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Nancy Grace
Young Waitress Found Dead in Parked Car/Girl Gang Attacks Mom With Baby Stroller. Aired 8-9:00p ET
Aired December 09, 2015 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, Fredericksburg. A 21-year-old beauty found dead in her silver Kia about 30 minutes from her
own home. When local home owners come to inquire, they realize the girl is not asleep, she`s dead!
Bombshell tonight. We learn in the days leading up to her shooting death, Heather Ciccone had complained about a female stalker.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She got shot.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s every parent`s nightmare.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: These burned-out flares mark the road where a resident from Heather inside her car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Severe trauma to the upper portion of her body.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Homicide by gunshot.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And live, Del City, Oklahoma, caught on video. I didn`t think they would stop, says a young female good Samaritan who stops on the side
of the road to help a mom and a baby in a stroller, the mom being beaten by a girl gang. And then after the vicious attack, they post it, bragging,
boasting on Facebook!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The video starts with a group approaching a young woman pushing a baby in a stroller. The person taking the video
warns her of what`s about to happen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) (INAUDIBLE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, live, Versailles, Kentucky, a 6-year-old little boy asleep in his own bed stabbed dead by a home invader in the middle of
the night. How did this happen?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He went into an upstairs bedroom, where 6-year- old Logan Tipton was sleeping. He told police he stabbed him multiple times with a large kitchen knife.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And live, Winter Haven, Florida. The Grinch is alive and well and headed to jail, if we have anything to do about it! In the last hours,
we obtain this video of a police officer`s wife stealing Christmas gifts out of another cop`s yard. And she`s caught on video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Cameras caught her helping herself to boxes left outside a neighbor`s front door. Inside them, Santa`s loot meant for a
Barton cop`s 2-year-old little girl.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And to Lidimere (ph). In the last hours, police release chilling photos images of women they uncover. The women all appear
unconscious or sleeping in the videos. Are they crime victims? Police hoping tonight that you, the public, can identify these possible victims.
Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight, live to Fredericksburg. A 21-year-old beauty is found dead in her silver Kia Rio about 30 minutes from her own home. When
local home owners spot the silver Kia, they come out to inquire. At first, they think she`s asleep at the wheel. Then they realize the girl is dead.
We learn that in the days leading up to her shooting death, Heather Ciccone had complained about a female stalker.
Now, imagine leading up to Christmas, you`re in your home, maybe decorating your Christmas tree, getting everything just right, and you see
a car parked outside in your driveway. And the car never leaves and nobody ever gets out.
So you all go out to the car and you see a lady in there. Tap, tap, tap. No answer. Knock, knock, knock. No answer. Then you realize she`s
not asleep at the wheel, she`s dead, this 21-year-old waitress found dead in her silver Kia Rio in a family`s driveway.
Let`s go straight to Ted Schubel, news director WBQB/WFVA. Ted, than, you for being with us live from Fredericksburg. Ted, this is a very, very
odd scenario. I just want to clear one thing up right now. She was shot in the back of the head, correct?
TED SCHUBEL, WFVA/WBQB (via telephone): That is what we`re told, yes, shot in the back of the head, Nancy.
GRACE: Well, Ted Schubel, this is no suicide. That`s an execution- style killing. Ted Schubel, you take it from the top. What do we know?
SCHUBEL: Well, we know that, like you said, she was found in her car in a driveway in rural Spotsylvania. This is the kind of place with trees
on both sides of the road, long driveways, about a half hour from her home. And like you mentioned, the stalking part of it and the Facebook end of it
is just chilling in some ways.
[20:05:10]GRACE: You know, you`re taking a look right now at this gorgeous young girl just 21 years old, trying to make extra money working
as a waitress. This is Heather Brianna (ph) Ciccone, just 21 years old.
Now, it`s her car. She wasn`t out with someone else. Her body wasn`t dumped on the side of the road. Her body is found dead from a gunshot
wound to the back of the head, sitting in her car.
I`ve got a couple of questions. Joining me right now, in addition to Ted Schubel, WFVA, special guest joining us, Captain Jeff Pearce, Captain
Pearce from Spotsylvania County sheriff`s office. Thank you so much for being with us, Captain.
CAPT. JEFF PEARCE, SPOTSYLVANIA COUNTY (via telephone): Well, thank you for having me on.
GRACE: Got a couple of questions. We`re putting up your tip line right now, everybody, 540-582-7715. I know she was parked in this family`s
driveway. Any connection between her and the family that lives in that home?
PEARCE: No. At this point, we`ve determined that there is no connection to the residents in that house and Ms. Ciccone or anyone that
she runs with.
GRACE: Well, Captain, I`ve got to say, from the outside looking in, that makes perfect sense because if there was any connection, why would
they have called police? You know, if they had anything to do with it, they wouldn`t be calling police about it. That must have been a big shock
for your family to go out to a car and find a dead body. I guess at first, they didn`t realize what had happened. Then they find out she`s dead.
Captain Pearce, was she in the passenger seat or the driver`s?
PEARCE: She was actually behind the wheel of the car, and the vehicle was parked, headlights on, and the engine was still running at the time
that they discovered her.
GRACE: You know, you just answered my next series of questions. I`m trying to figure out the condition of the car. In other words, was the car
still running? Was the heat still on, Captain? Do we know that?
PEARCE: Yes, it appears that she had just pulled into the driveway, and the vehicle was not very far into the driveway, off the road. And as
soon as, apparently, the vehicle stopped and she placed it into park, we`re theorizing at this point that`s when the actual assault occurred resulting
in her death.
GRACE: I`m wondering if the person, the assailant was in the back seat or the passenger seat. Question to you. Was the gunshot from the
outside in, from the inside-out? Was any glass shattered?
PEARCE: Well, that`s one of those questions that we`re keeping close to the vest right now. We conducted a thorough crime scene. We had our
forensic investigators out there. We have some physical evidence that we have recovered from the vehicle and from outside the vehicle.
However, from where she was shot, at this point, we believe that she was shot from inside the vehicle.
GRACE: Right. Right. Because you know, that angle directly in the back of the head or in any region in the back of the head, you`d almost
have to be in the car to pull that off. Shooting from outside at any angle, that would be a very, very difficult shot, if not impossible. We
had theorized the person, the assailant, was inside the car, Captain.
So I guess that means they had to get in and out of that car, which means unless they were wearing gloves, there are prints.
PEARCE: Well, there`s -- like I say, there was a great deal of physical evidence that we recovered from the scene. And a lot of that had
to be shipped off to the state crime lab, so it takes a few days for the results to come back. And hopefully, we`ll get a hit on some of the DNA
evidence or some of the fingerprints or some of the other items that were recovered at the scene.
GRACE: I was wondering about the passenger side car seat. Was it let back to a degree further than hers, to suggest a man was driving beside
her, riding beside her in the passenger seat?
PEARCE: Well, at this point, I couldn`t answer that question because I simply don`t know. But I do know that the forensic investigators have
looked at all angles of that.
GRACE: You know, I don`t have a whole lot of hope that this bullet will get a match on CODAS (ph) -- you know, the data bank for ballistics.
PEARCE: Right, the (INAUDIBLE) program and then CODAS.
GRACE: Right. Question. Were these her only injuries, Captain Jeff Pearce? Everyone, Captain Jeff Pearson, special guest joining us from
Spotsylvania County sheriff`s office.
For those of you just joining us, this young girl trying to make extra money as a waitress has been found. Her car, her silver Rio, is parked in
-- no connection -- a family`s driveway there at the edge, car still running, lights on, heat on, windows rolled up.
[20:10:15]They may think she`s sleeping, to start with. Then they realize she`s dead. Who would kill 21-year-old Heather Brianna Ciccone?
That`s what we`re trying to find out.
Were there any other injuries, Captain Pearce? Was there a sex assault?
PEARCE: No, there was no sexual assault. And as far as we can tell from the medical examiner`s report, there was no additional injury that was
fresh or caused during that encounter with the assailant. The gunshot wound was a single shot to the back of the head.
And you know, at this point, we are looking at several leads. We have, of course, issued and executed a search warrant on one residence in
another county. We`ve also spoken with numerous people, both friends, relatives and associates of the victim. And we feel at this point that we
are getting some good leads and that we will be bringing this case to a successful close.
GRACE: You know -- Captain Jeff Pearce with me, the captain there in Spotsylvania County sheriff`s office. It`s very difficult sometimes on the
outside looking in. This is a very slow and methodical and painstaking process to cover every avenue, every possibility.
And speaking of those possibilities, Ted Schubel, WFVA news director, isn`t it true that this young girl complained about a female stalker in the
days leading up to her murder?
SCHUBEL: She did. She posted on Facebook that she was being stalked. Her sister also said that there were voicemail threats.
GRACE: OK, Michael Christian, I didn`t realize there were voicemail threats, as well. And very unusual, Michael Christian, that her cell phone
is missing. Her cell phone is not in the car, from what we understand.
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): That`s right, Nancy. There was also a report that this stalker drove past her
house at least on one occasion.
GRACE: OK, Ted Schubel, Michael Christian, also with us, special guest Captain Jeff Pearce.
Ted Schubel, it`s a female stalker. And if there had been voicemail messages -- you know, most people her age, they don`t even know about a
land line. You know that had to be on her cell phone or else on social media, Facebook, Twitter.
SCHUBEL: Right. Yes, and the family apparently was aware of it. The sister knew about it. The sister had urged her to go to the police and get
a restraining order.
GRACE: You know, I want to find out one more thing, and I`m sure you`ve already done it, and I`m sure you`ve already done it, Captain Jeff
Pearce. According to her mother, she received a call from a friend, a female friend, asking for help that night with a broken-down car.
PEARCE: That`s correct.
GRACE: Did that request for help come in on the land line or the cell phone?
PEARCE: We believe it came in on her cell phone, from interviews with the parents. And we -- you know, obviously, we have ways of determining
what calls she received on her cell phone that night through subpoenas. And it is a tedious process going through all of this evidence, including
the threats that she received...
GRACE: Exactly.
PEARCE: ... on social media, as well as on the phone, are being looked at. They`ve been looked at by our detectives. And you know, we`re
continuing on with the investigation and taking it where the evidence leads us. But that person has been interviewed at length...
GRACE: Thank goodness. I can tell you`re following every avenue.
Unleash the lawyers, Kirby Clements, Atlanta, Carissa Kranz, Miami. All right, Carissa, what he`s talking about is a subpoena duces tecum for
documents. A subpoena doesn`t always mean that you`ve got to go to court and testify. By looking at the cell phone records, you can see just as
easily as what numbers she dialed, you can see who called her.
Who got her out of the home to help with a broken-down car that night? Who got her out of her home and she ends up dead?
CARISSA KRANZ, ATTORNEY: Right. And it might not even be a friend that asked her for help. It could be some other story that we don`t even
know about that could be the stalker that she may have gone to meet for some reason. We just don`t know enough.
And the subpoena duces tecum is essential, pretty much, to figure out exactly who called, outgoing, incoming, as well as text messages that may
have come through.
GRACE: Exactly. You know, Kirby Clements, the idea of, the theory of a female stalker killing her, you know statistically, that`s highly
unlikely, but not impossible.
[20:15:08]KIRBY CLEMENTS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, I would have to agree with you, Nancy. It`s highly unlikely. I actually prosecuted a
woman for rape when I was in New York. So it`s -- some of these crimes are very, you know, unconventional. So there`s still a lot to be discovered in
this case, but it seems that the police actually are doing a very thorough job.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Live, Del City, Oklahoma, caught on video. I didn`t think they would stop, says a young female good Samaritan who stops on the side
of the road to help a mom with baby in stroller being beaten viciously by a girl gang. And then after the vicious attack, they actually post it on
line, bragging and boasting about what they did on Facebook.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:20:00]UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Video of the attack appeared on Facebook, tagging those involved. Police say that helped in their
investigation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I want you to see this from the very beginning, all right? Liz, could you start it at the beginning with sound?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) (EXPLETIVE DELETED) (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, she`s about to take off (INAUDIBLE) (INAUDIBLE) She`s about to hit her (INAUDIBLE) I really (INAUDIBLE) she`s
about to hit her. (INAUDIBLE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Now, you can hear the horn blowing in the background. That is the female good Samaritan. That is the blond-haired woman -- that`s all I
could tell about her -- coming in to try to help this mother who was just coming along, pushing a baby in a stroller, when a girl gang of vicious
thugs attacked the mom with a baby.
You hear a man`s voice saying, I`m trying to protect your baby. There`s the good Samaritan trying to pull them off the victim. She gets
the beat-down, as well. Long story short, you hear the male saying, I`m just trying to protect your baby. I`m just trying to protect your baby.
But he doesn`t stop the beat-down on the mother.
To Scott Mitchell, KOKC talk show host, thank you for being with us. Who are these thugs?
SCOTT MITCHELL, KOKC (via telephone): Well, you`re going to be surprised. It`s juveniles, so they`re at the juvey center. But you know,
we got an epidemic of this, idiot parents raising idiot kids and right there for the videotape for the whole world to see.
GRACE: Let`s take it from the beginning. Stacey Newman, how did the whole thing start?
STACEY NEWMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, it started with what I`m going to call the mean girls` mom approaching this mother...
GRACE: Wait, wait, wait, little girl! Hold on just a moment. Mean girls? Stacey Newman, this is a felony, OK? "Mean Girls" was a movie
about Lindsay Lohan, and I can`t remember anybody else, maybe Alicia Silverstone. Anyway, that`s about, like, changing your photos in the
yearbook. This is about beating someone severely in the head and face, kicking them in the gut, possibly doing internal damage, with the baby
stroller right there.
So let`s rephrase the mean girls, OK?
NEWMAN: OK, I`ll change it from mean girls` mom to the girl gang, as you said.
GRACE: Thank you.
NEWMAN: So they approach this mother who has the baby in the stroller. What we`ve heard from police is one of these attackers actually
might know the victim. There were words exchanged, and the man behind the camera who`s recording this whole thing, he`s warning the mom, Push your
baby out of the way because you`re about to get beat up.
GRACE: He`s just as bad as the others, Stacey! He`s videoing the whole thing. He`s videoing and saying, I want to protect your baby. BS!
He is part of this. He`s a co-conspirator. He`s -- along with the rest, the whole kit-and-kaboodle need to stay in jail and stew for Christmas!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:27:27]GRACE: A thug gang, all girls, attack a young mother with her baby strolling down the side of the street in a baby stroller. Then
when a good Samaritan comes by, blowing the horn, trying to stop the attack, gets out to help, they beat her senseless, as well.
To Scott Mitchell, KOKC. What are the charges on these thugs?
MITCHELL: We haven`t seen precisely what the district attorney is going to do. Nancy, there`s a big trial right now of a police officer in a
big case in Oklahoma City, so I have got to talk with them. I do know that it`s going to be very serious. We have a no-nonsense DA, David Prater
(ph), that will be all over this.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Kirby Clements, Carissa Kranz. Carissa, there`s no doubt in my mind this should be a felony, felony aggravated
assault.
KRANZ: Well, yes, Nancy, I`m sure there`s no doubt in your mind that that`s what it should be. But these are juveniles...
GRACE: Put her up!
KRANZ: ... and we don`t know what their prior records are. We don`t know...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... in your mind -- in your -- now, where did you go to law school, Carissa?
KRANZ: Berkeley.
GRACE: OK. In your mind, do you think that the charge changes whether the person has a criminal history or not? Do you think that
affects the nature of the charge?
KRANZ: It doesn`t necessarily affect...
GRACE: OK.
KRANZ: ... the nature of the charge, but it can affect how it`s charged.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: OK. You know, I -- Kirby, that`s actually not at all what she said. She said we don`t know what the charges will be because we don`t
know if they`ve got a record and they`re juveniles. As you know, Kirby -- I know for a fact you helped when I was helping put cases to a grand jury.
You were presenting along with me before you became a defense attorney.
Now, the age of these victims -- the age of these perpetrators will have nothing to do with the charge. They can be charged with aggravated
assault in juvey jail, as well as they can if they were treated as an adult. What matters is the crux of the act, whether this was an aggravated
assault. What kind of damage did it leave?
CLEMENTS: That is partially true, but you have to factor in that there were just punches and kicks...
GRACE: That goes to...
CLEMENTS: ... no serious injuries.
GRACE: OK. Yes.
CLEMENTS: And therefore, it`s a misdemeanor. And if they are juveniles with no significant history of violence, a prosecutor should
exercise their discretion and downwardly depart and charge the obvious misdemeanor.
GRACE: OK, you know what? Scott Mitchell...
(CROSSTALK)
KRANZ: ... -too.
GRACE: You know what, Carissa, dear, could you please put her up? If I shoot you, and I blow off the tip of your little finger, that`s an
aggravated assault felony. If I shoot you and blow off your leg, it`s still an aggravated assault felony. The injuries do not necessarily change
the charge. But speaking of the injury, Scott Mitchell, KOKC, what were the injuries?
MITCHELL: Well, the women were beat up. The good samaritan was injured but she didn`t go to work on Monday. She says she`s probably going
to press charges. They weren`t life threatening, but just awful.
GRACE: I`d like to see how you`d feel, Scott Mitchell, if a gang of girls beat you on the side of the road until you`re half dead. Then all
three of you want a misdemeanor.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:35:00]
GRACE: Live Versailles, Kentucky, a six-year-old boy asleep in his own bed stabbed dead by a home invader in the middle of the night. How did
this happen?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police responded here just before 4:00 a.m. for reports of a burglary in progress. Six-year-old Logan Tipton was sleeping.
He told police he stabbed him multiple times with a large kitchen knife, but it`s not clear why.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I don`t understand how this happened. I know that it happened. Unlike so many of these cases, the family is not involved. The
whole family was home, okay? The mom was working an overnight shift. She works for Amazon. The dad was home asleep. There were four children in
the bedroom together. The front door was unlocked, we think. And this guy, and I don`t know why, breaks into this home as they`re all asleep and
starts stabbing the six-year-old child to death. I have two eight-year-old children, and the thought that while I am asleep, someone could come in the
home and stab your child is unthinkable. The 11-year-old little sister realizes something has happened. She screams, go get daddy! And throws her
body onto the attacker to try to save her little brother`s life. Chris Spargo joining us, reporter of dailymail.com. Chris, what happened? It`s
almost too much to have to take in.
SPARGO: It`s incredibly unbelievable. This man broke into the house around 4:00 a.m. on Monday, went upstairs to the bedroom where the children
were all asleep, began stabbing the six-year-old in the neck and head, stabbed him to death as his 11-year-old sister jumping on her back and
screaming to try to get help.
GRACE: With me is a special guest out of Versailles, Kentucky. Peter Barnhardt, family friend, coach of the youth football league, knows the
family very well. Peter, thank you for being with us.
PETER BARNHARDT, FAMILY FRIEND: Thank you. I appreciate you taking the time to speak with us.
GRACE: Peter, I am just sick. Tell me, how is the family doing?
BARNHARDT: They`re numb right now. There`s a lot of -- obviously a lot of grieving going on. The final funeral arrangements were just made.
I actually just left the family a few minutes ago.
GRACE: Oh, my stars. I just cannot even imagine.
BARNHARDT: It is unimaginable. You know, I`ve spent a lot of time with them the last few days, just hugging on them and praying with them,
and we`re blessed to have a very tight-knit community in Versailles, Kentucky. We`re a small town of about 9,000 people, and like any small
town across the country, we all have our differences, and it`s unfortunate that it takes a horrific, tragic event like this to bring us together, but
it has done just that. And there`s been just the outpouring of support for this family from across the community, and not just from our community but
around the surrounding communities of Lexington and Louisville, we`ve had phone calls from all over the States from Indiana to --
GRACE: Peter, I`ve got a question for you regarding Logan`s sister, because I view his sister, an 11-year-old little girl, she is a superhero
in my mind. Tell us what the sister did.
BARNHARDT: So Coral is not -- she`s a hero. I don`t know that superhero describes what she is. She is an unbelievable young lady that
did what her daddy would have wanted her to do, and that was to fight off this attacker, this brutal, evil individual that precipitated this crime.
She physically fought him off and protected her three other siblings. She allowed them to escape downstairs.
[20:40:00]
One of her sisters is the one that woke her daddy up and told him that somebody was upstairs, and the dad told me that he thought she was having a
nightmare, a bad dream, and he went upstairs and came into contact with the attacker and was able to subdue him until the police arrived.
People -- the question that continues to be asked is how was he able to restrain himself? How was able to not take actions further? And I`ll
tell you this. There`s two factors in it. The first factor, he was not aware at this point that his son Logan had been stabbed. He was unaware
that Logan was injured at this point. He also, at the point where he had the man restrained, he was ready to use all means necessary to subdue him.
And he felt a tap on his shoulder, that he felt it was God tapping him on the shoulder, and now he feels it was little Logan tapping him on the
shoulder telling him not to do it. Logan was a young man who just turned six November 21st, who had only love in his heart. Logan was a special,
special young man. He was a little boy that if you walked up to him and met him in the grocery store and just started a conversation, he would tell
you he loves you, and he would mean it. That`s who he was. That`s who he was in his heart, that`s how he was raised by his parents, and, you know,
we`ve cried about it, we`ve talked about it, and I believe the family believes in their hearts that if this man would give Logan 30 seconds to
talk to him that Logan would have told him he loved him.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:46:00]
GRACE: Live to Bartow, Florida. The grinch who stole Christmas is alive and well. And she`s headed to jail if we have anything to do with
it. In the last hours, we obtained video of a police officer`s wife stealing Christmas gifts out of another cop`s yard, and guess what? She`s
caught on video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Cameras caught her helping herself to boxes left outside a neighbor`s front door. Inside them? Santa`s loot meant for a
Bartow cop`s two-year-old little girl.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Matt Zarrell on the story. Matt, who is this -- first, let`s see the video unfold. Liz, could you start at the
beginning? Okay, here we go.
(MUSIC)
GRACE: That is "You`re a Mean One, Mr. Grinch," from Warner Brothers TV, "How the Grinch Stole Christmas." Matt Zarell, as we drink in the video
of this cop`s wife stealing Christmas gifts, what happened?
ZARRELL: So the victim, the mother, is at home with her two-year-old daughter and her husband when she sees a shadow pass by the front door of
her home about 11:00, this was Friday. She checks the surveillance system. The surveillance system is showing what you`re seeing, that this woman
parks this white Crossover in front of her home, she picks up a black trash bag which belongs to the victim`s family, it actually had trash in it, it
was out for trash collection. She takes the black plastic bag, she carries it to the front door, takes the two packages away, runs to her car and
drives away. The mother then posts the video on Facebook, has over 50,000 views, and a lot of people come and say, we know who this person is.
GRACE: You know, I don`t understand it. She is the wife of a police officer, allegedly steals Christmas gifts from a neighbor`s porch. There
she is. Okay, you can cry today, but you weren`t crying then. I want to go back to the video, okay? I don`t want to see the grinch cry. Mark
Harold, former cop, Atlanta PD, lawyer and author of "Observations of White Noise." It might be difficult right now to tell the other victims in the
neighborhood, because say you order on Amazon, or wherever you order, you`re not sure for sure whether your items are coming or not while you`re
at work. She can get them without you ever knowing they were there.
HAROLD: Absolutely, you have to canvass the neighborhood over several days. People are going to think it hasn`t even arrived yet, it`s already
been stolen. But definitely you`re going to have to look and see if it`s the only victim, but it`s definitely a shocking crime, and it`s definitely
a type of grinch thing, somebody going and taking somebody else`s Christmas presents. You can`t make it up.
GRACE: Terry Lyles, Dr. Lyles, psychologist, author of "Crack the Stress Code," joining us out of Miami. Dr. Lyles, what is it about
Christmas that makes people even more greedy? I would never dream of stealing somebody`s things off their front porch.
LYLES: Like you said, you can`t make this stuff up. I had something stolen off my porch a couple of years ago, and it was family heirloom stuff
that we didn`t even know was missing until a couple of days later and figured it out. I don`t get it. But I`ll tell you, it left a hole in my
gut that who could walk up to someone`s door and just take what they think they want from someone else? It`s a sheer violation and it just shows that
Christmas brings out the best out in most people, but it can bring out the worst in others who think they`re deserving.
GRACE: Dr. Lyles, listen to this. What exactly was stolen, Matt Zarell?
[20:50:00]
ZARRELL: For the two-year-old daughter it was a Minnie Mouse sleeping bag and board games worth a grand total of $30.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Kirby Clements, Carissa Kranz, did you hear that, Kirby? A Minnie Mouse sleeping bag?
CLEMENTS: You know what, Nancy --
GRACE: No, tell me what, Kirby.
CLEMENTS: I suggest to you this woman needs to be evaluated, because a lot of people who steal do so because of some mental illness. We have
people with pockets full of money and they go steal gravy.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: And a lot of defense attorneys who have their clients caught on video suddenly have a mentally ill client. They`re perfectly fine the
night before, but once that video emerges, uh oh, suddenly they have a mental illness. Carissa Kranz, weigh in. What`s your defense?
KRANZ: She probably does have a mental illness because she was on probation at the time for doing another petty theft. She probably needs
in-patient treatment now to really be rehabilitated, and I think this is a wake-up call just for the holidays. When I read this story, I got a
package delivered to my house and I wasn`t home, and I called the front desk and I said, please have maintenance bring it to my apartment. People
are desperate right now, and it`s something to be mindful of.
GRACE: A two-year-old`s Minnie Mouse sleeping bag and some board games. Matt Zarrell, didn`t she try to take them back, and she says it was
because she felt bad about it? But the cop says it`s because the video got 50,000 views, and she knew she was going to be busted.
ZARRELL: After taking them, she felt bad so she returned them. She waited, of course, two days later to return them. She returned them Monday
morning about 4:30 a.m., but she actually didn`t return them in the original boxes, because she was concerned they would have her fingerprints
on them. I guess she forgot about the cameras sitting right outside the house.
GRACE: Okay, everybody, what brings out the greed in people at Christmas and Hanukkah? This isn`t the first time. Look at this.
(MUSIC)
GRACE: That`s "You`re a Mean One, Mr. Grinch." Warner Brothers TV, "How the Grinch Stole Christmas."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:56:50]
GRACE: Live to Windemere, in the last hours, police released chilling images of women they uncover. The women all appear unconscious or sleeping
in these videos. Police hoping tonight, you, the public, can I.D. these possible victims.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you know these women? Police need your help. The photos show women who appear to be unconscious or sleeping.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Keep in mind, these women are potentially victims, unwitting or unknowing that they are victims.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Ray Caputo, WDBO, what can you tell me about these images of women? Who are they?
CAPUTO: Well, Nancy, they`re really quite disturbing. The pictures show various women, they appear to be unconscious. Their eyes are closed.
And the thing is, we don`t know who they are, or where they are.
GRACE: Dr. Robert Kauffman joining us out of Atlanta. Thanks so much for being with us. Dr. Kauffman, can you tell whether the women are asleep
or awake?
KAUFFAMN: Well, it looks pretty obvious that they`re not conscious. And the question is whether they`re not conscious from being drugged or
asleep.
GRACE: And another thing, for all I know, this could be a peeping tom taking pictures. How he could do this, I don`t know. But let me ask you
this, Dr. Kauffman. If these women had been victims of any type of attack, how would they know, if they were unconscious?
KAUFFMAN: Well, if they had abrasions, they had anything after the fact. Once they wake up, it`s the only way to tell. There`s lots of
history of stories of people getting drugged in bars and they wake up in strange places. And this could be exactly what happened here. They could
be drugged, sexually assaulted and would not know anything until they wake up, until they see their clothes removed, or evidence on their body.
GRACE: With me, Dr. Robert Kauffman, physician, Atlanta.
Let`s remember American hero, Marine Lance Corporal Samuel Tapia, 20, San Benito, Texas, Purple Heart, dreamed of being a state trooper. Parents
Federico and Nazaria (ph). Brother Jose. Sister Elizabeth. Wife Jacqueline, daughter Samantha. Samuel Tapia, American hero.
And our signature handcuff jewelry available. Special coupon code, nancygrace.com. All proceeds go to child abuse and neglect victims. Go to
nancygrace.com. And tonight, a special good night to our friend Paul Kubis, author of "The Gorger: The Man Who Could Not Get Enough." Paul, stay
strong.
Thanks to our guests, but especially to you for being with us. Nancy Grace signing off. See you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until
then, good night, friend.
END
