Return to Transcripts main page
Nancy Grace
Florida Dentist Accused of Torturing Children; Affluenza Teen Transferred to U.S. Adult Jail; Two Virginia Tech Students Under Spotlight for Murder; Casey Anthony Launches Photography Business. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired February 08, 2016 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: Breaking news tonight. Claims a well-respected pediatric dentist makes children scream in pain, Jacksonville dentist Dr.
Howard Schneider under fire amidst claims he performs extremely painful dental procedures on children without anesthetic, tying them down, arms and
legs, on so-called papoose boards, disallowed parents from coming into the treatment room, and he`s been doing it for decades all allegedly to satisfy
his, quote, "sadistic appetite." Photos showing little children with bruises, swollen lips, unnecessarily removed teeth caught on video.
Bombshell tonight. The courtroom explodes as the so-called evil dentist makes an appearance.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think I`m bad?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s what he did.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ma`am! Ma`am! (INAUDIBLE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: A rich kid high on weed and Xanax mows four people down dead, a fifth paralyzed, gets straight probation for killing four. Then he and his
mommy go on the run to Mexico, living it up in a beachside resort, blowing $2,000 on strip clubs.
In the last hours, Ethan Couch, the so-called "affluenza teen," on U.S. soil and transferred to adult jail. Mommy still free on bond. Jail
amenities? Ice cream sundaes and workout videos. But tonight, is affluenza teen in danger?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Affluenza teen Ethan Couch has been transferred now from a juvenile facility to an adult jail.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Finally now, justice can be served for those poor victims and their families.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And the judge will decide later on this month if the 18-year-old, in fact, should be prosecuted as an adult.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: A 7th grade girl vanishes from home, focus on two Virginia Tech University superstars, engineering majors, track star, NASA intern,
evidence this was no spur-of-the-moment killing, the V Tech students planning the murder up to three weeks. The explosive motive for murdering
a school girl revealed. Did the little girl unwittingly reveal her so- called boyfriend?
Breaking right now, the female suspect laughing out loud in court, whining about a gluten-free diet, demanding hypoallergenic mattress. Another
bombshell. Did the female V Techer actually plan the whole thing?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say Virginia Tech students David Eisenhauer and Natalie Keepers planned her murder for weeks.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The plot to kill 13-year-old Nicole Lovell over a fast food meal.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) body. It was found dumped on the side of a North Carolina road across the state line from her home in Virginia.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But now a new twist in the case.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: One of America`s most hated moms, tot mom, Casey Anthony, now pushing 30 alive and well, seen here in exclusive Dailymail.com photos --
she`s launching her own photography business with money backing from a renowned PI who helped clear her of murdering her 2-year-old tot, Caylee.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tot mom Casey Anthony convinced a jury to let her off on a murder charge in the death of her little girl, Caylee.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look what you`ve done.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now can she persuade the public to buy her latest piece of work, her photography?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. Claims a well-respected pediatric dentist makes children scream in pain, Jacksonville dentist Dr. Howard Schneider under
fire, claims he performs painful dental procedures on children with no anesthetics, tying them down, arms and legs, on a so-called papoose board,
disallows parents to come into the treatment room, and he`s been doing it for decades all allegedly to satisfy his, quote, "sadistic appetites."
Photos showing children with bruises, swollen lips, unnecessarily removed teeth, swollen lips, even caught on video,
Bombshell tonight. The courtroom explodes as so-called evil dentist makes a first appearance. I want you to hold onto your seats and be prepared. I
want you to see and know what we know.
[20:05:00]Listen.
(VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: ... Johnson, reporter from CNN affiliate WJXT. I can`t take hearing the rest of that video. But I don`t know how any dentist can plead
not guilty with video like that floating around. I mean, what, should I believe him or my lying eyes? What`s happening, Scott?
SCOTT JOHNSON, WJXT CORRESPONDENT: Well, this has been something that`s been building continually since last spring. We weren`t quite sure how to
cover it. As it started, it was just some allegations from parents. Then we started drip, drip, drip. We`d see that video that you played. We saw
parents protesting outside his office. We saw him even be physically attacked at one point by a parent.
Then we started to get on board and realized this is more than just some small claim. Dozens of parents started to come forward.
GRACE: Well, thank God, WJXT, that you guys were on it and got police into it, as well. You just mentioned a parent attacking the dentist. I don`t
necessarily blame the parent after what I know. Look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) another kid -- (EXPLETIVE DELETED)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ma`am! Ma`am! Ma`am!
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ma`am! Ma`am! Ma`am!
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What, what, what? Call the police. (INAUDIBLE) I am the police.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Come on, now. Come on, now. Come on, now. You don`t want to go to jail for that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am the police!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You don`t want to go to jail for that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait! The dental assistant is saying, "You don`t want to go to jail for that" to the mom? She should be saying it to the
dentist she`s working for. This has been allegedly going on for decades.
For those of you just joining us, a well-respected pediatric dentist has been uncovered -- look at this child`s mouth! Isn`t it true, Chris Spargo,
Dailymail.com, that a child went in to have one tooth pulled, and they ended up pulling, what seven more teeth, including the kid`s front two
teeth? And when the parents questioned the dentist, he said, Oh, well, they`re baby teeth. They were going to come out anyway.
CHRIS SPARGO, DAILYMAIL.COM: That is true. There was one situation with a child with epilepsy who was just supposed to have a tooth removed. The
parent was not allowed in the room. They went in at the end. They said there was blood everywhere. They took the child to a children`s hospital,
they were so concerned. They found out seven teeth had been removed. Another child...
GRACE: Wa-wait! Stop, stop, stop, stop, stop! Stop! Chris Spargo, Dailymail.com, you said the little girl with epilepsy? Now, is this the
little girl that he put on a papoose board, and that somehow, she fell off during it and hit her head?
SPARGO: That`s correct.
GRACE: Are you telling me the little girl with epilepsy, she`s 7 -- how many teeth did she have pulled?
SPARGO: Seven teeth.
GRACE: OK, Andrea Isom with us from "Crime Watch Daily" -- Liz, pull up the interviews "Crime Watch" got with these little children.
Andrea, thank you for being with us. Everyone, listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What do you think I need to know about this guy?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That he hurted me. And I was yelling for my mom, but he wouldn`t let my mom and my dad in, and that he choked me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Domenic (ph) went in to have one tooth extracted.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Instead of pulling that, he put a cap on it just to cover it. And it was so dirty underneath...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) infected.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. It was badly infected.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They say Schneider pulled Domenic`s front teeth instead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How did he treat you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bad. He pulled my teeth out and he choked me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you show me what he did to yourself, like...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was squeezing it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Hard.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Real hard? That must have been scary.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My face was red.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That is from CrimeWatchDaily.com, and that`s just the tip of the iceberg. What I don`t understand, Andrea Isom -- I`ve got the affidavit
and the complaint right here. This is all about Medicaid fraud. I mean, this guy, according to police, has stolen $4 million in about four years.
And apparently, he has just hightailed it to an exclusive enclave in St. Simon`s Island. You know that`s about two miles from this, quote,
"millionaires` club" where Rockefeller and all the Rothschilds all had these beautiful vacation homes on the beach. Yes, he`s right down there.
So let me ask you. Andrea, where are the charges about what he did to these children? This is all about money, my money, actually, and your
money because we pay for the Medicaid.
[20:10:07]ANDREA ISOM, CRIMEWATCHDAILY: That`s my money. You better believe it.
GRACE: But where are the criminal charges on what he did to the children?
ISOM: And that`s what we are waiting for. Right now, there`s four cases right now. We talked about one of the ones with the epilepsy, which I
heard your response which is absolutely outrageous. Who would do such a thing? And then another case, where we have the parents, who were deaf,
Nancy, and their kid is crying and screaming...
GRACE: And they can`t hear him.
ISOM: ... wailing for help. And they can`t hear him. They get home, and they find bruises all over their child`s body. What is going on here? We
need those charges filed against him criminally. He has tortured, he is attacking, threatening children and parents...
GRACE: You know what?
ISOM: Listen to these cries. I can`t even listen to this!
GRACE: You are so right.
ISOM: It`s unbelievable!
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Misty Marris out of New York, Andell Brown out of Miami.
First to you. Misty Marris, what is your defense?
MISTY MARRIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, the defendant is going to argue that his actions didn`t deviate from what are the standards of the medical
community. He`s going to say every action he took was medically necessary, and that that`s the way dentists perform that type of work on children.
GRACE: Really? Because my dentists for my children have never tied them down to a papoose board and left them unattended.
And isn`t it true -- isn`t it true, Michael Christian, on the story, when the mom went back in there where the little girl was, the whole room was
covered in blood.
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): That`s correct, Nancy. They didn`t let her back for about 45 minutes. And when she
finally got back there, everything was apparently bloody.
GRACE: You know, Misty Marris, you say that this is SOP, standard operating procedure. But I want you, Misty Marris, to look at your
monitor. Don`t look away. Roll it, Liz.
(VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:16:28]UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He had scratches all across his face.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We do not strap (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But the teeth (ph) were not put up under the gum. They were just stuck there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Images of the bruising and the biting of the lip.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you`re going to treat kids, they`re going to bite their lip.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... abuse allegations and the possibility of Medicaid fraud.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am very ticked off about it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I can hardly stand to hear it, but I made Misty Marris watch it, so I watched it myself. I actually have chills on my arms, Scott Johnson,
WJXT.
I don`t really understand, and I have read this very carefully. Where are the claims of abuse on children? This is all about the $4 million that
police say he stole from Medicare (sic). When you have one kid come in and need a cap and he`d do eight or nine caps and take out their front teeth,
and do all -- and there was one little girl that had all this wiring put in on her bottom teeth. And nobody even knew what that was for. And there
was a strict policy, Scott, parents could not go back.
JOHNSON: There`s a couple things happening here. The abuse allegations have not been handled necessarily criminally. They have just been civil
lawsuit, a class action lawsuit by a lot of parents, maybe more eventually coming forward. Those have been handled on the civil end. The only
criminal infractions they`ve really gone after Dr. Schneider with have been these Medicaid fraud cases.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Scott?
JOHNSON: ... some new lawsuits with some new -- yes?
GRACE: That`s what I`m screaming! That is what I`m saying!
JOHNSON: Yes.
GRACE: Where are the criminal charges for what he did to these children?
You know, with me is Dr. Mark Snyder. He is a renowned forensic dentist and he`s joining us tonight out of Philadelphia. Dr. Snyder, you know, I
keep hearing him say that this is standard operating procedure. I`m just a JD, OK? You`re the DMD. I don`t believe this because when my children go
to the doctor, I go back there with them, all right? I go back there with them. And I don`t understand telling parents you can`t come back there and
tying them down on a board?
DR. MARK SNYDER, FORENSIC DENTIST: Nancy, in the year 2016, dentists are extremely well versed and experts in patient management and pain control.
So there are many options that a dentist has to control youngsters and special needs patients that could include medication by mouth, it could
include laughing gas, or something in a mask. And it can include other approaches. So you know, restraint is frowned upon in general, but there
are special circumstances where it might be necessary.
GRACE: You know, you might be right, Dr. Snyder. But the thing is, when all of the -- oh, my stars! When all of these children say the same thing
and a little girl is left unattended on a papoose board, she falls off and has swelling to her head and has to go to the hospital, this has gone too
far. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He sat on me (INAUDIBLE) sat on me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Dr. Schneider pulled eight baby teeth, even though Brielle`s (ph) mom claims she didn`t even have one cavity.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Four on the top and four on the bottom?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All of her front teeth and all of the bottom front teeth were gone. All she had was jaw teeth.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Brandy (ph) called police and took Brielle straight to the hospital.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I had police meet me there. And then they called DCF. And that`s when they started examining her and that`s when they
pointed out the handprints on her neck.
[20:20:04]UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Brielle later told her mom she had been choked. She also had a goose egg on her forehead the size of a golf ball.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How`d you get that bump?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He threw me on the ground.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The hospital discovered 5-year-old Brielle actually suffered a facial fracture.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Andrea Isom, CrimeWatchDaily, a fracture? A fracture and still we don`t have a criminal complaint for abuse? What, the state down there in
Duvall (ph) County only cares about the money?
ISOM: That`s what it seems like. It`s all about the money and nobody`s thinking about these kids. Somebody should be protecting them and their
best interests. They deserve justice for what happened to them.
I mean, just when you see these videos -- I mean, I can`t even -- the fact -- when Anna Garcia, which she`s so lovely with these children -- I wanted
to scoop these kids up and hug them and say, What can I do to get you justice? Because this is outrageous, what happened to these kids! This
guy is attacking them. He`s torturing them. He`s threatening them and their parents. I mean, how can anybody be so cruel and evil? And that`s
the only way you can describe a man like this.
GRACE: Well, you know, Liz, I want to see where the mom actually attacks the dentist.
To Ashley Willcott, certified child welfare law specialist -- he no different than any other child abuser. He is a monster hiding behind a
dental degree, Ashley Willcott.
ASHLEY WILLCOTT, CERTIFIED CHILD WELFARE LAW SPECIALIST: Absolutely here.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:25:31]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think I`m bad?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s what he did.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ma`am! Ma`am!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You choke another kid, (EXPLETIVE DELETED)?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ma`am!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Chris Spargo, Dailymail.com. So his punishment is that he leaves that jurisdiction and goes to live in a super-exclusive
beachside resort? That`s his punishment?
SPARGO: That`s correct. As soon as this became public back in May, he closed up. He gave up his license. He posted bail when he was charged,
and now he`s in Georgia.
GRACE: Well, what about all the money, the $4 million he allegedly defrauded the taxpayers from?
SPARGO: That is what he`s currently on trial for and appeared in court for today.
GRACE: OK. And I understand -- to you, Scott Johnson, WJXT, he and all of his fleet of defense attorneys are going to be back in court tomorrow
morning to get the charges thrown out. Who`s the judge in this case?
JOHNSON: Yes, Judge Angela Cox (ph). Now, I ant to tell you one thing. He tried to not even appear in court today. He has not appeared in court
at all until Judge Angela Cox forced him to come into court. He filed a motion, his attorneys did, to try and keep him out of court saying it would
harm his ability to get a fair trial, saying all the media cameras would be there to try and get a shot of him and portray him in a bad light.
But Judge Angela Cox said, I want you here in court for your arraignment. So he was finally here. I tried to talk to him afterwards, wouldn`t answer
any of my questions, wouldn`t even let me in the same elevator as him, saying it was full. So we can`t get a word out of him.
GRACE: Well, here`s the thing. It`s not your video that`s going to put him in a bad light. It`s that video of children screaming. And you know,
another thing, what about all the dental assistants? They stood by and held their nose and looked the other way while this was going to on? No, I
think they all need to stew in the same pot.
You know, another issue, Scott Johnson, WJXT. Who the hey is the district attorney in Duvall? I mean, why are there only money charges about, what
is this, Medicaid fraud where he would perform all these procedures that were unneeded on children? What about the violent crimes?
JOHNSON: That`s something we`re trying to clarify now. Is this all state attorney Angela Corey, who you may have known from the George Zimmerman
trial, or is this the attorney general`s office for the state of Florida, which looks like they`re more handling this, that it`s more the AG`s office
in the state of Florida, Pam Bondi`s office, involved in this. So there are a lot of partners coming into this, but we`re hearing the AG`s
office...
GRACE: Oh, no.
JOHNSON: ... is involved in this, as well.
GRACE: Too many cooks in the kitchen. That`s a problem right there because Ashley Willcott, here`s the deal, the real deal. The DA needs to
pick that ball up that somebody dropped and bring criminal charges. The statute of limitations is going to run, and they`ve got to do something
now. I mean, for Pete`s sake, we`ve given it to them on a silver platter, Ashley. Just look at the video, Ashley. Where`s the criminal charge?
WILLCOTT: Right. And at a minimum, Nancy -- at a minimum they need to charge this man with child abuse, and that`s at a minimum because it`s the
intentional infliction that a reasonable person should have known would have caused physical injury or mental injury.
And if you look at his record and the history of this man, there was a complaint against him as early as 2001, 2013 for marks, bruises, bleeding,
too many teeth pulled, multiple injuries, multiple children.
[20:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: A rich guy high on weed and Xanax mows four people down dead, a fifth paralyzed for life and gets straight probation for killing four.
Then, he and his mommy go on the run to Mexico, living it up at a beach side resort blowing $2,000 -- that hurts me to even say it -- on strip
clubs. Well, in the last hours, Ethan Couch, the so-called `affluenza teen` on U.S. soil, just transferred to adult jail, finally, while mommy is still
free on $75,000 bail. Jail amenities? Ice cream sundaes and workout videos. But tonight, is `affluenza teen` in danger?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were hopeful the judicial system will obviously deal with him in a different manner than the first time.
ROBYN WALENSKY, "THE BLAZE RADIO NETWORK" SENIOR NEWS ANCHOR: Judge will decide later on this month if the 18-year-old in fact should be with
prosecuted as an adult for allegedly violating his probation in a fatal DUI case.
GRACE: Robyn Walensky, senior news anchor with "The Blaze". Robyn, thank you for being with us. Number one, he`s back on U.S. soil. Number two, He`s
in an adult jail where he`s supposed to be. But what I don`t understand is the rest of the story. What`s going on?
WALENSKY: Well, Nancy, Listen. He`s now in the big boy jail here in Fort Worth at the adult correctional center and he`s awaiting two things -- he`s
awaiting his next court date and his birthday.
And they`re related because he`s turning 19 years old and the prosecutor is saying, you know what, this is no longer a kid. This is an adult and he`s
going to be 19 in April, on the 11th, and his entire case, the entire matter, needs to be transferred to the adult court system.
[20:35:00] GRACE: OK, what`s really disturbed me is that he`s only going to get, Sheryl McCollum, I`m afraid - former director Mad Mothers Against
Drunk Driving, Georgia, 125 days for four dead people, Sheryl.
SHERYL MCCOLLUM, MAD MOTHERS AGAINST DRUNK DRIVING, GEORGIA, FORMER DIRECTOR: Right. And he will serve as an adult, Nancy. That`s what he did,
he violated ...
(CROSSTALK)
MCCOLLUM: ... probation as an adult ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: A hundred and twenty-five days! And if he - and so if he serves it as an adult, Justin Freiman, like Sheryl McCollum is telling me, what can
you tell me about Blue Bell Ice Cream Sundaes and they roll in a video -- a workout video, a Richard Simmons Workout Video for him to have in his
private jail cell? I mean, what?
JUSTIN FREIMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: That`s right, Nancy, he`s in a private jail cell. His contact with the outside world is a 6 inch by 12
inch hole in the wall. And through it he is allowed to watch a Richard Simmons video so he can get his little workouts in.
They also bring the food to him food and there is a special treat cart that comes around and he can pay a little money and get himself Blue Bell Ice
Cream.
GRACE: That video, Time Life Entertainment via a YouTube of "Richard Simmons, Super Sweatin`, Party Off The Pounds." Wait a minute, so they feed
him Blue Bell Ice Cream Sundaes and then he gets his own private screening of Richard Simmons Workout Videos in his private jail cell?
FREIMAN: That`s right, Nancy. He stays in that cell all the time. If he wants to work out, they wheel over a cart with a T.V. on it and he gets to
watch a little Richard Simmons.
GRACE: OK, I don`t like it. I don`t like it at all. Sheriff Dee Anderson with me right now, Tarrant County sheriff.
Sherriff, thank you so much for being with us. You know, 10 years probation for killing four people, paralyzing a fifth, Sheriff, where the person can
see but they can`t move or eat, and it`s going to be that way for life. It doesn`t seem right that he`s going to get 120 days, or 125 days, for
killing four people, Sheriff.
DEE ANDERSON, TARRANT COUNTY SHERIFF DEPARTMENT: No, it`s not right, and unfortunately, with the juvenile law, the way it`s written in Texas, that`s
the only alternative that an adult judge will have when he gets the case.
If they transfer the case into adult court as a condition of probation, which he has to continue the original juvenile sentence, as a condition of
probation, he can sentence him to do 120 days in jail. But in the (inaudible), the good news is, as we`ve said, Nancy, he`ll then be put on
adult probation and his probationary terms will change drastically. It will be much stricter on him than it was when he was on juvenile probation.
GRACE: Like what? WHAT can I expect, Sheriff Anderson?
ANDERSON: I`m sorry? What can you expect?
GRACE: What can we expect on adult probation for him?
ANDERSON: You know, they can put a monitor on him, that`s like they have his mom to monitor his whereabouts 24 hours a day. They can put an alcohol
detector on him if he drinks any alcohol. They can be noted, they can have him check in with his probation officer much more frequently. They can, you
know, put a lot of restrictions on him that weren`t on him as a juvenile.
GRACE: He`ll still be free. Sheriff Anderson, I don`t expect you to comment on this because that would be, probably not appropriate for you, but I got
to tell you, Sheriff, it just burns me up.
Sheryl McCollum, this guy, first of all goes into Wal-Mart, I think it was Wal-Mart, and steals booze. All right? Then they all get drunk and high and
mows down four people on the side of the road, changing a tire, then lies about it when he gets pulled over. He`s got the (inaudible) all these four
people are dead -- dead and buried. And, max, he`s going to get 125 days? Sheryl, that`s just not right.
MCCOLLUM: It`s not right, Nancy, but I think we are worried about the wrong setting (ph). I can`t even rent these "Sweatin` of the Oldies" and there`s
nothing we can do about that now. This is a judicial problem. (Inaudible) them originally for the harshest possible sentence.
GRACE: You know, Robyn Walensky, it`s not just rubbing me the wrong way. That this guy is going to be dancing to the oldies like he was "Sweatin` to
the Oldies" and having Blue Bell Ice Cream Sundaes behind bars. That`s just wrong.
WALENSKY: Nancy, you`re correct, but let me tell you. The people here in Texas, this is all people talk about. People are just disgusted that he has
literally gotten away with murder and that he`s going to max out at 125 days, four months. That`s it? A little slap on the wrist? I mean, it is the
most disturbing case that I have covered in a very long time.
GRACE: And the other thing - oh, everybody, that`s Time Life Entertainment, YouTube, Richard Simmons, "Super Sweatin` Party Off The Pounds". This is
what `affluenza teen` is doing right now in between ice cream sundaes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
You know, with me is Dr. Lee Norman, Chief Medical Officer at University of Kansas Hospital. Dr. Norman, thank you for being with us.
I`m trying to understand ...
LEE NORMAN, UNIVERSITY OF KANSAS HOSPITAL CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER: Nancy.
GRACE: ... how the fifth victim is permanently paralyzed. They can see but he can`t move, he can`t eat. How did that happen and why is an injury like
that irreversible?
[20:40:00] NORMAN: Well, it could be from a variety of reasons. The brain can swell and have irreversible damage to the brain itself.
It can also be because of severing the brain from the spinal cord and disconnecting the arms and legs. But it`s what we call locked-in when a
person has their ability to think but they can`t communicate. It`s just an awful situation.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:45:00] GRACE: A 13-year-old schoolgirl vanishes from home. Focus on two Virginia Tech University superstars engineering majors, a track star, a
NASA intern. Evidence this was no spur of the moment killing. The V-Tech students planning the murder up to three weeks.
The explosive motive for murdering a 7th grade girl revealed. Did the schoolgirl unwittingly reveal her so-called boyfriend? Breaking right now,
the female suspect laughing out loud in court, demanding a gluten-free diet behind bars and a hypoallergenic mattress. And another bombshell tonight,
did the female V-Techer actually planned the whole thing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators were able to track the last messages on Lovell`s phone to Eisenhauer. He watched her climb out of her bedroom
window and gave her a side hug, prosecutors say, then left to go to Keepers` dorm. Keepers told investigator she saw him kill Lovell and put
her in his Lexus.
Straight out Justin Jouvenal, Education reporter with "The Washington Post." Justin, thank you for being with us. Also with us, Martin Savidge,
CNN Correspondent on the story.
Justin Jouvenal, so the girl actually laughs out loud in the courtroom, and her camp apparently demanding a gluten-free diet behind bars and a
hypoallergenic pillow?
JUSTIN JOUVENAL, "THE WASHINGTON POST" REPORTER: That`s all correct. Nicole Keepers -- Natalie Keepers was rather somber throughout the whole hearing.
But at one point, her attorney mentioned that she likes Swedish fish and that she was a member of the Disney Princess Club.
AT that point, she burst out laughing in the middle of the courtroom which is strange for anyone accused in a killing.
Martin Savidge, CNN Correspondent on the story. Martin, what more are we learning? I understand the two actually planned the little girl`s murder
over fast food at a place called "Cook Out"?
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. They`re merely sitting down, having burgers, and casually and coolly talking about how they are going to
murder a 13-year-old child.
And they even get into the very gruesome details of slitting her throat saying that would be the best way to do it. They also decide to then go for
a drive, case the young girl`s house and, oh, while they`re out there, they might as well go and check out where actually the murder is going to take
place. It`s hard to imagine anyone being more cold in that way.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Misty Marris, New York; Andell Brown, Miami. Andell, that overt act which is required in any conspiracy prosecution,
there you have it. You got her, the woman, the NASA intern, going and casing out the girl`s home before the murder. That takes her out of the
"just talk" and into an overt act which makes this prosecutable.
ANDELL BROWN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, there is a reason they charged her with accessory before the fact, but you also have to look at the fact that
this young lady has been receiving mental health treatment since she was in middle school. She`s been suicidal. She was being treated at that time by
the doctor at Virginia Tech for the problems that she was having adjusting, and she was on medication ...
GRACE: Andell ...
BROWN: ... so her mental state ...
GRACE: ... let me just ...
BROWN: ... is going to be a big issue.
GRACE: ... clarify, the only medication she was or is on, the only one is an anti-anxiety pill for being anxious, OK? Now, I`, going to let you put
that in your pipe and smoke it for a few moment because I`m being joined right now by a special guest out of Christiansburg, Virginia. It`s Alex
Malycke, a running colleague of defendant David Eisenhauer`s.
Alex, thank you for being with us.
ALEX MALYCKE, DAVID EISENHAUER`S RUNNING COLLEAGUE: Hey, thank you.
GRACE: What struck me as very odd about what you`re telling us is that, not odd that you`re saying it, odd that if it happened it`s very peculiar that
you went running often with defendant David Eisenhauer, and ...
MALYCKE: Right.
GRACE: ... that a couple of times you would be on a long run and you`d stop at the Student Union or you`d stop for water, and every time you`d stop,
there she`d be. Natalie Keepers.
Describe to me what happened.
MALYCKE: It was an off weekend and we agreed to go over there on September 30th. And I met David at War Memorial Hall, it`s a gym. We stretched out,
we ran seven laps around the gym field and when we came back, Natalie appeared.
And then so he said, well, let`s keep running. And then so we did three more laps around the entire campus, it totaled 11 miles, took 74 minutes,
and then she was there again.
And then, so after we cleaned up we went over and had dinner at this Owens Food Court and she appeared again. And then that was strange. And then I
gotten up. I said, well, thanks for hosting me and then (inaudible) wanted a book and went to the university bookstore and got him a dark chocolate
Hershey bar and, I`ll be damned, there she was again.
So at this point I said were you telling her where we`re going? He goes, no, not at all. And I said well, this is really odd. And we couldn`t figure
out how, you know, she kept popping up. To me, it scared the crap out of me. Shucks.
[20:50:00] GRACE: I believe you say that you said something like, man, you`re going to have to get a restraining order against this one.
MALYCKE: Oh, I was joking. I said, yeah, well, I sort of suggested, you know, why don`t you file a protective order and, you know, he was too
classy to do it but in the end, I think maybe that would have been a good idea.
GRACE: But in your mind that was just a joke, right?
MALYCKE: Well, half a joke. The other half, it was like, well, she seems to keep knowing where we`re at and this is getting a little scary. So, I
didn`t bother to stay the night. I went right back to Martinsville that night.
GRACE: Alex Malycke with me, running colleague of defendant David Eisenhauer. Did you tell police about this?
MALYCKE: No, I didn`t tell them that part, no.
GRACE: Why?
MALYCKE: Just a little bit of a distrust with them.
GRACE: You know, back to special guests joining us, Martin Savidge with us and Justin Jouvenal. Justin, you know, I`m thinking about what Alex Malycke
is saying. What do you make of that?
JOUVENAL: Well, it`s interesting information that hasn`t come to light before. It`s hard to fathom why Natalie Keepers would go along with
killing, you know, this 7th grade girl. It`s hard to figure out the relationship between her and David Eisenhauer, so it`s an interesting
perspective on it.
GRACE: And to Martin Savidge, CNN correspondent. Martin, with all of this information that we are learning that they actually, as you just reported,
planned this over a fast food meal. That was a long time -- that was plenty of time before the girl was killed for this to be premeditated murder.
I`m not quite sure why Natalie Keepers hasn`t been charged with a murder. It shows that she helps plan the murder, helps plan the disposal of the
body, goes to buy the cleanup equipment and the shovel, why isn`t she charged with the murder itself?
SAVIDGE: Right. It seems to make perfect sense that she would be charged with the murder because the authorities say she was up to her neck in the
planning of all of this. Maybe. That`s still to come. Or maybe they are holding out that she could turn as a state`s witness.
[20:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: One of America`s most hated moms, tot mom, Casey Anthony, alive and well, seen here in exclusive dailymail.com photos launching her own
photography business with backing from a renowned P.I. who helps clear her of murdering her 2-year-old tot, Caylee.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Free to do as she pleases, Casey Anthony goes digital with photography lessons.
CASEY ANTHONY, SUSPECT OF MURDERING HER 2-YEAR-OLD DAUGHTER: I`m just as much of a victim as the rest of you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would anyone buy the work of tot mom?
GRACE: Candace Trunzo, senior editor, daily mail.com, who gave us these photos. What a photo -- what, a photography business? And she`s being
backed by a wealthy P.I.?
CANDACE TRUNZO, DAILYMAIL.COM SENIOR EDITOR: Well, you know, Patrick McKenna, who is the P.I. who was, as you say, instrumental in getting her
off of the murder charges for her kid, also worked on the O.J. Simpson case, William Kennedy Smith, who was exonerated from rape in West Palm
Beach.
So he`s, you know, he`s a pretty well-known P.I. They were seen together. She was taking pictures, he was coaching her, and in fact, we`ve learned
that she is staying -- living at his home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Seth Meyers, I don`t quite understand it. Seth Meyers, Clinical Psychologist out of L.A. Why would people want tot mom to be their
photographer at, what, the christening of their baby? Family photos? Like they`re going to invite her into their home to take pictures? There`s a
picture I`ll never forget.
SETH MEYERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes. I mean, the idea of Casey Anthony starting any business is very, very brave. You know, I don`t think that
anybody really would trust her, especially upon just meeting her.
You know, the way that she behaved after everything happened really showed such poor judgment, the partying, the dancing on tables. So no, people
won`t trust her.
GRACE: So what does it mean, Candace Trunzo, dailymail.com? She`s now launched her own business and is actually getting clients or no?
TRUNZO: Well, no. She has no clients yet. And you know, it`s very possible, Nancy, that her -- this photo business that she has may involve P.I. work,
you know ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Wait a minute, there`s a good photo, Candace Trunzo. That`s what she bought, beer and push-up bras while her daughter`s body was missing. That`s
a video I`ll never forget. Does she have a web site, Candace?
TRUNZO: She put something up on Facebook, but there are no photos up there. She may have taken it down because people who saw her business application
put it up with all kinds of had nasty comments, who would want this woman to take pictures of my child or my child`s birthday? So, there`s a lot of
backlash about this. We`ll see how she does.
GRACE: Candace Trunzo.
Let`s remember, American hero, Oregon Sergeant Jason Goodding. Just 39, killed in the line of duty. Seaside police, 12 years, a Portland State
grad. Coached youth sports. Provided security at local outreach centers. Leaves behind a weeping widow and two daughters. Jason Goodding, American
hero.
And congratulations to South Carolina parents Karen and Andrew, in the birth of their baby boy, Andrew Hall, Jr. Look at this precious little
angel.
Thanks to our guests, but especially to you for being with us. Nancy Grace, signing off. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8 o`clock sharp, Eastern. And
until then, goodnight, friend.
[21:00:00]
END
