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Nancy Grace
Jodi Arias Phone Call From Prison; Search for 2-year-old Noah Chamberlin Comes to an End; Mom Accused Of Murdering Her Newborn Let Out On $5,000 Bond, Gets Pregnant Again. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired January 26, 2016 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Jodi Arias, convicted in the cold-blooded slaughter of Mormon lover Travis Alexander after an all-day
marathon sex session, Arias stabs Travis 29 times and shoots him in the head, leaving Travis slumped over in a shower stall, all because he`s
taking another woman on a trip to Cancun.
But tonight, with gruesome crime scene photos of Travis`s slaughter still in mind, bombshell tonight. No shame whatsoever! Jodi Arias caught on
tape giggling and flirtatious as she describes a cushy life behind bars, dozens of cable and network TV programs she watches, the awesome chicken
fajita night, the caramelized onions, and quote, "the works," quote, "full contact visits," and even a music video starring her, Jodi Arias.
What? Jodi Arias is starring in a music video? Are you serious? And then, of course, the predictable whining about sandwich night, never
showing any regret about murdering Travis, never even mentioning his name!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you crying when you were shooting him?
JODI ARIAS, CONVICTED OF MURDER: I don`t remember!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you crying when you were stabbing him?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That from Radaronline.
After a judge lets her loose, walking free on bond, charged with murdering her first baby, 26-year-old Melissa Mitten (ph) gets pregnant again.
Tonight, in a shocking turn, another baby is gone. Mitten`s brand-new infant son goes missing, Mitten refusing to reveal where the second baby
is. She`s caught on video, though, flashing a big smile for the camera.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One newborn dead, another missing, both from the same mom.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Prosecutor says Melissa Mitten suffocated her daughter by stuffing her in a trash can.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mitten was released on a $5,000 bond and secretly had a second child, and this one is missing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: The search for 2-year-old Noah Chamberlin comes to an end, Noah`s tiny body find, ironically, in an open clearing not far from where he goes
missing, his body near ditches and briars, but not in the ditch, not a seencola (ph) cave but in an open area.
Breaking news tonight. As a preliminary cause of death revealed, rumors swirling the facts don`t fit the evidence. Allegations mount that the
status quo real autopsy was not performed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did Noah Chamberlin die?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have found Noah Chamberlin.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: According to a preliminary autopsy report, the 2-year- old Tennessee toddler died of hypothermia, yet rumors continue to swirl on social media that the child`s death is not simple as it seems.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. Jodi Arias, convicted in the cold-blooded slaughter of her lover, Travis Alexander, after an all-day sex marathon, Arias stabs
Travis 29 times and shoots him in the head for good measure, leaving him slumped over naked in the shower stall, all because he`s taking another
woman on a trip to Cancun and he refuses to cancel the trip.
But tonight, with those gruesome crime scene photos of Travis`s slaughter still fresh in our minds, no shame whatsoever, Jodi Arias just caught on
tape giggling and flirtatious as she describes a cushy life behind bars, dozens of cable and TV network programs she watches, the awesome chicken
Fajita night she has with caramelized onions and works, full contact visits -- what is that? -- and a music video starring her, Jodi Arias. Yes, you
heard me. Jodi Arias starring in a video? Are you serious? She`s a convicted killer!
And then, of course, there`s the predictable whining about sandwich night, never showing any regret about murdering Travis, not even mentioning his
name.
With me, senior reporter Radaronline.com Alex Tereszcuk. And also with me, the guy who has created this music video starring Jodi Arias, Kareem
"Lefty" Williams.
[20:00:09]First to you, Alexis Tereszcuk, Radaronline.com. I want to hear the conversation, the secretly recorded phone call. Have you listened to
it?
ALEXIS TERESZCUK, RADARONLINE.COM: I have, yes, many times. And Jodi sounds like she is in her living room, watching TV and just chatting on the
phone with her friend. She hardly at all sounds like she`s miserable locked up behind bars. She is locked up for life. She has no possibility
of parole. She`s chatting about whether she had chicken fajitas for dinner. She says she had pancakes for breakfast. They load her up on
carbs. But guess what? She`s only gained 4 pounds. This is...
GRACE: OK, you know what? Let`s listen to it with our own ears. Roll it, Liz.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
ARIAS: They had chicken fajitas here tonight.
WILLIAMS: Oh, wow!
ARIAS: They were so good. Yes, really good.
WILLIAMS: Oh (INAUDIBLE) I haven`t had a chicken fajita in so long.
ARIAS: Yes. It was a big old pile of, like, caramelized onions and some bell peppers and, like, all the works.
WILLIAMS: Oh, wow.
ARIAS: It was good, yes.
WILLIAMS: So you finally ate dinner tonight? Usually, you don`t go eat dinner. So you finally ate dinner.
ARIAS: Yes. Yes. Well, on the weekends, they give us a hot dinner, but on the weekdays, we get, like, sandwiches, nothing very good.
WILLIAMS: Oh.
ARIAS: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Now, this from Radaronline.com. And I want to get the next one loaded up.
With me right now is special guest, he`s a successful rap star. It`s Kareem "Lefty" Williams, who produced a video about Jodi Arias. Mr.
Williams, thank you for being with us. What prompted you to pick out Jodi Arias as the poster girl for domestic violence?
WILLIAMS: Well, because she suffers from -- she had -- she`s a victim of domestic violence (INAUDIBLE) PTSD. So -- and I covered the retrial.
GRACE: OK, hold on...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Now, let me understand what you just said. Everybody, you are seeing video from Kareem Williams`s YouTube page. Mr. Williams, you`re
telling me she is a victim of domestic violence, right?
WILLIAMS: Yes.
GRACE: OK. You do know that a jury rejected that after hearing, let me tell you, Mr. Williams, months and months and months of evidence...
WILLIAMS: Yes, I was there. I seen...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: You sat in the courtroom for months and months and months.
WILLIAMS: I sat in there, too.
GRACE: Yes, because I was there and I didn`t see you any day that I was there.
WILLIAMS: Yes, I was there for the retrial.
GRACE: Oh, the retrial. OK. Now, just so you know, the retrial dealt with sentencing only. And it did not deal with guilt or innocence. So
what you saw was specifically gauged at getting this jury not to give her the death penalty.
You know what? Let`s take a listen to Kareem "Lefty" Williams`s song. Let`s hear it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) cast the first stone. (INAUDIBLE) monster (INAUDIBLE) make her prosper (INAUDIBLE) posture (INAUDIBLE) Jodi from the
city of Warica (ph) (INAUDIBLE) she played (INAUDIBLE) like she (INAUDIBLE) on trial and (INAUDIBLE) win the case (INAUDIBLE) and the death penalty is
making things scary...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Mr. Williams, again, thank you for being with us. Did you at any point hear the testimony of how Travis was slaughtered after an all-day sex
marathon with Jodi Arias? He was not beating her, he was having sex with her.
WILLIAMS: I`m going to say if she wouldn`t have had the PTSD, I don`t think any of this would have happened in the first place.
GRACE: OK...
WILLIAMS: So let`s focus on -- let`s focus on bringing awareness to that, Nancy? Can we do that? Is that possible?
GRACE: Yes, you know what, Mr. Williams? You`re really barking up the wrong tree because I represented domestic violence victims for 10 years in
court, real victims that came in with broken ribcages, broken legs, broken arms, strangled. I worked the hotline in the battered women`s center for
nine years at night for free. I know about domestic violence, more than I can say on the air tonight. And putting up a cold-blooded killer like Jodi
Arias and giving her fame and fortune is absolutely wrong.
Liz, I`d like to play more of her jailhouse phone call with Mr. Williams, Kareem "Lefty" Williams, who`s produced this video. She is gabbing about
all the TV network stations she gets to watch, her favorite shows, fajita night, on and on, this woman getting 60, 70 letters a day from the love
(ph) lord (ph), including money. Not one word is ever mentioned of her murder victim.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
[20:10:14]WILLIAMS: What TV stations do you get?
ARIAS: I get the Spanish channel. It`s Univision. Well, I`m not saying it right (INAUDIBLE) and I get Freeform (ph), which is formerly ABC Family.
I get ABC, CBS, let`s see, PBS, let`s see now, Fox, BET. I get CNN, CMT, USA, Lifetime, A&E, Obyu (ph), and also, I get a -- there`s a Catholic
station and a Protestant station contingent.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ma`am, were you crying when you were shooting him?
ARIAS: I don`t remember! (INAUDIBLE)
[20:15:04]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you crying when you were stabbing him?
ARIAS: I don`t remember!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Now we learn that Jodi Arias is the star of her own music video, and it`s produced with a very well-known musician and producer, Kareem
"Lefty" Williams. And he is using Jodi Arias, of all things, as the poster girl for domestic violence. You`re seeing right here video from Kareem
Williams`s YouTube page.
Mr. Williams is with us. Straight back out to Kareem "Lefty" Williams, who produced this video. Mr. Williams, you spoke with Jodi Arias on many
occasions. Some of those have been recorded, as a matter of fact. What was your impression of Jodi Arias behind bars? What did she tell you? I
noticed that you commented about how beautiful she was and that nobody should look that good behind bars.
WILLIAMS: Yes, she`s a nice-looking woman. I mean, she`s not my type, but she`s a nice-looking woman.
GRACE: So how do you reconcile using her to be the victim in your music video when she`s actually a convicted killer?
WILLIAMS: How do I reconcile? I believe she`s the poster child for PTSD and domestic violence, and that`s what we want to bring awareness to. So
that`s why I used her.
GRACE: Joining me also, Tammy Rose, investigative reporter who covered the trial, who has also interviewed Williams. Tammy, thank you for being with
us. Question to you. She had a few choice words regarding her defense attorney, Kirk Nurmi.
TAMMY ROSE, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Yes, I mean, she never got along with him from the very start. She wanted to get rid of him. Nurmi didn`t want
to be a part of her team, but he was forced to stay with Arias.
And this recorded conversation that everyone is listening to happened on January 10th between Kareem Williams and Jodi Arias, who he`s obsessed with
Arias and he`s gone to prison at least three times to talk to her. And you`d be surprised at how many people across the country are obsessed with
this case.
GRACE: With me right now, L. Kirk Nurmi, Jodi Arias`s defense attorney, author of "Trapped With Ms. Arias." You know, Kirk Nurmi, you stated to me
that she was repeatedly flirtatious with you throughout the trial and gave some very, very interesting examples, such as what, Mr. Nurmi?
KIRK NURMI, ARIAS`S FMR. DEFENSE ATTORNEY (via telephone): Well, it`s good to be with you again, Nancy. We talked about, as I outline in the book,
her stories about her vaginal grooming, her flirtatious behavior. Yes, I document it all in my book. And so that`s why I would take a little issue
with what Ms. Rose is saying, in the fact that this was the five-and-a- half-year-long relationship. And back in the day, before I tried to leave her case, this is the sort of behavior we saw out of Ms. Arias.
GRACE: L. Kirk Nurmi, Jodi Arias`s defense attorney, the author of a new book "Trapped With Ms. Arias," did you say she continued to discuss her
vaginal grooming with you? Did I hear that correctly?
NURMI: Yes. We talked about that a lot of time. That was something that happened early on in my representation of her, yes. And I tell that story
in my book. It`s just a general inappropriate behavior on Ms. Arias`s part.
GRACE: Alexis Tereszcuk, senior reporter, Radaronline.com. Jodi goes on the attack, Jodi Arias attacks Nurmi, saying everything that he writes in
his book is total BS. Her words, not mine. Did you hear that?
TERESZCUK: I did not hear that. That`s not on the recording that we have on Radaronline, but I was told that by "Lefty" Williams, that that was a
conversation that they had had on a previous time.
And as we`ve spoken about, he has been to visit her multiple times. You`re exactly right when you say it`s BS. That is the exact word that she used.
It was about Mr. Nurmi being her boyfriend -- that was one of the things that he said, that he felt she treated him like a boyfriend, and she said
that that was BS, and (INAUDIBLE) at all. She does not like him at all.
GRACE: Secret recordings of Jodi Arias behind bars describing her cushy life, never once mentioning Travis Alexander, her murder victim.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
WILLIAMS: You know what the funny thing is? You`ll die when you hear this. They created a -- what do you call it, a party? A party?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Parody.
WILLIAMS: A parody, that`s what you call it. Thank you. A parody of the video.
ARIAS: Serious?
WILLIAMS: Yes.
ARIAS: Oh, you should be flattered. It doesn`t matter how bad it is, you should be totally flattered that somebody took the time.
[20:20:00]WILLIAMS: I`m talking about within 24 hours of the video dropping, there was a parody out.
(LAUGHTER)
ARIAS: Wow! That`s crazy. These people either have no life, or they`re really in love with you.
WILLIAMS: I doubt they are in love with me, so it`s more of they don`t have a life.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAMS: (INAUDIBLE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That from Kareem Williams`s YouTube page. He`s actually using Jodi Arias to star in a music video. There you`re still seeing it. She goes on
the attack on Kirk Nurmi. And I hear so many excuses for Jodi Arias murdering Travis Alexander, it`s making my teeth hurt.
[20:25:15]With me, Dave Hall, close friend of victim Travis Alexander, Dave joining me from Boise. Thank you for being with us.
DAVE HALL, FRIEND OF VICTIM (via telephone): Happy to be here.
GRACE: Dave, what is your response to finding out that Jodi Arias is caught on tape giggling, having a giggle fest and being flirtatious on
line, on the phone, talking about awesome fajita night with all the works, whining about sandwich night, about having full contact visits with
visitors where the visitors can touch, talking about all the network TV she gets and her favorite show -- Lifetime, by the way, one of her favorites.
She gets 70 or so letters a day, many of them including money.
How does that sit with a dear friend of Travis Alexander who will never walk this earth again?
HALL: Yes, Nancy. I listened to the entire recorded phone call from prison, and this is exactly why the family and friends wanted the death
penalty. It`s just to make this circus go away.
I mean, not only is Mr. Williams not very talented as a musician, he`s not a very smart businessman. This is like kind of like PETA putting up
Michael Vick as a spokesperson for how animals should be treated.
Never once was she ever proven to have PTSD by anyone that wasn`t paid a significant amount of money. In fact, after 18 days on the stand and
talking about the fog, her PTSD, at the sentencing, she sat up, looked the family in the face and said, Actually, I do remember Travis suffering. I
do remember that he didn`t die quick.
This lady is a disgusting -- I`m not even going to use the word that I want to use right now. But for Mr. Williams to go out there and try to profit
from putting her on his videos just shows that he`s not much better than her. And I hope nobody ever spends a penny on any of the products that he
ever puts out there in the music world because if he was talented, they`d be talking about his music, not about his stupid business (ph) moves (ph).
GRACE: L. Kirk Nurmi joining me, Arias`s former lawyer, author of "Trapped With Ms. Arias." Are you surprised, Kirk, that she`s starring in a music
video and getting 70 letters a day, enjoying awesome fajita night behind bars and kicking back with Lifetime?
NURMI: Not at all. I mean, you know, this is kind of the cult of Jodi that surrounds her, these people, these groupies that started glomming onto
her during the case and the correspondence she started getting. So although I never would have predicted she would be in a quote, unquote,
"rap video," nothing about what has happened since the case has oversurprises (ph) me, so to speak.
GRACE: Yes, you`re seeing right now the YouTube page from Kareem Williams.
[20:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: The search for 2-year-old Noah Chamberlin comes to an end. His tiny body found ironically in an open clearing near where he originally is said
to go missing. His body found near ditches and wires but not in the ditches or sinkhole or cave. He`s in an open area breaking right now. A preliminary
cause of death revealed, but rumors swirling that the facts don`t fit the evidence. Allegations mounting that a real autopsy was not performed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It has now been several days since the body of missing toddler Noah Chamberlin was discovered in a clearing in the woods near
Pinson, Tennessee. Died of hypothermia and authorities insist there was no foul play and yet rumors continue to swirl on social media that the child`s
death is not as simple as it seems.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re thinking about you. God be with you.
GRACE: Dan Reeves with me, host out of Jackson, Tennessee, at 101.5. Dan, thank you for being with us. What is the preliminary cause of death?
DAN REEVES, HOST 101.5: Hypothermia.
GRACE: Now, why are they saying preliminary?
REEVES: That`s a great question and that has spawned a lot of questions, including -- so, this child had no wounds, bruises, scrapes, nothing after
walking two miles in the woods through rough terrain. He never fell down, no scratches, how can that be?
GRACE: You know what, that`s a good point, Dan Reeves and I`m not saying it didn`t happen, but that`s a good point. So, no scratches, no cuts, no
bruises, nothing after walking nearly two miles in extremely rough terrain. A lot of rumors are swirling, but I want to get to the bottom of a
preliminary cause of death. Joe Scott Morgan, certified death investigator, why does that need a preliminary cause of death?
JOE SCOTT MORGAN, CERTIFIED DEATH INVESTIGATOR: Well initially, what the authorities are saying, Nancy, is that on the whole, they can`t see
anything other than the effects of hypothermia. My guess is what they`re waiting on is going to be for microscopic tissue examinations and also the
toxicology. That is the results that come back ...
GRACE: What this suggests to you -- would this suggest to you, Dan Reeves, that a full autopsy has not been done?
REEVES: Yes, he`s correct.
GRACE: Okay, why hasn`t a full autopsy been done or has it been done? Dan?
REEVES: Well, that`s the question I can`t answer. All we`re getting here is preliminary autopsy leading me to speculate that there`s more to come.
[20:35:00] GRACE: I`m sorry, I`ve never even heard of a preliminary autopsy. Joe Scott Morgan, a preliminary autopsy or is a preliminary cause
of death. When people say preliminary autopsy, does that mean a full autopsy has not been done?
MORGAN: No, no, no. That`s not the case. What they`re saying is that grossly with the unaided eye they couldn`t see anything that would indicate
trauma. It looks like it`s --
GRACE: Wait a minute --
MORGAN: Yeah?
GRACE: I`m sorry to interrupt. I`m trying to get just -- Morgan, let me rephrase my question, in order to determine for instance whether the infant
was strangled or asphyxiated or smothered somehow, if you didn`t see outward signs you would actually have to look within the eyes and behind
the eyes to see if the tiny vessels in the eye are hemorrhaged. When someone goes without oxygen, these vessels in your eye burst and you can`t
really see that except under microscope. So, if you look at the body with the naked eye, you wouldn`t see that.
MORGAN: Well, you can see them just by pulling down the eyelids. You can take a look at it and you are going to do a very thorough job on this case,
Nancy, because it has been brought to such prominence in the national mind. They`re looking at the laboratory results, toxicology and they are also
looking at the microscopic tissue. This takes days and days.
GRACE: A lot of focus has been cast on the parents and the grandmother and joining me right now in their defense is family pastor Andy Morris.
Reverend, thank you for being with us.
ANDY MORRIS, PASTOR OF THE HIGHLANDS IN CHESTER COUNTY: Yes, ma`am, thank you.
GRACE: Reverend Morris, you know this family. You know them very, very well. What is your response? There was this first allegation that the
mother, Noah`s mother, was just sitting idle at a Walmart as her child was being pronounced missing, not looking for him, not helping. That turned out
to be a lie. That`s not true. I think a lot of people are anxious because they never saw the parents or the grandmother speak out. The grandmother`s
name has been kept secret, that`s never been revealed. That gets people speculating, but you know them. Tell us what you know, Reverend Morris.
MORRIS: This is an amazing family. This family searched tirelessly day and night. As a matter of fact, they literally had to be asked them to stop and
rest for their own safety. Now, (ph) them for over four years they have been members of our church. They are very faith-driven, very Godly people
and that`s where they found their strength, their comfort, just to keep moving, just to keep going.
But one thing that they`ve asked me to speak when I do interviews is to say, thank you, thank you, thank you for all the people that came out and
supported and searched day in and day out. It`s just an amazing turnout from our community and surrounding states.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENIFIED MALE: How did Noah Chamberlin die?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have found Noah Chamberlin.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: According to a preliminary autopsy report --
GRACE: Rumors swirling after a preliminary autopsy result says hypothermia the cause of death. Little Noah found in an open clearing, why was he not
spotted for two weeks if he were laying out in the open? With me right now, Michael Christian on the story. Michael, what are the rumors that have
cropped up regarding little Noah`s disappearance and death?
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: There are quite a few of them, Nancy. There are that the local sheriff was close friends with the family
and therefore couldn`t do an impartial investigation.
GRACE: Hold on, hold on. So one of the arguments that`s -- Dan Reeves with 101.5, is that the sheriff -- the elected sheriff, close friends with
Noah`s family and could not be impartial. Is there any truth to that?
REEVES: Well, Sheriff Weaver addressed that. He`s denied being close friends with the family. One of the big questions is when you mentioned
hypothermia the cause of death, well, how long had Noah been lying in there in the woods, six days, two days, just think about it. If he was lying
there three, four, five days, excuse me, but are (ph) going to miss that? Coyote, bobcats -- the preliminary autopsy revealed no superficial damage
to Noah`s body.
GRACE: You know what, that`s extremely interesting because you would be able to determine the approximate time of death, certainly the day. So, how
did his body lie there for so long completely untouched, unbruised, unmarked in any way, no animal activity. Michael Christian, the sheriff had
debunked the theory that he was so close to the family he could not be impartial. What are the other rumors swirling?
CHRISTIAN: There`s another one that Noah`s grandmother must have been involved because she didn`t have him dressed appropriately for frigid
weather. I mean, it was cold and ...
GRACE: So, what about that? Dan Reeves, I recall him being dressed in a long sleeve gray shirt and blue jeans.
REEVES: That`s correct. Now, the day Noah went missing it was unseasonably warm. We had temperatures in the 60s. You bring up the blue jeans, now
that`s another great point. If you`re in the woods in west Tennessee this time of year, there`s no foliage. It`s basically gray woods sticking out of
the ground. How you can miss blue jeans, there`s nothing in the woods that`s blue, right?
[20:40:00]GRACE: Got it, got it.
REEVES: That`s another question.
GRACE: I hear you. I hear you, Dan Reeves. As far as what he was wearing that day, I don`t think there`s any fault to the grandmother with him
wearing a long-sleeve shirt and long-sleeve pants to go outside in 62- degree weather, but I hear what you`re saying about why he wasn`t spotted with the blue jeans on. Are there other rumors, Michael Christian?
Allegations?
CHRISTIAN: Another one Nancy is that people just can`t conceive how a 2- year-old could get away from his grandmother as quickly as she says that happened.
GRACE: Marc Klaas, will you address that.
MARC KLAAS, FOUNDER OF KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: (ph) Yes, first of all Nancy, the grandmother was probably looking away for more than a minute. The
little guy probably scampered off out of sight like more quickly than anybody could even imagine. Secondly, if there was something under foot
here, somebody had actually done something to this child, wouldn`t it make an awful lot more sense for them to hide the child under a log or in a
crevice or something?
But to leave him out in the clearing, that just doesn`t support the theories and the rumors that are spreading around. And thirdly and finally,
you know, it was not a cold day when the little boy disappeared but the weather changed very, very quickly and in fact, if they hadn`t found him
when they did, they probably would have had to call the search off until after the winter, until after the snow melted.
So, i mean, they were out there diligently working and they finally reached the spot where the little boy was. Remember, they`re always expanding the
search location from the center all the way out to the point where they finally found him, when they got out there, they found him and they were
able to bring him home and give this family the closure that they deserve.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: After a judge lets her loose, she walks free on bond after she`s charged with murdering her first baby, 26-year-old Melissa Mitin gets
pregnant again. Tonight in a shocking turn, another baby, a second baby is gone. Mitin`s brand new infant son goes missing. Mitin refusing to reveal
where the second baby is and tonight, she`s caught on video flashing a big smile for the cameras.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A mom accused of murdering her newborn is let out on a $5,000 bond, gets pregnant and has another baby that`s gone missing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She doesn`t remember. She didn`t know where the baby was.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, Mitin is back behind bars but her newborn son is still missing.
GRACE: Okay, it`s hard for me to take in, Steve Gruber, host of the Steve Gruber Show, Michigan Talk Network. Steve, that she actually is charged.
Okay, there is the smile. She`s ready for her close up. She`s actually charged with killing the first infant after giving birth. Then a judge lets
her out. She walks free on bond. I can`t wait to hear who that judge was. Lets her walk free and she immediately gets pregnant again.
I guess this is the one where she says, I didn`t know I was pregnant. You know what, I don`t know how that`s possible, but then the second baby goes
missing, a little infant baby boy. What is going on, Steve Gruber? Not one but two infants dead?
STEVE GRUBER, HOST OF STEVE GRUBER SHOW: Nancy, it`s pretty clear here. This is a mom who didn`t want to be a mom. She was more interested in
putting two babies in the garbage. I mean, let`s be honest here, she`s out like you said on bond for murdering her infant daughter who her mother, the
daughter`s grandmother, finds in the trash can of their friend`s house upside down -- umbilical cord, placenta -- just a horrifying scene.
And then she`s released on bond for $5,000 as you mentioned Nancy. While she`s out, they figure out she`s not acting quite properly and through the
course of their investigation, to find out she`s pregnant in early December -- 35 weeks pregnant. A couple of --
GRACE: Thirty five weeks pregnant. That`s kind of hard to believe you`re 35 weeks pregnant and you don`t know anything about it. What you`re seeing
right there is the actual trash bin where the first baby was killed. Justin Freiman, how was the first baby killed?
JUSTIN FREIMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well Nancy, the first baby was killed and it was put in this trash bag in a can where family members were staying
with a friend and the family members actually found it there and of course, as we know, down the road she`s accused of placing another baby in trash.
GRACE: Joe Scott Morgan joining me, certified death investigator and professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University. The first baby,
the little baby girl was reportedly put face down and then smashed down in this trash can in these people`s home in their bathroom, that she gives
birth, doesn`t tell anybody about it and murders the baby. Now, how does that work?
MORGAN: Well, the baby is placed face down in a trash can, Nancy, and the baby was breathing at the time. The child would have died as a result of
what`s called positional asphyxia. That means literally, the baby was suffocated by its own weight being pressed down into the trash. As we all
know, infants can`t move very well, wouldn`t have been able to move its head to the left or the right so that it could breathe. Horrible way to
die.
GRACE: Everyone, you are seeing the trash can that was brought into court where the first baby was killed. Marc Klaas joining me, president and
founder of Klaas Kids Foundation. How did a judge let her walk on bond after murdering a baby? If she had murdered an adult that would never have
happened.
[20:45:00]KLAAS: Yeah, there`s no question about that, Nancy and I think this is more about murdering an individual than having a baby because there
is a million ways that one cannot have a baby this (ph). I mean you can start with an abortion. You can give it away for adoption. You can leave it
at a police station. There is so many ways to deal with this. This woman simply wanted to kill someone and the easiest way for her to do that
without even leaving her own bedroom was to give birth, twice.
GRACE: Unleash the Lawyers, Robin Ficker, defense attorney out of Maryland, Austin Dove, defense attorney out of L.A. First to you Mr. Ficker, at this
point, she`s a serial killer. She is lying about the second baby, refusing to reveal where it is, claiming I don`t recall. How can you not recall
where your second baby is after you`ve already been charged with killing your first baby?
ROBIN FICKER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: We need a psychological evaluation. Obviously, this is a case of postpartum depression. You see her smiling but
she`s not smiling inside. She has a very serious psychological problem. It`s evident, I`m sure you can see it, Nancy.
GRACE: No, actually. I can`t see it. What I do see is a woman that has the blood of two infants on her hands. Okay Dove, what`s your defense?
AUSTIN DOVE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: listen, Nancy, any thorough defense goes back -- you have to rewind the clock and go back into what is inside of her
mind? We conclude just by the presence of the baby and the circumstances that this is a foregone conclusion that is murder. We got to back the tape
up and really look what was in her mind? Every defense --
GRACE: That`s not true.
DOVE: -- as it happens, starts in the mind. We got to be -- yes, there are also ...
GRACE: Hold on, Austin. Hold on.
DOVE: There are also outward manifestations but you got to look back and say what happened in her mind. And as my colleague pointed out, there could
be something to do with postpartum depression ...
GRACE: Could be. Okay, Austin.
DOVE: ... infirmities envision her mind that has this act to happen. The downside way before the ...
GRACE: Austin, you`ve said the same thing like four times in a row, something about rewinding a tape. Okay, let me remind both of you of the
law. Just because you want to be the way you`re saying, that doesn`t mean that`s what the law is. The law states in black and white that the state is
not required to prove motive. That is the law. The law does not require anyone to get into the mind of a defendant and figure out why.
As a matter of fact, Patricia Saunders, clinical psychologist who I`m really worried about their state of mind is Judge Mark Bloomer, the
magistrate that let this woman go on $5,000 bond, which equals in our world $500. She walks free, rushes out, there you go -- thanks, judge and she
gets pregnant again. I guess she doesn`t know where babies come from because she says she didn`t know she was pregnant at 35 weeks.
Okay, it`s just a big lie and now is refusing to reveal where the baby is. Patricia, did you see where she told someone behind bars about killing the
baby?
PATRICIA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes, I did. She`s lying through her teeth. You know, it`s embarrassing and absurd that a defense attorney
would talk about this woman having postpartum depression. She shows no signs of it. We`ve read nothing about it. Her defense attorneys would trap
that out immediately. She was also found competent to stand trial. The issue is --
GRACE: I`m glad you brought that up, Dr. Saunders.
SAUNDERS: Yes.
GRACE: Competent to stand trial. That means her defense shrink, her psychiatrist or psychologist has said she`s competent to stand trial. The
state has and probably a court-appointed psychiatrist has done the same. So, all this business about debilitating depression is not true.
SAUNDERS: No, it`s not and there is no way that they can try the Hail Mary pass of an insanity defense.
GRACE: You know, Steve Gruber joining me. Steve, why did a judge let her walk free on a $500 bond after killing the first baby only for her to get
pregnant and kill the second baby? Why?
GRUBER: Well, you know, that`s going to be a hard question to answer and that`s a question that magistrate`s going to have to answer now in the
light of this evidence.
GRACE: Let`s remember, American hero Army Private First Class Anthony Alex Gaunky, just 19 -- Sparta, Wisconsin, bronze star purple heart, loved Star
Wars, Monty Python, and riding bike trails. Donated his organs so others can live including an 11-year-old little girl. Parents Lorrie and David,
three brothers. Anthony Alex Gaunky, American hero.
Thank you for being with us. Nancy Grace signing off. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp eastern and until then, good night friend.
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