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Nancy Grace
Kalamazoo Uber Driver Shootings; Police Raid Mansion of Former Subway Pitchman Jared; Hunting Down Gremlin`s Gang Members. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired February 22, 2016 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: Breaking news tonight. Cops say a mild-mannered father of two suddenly unleashes a barrage, dozens of deadly bullets,
gunning down eight innocent and defenseless victims during a horrific seven-hour rampage. Who is this father of two Uber driver turned accused
mass killer?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People were being gunned down in the streets allegedly by their Uber driver.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He started driving really erratically. We were running stop signs.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The alleged gunman, Jason Dalton`s, car while he was working as an Uber driver before allegedly opening fire.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) surprisingly calm because I was freaking out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Police raid the mansion of former Subway sandwich superstar pitchman Jared after Jared catapults the multi-million-dollar giant to the
stratosphere, cops finding recordings of Subway Jared setting up child sex, asking friends to let him see their children naked. Subway Jared pleads
guilty to crossing state lines for child sex.
But tonight, we learn after just two short months behind bars on child sex predator charges, the pervy pitchman, Subway Jared, makes the outrageous
demand, Let me out of jail!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The former Subway pitchman...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Remember Jared from Subway?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... convicted of child pornography and crossing state lines for sex with minors.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Was his prison sentence reduced?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His attorneys say his weight loss story positively impacted others.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What an inspiration.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That from YouTube, CBS and Potesky (ph) Productions.
Tonight, help us hunt down and apprehend known criminals, the Gremlins gang members, extremely violent, wanted for murder, armed robbery, witness
intimidation, drugs, extortion, brutal beatings, theft and more. Of course, the ACLU is fighting the message (ph).
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Gremlins street gang is responsible for hundreds of violent crimes, murders, armed robberies, witness intimidation, murders
(ph), drug trafficking, extortion and brutal beatings. You will be hunted. You will be trapped. And if you raise your weapon to a man like me, we`ll
return fire with superior fire.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. Cops say a mild-mannered father of two suddenly unleashes a barrage, dozens of deadly bullets, gunning down eight innocent
and defenseless victims. It was all during a horrific seven-hour rampage. Just who is this father of two Uber driver turned accused mass killer?
With me right now, CNN correspondent Ryan Young. First of all, let`s start at the beginning. Ryan, what happened?
RYAN YOUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So Nancy, what we know is just around 6:00 o`clock, this man showed up to an the apartment complex, shot the first
woman in front of her kids, shot her several times. She`s in critical condition right now. He then waited four hours, and what we believe he did
was he did those Uber rides during that time. Then around 10:00 o`clock, he showed up...
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, wait, wait, wait...
YOUNG: ... to a car dealership...
GRACE: ... wait, wait! Ryan! Ryan! Ryan Young, hold on. Ryan Young joining me on the scene, CNN correspondent, did you say he guns down a mom
in front of her children, then he goes and picks up a couple of Uber clients?
YOUNG: That`s what we believe right now, Nancy. That`s what it`s laying (ph) down in terms of the foundation of this case. They believe for
several hours, he was driving people around in between these shootings.
And that`s what has so many people around this area upset and scared about this case. It really shows kind of a break in time between that first
shooting at 6:00 o`clock, where he shot that mother several times in front of the kids, before going off at 10:00 o`clock and then shooting that
father and son at the car dealership.
GRACE: OK, so I`ve got the mother, then I`ve got the father and son. But there are eight innocent defenseless victims. Who are they? Take me
through it, starting with the mom gunned down in front of her children.
YOUNG: So we know that she was gunned down, and of course, she`s in critical condition. We know the father and son were then shot at that car
dealership, and we`re told the girlfriend to that son was actually at that same car dealership and she actually jumped into one of the cars to avoid
the gunfire.
We do know that police used surveillance video from that car dealership to get some suspect information. They know by watching that video, they tell
us, that they believe this was a deliberate attack because he even got out of his car and walked up and shot these two victims several times with a
semi-automatic handgun.
(CROSSTALK)
[20:05:05]GRACE: OK, hold on, Ryan. Ryan, you`re telling me something I don`t know. See, many people are assuming he`s in his car, his Uber car,
and he`s driving around just taking potshots. But this is much more calculated. He actually, Jason Dalton, gets out of the Uber car, walks up
on people and starts shooting them.
But isn`t it true, Ryan Young, that what we know as of tonight is he`s not connected to any of these people. So while they`re random shootings,
they`re very calculated at the same time.
YOUNG: That is the scary part. We do know right after that shooting of those two people, Nancy, he then gets back in his car, and 15 minutes
later, he shows up to a Cracker Barrel. A lot of people there enjoying their Saturday, two groups of women sitting in a car. He fires at them,
killing all four women, Nancy. They were all over the age of 60 years old.
And then we know the youngest victim, one of the youngest victims, a 14- year-old was shot.
GRACE: Oh!
YOUNG: She was initially pronounced dead, and now we know she is alive in critical condition...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: And all that was at the Cracker Barrel?
YOUNG: ... still struggling to save her life. All that was at the Cracker Barrel.
GRACE: Ryan, so he goes to a local Cracker Barrel, unleashes on some ladies. I understand these ladies get together a couple times a month and
they`ll all go out to dinner. So this was their big outing, going to Cracker Barrel. How did the 14-year-old girl get in the mix?
YOUNG: Well, that`s what we`re still trying to figure out. You know, police obviously keeping parts of this investigation close to the vest. We
do know -- I`m not sure if she was with that group or was nearby and was shot. But we do know, at some point, people thought she was dead, and then
apparently, she squeezed her mother`s hand.
This had to be terrifying, of course, for this entire community because when you think about this, Nancy, people know there was a man on the loose
for several hours, shooting at people, killing people, but they were having trouble finding him.
All this while he was still picking up Uber fares. In fact, we have already talked to somebody who was in the car with him while he was driving
erratically. And then another group of young men were in the car with him and asked him, Hey, are you the shooter that they`re looking for? And
apparently, he turned around and said to them, No, I`m just tired. I`ve been driving for the last seven hours. So all this happening with these
instances of...
GRACE: Ryan...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: You`re saying they asked him, Are you the shooter, are you the Uber shooter, and he goes, No, I`m just tired?
YOUNG: Just tired. He said he`d been driving for seven hours. And of course, Nancy, as you know, we drilled down on this. We went to the
neighborhood to try to ask anyone in that neighborhood, did they have any idea that this could be going on, that they would think that their neighbor
could be involved in this. They said no. He used to be an insurance salesman. He was a father of two. They would see him in the yard fixing
cars, that he`d be cutting grass. So this was something they were surprised about and they could not believe what was going on in this tight-
knit community.
GRACE: With me on the scene, CNN correspondent Ryan Young. Also with me, James Gemmell, news director at WJRW. Jim, it`s almost too much for me to
take in. They`re saying this guy -- he`s a father of two, apparently happily married. I think this is his one and only marriage, been in the
marriage for many years.
You just heard Ryan Young saying the neighbors that we talked to see him cutting the grass, working on his house. He was a real car buff. He had I
think three or four cars. He was always working on them, fine-tuning them. And everything seemed completely normal until right now.
And what`s really stumping me, James Gemmell, WJRW, is that he would go gun down, for instance, this mom in front of her children, then get back in the
car and take Uber customers, Jim.
JAMES GEMMELL, WJRW (via telephone): Well, it is pretty bizarre, and it`s not too far from where I`m at right now. And also, what happened was not
only that Indiana couple that was in the car with him after the shootings, but also some other people that he took to a bar in Kalamazoo, dropped them
off.
And a witness had a vehicle description. And that`s how the police arrested him around 12:40 in the morning Saturday. They picked him up
without incident, and he was arraigned in court this afternoon, 16 charges read against him...
GRACE: Whoa! Hold on just a moment!
GEMMELL: ... and bond denied. He was ask if he wanted to say anything, and he said he preferred to remain silent.
GRACE: Back to Ryan Young, joining us. Ryan, question. You stated that after some of the shootings, he would continue to pick up clients. And
isn`t it true that during one of these clients, he said that he had been getting bad reviews from some customers?
YOUNG: Well, you know, we`ve been trying to filter through all these comments, but yes, there were people who were posting on line and have even
said that they thought they needed to call the police after he sideswiped several cars and actually drove through someone`s front lawn.
[20:10:08]And somebody said they jumped out of the car at a stoplight because they wanted to get away from him. So you can understand how crazy
this was for the person who was in the back seat and had never met this man before.
GRACE: Having no idea what was going on. With me there on the scene, Ryan Young. So Ryan, how many victims in all?
YOUNG: Well, we know there are eight people shot, six dead. And all these names are starting to come out. And of course, when you talk about that
first court appearance, a lot of people waiting to see what the man looks like in court.
What we do know, the victims are spread out all across Kalamazoo. And people are coming forward to say, look, they`ve known several of those
people. One lady was an English teacher. One lady worked for Kellogg`s for quite some time, 22 years. All this is starting to come out in a
community where, quite honestly, people know each other.
So you know a lot of people are reaching out to each other, trying to say, Look, we`re here for you. And we saw that in a visual just last night...
GRACE: Right.
YOUNG: ... where we saw a lot of tears, a lot of people holding hands and singing songs.
GRACE: Oh! Ryan Young with me on the scene. Also with me right now, special guest, the county sheriff there in Kalamazoo, Richard Fuller II.
Sheriff, thank you so much for being with us. I`m trying to nail down what we know right now of the timeline. Do you mind walking us through when the
whole thing started and what happened as it progressed?
RICHARD FULLER iii, KALAMAZOO SHERIFF (via telephone): Well, I can tell you that there were three different incidents throughout the evening that
we know of and that we`ve been investigating.
The first one happened at about 10 minutes to 6:00, and that was in Richland township, at an apartment complex. That is where the suspect
fired upon a mother out with some of the children that she was in care of at that time. They were playing at the playground. They recognized that
there was something up with this vehicle, and the mom had sent the kids away, in fact, at one point, asked them to run. And the suspect opened
fire.
We were investigating that through the evening, and then ultimately, later in the evening, shortly after 10:00, reports came in that there was an
incident in the city of Kalamazoo. That was the father and the son at the car lot.
And then within probably 20 minutes later, there was another incident at the Cracker Barrel. And the Cracker Barrel was closed at the time, and
ultimately, it was a group of people just making a car exchange in the parking lot.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:16:19]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dalton allegedly hitting 80 miles an hour down West Main Avenue while sideswiping cars.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I said, You`re not the shooter, are you? And he said no.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dalton has no known criminal history, and an extensive background check is required of all Uber drivers.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He posted the picture on Facebook just so our friends wouldn`t get in the car with him if they happened to have to take an Uber
that night.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are live on the scene bringing you the latest with Ryan Young, CNN correspondent, and special guest, the sheriff in that jurisdiction,
Richard Fuller III.
Sheriff Fuller, what kind of gun was used?
FULLER: Well, the only thing I`ll be able to tell you is at this point that it was a handgun and...
GRACE: OK.
FULLER: ... we can`t go into any other details (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: Well, Ryan Young, CNN correspondent, are you telling me the guy drives around in his Uber car with a gun? And the reason I ask, Ryan, is
if he doesn`t -- and I don`t think Uber drivers normally carry guns. That means he would have had to bring it that day with specific intent.
YOUNG: Well, you know, that`s the question that everyone is asking. Of course, everyone is focused on the fact of what -- how did Uber do a
background check on this guy. And if you think about it, he never had a criminal record. He was allowed to have a gun. It was his legal right to
have one.
What we were told earlier in that first press conference is that it was a semi-automatic handgun that they were able to recover from him. We know
police were able to stop him after that last Uber ride, after he stopped near a bar, and we know he was captured without incident.
So he must have had that gun on him, from what we`ve been able to glean through what the investigators have been able to tell us. So still a lot
of questions about...
GRACE: Yes.
YOUNG: ... whether or not he was carrying this gun as those people were sitting in the back, especially the guy who asked him that question, who
said, Are you the killer? Could he have had the gun right there in his lap when the guy asked him that question? It`s something we all have to think
about.
GRACE: Well, I think he did, Ryan, because he shoots, then he pick up Uber clients, then he shoots again, then he picks up Uber clients and keeps
going. So while these people are in the back seat, the reality is their Uber driver has his fingertips on a gun.
To Jim Gemmell with WJRW -- a semi-automatic weapon. Do you know any more about the weapon, Jim?
GEMMELL: No, I don`t. That`s what they`re reporting. A semi-automatic pistol is what I heard was found in the vehicle, and they`re obviously
checking to see if that was the weapon used in these shootings.
GRACE: Yes. Justin Freiman, what can you tell me about a mystery call this Uber driver, a father of two, got just before the shooting started,
seemed to have touch off this mass shooting?
JUSTIN FREIMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right, Nancy. One of his passengers that he had just before these shootings began says that he had gotten a
call, and it was right after that call that he started driving erratically, actually going through stop signs, going over lawns, over medians. It got
to the point where when the car stopped, he jumps out and runs off.
GRACE: Everyone, joining me right now, special guest Sara Reynolds, who actually got a ride with Dalton, the alleged Uber driver shooter. Sara,
thank you for being with us.
SARA REYNOLDS, RODE WITH UBER DRIVER (via telephone): Thank you.
GRACE: Sara, question. When you were in the car with Dalton, did you have a conversation?
REYNOLDS: Yes, we did.
GRACE: What was it?
REYNOLDS: It was very normal. He asked us where we were going. It was my friend and myself, and we told him we were going to see the "Deadpool"
movie. And he said that he had seen the movie and he liked it -- you know, just small talk.
[20:20:00]And then he told us that he had just started doing Uber as a driver and that he had already gotten some bad reviews. And I asked him,
you know, what were the bad reviews about. And he said -- kind of mumbled under his breath, you know, just college kids that are drunk. And I kind
of sympathized with him, like, Oh, that`s too bad, you know.
But I could tell he didn`t really want to talk about it much. So we kind of changed the subject, and that was really it. He was very quiet the rest
of the time.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This morning, you know, when we were starting to piece it together, it still didn`t feel like it was real.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He had done all of these shootings before you ever got into his Uber car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right. Right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Does that freak you out?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. He didn`t seem like the type -- I mean, our interaction with him was very basic. It was, like, a five-minute ride.
And I said, You`re not the shooter, are you? And he said no. And I said, Are you sure? And he kind of just said, No, I`m just tired. I`ve been
driving for seven hours.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:25:09]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Alarm bells should have been going off in my head.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) and there was a woman laying on the ground right next to our truck.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He wouldn`t stop. He just kind of kept looking at me, like, Well, don`t you want to get a ride to your friend`s house? And I was
like, Well, yes, but I want to get there alive, you know?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: A seemingly normal, mild-mannered father of two and Uber driver unleashes a hail of deadly bullets on eight innocent victims. And in
between the shootings, he actually takes other Uber customers. How many times have you hailed a taxi, gotten a ride to the airport, used Uber?
Unleash the lawyers, Randy Kessler, Atlanta, Robin Ficker, Maryland. I mean, the reality is, Robin Ficker, that with technology -- even if nobody
can ID him, with technology, his Uber car -- I don`t know if you`ve ever used Uber, but you can look at your iPhone and you can see exactly where it
is. He`s going to be on the scene coincidentally every time there`s a shooting.
ROBIN FICKER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Stop trying to make this into a D.C. sniper-like case. No one has tied that gun into any of the bullets that
were fired. No one has said they got the license plate of the car. We`re in the car capital of the world in Michigan, where there are all kinds of
similar cars. They have the wrong guy.
GRACE: OK. You know, hold that thought, Randy Kessler. Just put a pin in it. With me right now, Larry Fishelson, telecommunications expert at Dyna
Link. Larry, explain to Robin Ficker why this circumstantial evidence is going to be so compelling with tracing his car.
LARRY FISHELSON, TELECOMMUNICATIONS EXPERT (via telephone): Nancy, this is going to be 100 percent compelling because everywhere he was is tracked
through the navigation software of Uber. So they know exactly every place he was. So it`s indisputable of where his car was.
GRACE: And you know, Kessler, back to you, Randy Kessler and Robin Ficker. Kessler, I mean, a jury might say, OK, you know, that`s just a coincidence
or it could be that he was at the scene of one crime. His car happened to be there.
But then when you start talking about two and then three and then four shooting crime scenes, that`s quite the coincidence, right? Lucky for the
defense that statistics cannot come into evidence, like, it`s one in a million or two million that he could be coincidentally on the scene of four
crime shooting scenes and not be involved.
RANDY KESSLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: There`s so much more information. I mean, when you were prosecuting cases, there was a phrase called "going
postal." People that were unhappy working or the Postal Service went crazy. They went postal. We don`t know what the defense will be, but
we`ve got to figure out what happened and why it happened. It`s way too early to rush to judgment.
GRACE: OK, you know what? I`m trying to pin you down on the hard circumstantial evidence. I understand that you don`t want to answer that.
Kirt Brown is joining me right now, everyone, who is the coach and teacher of a 17-year-old shooting victim, a teen. Kirt Brown, thank you for being
with us.
KIRT BROWN, COACH AND TEACHER OF TEEN VICTIM (via telephone): Thank you.
GRACE: Tell me about Tyler.
BROWN: Well, listen, talking to you from Mattawan, I mean, I feel like we`re the capital of sadness in Michigan right now. We lost a student, a
fellow student, a great kid, you know, father and son. And I mean, our hearts are just absolutely broken right now with this senseless violence.
GRACE: A father and a son. You know, Kirt Brown, just thinking, you know, my twins are 8 years old now. And you sink your whole life, you bet your
farm on your children, all your heart, all your love, all your energy, everything.
And to have somebody like this Uber driver come along, and in a moment ruin the whole thing, steal it, take it away, it`s -- it`s just almost too much
to take in! How is his family?
BROWN: I will tell you I have real minimal contact with the family. I mean, they are grieving. You know, I can`t even imagine, and I don`t want
to speak for them. The only thing I can tell you that`s halfway buoying us around here is our student population. And we`ve got people on site. The
administration`s been great in trying to care for our kids.
We`ve got kids in other school districts around that are usually our competitors, and they`re wearing blue and gold and they`re sending flowers
and they`re sending candy and their wishes and their thoughts and their prayers. So the community is pouring out. But I mean, it doesn`t replace
our loss. It`s just -- it`s terrible. It`s tragic.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:30:03] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Alarm bells should have been going off in my head.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pretty scary ordeal, especially to be so closely involved with it. Like, just happy I`m safe.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He introduced himself as a different name than what Jason was on -- that comes up for Uber. We got maybe a mile from my house,
he got a telephone call. And after that telephone call, he started driving really erratically. We were running stop signs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Police raid the mansion of former Subway sandwich superstar pitchman Jared. After Jared catapults the multi-million giant to the
stratosphere. Cops found recordings of Subway`s Jared setting up child sex. Asking friends if they would let him see their children naked.
[20:35:09] Jared pleads guilty to crossing state lines for child sex. But tonight, we learn that just after two short months behind bars on child sex
predator charges the purvey pitchman Subway Jared makes the outrageous demand, let me out of jail. Warning, the audio you`re about to hear from
CBS Peteski Productions, very disturbing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Former subway pitchman Jared Fogle serving more than 15 years for child porn and other charges.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, I don`t know, early middle school is probably one of the best. Just do everything and just, you know, do little touchy
feely things. You know, make them feel good.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He wants his prison sentence reduced now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Wants his prison sentence reduced? He already got a favor from the judge. She could have sentenced him up to 15 years behind bars. Instead, he
got much, much less. And after just two months behind bars he wants to get out of jail? Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JARED FOGLE, ACCUSED OF CHILD PORNOGRAPHY: Will you let me see your kids naked?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, yes.
FOGLE: Yes? Would that be OK?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sure. They`re very comfortable.
FOGLE: Good. How old are your kids again?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 10 and 11.
FOGLE: Yes? Little boy and a girl?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
FOGLE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
FOGLE: I would love to see them naked. We`re going to have so much fun, baby. We`re going to have so much -- you have no idea. You have no idea.
And I would fly all three of us. Clear across the world if we need to.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Really, like where?
FOGLE: To Thailand or wherever you want to go.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Well, where would we have to go -- the girls have to go away somewhere?
FOGLE: We could if we`re going to try to get some young kids with us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Alan Duke, editor-in-chief of Lead Stories.com. Alan, I can`t believe it. Couldn`t he have gotten a whooper of 50 years
behind bars? Instead what did he get?
ALAN DUKE, LEADSTORIES.COM EDITOR-IN-CHIEF: He got 12 and a half years, I think 188 months. And he got 15 years rather. He wanted 12 and a half
years.
GRACE: He got 15 and a half.
DUKE: Right, 15 and a half, 188 months.
GRACE: He wanted less. The judge gave him three more years than he was aiming for and he`s still throwing a fit. But the truth is she didn`t have
to take the recommendation of the prosecution or the defense. She could have sentenced him up to 50 years. Now, what`s his problem? What`s he
whining about?
DUKE: Well, first of all, those audio tapes that you heard, his lawyer is now arguing that was fantasy. He never intended to do anything with any
kids and he never did.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: What, put his face up.
DUKE: That he was fantasizing and that`s just how he got excited. So, they`re saying it wasn`t as bad as it sounds because it was...
GRACE: Wait. Wait. Alan. Hold on.
DUKE: Yes.
GRACE: Michael Christian, I have looked at the charges. They have him on recordings trying to set up child sex. They have receipts, they have video
surveillance of him coming in and out of the plaza hotel. OK? The plaza hotel, you know every Christmas I take Lucy and John David down there for
tea with Ella Weiss.
Well, upstairs is Subway Jared trying to have sex with a child. Not just having sex with a child. He`s bringing them across state lines to have sex
with them. That is what he put. Look at this, look at this list. He pled guilty to two counts.
There could have been much, much worse. In this, the first one is child pornography that he was getting and sending -- it`s disgusting -- of little
children being molested in every way you can imagine.
And number two, bringing children across state lines and having sex with them, particularly at the Plaza hotel. He`s pleaded guilty. Now explain to
me how he thinks that he can get out of jail after just two months. What? He misses his mansion?
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, as you say, Nancy, and as Alan says, his attorney says that this is fantasy. They said that he`s a
good guy. He`s helped people lose weight. He`s done good things. He doesn`t deserve any more than this.
GRACE: Wait. Help, Ashley Willcott, can you help me. Certified trial welfare law specialist. This guy, hey, pull me up a Jared commercial.
Everybody thinks they knew Jared. I thought I did. I`ve been wanting to be true. We see the Jared in the commercial but that`s not the real Jared,
Ashley. Could you explain what happens to child sex victims?
[20:40:01] ASHLEY WILLCOTT, CERTIFIED TRIAL WELFARE LAW SPECIALIST: And, please, Nancy, the weight loss has nothing at all to do with his sentence.
Because if anything that notoriety he had allowed to play on young victims. And he claims that he takes full responsibility for his actions.
If he really did take full responsibilities, he would serve his 15 years in jail and be happy he didn`t get the 50 that he could have, maybe should
have gotten instead.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Randy Kessler, Robin Ficker. Kessler, everybody, you`re seeing a Subway commercial from YouTube. You know, yes,
we all felt we needed Jared. We saw him started, what, 275, and waddle his way down to 170, or whatever.
Put the lawyers. There you go.
KESSLER: I`m here.
GRACE: Kessler, he claims he should get out of jail early after just two months of a 15-year sentence because he helped people lose weight.
KESSLER: That`s not what he is saying. He is saying that he cut a deal, he agreed to plead guilty because that`s what...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: That`s what he`s saying.
KESSLER: ... he`s trying to get the sentence that the prosecutors recommended. The judge gave him a harsh sentence that he thought he was
getting. He said I will plead guilty and I will get the sentence. That was the deal. It`s a necessary part of the process and he got taken advantage
of. He cut a deal...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Kessler, I`m going to roll on some of that audio recording. Liz, can you rock it up just for Kessler`s enjoyment. But, Randy, isn`t it true
that you have children, right?
KESSLER: Yes.
GRACE: How many do you have?
KESSLER: Look, that`s...
GRACE: No, no, just curious, how many do you have?
KESSLER: No, that`s irrelevant. Somebody did that, I want them to go to jail for life.
GRACE: OK. Yes.
KESSLER: For life.
GRACE: Yes. But in your capacity as a defense lawyer you`re saying, yes, he should get the lighter sentence.
KESSLER: No. As a defense -- as a defense lawyer we cut a deal with the prosecution. We have to know that we can tell our clients. The prosecution
is going to recommend something the judge will take that deal.
GRACE: There`s a range in federal court. You can`t pin a federal judge down on a sentence.
KESSLER: You`re right but it`s part of the sentence. If you want to avoid lengthy expensive trials...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: randy, did I hear you right? Did I hear you right? Did that just happen?
KESSLER: If we want expensive trials, then everyone is going to go to trial and no one is going to trust the plea bargain process, we`ll not have
any more pleas, everybody is going to have a trial.
GRACE: So, fine. Line up.
KESSLER Everybody is going to get a trial. Taxpayers are going to pay for it.
GRACE: Line up. Line up. You know, it`s very well. That was my philosophy. Get in line. I`m happy to put you on trial.
[20:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The former Subway pitchman.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Remember Jared from Subway?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Convicted of child pornography and crossing state lines for sex with minors.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wants his prison sentence reduced.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: What an inspiration, seriously? For those of you just joining us, we all felt we knew Subway Jared growing up, watching his struggle with
weight. Plus, you all know now, he was busted. Recordings of him setting up child sex, yes, Jared was dragged out of his multimillion dollar mansion
and the purvey pitchman went to jail.
But after just two months behind bars he`s whining, I want out. He`s actually approaching a federal judge for a sentence modification. It`s
happening. Now, this is the Jared we think we know. Look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Remember Jared from Subway? You think he`s inspired a lot of people.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What an inspiration, Subway. Remember, jared from Subway?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That is Subway commercials from YouTube. OK. That made me start going to Subway to start with. Now, this is the real Jared.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You must be crazy with your travels because you get to go into all of the different schools and all of the different things
like that.
I want you to -- I mean, I`m sure you have a lot of stories. I want you to tell me some of them so that, I don`t know, I just -- I like to --
FOGLE: Yes. Especially some of the middle schools, I love the middle schools and that, girls are starting to (muted) you know.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
FOGLE: Because you know how much I love to (muted). You know, I love huge (muted).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
FOGLE: You know, do little touchy feely things with them, you know, make them feel good. A little more touchy feely, and it`s that kind of stuff.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. OK.
FOGLE: I mean, that would be amazing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What?
FOGLE: Totally amazing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What age seems to be the easiest?
FOGLE: You know, I don`t know. Like you know early middle school, probably one of the best.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
FOGLE: You know, they don`t know if they`re coming or going. I can (muted) sixth or seventh grader (muted).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I`m holding my nose. I`m holding my nose because pitchman, purvey pitchman Subway`s Jared stinks. And he is asking a federal judge to let him
out. What you just saw was CBS and Peteski Productions video.
You know, to Dr. Ken Redcross, board certified internal medicine and concierge doctor. Dr. Redcross, in my experience prosecuting child
molestations, sometimes children, depending on what happened -- you`re seeing video from Still Vision in YouTube -- are permanently physically
damaged from child molestation. Is that true?
KEN REDCROSS, BOARD-CERTIFIED INTERNAL MEDICINE: Absolutely, Nancy. I mean, this is -- this is bigger than Jared who obviously is a sick
individual. You know, in the medical community we try to pull back emotionally but this is very difficult. He is talking about 15 years. We`re
talking kids who may be dealing with 50 years, 60 years, however long they are blessed to live to have to deal with this horror and this torment that
Jared put them through.
[20:50:00] GRACE: With me also, Dr. Sanam Hafeez, neuropsychologist. Doctor, can a pedophile be cured? Don`t give me some cockamamie
psychobabble, because I`ve tried, I`ve looked into treatment programs. I don`t believe it.
SANAM HAFEEZ, NEUROPSYCHOLOGIST: You know, most programs are in prison and they actually don`t show good results. And no, I agree with you, Nancy,
they really can`t be cured. Because here`s the thing, something`s really wrong with them.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Tonight, help us hunt down and apprehend the known Gremlin`s gang members. Extremely violent, wanted for murder, armed robberies, witness
intimidation, drugs, extortion, brutal beatings, theft, and more. And of course, the ACLU is fighting the message.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLAY HIGGINS, LOUSIANA STATE POLICE: The Gremlin street gang is responsible for hundreds of violent crimes. Murders, armed robberies,
witness intimidation, burglaries, drug trafficking, extortion, and brutal beatings.
[20:55:06] We`ve arrested 10 of these thugs and have warrants on seven more. Every one of these animals is most definitely armed and dangerous.
Darren Carter, Aaron Carter, Travis Cooper, Cody Guidry, Jerran Diggs, Kirkland Demouchet, and Jonathan Landry. We have felony warrants for your
arrest. You will be hunted, you will be trapped, and if you raise your weapon to a man like me, we`ll return fire with superior fire.
Darren Carter, you think men like these are afraid of an uneducated 125- pound punk like you, that`s never won a fair fight in your life and holds your gun sideways? Young man, I`ll meet you on silent ground anytime,
anywhere, light or heavy, makes no difference to me. You won`t walk away. Look at you!
Men like us, son, we do dumbbell presses with weights bigger than you. And the convicts in jail, most of those men are good people who just found
themselves crossed with the law. They`re not evil, and they don`t respect you or any punk like you. They`ll toss you around like a rag doll.
I encourage every citizen watching this to look into your own heart and find the American courage that conquers all evil. I implore you to listen
to this message and stand up, take back your streets, take back your country. Come forward with information about these heathens that have
terrorized your community.
And for those who would use this message as a way to create false racial division in our country, take a close look behind me. Standing next to
every cop is a leader of our black community. This is not about race. It`s about right versus wrong.
One last message to the Gremlins. You don`t like the things I`ve told you tonight? I got one thing to say. I`m easy to find. On behalf of the Saint
Landry`s Sheriff`s Office, the Louisiana State Police, the U.S. Marshals, and every cop and law-abiding citizen from sea to shining sea.
I`m Captain Clay Higgins, asking every patriot to stand up, share this video, and send a clear message to the world. We`re Americans, we would
rather die on our feet then live on our knees.
(END VIDEO CLIP)LEMON:
GRACE: Michelle Southern, assistant news director, LRN, what is wrong with the ACLU? What`s their problem? These guys are responsible for over 100
arrests. Just among the six remaining ones. Explain to me, what is wrong?
MICHELLE SOUTHERN, LRN ASSISTANT NEWS DIRECTOR: The ACLU has an issue with the fact that Captain Higgins says that these men have a bounty on their
head and they say that he essentially applies summary execution, which they say is not the way that we do things in this country.
Also, he refers to them as heathens, which they believe implies that they`re of a certain religion, because it is a religious term. And then, of
course, essentially, they believe that it does exacerbate the problem that is underlying between cops and the general public feeling that cops are the
bad guys and of course, family members are really livid as well.
GRACE: You know, Matt Zarrell, what family members are livid? Certainly, not the family members of the murder victims or the armed robbery victims.
I`m sure those families are not livid. Everybody, this tip line, 337-262- 5880. Matt?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, I can tell you that one mother of one of the gang members tells our affiliate, that my son is a human
being, not an animal. It was the word "animal," that she had a major issue with.
GRACE: Everyone, please, take a look at these thugs. Tip line 337-262- 5880. Let`s remember, American hero, North Dakota officer, Jason Moszer, just 33. Killed in the line of duty. Combat medic, National Guard, Fargo
police, organ donor, saving five lives. He loved camping, motorcycles, cooking, parents, Dave and Karen, brother, Brian. Sister, Michelle. Widow,
Rachel. Two children, Jason Moszer, American hero.
And good night tonight from Minnesota friend, star intern, Kristen. Isn`t she beautiful? Thanks to our guests, but especially to you for being with
us. Nancy Grace signing off. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8 o`clock sharp, Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
[21:00:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
