Return to Transcripts main page
Nancy Grace
Walmart Fight Caught on Video/CreepyPasta Clown Allegedly Inspires 12-year-old to Murder Stepmother; Baby Girl Found Dead in Oven; Drone with Weapons Crashes Into Prison. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired December 29, 2015 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: Breaking news now, live, Ohio, where a Walmart shopper violently attacked, beaten and hurled to the floor by her hair by
another shopper who claims she cuts the line. Bombshell now. It`s all caught on video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She grabs the back of my hair and throws me -- I mean, literally throws me like just a sack of potatoes. When I landed, I
hit my back and my elbow and busted my head.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And live, a 12-year-old little girl stabs her own stepmother dead and blames a clown, a clown named Laughing Jack the little girl sees on a
spooky Web site called Creepy Pasta.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Prosecutors say the girl set her family`s Prairie Street apartment on fire, then stabbed her stepmother. The stepmother,
Maria Torres, died.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is no other facility that can or will take her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And to Houston. Mommy and boyfriend leave the children all alone at home, the 19-month-old baby girl found burned dead at the oven. Mommy
claims her baby girl`s death is just an accident. Hey, Mommy, it`s no accident you leave your little girl.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Houston police showed up at the apartment. Little Jezaira Thompson (ph), just 19 months old...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... shared with her three siblings, mom and her mom`s boyfriend. The toddler was found burned in the oven.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And live -- normally, prison walls are designed to keep people from getting out. But what about people and things getting in? Live, Oklahoma,
a flying drone crashes behind prison walls. What a co-inky-dink! It`s full of hacksaws, drugs, cell phones and cigarettes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... when an inmate cornered a visiting woman, threatened her to accept money through Paypal and instructed her to make
one big purchase, a drone she`d never seen or used.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. Live to Ohio, where a Walmart shopper violently attacked, beaten, hurled to that hard cement and tile floor by her hair by
another shopper who claims the woman cuts in line. It`s all caught on video.
And take a look. We`ve all been in Walmart a million times. That floor is the hard tile. Ow! Oh! OK. Here we go. Here we -- uh-huh. Oh! Ow!
That is the hard tile on top of cement. You know what that will do if you hit your head on it?
OK, that`s not even a fair match. I want to go straight out to David Bloomquist, talk show host, WJAS. David, that tile in Walmart is on top of
cement. That could have caused a complete spinal injury. What happened? How did this whole thing go down?
DAVID BLOOMQUIST, WJAS (via telephone): Well, the whole thing went down, Nancy, (INAUDIBLE) Kenworthy in line. She got out of the line to fill out
another piece of paper. She jumped back in where she was before.
And that`s when Melissa Werts took exception to it and came running up, I mean, you can see in the video, just ramming her cart into Kenworthy.
Kenworthy then turns around and says, Excuse me, turns back around to the counter, starts doing what she was going to do, and that`s when Werts grabs
her by the hair and just slams her.
The customer service employee, April Kelly (ph) of Walmart, said that Kenworthy did not cut. And apparently, this isn`t the first time that
Werts has had an altercation at Walmart.
GRACE: Now, you know, we`re really focusing a lot on whether the victim in this case cut in line. Isn`t this customer service?
BLOOMQUIST: Yes, it is. And...
GRACE: I mean, it`s not even a checkout line, for Pete`s sakes! It`s not even worth fighting over. Hold on, David Bloomquist, don`t move.
With me right now, Chief Dennis Butts from the Greenville Police Department. Chief, thanks for being with us.
CHIEF DENNIS BUTTS, GREENVILLE POLICE DEPARTMENT (via telephone): No problem.
GRACE: You know, Chief, I know you`ve got your hands full -- you know, drugs, homicide, car thefts. But you know this case right here in a
Walmart? So what do you make of it, Chief Butts?
BUTTS: Well, the video was certainly shocking, and it just showed the intensity of the attack.
GRACE: You know, that Walmart floor, Chief Butts, is actually linoleum or tile on top of cement. You throw somebody down on that, on their head or
their neck, that is a serious spinal injury in the making, Chief Butts.
[20:05:00]BUTTS: And through our investigation, we have learned that the victim in this particular offense had a preexisting back injury. So we`re
just glad she wasn`t hurt any worse than what she was in the attack.
GRACE: Oh! Oh! Oh, that`s bad! So what can you tell me, Chief Butts? Has this woman, the perpetrator, Melissa Werts -- has she had other
altercations at Walmart?
BUTTS: According to the employees at Walmart, this same individual was involved in a like type of offense earlier that week.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Randy Kessler, Atlanta, robin Ficker, defense attorney out of Maryland.
All right, Robin Ficker, before you get all stirred up, let me just ask you this. Is it legal to ban somebody from coming in a store? Because I think
it is. I think Walmart has the ability to ban someone from ever coming in their store again. Would you say that`s legal or no?
ROBIN FICKER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I would say it`s certainly legal. And this case is a good argument for on-line shopping.
GRACE: OK. Well, thank you, Monday morning quarterback, but the damage is already done. Kessler, I`ll get back to you.
You know what? You all might laugh about this, but if it`s your mother that this happened to, I bet it wouldn`t be so funny. Let`s go back to the
video. Let`s take it from the -- can you rerack that and start at the beginning?
Here we go. All right. Let`s see what happens. So the -- the woman in the gray, Melissa Werts, looks as if -- OK.
So Chief Butts, explain to me how the whole thing started again. And talk about victim and perpetrator so I can keep it straight.
BUTTS: OK. According to the employees at Walmart, the victim had -- went to the customer service table on an issue, was asked to step aside to
complete some paperwork, and then was called back to the customer service area to complete her business. So her cutting in line -- that was an
erroneous thought on the part of the suspect.
GRACE: Now, tell me what`s become of the perp here. You`re saying the victim went to fill out paperwork, got back in line, was called forward
when the suspect thought she was cutting?
BUTTS: Right. Correct.
GRACE: Yes, I see her holding the paper. And then the perp is just ramming her with the -- with the shopping cart. Guys, how many times are
we in Walmart, in Target, in Sam`s Club, in Costco, and you -- you never know who is shopping in the same aisles with you. I know when I go with my
twins, I`m a nervous wreck the whole time because we don`t know who these people are that are surrounding us in all of these big stores.
Chief, what is Melissa Werts charged with?
BUTTS: She was charged with first degree misdemeanor assault.
GRACE: Whoa!
BUTTS: I mean...
GRACE: Misdemeanor?
BUTTS: Yes.
GRACE: Why is she -- why is that a misdemeanor?
BUTTS: Well, unfortunately, under Ohio law, it doesn`t rise to the level of felonious assault.
GRACE: Now, what if it had ended up hurting her spine? What about that? That would be an aggravated battery if you lose the use of one of your
limbs, even if it`s your pinky finger.
BUTTS: Definitely, the prosecutor`s office would have taken into account the severity of the injuries. And I think Ms. Werts was lucky that she
didn`t hurt her victim any more than she did.
GRACE: So what does this mean? She`s charged with a misdemeanor. Has she been adjudicated, or is it on hold?
BUTTS: She has been adjudicated.
GRACE: Now where is she?
BUTTS: Pardon?
GRACE: Where is she now?
BUTTS: She was -- she went to her original court arraignment. She went in and pled guilty, and she will be sentenced at a later date.
GRACE: And do you think jail time is on the table? This isn`t right.
BUTTS: Certainly, jail time is on the table. In the state of Ohio, for first degree misdemeanor, she faces a period of six months incarceration, a
$1,000 fine or a combination of the two.
GRACE: I mean, nobody deserves to minding your own business and have somebody attack you like that. And I sure don`t see anybody rushing
forward to help her. I mean, that`s not right, get thrown to the floor, that hard floor in Walmart, and then she walks scot-free.
BUTTS: Well, I don`t think she`s going to walk scot-free. It`s in the court`s hands now, as far as...
GRACE: Well, I know you`ve done your part, Chief Dennis Butts. OK, here`s my question. She`s had altercations there before. What did she do last
time, Chief?
BUTTS: According to Walmart personnel, she rammed her cart into somebody, similarly she did to Ms. Kenworthy.
GRACE: Whoa! OK, so this woman has a history.
David Bloomquist, WJAS, has Walmart made any move to ban this woman from coming in? Do they need her $10 that badly?
BLOOMQUIST: Not that I know of. And I`m with you, Nancy. I`m appalled she`s only getting a first degree misdemeanor. If I punch somebody in a
Walmart, I`m going to get a lot more. And in essence, that`s pretty much what she did, grabbing her hair, slamming her to the ground, throwing some
punches later.
You know -- people go -- prosecutors go for the charge they think they`re going to win. And in this one, I think they should have fought for
something more.
[20:10:03]Walmart is not saying a word. And here`s the crazy thing. I`m just looking at the video right now. There`s three Walmart employees right
there. Not one of them get in there to break up this fight. It was the victim`s friends who heard screaming, who came and actually broke this
thing up.
GRACE: Take a look at this. Not one Walmart employee lifts a finger to help. Now, I love Walmart, but right now, I`m not feeling like going back
to Walmart because none of them are helping her. And if they don`t put a ban on this woman -- she`s acted out before, they let her back in, and look
at this.
You know, Chief Butts, have you ever seen something like this caught on video in your jurisdiction before?
BUTTS: Assaults caught on video, yes. Yes, we`ve had assaults caught on video. This was a fairly blatant one. I will say that Ms. Werts was
trespassed from Walmart, so she is not allowed back onto Walmart property.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:15:17]GRACE: A 12-year-old little girl stabs her own stepmother dead, and now she blames a clown, a clown named Laughing Jack? The little girl
sees this clown, Laughing Jack, on a very spooky Web site called CreepyPasta.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A court order says the 12-year-old did it at the direction of a fictional character found on the CreepyPasta Web site known
as Laughing Jack. Prosecutors say the girl set her family`s Prairie Street apartment on fire, then stabbed her stepmother.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK, you were just seeing video of Laughing Jack. OK. That`s from CreepyPasta.com. I mean, that does not look appropriate for a child to
see. I`m a nervous wreck about my children even having an iPad in their hand if they`re going to see something like this.
Look at this! This is what this child is seeing? That on a kid`s Web site?
Mark Maley, managing editor, "Elkhart Truth" -- Mark, thanks a lot for being with us. This doesn`t look like anything that`s appropriate for a
child to see.
MARK MALEY, "THE ELKHART TRUTH" (via telephone): No, you`re absolutely right, Nancy. I mean, I spent some time looking on this site after the
story broke. And I have an 8-year-old son myself, and it definitely is nothing that I would want him anywhere near. And we don`t know how much of
the tragedy was a result of this, but it clearly was a factor.
GRACE: OK, let`s take it from the top, Mark Maley. Mark is joining us from Elkhart. He`s the managing editor it "The Elkhart Truth." Mark, I`m
very, very disturbed by this case.
For those of you just joining us, a 12-year-old little girl stabs her stepmother dead, and then tries to blame it on this Laughing Jack clown off
this Web site. It`s very creepy. In fact, I know you`re going to remember Slenderman, the little girls who were following the orders of Slenderman, a
fictional sci-fi character, also on CreepyPasta.
So Mark, take it from the beginning. What happened?
MALEY: Sure. I sure can. So back in July, firefighters and police were called out to that Prairie Street apartment that you mentioned, thinking it
was pretty much a routine fire, a routine apartment fire.
When they got there, however, the father of this young girl was outside the apartment, frantically waving police, telling them to come inside because
the mother, 50-year-old Maria Torres, had been stabbed.
It was a crime that had this entire community buzzing. Blood was all over the apartment, leading up the stairs. And indeed, the 12-year-old, you
know, we believe took a kitchen knife and stabbed her mother, and later, as you mentioned, told authorities that this, you know, murderous fictional
clown named Laughing Jack told her to do it.
GRACE: Now, had the child, Mark Maley, had any previous disturbances, mental problems?
MALEY: No, apparently not. I mean, you know, we -- our newspaper talked to neighbors, we talked to children that went to school with her, and to
everybody, she seemed like a normal -- like a normal kid.
GRACE: Did you say that there was blood...
MALEY: Pardon me?
GRACE: Did you say that there was blood going up the steps?
MALEY: Yes, there was blood all over the...
GRACE: Oh, so the mom struggled.
MALEY: ... blood on the doors, blood on the floors. It was just a horrific, horrific crime scene.
GRACE: So where was the dad when all this happened, Mark Maley?
MALEY: The mother, Maria and her husband, Edwin, were watching TV. They smelled smoke coming from the girl`s bedroom. They went in there. A
scuffle ensued. She had a knife on her. And that`s where it happened. But the mattress was already on fire at the time. And they ran out of the
house, and the mother, Maria, was left behind. And by the time authorities got to her, she was pronounced dead at the scene.
GRACE: OK. Hold on. Mark, I didn`t hear part of that. Tell me again. You said there was a scuffle?
MALEY: Yes. He -- you know, when they smelled smoke in the bedroom, the girl`s bedroom, they tried to figure out what was happening and they saw
the knife. The father put a chair in there to try to protect themselves, and there was a bit of a scuffle. The dad was injured, too. You know, he
was stabbed, as well, not with life-threatening injuries, but he was injured in the arm. And the mom was just pronounced dead at the scene.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:23:32]UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Prosecutors say the girl set her family`s Prairie Street apartment on fire, then stabbed her stepmother. The
stepmother, Maria Torres, died.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is no other facility that can or will take her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK. Before this incident, according to friends and family, she had no mental problems. This 12-year-old girl stabs her stepmother dead, and
then tries to blame it on Laughing Jack, the clown you`re seeing, right now off a creepy kids` Web site called CreepyPasta.com.
Justin Freiman, what can you tell me about Laughing Jack? What`s that all about?
JUSTIN FREIMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Laughing Jack is this horrifying clown, and he`s murderous. And his preferred method of
killing is slicing open the stomach of the victims. And victims are usually young children.
GRACE: OK, that`s not making me feel any better. Mark Maley, managing editor, "Elkhart Truth," remember just recently, we covered the case of two
little girls about the same age, 11 and 12-ish, and this guy right here, Slenderman, they claim, also on CreepyPasta.com -- there`s Slenderman
again. And they get so enmeshed in this Web site. There`s Slenderman with one of his little girl followers. They believed they had to kill someone
to gain entrance to Slenderman`s mansion in the woods.
So they get their little friend -- their quote, "best friend" from school. They claim they`re going out, and they stab her nearly dead and leave her
to bleed out. It`s the same Web site, right, Mark Maley?
[20:25:10]MALEY: It`s not the same Web site, but it`s a very similar case. I mean, it`s, you know, a very similar type thing where they`re being
influenced by these Web sites that kids that age really shouldn`t...
GRACE: It is. Hold on, Mark. Mark Maley, it is the same Web site. There`s no doubt in my mind.
MALEY: OK.
GRACE: Not the same character -- it`s not the same character. You`re right about that. Laughing Jack is the character this little girl is
blaming for the murder of her stepmother. The other little girls, also on CreepyPasta.com, blame a different sci-fi character, Slenderman. There he
is.
Of course, neither one of them are real. Terry Lyles, psychologist, author of "Crack the Stress Code," how do they get so enmeshed in this that they
believe it? They`re 12.
TERRY LYLES, PSYCHOLOGIST: You know, Nancy, there is such a fine line between fiction and reality, and this is the psychological Web transference
process. If our kids -- young people, students, are watching things like this on line, and it`s not being monitored, I mean, you start blurring the
line of fiction and reality.
So it may not be psychosis as much as it is just the inference of what happens. I`m mad at my stepmother so I`m just going to do what I watch on
video eight, ten hours a day. The problem is, we`ve got to monitor our children. And if you`re not watching what your children are watching on
line, believe me, on-line is watching our children.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Robin Ficker out of Maryland, Randy Kessler out of Atlanta. All right, Ficker, defense?
FICKER: Everyone agrees that this little girl needs mental help. They haven`t been able to find the proper facility. She`s a miniature Linda
Blair on the loose, and she needs a psychiatrist looking after her. There`s no question about that, Nancy.
GRACE: I hear you. But that`s not what Mark Maley, the manager/editor of "Elkhart Truth" said, who has spoken to friends -- friends at school,
classmates, teachers.
Kessler, they say she was functioning perfectly fine, and nobody knew she had a mental problem until she stabs her stepmother.
RANDY KESSLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, even now, she`s still asking for help, and they can`t find a facility for her. She still is in the same
place. She`s been crying for help.
GRACE: You`re totally ignoring what I just said.
KESSLER: No, well, that`s because you...
GRACE: Can you not hear or you don`t want to hear what Maley just told you?
KESSLER: And what Maley just told us is hearsay. You`re telling me what somebody told you that somebody told him.
GRACE: OK, look around you, Kessler.
KESSLER: Right. OK.
GRACE: Does it look like you`re in a court of law? Do you see a judge and a jury?
KESSLER: Isn`t this a legal show? We`re talking about...
GRACE: The rules of evidence -- here`s the objection! That is not...
KESSLER: I`m a lawyer.
GRACE: ... in the real world. That`s in court, Kessler.
KESSLER: I`m on your show because I`m a lawyer.
GRACE: You`re on a show!
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: But you`re not in court so don`t try to say...
KESSLER: I`m not a psychologist.
GRACE: ... Oh, you can`t talk about what Maley said because it`s hearsay. BS! You know what? Just stop.
KESSLER: All right. That`s fine.
GRACE: Maley, what did the classmates say?
MALEY: Yes. And again, we`ve talked to more than one classmate. I mean, she was described as outgoing, as a creative type. I mean, you know, we
talked to people who lived next door, people who went to the same -- you know, same class. I wouldn`t consider that hearsay. I mean, you know,
that`s what her classmates were telling us and people that knew the family told us.
GRACE: So did you hear that, Kessler? Did you hear that? Classmates, next-door neighbor...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: You don`t want me to hear that? What, should I erase it from my mind? Should I erase it from the record?
KESSLER: No, that`s your forensic investigation is what somebody said somebody told him.
GRACE: No, I`m telling...
(CROSSTALK)
KESSLER: You don`t win a case by saying, Somebody told me that they talked to somebody who told me this.
GRACE: Yes, actually -- put him up, please!
KESSLER: You have experts...
GRACE: Actually, yes, you do.
KESSLER: ... do investigations.
GRACE: Yes, you do.
KESSLER: Analyze this child.
GRACE: You think that I`m going to believe what some defense attorney hires a doctor...
KESSLER: No. You hired him.
GRACE: ... probably from another state that probably doesn`t even work, probably doesn`t even work as a doctor.
KESSLER: That`s fine.
GRACE: He`s got his MD...
KESSLER: He`s got a degree.
GRACE: ... to tell me something versus...
KESSLER: An MD.
GRACE: ... the neighbors, the friends at school, the teachers that deal with her every day? You think I`m going believe a paid expert?
KESSLER: You don`t think this child has problems? Look at what happened.
GRACE: Yes, I think she`s got problems.
KESSLER: You don`t think (INAUDIBLE) investigation -- so all the...
GRACE: She killed her stepmother.
KESSLER: And you don`t think a lot of people have appearance of being normal, completely normal, and then there`s something going on in their
mind that makes them snap? We got to figure out what was going on in her mind.
GRACE: Not that many, no. I don`t. I don`t think perfectly normal people...
KESSLER: You cover them all day long! Every day, you cover them!
GRACE: Kessler...
KESSLER: They`re on your show every day!
GRACE: ... are you telling me now -- are you telling me now that you believe in your mind that there is a snap defense?
KESSLER: I don`t know. There could be. I don`t know enough about it. I wanted...
GRACE: No, no! I didn`t say could be.
KESSLER: I don`t know.
GRACE: Is there, in your -- because you`re a lawyer.
KESSLER: I don`t make that decision.
GRACE: Is there such a thing as a snap -- that I snapped, so let me off?
KESSLER: I`m not going to make a snap analysis on this minute response.
GRACE: OK, Ficker...
KESSLER: I want to know the facts.
GRACE: Ficker, be straight. Tell the truth. There`s no such thing as a snap defense, where you`re perfectly fine and then you go, I snapped and I
killed my neighbor. And that`s my defense. I snapped. There is no such thing as a snap defense.
FICKER: At that moment, she did not know right from wrong.
GRACE: Oh, now you`re going to go with the old McNaughton test from Great Britain!
FICKER: That`s very evident. If you want the truth, listen to your friendly defense attorney.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Live, to Houston. Mommy and boyfriend leave the children all alone at home. The 19-month-old baby girl, I almost hate to even say it. The
19-month-old baby girl is found dead at the oven. Mommy claims her baby girl`s death is all just an accident, but Mommy, it`s no accident. You
leave your little girl.
Little J`zyra Thompson, just 19-months-old, the toddler was found burned in the oven. Neighbors say it`s not the first time they`ve seen the kids
without adult supervision. Straight out to Jeffrey Boney, associate editor Houston Forward Times.
I`m looking at this little baby, J`zyra, and she`s absolutely perfect. Her little mouth looks like a bow, she`s got the prettiest brown eyes, the most
delicate little eyebrows, the sweetest, curliest hair, and now -- oh thanks, Liz, I didn`t need to see Racqual Thompson and Cornell Malone.
I could have gone the rest of my night without seeing them. Can I go see the little girl again? The only thing -- look at her little arm, little
cute thing. J`zyra is dead, and I want to know why, Jeffrey Boney, why is J`zyra dead?
JEFFREY BONEY, HOUSTON FORWARD TIMES ASSOCIATE EDITOR: Well, Nancy, according to police reports, the mom, Racqual Thompson, was 25, and also
currently 8-and-a-half months pregnant with another child.
GRACE: Oh no, you`re kidding. She`s going to have another baby?
BONEY: She is pregnant again, eight-and-a-half-months, and she told --
GRACE: She can have it in jail.
BONEY: Yes, well she told investigators that she initially left her four kids all under the age of five, might I add, alone at their Houston
apartment on the evening of November the 16th for about 30 minutes, initially to go pick up her boyfriend, 21-year-old Cornell Malone, from
work.
Later that night, both Thompson and Malone left the children alone again after allegedly putting them to bed to go get some pizza, pick up a
prescription from Walgreen`s Pharmacy, and visit Malone`s brother. They were gone for about --
GRACE: What? Wait, wait, wait, get a pizza? Have they ever heard a delivery?
BONEY: They went to get a pizza, pick up a prescription, and go visit his brother, but they were gone for two --
GRACE: Why?
BONEY: They were gone for about two hours, and it was during this time that 19-month-old J`zyra Thompson was placed in an oven by one of her two
3-year-old siblings, and the other 3-year-old sibling turned the oven on, and when the mom returned home, she found the baby lifeless and tried to
resuscitate J`zyra, but it was too little too late, she was dead at the scene.
GRACE: Marc Klaas, president and founder of KlaasKid`s Foundation. Marc, you know, I don`t even know what to say. For once I`m absolutely
speechless, because it seems to me that children`s lives don`t mean anything.
I mean I don`t know if you can see your monitor, Marc, this little girl is absolutely a little -- she looks like a baby doll that you would buy, like
my little girl`s Bitty Baby that I got her at American Girl, she looks that perfect. And to think the mom just leaves, leaves? And the baby dies,
burned in the oven, Marc Klaas?
MARC KLAAS, KLAASKID`S FOUNDATION PRESIDENT: You know, Nancy, she didn`t do it unilaterally, she did it with her boyfriend. And what they don`t
seem to realize, is that as adults, we have a moral responsibility to watch over our children. And they just turned their back on that.
They decided to leave a bunch of little kids alone while they went out and partied, and the unfortunate result of throwing snake eyes of that roll of
the dice, is that this precious little child is dead. And both of them need to pay for that. They need to be held accountable for what happened
to that little girl.
GRACE: Joining me, Dr. William Morrone, forensic pathologist, and again, a renowned medical examiner. Dr. Morrone, what did -- I almost hate to
hear it, but I have to hear the truth, whether it`s hurtful or not. Tell me how this child actually died? Is there any chance the child blacked out
during this, or did she feel that pain?
There`s no way she died of smoke inhalation, like sometimes in a fire, I like to tell myself well, they probably died after a few moments from smoke
inhalation, and they didn`t feel the pain that they would have normally suffered by dying in a fire, but that`s not true in this case.
DR. WILLIAM MORRONE, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Well, the benefit that you have here is the intense heat of an oven needs the oxygen to burn, and when
this child, this baby was placed in the oven, it went into a low-oxygen environment, and it passed out in the first two or three minutes.
GRACE: How do you know that, Morrone? Are you just telling me that so I don`t lay awake all night long thinking about J`zyra? Is that why you`re
saying that, or is that real what you`re saying?
MORRONE: No, I`m saying that because I spent an entire year in the Firemen`s Academy, and I learned about the three things you need to burn,
substrate, oxygen --
GRACE: Oxygen.
MORRONE: -- and (inaudible). So in an oven, you have a very low oxygen environment, because the oxygen is being used to prepare and raise the
temperature. That child blacked out in two to three minutes, and never felt pain, but it still doesn`t excuse the process. It`s insanity.
GRACE: I don`t -- I hear what you`re saying, but I don`t know if I agree with that. Matt Zarrell, tell Morrone what else we know. Listen to this,
Dr. Morrone.
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Yes, so the two three-year-old`s talked to CPS and cops, and they say that the baby was kicking the oven
door while inside. The cops believe the toddler was kicking the oven to get out after it was turned up to max, but then the oven toppled over and
the baby was trapped.
GRACE: OK, what about that, Dr. Morrone? That doesn`t sound like she`s passed out. She`s kicking the door -- the baby is kicking the door, trying
to get out.
MORRONE: Well, the baby`s kicking the door to get out, and the oven falls over, you pass out in three minutes, you pass out in two to three minutes.
But a baby should be kicking to get out of an oven right away, that`s just not a normal thing. That doesn`t make me feel good, but it`s not a normal
thing to put a baby in an oven. Maybe on this show, but it doesn`t happen.
GRACE: Jeffrey Boney, Houston Forward Times, let me understand that my staff has got to be completely out of their minds, that they are telling me
that all they`re charged with is four counts of endangering a child, that`s two years per count? They could be out in, what, that`s eight years
they`ll be out in three? Really?
BONEY: Well not only have they been both charged and each facing four counts of endangering a child, they remain jailed and their bonds totaled
only $36,000.
GRACE: What? Whoah, wait, wait, wait, head spinning, head spinning, wait a minute, their max sentence right now could be eight years, and the baby
is dead? I want to know how the prosecutor would like it if he`s put in an oven, and they put it on max.
BONEY: Actually right now -- actually right now -- right now they`re facing both six months to two years in prison if they`re convicted, but
they could see their charges increasing to face more jail time, and right now --
GRACE: Did you say six months? So they could get six months on each of these charges, and they can run consecutively so they get out in six
months?
BONEY: Yes, six months to two years right now.
GRACE: Whoah, what -- who is the prosecutor -- what jurisdiction is this?
BONEY: Well this is -- this is of course Harris County assistant DA Stephen Driver, and their theory --
GRACE: Hold on, I`m writing this down, Harris County, Texas --
BONEY: District Attorney -- yes, this is Texas, this is DA Stephen Driver.
GRACE: Assistant Stephen Driver, as in driving a car, Driver?
BONEY: Yes, right.
GRACE: OK, so right now --
BONEY: Their theory in this case is that Malone was the boyfriend, and because they were all living together, he had some responsibility for those
children living in his care and in his household, and that`s the only reason he`s being charged.
GRACE: An adult leaves the home, what about the mommy? Forget the boyfriend, the mommy leaves her child alone, she burns to death in an oven,
and she`s going to get off in six months?
BONEY: Well let me tell you something even more disturbing, is that the grandmother lives in the same apartment complex, and was not notified that
the children were left all alone. So this could have been prevented all together.
GRACE: OK, Stephen Driver, Harris County, Texas. Harris County, Texas, are you just going to lay down and get run over? Really? You`re going to
accept this, that this child right here dies, burned up in an oven when mommy leaves her alone, and mommy can walk in six months? What was her
life even worth? Now mommy`s pregnant, eight months pregnant. Harris County, Texas, you got a lot of explaining to do.
JULIE KETTERMAN, RACQUAL THOMPSON`S ATTORNEY (via telephone): She never did anything intentionally to harm any of her children, she didn`t take any
proactive steps, she didn`t take any direct steps to injure any of her children. At most what she did was injury to a child by omission in her
failure to act. She`s certainly falling on the sword for the choices that she made, she has left the children alone in the past, she admitted that,
she was completely honest with CPS when they interviewed her --
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Normally prison walls are designed to keep people from getting out, but what about people and things getting in? Now we go live to Oklahoma
where a flying drone crashes behind prison walls, and what a coinkydink, a coincidence, the drone is full of hacksaws, drugs, cell phones, and
cigarettes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After teaching herself how to fly that drone, the woman says she got new instructions. Drive to a Tulsa Hooters, which is where
she says she met a man with a gun who forced her into a car, and told her to start driving.
GRACE: OK, Chris (Bargo), DailyMail.com, that sounds like a bunch of hooey right there. I was forced to fill a drone with drugs, guns, cigarettes,
and cell phones? I mean basically it sounds like she`s caught red-handed, and now she`s blaming a mysterious man she meets at Hooters. But let me
burn that bridge when I get there. Let`s start at the beginning, Chris Bargo (ph), DailyMail.com. What happened?
CHRIS BARGO (ph), DAILYMAIL.COM: So this woman got caught, she was flying a drone over the wall of this Oklahoma prison, which as you had mentioned,
had cigarettes, some drugs, hacksaws, glue. It crashed, it fell, prison guards caught it. When the suspects got caught, she said that she had been
kidnapped by this man who was a gang member who forced her to fly the drone over the wall.
GRACE: Well why didn`t he just fly it over the wall?
BARGO (ph): Exactly, we don`t know, and also this woman is someone who had been to the prison repeatedly, she clearly knew someone inside, and that`s
why she said she was targeted.
GRACE: Let me guess, she was quote, in love, with one of the inmates, and they talked her into this, right? So is there a paper trail, like did she
go buy the drone on her credit card? Is there video surveillance of her buying the drone? I mean where did the drone come from? Let`s start with
that.
BARGO (ph): She bought the drone, she did buy the drone, and she did practice (inaudible) --
GRACE: Oh wait, was the mysterious gang member making her buy the drone? Is there video of him in Target getting the drone?
BARGO (ph): There is just her, she was threatened to buy it.
GRACE: OK, so she goes in and buys a drone, and what all was in the drone?
BARGO (ph): So the drone had in it hacksaws -- two hacksaws, it had a few packs of cigarettes, it had heroine, it had methamphetamine, it had
marijuana, it had cell phones, it had glue, and it also had a security card which had one of the photos of the suspects on it.
GRACE: Steve Cohen is with me, drone expert and president of the NYC Drone User Group. OK, Steve, doesn`t look good for you right now.
STEVE COHEN, DRONE USER GROUP PRESIDENT: Well that remains to be seen, Nancy. I -- you know, I certainly can`t defend, you know, some nefarious
behavior, but I don`t think that means that the whole notion of drone use is to be excluded from our society.
GRACE: Steve Cohen, no offense, sir. Steve Cohen joining me from Hackensack, New Jersey, but why is it every time a drone is in the news
it`s something bad? It`s like a pit bull or a rottweiler, you know, what - - OK, hold on, focus.
COHEN: I could say that it has to do with the news media finding all the negative stories to portray drones in a bad light, and there are plenty of
good things that drones are capable of doing every day.
GRACE: Like what? Give me one good drone story.
COHEN: Like search and rescue, like disaster response --
GRACE: No, I want an actual story. When did a drone ever help anybody? Instead it`s always flying behind prison walls, it`s crashing into somebody
else`s property.
COHEN: There were earthquakes and landslides in different parts of the world where drones were able to locate and help rescuers, aid rescuers in
getting relief and supplies to people where no other vehicles were capable of getting to, in short order.
GRACE: OK, can you put Steve Cohen up with me, please? OK, Steve Cohen --
COHEN: That`s me.
GRACE: You got me over a barrel, OK, this time I`m over a barrel, all right, because you`re right, drones did help in that case. Mark
Heidenreiter, attorney for Marquis Gilkey, weigh in.
MARK HEIDENREITER, MARQUIS GILKEY`S ATTORNEY: Hi, Nancy. Thank you for having me. You`d be a good co-counsel, you`re asking the questions that
should be asked, they did catch a lady practically red-handed with the drone, and she`s trying to -- she tells quite a fantastical story that
somehow my client had kidnapped her, put her through training and such for over a week`s time, and forced her to do this.
GRACE: That`s BS, right, Mark? I mean I know you`ve got a dog in the fight because you`re representing Marquis --
HEIDENREITER: It`s (inaudible) and I`m very surprised that it even made probable cause to get an arrest warrant to tell you the truth.
GRACE: Now I know -- I was saying you`ve got a dog in the fight, Mark, because you`re representing Marquis Gilkey, but her story is ridiculous.
It doesn`t even make sense. So what`s happening with your client?
HEIDENREITER: Well my client is a working man, and he supports his family paycheck to paycheck, and he is sitting in jail because he cannot make
bail, and so he is going to sit, we have a preliminary hearing, I hope to get the case dismissed. That`s in two weeks, and then we will see if he
may have grounds to come after the state for false arrest.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When an inmate cornered a visiting woman, threatened her to accept money through PayPal, then instructed her to make one big
purchase she`d never seen or used.
GRACE: So Chris Bargo (ph), reporter, DailyMail.com, we`ve got the lawyer on for the guy that this woman claims forced her to do all this, with me,
is Mark Heidenreiter, out of Tulsa. I have to agree with him, even though he is a defense lawyer, her story is a lie, and the other guy, I don`t know
what his involvement is, but she`s the one who did this. How about the boyfriend she`s got behind bars? He had to mastermind this.
BARGO (PH): That seems like it is a very likely situation, since she had been to the prison so many times before, and that`s how they were able to
easily identify her.
GRACE: Guys, let`s remember, American hero Sergeant Dominic Coles, just 25, Jesup, Georgia, second tour, bronze star, Purple Heart, father William
Jr., sister Monique, brother Dennis, widow Toni, two daughters, Dominic Coles, American hero. Thanks to our guests, but especially to you for
being with us. Nancy Grace signing off, see you tomorrow night, 8 o`clock sharp Eastern. Until then, good night.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
