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Nancy Grace
Cruise Ship Steers Into Fierce Storm; Pediatric Dentist Arrested for Harming Children; Madonna`s Custody Battle Continues: Madonna Hires P.I. to Tail Son Rocco. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired February 09, 2016 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: Breaking news tonight. Right out of the Titanic, one of the world`s biggest and newest cruise ships, the Royal Caribbean
Anthem of the Seas, intentionally steers straight into 100-mile-per-hour hurricane-force winds, 40-foot waves, tilting so far over, passengers
actually saying their good-byes to loved ones.
Bombshell tonight. The captain under fire for steering this cruiser loaded with nearly 6,000 men, women, children straight into a cruise ship
nightmare, a life-threatening storm, a storm that was predicted.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They were hitting 30-feet marks.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thirty-foot waves, hurricane-force wind gusts that more than rocked one of the largest cruise ships ever built.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were tilting. We were going in 20-degree directions, 30-degree directions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Claims a well-respected pediatric dentist makes children scream in pain, under fire amidst claims he performs extremely painful dental
procedures on children without anesthetics, ties them down, arms and legs, on so-called papoose boards, disallows parents in the treatment rooms, and
he`s been doing it for decades, all allegedly to satisfy his, quote, "sadistic appetite." Photos show children with bruises, swollen lip,
unnecessarily removed teeth. We have the video.
And breaking now, that courtroom explodes as the so-called evil dentist demanding all charges be dropped. Then he pulls a no-show. What, is he`s
too afraid to face the angry moms in court?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Those are the screams of a 3-year-old boy in the hands of a dentist who some parents want to strangle.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now! Now!
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They choked me and they sat on me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Very unnecessary that he capped all 14 teeth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That`s CrimeWatchDaily.com.
Superstar icon Madonna`s custody battle over son Rocco explodes as Madonna`s ex, British movie director Guy Ritchie, lawyers up to take on
Madonna, son Rocco refusing to come home to Mommy, blocking her from Instagram. After the husband and son defy a judge`s order that Rocco come
back to Madonna in the U.S., in the last hours, we learn the pop star Madonna hires a private investigator in London to tail son Rocco. Is
Madonna dead set on proving ex-husband Guy Ritchie is a bad dad?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Madonna continues her fight to have her son, Rocco, return home, reports that the pop icon has hired a private investigator to
watch her son, Rocco, while he`s living with his dad, Guy Ritchie, in London.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That`s "Who`s That Girl" tour, Warner Reprise video (INAUDIBLE)
Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to Thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. Right out of the Titanic, one of the world`s biggest and newest cruise ships, the Royal Caribbean Anthem of the Seas,
intentionally steers straight into 100 mph (sic) hurricane-force winds -- 100-mile-an-hour winds, 40-foot waves tilting the cruise liner so far over,
passengers actually say their good-byes to their loved ones.
The captain now under fire tonight for steering a cruiser, a cruiser loaded with nearly 6,000 men, women, children aboard, straight into a cruise ship
nightmare, a life-threatening storm, and more important, a storm that was predicted. Taking 6,000 lives into your own hands?
Straight out to special guest joining us, Ray Caputo with WDBO. Ray, I don`t understand it.
RAY CAPUTO, WDBO: Well, Nancy, I don`t either. You know, one passenger said it looked like a scene out of the movie "The Perfect Storm" -- all
sorts of terrifying stories, 4,500 passengers on board. Guests were locked down in their rooms. They described glass breaking, chairs being thrown
about, one person tossed off their bed.
And you know, one report really stuck with me. There was a jacuzzi on the ship. And when the ship tilted, the water would spill over the side,
exposing the jacuzzi jet, and it would spray water into the air. I mean, it was just a big, terrifying mess.
[20:05:12]GRACE: What`s so disturbing is that this storm was predicted. They knew they were going straight into the eye of the storm, hurricane-
force gale winds, tides up to possibly over 40 feet tall, with the passengers actually saying good-bye to their loved ones and their own
lives.
With me right now, joining me from the Anthem of the Seas cruise ship, on board, Jacob Ibrag. Jacob, thank you for being with us.
JACOB IBRAG, CRUISE SHIP PASSENGER: Thank you for having me.
GRACE: You know, when I look at that tidal wave coming straight at the ship, I find it very difficult to believe the captain intentionally steered
right into it. What happened?
IBRAG: I mean, you know, we were listening to the captain earlier yesterday, actually, and he told us that they didn`t foresee the storm
system to be so huge. He said it was supposed to be something really manageable. And then (INAUDIBLE) one hour to two or three hour (ph), it
just became this huge perfect storm, if you will, this ridiculous Armageddon.
GRACE: Tell me what happened, Jacob Ibrag. You lived to tell the tale. What exactly was it like?
IBRAG: So it was scary, like you said, 100 miles an hour or it was almost 180 miles an hour. That`s how fast the winds were going. That`s how fast
we were getting hit. There was a disaster. We were seeing 30-degree tilts. I mean, we had things flying everywhere in the cabins.
I remember just taking that video, and that was only after I saw one of the workers clean up one of the tables. He drops everything and he starts
videotaping it himself. I knew something was wrong.
GRACE: Let me ask you, you just said 30-degree tilt? You mean the ship was that close down to the water?
IBRAG: Yes. Yes, it was. I totally believe it was. We were -- at certain points, I was holding onto the balcony handle just so I don`t fly
to the other side. Other points, I`m holding onto my bedframe for dear life just so I could have some sort of stability. Seeing my parents,
seeing my sister go through the same thing was -- was terrible.
GRACE: Seeing your sister go where?
IBRAG: Seeing my sister and my parents just trying to stabilize themselves, and just -- we`re just flinging everywhere. That was a really
terrible scene to see.
GRACE: Everyone with us is Jacob Ibrag, passenger on the Royal Caribbean cruise ship Anthem of the Seas. You`re seeing right now "Poseidon
Adventure" for 20th Century Fox. And you know, we`ve all known since this what can happen on a ship at sea -- devastation.
I want to go right now to Tom Sater, CNN meteorologist and weather anchor. Tom, thank you for being with us. You know, I watch you all the time. I
watch the Weather Channel all the time. And they`re always and you`re always telling me what is going to happen, and you`re almost always
correct.
So explain to me how a captain at the helm of a cruise ship like this -- and I recently went on a Disney cruise with the children, and we got to go
up into, as I call it, the cockpit. I know that`s not the right name. It`s incredibly sophisticated.
TOM SATER, CNN METEOROLOGIST: It is.
GRACE: They have all sorts of sonar, radar.
SATER: Right.
GRACE: It`s like you`re in a NASA satellite room. They know everything.
SATER: They do.
GRACE: How did he not know he was steering into hurricane-force winds?
SATER: Nancy, if there`s anybody who can find out, it`s going to be you because -- you know, this captain may not be able to speak because of an
investigation, but I`m sure your crack staff will find captains in the past. And you can ask them, Hey, listen, do you tell your executives
there`s a storm with hurricane-force winds that`s going to be square right in the middle of our route, and do they tell them to go anyway? I mean,
the bottom line, Nancy, is just that. It`s the bottom line, big business. It`s like moving cattle. Get them into that ship and move them out on
schedule because there`s another ship on the way.
When they left port, the weather was fine, but for days, this was forecast to produce not only hurricane-force winds, but again, looking at waves
easily possibly over 40 feet high. And they were stronger.
Here`s the route, leaving the port in New Jersey to Port Canaveral in Florida. And when you look at a buoy -- and this is the blue dot there,
Nancy -- we had gusts that were well over 60 and 70. Of course, the higher you get up -- and this is a 13-story-high, you know, ship -- they`re going
to get stronger.
At 7:00 PM, they were in hell. I mean, this is where the winds were picking up and getting to Category 2 strength hurricane status. And that`s
when the waves were picking up, even getting over 30.
Take a look at this. This is the forecast this captain got. I mean, these are big businesses and...
GRACE: Good gravy, 156 miles an hour!
SATER: Look at this!
GRACE: I mean...
[20:10:02]SATER: Right there.
GRACE: ... the passenger, Jacob Ibrag, told me it was up to 180 miles an hour...
SATER: Right.
GRACE: ... and you just said 13 stories listing over at past 30 degrees? That`s almost -- that`s right down on the water!
SATER: Nancy, look at this. This came out days in advance, or at least over 24 hours from the Ocean Prediction Center. It put the storm right,
smack in the square of their route. This forecast, also from the Ocean Prediction Center, told the captain and the cruise that expect hurricane-
force winds and those kind of waves.
Now, again, this is big business, and there`s a lot of similarities, Nancy, with the cargo ship El Faro. Remember, it tried to outrun Hurricane
Joaquin, God rest their souls since the ship`s at the bottom of the ocean right now. But this is a buoy. We knew that the gusts were going to be
strong, but that`s only 70. There were reports even over 150 in case. The waves for a good six-and-a-half hours were over 25 to 30 feet!
So I know you`ll get to the bottom of it, and I`m sure there`s an investigation.
GRACE: Well, you know what?
SATER: But one more thing. I don`t know why they turned around. They were closer to Port Canaveral. Did they just not want to fly everybody
back? I`m sure they...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: You know, I`m going to follow up with what you just said, Tom Sater. You said a captain would know. Well, I`ve got a captain. Joining
me out of Baltimore, Captain James Staples, Ocean River LLC maritime consultant, ship captain 23 years. Captain, thank you for being with us.
CAPT. JAMES STAPLES, SHIP CAPTAIN FOR 23 YEARS: My pleasure, Nancy.
GRACE: You`ve been a captain -- you were a captain 23 years, long before I imagine that they had all the sorts of bells and whistles they`ve got now.
Like, I was saying, I was in the front of that Disney Cruise Line and saw all of the sophisticated equipment, the radar, the sonar.
How could he not know he was heading into gale-force, hurricane-force winds?
STAPLES: Well, he knew he was going into some bad weather. Just how bad, he probably wasn`t sure. He had the latest forecast that everybody else
had, and that`s what you need to pay attention to.
As a master, you know that it`s only a prediction, it`s only a forecast. Those change. They can either change for the better or they can be even
made worse as time goes, depending on what the storm is doing. And that`s the unpredictability about weather. You just never really know 100 percent
what the weather`s going to do.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:16:33]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They were hitting 30-feet marks.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thirty-foot waves, hurricane-force wind gusts that more than rocked one of the largest cruise ships ever built.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were tilting. We were going in 20degree directions, 30-degree directions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Alina Machado, CNN correspondent. Alina, it`s almost unbelievable that a ship captain of this stature -- I mean, this is
one of the newest and the biggest cruise ships in the world -- would lead 6,000 on board into hurricane winds. I mean, if I had any idea that was
what was going to go on, I would never set foot on a cruise. I did not experience anything like this on a Disney cruise with the children. Like,
I`m going to put my children on a ship when I think this could happen?
And I hear Captain James Staples, I hear what Tom Sater is saying, but I also know that this captain had all that equipment in his cockpit and knew
exactly what lay ahead!
ALINA MACHADO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Nancy, we don`t know the details of what went into the decision-making process for this captain in terms of making
the decision to continue on the itinerary, to keep heading south despite the storm.
What Royal Caribbean is saying is that the wind speeds they encountered were much higher than what was forecast. I don`t know specifically what
the forecast was that they had, but we do know that the ship, as we heard, likely encountered wind gusts that were as strong as a hurricane -- we`re
talking about at least 74 miles per hour -- and waves of at least 30 feet high.
And these conditions went on for several hours. These passengers were on this ship, many of them were confined to their staterooms waiting for the
storm to pass. And they went through some truly terrifying experiences -- Nancy.
GRACE: Well, you know what? Alina Machado joining us, CNN correspondent. I`m just a JD, all right, but I saw "Titanic." Here it is from Paramount
Pictures. I saw "Poseidon Adventure." I know enough to know that you don`t mix a cruise ship with gale-force storm, winds up to 180 miles an
hour. That`s "Poseidon Adventure" from 20th Century Fox. And I know I`ve seen it, so I`m sure the captain of the Anthem has seen it.
You know, Tom Sater, Alina Machado brought up a good question. She said -- she was bringing up what was the forecast.
You`re saying "Perfect Storm" from Warner Bros pictures. And if you`ve seen that, you probably never want to get on a ship again.
But these 6,000 people entrusted their lives, their children`s lives to this captain, who intentionally went straight into a hurricane-force storm,
Tom Sater, CNN meteorologist. So what was the forecast?
SATER: The forecast called for an intense area of low pressure to produce hurricane-force winds, and the center of that storm, Nancy, was right in
their route. Listen, these are big companies. They have teams of meteorologist for a reason. If they don`t have them at a home base, they
hire forecast consultants that do this. And not just for cruise ships like Royal Caribbean company there, parent company, but for cargo ship
companies, as well.
They knew this was coming. So what it really appears to seem is that they`re gambling with an intensity of a storm or they`re gambling a
computer model and they push it...
GRACE: Gambling?
SATER: ... 40 or 50 more miles away.
GRACE: Did you say gambling, Sater, they`re gambling?
SATER: It`s what it sounds like. It`s what it sounds like.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Robin Ficker, Maryland, Troy Slaten, LA. Gambling? Gambling with my twins` lives? Gambling that maybe the storm
won`t be so bad? Did you hear Sater?
[20:20:09]I know you two are excellent trial lawyers. He`s the meteorologist, all right? You hear a sea captain on the show tonight
telling you that he knew a storm was coming, and Sater is saying they took a gamble the storm wouldn`t be too bad? I mean, they already knew 150 mph.
This passenger says it was 180-mile-an-hour winds, Robin Ficker.
ROBIN FICKER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Assumption of risk. Cam Newton was hit a lot harder in the Super Bowl that these...
GRACE: I don`t know what you`re talking about.
FICKER: ... cruise cryberries (ph) were watching during this storm.
GRACE: I don`t even know what you`re...
(CROSSTALK)
FICKER: They know there`s sharks in the water. They know there are fast- developing storms. They knew that this...
GRACE: Did you just compare this...
FICKER: ... could have happened.
GRACE: ... to somebody taking a hit in the Super Bowl?
FICKER: Why don`t they go to the ballet instead?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:25:30]UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thirty-foot waves and winds in excess of 100 miles per hour.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One passenger tells us that he saw people getting cut by flying glass.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Actually, as it turns out, it`s 40-plus-foot waves and winds of 180 miles an hour. The captain of one of the newest and the biggest cruise
ships in the world, the Royal Caribbean Anthem of the Seas, intentionally steers this cruise liner with 6,000 aboard into hurricane-force winds, the
ship listing so badly, people on the ship began saying good-bye to each other for good.
I want to know -- to you, Jacob Ibrag, joining us on the cruise ship right now, what were they telling you during all this? What was Royal Caribbean
saying? Was the captain telling you what was happening? Did you think you were going to have to get in one of those dinghies to save your life?
IBRAG: So at 3:40, the captain notified us we that had to be locked in the cabins so we don`t get hurt, you know, with the things that were falling
and falling apart, so we don`t trip on people to try to help other people, the crew.
The captain did try to notify us every single hour, as long (ph) as the cruise director, to let us know what was going on, where we were going, if
we were docking -- well, if we were basically anchoring anywhere, which we did for, like, three, four hours. He thought that was the safest thing,
where we just stayed put.
They did -- I think they did a great job in letting us know what was going on, to keep us a little bit calm, if that could even be possible.
GRACE: You are seeing "Perfect Storm" from Warner Bros Pictures.
And I cannot imagine after seeing this you would steer your cruise ship straight into hurricane-force winds.
Joining me also, Tom Sater, CNN meteorologist and weather anchor. You know, Tom, again, we`ve heard from a sea captain. We`ve heard from
somebody on board. But what it boils down to is hard evidence.
SATER: Yes.
GRACE: To Sater, you can look back and you can look ahead and know what the weather was. A farmer`s almanac will tell you what`s going to happen
next year. You compared this to a gamble, a gamble. It was predicted 150- mile wind. What`s a hurricane wind? How fast is a hurricane wind?
SATER: Well, listen, when you get gusts up to 150, that`s Category 2, Nancy.
Listen, I can understand an accidental engine fire. I can understand a loss of power and you drift for a couple of days, like we`ve seen with some
of these cruise ships in the last couple years. And those may not be avoidable. But this was.
The forecast came out well in advance. Hey, we have airlines that, you know, they ground everything. Let`s have a little bit of a stoppage. They
could have waited a few more hours just to watch the storm intensify.
Sure, the weather was fine when they departed. I`m not sure why they turned around to go back. They were closer to their destination. Let the
people just get off.
But this was seen in advance, and not just by one computer model, Nancy, by several. And I know they get this information. They all do. It just
seems like they gamble with the intensity.
[20:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: A well-respected pediatric dentist makes children scream in pain. He`s under fire amidst claims he performs extremely painful dental
procedures on children without anesthetics, ties them down, arms and legs on so-called Papoose boards, disallows parents into the treatment rooms,
and he`s been doing it for decades allegedly to satisfy his "sadistic appetite."
Photos showing little children with bruises, swollen lips, unnecessarily removed teeth, up to seven or eight pulled at a time. Breaking right now,
the courtroom explodes as the so-called evil dentist demanding all charges against him be dropped. Then he pulls a no-show in court. What? Is he too
afraid of all of the angry mothers in court?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GARCIA: She claimed she took her daughter to Schneider to have one tooth checked, but her daughter left the office with bruises, scratches and seven
pulled teeth.
Bri`el later told her mom she had been choked. She also had a goose egg on her forehead the size of golf ball.
GARCIA: How did you get that bump?
BRI`EL MOTLEY, VICTIM OF DR. HOWARD SCHNEIDER: He threw me on the ground.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That`s from crimewatchdaily.com. As we go to air, the hearing has just been in force, there in that courtroom where this dentist insists that
all charges against him be dropped.
I want you to prepare yourself for this video. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZION CHRISTOPHER, VICTIM OF DR. HOWARD SCHNEIDER: (CRYING). (SCREAMING)
[20:35:00] GRACE: Justin, you`ve got to get ...
CHRISTOPHER: (SCREAMING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: ... anymore. I can`t hear it any more. Chris Spargo, reporter with dailymail.com., that is exactly what I believe a jury should hear because I
have combed over this affidavits and all of these charges, and contrary to what this dentist has just claimed in a court of law in the last couple of
hours, he wants all these charges thrown out.
I want them enhanced. I want the district attorney there in Duval County to man up. To man up and go back to the grand jury and have these enhanced.
Because this isn`t enough.
This dentist, Chris Spargo, is only charged with fleecing the taxpayers out of $4 million. Yeah, that`s bad enough. But there`s no charge in here about
what he did to all of these children.
Now, tell me, Chris Spargo, dailymail.com, what leg does he have to stand on to ask the judge to throw out all the charges?
CHRIS SPARGO, DAILYMAIL.COM REPORTER: Now, he appeared in court today and they are trying to say that this information is so vague and that the
timeline is to indefinite that they don`t even know what incidents they`re talking about and they can`t properly prepare defense.
GRACE: Well, I`m looking right at it, provided Medicaid fraud, violating all of these code statutes and it`s up to $4 million. As a matter of fact,
Justin, do you have the video of where this dentist has moved to?
He has moved to St. Simons Island, it`s a beachside property and it`s a stone`s throw away from the millionaire`s club. The millionaire`s club
where mansions were built by Rockefeller, Getty, Pulitzer. There you go. There you go. That`s where he`s living, not too far from this.
After what he did to those children, he needs to have a (inaudible) three. That`s where he needs to be, behind bars. Not by millionaire`s row.
Okay, Chris Spargo, dailymail.com., did you just tell me he was in court? Because I don`t think he showed up in court. Was he in court, Chris?
SPARGO: No, he didn`t. Today, he did not show up at all. And it`s a good thing not, because a lot of other people did, some angry mothers did.
GRACE: I guess he`s too afraid to face angry mothers like these.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... gonna choke another kid, (BEEP).
LATOSHA BEVEL-HILLSMAN, DR. SCHNEIDER`S DENTAL ASSISTANT: Ma`am, Ma`am. Ma`am, Ma`am, Ma`am, Ma`am, Ma`am, Ma`am.
(CROSSTALK)
HILLSMAN: Ma`am, Ma`am. Ma`am, Ma`am, Ma`am, Ma`am, Ma`am, Ma`am.
(CROSSTALK)
HOWARD SCHNEIDER, PEDIATRIC DENTIST ACCUSED OF TORTURING CHILDREN: Let go of me!
HILLSMAN: Ma`am, Ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I ain`t scared.
HILLSMAN: Ma`am, Ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What? What? What? What? Call the police. I already got them waiting for me. I am the police.
HILLSMAN: Come on now, come on now, come on now. You don`t want to go to jail for that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am the police.
HILLSMAN: You don`t wanna go to jail for that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m not gonna got o jail for it.
GRACE: The dental hygienist is telling the mom `you don`t want to go to jail for attacking him,` but uh-uh. N-O. Ana Garcia, correspondent with
Crime Watch Daily and Michael Christian with us.
Michael Christian, isn`t it true that at this hour, a female defendant is emerging, the hitch person to the evil dentist? She stood by and let all of
this happen? What do we know about her?
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: That`s right. Her name is LaTosha Bevel-Hillsman. She`s 39 years old. She was a dental assistant and she has
also been arrested and charged with Medicaid fraud, practicing dentistry without a license and child abuse. And apparently, the child abuse charge
came from hurting a child during a tooth extraction.
GRACE: OK. Dr. Mark Snyder is with us. He`s a renowned forensic dentist. Those are hard to come by.
Dr. Snyder, did you hear that? Now, we`ve talked about this before. I felt that you were a little bit on the fence when we talked about Papoosing
children, which means tying them down, hand and foot, during this procedure.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
You know, let`s unleash the lawyers, Robin Thicker and Troy Slaten.
Troy Slaten, when you have to tie a child down on a Papoose and then you get charged with child abuse, something is very wrong with that picture.
Why is she charged with the child abuse? She`s working for him.
TROY SLATEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, looks like she is alleged to have done something bad herself. It`s alleged she was practicing dentistry without a
license. But as far as tying somebody down ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Talking about the abuse ...
SLATEN: ... that is very well be -- that may be for the safety of the child so that way they don`t interfere with the procedure when there`s drills and
needles and things put their mouth.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Interfere with the procedure. OK, you know what?
SLATEN: Absolutely. That could very well be for the safety of the child.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Did you hear that, Dr. Snyder? Did you hear that? A dental assistant to this so-called evil dentist has now been charged with child abuse. Not
practicing without a license, that`s not what I`m talk about. Child abuse, Dr. Snyder.
[20:40:00] MARK SNYDER, FORENSIC DENTIST: Look, Nancy, there are prescribed ways to handle these kinds of situations. A well-trained staff knows how to
deal with an uncontrolled or a flailing child or a special needs individual in order to restrain them or provide protective stabilization so that the
medically necessary treatments can be accomplished.
It`s for -- not only the protection of the child but also protection of the dentist and the staff.
GRACE: Well I tell you what, I hear you talking about protection of the child, but somehow that and child abuse charges now leveled against his
dental assistant? That doesn`t seem to jive with me. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GARCIA: Do you say the dentist punched you?
THOMAS DANESE, VICTIM OF DR. HOWARD SCHNEIDER: Yeah.
GARCIA: Susan Danese says Thomas was severely traumatized by being restrained in something called a Papoose board. Thomas panicked, especially
when Schneider sprayed water in his mouth.
DANESE: He tried to drown me.
GARCIA: What were you scared of?
DANESE: He was going to hurt me. He punched me on the shoulder and I didn`t like it.
GRACE: That`s from crimewatchdaily.com.
[20:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTOPHER: (CRYING). (SCREAMING)
GARCIA: Those are the screams of a 3-year-old boy in the hands of a dentist who, some parents want to strangle.
SCHNEIDER: Let go of me!
HILLSMAN: Ma`am, Ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I ain`t scared.
MOTLEY: They choked me and they sat on me.
SHERRAINE CHRISTOPHER, ZION`S MOTHER: Very unnecessary that he capped all 14 teeth.
CHRISTOPHER: (SCREAMING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That`s from crimewatchdaily.com. For those of you just joining us, this doctor, Dr. Schneider`s case has just been in court where the defense
insisted that all charges against him be thrown out.
Ana Garcia, correspondent, Crime Watch Daily, when you hear what these children say and then try to jive that with the fact there`s no charges for
child abuse in this complaint but there are against his dental assistant, a female, why?
ANA GARCIA, CRIME WATCH DAILY CORRESPONDENT: Nancy, the entire system, the state of Florida has failed these children. This has been going on for
decades. Those are the allegations against this dentist.
And you`re going to tell me now, now, now they`re finally paying attention to what these mothers and these children have been screaming about for
decades?
We found a case, Nancy, from 20 years ago, a civil case arguing the same thing, that the doctor pulled out teeth unnecessarily, disfigured the face
of a 5-year-old.
So, you`re going to tell me that no one in the state of Florida knew what was going on when these parents tell us that they complained?
GRACE: Joining me now, Dr. William Morrone, renowned forensic pathologist, medical examiner and toxicologist. Dr. Morrone, I am stunned. Every time
the twins who are now 8, as you know I`ve discussed, go to the dentist? I go back there. I don`t even ask, `can I come back?` I going back there. I`m
going to watch my children. I mean, what do you make of this?
WILLIAM MORRONE, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Proper parental support has to be in the room. But the fact that he did this while these kids were awake and
tied down is criminal. We have ways, in my rural practice, doctors, dentists send me 2-, 3- and 4-year-olds that need extensive work, and I
give them clearance to be put under anesthesia at a hospital so all this work can be done when the kids are asleep.
And when those kids are asleep, they don`t feel any pain, the parents can be in a waiting room, in recovery, and nobody is at risk. This -- all this
tying kids down, sitting on them, this is just crazy. This is child abuse. We have ways to deal with this.
GRACE: You know, Dr. Morrone, could you just explain to me, I know what it is, layperson. But what does it mean to give a child or a person laughing
gas? Why can they do that? What is laughing gas?
MORRONE: Well, nitrous oxide goes in the brain and it allows you to relax and you`re uninhibited. But the problem with nitrous oxide is it still
requires that you`re numb because nitrous oxide, laughing gas, is not there to control pain. And if they were subdued with nitrous oxide but still not
given anesthesia, these children suffered.
GRACE: Back to you, Chris Spargo, reporter, dailymail.com. So the hearing has just gone down and the defense is arguing the claims are vague.
I still say the district attorney needs to enhance the indictment. Go back, redo the information, the indictment, so to speak and add specific claims.
I mean, Chris Spargo, these claims, the statute of limitation has not run on these children. What are some of the most disturbing claims, Chris
Spargo?
SPARGO: I mean, they`re all just horrible. But this lawsuit that was filed last week, you had one child who had epilepsy, who was tied to a Papoose
for it completely restrained and actually fell off, hurt her head. The parent wasn`t allowed back. When they got back there, they said there was
blood everywhere and they took unnecessary teeth.
GRACE: You know, also Ana Garcia with Crime Watch Daily, one mom went back, found her daughter covered in blood, the room covered in blood spatter and
blood smears. That`s not supposed to happen at a dentist, much less a pediatric dentist. That`s what happens in surgery.
[20:50:00] GARCIA: Exactly. Absolutely. And the other thing, you know, we`ve been talking about like, why? Why did this go on for so long?
Well, when that mom got back into her car with her daughter, and they pulled the gauze out, that`s when the daughter said to the mom, "Mommy they
were lying to you. Here is what really happened to me."
So there are allegations that the dentist was threatening the parents and the children.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you tired of this?
SCHNEIDER: I`m pissed off about it. I`d be very honest with you. I am very pissed off about it. I hope you don`t publish that like that. I really am
because this is enough.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think it`s untrue? All these allegations?
SCHNEIDER: I don`t know who is after me and I don`t need another one.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was here and I spoke to you yesterday, Dr. Schneider. It`s just that ...
(CROSSTALK)
SCHNEIDER: I`m just getting really pissed. I`m gonna go get an attorney tomorrow.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you know who you`re hiring at this point?
SCHNEIDER: I do not know, but I don`t want to make any more statements. Look, I mean, really, I`m not ...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
SCHNEIDER: I`m not trying to be rude.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We understand. You`ve had a lot going on. We don`t think you`re rude.
SCHNEIDER: I mean, I am -- well, you think I`m bad?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s not what my position to think, that`s what other people are saying.
SCHNEIDER: Yeah, well I`m getting sick of it. I am getting really sick of it and I`m going to go to an attorney. I`m not going to talk any more.
Sorry.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you Mr. Schneider.
[20:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Superstar icon Madonna`s custody battle over son Rocco explodes as Madonna`s ex, the British movie director, Guy Ritchie, lawyers up to take
on Madonna.
Her son, Rocco, refusing to come home to mommy, blocking her from his Instagram after husband and son defy a judge`s order that Rocco come back
to Madonna in the U.S.
In the last hours, we learned that Pop Star, Madonna, hires a private investigator in London to tail son Rocco. Is Madonna dead set on proving
her ex-husband, Guy Ritchie is a bad dad?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pop superstar Madonna wants her son back. He left her while on tour to live with his father, director Guy Ritchie. Now, Madonna
wants to know what her son is doing in London, reportedly hiring a P.I. to follow her son and report back to her.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That`s "Who`s That Girl? Tour" from Warner Bros. video, Insider (ph). You know, Alan Duke, Editor-in-Chief leadstories.com, it`s okay when
mommy is out breaking her back to bank roll the whole kitten caboodle. That`s okay when she`s on tour doing that, right?
But now, when she`s on tour, some people, Alan Duke, attack her for being an absentee mom.
ALAN DUKE, LEADSTORIES.COM EDITOR-IN-CHIEF: No, she`s been to 46 ...
GRACE: Yes, she ...
DUKE: ... cities in the last five months.
GRACE: So?
DUKE: And she`s got another nine to go before she`s back home in New York. Her son, 15, why does he want to do that? And you know, every other day he
wakes up in a different country. He wants stability to be with his dad.
GRACE: I will tell you something, Alan Duke. I`ve done 46 shows, 46 night programs in the last couple of months. OK? And I have two children. And I
don`t really like it very much when people suggest a working mom is bad because she works, and let me tell you another thing, that`s "Who`s That
Girl? Tour," from Warner Bros. video, Insider (ph)
Let me tell you another thing, Alan Duke, while we`re on it, there is word on the street that son Rocco is laying out of school, that he is not back
in school, that Guy Ritchie is "tutoring" him, homeschooling him, that he has been spotted smoking and laid around at skateboard parks all day long
when he`s supposed to be in school. What about that, Duke?
DUKE: My guess - my guess is he was smoking cigarettes when he was on tour traveling the world on the ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Is that your guess?
DUKE: ... "Rebel Heart Tour" with his mom.
(CROSSYALK)
GRACE: Really?
(CROSSTALK)
DUKE: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Do you have anything to support that?
(CROSSTALK)
DUKE: The reason ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... or is that just your guess?
(CROSSTALK)
DUKE: ... his mother hired a private investigator is she probably thinks he`s like her. The apple doesn`t fall too far from the tree. So she`s
suspecting he`s doing ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: I think not.
DUKE: ... something bad because that`s what she when she was 15.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Put him up. Alan Duke ...
DUKE: Yes?
GRACE: Are you clairvoyant? Can you figure out ...
(CROSSTALK)
DUKE: No, but ...
GRACE: ... what`s in Madonna`s head? Because I can`t.
DUKE: It`s pretty obvious. She ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: No. I don`t like what you`re saying.
(CROSSTALK)
DUKES: ... you know, parents expect their child to be like them.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Terry Lyles, psychologist, author of "Cracking the Stress Code," why does everybody pile on, on the woman? It`s always the woman`s fault.
She`s a working mom like every other mom. You think she wants to be away from home while this battle is raging? He`s out smoking, laying out of
school. What? Guy Ritchie is going to tutor him for his standardized test coming up?
TERRY LYLES, PSYCHOLOGIST: Yeah. I mean, this is the classic, you know, he said, she said and, you know, a divorce suit is always ugly but, you know,
people of this power, stature, financial means.
I mean, at the end of the day I`m always thinking about the student, the young person. What is he going through in the midst of this back and forth
and his life is one most affected and who is advocating for him in the midst of this?
Let`s remember, American hero, Army Corporal Robert Christopher Pope, II, 22, East Islip, New York. Bronze Star, Purple Heart. Loved "The Giants" and
"The Jets" football with his dad. Doting over his little sister with cerebral palsy. Parents, Robert, Sr. and Regina. Brother, Ryan; sister,
Kaitlyn. Widow, Lynnea. Son, Dylan. Robert Christopher Pope, II, American hero.
And special goodnight from South Carolina friends, Char (ph) and Charnica (ph), aren`t they beautiful?
Thanks to our guests but especially you for being with us. Nancy Grace, signing off. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8 o`clock sharp, Eastern. And
until then, good night, friend.
[21:00:00]
END
