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Nancy Grace
400-Pound Man Crushes Wife`s Twin Sister to Death; Caught on Video: Man Punches 3-Year-Old; Will Adnan Syed Win Retrial?; Florida Man Throws Gator Through Drive-Thru Window. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired February 10, 2016 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: Breaking news tonight. Police say a loving 400- pound husband is anything but, that he murders his own wife`s twin sister. Bombshell tonight. The husband, the loving husband, insists he
accidentally suffocates his wife`s twin during sex.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Twenty-year-old Alyssa Haden was found dead noontime in her Pleasant Street apartment. Haden had a small wound on her neck, and
investigators say her body had been moved. Twenty-four hours later, Alyssa Haden`s brother-in-law is charged...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It didn`t matter what you were feeling. She made you smile...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And will this man, smiling and waving in court, the man convicted in the brutal murder of a high school girl, Hae Lee, actually walk free,
thanks to a female journalist who catapults to fame herself with a podcast called "Serial" that brings the murder back to the forefront, reexploring
evidence that convicted Syed?
But the victim`s family says the whole nightmare reopens painful wounds, quote, "no one can imagine." And they are now forced to relive the
gruesome murder of their daughter, Hae, a high school senior lacrosse and field hockey star at the time that she was murdered, her body left in a
shallow grave.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is "Serial," the most talked about podcast. The man at the heart of it -- he was convicted of murder in the death of his
ex-girlfriend, Hae Min Lee.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would rather someone say, No, I think you`re a jerk, you`re selfish. You should just stay in there for the rest of your life
except that I looked at your case, and it looks, you know, like, a little off.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That`s from podcast "Serial," produced by WBEZ, Chicago.
Shocking, damming video of a California man punching a toddler boy in the face at a mini-mart. But tonight, is the same man suspected in a hate
crime? We have the video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s a video that`s gained national attention overnight, a little boy getting hit in the face by an older man, 23-year-
old Justin Wittington (ph), and then yanked off the floor by his arm. You can see the boy hysterically crying when a woman walks up and takes the boy
outside.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: A prank? A Florida man throws a snapping gator into Wendy`s drivethrough. But when terrified employees called 911, he claims it was a
prank.
Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. Police say a loving 400-pound husband is anything but loving. They say he murders his own wife`s twin sister. OK, work that out
in your head, his own wife`s twin sister. P.S., his wife is in the hospital pregnant, and they have a 14-month-old baby at home. But the man
insists he accidentally suffocates his wife`s twin sister during rough sex.
OK, I`m getting a little tired of the rough sex defense. But straight out to Lindsay Corcoran reporter with Masslive.com. Lindsay, let`s look at the
evidence as we know it first. First of all, where was the victim, Alyssa Haden, just 20 years old -- where was -- look at him smiling and laughing
in court. That`s not a good look for a guy that`s suspected of murder.
Lindsay, where was Alyssa`s body found?
LINDSAY CORCORAN, REPORTER, MASSLIVE.COM (via telephone): Alyssa`s body was found in her own bed in her apartment in Spencer.
GRACE: So she`s found dead in her own bed. And do we know the position she was in, Lindsay?
CORCORAN: Well, pictures shown in court show that she was found on her back with the sheets over her. But she had been redressed.
GRACE: To Tammy Rose, investigative reporter joining us along with Lindsay Corcoran. Tammy, let me understand what Lindsay is telling me. Was the
victim, Alyssa Haden, found in her own bed, fully dressed with the sheets pulled up over her? Because that doesn`t make sense to me. Why would you
be in bed fully dressed under the covers?
TAMMY ROSE, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: It doesn`t make any sense. But police say that her brother found her inside her home, Spencer home in
Massachusetts, that she was fully dressed with the sheet covers over her head. Doesn`t make any sense. Doesn`t add up.
GRACE: You know, Tammy, another question. With her being in her own bed, what was the cause of death. Was she stabbed? Was she shot? What was the
cause of death?
ROSE: She died from asphyxia caused by compression to her neck, chest and face. So she basically suffocated to death.
[20:05:06]GRACE: OK, I want to go to Dr. Ken Redcross, board-certified internal medicine an concierge doctor, Dr. Recross joining us out of New
York. Thank you for being with us. Let me understand what Lindsay and Tammy are telling me.
For those of you just joining us, a so-called loving husband is now the focus of an investigation in the death of his pregnant wife`s twin sister.
He says it was all an accident during rough sex.
So Ken Redcross, Dr. Redcross, what does that mean, that you`re asphyxiated, which typically means you`re strangled, be it manual or
ligature. But this, as Tammy Rose just said, was by compression? What does that mean?
DR. KEN REDCROSS, BOARD-CERTIFIED INTERNAL MEDICINE: Yes, that`s exactly the process. When you suffocate, it can lead to asphyxia, which for
everyone out there, it`s pretty much there`s no oxygen going to the brain. So obviously, it`s a deadly syndrome. And it can only take 4 to 5 minutes
for this to happen and, unfortunately, result in death, as we see here, potentially.
GRACE: OK, you`re seeing shots of the twin sisters together. There they are. Alyssa Haden is the victim. It`s hard to even tell them apart. Look
at them. This is them in high school. They did everything together, loved each other immensely.
Now, Matt Zarrell, isn`t it true that Alyssa Haden, the murder victim -- someone broke into her apartment before she was killed. They got her
bikini swimsuit bottom, the bottom to her bikini, and wrote weird, perverted things in her bikini bottom?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Yes, this was just a few months before her death that someone had broken into her apartment.
They vandalized her property, and they wrote these obscene messages with a black marker on several items, including her bikini bottoms. and the
prosecution immediately did handwriting analysis to see if they could figure out where the writings came from.
GRACE: Let me ask you this, Matt. Were the writings on the crotch of the victim`s bikini bottoms -- was that handwriting consistent with Steven
West, the husband?
ZARRELL: Yes, it was.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Randy Kessler joining us, defense attorney out of Atlanta, Mike Gottlieb, defense attorney out of Ft. Lauderdale.
Welcome, gentlemen.
First to you, Kessler. So you`ve the 400-pound husband. You`ve the wife`s twin sister -- I`m going to let that soak in for a moment -- found dead in
her bed, fully clothed, and the police could tell that she had been staged, her body has been redressed postmortem. What I mean by that, the body had
been nude or partially nude at the time of death and then redressed postmortem.
Who, Randy Kessler, other than someone that knew the victim would have bothered to redress her? That is not a random act, Randy Kessler.
RANDY KESSLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No, it`s not. And I don`t think the issue here is who did it. I think the question is, was it an accident or
not? There`s not -- look, we do a lot of divorce work. People are attracted to the same types of people. He married someone who looked just
liked her, so he was obviously attracted to that body type...
GRACE: Yes, that same woman is laid up in the hospital pregnant with his child...
KESSLER: Right.
GRACE: ... and they`ve got a 14-month-old tot at home.
KESSLER: Yes, but you know, twins think alike and twins have the same tastes, so it`s not inconceivable that her twin sister also was attracted
to the same kind of guy that her sister was. A romantic relationship is not...
GRACE: Wait, wait, wait. Let me understand what you`re saying.
KESSLER: You got it.
GRACE: So you`re saying that the twin sister, the dead girl, Alyssa Haden -- I want to see Kessler, please. I want to make sure he`s got a straight
face. Yes, he does, apparently.
You`re telling me the dead girl was so attracted to her sister`s 400-pound husband...
KESSLER: I don`t know...
GRACE: ... let me finish my thought, please -- so attracted to her twin sister`s 400-pound husband that she agreed to rough sex with him while her
sister is laid up in the hospital pregnant with his baby. Did I understand that theory correctly?
KESSLER: Look, I don`t want to attack the victim. I said it`s not inconceivable that...
GRACE: Is that what you said?
KESSLER: No, I said it`s not inconceivable that they had a relationship. That`s what I said. I didn`t say that she did it while her sister was laid
up in the hospital. If she was having a relationship with him...
GRACE: But it did happen. It did happen while the sister`s in the hospital.
KESSLER: Right, it did, but I`m not going to...
GRACE: So let`s carry your thought all the way through because that`s what you`re arguing right now.
KESSLER: I`m arguing that it`s possible that they had a relationship and that it went too far and that he suffocated her by being on top of her. I
mean, that is definitely possible with a guy that weighs that much.
GRACE: I know, but I mean, maybe I`m not -- let me rephrase my question, Gottlieb. If I follow through with Randy Kessler`s theory, the theory that
they`re twins, they probably have similar likes and dislikes -- so the dead twin sister under his theory is also attractive to her sister`s husband,
who is in the hospital with a baby. And she`s so attracted to her 400- pound brother-in-law that she has sex with him and then dies during it.
[20:10:07]Does that theory make sense to you, Mike Gottlieb?
MIKE GOTTLIEB, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, it absolutely makes sense. I mean, first of all, as he said, they might have the same tastes. It`s not
inconceivable. We know from a former lover of hers that she likes to have...
GRACE: You guys...
GOTTLIEB: ... rough sex.
GRACE: I`m calling both of you out right now because I think...
KESSLER: OK.
GRACE: ... you`ve been watching too much soft-core porn, the whole fantasy...
KESSLER: No!
GRACE: ... of twin sisters and one man.
GOTTLIEB: Not at all.
GRACE: Yes, that`s not working on me. Let`s get back to the facts.
Matt Zarrell, what can you tell me about the back story here? Am I correct the wife is in the hospital, the sister had just moved in with them. She
has no idea who broke into her apartment and wrote on her bikini bottoms. What`s in the background? What`s lurking in the background, Matt?
ZARRELL: Well, one thing that`s lurking in the background is that we know from the wife, the pregnant wife who was in the hospital, that the sister,
the victim, was repulsed by Steven West. She could not even stand to look at him. She would tell her sister that West did not smell very good, that
he was heavy, that he had poor hygiene. She did not want to have any relationship with him, from everything that we understand.
GRACE: Randy Kessler, Mike Gottlieb -- unleash the lawyers. So Randy Kessler, there goes your theory...
KESSLER: No.
GRACE: ... that the woman`s twin sister was attracted to her brother-in- law. She -- the sister says she was repulsed by him.
KESSLER: You know, a lot of people would say that. A lot of people have different feelings behind closed doors than they say publicly. Who would
want to admit that they`re attracted to somebody like that? Not a lot of people. But you never know what people`s idiosyncracies are. We`ve seen a
lot worse. We have seen a lot worse.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We heard a glass breaking, so we all looked outside. And they punched a whole through the door, I think, because he was very
upset. And he saw guy coming out, running out, and then he was just very upset. He was crying. He was, like, on his hands and knees, like,
punching things. (INAUDIBLE) see that he just saw something, like, really tragic.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:15:52]UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Twenty-year-old Alyssa Haden was found dead,
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We heard a glass breaking, so we all looked outside. And they punched a whole through the door, I think, because he was very
upset.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Twenty-four hours later, Alyssa Haden`s brother-in- law is charged with misleading police, another stress for the family.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: For those of you just joining us, a loving husband turns out to be anything but, according to police. This 400-pound husband is now accused,
suspected of, killing, murdering his wife`s twin sister. And his defense, believe it or not, it was an accident, an accidental suffocation during
rough sex.
Here are the sisters, the twin sisters in life. Everyone says no one could be closer than these two. After her twin sister`s apartment was broken
into, the wife invites victim Alyssa Haden to move in with them. Someone had broken into her home and written perverted, crazy stuff on the crotch
of her bikini. So the sister moves in with them.
And it`s after that she`s found dead in her own bed, the defendant`s DNA on her, but she`s totally dressed, with the covers pulled up over her.
Straight out to Lindsay Corcoran joining us from Masslive.com, and Tammy Rose, investigative reporter. Lindsay, what can you tell me about a trip
to McDonald`s?
CORCORAN: Yes. Steven West told police that -- in various versions of the story he told police, he told them that he had left his home and went to
Walmart -- well, to McDonald`s to get some food and coffee, which he later ate in a Walmart parking lot.
GRACE: OK, let me understand this, Lindsay. You`re saying that even under his theory that he had had consensual sex with his wife`s twin sister, she
dies during, quote, "rough sex," he leaves her there in her bed. According to his story, he then goes to McDonald`s and what, gets a bacon biscuit and
eats it in the Walmart parking lot?
CORCORAN: I think a Big Mac and a coffee is what he said, yes.
GRACE: OK, a Big Mac and a coffee. So Tammy Rose, how does that fit into his scenario? I mean, even if he kills her during rough sex and it`s an
accident, it certainly did not affect his appetite, Tammy.
ROSE: Well, instead of seeking medical attention, he goes to McDonald`s and Walmart and then he goes to the hospital to visit his wife, who is
pregnant with their second child. He also admits throwing Alyssa`s phone out the window on his trip to McDonald`s and destroying the evidence
because he also said that in one of his multiple versions of stories to police, that he was having an affair with her, which police later said that
never even happened. So there was a lot of different versions of events that Steven told people.
GRACE: You know, as a mother of twins, I`m looking at these two twin girls right here -- nobody`s closer than twins, nobody. Not even a mother and a
child, I don`t think, is closer than twins. They are inside your tummy together. They grow up together. They go through all the same experiences
together.
And according to this defendant, they also both shared a lover, one a husband and the other a brother-in-law. It just -- it doesn`t make sense
to me, especially with what Tammy Rose is saying.
Tammy, you`re saying that on his trip to McDonald`s to get a Big Mac and a cup of coffee, he throws the murder victim`s phone out the window? And
what was on that phone?
ROSE: Well, he admitted to taking her phone. He admitted to destroying it. But he also said that he was having an affair with her for at least a
month or so. And police and prosecutors say that that`s just simply -- there`s no evidence of him even having an affair with her.
GRACE: Let me ask you something, Lindsay Corcoran, Masslive.com. Does the wife buy this, the then pregnant wife? Does she really believe her husband
was having -- that her sister, her twin sister, wanted to have an affair with her husband? Does she buy that?
[20:20:10]CORCORAN: I don`t think she did believe it. She got on the stand and told the jury about how disgusted her sister was with Steven
West.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Twenty-year-old Alyssa Haden was found dead noontime in her Pleasant Street apartment. Haden had a small wound on her neck.
Investigators say her body had been moved.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Twenty-four hours later, Alyssa Haden`s brother-in- law is charged...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It didn`t matter what you were feeling, she made you smile.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: This man claims that his wife`s twin sister died by accident during rough sex with him. Straight out to Matt Zarrell. I understand he told
several different stories?
ZARRELL: Yes, Nancy, he told many stories, including one that he claims that gang members from Indiana may have followed him to Massachusetts and
killed Alyssa Haden. He also sent letters to his wife claiming this gang story.
[20:25:12]Then when the cops challenge him on that, he gives another story, saying he returned home from the hospital, he encountered this man he knew
as Jacob Peterson (ph) coming out of his apartment armed with a knife and that he held the knife to his throat and said that he threatened to harm
his family if West told anyone that Peterson had been there. And he claimed that this guy Peterson had met West two months earlier and
expressed a desire to date Alyssa Haden. These are some of the many stories he gave police.
GRACE: Lindsay Corcoran joining us, Masslive.com. You know, when the defendant changes or a witness changes their story substantially, that
really affects their credibility.
Let me ask you about this. We keep hearing the body -- oh, my goodness, the suspect`s weight alone was like a refrigerator-and-a-half on her torso.
She died of compression asphyxiation to face, neck and chest. At the time, he weighed 400 pounds.
Lindsay Corcoran, we keep hearing that her body had been staged, that the police could tell it had been dressed. How could they tell it has been
dressed and moved?
CORCORAN: Well, it appeared to investigators that her pants were askew, as though they had not -- that she had not put them on herself. I think that
was the biggest indicator that he had redressed the body.
GRACE: You know, another issue, Tammy Rose, in addition to that, if they`re saying that his DNA is on her body -- they`re not saying in her
body. They`re not specifying, is it in her body, to suggest sex, or on her body. But if his DNA is on her body and then she`s dressed over that, that
could be an indicator.
Also, we don`t know the position in which she was laying under the sheets. For all I know, it could have been a totally unnatural position that would
show that the body had been staged, that this was no accident.
ROSE: Well, they`re charging him with first degree murder. They`re not charging him with aggravated rape. So you know, if he`s convicted, he
faces lifetime in prison. There`s no death penalty in Massachusetts. But you know, those are indications where they`re not completely sure of how
she died, whether it was rape, or like he said, consensual sex. But he was the cause of her death.
GRACE: I still -- you know, people are saying consensual sex -- I don`t buy a twin would have sex with her twin sister`s husband while she`s in the
hospital pregnant with the baby. I`m just not buying that. Also, if the wife, who has now divorced him, is to be believed, the twin sister was
repulsed by him.
And another thing, Matt. Isn`t it true that the wife said he tried to talk her into rough sex, as well?
ZARRELL: Yes, at least once a week, the wife said that West would ask her if he could tie her up. Also, the wife was reading him passages from the
book "50 Shades of Gray."
[20:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Shocking, damning video of a California man punching a toddler boy squarely in his face at a mini-mart. But tonight, it`s the same man
suspected in a hate crime. We have the video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s a video that`s gained national attention overnight. A little boy getting hit in the face by an older man, 23-year-old Justin
Whittington, and then yanked off the floor by his arm. You can see the boy hysterically crying when a woman walks up and takes the boy outside.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But this was by far on top of the line for being just the worst. I mean, that little kid, you know, just getting smacked like
that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK, Candace Trunzo, senior news editor dailymail.com, number one, he needs to rot in jail. Number one. But, let`s talk about this mother who`s
pregnant. She just comes up like, hey, that`s fine, you just punched my kid right in the face and then came back with your hands balled like you`re
what, a prizefighter in the ring, like what, you`re going to win a title over this with a 2-year-old?
And the mom just calmly takes the little boy and they go out. Man, he would have gotten a knuckle sandwich, no mayo, from me if somebody punched my
child in the face like that.
Oh, no. No, no, no. hold on, Candace, I want to look at this again. Look at it with me, Candace.
CANDACE TRUNZO, DAILYMAIL.COM SENIOR NEWS EDITOR: Yes.
GRACE: What`s the exactly - OK, here we go. The little boy, right -- you know what, look at that, look at him still yelling, pulling him up by his
limb ...
TRUNZO: I mean ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... and throwing him -- wait, wait, wait, throws him -- throws him, then mommy comes along, oh, sure. Go on and punch my kid in the face right
in the nose.
Liz, let me see this in slow mo one more time. Little boy running, he sees the dad coming, the dad comes around the corner. Punch, right in the face.
Picks the little boy up by one arm, which in itself is a problem. Throws the little boy against the cans or whatever the display is, and the mom
takes him out.
OK, Candace Trunzo, explain to me who is this man? Is this the child`s father, bio father?
TRUNZO: It is the child`s father. It`s 23-year-old Justin Whittington. If the little boy -- now we don`t know if he`s married to the mom, but the
pregnant woman that you see in the video is definitely the child`s mom, 3- year-old.
[20:35:00] GRACE: Everyone, for those of you just joining us, shocking and damning video emerges of this man, Justin Whittington beating a little tot,
a 3-year-old little boy, punching him squarely in the face. The video of the incident goes viral. And now we learned this man is suspected in a hate
crime?
You know, question, Stacey Newman, the hate crime we`re looking at, what happened in that?
STACEY NEWMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, I bet you won`t be surprised that this guy apparently has ties to a white supremacist gang and
in the federal case, he and another man took a sawed off shotgun, drove to the home of a Latino family and fired off the gun then a few minutes after
that, drove to an Arab-owned store and fired off the same shotgun. Now, he`s locked up on federal charges.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Randy Kessler and Mike Gottlieb. All right, Randy Kessler, I`ve had a few sawed off shotgun cases in my life. And just
having a sawed off shotgun, right there, is a felony, you know that, right?
RANDY KESSLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Okay.
GRACE: What do you mean, "OK"?
KESSLER: Okay, so it`s a felony. So, having a shotgun is a felony. This is -- this case that`s got to be plead out. I mean, this kind of video is
hard, hard, hard to defend. There`s a back story, there`s a longer version. Now, he`s going to get ...
GRACE: Now, what`s -- what`s the back story?
KESSLER: I don`t know. None of us know. That`s why we`re jumping into conclusions.
GRACE: You think there`s a back story.
KESSLER: There`s something there. Why -- it`s either he did that or your favorite defense, mental defense, you know, he`s got a mental illness,
something that needs to be treated.
GRACE: Yeah, he`s hateful.
KESSLER: OK.
GRACE: Not only does he beat this little boy, Gottlieb, he then takes a sawed off shotgun and fires at a Latino family, minding their own business,
that moves into the neighborhood. And then he goes after an Arab-owned business. I mean, do you have any defense that might work, Mike Gottlieb?
MIKE GOTTLIEB, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: First of all, the two situations are completely -- they`re not related to one another. It`s pure character
assassination to co-mingle them. The fact that he does or doesn`t beat the child, he`s got a defense to that. If you`re disciplining a child, you have
every right ...
GRACE: So you punch him in the face?
GOTTLIEB: ... to smack or hit your child. So he has an absolute ...
GRACE: In the face?
GOTTLIEB: I don`t know that he punched him in the face. That`s a grainy video, the video`s not in real time. I`m not certain. We don`t even know
how if it`s playing 30 frames per second.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... wide eyes because -- just take my word ...
GOTTLIEB: No, no, no.
GRACE: ... for it as an officer of the court. He punches him right in the face. And then he pulls back ...
GOTTLIEB: I`ve just seen the video.
GRACE: ...like he`s getting ready for a title bout.
GOTTLIEB: I`ve seen the video. I saw that the child is running from him. We don`t know if that video plays in real time or not. He has every right to
discipline the child.
GRACE: What are you talking about real time?
GOTTLIEB: Regardless of what`s on the video ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: What do you - put him up ...
(CROSSTALK)
GOTTLIEB: ... you don`t know ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... what are you talking about, we don`t know if it`s in real time? Are you saying ...
(CROSSTALK)
GOTTLIEB: You don`t know if that video ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... that somebody doctored the video?
(CROSSTALK)
GOTTLIEB: ... plays 30 frames per second. Not at all. But those videos ...
GRACE: Does it matter?
GOTTLIEB: ... aren`t always perfect. Yes, it does matter because if it`s playing faster than ...
GRACE: Why does it matter?
GOTTLIEB: ... because if the video plays faster than reality, it`s going to show the force of the hit harder than it actually was. And you don`t know
until you have that video analyzed by somebody who`s an expert in the field, to determine whether or not it`s playing true to life.
GRACE: OK ...
(CROSSTALK)
GOTTLIEB: ... and it has nothing to do with whether or not he`s a racist. It doesn`t mean he`s a racist.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: No offense ...
(CROSSTALK)
KESSLER: (Inaudible)
GRACE: No offense, Kessler but I`m hiring him, OK? When I`m charged with murder. Because, I mean, that theory, he just came up with, which is total
B.S., I mean, if you -- it`s like a snake charmer. I almost bought it for a moment. Something about how fast the video is running. It`s complete B.S.,
all right? But for a moment, it sounded ...
KESSLER: It`s not B.S., Nancy.
GRACE: Hold on. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, guys, hold on.
Joining me right now, special guest, Scott Spellman has just joined us. He is the Assistant District Attorney there in Kern County who investigated
and has handled this case.
Scott Spellman, thank you for being with us. Now, according to my defense attorneys, both renowned defense attorneys in their jurisdictions, they
claim that there is a back story to this. You investigated the case, what back story, other than he is a hateful human being?
SCOTT SPELLMAN, KERN COUNTY ASSISTANT DISTRICT ATTORNEY: When you look at the video, the short portion where he strikes the child. Of course, that
looks horrible.
The complete story on it is that they were in the store for about 20 minutes or so, and the child was running around, it was -- when you look at
the whole video, at times the child was playing with Whittington and then at times the child would run around, and partly it was play, but then
sometimes they`d have to chase after the child because the child would kind of get away from him and sometimes ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Well, Mr. Spellman, can I ask you a personal question? Do you have ...
SPELLMAN: Yes.
GRACE: ... children?
SPELLMAN: I don`t know if it`s going to matter, but yes I do ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Well then you know just as well as I do, that if you don`t supervise a child and hold their hand or keep them busy with something in your
grocery cart or however you want to do it, they are going to run around the store. Whose fault is that?
That`s mommy and daddy`s fault that the child is running wild. It`s not the child`s fault. They`re doing what comes natural. So, can I see this video
one more time? Everybody with me, special guest Scott Spellman who investigated this case for -- here we go.
[20:40:00] GRACE: OK. You know what? Marc Klaas, president and founder, KlaasKids Foundation, you heard what Scott Spellman said. The little tot,
he`s 3 years old, he`s guilty of running around the store. That`s what he did wrong. I want to hear what you have to say.
MARC KLAAS, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER: Well, the one thing that always strikes me as odd is how you can have hate crimes against
people of a different religion, people of a different race, but you don`t classify a crime against the child as a hate crime when they are probably
the most vulnerable population that`s out there.
I also would like to wonder and ask your lawyer exactly how softly do you have to punch your child in the face before it`s abuse?
You`re correct, Nancy, the thing that connects all of these cases is his hatred and the anger that he`s unable to control.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:45:00] GRACE: Will this man, smiling and waving in court, the man convicted in the brutal murder of a high school girl, Hae Lee, actually
walk free?
Thanks to a female journalist who catapults to fame, herself, with a pod cast called "Serial" that brings the murder back to the forefront
reexploring evidence that originally convicted Syed.
But the victim`s family says this whole nightmare reopens painful wounds, "no one can imagine." And they are now forced to relive the gruesome murder
of their daughter, Hae, high school senior, lacrosse and field hockey star at the time she was murdered. Her body left strangled in a shallow grave.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Adnan Syed has been in prison for 16 years. He`s in Baltimore court now, hoping to win a retrial for the murder of his ex-
girlfriend, Hae Min Lee.
ADNAN SYED, CONVICTED FOR THE MURDER OR HAE MIN LEE: I would love to hear someone say, I don`t think that you did it because I looked at the case and
it looks kind of flimsy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The serial podcast of Syed`s case went viral and helped sparked the hearing about evidence that was and wasn`t produced at his
murder trial.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That`s for podcast "Serial," produced by WBEZ Chicago. Right now, a judge is waiting to rule on whether this convicted killer is going to get a
new trial. He`s already had two, in the murder of this girl, Hae.
Now, this is what I know, Steve Helling, senior reporter, "People Magazine."
Steve, I know that Adnan was dating Hae, OK? On the day that she was last seen, around 3 p.m., she left school, she had a car, and his own words
place him using her car that day.
There is a friend named Jay that claims he was called by Adnan to help him. That he had killed Hae and he needed help getting rid of the body. That`s
what Jay says, all right?
In Hae`s car is a map with Adnan`s fingerprints on it. Jay says he sees the body in the car trunk, the girl`s body, the high school girl, and that he
helps Adnan bury the body in a shallow grave near a park.
And coincidentally, that map book which is in Hae`s car, has one page torn out of it, that page is for the park. The map including the park. And on
that map book, is the defendant`s finger print, palm print. Is that right?
OK. What part ...
STEVE HELLING, "PEOPLE MAGAZINE" SENIOR REPORTER: All that is correct.
GRACE: ... am I missing? What am I missing? And then there are all these telephone calls between Adnan who`s charged in her murder and the go-
between between him and Jay, who helped bury the body. What have I missed?
HELLING: Well one thing that you`ve missed, Nancy, is that there was a witness way back when this happened. Asia McClain who says that she saw Jay
-- or she saw Adnan and actually spoke with him in the library at the time that he was allegedly strangling Hae.
So that`s one of the things right there. That there was this witness, she was never called at trial, she reached out right away. And so for 16 years
now, she`s been wanting to testify to what she remembers from that day.
GRACE: Has she? Has she?
HELLING: And that puts a lot of things into doubt. Yes. Yes she was.
GRACE: Isn`t it true, Seema Iyer, former prosecutor was in court for Syed`s hearing as columnist for "The Dean`s Report." Seema Iyer, isn`t it true the
defense knew about this girl witness who kept writing the defendant behind bars and they went and they actually interviewed the security guards at the
library where she said she had this conversation with the defendant, and decided at the time, she had so many problems with her testimony, they
couldn`t call her. Isn`t that true, Seema?
SEEMA IYER, "THE DEAN`S REPORT` COLUMNIST: No, that is not exactly true, Nancy. The issue is that Asia McClain never knew her significance until
after the serial podcast. That is the crucial piece of information that you are missing. That time period, 2:15 to 2:40. It was never told to ...
GRACE: At 2:15 to 2:40?
IYER: ... Asia that that was precisely the time of the crime.
GRACE: Well, no, no. She was spotted at school, Justin Freiman. She was spotted at school around 3:00 p.m. And explain to me, Justin, from the
documents I have that I reviewed, the defense did go talk to security guards at the library trying to investigate this "new witness`s testimony."
They knew about the girl`s testimony and they decided not to use her because of all of her problems with her testimony.
JUSTIN FREIMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: That`s right, Nancy. They did know about her. They did follow up with the security guard at that library. They
decided not to use her. And she herself even says that she can`t say whether or not he`s guilty of this.
[20:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: A prank? A Florida man throws a snapping gator, an alligator, into Wendy`s drive-thru. But when terrified employees called 911, then he claims
it was a prank.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ed and Linda James say their son, Josh, is harmless. But he`s sitting in jail facing serious charges.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s a stupid kid and he did a stupid prank.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK, stupid kid, stupid prank. Jack Hanna joining me, Director Emeritus at the Columbus Zoo, host of "Jack Hanna`s Into the Wild" and
"Wild Countdown".
Jack, before I start on this nut that throws the gator into the Wendy`s drive-thru, my children idolized you, OK? You`re awesome. OK, Jack, why is
it not a prank to throw a snapping gator through the Wendy`s drive-thru?
[20:55:00] JACK HANNA, COLUMBUS ZOO DIRECTOR EMERITUS: Well, number one, I don`t know how you ever thought about that idea in a million years. That
was 1958, when I was a little boy, you could buy gators in Florida for about 10 bucks. However, that`s against the law today.
This animal is a little old, not even an 8-incher, puts a major tear in my hand. So, therefore you take a 3-1/2-footer, and you see that animal is big
enough to literally take off fingers or a hand. That young man obviously should be punished, but as far as what that could be, I don`t know, but
somebody could literally have lost something.
One thing I don`t know, did he raise this animal or is it a wild -- I don`t think it`s a wild animal because they released it.
If it`s a wild gator, then that`s another story. Now, remember something. These gators can live up to 75 years, who knows how long, they can go
months without ever eating. They`re very fast. A gator on the ground can go 20 feet without (inaudible) in about 20 feet.
They also (inaudible) the vibration underwater. They feel vibrations about two miles away underwater. Now, the animal is a prehistoric animal, very
small brain, but you know, having a gator, as I said before, unless you had the proper permits from the federal government and the state, there are
several guys I know that have gators and have them confiscated, they send them to these places, but you know, the guy should never have done that
from the standpoint that somebody could literally have gotten seriously bitten.
GRACE: Matthew Dempsey, I want to follow up on what Jack Hanna said. Jack Hanna`s "Into the Wild" and "Wild Countdown." What would possess somebody
to -- I don`t know, you kind of looked at me like you might be of the age, no offense, that might think it`s funny to throw a gator through the
Wendy`s drive-thru.
MATTHEW DEMPSEY, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, I think that, you know, being of the age where pranking is okay, but that`s when, you know, using toilet
paper in trees. This is something that`s much more than a prank. You know, when you`re using a live animal like this, it`s going to be something
that`s` so much more along the lines of a disordered thinking. So maybe something that we would actually ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: What do you mean, disordered thinking? You`re not starting up about insanity, are you?
Dempsey: Disordered thinking. Something along those lines. It could be suggestive of conduct disorder because he`s threatening other people using
...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Do you think everybody`s insane, Matthew Dempsey? Do you just think everybody`s got a mental defect?
DEMPSEY: Sometimes.
GRACE: Well, actually, you know what, Matthew, I can`t really disagree with you. There`s the old quote, "Everyone is insane but me and thee and I think
thee a bit odd at times." Matt Zarrell, explain to me what happened?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: OK, so what happened was, is that they said that Joshua James pulls up to the drive-thru, and as the drive-thru
employee turns around after giving him the drink, he hurls the 3-1/2-foot alligator in through the drive-thru window and he claimed, Nancy, it was
all just a prank, that his friend was an employee at the Wendy`s and that they were playing a joke on him.
GRACE: OK, Jack Hanna, Jack Hanna`s "Into the Wild" and "Wild Countdown" in Columbus Zoo. Jack Hanna, 4 feet, come to me.
HANNA: Yes?
GRACE: Four feet, that is - that`s about as tall as one of my twins right now. What if -- and I`ve been researching this for my new book, "Murder in
the Courthouse."
And you know, a gator has 84 teeth and they`ve got a fourth tooth, which comes up the middle of their lower palate. It fits into a socket in their
upper palate. Once they get a hold of your arm, they`re not letting go, Jack Hanna.
HANNA: No, no. When a gator goes after something, and I`ve seen some gator accidents, major ones. I`ve seen crocodiles which are much more aggressive,
Australia, Africa, Asia, all over the world, lots of them. But the gator is one animal. They lay their -- when they lay eggs, these animals will defend
-- they`ll go after your boats, especially crocodile or alligator when they have eggs that they`re watching, they don`t have (inaudible), they lay
eggs.
And the point is, as you said, you know, this guy obviously has a problem. He might think it was funny prank, but this thing could have led to
somebody being, you know, very, very harmed.
I`m not trying to say this young man say go imprisoned for life, I`m just saying he should have some punishment to understand that you can`t take a
wild animal -- it`s not fair to the person and the thing there is obviously not merely alligator, whether you like alligators or not.
GRACE: And you know, Jack, so often, you drive through a Wendy`s or a McDonald`s, and those are just kids back there at the drive-thru, to start
with. I mean, what if this thing had latched on to one of them, on their arm, their neck, God forbid. With me, Jack Hanna. We`ll see justice unfold
on this one.
Let`s remember, American hero, Bedminster Police Chief Craig "Medal" Meyer, 57, Peapack, New Jersey. Served 21 years including SWAT. Highly-decorated
police chief, 2014. Founded Meyer Brothers Excavating Construction with his twin brother, Chuck. Loved fishing at the shore. A family of officers; two
nephews. Parents, Charles and Jean. Sisters, Linda and Diana. Widow, Kaki. Son, Grayson. Craig Meyer, American hero.
Thank you for being with us. Nancy Grace, signing off. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8 o`clock sharp, Eastern, and until then, goodnight,
friend.
[21:00:00]
END
