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Nancy Grace
Husband on Trial for Murder of Wife; Caught on Tape: Sheriff Tasers Elderly Woman; Schoolgirl Orders Hit on Mom. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired February 16, 2016 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: Breaking news tonight. Friends, family, relatives in shock after husband Skylar Nemetz walks free. Police hone in on Nemetz
when his young wife, Danielle, found seated at her home computer, shot dead in the back of the head after police say a neighbor buys her alcohol at her
request while Nemetz was away on military training. And it infuriates Nemetz to the point he was, quote, "shaking with anger."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Enraged, prosecutors say, Nemetz shot her as she sat at a computer at the couple`s Lakewood apartment.
911 OPERATOR: Is she breathing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. Danielle?
911 OPERATOR: Danielle was the one shot and he accidentally shot her?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He made up several stories, first saying she shot herself, then claiming her death was an accident.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Caught on tape, a Hamilton County sheriff caught red-handed as he tasers a woman to the floor all over an earring?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ah!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, Nancy Mason (ph) is brought into the Hamilton County jail charged with theft. She refuses to take off her jewelry before
being booked.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ah!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You broke my arm.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn`t break your arm. You broke it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: She needs to go! Bone-chilling words from a school girl. She texted her 20-year-old boyfriend in the Army. Mommy`s body found covered
in stab wounds to her head, her neck, her torso, Mommy dumped in a shallow grave, blood evidence leading back to Mommy`s car. Other texts to the
little 8th grader to her adult tattooed boyfriend, quote, "Mommy`s lying about my age and just do it!"
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say Jamie Silvonek (ph) helped her boyfriend murder her mother.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "She needs to go, Caleb, right now."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In a text message sent that night, teenage Silvonek said, quote, "I want her gone."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. Friends, family, relatives in shock after husband Skylar Nemetz walks free. Police hone in on Nemetz when his young wife,
Danielle, is found still seated at her home computer but shot dead in the back of the head, blowing off her face.
Police say a neighbor had bought Danielle alcohol at her request. He stopped by the liquor store while Nemetz away on military training. And
when he found out the neighbor had done that favor, it infuriated Nemetz so much, he was to the point he was, quote, "shaking with anger."
Straight out to Candace Trunzo, senior editor, Dailymail.com. Candace Trunzo, I know that this episode apparently infuriated Nemetz, the husband.
He was away for about two weeks on some military training op. And he was the one that told his wife to go to the liquor store and have it there when
he got home. He had been dry for two weeks. He wanted X, whatever liquor -- oh, it was, like, cinnamon vodka or...
CANDACE TRUNZO, DAILYMAIL.COM (via telephone): Cinnamon whiskey, yes.
GRACE: Whiskey, that`s right, cinnamon whiskey. I never heard of it. It`s got, like, a devil on the side with a pitchfork.
But long story short, he asked her to go get the liquor. And she then mentions it to a neighbor, who stops by the liquor store, brings it, drops
it at the house. And he gets furious. But I don`t see that as enough of a motive.
So what I want to talk about, Candace Trunzo, is the physical evidence. I want to start with the physical evidence. What do we know, Candace?
TRUNZO: Well, we know that when the police arrived, they found her sitting at her computer. She was shot through her left eye. She was shot in the
back with an AR-15 assault weapon, through the back, went through the eye, into the computer.
GRACE: Wait, wait, wait! Did you say an assault weapon?
TRUNZO: Yes. An AR-15 assault weapon.
GRACE: Guys, I`m being joined right now -- hold on, Candace Trunzo from Dailymail.com. In my ear, I`m hearing we have special guest joining us,
Mark Lindquist, the Pierce County elected prosecutor.
Mark, thank you so much for being with us.
MARK LINDQUIST, PIERCE COUNTY PROSECUTOR (via telephone): Thank you, Nancy.
GRACE: Mark, I know that you are on a break from court, so I want to ask you a couple of quick questions. I know all about the amendment to the
Constitution that gives us the right to bear arms. I`m fine with bearing arms. But an assault weapon at home? Why did he have an assault weapon at
home, Mark?
[20:05:00]LINDQUIST: The defendant was highly experienced with firearms. He actually had 15 different weapons in his apartment. He`d been handling
guns since he was 4 years old. He actually builds AR-15s. He buys the parts and puts them together. And he customized the weapon in this case
for Danielle. So...
GRACE: Wait, what does that mean? I think I know my way around a weapon from being a prosecutor for so many years, but what do you mean he
customized an AR -- an assault weapon for his wife?
LINDQUIST: He put together the parts and he balanced the weapon in a way that it would be ambidextrous, so it could be used on either shoulder.
GRACE: You`re seeing the scene of the shooting. We`ve heard everything from an accident to she was the one holding the weapon, to a mistake. I`m
trying to get a line on what exactly the defense is going to be. And there you see Danielle Nemetz and Skylar in their happy times.
And as a matter of fact, it was stated in evidence that there had been no argument leading up to the shooting. But it`s only him and her in the
room, isn`t that right, Mark Lindquist?
LINDQUIST: Right. But we can look at what happened before they were alone together in the room. Initially, as you pointed out, the defendant said
Danielle shot herself. Later he said that he shot her accidentally. And now at trial, he`s saying that he doesn`t remember pulling the trigger.
GRACE: You know what? You just brought up something really interesting, Mark Lindquist. I`m just getting it straight out of the courtroom. Listen
to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Skylar, did you point the weapon at your wife?
SKYLAR NEMETZ, CHARGED WITH MURDER: No, I didn`t!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you intend to hurt your wife?
NEMETZ: I did not! I did not intend to hurt my wife. I never did. I wanted her to be with me forever! I wanted her to be the mother of my
child.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK, straight to you, Ryan Schwartz, defense attorney out of the Atlanta jurisdiction. Why is he crying now? Because from what I
understand, the day of the shooting, Ryan Schwartz, he wasn`t crying. After his wife accidentally shot herself in the head as she was sitting at
her home computer, it`s my understanding he actually kicked some evidence under the bed and hid some other evidence. But in court, it`s, Wah, wah.
RYAN SCHWARTZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, again, Nancy, this is an accident. Accidents happen every day. He`s obviously upset because he didn`t intend
to kill his wife.
GRACE: OK, you know what? I hear you. I hear you. But I want to analyze what this guy says on the stand again. Oh, yes, he`s crying now! Run it
again, Liz.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Skylar, did you point the weapon at your wife?
NEMETZ: No, I didn`t!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you intend to hurt your wife?
NEMETZ: I did not! I did not intend to hurt my wife. I never did. I wanted her to be with me forever! I wanted her to be the mother of my
child.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Mark Lindquist joining me, the elected prosecutor in Pierce County. Mark, has he been crying like that the whole time?
LINDQUIST: No, he hasn`t. But -- and as you know, Nancy, prosecutors don`t have to prove motive, but jurors always want to know the motive,
right? And the motive in this case was jealousy. The evidence suggests the defendant thought Danielle was fooling around with another soldier.
Even if that`s not true, the point is the defendant suspected that.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Joining me out of Atlanta, Ryan Schwartz, and out of New York, family lay attorney and victims` rights advocate, Susan
Moss.
Susan Moss, did you see him turning on those waterworks? You know, he wasn`t crying that day.
SUSAN MOSS, VICTIMS` RIGHTS ATTORNEY: No, I actually didn`t see any tears at all. Apparently, he didn`t go to the Jodi Arias school of learning how
to cry! But domestic violence is violence, and domestic violence that leads to murder is murder!
More women die at the hands of their partner than any other disease or any other reason! The facts here is that this was a man who was intense on
control! And when he thought that his wife was receiving gifts, in this case alcohol from the neighbor, that`s when he went crazy! That`s what
happened in this case, and that`s what I believe they`ll prove!
GRACE: But isn`t it true, Candace Trunzo, senior news editor, Dailymail.com, he`s the one that asked for the liquor? He started the
whole thing.
TRUNZO: He did. He was texting -- I mean, he couldn`t wait to get his hands on that bottle of cinnamon whiskey. He was texting her, Please get
me the whiskey, please get me the whiskey. And for whatever reason, she didn`t get it. She got a neighbor get it, and the neighbor was a man. The
neighbor was a man, and he suspected something was going on between this man and Danielle, that she was cheating on him.
GRACE: With me right now, renowned forensic pathologist Dr. William Morrone joining me out of Madison Heights. Dr. Morrone, thank you for
being with us.
[20:10:00]It`s my contention, and I think the district attorney agrees with me -- I`ve got him right here with me, Mark Lindquist -- Dr. Morrone, this
is absolutely impossible to have been self-inflicted. Yes, no.
DR. WILLIAM MORRONE, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Absolutely. You can`t shoot yourself in the back of the head with a rifle. Absolutely.
GRACE: Now, why do you say that?
MORRONE: Well, it`s going to take holding it in such a way that you can pull the trigger, and you can`t put that far enough behind you even with a
short barrel. And this is a small, petite woman, and the legal distance between the chamber and the tip of the barrel is mandated by the state, and
that has to be certain distance. She would have had to have been reaching three feet behind her head...
GRACE: Ridiculous!
MORRONE: ... to get to the trigger to shoot herself in the head so it would come out the eye. And that round is going over a thousand feet a
second. That`s why it penetrates bone twice.
GRACE: Joining us on a break is Mark Lindquist, the Pierce County elected prosecutor. Again, Mr. Lindquist, thank you for being with us, joining us
out of Tacoma.
Mark, I want to look at the facts. I mean, as you said, the state doesn`t have to prove motive, although the jury likes to think they know the motive
because it helps them put together the puzzle, like we all want to do.
LINDQUIST: Right.
GRACE: But what you`ve got to rely on, as you accurately pointed out, is the hard forensics. What can you tell me about what was found in that
room? How do we know she had been sitting at her computer at the time she was shot in the head?
LINDQUIST: There`s really no dispute that she was sitting at the computer when she was shot in the head. And at this point in the trial, the defense
is arguing not that she shot herself, but rather that it was an accident. That`s the whole defense.
And that`s the whole question. Was this an accident? Was it intentional? And that`s why the defendant`s experience with firearms is critical to the
case. But it`s not just that physical evidence, it`s the behavior afterwards.
GRACE: Right.
LINDQUIST: The defendant never called 911. He never called for help. He seemed more focused on cleaning up the scene, disposing of the liquor
bottles...
GRACE: Oh!
LINDQUIST: ... than getting help. And it`s his actions combined with his statements...
GRACE: Behavioral evidence.
LINDQUIST: ... and his experience with firearms that add up to murder, rather than an accident.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:16:00]911 OPERATOR: So the male told you that his wife is dead?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Prosecutors say after Skylar Nemetz shot his wife in the back of the head with an AR-15, he made up several stories.
NEMETZ: I did not intend to hurt my wife! I never did!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: There you see Skylar Nemetz on the stand defending himself and claims that he, in cold blood, shot down his young wife. Apparently,
motive, he had been away for about two weeks on a training op with the military and demanded over and over, texting and calling, that she have a
certain kind of liquor at the house when he got home.
Well, a neighbor stopped by the liquor store and got it for her, and when he found out this neighbor was actually a man, he allegedly goes berserk to
the point that he was actually shaking.
With me right now, special guest, in addition to Mark Lindquist, the elected prosecutor in that jurisdiction, James Peltier, friend and neighbor
of the victim, Danielle Nemetz.
James, thank you for being with us.
JAMES PELTIER, FRIEND AND NEIGHBOR (via telephone): Thank you, Nancy.
GRACE: I`m just so stunned that this situation escalated to the point where she is gunned down dead sitting at her home computer. What can you
tell us about their relationship? What did you ever observe?
PELTIER: Well, there was some red flags on one occasion that really stood out to us the last time she came down to Humboldt County to visit us, and
he was fighting with her and ended up smashing her cell phone to the ground. And I had conversations with Danielle. He just basically dumped
her at our house, didn`t even come in and say hi or anything. And I talked to Danielle and asked her if she was afraid of him or in fear, and her
response was, Only when he`s been drinking.
GRACE: "Only when he`s been drinking." Everybody, that`s home video of Danielle from YouTube. Let`s listen to it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANIELLE NEMETZ, VICTIM: I`m so excited! OK, is there a card? OK. Read your card first. I`m so excited! OK.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: There you see Danielle apparently reading a gift and a card from her husband, clearly deeply, deeply in love with him.
I want to go through the physical evidence. Matt Zarrell, I want to walk through the blood evidence and why we know his story is a lie. But first,
listen to him. We just got this from the courtroom.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NEMETZ: And I was trying to clear the weapon, and I didn`t do it correctly and I made a terrible mistake. And the weapon went off in my hands and it
struck the back of my wife. It hit her in the head. And she died.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Christopher Robinson, firearms expert with Chris Robinson Forensics, former crime lab director out of Orlando -- Chris, that is a
crock of BS, what I just heard. I`m not a gun expert like you, but I know that, what he just said, is a lie. I mean, really? I was cleaning my
shotgun? How old is that?
CHRIS ROBINSON, FIREARMS EXPERT (via telephone): Absolutely, Nancy. The first rule of any gun is to keep it pointed in a safe direction. So it`s
pointed at the back of her head, when he`s supposedly trying to clear the weapon. Well, why is his finger on the trigger of the weapon? When you`re
trying to clear the weapon, you just pull the bolt to the rear and eject the cartridge case. So why would he be having his finger on the trigger?
He had to fire the weapon, so he had to pull the trigger.
GRACE: Matt, what do we know about the blood evidence and the physical evidence at the scene?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): OK, so when officers found Danielle, she was in a chair at the computer, with her head slumped
forward and a pool of blood at her feet. The bullet actually went through the computer screen she was facing.
[20:20:00]Cops also discovered that there was a magazine under the bed. The AR-15 was in the closet. The cinnamon whiskey was flushed down the
toilet, and the liquor bottles were thrown into some brush underneath the apartment building.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Prosecutors claim Nemetz became enraged after learning another man bought his wife liquor.
911 OPERATOR: (INAUDIBLE) shot her?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know that part. We just heard the gun go off, and he said there was an accident.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nemetz contends the shooting was an accident.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: For those of you just joining us, a young wife found dead, clearly sitting at her own home computer when she`s shot in the head. Now,
theories abound as to what really happened, but her husband, the only one at home at the time of the shooting beside her -- and they had been very
happy up until this point, by all accounts -- was that first, she did it herself. Second, it was an accident, that he was cleaning his gun, and
third, a variation on accident.
[20:25:09]Can those stories all be true? Well, not according to the physical evidence. But look at what we`re hearing in court right now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The woman that means the rest of your life to -- you didn`t go to her aid, did you.
NEMETZ: No, I did not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Plus (ph) says that you were shaking with anger because he told you someone else got the alcohol.
NEMETZ: That did not happen, sir.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Dr. Daniel Bober, forensic psychiatrist joining me out of Miami. Dr. Bober, it`s too difficult for me to believe this guy.
He`s told several stories. Now he`s saying he was not shaking with anger. According to one witness, he was.
What do you make of it? Now, you`ve heard from the friend, joining us today, James Peltier, that said the wife said, I was never afraid of him
except when he was drinking.
DANIEL BOBER, FORENSIC PSYCHIATRIST: Nancy, there are a lot of aspects of this story that are very troubling -- the multiple versions that he told
about how she died, the attempts to conceal evidence after the crime. We`re never really going to know what happened leading up to the moments
before her death. But certainly, there is a motive there.
And a lot of times it`s when people are saying that they weren`t thinking what they were doing that they were doing what they were thinking. So I
think that he was desperate and he was scared at the last minute and he probably knew that he was going to get caught, and so he attempted to
sanitize the scene, if you will. But it just doesn`t really add up. His version just doesn`t make sense.
GRACE: The changing stories. Unleash the lawyers, Sue Moss out of New York, Ryan Schwartz out of Atlanta, Danny Cevallos joining us out of
Philadelphia.
First to you, Danny Cevallos. Why didn`t he call 911? If this were an accident, as he`s saying, cleaning his assault rifle, then why didn`t he
call 911?
DANNY CEVALLOS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: He`s got a lot of things to explain away. But I think the difference between not calling 911 and bringing in
all this evidence that maybe they had arguments and maybe they didn`t get along -- you see this all the time in murder cases, and it really is unfair
to demonstrate that somebody maybe didn`t get along with his wife, and therefore, that`s the reason he may not have been cleaning his guns by
accident.
GRACE: What`s unfair about that?
CEVALLOS: Still it doesn`t change the fact -- it`s unfair because it goes -- you know as well as I do, Nancy, that yes, it`s admissible...
GRACE: Well, first of all...
CEVALLOS: ... but it`s really about...
GRACE: ... don`t tell me what...
CEVALLOS: It`s tainting the jury.
GRACE: ... I know or don`t know, number one. I don`t need you...
CEVALLOS: Well, I`m pretty sure you know that, Nancy.
GRACE: ... to school me in the law, but thank you. And I`m asking you a direct question. Are you saying it`s unfair that behavioral evidence comes
in before the jury?
CEVALLOS: It`s -- look, we`ve decided as a society that it`s admissible, but it is problematic because you`d be hard-pressed to find a marriage that
doesn`t have some disagreement, some strife. And to use that to demonstrate to a jury that that`s why somebody really wasn`t cleaning his
gun by accident seems a little unfair. But to be frank...
GRACE: Well, of course, the question that I asked you...
CEVALLOS: ... we have another rule, so...
GRACE: ... was why...
CEVALLOS: ... what can I tell you.
GRACE: ... didn`t he call 911. That was the question.
And to Mark Lindquist joining us, the elected prosecutor in Pierce County there in Tacoma. Mark, the reality is, it`s highly, highly probative when
you are at home, you`re the only other person in the home, and you were in the middle of a fast and furious fight with your wife over something that
has just happened. I think it`s highly probative.
LINDQUIST: Right. And the jury wants to know what happened before the shooting and after the shooting because it helps them appraise the
defendant`s mental state. What was he doing and why?
GRACE: Candace Trunzo, senior news editor, Dailymail.com, do you really think a jury is going to buy all this waterworks in the courtroom, the
crying, the snotting, the sniveling? And he only does that at certain points, for instance, when he`s asked a tough question that he doesn`t want
to answer.
TRUNZO: Well, it`s true, but you know, this guy -- he has no record. He has nothing to blemish, you know, a military man, nothing, nothing to take
away from the fact that he was an upstanding citizen and a good soldier. So I think the jury could be possibly swayed by this. But what would drive
him to shoot this wonderful young wife that he seemed to love? Anybody`s guess.
GRACE: OK, are these real or are these crocodile tears?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Skylar, did you point the weapon at your wife?
NEMETZ: No, I didn`t!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you intend to hurt your wife?
NEMETZ: I did not! I did not intend to hurt my wife. I never did. I wanted her to be with me forever! I wanted her to be the mother of my
child.
[20:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Caught on tape, a Hamilton County Sheriff tasers a woman, old enough to be a grandma, to the floor. She`s screaming in pain and it`s all over a
single earring.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She refuses to take off her jewelry before being booked. He fired the taser, sending her crashing to the ground. In her lawsuit,
Mason says four other deputies and the Chattanooga police officer who arrested her did nothing to protect her from the attack.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:35:00] GRACE: Why are the others just standing around while grandma gets tasered over an earring?! We have several videos from different
vantage points. I want you to decide what you think. Liz, could you roll the video with sound, please.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, step right over there or you will be --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I will report you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Report all you want to. I will not keep telling you.
(SCREAM)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, now will you be able to get up and place your earring on this -- on this?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think I can. (ph)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can? Get up and place your earrings --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Bill Lockhart, assistant programming director, WGOW. Bill, what happened?
BILL LOCKHART, ASSISTANT PROGRAM DIRECTOR WGOW: Well, Ms. Mason was picked up for theft. She had been accused of stealing some items from a store at
Hamilton Place Mall, was taken to central booking at the county jail. Apparently things were going along as planned when she was compliant, but
became a little bit frustrated during the booking process, and as you saw on the video, there was very little warning between the "I don`t have to
tell you again" and the time that the taser was deployed by Sergeant Terrell.
GRACE: Wow. Hold on, guys. We`ve got video from another vantage point. Liz, let`s see it from the other vantage point. Here we go. Now, there she is.
They`re patting her down. Later, this sheriff, this sergeant says, she wouldn`t agree to be patted down. She was patted down. She`s talking about
the jewelry -- boom! She gets tasered. Back it up again, Liz, if you don`t mind, very quickly -- straight back to Bill Lockhart, assistant program
director, WGOW. And look at the other sheriffs just standing around. Tell me something, Bill, what was the threat? What threat did this 61-year-old
grandma pose to four grown men? Explain?
LOCKHART: Well, apparently when she gave a little bit of pushback questioning why she should give up her earrings, that`s when things turned.
And there was about, I don`t know, 20 - 25 seconds of dialogue and then he administered his stun gun, his taser.
GRACE: Joining me right now is Matthew Horace and Robin Flores, the lawyer for the grandma who was tased. Matthew Horace is a former ATF executive,
senior V.P. at FJC Security. Matthew, I`m stunned. Did you hear what Bill Lockhart just said from WGOW? She gave 25 seconds or so of pushback. In
other words, she was talking. The grandma is talking.
She`s saying, what -- ow! Why do I have to take off my earring for a booking photo? Why?! And they taser her to the ground! Could you take me
to, Matthew Horace, please?
MATTHEW HORACE, LAW ENFORCEMENT & SECURITY EXPERT: Well, Nancy, as you know, the rules of engagement in the penal system are very different than
they are on the street. This was a situation of noncompliance. The deputy gave her lawful instructions, she didn`t follow them, and subsequently she
was tased --
GRACE: Put him up.
HORACE: She wasn`t injured.
GRACE: Matthew, you know what, I respect you. I almost always agree with you, but that is the biggest line of B.S. I heard since O.J. Simpson said
he was going to kill himself in that Bronco, okay, while he was calling all the defense lawyers. Matthew, the woman is saying, why do I have to take
off my earring for a booking photo, and they taser a grandma! And this ain`t the streets. This is there at booking (ph) and there`s four hulking
security guard -- I mean sheriff standing there, watching.
They let it happen and -- put Matthew back up. Matthew Horace, she breaks her arm. She does break her arm. She goes, "I think you broke my arm." And
the sergeant says, "I didn`t break it, you broke it." That`s okay with you?
HORACE: The sergeant gave her a lawful demand. She didn`t follow and it was legal.
GRACE: Take off your earring? Take off your earring? Are you serious? Are you standing by that? You`re going to go down with the ship? I am not going
down with you and the other rats on the ship. No! Robin Flores, I`m all about following a cop`s orders, okay? I follow cop`s orders. They give me
orders whenever I`ve been pulled over for whatever reason.
I do it and I shut the hay up, and whether I think it`s right or wrong. But, I mean, really? The woman breaks her wrist falling. This is a grandma,
for Pete`s sake! And they tase her and they all stand there and watch her fall to the floor? Help me, Robin! Help me understand.
[20:40:00] ROBIN FLORES, ATTORNEY FOR WOMAN TASED: Well, clearly, as we claim in our complaint, there was an excessive use of force. You`re using a
step up from hands or maybe restraining somebody in a chair, to using a second-level impact weapon, other than a gun. And the question would be in
our complaint is, why was that amount force necessary to get her to comply to remove her earrings?
GRACE: I understand. You know, I`m going to go to Dr. William Morrone as well, renowned forensic pathologist. Dr. Morrone, explain to those who
don`t know what it feels like to get tasered.
WILLIAM MORRONE, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: A taser disrupts all of the electrical activity in the body, between the nerves and the muscles. And
the purpose is to paralyze you. Its actual amount of energy is measured in joules. A joule, 1 to 2 joules, is what it takes to restart the heart when
somebody is in a code and they apply the paddles to the chest.
And it`s the equivalent of plugging somebody into the wall. Its hard electricity, it hurts from head to toe. And everything in your body just
crumples up and sometimes, when muscles contract, they break the bones on people who have thinner bones or are elderly. Very painful.
GRACE: You know, I know they`re saying, it would have been so easy to say, "Lady, look, i don`t want to taser you. Take off your earring, please." I
mean, for Pete`s sake. This is a lady, a grandma, and what did she do? What? Steal some jewelry from Walmart or Kmart? Okay, for those of you that
have never seen what happens with a taser, look at CNN`s Rick Sanchez.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: I`m about to receive 50,000 volts of electricity. Do it. Ahh! Ohh! It hurts.
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[20:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: "She needs to go." Bone-chilling words from a schoolgirl, words she texted to her 20-year-old boyfriend in the army. Mommy`s body then found
covered, covered in stab wounds, to the head, the neck, the torso. Many of them fatal, each in themselves. The mother then dumped in a shallow grave.
Blood evidence, we discover, leads back to the mother`s car. Now, there are other reported texts from the little eighth grader that were sent back and
forth to her adult tattooed boyfriend quote, saying, "mom is lying to you about my age, and just do it."
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "I love you. We can do this." Police say Jamie Silvonek helped her boyfriend murder her mother.
"Please do it. I`m going to throw up."
Police say Barnes stabbed the girl`s mother.
"I`m trusting you."
The mother was found dead in a shallow grave.
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GRACE: This girl, a schoolgirl, had been dating a grown man, a 20-year-old guy in the Army covered in tattoo:. She`s like 13 years old at the time.
Jamie Silvonek, then, apparently, believe it or not, is believed to be the mastermind -- talking the boyfriend, Caleb Barnes, into murdering her mom,
Cheryl. I want you to listen to the texts that we have obtained.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Caleb, if she asks about your age, say 16 and a half again, and that the reason you said 20 is you`re used to lying about it to
fellow soldiers in the army to avoid harassment so when you`re in stressful scenarios, it just comes out.
She needs to go, Caleb. Right now. You don`t understand. She threatened to throw me out of the house. I want her gone. I just need you to be able to
come over, so we can do whatever necessary. I`m going to go to the bathroom while you do it, okay? I`ll come right out as soon as you`re done. Why
don`t we wait until we get in the car with her?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fine.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That would be easier for you, I would guess. Caleb? Caleb, leave the age thing alone. Just do it. Caleb! Caleb. Seriously, what
are you doing? Caleb, I`m serious. She`s lying. Please do it. I am going to throw up. I can`t stand her lying to you like this. Caleb, respond to me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`ll talk later.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What the actual -- she`s lying about my age. Just do it. Caleb, I`m about to cry. What is going on? Please don`t leave.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s out here with me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do something, please. Caleb? I`m trusting you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s no way she could fake a passport.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Caleb!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Baby, I love you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where are you? Come in the basement. I need to talk to you.
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GRACE: What they`re talking about, Solomon Jones joining me, morning host at WURD, as the girl, Silvonek is telling the older guy -- the army
boyfriend, 20 years old -- that she is of legal age, such as 18 years old. And the mom, who is now dead, found buried in this shallow grave under the
snow, multiple stab wounds, is saying, no, she`s not. She`s 13. She`s just about to turn 14, share`s her passport. And so Solomon, WURD, they are
texting back and forth while the mom is saying, look at her passport! Is that what happens, Solomon?
[20:50:00] SOLOMON JONES, MORNING HOST WURD: Yeah, that`s what happened. I mean, the two of them met at a concert when Jamie was 13 and Barnes was 20.
The soldier who was based at Fort Mead in Maryland began dating this middle-schooler, shortly after that. And when the mother discovered the
relationship, Jamie told her boyfriend she wanted her parents dead. And so, this whole thing, you know, develops where the mother is pushing for them
to be apart and the more the mother pushes for them to be apart, the more Jamie pushes for them to be together. It was just -- the whole thing
planned and plotted by this 13-year-old girl.
GRACE: Solomon, also -- It`s incredible and also, what we are learning now is a secret deal going down. The media was not alerted. Nobody knew where
this girl, who masterminded a brutal murder of her own mother, is getting a light deal and they totally -- they did not put it on a calendar. They
didn`t make it public. So, she could get a light deal and we wouldn`t find out about it.
You know, what`s also interesting, Matt Zarrell, is how they did this. The mom they -- she was trying to go along with them. He wanted to take the
girl to a concert. She said fine, I`ll drive you. They go out to eat. They go to the concert. They come back. Then they both attack the mom as she`s
in the car stabbing her horribly about the face and the neck and the torso. The daughter is there in the backseat while her mom is getting stabbed,
Matt Zarrell. And the mom actually begged for her life. We understand that she actually said, "take my daughter, just don`t kill me."
[20:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Prosecutors say Cheryl Silvonek told her 14-year-old daughter to stop dating 20-year-old Barnes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She threatened that throw me out of the house. I want her gone.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say Jamie lied to Barnes telling him she was 17.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She just goddamn lied to you about my age and now she`s pulling this? I love you. We can do this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Next time we`re out of sight.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Okay, baby, I love you. We can do this. We`ll just drive her car then, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, that leaves us as the suspects.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Then what will we do?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Five back and get mine, drive.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Damn, I thought we were going to six back. We can just drive hers, we will have to. I want her to shut her face and stop being
fake. She just goddamn lied to you about my age and now this?
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Sue Moss, Ryan Schwartz, Danny Cevallos. First to you Sue Moss, did you hear these texts? This was planned so far in
advance and this little girl is the mastermind.
MOSS: That`s right and her -- this woman`s only crime was trying to protect her daughter. Trying to protect her daughter from a 21-year-old apparently
sociopath. Now, the realty is at some point, this daughter is going to get out of jail and when she does, she`s going to be younger than when her
mother was brutally killed and I hope to heck she will remember this the rest of her life and what an absolute brutal crime she was a mastermind of.
GRACE: Well, the reality is Ryan Schwartz, that she`s going to get out of jail a lot sooner than we think because of a secret deal that went down
without the media finding out about it, but Ryan, what I`m asking about to you is the level of pre-planning. How can you get away from that? That`s
premeditated murder?
SCHWARTZ: Well, Nancy, we don`t know the full level or the full extent of the pre-planning that took place. We don`t know all the evidence. We don`t
know all the facts yet.
GRACE: Well, can`t you hear those texts, Danny Cevallos?
CEVALLOS: Let`s say, you know what Nancy, I`ll take a different (inaudible). Let`s say you`re right, this was a -- it sounds like a lot of
premeditation, sounds like a lot of planning but let`s not forget she`s a juvenile and we have a schizophrenic approach to juvenile law. We say
juveniles are different, they belong in a different court unless they do something really, really bad and in that case, we charge them like adults.
It doesn`t make sense.
GRACE: You know, Ben Levitan, telecommunications expert joininng us, we can even identify the time and the date these texts were sent.
BEN LEVITAN, TELECOMMUNICATIONS EXPERT: Nancy, we can also identify the location. They were apparently texting each other while they were both in
the car moments away from killing this mother. Nancy, this is a murder that was plotted out on text messages. I don`t know how any lawyers can get
around the fact that we have a transcript of their plotting, Nancy.
GRACE: You know, another thing, and Matt Zarrell, the reason she threatened to throw the daughter out is because she kept being found naked over and
over in the house with a grown man in the Army covered in tattoos. And tell the defense lawyers Matt Zarrell what happened after they murder the mom.
ZARRELL: So, after they murder the mom, they go to Walmart and get cleaning supplies and then they go back to the house where police find them naked in
bed.
GRACE: Again, okay, we`ll keep you updated as this goes on. Right now, a secret deal apparently going on without the media finding out about it.
And Happy Birthday to Tom Cartwright, retired lawyer who can still crack a contract and every Palm Sunday sings a solo in church Jerusalem. Here he is
with teacher and wife Mary.
Let`s stop and remember, American hero Colorado Deputy Sheriff Derek Geer, 40, killed in the line of duty. A Navy vet, served the law enforcement 15
years, committed to community and family. Widow Kate, two children. Derek Geer, American hero. Drew up next exclusive tomorrow at 9:00, parents of an
autistic teen behind bars for setting a fire that kills his brother. Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us. Nancy grace signing
off. I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp eastern but until then, good night friend.
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