancy, I`m not disputing that. I`d like to read...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... know people that have HIV, know people that are in fear, believe that is the problem. That`s not the problem.
Barry, what were you just saying?
LEVINE: I was going to say, I`d like to read you and I`d like to quote from a specific source, who passed a polygraph test, a very key
individual in this story that we are not naming. And this is the quote. "Charlie had sex with multiple partners since learning his HIV status
without informing them of his potentially deadly HIV infection."
And the source went on -- the informant went on to tell us that he was basically playing Russian roulette with their lives. And that`s the fact.
That`s why we published this story.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:16:57]SHEEN: (INAUDIBLE) I probably took more than anybody could survive, you know?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What are we talking about? How much?
SHEEN: I don`t know, man. I was banging 7-gram rocks and finishing them because that`s how I roll. I have one speed, I have one gear, Go.
So...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How do you survive that?
SHEEN: Because I`m me. Because I`m me. I`m different. I just have a different constitution. I have a different brand, a different heart. I
have a different -- you know, I got tiger blood, man.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You don`t worry that you`re going to die when you take that many drugs?
SHEEN: Dying`s for fools.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That is from ABC`s "GMA." But in the last hours, Charlie Sheen goes to NBC`s "Today" show with Matt Lauer for an interview in which
he divulges he is HIV-positive.
Now, the timing is essential here. This is on the cusp, the cusp of a breaking blockbuster story by "The National Enquirer" that is 18 months,
nearly two years in the making on Sheen, alleging that Sheen has known for years that he is HIV-positive and has continued to sleep with sex partners
and not tell them he is HIV-positive.
Barry Levine, executive editor and director of the news for "The National Enquirer," is here. You read a statement or an e-mail just before
we went to break, Barry. Now, CNN has not confirmed it. What is that statement?
LEVINE: Well, that -- this is one -- this is from our interview, one of our sources told us, and certainly passed the lie detector test to this
point, that Charlie was having -- Charlie was having sex with multiple partners without informing them of the deadly infection. And it goes
against what he said today in his interview.
We also have -- this on the record from his -- and I will give you this -- from his jilted ex-fiancee, Scotteen Ross (ph), who`s also known in
the -- was known in the porn world as Brett Rossi. We have a videotape of her saying -- and pardon me for the language here. This is a quote from
her talking about Charlie Sheen. "You f`ing exposed me to HIV for a year- and-a-half." And this is her bitter charge against Charlie.
So I mean, we`re putting names to faces here. These are not all allegations from individuals that we are not naming. This is an individual
who was right in the middle of it all, and she herself was not told that Charlie had HIV.
GRACE: You are seeing "Major League" from Paramount Pictures.
That is Barry Levine from "National Enquirer." CNN or HLN has not confirmed what he was just saying, that story hitting tomorrow, tomorrow
morning.
Unleash the lawyers. With me, Yale Galanter, former lawyer for Charlie Sheen, joining me out of Ft. Lauderdale, Troy Slaten, veteran trial
lawyer out of LA.
All right, Yale, what is your defense?
[20:20:02]YALE GALANTER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, defense to what? I mean, I think what Charlie did this morning was one of the most courageous
things that I`ve ever seen occur with any client or former client.
GRACE: Are you serious?
GALANTER: And kudos to him. Oh, I`m more than serious, Nancy.
GRACE: OK...
GALANTER: "The National Enquirer" has the gall to intimate on your show that they`re serving some public purpose. The only thing that "The
National Enquirer" is trying to do is sell magazines, put money in their pocket. That`s why they were breaking this story. They`re not serving the
public good.
GRACE: OK...
GALANTER: What Charlie did this morning was serve the public good. He appeared on the show with his doctors, he came clean, he was courageous,
he was forthright. He ought to be applauded and not vilified on the show. He really did a wonderful thing this morning.
GRACE: OK, Yale, coming forward about HIV, I agree with you, is laudable. The problem that I`m talking about is potentially infecting sex
partners without telling them you are HIV. And if you want to gloss over that, fine. Go right ahead. But I`ve got a problem with it. Plus...
GALANTER: Nancy, there isn`t -- listen, there isn`t anybody in Charlie`s inner circle that did not know that Charlie was HIV-positive.
GRACE: I`m not talking about inner circle.
GALANTER: The reason these...
GRACE: I`m talking about...
GALANTER: The reason these people -- well, sex partners in the inner circle. I mean, you`re not intimate with somebody unless you`re in the
inner circle.
GRACE: So you`re claiming that these two women...
GALANTER: That`s number one. And number two...
(CROSSTALK)
GALANTER: Number two, Nancy...
GRACE: ... did not know. You`re saying they`re lying?
GALANTER: (INAUDIBLE) were able to sue him or attempt to sue him and attempt to blackmail him was because of his honesty, because if he was
trying to hide it, he did a lousy job at it.
GRACE: OK. OK, let`s get a handle on this.
Troy Slaten, I`m sure you can see the dichotomy of what Galanter and I are discussing. Yes, not one person on this panel tonight doesn`t have a
friend or an acquaintance that`s HIV-positive, all right? We all do. And we`re all suffering along with them, what they are going through. But to
have HIV and sleep with people and not tell them, that is like Russian roulette with their lives.
Now, my question to Galanter that he avoided I`m now directing to you. What would be a defense to that allegation?
TROY SLATEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: The defense is the truth. If he, in fact, told them that he was infected with HIV, then it`s not a crime, and
he`s not subject to civil liability, either. So that -- just because "The National Enquirer" is saying that somebody passed the polygraph -- and by
the way, those are not pass/fail -- doesn`t mean that it`s true.
And I think that the facts will come out, and we`re going to find out whether or not...
GRACE: Well, you know, actually...
SLATEN: ... in fact, he advised people he had this contagious, communicable disease.
GRACE: Actually, Candace Trunzo, senior news editor, Dailymail.com -- Candace, it`s not just "The National Enquirer" reporting that people are
now saying, He didn`t tell me, I had sex with him and now I`m in danger. I`m in danger of dying.
It`s not just "The National Enquirer." These ladies are now coming out, one discussed it on "Howard Stern." It`s not just "The Enquirer."
Yes, they want to sell a magazine. Fine. It`s America. Go make some money. Just don`t break the law.
What I`m talking about is not "The National Enquirer" being good or bad. I am talking about risking somebody`s life when you trust them enough
to sleep with them, when you feel you know them enough to sleep with them, and they withhold they`re HIV-positive?
Candace, women are now coming forward stating, He did not tell me.
CANDACE TRUNZO, DAILYMAIL.COM: Yes. And if you look at the Dailymail.com Web site, we can tell you that several women have already
come forward. These are women who lived with Charlie for a while. They were amongst his stable of women. He called them his goddesses. And they
have come forward, went to Stern and went to us, and they talk about the fact that...
GRACE: Now, here`s my question, Candace. We -- HLN and CNN -- have not independently confirmed what you`re saying.
TRUNZO: Right. Right.
GRACE: Who are these women that you are saying have come forward?
TRUNZO: Well, they`re women who he called his goddesses. They are -- we have photos of them with him on the site. You can see exactly who they
are, and they tell their story that they were never told.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:28:24]LAUER: Were these people that you had had sexual contact with and were claiming that you had transmitted the virus to them, or were
these people who simply found out about your status and were threatening to tell the world?
SHEEN: More the latter. They -- they -- I -- for some reason, I -- I -- I trusted them. They were -- they were deep in my inner circle, and I -
- I -- I thought that they could be helpful. And instead, they -- as I wrote, my -- my -- my trust turned to their treason (ph), you know?.
LAUER: So are we talking about lawsuits filed against you here, Charlie, or are we talking about shakedowns.
SHEEN: They`re talking about shakedowns. Talking about shakedowns. Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That is Charlie Sheen on NBC`s "Today," where he announces he is HIV-positive.
And if -- Barry Levine, executive editor, director of news, "National Enquirer," if you listen carefully to his response, he thought very
carefully before he answered when Lauer says, Are they all about threatening to expose your HIV secret, or are they people that claim you
gave them or exposed them -- exposed them -- to HIV? He thought and said, More telling my secret, which does mean, if you take his statement at face
value, that there are threats that he has exposed people, unknowingly to them, to HIV.
You`re seeing "Two and a Half Men" from Warner Bros. TV.
And that is the problem, Barry Levine. That`s the problem.
LEVINE: Well, Nancy, I want -- I want to point out -- and this -- this should be made clear from the beginning. The reason why "The National
Enquirer" did the story was because Charlie Sheen, once television`s highest-paid actor, a man who has fans across the world, has -- has taken
part in a massive cover-up, OK? This is why they dug into this story and why we continued to dig into it, for more than a year, under the threat of
wild lawsuits from his lawyers to expose this. I have to say, why didn`t Charlie Sheen come out in the very beginning, four years ago, and state to
America that he has HIV? Why did he continually go in this coverup mode and have to pay tens of millions of dollars over the course of four years
to continue to have sexual relations? Why didn`t he just come out in the very beginning? We wouldn`t be here today.
GRACE: That`s "Two and a Half Men" from Warner Brothers TV who I can think of a lot of reasons he may not want to come out with HIV. He
could`ve thought it would hurt his career. There are a million reasons. However, you`re bringing up the specter that he wanted to continue to have,
possibly, unprotected sex. That`s one theory. With me right now, former Hollywood madam who had Charlie Sheen as a client. Heidi Fleiss is joining
us. Miss Fleiss, thank you for being with us.
HEIDI FLEISS: Thank you.
GRACE: Miss Fleiss, were you surprised when you learned of Sheen`s admission this morning on the "Today" show?
HEIDI FLEISS: No. I had heard rumors about it. And they weren`t from prostitutes, either. I heard about it over a year, I`ve heard rumors.
GRACE: When you say not from prostitutes, I assume that you`re meaning regular people that he slept with or that knew him?
FLESS: Yes. I don`t, one did not sleep with him and one was a male. And the other were just random people.
GRACE: Question, have you heard his statements that he did not sleep with anyone without telling them he was HIV positive? Do you believe that?
FLEISS: I heard it, but -- what if he had protected sex and - and would that be a problem, too? If you have protected sex so you can`t
transmit the virus, although if you are a positive, is that illegal?
GRACE: To Dr. Dana Hawkinson, infectious diseases at University of Kansas Hospital. Doctor Hawkinson, thank you for being with us. I want to
understand a couple of things. First of all, there`s a difference between having AIDS and having HIV and being HIV positive. In a nutshell, if
that`s possible, what is the difference?
DR. DANA HAWKINSON, M.D.: Yeah, certainly. Having HIV infection is being exposed to the virus. And actually, the virus infecting your body,
your bloodstream, et cetera. Having AIDS is more of a definition based on certain diseases, such as infectious diseases as well as cancers. But also
relating to your CD4 count. And that`s what the HIV infects.
GRACE: Dr. Hawkinson, my friend that is positive. When you look at his blood, it doesn`t show up. He`s been on the cocktail for that long.
However, that does not mean he is no longer HIV positive. Is that correct?
HAWKINSON: Correct. Once -- at this point in time, with our medical therapy, once you`re HIV positive, you`re always HIV positive.
GRACE: Dr. Dana Hawkinson joining us at University of Kansas hospital. Dr. Hawkinson, is it possible to infect someone with HIV if you
use a condom?
HAWKINSON: Certainly. You know, HIV infection mostly spreads through blood, vaginal secretions, semen, things of that nature. So, certainly
there`s always a risk when you are dealing with those types of secretions. But certainly, the risk is quite low if it`s just simple penal-vaginal sex
using a condom.
GRACE: You are seeing "Scary Movie 3" from Miramax Films. Dr. Hawkinson, is it more likely to infect with HIV if you are using a lamb
skin condom versus other types of condoms?
HAWKINSON: Yes, that will not protect you from HIV.
GRACE: I`m sorry. I could not hear you. Could you repeat that?
HAWKINSON: Yes, that will not protect you.
GRACE: Back to Heidi Fleiss, former Hollywood madam who had Sheen as a client. Ms. Fleiss, you are familiar with his demand for hookers, for
escorts, as you call them. Question. Do you believe that it is Sheen`s SOP, standard operating procedure to use condoms?
[20:35:06]
FLEISS: In my day, Nancy, it seems rather rated "G" from where we are today. As a madam, I just cared about my money, to be honest. But the
girls loved him. I don`t know if there was always condoms used, or not. Probably not. But what could you do? All I could do is say use condoms.
But - and it`s -- one other thing, it`s not a deadly virus anymore if you take your medication.
GRACE: Well, that`s certainly true. But I don`t think anybody that`s hearing my voice right now would sign up for it even though it is
treatable. Heidi Fleiss, question, about how much money did Sheen supply you as you provided him with escorts?
FLEISS: It is a very small part of my business, probably less than a quarter of million dollars. It was a very small client of mine. It
definitely -- I`ve made millions of dollars. It was small. But he did -- girls loved him. Girls loved Charlie, they still do.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Live to Scottsville. A 7-year-old little girl, Gabriella Doolin, goes missing from a pee wee football game with her mom. Just 25
minutes after she is reported missing, her little body is found in a nearby creek. Cause of death, homicide. At this hour, new details surrounding
the death of the little peewee football cheerleader and the hunt for the child`s killer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gaby Doolin was cheering on her two older brothers who were playing youth football. She went missing. 30 minutes later, she
was found dead in this small pond.
Police are calling it a homicide based on the way the body was found and evidence found at the scene.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I`m going to go to James Gimmel, WJRW in just one moment. But first, I`m going to go to Dr. William Morrone, forensic pathologist,
medical examiner, renowned toxicologist out of medicine -. Dr. Maroney, just that one sentence that they immediately determined her death was a
homicide. I`m talking about a little seven-year-old girl, a pee wee football cheerleader. So, that says to me, a, that it didn`t look like she
had just fallen in the creek, it didn`t look like she had just drown. It was obvious at first sight, the child was a victim of homicide. Explain.
DR. WILLIAM MORRONE, D.O. FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Here`s what people look for. They look for unnatural wounds, bruises, and dysfunctional ways,
the clothing or protective garments are. On the body, if you see bruises, down face, floating, the first thing you`re going to say is this just
didn`t happen when they fell in and then they couldn`t breathe. And later, x-rays and a full physical examine autopsy. These things are evident right
on the scene.
GRACE: Let me break that down what Dr. Morrone is saying. I believe you`re saying that at first sight if you see her clothes have been
rearranged, for instance, her pants are down, her jacket is half way off, her shirt is askew, her shoe is missing, anything like that would suggest
she didn`t just fall into the water. Of course, if there are signs of ligature strangulation or a stab wound or something like that, that`s
extremely obvious.
To Marc Klaas, president founder of Klaas Kids Foundation. Within 20 minutes, Marc, let`s analyze this thing within 25 minutes of mommy
reporting, I can`t find her. I`m here at a pee wee football game. I`m here with other parents, with their children. I can`t find my daughter.
They put it on the loud speaker. 25 minutes, her dead body`s found, Marc. What deductions can you make?
MARC KLAAS, FOUNDER OF KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: It`s unbelievable, Nancy, it reminds me of the June 1995 kidnapping, and kidnapping of Morgan
Nick in Alma, Arkansas. Both very, very small towns. Both sports venues for little children. Little children running around and all of a sudden, a
six-year-old or 7-year-old child disappears off the face of the earth. I believe that this was probably the work of a sexual predator who was there
for the specific reason of trolling for little kids and then took advantage of an opportunity.
[20:43:56]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police are searching for a killer. After the body of a 7-year-old girl was found dead in a creek behind a school. Just
minutes after she was reported missing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The investigation is being handled by the detectives.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who killed Gabby?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Joining me right now in addition to James Gemmell from WJRW is trooper Barry Eaton joining us from the Kentucky State Police post 3.
Trooper, thank you so much for being with us. Trooper Eaton, who found her body?
TROOPER BARRY EATON, KENTUCKY STATE POLICE POST 3 SPOKESMAN: We had as soon as it was announced and it was noticed that she was missing, there
was a large group effort there of folks there on the premises who began looking for her. It`s our understanding that a civilian, a layperson had
found her or at least spotted what they believed to be little Gabby. And it was then pointed out to law enforcement who was then able to identify
that it was her.
GRACE: Trooper Barry Eaton joining us from Bowling Green. Trooper, question. How close was her body to a nature trail that was adjacent to
the football area?
EATON: That nature trail was within the close proximity there in that wooded area. As far as exactly how far it is off that trail, I can`t tell
you that specifically.
GRACE: Trooper, were her injuries obvious to the naked eye?
EATON: I`m sorry. Could you repeat that?
GRACE: Were her injuries obvious to the naked eye?
EATON: What I can say in regards to that is that from when we initially got on scene, we were pretty certain that we were dealing with
and it`s been handled since then that this was indeed a homicide and not just some accident.
GRACE: To James Gemmell, WJRW. James, thank you for being with us. Along with Trooper Eaton. You know, these are many, many parents, many,
many children there.
[20:50:03]
It wasn`t just this one game. It was a tournament going on, it`s my understanding. What were the age of the players that were playing? I know
it`s pee-wee, but does that go into middle school?
JAMES GEMMELL, WJRW: Well, it was 11 years old. Her brother was playing in that pee-wee game. And in fact, Gabby is normally a cheerleader
during the regular season, Nancy. But because this was a youth all-star game, she was actually on the sidelines.
GRACE: To Lauren Costine, a clinical psychologist, you know, another issue, Dr. Costine, is that I, like all the other parents, I would assume
that when you go to Little League or, you know, "Y" games, you are there with a lot of other parents. You think they`ve got children. And you are
lulled into a sense of complacency. There`s just a lot of moms and dads here. Not necessarily true. Especially, this was a tournament involving.
Many, many people. There are uncles, there are older brothers. I mean, a man did this, there`s no doubt about that. But there are a lot of people,
not just parents and there is that lulling into complacency that occurs at events like this.
LAUREN COSTINE, PH.D. CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes, there is, unfortunately. And this is every parent`s first nightmare. But we all
have to be watching our children at all times in these public kind of - public arenas. You never know when there`s a predator around.
GRACE: Yes, I want to go back to Trooper Barry Eaton. Was there any physical evidence left at the scene? Is there a chance that the
perpetrator left a scarf, a hat, touched a fence post, dropped a receipt? Anything of that nature, whatsoever?
EATON: I can tell you, our detectives were able to collect some evidence there at the scene. We have got the evidence has been taken, it`s
being processed. There`s things that`s been sent to the lab. We do have several pieces of evidence that we have recovered, yes.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:56:36]
GRACE: Live in the suburbs, a pastor`s gorgeous, pregnant wife, 28, shot in the head in her own home, there with her one-year-old son. A
deadly home invader. The pastor, husband, is cleared in the death of his wife. Police say we know who killed her. Just released, grainy photos of
a man that`s alleged killer. Do you know this man?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Top law enforcement officials didn`t mince words, making it clear they are making progress in their investigation into the
murder of Amanda Blackberg.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A crime like this, you don`t get a second chance when it comes down to murder, in my opinion.
GRACE: Cameras attached to a home gave police a snapshot of that unknown suspect.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: To Candace Trunzo, senior news editor DailyMail.com. Am I correct, the pastor, the husband is cleared, correct?
CANDACE TRUNZO, NEWS EDITOR, DAILYMAIL.COM: 100 percent clear. 100 percent clear. There was - He was at the gym. There was surveillance of
him going in and going out. 100 percent clear.
GRACE: OK. Done deal. He`s out of it. Now, this guy, to Ryan McConnell, neighbor of the victim, you told me last time we talked, that
about two doors down, there was a burglary early that morning. And you and I, you know, theorized that`s really too coincidental not to be connected.
So, Ryan, this picture that they have released, I understand that`s all that they have got. But did anybody in the neighborhood see anything else?
RYAN MCCONNELL: There was some people who witnessed some strange activity in the neighborhood, Nancy, that was of the suspect, the same
individual that was caught on the camera.
GRACE: To Vincent Hill, former cop, author of "Playbook to a Murder," Vincent, what do we do now?
VINCENT HILL: Well, Nancy, just because the husband has been cleared publicly, doesn`t mean he has been cleared privately.
GRACE: Can you look at that picture? Vincent, I mean I like you. But here is a picture of a guy that apparently broke in somewhere else, the
husband didn`t do it.
HILL: I understand that, Nancy. But no one has to be at a location to plan a murder. A murder for hire. I`m not saying this is the case.
GRACE: OK. Yeah. You are not letting it go here. You are not letting it go. I say, I respect that.
Okay, let`s remember.
We remember American hero South Carolina Police Officer Stacy Case, 37, killed in the line of duty. Served Columbia police and the Army.
National Defense Service Medal, Army Commendation Medal. Criminal justice degree. Parents Ronald and Josephine. Three brothers. Stacy Case,
American hero.
And tonight, we remember Tony Brookler. Son of our dear friend, Pat Lalama (ph). Son, a defense attorney Anthony Brookler. A kind soul.
Leaves behind widow Megan, children Isabella and Johnny James. Tony Brookler. Good night, friend.
And tonight, Mercy Care helps the homeless annual coat drive. Go to mercycare.org for drop off spots.
Thanks to our guests, but especially to you for being with us. Nancy Grace signing of. I`ll see you tomorrow night. 8 o`clock sharp Eastern,
and until then, good night friend.
END
