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Nancy Grace
Missing Tennessee 2-Year-Old`s Body Found; School Teacher Pleads Guilty to Molesting Boy Student. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired January 21, 2016 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have found Noah Chamberlin. He was located about one half mile from his -- where he went missing from. The family has been
notified and...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, the search for 2-year-old Noah Chamberlin has come to an end. As we go to air tonight, we announce that
his tiny body has been found, ironically, in an open clearing just one-and- a-half miles from where he went missing, his body found near ditches and briars, but not in the ditch, not in the briars, not in a sinkhole, not in
a cave, but in an open area.
Straight out to Keith Sherley, news director, 101.5, joining us there at Pinson, Tennessee. Keith, when was the discovery made?
KEITH SHERLEY, 101.5 (via telephone): Nancy, the discovery was made seven days, almost to the hour, from the time that his -- that he was reported
missing. It was approximately 1:30 that a group of searchers from, I believe, Cardomon (ph) County discovered his body.
GRACE: There you see searchers who have been going 24/7, around the clock, through the mud, through the water, through dense wooded areas, through the
foothills, looking for this child. You can see from this video how dense the foliage is, how dense that forest is, diving straight into it, the
lawmen breaking down in tears at the discovery of little Noah`s body.
For those of you just joining us, we are taking your calls live, 1-877-626- 2901. Little Noah`s body has just been found and identified. The family has been notified that Noah has been found.
Michael Quander joining me from CNN affiliate WREG. Michael, who exactly found baby Noah?
MICHAEL QUANDER, WREG CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Well, it was the law enforcement search crews that were out there and have been out there for
days upon days, searching several acres of land out there. They were able to -- they found his body, and again, (INAUDIBLE) the reality that he had
passed away.
GRACE: What I don`t understand -- I know they did all they could do. If this was in a clearing, I don`t understand -- Keith Sherley, you`re there,
you`re there in Pinson. If his body is in a clearing, I don`t understand how an aerial search did not find it. Were trees looming over the
clearing?
SHERLEY: It`s a very wooded area. It`s a very forested area, and this was part of the expanded search. This wasn`t part of the initial search area.
They took the initial search area and continued to expand. It was almost two miles from the house and a mile-and-a-half from where he was known to
have gone missing.
GRACE: Matt Zarrell joining us. Matt, what does that mean, it was an expanded search? Because I recall the sheriff telling us that they had
gone right to the edge of one-and-a-half miles in the first search, or one mile in the first search. Was this body found just beyond that?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Yes, it was. Police said this was an area that they expanded their search into. It was an area
that was on the outskirts of what they had searched, and they were planning to go back and search it a second time.
GRACE: Right now, we do not know the cause of death. For those of you just joining us, the search for Noah, baby Noah Chamberlin, comes to an end
tonight. Noah`s body has just been found, searchers, relatives, volunteers, lawmen, veteran law enforcement, breaking down in tears. We
had hoped to bring Noah home tonight as a storm is set to hit Pinson, Tennessee. Little did we know that this would be the outcome in the search
for Noah.
Matt Zarrell, I understand he was found about a mile-and-a-half from where he went missing. Is that from the grandmother`s home, where she last saw
him, what?
ZARRELL: It`s a mile-and-a-half from where he went missing, and the sheriff has told us it`s about a mile-and-a-half to two miles from the
home.
[20:05:00]GRACE: With me, certified death investigator, professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University, Joseph Scott Morgan joining us.
Joe Scott, we don`t have a cause of death. What will they be doing to determine that? It`s my understanding it is the law when a child has gone
missing in Tennessee, there must be an autopsy.
I`m curious to find out how long had the child been dead, why the child is dead, what happened. I know he went missing in a pair of jeans and a long-
sleeved gray jacket -- gray shirt. So what do they do first, Joe Scott?
JOSEPH SCOTT MORGAN, CERTIFIED DEATH INVESTIGATOR: Well, one of the things they`re going to do, Nancy, is to do a thorough external examination on
Noah`s body. They`re going to be looking for any signs of trauma, and then they`ll begin to evaluate the body based on any signs of what may have
occurred relative to exposure.
Let`s keep in mind he`s been out there, his remains have been out there for seven days. In my estimation, it would have been very tough sledding,
given the fact that he was wearing only a T-shirt and a pair of bluejeans when he was last seen.
GRACE: I still don`t understand -- Michael Quander joining us from CNN affiliate WREG. I don`t understand -- and we are not saying the
grandmother did anything wrong at all. But I don`t understand. How did he get away and get a mile-and-a-half away if the alarm was sounded so
quickly? What happened?
QUANDER: Well, law enforcement believes that -- well, you know, first let me say this. The family`s pastor tells us that Noah was a kid, a 2-year-
old, who loved running, loved playing, a ball of energy. So they`re under the impression that he could have just run away.
GRACE: Let`s take a look at those dense woods, Liz, because with a 2-year- old on the run, how quickly could he get out of eyesight? Look at the density of this wooded copse that we`re showing you right there.
Keith Sherley with me, news director, 101.5. Keith, how did the grandmother describe how he got away? What was she doing at the time Noah
somehow ran away?
SHERLEY: They were on their way -- and they were out on a walk. It was something very common for them to do. This was grandmother`s house. Noah
was running ahead of her. He would run in and up ahead on the trail and around the trail, and she was -- (INAUDIBLE) sight of him, and then there
came a time he ran in and she just didn`t see him anymore.
GRACE: Everyone, you are seeing the density of the foliage. Law people have been working around the clock, 24/7, through the muck, through the
mud, through the water, up and down trails, in caves, and washouts, in ditches, in sinkholes, trying to find little Noah.
So Michael Quander, WREG, where were Mommy and Daddy at the time he goes missing?
QUANDER: Right. No, the father -- we found out (INAUDIBLE) he`s a trucker, so he has -- he has roots where he travels locally. We were told
that he was actually in Canton (ph), Mississippi, which is in north Mississippi. And we`re told that he was delivering a route. And as for
Mom, we were told that she actually left Noah at home with Grandmom, which is not uncommon, when she went to the store for a second.
GRACE: We are live and taking your calls. Out to Florida. Hello. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nancy, in your first book about the justice system, didn`t you advocate for putting chips in children, babies and young
children, so they could be found if they wandered off like this little boy did?
GRACE: Well, actually, that`s a good point. I did. But it was referring to possibly in their lunch boxes, on their tennis shoes...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
GRACE: ... on the laces of their tennis shoes, in their tennis shoes, maybe on their backpack, maybe on their sweater. You know, at this day and
age, very often, people use what are called tiles (ph). And they attach them to their cell phones, their keys, their iPads so they can be found
quickly. It`s the same premise. And how that would have helped us in this case! But always 20/20 hindsight when you`re looking backwards, right?
For those of you joining us, the search for little Noah has come to an end. Noah`s body has just been found by law enforcement one-and-a-half miles
from the point he goes missing.
Now, Keith Sherley, could you explain to me -- I`m understanding what ultimately led them to little Noah tonight were tracks, tracks he left.
SHERLEY: Tracks and the dogs. You know, I`ve been telling you that the dogs were showing interest in areas. They never got started on a trail,
but they`d show an interest in an area. This came right up against that area. And also, they`ve been finding tracks.
[20:10:02]Some of these were old, but some of them were the wrong size. But some of them were fitting with Noah being in this area. This was all
the evidence that they`ve been telling us that they found the first couple of days and why they haven`t found any since then.
GRACE: Tracy Sargent joining me, search, rescue and recovery expert. Tracy, thank you for being with us. Explain, interpret to me what Keith
just told us because we know that cadaver dogs did not hit anywhere, but we understood that tracker dogs had hit. What happened?
TRACY SARGENT, SEARCH, RESCUE AND RECOVERY EXPERT (via telephone): Well, Nancy, in this situation, Noah being so small, only 25 pounds, he`s not
giving off a lot of scent. So you have wind conditions, the rugged terrain. The different types of valleys and peaks really cause a lot of
strange activity with scent.
So let`s say a dog is tracking the scent, and then they get into an area and they lose it. Especially in this kind of situation where you have
weather and terrain, it can really cause a lot of challenges to dogs and dog teams to try to remain on that scent and remain on that track.
GRACE: From my understanding, Matt Zarrell, we`re trying to determine cause of death right now. Do we know, Matt, were there any outward signs
of any injuries to the baby`s body, any whatsoever?
ZARRELL: Not that we know of, no.
GRACE: Everyone, you are seeing shots of baby Noah Israel Chamberlin. From what we understand right now, his body had not been harmed by animals.
He had been on a nature hike with Grandma and his 4-year-old sister, wearing bluejeans and a long-sleeved gray shirt. The search has raged in
Pinson, Tennessee, foothills for little Noah. Tonight, that search has come to an end. Noah`s body has just been found.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:16:23]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have found Noah Chamberlin. He was located one half mile from his -- where he went missing from.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Breaking news now. For those of you just joining us, the body of little Noah Israel Chamberlin has been found, the 2-year-old on a nature
walk, playing behind his grandma`s house, Pinson, Tennessee. He was with his grandmother and his 4-year-old little sister when somehow,
inexplicably, he goes missing in the densely wooded area around that walkway, Noah never seen alive again.
In the last hours, his little body has been found in a clearing one-and-a- half miles away from where he goes missing.
Keith Sherley, 101.5, Michael Quander, WREG, joining us there in Pinson, Tennessee. Michael Quander, again, we`re getting flooded with e-mails,
texts and phone calls. It`s just hard to understand how he could get that far away just on a simple nature walk, and no one noticed how he got away.
Just explain to me what the grandmother says, Michael.
QUANDER: Right. So what the grandmother told the sheriff the day that he went missing was that, you know, they were on a hike, a nature walk in the
back of their home, through the woods there. And when she turned around and focused her attention for a quick second on Noah`s 4-year-old sister,
she turns around, and the next thing you know, little Noah is gone.
You can imagine the panic that she had when she called police. They tell us that she was definitely very concerned about where he could have
disappeared to.
GRACE: Do we know, Keith Sherley, if the 4-year-old was questioned by police?
SHERLEY: Nancy, the pastor has described Noah as a little spider monkey who loved to play hide and seek. The 4-year-old was questioned by experts,
child behavior experts, and they concluded that everything that the 4-year- old said was in exactly the way the grandmother told the story, that they were out on this walk. Noah loved to run.
His pastor described him as a spider monkey. He loved to play hide and seek. He would run in the woods, he would hide, and that`s where this
tragedy began. It`s when he was running and playing.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Parag Shah, Atlanta, Misty Marris, New York. You know, Parag Shah, so often, when a child has been found dead, we look
to place blame. We look for answers, I guess to explain it to ourselves. There`s not always answers, Parag.
PARAG SHAH, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, that`s right. And this is a tragic event that happened, and it`s just sad that they just didn`t look far
enough.
GRACE: You know, Misty Marris, a lot of attention has been focused on the mom and the dad and the grandmother. The father was away on his job as a
trucker. The mother had left the children with the grandmother, never thinking anything had gone wrong. A lot of stories, rumors have sprung up
about the mom that afternoon. They have all been debunked. Now the grandmother is taking heat.
But you know what? Sometimes accidents do happen. Sometimes there is no explanation how things happen, as much as we want to look for an
explanation, Misty.
[20:20:07]MISTY MARRIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You`re absolutely right, Nancy. And of course, the police start with the family members. And here we found
out that all of those allegations have been debunked. And sometimes, Nancy, unfortunately, there just is no answer and it`s simply an accident.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Breaking news tonight. As we go to air, we learn the body of 2- year-old little Noah Chamberlin has been found. We don`t have a cause of death as of now. The body is being taken for an autopsy, the body found
about one-and-a-half miles from where little Noah goes missing, in a clearing.
The irony is, the child`s body is in a clearing. One would have thought that would have been visible by an aerial search. In this densely wooded
area, these Tennessee foothills, his body has been found in a clearing. The child is dead -- that from the searchers there in Pinson, Tennessee.
[20:25:07]I`m trying to determine how we know that no animal activity had occurred. Is the child still clothed? What more do we know about the
facts surrounding the discovery of his body?
Right now, to the lines. Brandy (ph) in Tennessee. Hi, Brandy. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. My question is actually about the aerial search. I`m wondering why they never spotted him and how quickly they
think he got to that open clearing and why the helicopters would not have seen him.
GRACE: You know, I`ve got the same question, Matt Zarrell. And again, this is not casting doubt on the search. They`ve given it their all. But
if there was an aerial search, and he`s in a clearing, I don`t understand how his body or him in that clearing before he died -- I mean, how long had
he been wandering in these woods, calling out for his grandmother?
How long had he been calling for mom and dad or for his sister? How long had he been in that open area, and why didn`t an aerial search see him?
ZARRELL: Yes, it`s a good question, Nancy, because we know the area was expanded to 1,200 acres, which is about 1.8 miles. That was a couple days
ago. And police said they expanded it further. So why the child was found a mile-and-a-half away from where he went missing when we know it was at
least 1.8 remains a mystery.
GRACE: And we also know that very inclement weather had set in, including rain.
Terry Lyles, right now, the family dealing with this heart-breaking news. And I know the grandmother is torn in half with pain. What do we do with
the grandmother?
TERRY LYLES, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, you know, Nancy, I mean, this is just heart-breaking. I have a 2-and-a-half-year-old downstairs, with my wife
putting to bed right now. And it just wrenches my guts to have to talk about this story. But life happens.
And for the grandmother, the mom, the dad -- you know, accidents happen, and we`ve just got to release and go through the grieving process.
[20:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NANCY GRACE, CNN HEADLINE NEWS HOST: A local school teacher pleads guilty under oath to molesting a boy student, but tonight in a bizarre twist, that
same teacher goes after the boy victim`s mother, suing the boy`s mother for stating that she, the teacher, was a, "sex predator."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not having to, you know, register as a sex offender is not a good thing because she`s still around young men.
GRACE: A teacher who police say had sex with two different male students at her school, suing the victim`s mother, claiming she defamed Ramirez when
she called the former teacher a sexual predator of children.
GRACE: Straight out to Frank Edwards, Program Director at KKTX. Frank, thank you for being with us. What is this all about? Didn`t the woman plead
to sex with a boy student?
FRANK EDWARDS, PROGRAM DIRECTOR AT KKTX: Thank you, Nancy. She indeed plead guilty to second degree felony charges and having an improper relationship
with a student who was a junior in high school, 17 years old at the time in 2014 when this first came up.
GRACE: Now, where do we get the two students tally from?
EDWARDS: Well, not much is known about the second student. The district attorney said that it`s a different individual than the 17-year-old male,
but the age of the alleged victim is unclear.
GRACE: Was it a student?
EDWARDS: Yeah, it was a student at that school.
GRACE: Okay, a high school -- both of these are allegedly high school students. Joining me right now are the attorneys for the teacher that plead
guilty to sex contact with a boy student. One of them, Amy Augustine Pratt out of Corpus Christie and Christopher Gail, also her lawyer -- to both of
you, thank you for being with us.
CHRISTOPHER GAIL, LAWYER: Thank you, Nancy.
AMY AUGUSTINE PRATT, LAWYER: Thank you.
GRACE: Now, your client, 31-year-old Tanya Ramirez, pled guilty in a court of law. Why is she suing the boy`s mother?
GAIL: Well, I mean, obviously she did plead guilty, and you know, one issue in regards to this case is we`re attacking the constitutionality of the
statute, but aside from that, you know, we`ve got to put it into context. Everyone talks about it just being a high school student but keep in mind
that as in Texas and other states, the legal age for concept for any sexual activity is 17 so we`re not talking about somebody that was a minor under
the age of 17. We`re actually talking about somebody who could make choices for themselves. So, the only thing that makes it a crime in this case --
GRACE: May i ask you a question?
GAIL: -- is the relationship. Sure.
GRACE: Okay, so with me is Christopher Gail. Also with me Amy Augustine Pratt, and they are the lawyers for this woman, a teacher, her name Tanya
Ramirez, she`s 31 years old, who pleads guilty to sex contact with one student and now I`m hearing reports there may be another student involved.
So, your theory is that because he`s 17, even though he`s still in high school, he should be able -- she should be able to have sex with him? I
mean, isn`t it true in Texas at age 17 you can`t drink, you can`t vote, you can`t be drafted, you can`t even buy a cigarette? But you`re saying its
okay for him to have sex with his teacher?
[20:35:00]GAIL: Well, the legislature says at 17 you`re of a majority for d:etermining sex and so, in the state of Texas, yeah, you can have sex with
whoever you want.
GRACE: But you can`t buy a cigarette?
GAIL: But if he wasn`t a student -- true, you can`t do that but.
GRACE: Okay, all right, what can you tell me about this other student she allegedly had sex with?
GAIL: Well, that was one of the allegations. She did not plead guilty to that. She pled no contest for the purpose of getting --
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, hold on. With me, Christopher Gail and Amy Augustine Pratt -- to both lawyers they are in Corpus Christi. So, she pleads guilty
to sex with one student, and she pleads no contest -- nolo contendere to another student which basically means, I don`t deny it and I don`t confirm
it, basically, if you say so. So, you`re telling me, she pled no contest with a second boy student?
GAIL: Yes, she did. So that we could get this finalized so we could do the notice of appeal for -- in regards to the constitutionality of the statute.
GRACE: Okay, wait, wait, wait. Christopher Gail, you and Amy both have excellent reputations, okay. Now, let me understand this. You`re saying
that she just went ahead and pled no contest to just clear it all up. It would be a cold day in h-e-l-l that I would plead guilty or plead no
contest, excuse me, to sex with a boy student! I mean, I`m just not buying that you did and she had her plead no contest just so you could rush ahead
with the appeal. As if that`s a quick process in itself.
GAIL: Well, look -- don`t get this wrong. She pled guilty in regards to the first boy. So really, the down side --
GRACE: You called him a boy. You called him a boy. He is a boy.
GAIL: He`s not a child, but he`s a boy. He`s a boy from 17 to 69 years old. They`re all boys.
GRACE: Isn`t it true that -- Stacey Newman, isn`t it true that this teacher, Tanya Ramirez, is also suing a boy student for videoing during the
sex and posting it on YouTube?
STACEY NEWMAN, CNN PRODUCER: Yeah, this is unbelievable. She said he invaded her privacy. Nancy, don`t you always say nothing happens -- great
happens after 2:00 a.m.?
GRACE: Well, I actually say nothing good happens after midnight, Stacey. Okay. Get it straight.
NEWMAN: Okay, well, she have this boy coming over her house at 2:00 a.m. Another student drove her to the house and while he was inside, took sex
video of the encounter, and then sent the video to 11 friends. Now, she`s suing him over that video.
GRACE: Okay. I`ve got to go back to these lawyers. Christopher Gail, Amy Augustine Pratt. I`m sure I`m (ph) your name and I`m going to apologize. I
plead guilty right off the top. Now, okay, let me get this straight. So now, your 31-year-old client is suing one of these boys for posting the
video of her having sex? And listen, if you`re going to have a big tattoo, at the bottom of your back, you know, that`s kind of an identifiable
marking. I mean, is there a doubt that it`s her?
GAIL: We`ve got -- we`ve got a client who is an adult suing another adult for videotaping them without their knowledge. Now, if he was 18, if he was
20, if he was 30, if he was 40, everyone would have a problem with him videotaping this. The difference is he`s 17, but as we stated before, 17 is
a perfect legal age and he`s a consenting adult for the purpose of sexual relations so.
GRACE: Well, you know what, let me hear your co-counsel just for a moment because Christopher Gail, true, you`re a great attorney in that area, but I
want to hear from Amy. Amy, isn`t that kind of the risk you take, when you have sex with a teen boy that is in your high school? You don`t think
they`re going to send a video or some of these, what, 3 - 400 text messages around school? You don`t think that`s going to get circulated?
PRATT: Let me just say this, as a woman, I would be very, very offended if someone videotaped me having sex without my knowledge and then disseminated
it to YouTube. And that`s what happened in this case. It`s not okay to videotape this woman.
GRACE: Well, Amy? Amy? Do you have children, Amy?
PRATT: I don`t.
GRACE: Because as a mom, I would be very angry if a teacher called my son at 2:00 a.m. and had him come over for a booty call, is that appropriate? I
mean, does that describe it to you, Amy? The boy comes over to her house, and they have sex at 2:00 in the morning? That`s what Stacey just told me -
- 2:00 in the morning!
[20:40:00]PRAT: Well, you know, first I would have to say, what kind of mother doesn`t watch her son and know where he`s at at 2:00 in the morning.
And second of all, he -- you know, in this situation, he may have been the one who was pursuing her. You know, (ph) calling him but yet him calling
her to see if he could stop by her house on the way home. So, you know, this -- people portray him as though he`s some sort of victim, but he`s a
high school kid out in the middle of the night, and his parents don`t know where he`s at.
GRACE: Okay, let me understand something. Frank Edwards joining me, the program director at KKTX. Frank, let me understand this. So, this 31-year-
old teacher, Tanya Ramirez, pleads guilty to sex with a boy student in her high school. She pleads no contest -- in other words, I`m not going to
fight it regarding another boy, but now she is suing the boy`s mom for calling her a -- what did she call him? Call her?
GAIL: Well, she called her a predator everything else. Ramirez claims the mother went to a lot of media outlets last year and called her a sexual
predator and accused her of sleeping with other students other than her son and then says Ramirez claims the teacher claims the statements caused her
emotional distress and led to her also losing a job at a local jujitsu academy.
[20:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: The gorgeous wife of a millionaire financial adviser found knifed to death, in their exclusive $2.5 million Scarsdale home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say a woman was found dead inside this home. Crime scene tape went up surrounding 50 Lincoln. Several hours later,
finally confirming to the media, they are now actively investigating a murder.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was found in a lifeless state.
GRACE: Straight out from Lisa G., 24/7 news correspondent. Lisa, I want to first point out that it has been 39 years since the last homicide in this
area of Scarsdale, but putting first things first. Where in the home was her body found?
LISA G., 24/7 NEW CORRESPONDENT: According to reports, Nancy, she was found in the bathroom.
GRACE: The bathroom, I guess, of the master bedroom?
LISA G.: That`s what I understand, yes, that she was taking a shower.
GRACE: And I noticed from the reports and the wires we`re getting Lisa G., from 24/7, she was knifed dead. To Dr. Ken Redcross, board certified
internal medicine in Concierge doctor. Dr. Redcross, that type of a murder is indicative of someone -- it`s called a sweetheart murder in a sense that
knifing someone dead suggests close, intimate contact with the person. You`ve got the woman, the victim in this case, Robin Goalman, who`s a
doctor herself, naked in the shower, knifed dead. That alone suggests knowledge between -- or at least a relationship of some sort between the
victim and the aggressor.
DR. KEN REDCROSS, BOARD-CERTIFIED PHYSICIAN OF INTERNAL MEDICINE: Absolutely. It`s someone who definitely knew the pattern. That`s one thing
that us as physicians -- we have certain patterns. We`re at certain places at certain times so, this murder was definitely committed by someone who
knew the victim`s actions, who knew what the victim was going to do, her routine, that sort of thing. That was absolutely apparent in this murder.
GRACE: Lisa G., joining us, 24/7 news correspondent. Lisa, is it true that the husband in this case, Jules, had actually filed for a divorce several
months before?
LISA G.: Yes, and they were set for their first appearance in divorce court just days before she was killed, Nancy.
GRACE: Oh, really? I didn`t know they actually had a court date just before she was killed. Lisa G., do we know if there is a surveillance system?
Let`s take a look at the house, if we can, Liz. Is there a surveillance system there? Do we know who was home at the time, or is there -- are there
-- the possibility there was a camera that would show if anyone came in or out of the home?
LISA G.: Well, from what I understand, many homes in that area do have those types of cameras, but police are keeping it very close to the vest
and not releasing a lot of information regarding that.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Parag Shah, defense attorney and author of "The Code." Ambrosio Rodriguez joining us from L.A. First to you Parag Shah,
here we are in the midst of a divorce. The husband files for a divorce and this goes down just before a court date. Doesn`t it look good, it does not
look good.
PARAG SHAH, CRIMINAL AND PERSONAL INJURY ATTORNEY: It doesn`t mean anything because you haven`t told me whether this was a contentious divorce, whether
they were arguing or fighting --
GRACE: That`s a good point.
SHAH: Or it could have been an amicable divorce, and in that case, it helps the defense.
GRACE: Okay, but what do you make of this fact that there was no forced entry in the home, nothing was stolen and there was apparently no sex
attack? What about that? I`ll throw that to you, Ambrosio Rodriguez.
AMBROSIO RODRIGUEZ, CRIMINAL DEFENSE LAWYER: Well, we still don`t know enough. I mean we don`t know the reason as to why he filed for divorce. She
could have been having an affair and it could be her lover that did this. We really know so little as to what`s going on. There also have been
reports that he had defensive wounds when the police arrived. So, if in fact he is the suspect, this could very well be a type of manslaughter,
heat of passion situation ...
[20:50:00]GRACE: Hold on just moment, To Terry Lyles.
RODRIGUEZ: ... and not a first degree murder case.
GRACE: ... I want to follow up Terry with what Ambrosio Rodriguez first blurted out, and that was maybe she had a lover and the lover did it. Why
is it in our culture, Dr. Lyles, that women, whenever they`re murdered, one of the first things that is blurted out with no shred of evidence to
support it whatsoever, that the woman was somehow engaged in an adulterous affair and that somehow that results in her murder as if it`s her fault.
Why is that? I haven`t seen a single case where there is an unsolved homicide of a woman that somebody doesn`t raise that flag. Why is that?
DR. TERRY LYLES, STRESS COACH: Yeah, it seems unfair, as you mentioned. And you know, we don`t know all the facts as we just mentioned, but I think
when you look at the psychological dynamics of this, regardless of what was going on, this was, you know -- it had to be some premeditation involved.
There was some issues going on between them, the divorce. The timing is really interesting -- killed in her shower. There could have been nothing
going in her life and he just lost it and did this or someone else did this.
GRACE: There is a lot going on in their lives.
LYLES: At the end of the day, there is a relationship.
GRACE: There is a lot going on in her life, Dr. Lyles. I mean she works with children. Her office is there in the Bronx. She is part of a medical
practice. She`s got a lot going on. She`s got three children that she has raised. I don`t know if there was anything adulterous going on in her life.
Both of them were outstanding members of their local synagogue and were in fact very, very involved in their synagogue. Matt Zarrell, at this hour,
the husband is insisting that he is innocent. He had nothing to do with it. Who placed the 911 call, Matt Zarrell?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: The 911 call was placed by the husband around 10:00 a.m. yesterday. It was a call reporting a woman was seriously
injured.
GRACE: Okay, back to you to you, Lisa G., 24/7 news correspondent. The husband is insisting he had nothing to do with this but he is the one there
on the scene that makes a 911 call. That doesn`t mean he is guilty, but what is his claim?
LISA G.: Well, right now he is not making any claim. They`re not telling us anything, but neighbors according to sources say that they did have a
history, Nancy, of marital problems.
[20:55:00](COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: The heartbreaking plea from a loving dad. Who killed my little girl?
UNIDETIFIED FEMALE: Nicole (ph) says her daughter`s life was innocently taken way too soon.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was my daughter. She was a sister. She was an aunt, and she was a niece.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 15-year-old Victoria Cantu was with friends when she was gunned down in the back seat of car, a deadly shooting that multiple
people witnessed.
GRACE: That exclusive video obtained by KTRK. Jeff Bonney, associate editor of Houston Forward Times. I understand she was shot while in the back seat
of a vehicle. What happened, Jeff?
GRACE: Hey, how are you doing, Nancy? Well, basically, Victoria Cantu was with some friends. She was at an event -- a popular event called SLAB
Sunday. And SLAB stands for Slow, Low and Banging. It`s a showcase for cars. You know, what ended up happened is her friend that was driving one
of the red Acura she was in swerved and got close to some guys. They got into an argument. They tried to drive and get away, and those guys followed
her and the people in the car and three other vehicles, they tried to drive off and they pulled out an assault rifle, shot in the car and she was shot
in the back. She would have been 16 years old next month.
GRACE: Everyone, take a look at this video. Jeffrey Boney, absolutely correct. Steven Becker with us, vehicle identification expert with Robson
Forensics. Steven, can you tell me by looking at this vehicle what kind of car are these?
STEVEN BECKER, VEHICLE IDENTIFICATION EXPERT: Sure. We have three cars. Two of them are two-door sedans, one is a single door coupe. The one-door coupe
is easily identified because of the rear window on the side makes it into an -- makes it resemble a Ford Mustang, 2005 to 2009. The other two cars
are mid-sized sedans. They have a few distinct characteristics, but the police will need to do a few scene measurements and they`ll be able to
calculate the wheel base of these two cars and identify the specific models.
GRACE: You know what, let me give out this tip line, 713-222-TIPS. 713-222- 8477. We believe a 2013-`14 silver Chevy Malibu with black paint damage to the right rear bumper. A 2010 to `13 gold Toyota Camry, and a 2005-`09
silver Ford mustang. Who murdered Victoria Cantu?
Let`s remember American hero Ohio police officer Thomas Cottrell Jr. killed in the line of duty. A central Ohio Tech grad remembered for a huge smile,
devoted to his three teen girls -- mother, Melissa, sister Nicole. Three daughters, life partner Tanya. Thomas Cottrell Jr., American hero tonight.
Please send your prayers for our friend Erin. She needs them now, fighting leukemia back at M.D. Anderson and remember prayers tonight to find missing
Noah. Thanks to our guests, but especially to you. Nancy Grace signing off. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, good night.
[21:00:00]
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