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Nancy Grace
Stepmom Fakes Videos to Hide Stepdaughter`s Injuries/Teen Driver Kills 2 While Texting. Aired 8-9:00p ET
Aired November 24, 2015 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news now, live, upscale, Connecticut, where a 24-year-old mother allegedly stages videos to cover up her little
stepdaughter`s mysterious injuries. ombshell now. Do cops find evil Stepmommy`s cellphone videos forcing the girl to beat her own head on a
bunk bed?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did a young Connecticut woman physically abuse her stepdaughter and make the little girl pretend to hurt herself?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ``Why are you hitting your head again?``
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ``Because I want to.``
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ``Why?``
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ``Because people are mad at me.``
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And live, Minnesota, a female driver`s friends literally beg her, beg her to stop texting and get off her cellphone. Police say she tells
them to "F" off just before she allegedly blows through a red light, plowing into a young dad and his 10-year-old little girl, killing them
both.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Teen driver was texting on her phone and blew through a red light and plows into another car, killing a man and his 10-year-old
daughter.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) 3,000 pounds of mass through an intersection and tearing the family apart.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And live, Albany, a teen boy allegedly hazed to death, forced to drink himself dead with vodka by fraternity brothers in a brutal initiation
game. In the last hours, we uncover the horrific details of Trevor`s (ph) death.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: According to court documents, forced Stuffy (ph) to drink 60 ounces of vodka. And police confirm his blood alcohol level was
.58.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s crazy. It`s unbelievable. Like, you can`t even put it into words.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And live, Palm Bay (ph), where a man in a wheelchair actually charged with DUI, drunk driving?
Hello. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell now, live, upscale Connecticut. A 24-year-old mom allegedly stages videos, creates videos to cover up her little stepdaughter`s
mysterious injuries. But do police find evil Stepmommy`s cell phone videos where she is forcing the 5-year-old little girl to beat her head onto her
own bunk bed?
All right, abusing a child, bad enough. Oh, yeah, cry, cry, cry in court. Let`s see Stepmommy in court. I want to see that, again. Here`s Felicia
O`Brien in court. OK, there you go. Here come the waterworks, got to have a little lip tremble, a little Kleenex action.
Well, she wasn`t crying, according to our sources, when she`s forcing a 5- year-old little girl to be on a cellphone video beating her own head, a little 5-year-old girl forced to beat her own head against a bunk bed while
the stepmommy asks her questions. Oh, oh, yes. She`s going to get busted.
Vinnie Penn, host of ``The Vinnie Penn Project`` on WELI and WPOP-- Vinnie, thank you for being with us. Tell me about this stepmommy, first of all,
this Felicia O`Brien. What do we know about her?
VINNIE PENN, ``VINNIE PENN PROJECT`` (via telephone): Well, what we know about her is she`s 24 years old. And in-- this has been a hot topic on my
show since it happened. The discussion of mental health has been a hot topic on my show nationwide--
GRACE: Whoa, whoa! I`m all about your show, Vinnie. Congratulations. You`re awesome. Your shows are great. Now, rephrase the question! Tell
me what you know about this girl, not your awesome show, OK? Tell me about her, Felicia.
PENN: OK. What we know about Felicia is that she staged these videos. There is a track record that she claims there`s mental health issues here,
which is really apalling because we have legislators in Connecticut right now banging their own heads, figuratively, against the wall, trying to come
up with the money for mental health services in Connecticut.
So for her to play this card is really even more appalling, that she`s hiding behind the guise of not getting services for the child, when that
clearly isn`t the case. There`s a hole in the bathroom wall--
GRACE: Let`s get down to it.
PENN: --the exact height--
GRACE: Matt Zarell--
PENN: --of the child that does say otherwise.
GRACE: OK, now I`m hearing something that I can deal with. All right, what the politicians are doing in your state-- you know what? I can`t help
that. You guys voted them in. It`s your stew, now you cook in it. But this-- I can do something about this.
You`re telling me, Vinnie Penn, that there is a hole in the wall the same height as the little girl? Did I hear that? And that`s a yes/no, by the
way.
PENN: Yes, there is--
GRACE: Yes. OK--
PENN: --with blood--
GRACE: Uh-uh! Yes/no. Yes/no.
Matt Zarrell, give me some facts. Give-- there`s the hole in the wall that Vinnie is talking about from ``The Vinnie Penn Project.`` Look at that
hole in the wall.
Now, tell me what else we know, Matt Zarrell. I want to hear about the girl`s injuries. She`s 5 years old. This is the stepmommy. I guess while
Daddy`s away, Stepmommy`s in charge. What were the injuries to the little girl? Are they-- do they jive with having hit her head against a bunk bed,
Matt?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): No, they don`t. Police say it is inconsistent with what the mother is claiming. And there
are multiple trips, Nancy, to the emergency room. Each time, the girl had different injuries. And each time, O`Brien allegedly said that the 5-year-
old is hitting her head on the bunk bed ladder. One of them, Nancy, you`ve got severe injuries to the face and eyes, including one bruise that caused
her eyes to swell shut.
GRACE: You know what I`m thinking about, Vinnie Penn? I`m thinking about this through the eyes of a 5-year-old girl who comes home every day to a
stepmommy and endures what?
What were the injuries, Matt Zarrell? What were the injuries on this little girl?
ZARRELL: You`ve got injuries to the face and eyes with bruising causing her eyes to swell shut, multiple other bruises that were deemed suspicious.
There were finger-shaped bruising consistent with grabbing and squeezing- type injuries. And there are injuries consistent with forceful hair- pulling or severe blunt force trauma.
GRACE: Vinnie Penn, ``The Vinnie Penn Project,`` WELI, WPOP-- Vinnie, where is the father during all of this? Just curious.
PENN: If only I could answer that question, Nancy. Also, where is the birth mother in all this? All I hear from is the woman in question`s
father himself saying, Oh, we`ve been fighting this fight for a year. The- - nobody`s helped her. DCF hasn`t helped her. My daughter`s been framed! He actually has the nerve to throw down the word "framed," as if to suggest
the father and the birth mother are in cahoots in some way.
GRACE: Are you saying that the stepmother`s husband-- that`s the 5-year- old girl`s father-- is claiming his new wife is being framed? Is that what you just said?
PENN: That is what her father, the stepmother`s father--
GRACE: Oh, OK. Got it.
PENN: --claims she`s being framed.
GRACE: Being framed. All right. You know what? Let`s take a look at what we`ve got. Listen to these tapes.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ``What are you doing?``
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ``Hitting my head.``
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ``Why are you hitting your head?``
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ``Because I want to.``
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ``Why would you want to hit your head? Me and Daddy told you that`s not OK. We told you that`s not all right. Now, look at
you. Look at you. Not OK. Not OK. Get in the dining room now.
``Why are you hitting your head again?``
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ``Because I want to.``
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ``Why?``
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ``Because people are mad at me.``
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ``You know what? You can`t hit your head just because people are mad at you. That`s not OK. Oh, my God. Go in the
dining room. I have to follow you every time you go to the bedroom now? You lie to me and tell me you have to go to the bathroom. Why are you
lying to me? Because now I can`t trust you. You tell me you had to go to the bathroom, and I wait for you to go to the bathroom, and that`s what
you`re doing? You`re hitting your head?``
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ``Yeah.``
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ``That`s not OK.``
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Marc Klaas, president, founder of Klaas Kids Foundation, this is one of the sickest child abuse cases I`ve ever seen, not in the sense of
the abuse itself, but these faked cell phone videos where she makes little girl beat her head on a bunk bed to cover up what the stepmother`s
allegedly doing to her!
MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: Well, she`s trying to cover up her own sadism, is what she`s doing. This woman is clearly angry, out of control,
sadistic, scheming and conniving. And I think it`s worth owning (ph), Nancy, they found-- they found a hole in the wall of the bathroom that was
covered up by towels that exactly fit the size of this little girl`s head. It sounds like this woman was bashing her head into the wall of the
bathroom until it caved in.
GRACE: So Matt Zarrell, how did the whole thing blow wide open? Why do we, our show, our program-- why do we, along with the police, think this
girl right here, 24-year-old Felicia O`Brien, is beating the child and forcing her to take part in these videos?
ZARRELL: Well, there`s two reasons. One is because a number of the videos appear to be outtakes, according to police, where O`Brien even forgets what
she`s going to say.
But more important are photos on that same phone. Photos taken of the victim show bruising on her forehead and around her eyes before any--
before any of these videos were shot by the mother.
GRACE: So the bruising and the indicia of child abuse existed before the Stepmommy gets the great idea to fake these videos of the girl abusing
herself.
Ben Levitan, telecommunications expert out of Raleigh, what are outtakes?
BEN LEVITAN, TELECOMMUNICATIONS EXPERT (via telephone): Nancy, this woman apparently did multiple videos, trying to get this story right, and she
apparently deleted the videos that didn`t work out, the outtakes, the practice ones.
She-- for some reason, police had probable cause to search her phone. When they searched her phones, they found those deleted practice videos. That`s
pretty revealing as to what these people were doing.
GRACE: So the mom thinks that she deletes the videos, the fake videos?
For those of you just joining us, 24-year-old stepmom Felicia O`Brien is now suspected of abusing, horribly abusing her 5-year-old little stepgirl.
Now, what she has done is handed over videos of the stepdaughter, just 5 years old, beating herself, viciously banging her head against the bunk
beds.
But what she didn`t get-- do I understand this right, Ben Levitan? So when she deletes the practice videos that didn`t work out correctly, she leaves
them, what, in a trash bin on her cell phone?
LEVITAN: That`s right, Nancy. For some reason, police must have had some suspicion because they did a forensic on her phone. Rather than just
believe those videos she showed on her phone, they did a forensic examination and found the deleted files.
When you delete anything on a computer, Nancy-- we know this-- it doesn`t go away. It just goes off your list of available videos, but it is still
there. They found those videos of her practicing this, Nancy.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Randy Kessler, defense attorney, Atlanta, Robin Ficker, veteran defense attorney, Maryland.
All right, to you, Randy Kessler. This woman`s not crazy. She`s crazy like a fox. She forgot to take out the trash. She did not empty the trash
on her cell phone. Cops have totally busted her in the practice videos, where she`s making the little girl beat herself, a 5-year-old girl.
Defense?
RANDY KESSLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right. So it looks like she might be guilty of the videos, but what was she covering up? Was she covering for
maybe the father or somebody else who did something bad to this child? We`ve got to prove or you`ve got to prove or the prosecution has to prove
that she committed these acts, not that she tried to cover them up but that she actually did them.
That`s the crime, right? It`s child abuse, not covering up child abuse. That she may be guilty of, covering up something. But did she actually do
it? Where`s the proof that she did it? Is the child going to testify? Was there eyewitness testimony? Was there video surveillance? What do we
have that proves her doing these acts?
GRACE: You know, Robin Ficker, the fact that she is creating these videos, deleting the ones that don`t work out, that don`t support her scenario-- if
the father had been the beater, which I do not think he is-- I think it`s this woman that`s been charged-- would trying to cover it up and make these
videos make her a co-conspirator? Because I say it would.
ROBIN FICKER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I`d challenge the warrant whereby they searched for these videos--
GRACE: Oh, dear.
FICKER: --on the phone. Maybe we have a little Drew Barrymore here who is actually hitting her head. Maybe she`s been watching ``The Exorcist.``
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Live, Minnesota, a female driver`s friends literally beg her, beg her to stop texting and get off her cellphone. Police say she tells her
friends to "F" off just before she allegedly blows through a red light, plowing into a young father and his 10-year-old little girl, killing them
both.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A teenage girl driving and texting refuses to put down the phone and focus on the road. Just after allegedly telling friends in
the pickup truck she doesn`t care if she crashes, police say the girl drives through a red light intersection and plows into another car, killing
a man and his 10-year-old daughter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: David Kuharski joining us, the news director, KDAL. David, thank you for being with us. How do we know that her friends were-- OK, that`s
breaking my heart. Look at this little girl. That is Cassy, just 10 years old. That is her father, Charles, their family forever torn apart because
this girl, teen driver-- she`s almost 18, Karlie Bollig (ph)-- is texting and driving, talking on her cellphone. Her friends beg her to quit. And
she says, "F`` off, all right?
She plows through a red light and slams into them, killing them. David Kuharski, KDAL, how do we know that she was texting at the time of the
crash?
DAVE KUHARSKI, KDAL (via telephone): Well, one of the riders in the truck with Bollig told investigators that she had been on the phone, and she
asked her-- she asked Bollig eight to nine times to stop texting and driving, to get off of the phone. And a subsequent to search warrant
determined that she had received and sent several messages through Facebook.
GRACE: You know, I`m looking at these pictures, and I`m thinking about how every morning, his wife wakes up and he`s not there in bed next to her.
And it probably seems like a horrible dream that her husband is dead, the father of their two children, that her daughter, her 10-year-old little
girl Cassy, is gone.
How does she explain that to the little boy? Your sister and your daddy are in heaven? Why? Because this girl texted and drove, telling her
friends to (EXPLETIVE DELETED) when they say, Stop texting? Now, this guy, this awesome husband and father, is dead? The baby girl, the girl 10 years
old is dead?
You know, Ben Levitan, telecommunications expert, David Kuharski with KDAL was telling us what her friends in the car were saying, were begging her to
stop texting. But you can pinpoint it, can`t you, to the minute, her texts and the crash and the 911 call? What do you know, Ben?
LEVITAN: Nancy, this is one of my pet peeves. I do these cases every day. One out of four accidents is attributed to cell phone distraction today.
Nancy, this is why-- if I find from the cellphone records that you are on the phone, the driver was on the phone while talking on the cellphone, I
can testify that that person was the same as being drunk at .08.
If they were texting, it`s six times worse than that, Nancy. If you are texting while driving, it`s the same as being impaired at .48, Nancy. It`s
ridiculous! And it`s one of the biggest problems we have on the highways today.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: According to the complaint, her passengers on eight or nine occasions told Bollig to stop using her phone, but she refused.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re not supposed to be on the phone while you`re driving.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This crash had such a horrific outcome for this family.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: This girl tells friends to "F" off when they literally beg her to stop texting and driving. She curses them out. Now, we can`t legally show
you her picture. This girl, 17-year-old Karlie Bollig, because she`s a minor. Now, in most jurisdictions, a 17-year-old charged with a homicide,
much less two homicides, is going to be treated as an adult. So we`ll find out what`s going to happen here with Karlie Bollig.
But to Stacey Newman. Isn`t it true they actually had to go into the crashed car and find blood and hair on the glass and the seats to figure
out who was sitting where at the time of the crash?
STACEY NEWMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, yeah, there was an alleged cover-up. Right after the crash, everyone in that car, in Karlie`s car,
said she wasn`t driving, it was actually the boyfriend who was driving because he was the only one--
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, Stacey! Stacey, Stacey, Stacey Newman! Did I hear the two words cover-up, with a hyphen in between them? So not
only do I have a dead father, I`ve got a dead 10-year-old girl and a cover- up. A cover-up what? What cover-up?
NEWMAN: They were trying to say that she wasn`t even behind the wheel at the time of the crash, it was actually her boyfriend, because he`s the only
one in that car with a valid driver`s license.
But that evidence you just spoke about tells police exactly where everybody was sitting in the car, placing her behind the wheel. And that cellphone
she was texting on that caused this crash-- that was found down by the brake pedal in the front driver`s seat.
GRACE: Text message 7:49 through 7:57. 911 call, 7:59.
Joel Feldman, president and founder To End Distracted Driving-- Joel`s daughter killed by a distracted driver, OK? That is why Joel Feldman is
with us. His daughter was killed by a distracted driver.
Joel, I am so sick about this case. There`s a picture of beautiful Casey. Weigh in, Joel.
JOE FELDMAN, DAUGHTER KILLED BY DISTRACTED DRIVER: Well, Casey was killed by a distracted driver. And you`re absolutely right when you talked about
the widow and the other members of that family, that it`s basically a life sentence of wondering what would have been and thinking about each and
every day without a husband and not having your little girl. I know all about that.
GRACE: You know what? Just hearing you say that, Joel, saying, I know all about that-- until you are in those shoes, until you live through it
yourself-- no idea the pain of waking up in the morning or in the middle of the night, thinking, Oh, that was a horrible dream! That was terrible!
And then you realize it`s all true.
To this day, Joel, your daughter`s death by a distracted driver haunts you. Explain to the viewers who don`t-- who have never lived through it what
it`s like.
FELDMAN: Well, your viewers, many of them, are going to be moms and dads. And I can enjoy life. I do things. And then I think about it. I`m called
back and I say, Gosh, my daughter`s dead. It`s as simple as, I`m alive, Casey`s dead. I have a future, my child doesn`t.
And that`s something that no parent can ever really come to terms with. You know, it`s birthdays, it`s holidays, it`s Thanksgiving coming. It`s
Thanksgiving. It`s weddings. I go to weddings and see other dads walking their daughters down the aisle. And I know that`ll never be for me and
it`ll never be for Casey.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:30:00]`
really come to terms with. It`s birthdays, it`s holidays, it`s Thanksgiving coming. It`s Thanksgiving, it`s weddings, I go to weddings
and I see other dads walking their daughters down the aisle. And I know it`ll never be for me and never be for Casey.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Live to Albany, a teen boy allegedly hazed to death. The boy forced to drink himself dead with vodka by fraternity brothers in a brutal
initiation game. Well, in the last hours, we uncover the horrific details of Trevor`s death.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They located a male victim, 19-year-old Trevor Duffy, who is unconscious.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Duffy and other pledges were required to drink large amounts of alcohol at the unsanctioned fraternity home on Hamilton Street.
Duffy`s blood alcohol content recorded at .58.
[20:35:00]
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When rush week comes around, you know it`s rush week, you know what`s going on.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is a really real problem.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Jim Franco, host of "Franco and Friends." Thank you so much for being with us, Jim. It`s hard for me to understand forcing
someone to drink until they`re comatose. This victim is a young teen boy. And he was forced to drink vodka until he died. Until he literally died.
Drunk until he died. What do we know, Jim?
JIM FRANCO: Thank you for having me. For starters, he was forced to drink about 60 ounces of straight-up vodka right from the bottle. And on that
night, and he did die. And so far, seven fraternity members, I use the term loosely, because they were an unsanctioned fraternity. The colleges
calling them more of a group of people that kind of hung out together. They weren`t an official fraternity, and they all turned themselves into
police. They answered charges of hazing in the first-degree.
GRACE: You are looking at Trevor Duffy, a teen boy at University of Albany, Suni, just a sophomore. This young boy forced to drink vodka until
he literally died. Goes comatose. With me, also, Justin Freiman on the story. What do we know about the circumstances leading up to the death?
FREIMAN: Nancy, we know that this was a party at an unsanctioned fraternity. And it was called handle night. And part of the initiation
was all of this drinking. And after this poor guy died, his blood alcohol content was seven times over the legal limit. Seven times.
GRACE: You know, with me, Dr. Joy M. Carter, chief forensic pathologist, author of "I Speak for the Dead." Dr. Carter, thanks for being with us. I
want to understand how much vodka they forced the boy to drink. How much would that be? Seven times the legal limit?
CARTER: Well, thank you, Nancy. It looks like he had a blood level of over .5. That`s a fatal level. You know, initially, you feel euphoria for
drinking and then the central nervous system is depressed. Everything begins to shut down. This was acute alcohol poisoning.
GRACE: Acute alcohol poisoning. Blue, purple face and lips, found with drool dripping from his nose and mouth. .583. In most jurisdictions,
drunk driving is .08. He had brain tissue deprived of oxygen, he was so drunk. Dr. Carter, what would he have experienced? What would he have
lived through before his death?
CARTER: Well, he would have hallucinations, out of body experience, loss of touch with reality, lack of coordination, change in his body
temperature, severe vomiting, and could have some liver and kidney damage or even shutdown, dark urine. His central nervous system is collapsing,
he`s going to have effects to all of his internal organs. This is not a --
GRACE: Why would his face turn purple and blue, Dr. Carter? Why would that happen?
CARTER: Because his brain is affected by the level of alcohol that causes a sudden dehydration of the brain. And the brain controls your breathing.
So he is suffocating, he`s getting lack of oxygen, because his lungs aren`t working, his heart`s not going to be working. Throws the body into
shutdown mode.
GRACE: You`re seeing pictures of a teen boy forced to drink vodka literally until he`s dead. The legal limit for drunk driving is .08. His
blood alcohol was over .5, vomiting, seizures, low body temperature, pale or blue-ish skin. Basically, going into a stupor, choking on vomit. Brain
damage from seizures until finally you`re dead. Seizures. Alcoholic seizures. This boy was no drinker. And now he`s dead.
To David Stolleman, president of Campus Speak. Question to you. David Stolleman, from my experience, a big brother or a big sister is somebody to
help you out, to help guide you as a mentor through college life so you adapt to it and you succeed and you do well. Was his big brother part of
this? His so-called big brother? David Stolleman?
STOLLEMAN: This is terrible. This is not a fraternity. This was a gang. This is no more a fraternity than someone painting golden arches across
their front door and calling themselves McDonald`s. This was an unrecognized group of people that got together that may --
[20:40:00]
GRACE: So you`re saying Zeta Beta Tau did not exist? You`re saying Zeta Beta Tau did not exist?
STOLLEMAN: They have a chapter on campus. It`s, again, like I painted the McDonald`s sign on the door, but there`s a McDonald`s down the street.
This is, none of these members were actually initiated ever into that fraternity.
GRACE: Is that the defense? Seriously?
STOLLEMAN: No, there is absolutely no defense for what --
GRACE: It wasn`t a real fraternity? Zeta Beta Tau was not what? What were they, kicked out by national? Tell me.
STOLLEMAN: Well, a number of years ago, they got closed and continued to operate. Because --
GRACE: Whoa, whoa. Did I hear you say they got closed? Zeta Beta Tau got closed? So they were a real fraternity?
STOLLEMAN: They were years before.
GRACE: Why am I even talking about this? Who cares if they`re a real fraternity. They call themselves -- if it looks like a duck, it quacks
like a duck, it walks like a duck, it is a duck. They are saying they`re Zeta Beta Tau. They are a little group. They socialize with each other.
They have rituals, they have initiation. It`s a fraternity.
STOLLEMAN: They had no ritual ceremonies from what anything I`ve read. They got together, they drank, they threw parties and they fought from what
I understood.
GRACE: Sounds like every other fraternity on campus.
STOLLEMAN: Actually, that`s not the case. Actually, that`s not fair for you to paint all fraternities.
GRACE: I`m not painting all fraternities that way. So what`s the difference? They don`t dress up? And they don`t go in the church basement
and have some little ritual and have a little handshake? That`s the difference?
STOLLEMAN: No, there`s a very big difference between factions. If you look at the development and the transformative, positively transformative
experience that fraternities are providing around the country and at that campus, it`s a stark contrast to what that group is doing and what that
university is allowing them to do. Unlike other -- unlike other Suni schools that are actively dealing with underground groups, Suni Albany says
if we act like they`re not there, we don`t have to take responsibility.
GRACE: You know what, Mr. Stolleman?
STOLLEMAN: Yes?
GRACE: For a couple of years in my college life, I was Greek. I was independent two years and Greek two years. And some of the most lovely
ladies I`ve ever known were part of that sorority, as well as the ones I met as independent.
I hear what you say -- what you`re saying. That there are fraternities and there are sororities that do good things. But let me tell you something,
Mr. Stolleman, and I know you already know it. There are fraternities and sororities that do horrible things. Maybe not yours.
STOLLEMAN: Absolutely.
GRACE: Maybe not the ones you know about. But for us to say, oh, it`s not a real fraternity, you know what, they say they`re in a fraternity, they
were at one time, and they did this thing according to police. And this boy is dead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:47:30]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: According to court documents, they forced Duffy to drink 60 ounces of vodka, and police confirm his blood alcohol level was
.58.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s crazy, unbelievable. You can`t put it into words.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: You know, you work your whole life for your dream. Your dream is for your children to do better than you did. To give them a college
education, to give them what they need to have a happy life, long after you`re gone. That`s what that young boy`s parents did, Trevor Duffy. He
goes to university, he gets in with this so-called fraternity, and now he`s dead. Zeta Beta Tau.
Justin, apparently, when they`re saying it`s an underground fraternity. What does that mean? And frankly, why am I having this conversation? Who
cares if they`re underground, above ground, in a house, in a condo, meeting in a student union, who cares. They had this initiation ritual, and he`s
dead. Do I need to know more than that? But let me amuse my other guests and explain, what do you mean by underground fraternity?
FREIMAN: Sure, Nancy. What happens is usually the fraternities are recognized by universities and they have to follow certain rules that the
national fraternity puts out. This one doesn`t have to follow anything. It`s basically just a little club on the side, it`s underground, it is
flying under the radar, and they`re doing whatever they want to do, it seems.
GRACE: Well, I know this much. They have been thrown out before, so they do exist. And, again, irrelevant. Because the boy`s dead. Adi Jaffe is
with us. Addiction specialist. Did you hear this crazy amount of vodka they made him chug?
JAFFE: That`s an insane amount of drinking, Nancy.
GRACE: It`s deadly.
JAFFE: You`re talking about 40 drinks about, that`s the kind of level that would really floor anybody, unless you`re a daily drinker of a pint of
vodka at a time. That is asking for death at the time.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Robin Ficker, defense attorney out of Maryland, and Randy Kessler, defense attorney out of Atlanta, OK, Robin and
Randy, you have both seen, give me your best defense.
[20:50:00]
KESSLER: Best defense is, you know what? Everybody there was young. Everybody there was young and grown, and yes, it`s not a perfect defense,
but people mature and people grow up. And the school has a responsibility. They`ve got to monitor everybody there. They know there are young kids.
This is something young kids do all across the world. The school had to intervene.
GRACE: Put him up, please.
KESSLER: The school`s going to have some issues.
GRACE: ,Okay I don`t know where, where did you go to school, Randy Kessler?
KESSLER: I went to Emory law school.
GRACE: Okay. And you`re saying that this is normal, that students do this all around the world? Because I never, this was never done to me. In
fact, let me tell you something. If some girl walked across the room holding a drink in her hand? She`s out, OK, out, o-u-t.
KESSLER: I`m sure there were people in your school--
GRACE: A boy kissed me on the dance floor, I couldn`t get initiated for six months.
KESSLER: Are you saying people don`t get drunk in every school?
GRACE: You`re saying that this is commonplace. I did not see it happening.
KESSLER: No, I didn`t say commonplace. I said it happens all across the world.
GRACE: Yes, you said every student around the world.
KESSLER: Not every student.
GRACE: If it happened at your program at Emory, that`s your can of worms to deal with, but I don`t think the defense is everybody does it, because
everybody doesn`t do it.
KESSLER: No. I am saying the school has a responsibility. They take kids straight out of high school. They`re living at home, they are monitored by
their parents, all of a sudden, there`s no monitors, nobody except their peers. This is something the school has to control and has to understand
what`s going on. It`s on the school.
GRACE: Okay. Robin, I think I`ve got your ear straight, what`s your defense for these guys?
FICKER: This case is a lot of hooey. He had a predilection to drugs and alcohol.
GRACE: No, he didn`t.
FICKER: They`re not holding him. They don`t have a gun at his head. There is no physicality like there is in hazing. He`s drinking it
voluntarily. You say they forced him. He drank it. They weren`t pouring it down his throat.
GRACE: Justin Freiman, Jim Franco with me. Let`s talk about, Jim Franco, how he managed to consume this much alcohol, until he`s dead. I don`t
think he was drinking it voluntarily.
FRANCO: Well, it was probably voluntarily, but I`m sure he was being egged on by other fraternity members and his fellow pledges and he pretty much
chugged 60 ounces of vodka, all in one shot.
GRACE: Justin, what do we know?
FREIMAN: They say he was forced to drink this, all part of this initiation into this underground fraternity. Part of handle night.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:56:40]
GRACE: Live, Palm Bay, a man in a wheelchair actually charged with DUI? In a wheelchair? Drunk driving?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Palm Bay Police say Ronnie Hicks was drunk and out of second chances. Police say they picked up Hicks twice recently for drunken
behavior in his wheelchair, and they say once he was nude.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight to Cheryl MacCollum, former director of Mothers Against Drunk Driving, Georgia. Now at Cold Case Investigative Research Institute.
Cheryl, drunk driving on a wheelchair? Don`t we have bigger problems?
MACCALLUM: We have bigger problems, Nancy, but he could have killed himself or somebody else, and it`s not that unusual to be in something
other than in a car.
GRACE: I`m seeing a lot of mug shots here. Ray Caputo, WDBO, why does he have so many mug shots?
CAPUTO: Mr. Hicks has been in trouble a lot. Obviously he got this DWI also earlier this year, he`s been arrested for I believe assaulting
somebody with a deadly weapon. Another DUI charge.
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa. I hear you, Ray. I believe you. But I want to get to the heart of this. Jason Hicks is the lawyer for the defendant
Ronnie Scott Hicks, no relation. Jason, I`ve prosecuted a lot of habitual violators, but never a DUI in a motorized wheelchair. What happened with
your client?
JASON HICKS, ATTORNEY: Very strange case, Nancy, apparently he was on a four-foot-wide wooden pedestrian bridge that cuts through what`s best
described as a swampy forest. I`ve seen this place myself. Essentially it`s a wooden trail which is raised up about a foot above ground level.
It`s not a roadway, in fact, it`s not even directly connected to roads. So no motor vehicles can even travel on this. From my understanding, the
footrest on his wheelchair kept falling off. He was trying to fix that. Apparently some pedestrians complained to police that he was blocking the
trail. An officer arrived, said he smelled alcohol, and the rest is history.
GRACE: Wait a minute. Is he actually possibly going to do five years in prison?
HICKS: He`s charged with a felony DUI based upon, he had a prior offense apparently in 1993, another one in 2014. Those actually involved cars, not
a wheelchair.
GRACE: You know what? Jason Hicks, I`m going to make this one time cameo appearance as a defense lawyer. Because I want to try and save those beds
in jail for killers and rapists and child molesters and real DUIs.
Guys, this guy`s in a wheelchair, on a bridge! A foot bridge! Please don`t send -- give this guy five years and waste a jail bed spot. Don`t do it.
DUI in a wheelchair.
Thank you, Jason Hicks.
Let`s remember American hero, Marine Lance Corporal, Kyle Brown, Newport News, Virginia, just 22. Purple Heart, third tour, buried Arlington.
Loved his Yamaha motorcycle, parents Rodney and Theresa. Sister Rachel, brother Dane. Kyle Brown, American hero. Thank to our guests and
especially you for being with us. Nancy Grace signing off, I`ll see you tonight, 8:00 sharp Eastern, and until then, goodbye, friend.
END
