Return to Transcripts main page
Nancy Grace
Netflix Murder Case Juror Comes Forward; Sandra Bland`s Mysteriously Dies in Jail; Mom Found Dead in Family Home. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired January 07, 2016 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: Breaking news tonight. Julie Jensen`s body found in the Kenosha home she shared with husband, Mark, and her two young sons,
at first believed suicide by anti-freeze. Tonight, did husband Mark Jensen murder his wife to make room in the family home for his mistress? And if
not, then who, who searched the Internet for ways to make murder look like suicide?
Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, a Wisconsin judge grants Jensen bail, clearing the way for him to walk out of jail free.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Julie Jensen is dead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Poisoned with anti-freeze.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mark Jensen was having an affair with a co-worker.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Prosecutors argue poisoned his wife with anti-freeze so he could be with that mistress, and he spent weeks before her death
researching poisoning on the Internet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, missing photographer 25-year-old Teresa Halbach bone and teeth found on the property of Steven Avery so badly burned, the most
advanced DNA testing needed. After Netflix documentary to reel in viewers, convincing viewers Avery actually innocent in Teresa`s brutal murder,
tonight the controversy boils over. 300,000 viewers petitioning the White House, now target the Wisconsin governor, the cold-blooded killers using
Netflix to scam their way out of jail.
At this hour, an Avery juror breaks their silence. Amidst an alleged North Korean bomb and Chinese stock market crisis threatening the U.S., the White
House now is forced to address the Steven Avery case. And is the Avery prosecutor preparing for legal battle on Netflix?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Avery maintains he`s innocent, and defense lawyers say authorities planted evidence to frame him for murder.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It all comes back and all the memories and everything else in there to schedule (ph) me out again. And deep down, it hurts.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
STEVEN AVERY, CONVICTED OF MURDER: I want everybody to know I`m innocent.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And the mysterious death of 28-year-old Sandra Bland, found dead in a Texas jail cell after a controversial arrest. After we dig up booking
documents and Sandra Bland`s voicemail from behind jailhouse walls, supporters insisting Bland was murdered, claims of a coverup. In the last
hours, a secret grand jury indicts a police officer over Bland.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANDRA BLAND, VICTIM: I`m not (ph) complaining because you just pulled me out of my car!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We found out her bond was $5,000.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is complete (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was calling, calling, and no one was answering.
BLAND: Are you (EXPLETIVE DELETED) kidding me?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She just broke down. She was crying and crying.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Turn around!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And did a glamorous model and her FBI agent dad bludgeon her husband dead with a baseball bat, leaving his two children orphans?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A former FBI agent and his daughter are now facing charges in the death of the woman`s husband, a father of two.
The 911 caller, believed to be the victim`s father-in-law, reportedly told responders he had an argument with his son-in-law and struck him with the
baseball bat.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening, I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. Missing photographer 25-year-old Teresa Halbach, bone and teeth found on the property of Steven Avery so badly burned, the most
advanced DNA testing needed. After Netflix documentary to reel in viewers convincing viewers Avery actually is innocent in Teresa`s murder, tonight,
the controversy threatened to boil over, 300,000 viewers petitioning not only the White House, now targeting the Wisconsin governor as the cold-
blooded killers using Netflix to try and scam their way out of jail.
An Avery juror now breaks their silence. Amidst an alleged North Korean bomb and Chinese stock market crisis, the White House now forced to address
the Steven Avery case. And is the Avery prosecutor mulling a legal battle on Netflix?
I want to go straight out to Dan O`Donnell, anchor, WISN. What is the very latest? And let`s start with this juror speaking out, claiming the night
that they returned a guilty verdict, they slept like a baby!
DAN O`DONNELL, WISN: That`s right. This juror came out and told a local Web site OnMilwaukee.com (ph) first that they felt very good about the
verdict and that, in fact, the other juror, who talked to the "Making a Murderer" filmmakers and said that they feared for their lives because of
this wide-ranging conspiracy, was full of it, that there was no fear or anything like that. There was no horse trading or compromise, that this
was a verdict that they felt confident in.
[20:05:27]GRACE: And joining me right now, Ken Kratz, former Calumet County district attorney, who investigated Steve Avery. You know, Ken
Kratz, now that Netflix must be aware that there is another side of the story other than the one these two film students told in their documentary,
are you considering legal action against Netflix?
KEN KRATZ, FMR. CALUMET CO. DISTRICT ATTORNEY (via telephone): Well, good evening, Nancy. And thanks again for having me. You know, any response
that I am anticipating is going to be public. It`s going to be detailed. That`s way that I do things.
I have not ruled out a legal response to this. But I think, more importantly, there`s a side to this case, the side of Teresa Halbach, the
side that she has been the one and only victim of this case that needs to be told. You know, Steven Avery has gotten enough free publicity from
Netflix and from all the other organizations that he`s been given. I think we should probably start referring to this as the Teresa Halbach case, not
the Steven Avery case.
GRACE: Well, actually, I`ve been referring to it as the Teresa Halbach case from the get-go.
With me is Ken Kratz, the district attorney at the time, and also Sheriff Robert Hermann. You know, the web just gets tighter and tighter, Sheriff,
when I study this DNA evidence. But I want you to hear more of what Netflix is selling. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You made a mistake. They`ll understand that.
STEVEN AVERY, CONVICTED OF MURDER: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So are you telling me somebody planted the body?
AVERY: I didn`t do it!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who did it?
AVERY: I don`t know!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Steve.
AVERY: I don`t know!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Steve, think of your family (INAUDIBLE)
AVERY: I am thinking of my family!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, you`re not. You`re thinking of yourself.
AVERY: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re thinking of yourself.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And we don`t blame you for doing that. God damn it, you had 17 years in prison for something you didn`t freaking do.
AVERY: I didn`t do this one!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We understand that. But you made a mistake.
AVERY: No, I did not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You made a mistake.
AVERY: I did not. How can I make mistakes?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) so you intentionally killed her, is that what are you telling me?
AVERY: No, I didn`t. (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Then how did it happen? The body is on your property. The key is in your bedroom. You know the key is there because you put the
key there. That`s the only way the key gets there.
AVERY: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, Steve. Yes, that`s a fact. You can deny it all you want. The evidence will show that, OK. That`s the way it is.
AVERY: The evidence -- the cops got the evidence.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... investigators that have never (INAUDIBLE) two people who have never met you, have nothing against you and who know
nothing about you.
AVERY: No. See, if somebody else plants (EXPLETIVE DELETED) right there, you ain`t going to see (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Then why is your DNA there? Why is her blood in your house? How`d they get her blood in your house?
AVERY: How is her blood in my house? It can`t be. I used to...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) DNA (INAUDIBLE)
AVERY: I used to leave my house open all the time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How does your DNA get inside of her truck?
AVERY: (INAUDIBLE) blood they got out of me. (INAUDIBLE) I don`t have blood.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Steve...
AVERY: They got a lot of blood out of me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Steve, come back to reality here.
AVERY: I am!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, you`re not.
AVERY: I did 18 years. You think I want to do any more?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That`s "Making a Murderer" from Netflix.
You know, Matt Zarrell, now another juror has come forward. And what are we learning from that juror? After claims by Netflix and others that the
jurors were threatened, that they were afraid, that they felt they had to have a guilty verdict, what`s the latest revelation?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): OK, so the jurors said that the Netflix documentary was incredibly one-sided. The jurors
emphatically stated they do not find believe any jurors found Avery guilty because they feared for their own safety and that they did not compromise
by trading votes. The jurors said they saw the documentary, and it didn`t change their minds about the case. They implored people to look at the
entire Avery case file.
GRACE: To Sheriff Robert Hermann, Manitowoc County sheriff`s office -- again, Sheriff, thank you for being with us. What Steven Avery is claiming
would require not only Manitowoc and Calumet law enforcement to both be in on the big conspiracy.
Sheriff, now that the petition that has been triggered by the Netflix series has gained 100,000 signatures, now the White House is forced to
address it. They must address it. They`ve got to forget about the potential Korean bomb. They got to forget about the Chinese stock market
that has now affected the U.S. economy. And they`ve got to think about Steven Avery.
What do you make of that, Sheriff?
[20:10:10]SHERIFF ROBERT HERMANN, MANITOWOC COUNTY (via telephone): Well, I think it`s totally -- it`s just unbelievable that over a film that
doesn`t give all the information, doesn`t give all the pieces of evidence - - this case probably had more evidence than you`ll see in any murder case that I`ve ever seen or anybody else has, and they`re making these judgment
calls off of a film.
GRACE: And not only that, Ken Kratz now facing death threats. Sheriff Hermann, have there been any death threats toward members of the sheriff`s
department?
HERMANN: ... received two death threats, and we`ve also received the same party (ph) bomb that Mr. Kratz has received.
GRACE: So you personally have received two death threats or people within your department?
HERMANN: People within my agency have.
GRACE: Death threats! That is what this has resulted in! And Ken Kratz, I hear what you`re saying, but it`s still unclear to me. Are you not
ruling out a lawsuit against Netflix?
KRATZ: Well, of course I`m not ruling it out, Nancy. You know that I`m going to keep all of my options on the table.
And if I just might briefly go back to my other comment -- I wasn`t at all suggesting that you, who has been a champion of victims and victims` rights
for a long time, would refer to this regarding Mr. Avery. I was talking more generally about the attention and the free publicity that he`s been
getting.
GRACE: You know what, Matt Zarrell? Tonight, Teresa Halbach is dead in her grave. All that was found of her was a tooth, her incinerated bones
and basically a rivet, which was a pattern on her Daisy Fuentes jeans she was wearing that day.
She said she was afraid to go to this guy`s home. She was afraid of him. She went to take a photo of a vehicle that he said he was putting in "Auto
Trader."
But on the other hand, tonight Steven Avery is getting a flood of gifts, of letters, and is enjoying amenities behind bars. Amenities like what?
ZARRELL: Well, among other things, he`s got a list of things that he can purchase in the prison, including a flat-screen TV, a guitar, a keyboard, a
radio, tennis shoes, weight-lifting gloves. He is in a cell with another inmate. He`s got a bunk bed and a toilet. That is it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:15:57]GRACE: This Netflix documentary is garnering a lot of media attention, but it is breaking the hearts of Teresa Halbach`s family. They
were there in court every single day and saw this suit from beginning to end, when the jury returned a guilty verdict.
Teresa Halbach was kidnapped, chained, raped, her hair cut off her head, then murdered by two shots to the head. Her body was dismembered, and she
was placed in a burn pit behind an auto salvage business owned by Steve Avery, along with his brothers.
Tonight, he`s even grasping at straws, blaming his brothers for framing him, smearing blood inside Halbach`s car. It`s not working here. It might
work for Netflix, but not for us. As the petition mounts, the White House is now legally being forced to address it once it surpasses 100,000 names,
people hoodwinked by this Netflix documentary.
Take a listen at what co-defendant Dassey said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do you know what she said?
BRENDAN DASSEY, CONVICTED OF RAPE: I made it up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You made it up?
DASSEY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You made up the part that you raped her?
DASSEY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You made up the part that she told you not to do it?
DASSEY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To do the right thing?
DASSEY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And to tell your uncle not to do it?
DASSEY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You made that up?
DASSEY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Dassey, didn`t you tell your mother in a phone call on May 13th that you had gone over to your uncle Steven`s after school and
before she came home?
DASSEY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And on May 15th, she`s asking you why you didn`t tell her. Why didn`t you?
DASSEY: Because it didn`t happen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You lied to your mother, as well?
DASSEY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you lied to the police.
DASSEY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you -- you`re lying today?
DASSEY: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How is it that you were able to tell the police officers so much detail about what happened to Teresa if you weren`t there?
DASSEY: I don`t know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That is "Making a Murderer" from Netflix.
Unleash the lawyers, Troy Slaten, defense attorney, LA, Misty Marris, defense attorney, New York.
First to you, Misty Marris. You saw Dassey on the stand. What he told police originally fit the forensic evidence exactly. Exactly! So how is
it that a guy that knew nothing about it, according to him now on the stand -- how is it he knew all the forensic details and told them to police?
MISTY MARRIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, and that`s an issue of credibility for a jury to decide. And in this case, the jury made a determination.
They determined that Avery was guilty. However, if that jury pool was tainted, then he is entitled...
GRACE: That`s not what I asked you!
MARRIS: He was...
GRACE: Why are you talking about tainting of the jury...
MARRIS: Well, I`m talking...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: I asked you how did Dassey know all the facts shown by forensics if he wasn`t there, if this didn`t happen?
MARRIS: He went back and he recanted. He said he made it up...
GRACE: OK.
MARRIS: ... and that he was led by the police officers to stating those facts.
GRACE: Troy Slaten, I`m going to try you. How is it that Dassey, the nephew, who a jury decided was there and raped Teresa Halbach before she
was murdered -- how could he possibly know every single detail of the forensics about her being killed, about her being raped, about her body
being burned in the burn pit, about her dying words, Please, don`t do this, don`t rape me, tell your uncle to stop, don`t kill me -- how can he know
all the forensic details if he wasn`t there?
[20:20:05]TROY SLATEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: This was a 16-year-old boy at the time who had very low intelligence. I mean, it`s not impossible to think
that the police, you know, fed him everything and that the police were leading him and the police were getting him to confess to things that he
didn`t really do. That`s not impossible to think.
And is it strange to think that the police can get it wrong when they had to release the guy after 18 years, his uncle, after 18 years, when DNA
finally exonerated him? Yes, the police. the process sometimes make mistakes.
GRACE: OK, hold on. Both of you are excellent defense attorneys -- Troy Slaten, Misty Marris -- but neither of you have answered my question.
And I`m going to throw that question to Sheriff Robert Hermann, the Manitowoc County sheriff. Sheriff, how could somebody that was not on the
scene know intimate details of the forensics? I`m talking about blood in her car, Avery`s sweat under her car hood, her DNA on a bullet found in the
garage, her body burned in the burn pit, the rape, the cutting of the hair, her begging for mercy? How can he know all that if he wasn`t there?
HERMANN: I think you`re absolutely correct, Nancy. He was there. He knew intimate details. He put that puzzle together. He just put all the pieces
in place with his statements because he knew the facts. He was there, and he took part in it.
GRACE: Ken Kratz, former Calumet County district attorney`s office -- you know, I didn`t hear anything on Netflix -- maybe I missed it -- about
bleach on their pants from the cleanup. How did that fit into the puzzle, Ken?
KRATZ: It`s funny you mention that, Nancy because Netflix intentionally withheld all of the evidence that was inconsistent with the planting
defense. Brendan Dassey for the first time told law enforcement that there were bleach on his pants, that they splashed up on his pants because he and
uncle Steven cleaned the garage where Teresa had been killed.
Those pants were seized. They were processed. They were put into evidence. The hook latch -- the cops didn`t know that Steven Avery was
under the hood. Brendan Dassey told them that for the first time, and Steven Avery`s DNA shows up on the hood latch.
These are all statements not only by an individual that knew the details, but they had to be by somebody who was present. Last week (ph), Nancy, he
told those same details to his cousins. You heard the testimony about he having lost 30 pounds and crying and being remorseful about what happened,
provided those details. And you saw even the cousin during the Dassey trial in a very painful cross-examination, her recanting and said, Well, I
guess we both made up exactly the same story.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s no victim in this case. My sister is a victim, and I want people to know that. All the evidence is leading to him. I
don`t want people to forget my sister and I don`t want her to get lost in all this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: ABC News.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:26:55]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) everybody`s listening. What do you want to say today?
AVERY: I`m innocent!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "Making a Murderer" -- it`s the latest binge-watching obsession on Netflix.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Avery and his nephew were arrested. Both were convicted, this time for the murder of a young woman, Teresa Halbach.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Avery`s blood is found inside of Teresa Halbach`s vehicle.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That`s "Making a Murderer" from Netflix.
Tonight, due to the number of names on the petition to the White House, the president must address the Steven Avery case, once it goes over 100,000
names. This amid death threats on not only the then prosecutor but the sheriff of Manitowoc County, people convinced Avery`s wrongfully convicted.
Finally, a juror speaks out saying there were no threats in that jury room. The jury was convinced Avery was guilty. The real killer of Teresa Halbach
is behind bars, and it is Steve Avery.
Take a listen to co-defendant, nephew Dassey.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, I`m just going to come out and ask you, who shot her in the head?
DASSEY: He did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why didn`t you tell us that?
DASSEY: Because I didn`t think of it.
Well, I think his story is different.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What do you mean?
DASSEY: Like, different stories, like, different. Like, I never did nothing (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you? Huh?
DASSEY: Not really.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What do you mean "not really"?
DASSEY: They got to my head.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That`s from "Making a Murderer" by Netflix, Dassey falling apart on the witness stand. He chose to take the stand and was destroyed on cross-
examination. Avery chose to remain silent. Under our Constitution, that is allowed under the 5th Amendment and the Jury cannot take that into
consideration as they reach a verdict. Avery afraid to take the stand and undergo cross-examination. Why, if he`s telling the truth, did he not take
the stand?
To Matt Zarrell. What can you tell me about his criminal history, Avery`s criminal history?
ZARRELL: OK, so he`s been in trouble with the law since he was about 18 years old. 1982, he and a friend broke into a bar, trashed the place.
They stole beer, a toolbox, $14 in quarters and two cheese sandwiches. You`ve got an incident later that year where he lit his cat on fire, threw
it in a bonfire, watched it burn until it died.
In early `85, a woman who was Avery`s cousin said that early one morning, Avery rammed his car into hers when she pulled over. He pointed a gun at
her head. After being presented with threatening letters that Avery had sent his wife regarding the children visiting him in jail, the judge
terminated Avery`s contact with the children...
GRACE: You mean he threatened to kill his wife?
ZARRELL: Correct. Yes. And the judge said that he has huge anger, he has real potential to harm people, and he`s not dealt with an of that. Then he
gets out of prison.
[20:30:00] In September of `04, Avery`s arrested for disorderly conduct. After a fight with his girlfriend he`s ordered to stay away from her. Then
he`s arrested in November of `05 for being a felon in possession of a firearm. They found in his house when they were doing the Halbach
investigation.
Also, Nancy, during the Hollback investigation, we discovered evidence of a 2004 sexual assault case against Avery. He was not prosecuted but a
relative accused him of assaulting her. Because he was sentenced to life in prison, the prosecution told, decided not to go through with it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I love making people laugh. I love laughing. I love my sisters. The whole family, of course. I don`t hate anyone. I love
lots of people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That`s "Making a Murderer" from Netflix.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:35:03] GRACE: The mysterious death 28-year-old Sandra Bland. Sandra found dead in a Texas jail cell after a controversial arrest. After we dig
up jail booking document and Sandra`s voicemail from behind jailhouse walls, supporters insisting Bland was murdered. Claims of a cover-up?
In the last hours a secret grand jury indicts a police officer over Bland.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The haunting voicemail.
SANDRA BLAND, VICTIM: I`m still just at a loss for words honestly about this whole process. How switching lanes with no signal solve this.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: And the dashcam video of Bland`s arrest.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of the car.
BLAND: For a failure to signal? You`re doing all of this for a failure --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get over there.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: As the final moments of her life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Let`s go straight to the dashcam video that ignited this entire story. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLAND: Don`t touch me. I`m not under arrest. You don`t have the right to detain me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are under arrest.
BLAND: I`m under arrest for what? For what?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 1098, send another unit. Get out of the car. Get out of the car now.
BLAND: Why am I being apprehended? You try to give me a ticket for a failure --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I said get out of the car.
BLAND: Why am I being apprehended? You opened my car door.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m giving a lawful order. I`m going to drag you out of here.
BLAND: So you`re going to drag me out of my own car?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of the car. I will light you up. Get out.
BLAND: Wow.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now.
BLAND: Wow.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of the car.
BLAND: Arrested for a failure to signal? You`re doing all this for a failure --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get over there.
BLAND: Right, yes. Yes. Let`s take this to court. Let`s do this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go ahead.
BLAND: For a failure signal. Yes, for a failure to signal.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get off the phone.
BLAND: Oh my (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get off the phone.
BLAND: I`m not on the phone. I have a right to hold my property.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Put your phone down. Put your phone down.
BLAND: Sir?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Put your phone down, right now. Put your phone down.
BLAND: I`m not complaining because you just pulled me out of my car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Turn around.
BLAND: Are you (EXPLETIVE DELETED) kidding me? This is some bull (EXPLETIVE DELETED). You know it is.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Behind your back.
BLAND: You pull me straight out of my car. South Carolina, that`s a scare. That`s all it is, are you scared of a female?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you would have just --
BLAND: I was trying to sign the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) ticket. Whatever.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop moving.
BLAND: Are you (EXPLETIVE DELETED) seriously?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop moving.
BLAND: I can`t wait until we go to court. Oh, I can`t wait. I cannot wait until we go to court. I can`t wait. Oh, I can`t wait. You want me
to sit down now?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
BLAND: Or are you going to throw me to the floor? Is that going to make you feel better about yourself?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Knock it off.
BLAND: That will make you feel better about yourself? That make you feel real good, won`t it? (EXPLETIVE DELETED). For a failure to signal, you
doing all of this. (EXPLETIVE DELETED) whatever you said, my god.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are getting a warning. Until now, you are going to jail.
BLAND: For what?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can come read.
BLAND: For what?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come read --
BLAND: I`m getting a warning for what?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stay right here.
BLAND: For what? Well, you just pointed me over there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I said stay right here.
BLAND: (EXPLETIVE DELETED) Let me, oh I swear on my life you all. (EXPLETIVE DELETED). For a signal, you are taking me to jail.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Sandra Bland then found dead in her jail cell after this. Apparently having hung herself. That`s not all. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLAND: You are taking me to jail?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I got in control. She`s in handcuffs.
BLAND: What (EXPLETIVE DELETED). What a (EXPLETIVE DELETED). You about to break my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) wrists.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop moving.
BLAND: I`m standing still. You keep moving me. (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stay right there.
BLAND: Don`t touch me. (EXPLETIVE DELETED) Because of a traffic signal. (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come here right over here. This right here says a warning. You started creating the problem.
BLAND: You asked me what was wrong. I`m trying to tell you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have anything in your purse that`s illegal?
BLAND: Do I feel like I got anything on me? (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m going to remove your glasses. Come on over here.
BLAND: You`re about to break my wrists. Can you stop? Stop. You are breaking my wrist. Stop.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop moving. Stop, now. Stop it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stop resisting, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you would stop, then I will tell you. Now stop.
BLAND: You are such a (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, you are.
BLAND: For a traffic signal. For a traffic signal? This makes you feel real good, don`t it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you pull away from me, you`re resisting arrest.
(CROSSTALK)
BLAND: This makes you feel good. This makes you feel real good, don`t you? The female --
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know. I got her. I got her.
BLAND: For a trafficking -- I know that makes you feel good, officer. I know that makes you feel real good. You`re a real man, now. Just slamming
-- knock my head to the ground. I got epilepsy, you mother (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good. Good.
BLAND: I hope --
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You should of thought about that before you start resisting.
BLAND: All right. All right. Yes. This is real good. Real good for a female. Yes. You`re all strong bulls. No, real strong.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want you wait right here. Wait right here.
BLAND: I can`t go anywhere, (EXPLETIVE DELETED) on my back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Open your door.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: In front of me right now is Sandra`s mother, Geneva Reed-Veal, and the family lawyer Cannon Lambert, and special prosecutor on the Encinia
case, Lewis White.
[20:40:11] First to Mrs. Reed-Veal. Ma`am, it hurts me to play that back to where you heard it. Where you first heard that your girl died behind
bars, could you even believe it?
GENEVA REED-VEAL, MOTHER OF SANDRA BLAND: I could not believe it. I was speechless. All you could do is scream. Of course I did not see this case
until Sandy was gone. But to then see this, it infuriated me and to listen to it all over again now, I am even more furious. It`s welling back up
again.
GRACE: Jeffrey Boney, associate editor at Houston Forward Times. An officer has been indicted. For what exactly?
JEFFREY BONEY, ASSOCIATE EDITOR, HOUSTON FORWARD TIMES: Well, a Texas State Trooper Brian Encinia who of course arrested Sandra Bland for
failing to -- allegedly failing to use a signal or a turn signal in traffic changing lanes was indicted to perjury. And what they indicate is that
Trooper Encinia lied about his big incident altogether as to why he actually pulled Miss Bland out of the car.
GRACE: Cannon Lambert joining us, lawyer for Bland`s family.
Cannon, again, to you and Miss Geneva Reed-Veal, I hated playing that, but it is the truth. It is what happened. What do you make of the cop being
indicted for perjury?
CANNON LAMBERT, SANDRA BLAND`S FAMILY LAWYER: You know, we`re very frustrated by the fact that it took as long as it did, number one. The
reality is that it should not have taken six months to do what easily could have been done in six days or six hours.
The reality of it is that when you look at that video, you see that Encinia lied on so many different levels in so many different ways. And it was
abundantly clear because when he was reporting to his superiors on -- after that incident happened on that very same dash cam that you showed, you see
him lying, at 22 and 55 seconds, he`s lying about why it is that he had her out of the car. I think it`s at 23 and 55 seconds. He lies about her
using that.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Well, let`s take a look at it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLAND: Really? Really? I just drove down to the mother (EXPLETIVE DELETED). You`re all so full of (EXPLETIVE DELETED). I swear to God. You
all are full of (EXPLETIVE DELETED). For a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) traffic signal.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For a warning. For a warning. You`re going to jail.
BLAND: Whatever.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For resisting arrest.
BLAND: Whatever.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stand up.
BLAND: If I could, I can`t --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Roll over.
BLAND: I can`t even (EXPLETIVE DELETED) feel my arm.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tuck your knee in. Tuck your knee in.
BLAND: (EXPLETIVE DELETED). I can`t --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:46:50] BLAND: I`m not OK because you just pulled me out of my car.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She found out her bond was $5,000.
BLAND: This is some bull (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Put your hands behind your back.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was calling and calling, and no one was answering.
BLAND: Are you (EXPLETIVE DELETED) kidding me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She just broke down. She was crying and crying.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Turn around.
BLAND: Hey, this is me. I`m -- I just was able to see the judge. I don`t really know, they got me set at a $5,000 bond. I`m still just at a loss
for words honestly about this whole process. How the switching lanes with no signal turn to all of this. I don`t even know. But I`m still here. I
guess call me back when you can.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Those were the last words that we know of from Sandra Bland. She was arrested for improper lane change. But in the last hours, a police
officer has been indicted in connection with the Bland case. She was found dead in her jail cell after an arrest on improper lane change.
With me right now in addition to her mother and the family lawyer, Lewis White is with us, special prosecutor on the Encinia case.
Lewis, thank you for being with us.
LEWIS WHITE, SPECIAL PROSECUTOR: Thank you, Nancy.
GRACE: Mr. White, could you tell me exactly what the charge is the grand jury returned?
WHITE: Trooper Encinia was indicted for perjury, in which is a class A misdemeanor.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: And perjury regarding what, though? What is it he allegedly lied about?
WHITE: From his -- why he pulled her out of the car. The statements that he made in his report and also in his PC affidavit does not match up to the
video.
GRACE: So let me ask you this, Lewis White, special prosecutor on the case, the breaking news now is that a secret grand jury indicts a police
officer in relation to Sandra Bland`s death behind bars.
Mr. White, why do you believe that he pulled her over and out of the car?
WHITE: I believe he pulled her over -- in my opinion, he pulled her over for running the stop sign, but what ensued after that, that`s where the
statements become false.
GRACE: So the statement about why he pulled her out? Because he didn`t say running a stop sign. He said improper lane change is what I heard.
WHITE: Yes. Yes, I know. But if you watch the video, and I`m sure you have.
GRACE: Yes.
WHITE: You can tell that she rode the stop sign. And --
GRACE: OK. I hear you.
WHITE: Yes.
GRACE: To Dr. Tim Gallagher, forensic pathologist. Dr. Gallagher, it was later ruled she died by suicide. But how can that be determined with that
mode of death?
TIM GALLAGHER, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Well, it was determined to be suicide because she had a ligature mark around her neck much in the way most people
have after they commit suicide by ligature.
[20:50:06] I don`t see any other explanation as to why she has that injury. And it is enough to cause death. You only need about 12 pounds of pressure
on the front portion of the neck to stop the blood flow to the brain and go into unconsciousness and then later on die from that.
GRACE: To Geneva Reed-Veal, this is Sandra`s mother, do you believe Sandra committed suicide after that? I mean, I just heard her voicemail. She
didn`t sound suicidal.
REED-VEAL: No, Nancy, she didn`t sound suicidal, and I`m sorry, I have no idea what occurred in jail. I can only say to you that without any
evidence, without any proof, without even having the initial -- the initial police report, we still have no idea what happened to Sandra. So I`m being
asked to believe something that I haven`t been provided evidence for.
LAMBERT: I have to also say, you know, I find it very gratuitous that the suggestion would be made that the reason she was stopped was because of a
stop sign. I got to tell you, you know, I`m sure hoping that that`s in a report somewhere when we ultimately finally get the reports that we
understand are out there, the Texas ranger report.
GRACE: Well, I got a problem, too, because if he got her for running a stop sign, Cannon, why didn`t he just say, hey, you ran that stop sign back
there, lady.
LAMBERT: That`s --
GRACE: And why would she be yanked out for running a stop sign even if it was a stop sign?
LAMBERT: That`s --
GRACE: I mean, something is very, very wrong. I want you, guys, and Miss Reed-Veal, I hate to play this, but it`s the truth.
Liz, roll the rest of what we`ve got.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLAND: All right. All right. That`s real good. Real good for a human. Yes. You all strong. You all strong. You all really strong. (EXPLETIVE
DELETED).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You need to leave. You need to leave.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can`t hear you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You need to leave.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Am I on public property?
BLAND: Really? Really? I just drove down to the this mother (EXPLETIVE DELETED). You`re all so full of (EXPLETIVE DELETED). I swear to God. I
can`t even (EXPLETIVE DELETED) feel my arm. You just slammed my head to the ground. Do you not even care about that? I can`t even hear. He
slammed my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) head into the ground. My head. For a traffic ticket. For a traffic signal, slammed me to the ground and
everything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That video, Sandra Bland`s arrest from YouTube.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:56:56] GRACE: Bombshell tonight, Julie Jensen`s body found in the Pleasant Prairie home she shares with husband Mark and their two young
sons. At first believed suicide by antifreeze.
Tonight, did husband Mark Jensen murder his wife to make room in the family home for his mistress? Well, if not, then who searched the Internet for
ways to make a murder look like a suicide?
In the last hours, a Wisconsin judge actually grant Jensen bail, clearing the way for him to walk out of jail free.
Straight out to Jean Casarez, CNN correspondent. Jean, let`s start at the beginning. How was Julie`s body found?
JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: In the bedroom, in her bed. She was basically on her side, but her head was turned in toward the pillow, as if
of a suffocation. And the medical examiner found marks on her body as if her face had been pushed into that pillow.
GRACE: Well, you know, that`s amazing to me, Jean, that if there were marks on her body, why would they have found it to be suicide? Why did
they first think it was suicide by antifreeze?
CASAREZ: Husband, a stockbroker, the all-American family. She had been going through some tough times, fast decision, suicide.
GRACE: You know, Jean, you`re saying that she was found in her bedroom. Do we know what time of the day or night that she actually died as opposed
to when she was found?
CASAREZ: It was a while. It was a while later. However, there was no move at all to be made to call 911.
GRACE: Straight out to Matt Doran, host of "Crime Watch Daily." Matt, thank you for being with us. Matt, it`s interesting that her body is found
in her bedroom, but nobody ever called 911. And what is the defense claim here? Are they claiming that she killed herself, and tried to frame her
husband, in one fell swoop?
MATT DORAN, HOST, CRIME WATCH DAILY: That`s precisely what they`re claiming, Nancy, is that -- and to rely on that they`re using a series of
physicians reports that she had been depressed, that she had been seeking out treatment for depression, and that precisely, that`s what she did, that
she tried to frame her husband, and in doing that, they relied heavily on this note, that`s it`s the -- it`s right at the center of this case, in a
legal sense and in terms of the way they prosecute it, which was if anything happens to me, he being the husband, Mark, is the person you need
to look at. So they claim that yes, he was trying to frame her.
GRACE: Let`s remember, American hero, Lieutenant Luz Soto-Segarra, 49, killed in the line of duty. Served PR Police 23 years. Loved motorcycle
trips with her husband. Leaves behind grieving widower, also serving as an officer. Two sons.
Luz Soto-Segarra, American hero.
Thanks to our guests, but especially you for being with us. Nancy Grace, signing off. I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until
then, good night, friend.
END
