Return to Transcripts main page
Nancy Grace
Husband Implicated in Sievers Murder. Aired 8-9:00p ET
Aired December 02, 2015 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news now, live to Bonita Springs, Florida. Mystery surrounding the murder of a gorgeous young doctor, Teresa
Sievers, found murdered in her upscale Florida home while husband and two little girls out of town. Not one, but two arrests go down, one Sievers`s
husband`s best friend from childhood.
Bombshell now. We obtain police file documents that state in black and white Dr. Teresa Sievers`s husband is involved in her murder. He has
not been arrested. But does this accusation have anything to do with a $4 million life insurance policy?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Newly released documents alleged her husband, Mark Sievers, helped to orchestrate the killing of his wife, Dr. Teresa
Sievers. Details of life insurance policies taken out on Teresa Sievers by her husband...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And totaling nearly $4.5 million.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And live, after a North Carolina, a dad of four special needs children paralyzed waist down while washing his hands at a rest stop, the
dad, Greg McKee, driving his family home after Thanksgiving, the perp that shoots him caught on video. At this hour, is there a crack in the case?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: (INAUDIBLE) 911.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My stepfather has been shot by a gun!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He felt uneasy, saw a gun on one of the men and tried to run out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I heard a loud bang. They walked out (INAUDIBLE) what the hell with that. They run off.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And live, a coarse-driving (ph) evangelical Christian author wiggles in a creepy latex head mask to arm-rob a local movie theater worker
at gunpoint. At this hour, he claims the Freemasons and Scottish Rites (ph) made him do it.
You know what I`m talking about, the Scottish Rites, the guys in the funny hats and the little cars that ride in parades? They`re awesome!
FYI, Scottish Rites 100 percent fund Scottish Rite hospitals, providing free care to desperately ill children in need. And somehow, this Christian
evangelical author has sucked them into his armed robbery plot? He`s getting a lump of coal for Christmas!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In a world of bizarre crimes, a man allegedly holds up a movie theater armed with a BB gun, and he`s wearing a latex mask
on his face. As if that`s not enough, even cops are scratching their heads in disbelief when the suspect reveals his motive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Hello. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight, live to Bonita Springs, Florida, the mystery surrounding the murder of a gorgeous young doctor, Teresa Sievers, Sievers
found murdered in her upscale Florida home while her husband and two little girls were out of town.
Not one, but two arrests go down. One of them, critical, is her husband`s best friend from childhood. At this hour, we obtain police file
documents that state in black and white Dr. Sievers`s husband is involved in her murder. He has not been arrested. But does all of this have
anything to do with the $4.5 million worth of life insurance on her?
As many of you have long suspected, we are now reading in black and white documents that we have obtained from the Florida attorney general`s
office that state they believe Dr. Sievers`s husband is involved.
Straight out to Bob Alexander joining us, anchor at Fox News. Bob, what`s happening?
BOB ALEXANDER, FOX NEWS (via telephone): Well, Nancy, Lee County Sheriff Mike Scott said months ago this was the most complicated case he`s
ever seen, and the documents borne out by the state attorney`s office, 1,500 pages of documents, and the lead document stating, by the state
attorney`s office, that Sievers is directly tied to the June 28th killing, along with Curtis Wayne Wright and Jimmy Ray Rodgers.
GRACE: Joining me in addition to Bob Alexander with Fox News is special guest Sheriff Mike Scott with the Lee County sheriff`s office.
Sheriff Scott, this is a huge development in the case. It is truly a bombshell. Is it correct, based on these documents that we`ve obtained
from the Florida attorney general`s office, that -- remember, Sheriff, how we kept going over and over and over with you repeatedly about the alarm
system in the home, that it had to either be turned off or somebody had to know how to turn it off or how to trick it?
[20:05:12]Is it true, based on these documents, that Mr. Sievers, Teresa Sievers`s husband, told his mother not to turn the alarm on?
MIKE SCOTT, LEE COUNTY SHERIFF (via telephone): Well, that`s the word according to his mother, and that`s certainly consistent with what we find
in the investigation, and I have to say, an investigation that continues to remain active and ongoing.
You`re right, it`s a very complicated case, and as Bob mentioned, one that even some time ago I said, I think on your show, as well, Nancy, that,
you know, Mr. Sievers, the husband, was within an envelope of suspicion. That`s -- I referred to an envelope of suspicion, a window of suspicion.
But the bottom line is these documents now, as released by (INAUDIBLE) attorney, more clearly, I think, show you and your viewers, and frankly,
everyone, what we`ve known as we`ve been going along. We`ve had this information for some time, it`s just now out in the public arena.
GRACE: Sheriff Mike Scott joining us from the Lee County sheriff`s office.
For those of you just joining us, now we see in black and white the documents we have obtained from the Florida attorney general`s office that
state they believe that Dr. Sievers`s husband is involved in her murder.
I mean, Sheriff Scott, at the get-go, when one of his long-time childhood friends -- I mean, they looked like each other. They refer to
each other as brothers.
Liz, if you could get me that photo of the side-by-side of Sievers and his long-time friend -- they look exactly alike. They look like brothers.
We know they visited just before her death, and as a matter of fact, the day of her funeral, he comes to the house to put in cameras, burglary
cameras.
You know, another thing that always stuck to me, Sheriff Scott, was that nothing was stolen. Remember, I kept going and going and going at
you, was anything stolen and was there a sex attack?
And there they are, Curtis Wayne Wright, Jr, and Mark Sievers. They look like the same person.
Long story short, it seems as if the scene was staged, Sheriff, to look like the room had been ransacked, but nothing was taken.
SCOTT: Well, there`s no question that these folks went to great lengths to cover their tracks, I think so much so that they didn`t
anticipate being caught and therefore didn`t have much of a plan in the event that things started to unravel.
As (INAUDIBLE) early on in this document (INAUDIBLE) when we first tracked (ph) him out to Missouri and Missouri (ph) and Illinois -- we were
also in the state of Arizona (INAUDIBLE) this thing has taken us in many different directions.
But basically, we`ve got everybody where we want them right now, for the most part. They`re not able to communicate with each other anymore.
Those lines have been -- those channels of communication have been cut off. And as a result, you know, the old saying about snakes biting (ph) each
other, I think, you know, will come to fruition.
GRACE: Take a look at Dr. Teresa Sievers in her own words. This is video and audio we have obtained from YouTube.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. TERESA SIEVERS, PHYSICIAN: (INAUDIBLE) people who can`t stop going to the bathroom. Clearly, there`s an issue here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: This is Dr. Teresa Sievers known as the great healer, beloved by all of her patients. We are obtaining documents as we go to air from
the Florida attorney general`s office stating her husband was in on the murder. He is as of yet to be arrested.
Matt Zarrell, is it true, 16 to 17 hammer blows to the back of her head?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Yes, Nancy, and it was with a hammer that was found next to her body that had blood and
hair still on it. There were 17 crescent-shaped and irregular lacerations to her head, (INAUDIBLE) fractures, open skull fractures, hinge (ph)
fractures, hemorrhages. She was brutalized!
GRACE: You`re taking a look at Dr. Teresa Sievers and her husband. This is her body being taken out of her suburban home, upscale home there
in Bonita Springs, a shock to the entire neighborhood and community. Dr. Sievers found dead.
Now, the circumstances surrounding her death were always, always unusual. She had taken a family trip to see her sisters and relatives up
north, and her husband and children, two little girls, stayed behind. She flies home on a Sunday night.
Now, is it your theory, or the attorney general -- the state`s attorney`s theory, Sheriff Scott, that she was killed almost immediately
when she got back?
SCOTT: That`s what the evidence indicates. Keep in mind that immediately upon learning of this -- we are the agency that responds. Of
course, the state attorney`s office was a little delayed (INAUDIBLE) until we sort things out and sort of put some initial preliminary evidence
together.
[20:10:03]But certainly, she had not been home long. She had basically just arrived, based on the timelines that we know -- you know, a
variety of different things, wi-fi (INAUDIBLE) and otherwise.
GRACE: $4.5 million worth of life insurance. Sheriff, I`m going to ask you the tough question. With all of these accusations laid out in
black and white in the state`s attorney`s documents, why has he not been arrested?
SCOTT: Well, we have additional information to look through. We have additional evidence to work through. And of course, Nancy, as a long-time
prosecutor, you understand that the only thing more critical to making an arrest is making the arrest appropriately (INAUDIBLE) and the defense
community.
We want to make sure that we have everything right. And by the way, I realize (INAUDIBLE) primarily about Mark Sievers, but let`s not eliminate
the (INAUDIBLE) fact that there could be others, as well.
I realize we`re talking about Wright, Rodgers and Sievers, with the first two being in custody. There are other people involved (INAUDIBLE)
documents, I think you can see that people have information. Perhaps they`re not forthcoming initially. Then there are other charges perhaps on
other people, as well.
So you know, our -- our critical mission is to make sure that we have it right. And that`s what we`re doing. We`re moving methodically and with
great measure (ph), as we should.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SIEVERS: I didn`t come from the perfect family when I was a kid, although I`d never had a life anything like these girls go through. I do
like them to know you don`t just wake up one day, become a doctor, have a business and have a perfect life. It requires work. And so hopefully, I
instill in them hope and a belief that they can be anything they want to be.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:16:25UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This affidavit from the state attorney`s office describing the gruesome murder of Bonita Springs doctor .
Teresa Sievers, who we now know was found by a friend, face down, bashed in the back of the head in her kitchen, a bloody hammer littering the floor,
the medical examiner`s office determining it was more than one blow. There were 17 lacerations of the scalp.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: In the last hours, we are obtaining documents from the Florida state`s attorney`s office stating that Dr. Teresa Sievers`s husband is part
of her murder. He has not been arrested.
With me is Sheriff Mike Scott, the Lee County sheriff, the elected sheriff, who is telling me T`s must be crossed, I`s dotted before any
movement takes place in this case.
We are now hearing and reading in formal documents that it was the husband, Sievers, 47-year-old Mark Sievers, that instruct`s his own mother
to turn off the alarm system. That is just before Dr. Teresa Sievers comes home and is slain almost immediately upon entering her home.
I`m sure that you, like me, have felt extremely unsettled about this case. The arrest of Jimmy Ray Rodgers and Curtis Wayne Wright, Jr., did
not seem to give us closure. Something was amiss, and now we know what it is.
We are waiting for another development in this case. Right now, we have got hundreds of pages of documents to go through, and this is what we
are learning -- A, that the husband asked the mother not to turn on the alarm system. 2, that burner phones were used to secretly communicate
between Sievers`s husband and his childhood friend, Curtis Wayne Wright, that they used code words on their regular phones to alert the other to use
the secret phone.
With me, Sheriff Mike Scott. Matt Zarrell, what can you tell me about the secret phones?
ZARRELL: Yes, so cops have evidence that shows that Sievers was using the secondary burner phone for communication with Wright for months before
the murders, since the beginning of May (INAUDIBLE) Cops say that texts such as, Hello, brother from another mother, was a signal to go and use
their secret phones. They`re discussing communicating another way than their normal personal phones.
Sievers says in one text message, We are unlikely to carry both with us and discussing (ph) texting other, and then we`ll get in touch when they
can.
GRACE: You know, joining me right now, telecommunications expert Ben Levitan. Explain, what is a burner phone?
BEN LEVITAN, TELECOMMUNICATIONS EXPERT: Nancy, there`s no difference between a -- what -- what -- a cheap phone that you can buy at the
supermarket for 10 or 20 bucks, and you get a certain amount of minutes on it. You don`t get a contract on that phone, but there is no difference.
The cell phone companies can track it.
The thing about these burner phones, Nancy -- these were bought in Missouri. So the story that Curtis Wright states that he forgot his phone
when he was leaving Missouri doesn`t stand up. If he has lost his phone, he would have bought a burner phone in Florida or somewhere. But if he was
in Missouri and he bought this phone, why didn`t he just go home and pick up his phone?
GRACE: Sheriff Mike Scott, Lee County sheriff, elected -- Sheriff Scott, again, thank you again for being with us. I mean, in this day and
age, everything is traceable. Deletable is not deletable, it`s recoverable.
[20:20:12]So it`s my understanding from these documents from the state attorney`s office that they had been communicating about the murder for
months. Is that correct, Sheriff?
SCOTT: Yes, ma`am. And our digital forensics unit at the sheriff`s office played a key role in this investigation, and continues to do so even
as we speak. So Mr. Levitan is correct, you know, with regard to the burner phone, as we call it. And you know, other things I`ve mentioned,
the digital footprint with the wi-fi action (ph), of course, GPS and things of that nature all very telling.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SIEVERS: Many years ago, I took the Hippocratic oath, and all of you remember the "Do no harm" part. But I thought it was really appropriate to
pull this part of the oath out, which I took, actually, almost 20 years ago. "I will apply for the benefit of the sick all measures that are
required for healing."
And this is really important because we need more tools. Conventional medicine is not enough. It`s not wrong, but it`s not enough. And we need
to start looking around and looking for other sources.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:25:13]UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Does a broken marriage point to Mark Sievers hiring his childhood best friend, Curtis Wright, and an
acquaintance to murder his wife? One of the women interviewed by detectives say it wasn`t about the couple`s marriage at all, but instead,
insurance money. The documents show there were five policies, varying in different amounts and totaling nearly $4.5 million.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: $4.5 million? That`s the tip of the iceberg, from what we are learning from documents we have obtained from the Florida state`s
attorney`s office stating in black and white that Dr. Teresa Sievers`s husband, Mark Sievers, is believed to be part of her murder with Wright and
Rodgers.
To Matt Zarrell. I`m trying to get to the bottom of Wright`s alibi and Rodgers`s alibi.
Hold on. Let me go to special guest Jerry Lubinski, close friend of Curtis Wayne Wright, Jr., a murder suspect in Sievers`s death.
Mr. Lubinski, thank you for being with us.
JERRY LUBINSKI, FRIEND OF CURTIS WAYNE WRIGHT (via telephone): Glad to be with you.
GRACE: Mr. Lubinski, I understand that you are convinced your friend, Curtis Wayne Wright, Jr., is innocent. Is that true?
LUBINSKI: I find it hard to believe that he would be guilty, yes.
GRACE: Why?
LUBINSKI: I believe he`s innocent, yes.
GRACE: I know that you believe he`s innocent. Why?
LUBINSKI: I met Wayne approximately eight, eight-and-a-half years ago. He was the assistant youth minister at our church, and that`s where I
met him. And throughout the years, we bonded. And he did work for me, and he has a key to my house. He has a key to my house in Florida. I see no
reason why (ph) the man has never cheated me or any people that are (ph) around him or anything in eight to nine years that I have known him.
GRACE: You know what? I respect that very much, Jerry Lubinski. I respect that you are sticking by him and you believe what you know of him.
And that is an admirable trait, sir, to stick by your friend unless proven otherwise.
The weekend that Dr. Sievers was murdered, he told people that he was going to be at your home working on your computer. Did you know that?
LUBINSKI: I was told by police, when the police came to my house here, that he used -- said he went to Florida for work, that he was going
to be doing work for me. When I talked to Wayne about this (INAUDIBLE) before the police arrested him, Wayne never used (ph) that he went there,
went to Florida to work for me. He (INAUDIBLE) worked for me...
GRACE: So did he go that weekend? Did he come to your place that weekend to work for you?
LUBINSKI: No. No. I did not see him that weekend. He told me he was going to Florida...
GRACE: Matt Zarrell, what can you tell me about Walmart photos and what piece of the puzzle do they have?
ZARRELL: Yes, this pretty much destroys both their alibis because both Rodgers and Wright claim they were home in Missouri when this happened
this weekend. The problem is, is that cops have surveillance footage from Fort Myers, near the Sievers home, that weekend that shows both of them
purchasing things such as trash bags, a backpack, shoes and towels.
GRACE: You know, they are actually pictured together. Sheriff Mike Scott is with me, the elected sheriff of Lee County. Sheriff Scott, I hear
what you`re saying about the T`s and the I`s and that they`ve all got to be crossed and they`ve all got to be dotted.
But I`ve read the documents from the Florida state attorney`s office, and they`re pretty damning, if they are to be believed, and I do not know
why they should not. You alluded to other people potentially being involved. I`ve read the documents. Without naming their names, what role
do you think any other person may have played in the murder?
LUBINSKI: Well, really, from the documents, we can all see that there are ancillary players that knew information at different points of time
along the investigation, including even recently, that may or may not have done the right thing.
I`m not saying they were necessarily at the scene. We know for a fact, for example, that Mark Sievers was not at the scene. He was a
thousand miles away. However, there are other ways that people could be implicated in the case. And so we believe -- and again, we`re working very
closely with the prosecutors here.
Our team and their team together believe that it would be reckless to rush (ph) and given what we know (INAUDIBLE) not in the public arena. It`s
not in the public realm yet -- information that we currently have, we believe that it would be premature to do anything further, or frankly,
discuss it in any greater detail.
Obviously, there are reasons for what we`re doing. I think it`s pretty clear with the totality of this case, that we -- it`s been very
measured and professional, very thorough. We certainly don`t want to stray from that track now just because we`re nearer the end since maybe the last
time we spoke.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have a lot of gratitude that I`m able to give some time back. It`s a place of healing for girls. It`s a chance of a new
life. And it really makes you realize what is important in life, that you have and what so many other people don`t have, and how important it is to
give back to them, to help them get the things they didn`t have in life from a traditional family.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:36:00]
GRACE: Greg McKee driving his family home after Thanksgiving. The perp that shoots him caught on video. Right now, is there a crack on the
case?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her husband Greg was washing his hands in the restroom at this i-85 rest stop when two men came inside and stood next to
him. One of the men is seen in this surveillance video at the rest stop.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I had to run over him to get out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Everyone, you see the perp on the video, and there is the father of four special needs children, and there is the perp. We have
tried to measure him against those vending machines. Candace Trunzo, senior editor dailymail.com is with us. Also with us, Terry McKee, the
wife of Greg McKee, shot at the rest stop. Candace, what`s the latest?
TRUNZO: The latest is they have a suspect under arrest. That`s 50 percent done, because they were two men who accosted Mr. McKee, shot him in
the back. So one of them is now under arrest, a 26-year-old named Darren Manuel (ph), another one on the loose.
GRACE: 26-year-old Daniel Darren Tyrone Manuel (ph) is this guy. This is the guy in the video, one of them who shot down Greg McKee, father
of four special needs children. His wife with us now. Terry McKee, thank you for being with us.
TERRY MCKEE, WIFE: Thank you for having me.
GRACE: Mrs. McKee, let me assure you that our thoughts and prayers have been with you since we first heard about the shooting. What happened
that night? You were waiting in the car, correct?
MCKEE: That`s not correct. We all went -- it was myself and my husband, our 18-year-old son and our five-year-old daughter. Our other two
children were not with us. We all got out of the car and ran into the restroom. I took my daughter to the women`s restroom, of course, and then
Jacob and Greg went into the men`s restroom. Laura and I came out first, Jacob came out after, and the three of us went outside of the building to
just stretch our legs and walk around, and Laura was skipping and playing - - and playing hopscotch, and her brother was playing with her, saying, "I`m going to get you, I`m going to get you."
Then all of a sudden we saw these two guys that were just loitering there, watching us. Then they looked back at us, and then just turned and
walked into the building. And just a few seconds later, we heard a bang, and all three of us just stopped and looked at the building, and these two
guys come running out, and we hear my husband screaming, help me, help me! And we run back in the building, and as we`re running in the building,
these two guys passed us. One of them said, what was that? Like they were shocked by it, but they were running away.
GRACE: What did the other guy look like?
MCKEE: He was shorter, had short dreadlocks, tattoos on his face. I did not get a really good look at him. I mean, it was dark, it was 7:30 at
night. But we actually ran in, and there`s my husband in a pool of blood face down in the entrance to the men`s restroom.
[20:40:00]
GRACE: Terry McKee, what were the first words your husband uttered to you when you saw him?
MCKEE: I`ve been shot. I`ve been shot, I`ve been shot, call 911.
GRACE: You know, it is a miracle that he did not die right there in the floor of that rest stop. It had to be a miracle.
MCKEE: One miracle is that he did not die. The second miracle is usually when he cuts himself and he sees his own blood, he passes out for
about two and a half minutes. This time the lord God was with him and he did not pass out at all, so he was able to give the police an extremely
accurate, fresh description of the perpetrators, so he didn`t pass out at all. But he immediately kept saying, I cannot feel my legs, I cannot feel
my legs.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 911.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My stepfather has been shot by a gun.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where at, sir?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m at a rest area.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On 85? Sir, are you on the northbound or southbound side of 85?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Southbound.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Southbound 85?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 160 rest stop.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:46:00]
GRACE: With me is the wife of Greg McKee, who was shot in that rest stop. Father in there washing his hands, his family waiting out in the
car. For no reason at this hour, one perp has been apprehended, but I want the other guy. Terry McKee, the wife and mother, with us. I want to go
straight to Dr. Lee Norman, chief medical officer, University Kansas hospital. Dr. Norman, right now we know he had been shot in the back and
they`re saying he was paralyzed from the waist down. Is there any way that can be reversed?
DR. LEE NORMAN, UNIVERSITY KANSAS HOSPITAL: Well, it really depends on two things, Nancy. One is what kind of injury occurred to the spinal
cord? If it`s completely transected, that is, cut completely across the spinal cord, much less likely to have a great deal of recovery. There are
still some chances, and there are new therapies being developed all the time.
The other thing that really matters when it comes to a spine injury is, where does it occur? Is it at the base of the skull, all the way down
to the tip of the tailbone? The higher up in the spine that the injury occurs, the more troublesome it is. The fact that he`s able to breathe on
his own and has his upper extremities working means it`s a little bit lower down.
GRACE: This is so upsetting. I know this is just like another case for you, but this is a family of four special needs children, who was just
washing his hands in a rest stop. Terry McKee, his wife, with us, Terry, where was the injury to his spine?
MCKEE: The injury is at the L1 vertebra.
GRACE: Was it totally transected?
MCKEE: The bullet entered and is lodged in the L1 vertebrae. It shattered the little bony fingers on the back side of the vertebrae.
GRACE: What does that mean, Dr. Norman? What is she saying? What does that mean? Talk to me in regular talk.
NORMAN: OK, regular terms, that means that the spinal cord goes down a bony canal. If the bones around it are injured and there is a shock to
the spinal cord, a lot of recovery can be had.
GRACE: You know, Joe Scott Morgan talking about ballistics, even if we can`t get the bullet, you heard what Terry said, the bullet cannot be
taken out of the spine. How are we going to do this?
MORGAN: I think it`s going to be really key to find this weapon, if they have recovered the weapon, Nancy, and place it into their hands. How
did they get their hands on this weapon? Also, if it`s a semiautomatic weapon, it will have spent a cartridge that can be tied back to the weapon.
So the bullet is not all that you need. You can have extractor marks on the side of the semiautomatic round that came out.
GRACE: You know, another thing, if you look at that video, Joseph Scott Morgan, everybody, Morgan certified death investigator, professor of
forensics at Jacksonville State University. Look at him. We`re amateurs, all right? But I had to do it for trial, compare his height to those
vending machines. It`s going to be easy to get an expert to give a height, a weight, a gate impression. That`s not just James Bond, all right, the
gate impressions? To see him walk. I even did that back when I was trying cases with the videos I had of a bank robber, to have him walk in front of
the jury, because my bank robber was slew-footed, and so was he.
MORGAN: Right. And it`s very, very powerful. If you could bring those items into court, videography. You can even bring a vending machine
into court. As ridiculous as that might sound, that`s a very powerful piece of evidence to present to the jury. It`s something they can readily
identify with. It`s something we all can identify with.
GRACE: Exactly, and we know the height of him, and he does have a very -- let me just say -- peculiar gait, an unidentifiable gait to his
walk.
[20:50:00]
Unleash the lawyers. David Lee Windecher, defense attorney, Atlanta, Alex Sanchez, defense attorney, New York. You know what, Windecher, you
heard what Terry said, and I recalled that he saw them come in in the light of the bathroom. He saw them, because they were behind him. He is looking
at them. So he got so uneasy that he started to leave and they put a gun to his head. You want to tell me, Windecher, he doesn`t remember their
faces? One of them has a tattoo on his face, Windecher.
WINDECHER: Nancy, even if you can put him on the scene with a video, we we still have an issue with identification. We don`t know--
GRACE: What is the issue? You don`t like the ID?
WINDECHER: If we knew that was the guy, wouldn`t they go to the hospital and say hey, is this the guy, can you tell us if this is him now?
We already apprehended someone, this has already happened. And they have not done that. Just because he`s there, does not mean he was the shooter.
GRACE: No, Sanchez, he has a point, true, but a photo array can still be done even though an arrest has been made. I`ve done it myself. You
take a photo line-up. Five, ten, 15 pictures. All the same size, that`s very important, all of the same quality. That`s very important. You don`t
want one 8 by 10 and the rest wallet sizes, you get my drift. You show that to the witness and ask if they can pick from a photo. Photo arrays
are done all the time.
SANCHEZ: Photo arrays are done for police investigative purposes. They may not be admissible at trial.
GRACE: I`ve got them into many trials, I don`t even know where you`re coming from.
SANCHEZ: They may not be admissible at the trial state. But again, Nancy, the weakness in this case is there was no type of videotape evidence
in the bathroom when this incident occurred. And there may be other people--
GRACE: Put him up.
SANCHEZ: There may have been other people in the area that we`re not aware of.
GRACE: Did you not see the video evidence in the rest stop? Roll it for Sanchez.
SANCHEZ: I saw a man walking into the bathroom, I don`t see him committing a crime, I don`t see a gun in his hand, and I don`t see a second
individual.
GRACE: When the victim says that`s him, I think that will work.
SANCHEZ: Where is the second individual?
GRACE: You also have the wife, who will be able to identify the guy with the tattoo on his face.
SANCHEZ: That`s an important feature. And also, what happened when he was arrested? Did he make any statements? Was he able to prove he was
somewhere else? Did he make any admissions of guilty? Was a gun recovered? We don`t have any information like that yet. We have a tape of
a man walking down a hallway.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:56:40]
GRACE: A father of four special needs children paralyzed from the waist down. Unleash the lawyers. David Lee Windecher and Alex Sanchez.
The best thing that this Darren Tyrone Manuel (ph) could do right now is get a deal and roll over and bring in the other perp, Sanchez.
SANCHEZ: I agree with you here. Especially if they have him on tape. And if there is other identification by either the victim or the victim`s
family. The case may be a lock. He may be interested in trying to work out a deal.
GRACE: And Windecher, come on, you heard what Terry said. The other guy is a short male, short dreads, with tattoos on his face. How hard is
that going to be? Not hard at all.
WINDECHER: Nancy, without sounding insensitive to the family, from a legal standpoint, he got shot in the back, he did not see anyone. The wife
said herself it was dark and she could not see anything. All you have --
GRACE: Put him up.
WINDECHER: -- is a video -- is that enough?
GRACE: I don`t see him. Windecher, I can ID him from that and I`m 2000 miles away.
WINDECHER: How, because he has long hair, a black male?
GRACE: And number two, he is in custody. That means he is going to crack and try to rat out his buddy to save his own skin. You know it, I
know it. Joe Scott Morgan, how can we prove this case?
MORGAN: One of the key pieces here is going to be ballistics evidence, if they recover the spent rounds at the scene that passed through
the body, they can tie it back to a weapon and put it into the offender`s hands, that will be key, the bullet is where the truth rests.
GRACE: Terry, did they recover the bullet?
MCKEE: No, the bullet is lodged in the vertebrae. If they remove it, the vertebrae will crumble. My husband got a good look at him. Because
they stood on either side of him at this thing, pointed the gun to his head, and he took two running steps to get out of the bathroom, and that`s
when they shot him in the back. He saw both of them in the light, in the lit up bathroom. Restroom.
GRACE: I remember that he saw them, and he got an uneasy feeling. Dr. Tiffany Sanders, psychologist, I`m sure you have some psychological
mumbo-jumbo, no offense, to explain what that feeling is when you know instinctively something is horribly wrong. He got that feeling when they
walked in and stood there. Then they pulled the gun. What is that feeling when you know, when you get a signal? I think it is divine, what do you
think?
SANDERS: I agree, it is some form of intuition that something was occurring that should not be there. My recommendation to the family is
definitely get some counseling. Because this type of trauma can result in PTSD, and the family will definitely need some help to manage this.
GRACE: Dr. Tiffany Sanders joining us. Terry McKee, please know, our prayers go on. Liz, please put up the gofundme, if you want to help Terry
and her family, here is your chance. Don`t sit back and regret that you didn`t help.
Let`s remember American hero, New York officer Diane DiGiacommo (ph), 52, former NYPD special investigator, American Society for Prevention of
Cruelty to Animals. Sister Donna, brother Paul, son Stephen. Diane DiGiacommo, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially you for being with us. Nancy Grace signing off, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until
then, good night, friend.
END
