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Nancy Grace
Mystery House Fire Kills Three; Hulk Hogan in Court Over Sex Tape; Armed School Police Brutally Beating Young Boy. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired March 02, 2016 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Police investigating so-called inconsistencies from a, quote, "loving husband" after his wife and two
daughters burn dead in a mystery house fire where the quote, "sweet hubby" is the only one to escape.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: Gwinnett 911. What`s the location of your emergency?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: House on fire, the kids trapped inside!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I came down stairs, I opened the door, because I heard something, and then it kind of just -- I don`t know if it was an
explosion. I don`t know what happened.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And it`s literally burning down. Everybody`s trapped inside.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Hulk Hogan, six-time WWE heavyweight champion, known to fans as the "super destroyer," to Japanese fans as "Ichaban (ph)," and in court as
Terry Belea (ph) in the courtroom today, ready to tangle, dressed in solid black, a cross necklace and signature bandanna. Hulk Hogan declares war.
Over what? A bootlegged Hulk Hogan sex tape.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Captured during his performance in a secretly recorded sex tape.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hogan`s attorneys told a judge that Gawker leaked those transcripts with racial slurs to bomb Hogan`s public image.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They want you to use that as an excuse to let the public to see the very things that Mr. Belea (ph) fought to hard to keep
private. That`s scary.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Shocking video emerging of armed school police brutally beating a young boy, cursing the boy so badly, we had to bleep it out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We muted the sound so that you can`t hear the officer`s profanity, seeing him slap the young man across the face three
times. Then he kicks him as he walks runs away.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. Police investigating so-called inconsistencies from a, quote, "loving husband" after his wife and two daughters burn dead in a
mystery house fire, where the, quote, "sweet hubby" is the only one to escape.
Joining me right now, investigative reporter from CNN affiliate WGCL Karyn Greer. Karyn, you`ve been with us -- you`ve been on the story from the
beginning. The first thing I want you to do is have you join me in listening to these 911 calls. What can we learn?
Listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: Gwinnett 911. What`s the location of your emergency?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: House on fire. There`s kids trapped inside.
(CROSSTALK)
911 OPERATOR: OK, the house is on fire?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) is there.
911 OPERATOR: Your house is on fire?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Everybody`s trapped inside. They`re not responding.
911 OPERATOR: OK, do you see...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The whole first floor`s on fire.
911 OPERATOR: Do you see flames?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Baby, get away! Say what?
911 OPERATOR: Do you see flames?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, ma`am, they`re way above the house. I mean, it`s literally burning down. Everybody`s trapped inside.
911 OPERATOR: How many people?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Four at least.
911 OPERATOR: OK.
(CROSSTALK)
911 OPERATOR: The fire department is on the way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Honey, get away from there! You`re going to get hurt!
(CROSSTALK)
911 OPERATOR: Are the four people still inside the house?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, they`re all inside.
911 OPERATOR: Are flames on the roof?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, it`s everywhere!
911 OPERATOR: You said two houses or one?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One, but it`s going to catch on fire. The trees are catching on fire. Please! Please!
911 OPERATOR: They`re on the way, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Honey...
911 OPERATOR: You can`t get the people out?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, ma`am. The whole house is on fire!
911 OPERATOR: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just wait, Mindy (ph), wait! Don`t go near it!
911 OPERATOR: All right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hurry.
911 OPERATOR: Stay on the phone with me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please hurry.
911 OPERATOR: I understand. Stay on the phone with me, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please hurry. Oh, my God, they`re all dying! Please hurry!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: To Karyn Greer, investigative reporter with WGCL. Karyn, who was that? Whose voice was that, a neighbor or the husband?
KARYN GREER, WGCL CORRESPONDENT: That was the neighbor, Nancy, who was across the street watching this whole thing unfold. And that begins the
inconsistencies because he said he saw no one else leave that house.
GRACE: OK, what do you mean inconsistencies? With me, Karyn Greer, WGCL. I`m trying to analyze this because several 911 calls came in, as you know,
Karyn. And the husband has given several statements. We`re also going to analyze the timeline.
Karyn, why do you say the inconsistencies start right here?
GREER: Because the father said he opened the door, went out of the house, and the house exploded at that point and he couldn`t get back in. But the
neighbor across the street didn`t see the father outside of the house at that point. So there`s questions as to where was he when these flames were
engulfing the home.
[20:05:06]GRACE: OK, hold on. Scott Kimbler joining us from 106.7. Scott, where was he? Where does he say he was?
SCOTT KIMBLER, NEWSRADIO 106.7 (via telephone): He says he was outside trying to get in and trying to open the doors and smashing the glass, so he
would have -- it would seem that he would be apparent to people that are watching the house burn if he were outside doing these things that he said
(INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: OK, I`m going to go to you, Richard Meier, in just one moment, my fire and explosion investigator and analyst because this is a very fast-
burning fire. By the time 911 is called, it`s already on the roof?
And Karyn Greer, we believe, based on what the husband says -- Wow! OK, that went up in a minute, didn`t it. From what the husband says, the fire
starts downstairs in the den in an electric sofa -- an electric sofa, I take to mean the type that you plug in and it can recline or the feet can
go up and it can move however you want it to move.
Take a look at -- this is the sofa, a representation of the one that they had. And who you`re seeing right there is Kathy Patterson, Kayla (ph)
Patterson, just 12, and Madeleine (ph) Patterson, just 9 years old, killed along with the family dog.
So Karyn, you`re telling me that`s where the inconsistencies start. I want you to listen, Karyn, to this next 911 call. There`s the actual sofa right
there. It was barely five years old.
OK, let`s hear the 911.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: They`re not trying to get out?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don`t know what`s going on. We just can`t get in. But we know nobody`s come out of the house.
911 OPERATOR: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The whole thing`s on fire. I mean -- I mean...
911 OPERATOR: OK, we already have the police and the fire department on the way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, my God. Please hurry. Oh, my God. Please hurry. Please hurry.
911 OPERATOR: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, please hurry!
911 OPERATOR: That`s the fire call.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Baby, don`t go over there! Baby!
911 OPERATOR: Who is that, your wife? Is she trying to get in the house?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK, Karyn Greer, you have been out to the scene many times, as have we. Am I correct in that there was no way out on the back of the house?
There`s not a back door, there`s not a deck in the back, nothing, nothing going off the kitchen?
GREER: Did not appear to be, and that`s what we were trying to figure out, where they could have gotten out. He said that he came down the stairs,
opened the door, that`s when everything exploded. He called up to them to say everything was on fire, Get out, get out.
If you look at the front of that house, those windows, it appears, when we were there with fire investigators...
GRACE: Let`s see the front of the house, please.
GREER: ... is where the bedroom, where the mother was supposed to be sleeping with the children. He said they had mattresses on either side of
their bed, which was also very interesting in that they had two beautiful rooms, we know.
GRACE: So you`re saying, Karyn, that you find it interesting that the children had been brought into the room with the mother that night, and
they had mattresses on either side of the bed.
Can I see Karyn Greer, please?
Karyn, for instance, in our house -- and I`m projecting here. -- my children each have their own bed. I have my own bed with my husband. But
most nights, I end up falling asleep in between them. Now, at some point, I`ll get up, usually, but the fact that they`re sleeping in the room with
Mommy -- that doesn`t concern me, even though they have their own bedrooms.
But here`s my question. Were there always those two mattresses on -- beside her bed on the floor, or were they brought in that night?
Hey, Liz, if you could -- Liz and Charles -- let me see the front of that house again because I want to understand what Karyn Greer is telling me.
Below -- OK, prior to the fire, look at that on your monitor, Karyn. The fire -- was it directly beneath the mom`s bedroom, where the girls were on
the floor?
GREER: The fire was right where that big picture window is, and they were sleeping in the rooms where the roof kind of extends. So it would appear
that it might be a ledge for you to get out on if you needed to escape from those windows.
GRACE: So the fire, then, breaks out directly beneath where the mom and the children are. All right, here`s my next question. Let me understand
this.
Karyn, he says that he was upstairs putting -- this is one story that I heard, that he`s upstairs, he`s putting -- trying to get the girls to
sleep. He hears a popping. No smell, nothing like that before he hears a pop, that he then goes downstairs, everything is in flames. Is that your
understanding of what he said?
[20:10:22]GREER: He goes downstairs, opens the door, and then everything explodes, is what we understood him to say. And it was interesting because
in the interviews the very next morning, he was outside speaking to all the reporters. And in some of those interviews, he said, I hope they were
asleep when this happened. But in our interviews, he told us they were putting the children to bed, and he came downstairs when he heard the
noise.
GRACE: Liz, if you could, could you get the sound of the father speaking?
I want to go to Richard Meier. Hold on. Richard, listen to what he says. Let`s hear what he says.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I came downstairs, I opened the door because I heard something, and then it kind of just -- I don`t know if it was an explosion.
I don`t know what happened.
Me and my neighbors got a shovel, and we went and broke the back glass on the back door. And the heat was just so much, there`s no way we could get
back in.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: So, OK, that is explaining a lot to me. Rich Meier joining me with John A. Kennedy (ph) and Associates investigator. Rich, so there is a back
door. Did you hear that, Karyn? There is a back kitchen door, and it`s glass because they broke in the glass. I guarantee you there`s a big
window, a picture window back there that matches the front picture window.
So if the fire, Rich, is in that den, what would cause an electrical fire to spread across the entire bottom story that quickly? Because if they
could have come down those stairs and gone out the back way -- I mean, an electrical fire? And plus, Rich, isn`t it true electrical fires take a
long time? They don`t just suddenly -- your light switch is not going to suddenly catch on fire.
RICH MEIER, FIRE & EXPLOSION INVESTIGATOR AND ANALYST (via telephone): Nancy, what`s not clear to me at this point is whether he`s talking about
an interior door or an exterior door. If he`s talking about an interior door that separates the den from the rest of the house, there could be a
very substantial fire in that room by the time he hears the noise and goes down and opened the door. And then -- he could perceive it as an explosion
as the fire erupts from that room.
GRACE: So you`re saying if the den had been closed off by a closed door -- you know, maybe when he opened the door, that provided an air source, and
the whole thing went up in flames. That`s happened in my experience.
MEIER: Well, actually, it would already be in flames, but opening the door would provide more oxygen and allow both fuel and oxygen to mix. And it
could be easily perceived as an explosion at that point.
GRACE: But how could -- if that door is closed, how could that fire spread so rapidly across the whole bottom floor that they could not get down? I
mean, according to him, he had just come down the stairs. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I tried to go back inside and I couldn`t because it was too hot and it was burning me. So then my neighbor, George, tried to help.
He tried to help and we tried beating in the back glass, and -- and they burned to death. They`re dead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:17:18]911 OPERATOR: The house is on fire?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, everybody`s trapped inside. They`re not responding. The whole house is on fire! Oh, my God, they`re all dying.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, there -- it was the most incredible family ever!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Breaking news tonight. Police investigating so-called inconsistencies in the statement of a described "sweet hubby" after he is
the only one to escape a house fire. His wife, their two daughters and their family dog all dead in the fire.
Mike Duffy on the scene. Mike, what about the inconsistencies?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MIKE DUFFY NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: One of the reasons this case is under investigation is because of several inconsistencies made (ph) by the
father, the lone survivor in this case, Brent Patterson. According to authorities, Patterson said that the fire started around 10:00 or 10:30 in
the evening. However, we know that the first 911 call came in around 8:00, approximately two hours earlier.
Additionally, Patterson said that the entire family slept in the same room upstairs. But we know that the two girls had their own room, and this can
be seen in several Facebook pictures.
Finally, when a reporter asked Patterson what he thought about the case still being under investigation, Patterson denied it, saying that he knew
what caused the fire, that it was caused by a fire that started on a cord behind the couch.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Joining me out of Ft. Lauderdale, Florida, O.J. Simpson defense attorney Yale Galanter. Also with me out of Atlanta,
defense attorney Mindy Smith (ph). Welcome to both of you.
OK, Yale Galanter, how would he know or have any idea what started the fire?
YALE GALANTER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I mean, it`s his house. I mean, maybe he had notices. Maybe there was something wrong with the couch.
Maybe they had had a problem before.
But Nancy, what I want to talk to is there are no inconsistencies here. I mean, the neighbor verifies what he said to 911, that they were both trying
to break in the door. Why would he have some conspiratorial plan to kill his family...
GRACE: There`s more than one neighbor, Yale Galanter.
GALANTER: ... and then get his -- then get his neighbor with a shovel and start banging in the back door.
GRACE: Yes, I hear you. I agree with you.
GALANTER: That makes no sense.
GRACE: I agree with you.
GALANTER: And the other thing is, you know, they`re making a big deal about the 911 call. Why would someone who wants to kill their family call
911 before the event?
GRACE: I don`t think it was him. I don`t think it was him calling 911. That voice was not him.
GALANTER: But they`re making a deal about the timing here, and he`s early, not late.
GRACE: OK, to Mindy Smith...
[20:20:02]GALANTER: Normally the criminal is late calling the police, not early.
GRACE: Mindy Smith, what they`re saying, I believe -- and tell me if I`m wrong, Karyn Greer -- is that his timeline doesn`t make sense. That`s what
they`re saying, not that -- he didn`t make the 911 call to start with. Weigh in.
GREER: He did not make the 911 call to start with, and the timing -- the timeline is exactly what we`re talking about, Nancy. He said it was 10:30
when they were putting the kids to bed, 10:00 or 10:30. And this happened 8:30. Fire officials got there in seven minutes.
GRACE: Well, another issue -- back to Karyn Greer. If this -- now, I`ll tell you this much. If I had an electrical sofa, which I do not -- but if
I had one and I had the problems with it that Yale Galanter`s alluding to and the thing shot out a spark or it was smoldering or it smelled like a
fire, you know where that would be? Out on the street. That`s where that would be, OK? So I don`t buy in that there had been a problem with the
sofa.
So Karyn, how does he know -- if he opens the door, and boom, everything`s already on fire, there`s a big explosion, how does he know that it was the
sofa?
GREER: We don`t know that. The fireplace was right across. He says investigators told him it was the sofa.
GRACE: Ah.
GREER: They made sure to tell us they never said that.
GRACE: Put her back up. Whoa! Wait a minute, Missy! Karyn Greer, you`re saying that he, the husband, says it`s the sofa, that investigators told
him that, and investigators are saying, We never said that.
GREER: Fire officials are telling us, That is not what we said. Say we never said a cause of this fire.
GRACE: Liz, let me see the inside of the den again, please, if can you pull up that picture, because this is the sofa. The sofa I don`t think is
even quite five years old at the time this goes down.
All right, hold on. Let`s take a look at this. That must be the electrical sofa over there with the legs that -- well, it could be either
one. So that`s the picture window we see from the outside. That`s the dog that died in the fire. And around the corner to his left, I believe, are
the stairs. That`s the way I think that this picture is set up.
Is there another photo? OK, there we go. And there`s the fireplace Karyn Greer is talking about. So you`re getting an idea about the layout, the
layout in that room.
Also, another issue. Back to Scott Kimbler. Scott, if there had been smoldering, wouldn`t somebody have smelled it, Scott Kimbler? I mean, they
were all awake upstairs, according to him.
KIMBLER: You would think so. With the smoldering, it fills up the room very quickly. And he says that when he went down and he heard something,
so he went down. Although smoke rises, it`s lighter than air.
GRACE: Right.
KIMBLER: So if you`re going to have a fire downstairs that would ignite when you open a door, which is entirely possible, you would still have a
smoldering that would have reached the upper level beforehand, at least based on...
GRACE: I mean, this fire...
KIMBLER: ... other fires I`ve covered.
GRACE: ... really took off quickly. Again, this guy, Brent Patterson, is not a suspect. He has not been named a suspect. Many people on the fence.
Karyn, what can you tell me about a June 17, 2014, incident where a Department of Family and Children Services worker called 911?
GREER: We know from the report, Nancy, that a Department of Children and Family Services worker went to the home after some reports about concern
for the children`s welfare. When she got there, no one answered the door, so she called 911 to get an escort, to see if a police officer could be
there with her to try and make that call again. They got no one to answer the door then. But since then, we`ve filed for those 911 records.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
[20:28:00]911 OPERATOR: Are there four people still inside the house?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, they`re all inside.
911 OPERATOR: Are there flames on the roof?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, it`s everywhere!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Brent says the fire forced him out. He and neighbors tried to go back in.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He and my neighbors got a shovel and we went and broke the back glass on the back door. And the heat was just so much, there was
no way we could get back in.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Obviously, we`re going to learn the most from what the husband said. His wife, his two daughters, the family dog all perish in the fire,
seemingly a happy couple. What did he say?
Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The cause is the couch, the cord behind the couch caught on fire. And then it -- the fire got in the wall. You can see the
wall. The fire got in the wall. And then when I opened the door, it exploded. It`s not under investigation.
There`s nothing I could do. I tried everything I could. And it was about 10:00 or 10:30 at night. It was, like, 10:00 or 10:30, and we were all
upstairs and I heard a noise. So that`s what you -- when you hear a noise, you go check it out. And I came downstairs, and then I opened the door and
then (INAUDIBLE) exploded.
We were all upstairs. We were in bed. We all sleep in the same room up there, right up there. The girls have beds on -- mattresses on both sides
of our bed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Therein lies the crux of the question. If they were all awake upstairs and he runs down and manages to escape, why couldn`t they? That`s
the question.
Back to you, Karyn Greer, joining us on the story. I know that DFACS went there, family, children`s services, June 17, 2014. That`s well documented.
What can you tell me about the little girl getting a concussion? What was the story behind that, Kayla? It was not reported until the next day. And
also, was there a domestic relations call to the house?
GREER: Well, Nancy, first question. There was a call to 911 the day after, Brent Patterson saying that Kayla -- someone had run through a stop
sign in a black SUV, hit his daughter and left in a hit and run. The wife supposedly, Kathy, went, took her to the hospital, so did not have a chance
to call 911, according to this call, and they called the next day.
[20:30:04]
GRACE: Now, what about a domestic relations incident?
GREER: The 911 call there, just reveals that there was an incident of domestic violence. But because of HIPAA rules, they would not specify just
what that incident was.
GRACE: But to play devil`s advocate, wasn`t that back in 2010?
GREER: It was.
GRACE: That was five years ago.
GREER It was.
GRACE: So, you know, that`s -- kind of a -- a long time line right there. I don`t know if I could connect the two of those up. But, what`s concerning
me is really the forensics Karyn. How did this fire really start? And let me reiterate, this is still under investigation. The investigation is not
over. He has not been named a suspect.
[20:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Hulk Hogan, six-time heavyweight champion known to fans as the "Super Destroyer," to Japanese fans as "Ichiban," in court as Terry Bollea.
In the courtroom today, ready to tango. Dressed in solid black, a cross necklace and his signature bandana, Hulk Hogan declares war. But over what?
A bootleg Hulk Hogan sex tape.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Hulkster wearing all black, letting his attorneys do the heavy lifting.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hogan`s rant captured during his performance in a secretly recorded sex tape.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Gawker said, any number of sources had knowledge about Terry Bollea using racial slurs on the sex tapes, blame the emergency
hearing on desperation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: In the last hours, Roger Schulman, news director at "The Answer" WGUL, Hulk Hogan in a court of law.
Let me understand, where did this sex tape happen? I mean, how can he sue about a sex tape if he and his lover made the sex tape? You see, I don`t
believe Hulk Hogan made the sex tape. But, where did it come from? Do you know that, Roger?
ROGER SCHULMAN, A.M. 860 "THE ANSWER" WGUL: The story that sounds most credible is that his then dear friend who allowed him to utilize his wife
in this tape, took it himself. There was a male voice on the tape, and a lot of people believe that that was Bubba, the ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Wait, wait, wait. You know what? I can`t even tell who this is. To me, it`s a blonde guy with a bandana on his head. I can`t actually even
tell that this is him.
Liz, let`s take down the alleged sex tape quickly, please. I want to go to what Hulk Hogan said on Howard Stern. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HULK HOGAN, SIX-TIME HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION: But you`re still friends with Bubba, right? You`re very good friends?
HOWARD STERN, "THE HOWARD STERN RADIO SHOW" HOST: So, Bubba, I know can`t talk about this because he has a divorce agreement.
HOGAN: Well, I`m in a bad situation, too, because there`s civil and criminal litigation that is getting ready to go down immediately because of
this Gawker guy that released parts of the tape.
STERN: I saw it.
HOGAN: And at the end of the day, it`s -- well, not everybody knows, but in the state of Florida, it`s illegal to film sexually explicit content
without both party`s consent. And I had no idea there was a camera on.
(CROSSTALK)
STERN: But they`re probably going to go hey, he knew. Although, by the way ...
GRACE: That`s what I asked the other day when we were talking about that. I said, did he know there was a camera?
STERN: Well, Bubba knew, right? Because -- by the way, I`m so mad at Bubba, because the clarity of this video is terrible. Looks like I`m looking
through a night vision ...
HOGAN: Oh, God.
STERN: ... So if I`m going to watch a Hulk Hogan sex video ...
HOGAN: You know what, brother?
STERN: ... I want to see it.
HOGAN: I don`t know. You know, I`m not going to point a finger at anybody, because, you know, I just got to be not honest but open minded, yes.
Because I -- in my heart, I feel -- I have a gut instinct who did it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Who? Who? Who does he think did it? That`s Hulk Hogan on "Howard Stern Show" from Howard Stern Production on YouTube.
OK, the guy he`s talking about, the Gawker, it`s a web site.
Joining me right now is general counsel from the Gawker, it`s Heather Dietrick. Heather, thank you for being with us. The lawsuit that`s
happening right now is a huge lawsuit based on the Gawker publicizing this.
But I got a bigger question, beyond you guys publicizing it, is where did the thing came from? Because I really think that if Hulk Hogan had wanted
to produce his own sex tape, you would have at least been able to identify him as Stern was -- this is the first time I believe I`ve ever agreed with
Howard Stern, Lord help me. That`s very bad quality.
If he were producing it himself, it wouldn`t look like that. So, I don`t think Hulk Hogan produced his own sex tape. So, why did you guys put it out
there?
HEATHER DIETRICK, GAWKER MEDIA GENERAL COUNSEL AND PRESIDENT: A lot of questions in there, but I`ll address that last one. Before we published
this thing, and it just arrived on our doorstep, unmarked and unsolicited.
But before we published, it was part of a big national conversation. There were dozens of news reports out there, people speculating what`s going on
in this tape. Who is he with? People thinking maybe Bubba`s in it, and Bubba is trying to catch them in an affair.
And as it turns out, that`s not true. Bubba blessed the whole encounter and shared his wife. And Hogan was part of that conversation, too. There was a
time when he said he wouldn`t have sex with Heather. There was a time when he said he couldn`t remember who it was.
So Gawker is allowed to - is allowed to join in as well and say, hey, we have a new piece of information here. Clear up some of this misinformation.
Show a tiny bit of the tape, where you could see it. I - as said it`s kind of grainy, I think you said black and white footage, hardly a sex tape, but
we showed a few seconds of sex to say, OK ...
(CROSSTALK)
[20:40:00] GRACE: OK, hold on, Heather. Liz, please, I don`t want to see Hulk Hogan`s sex tape. I mean, if he`s telling the truth, and he didn`t
have anything to do with this, why would we perpetuate it by continuing to play it?
So please, you`ve got a million pictures of Hulk Hogan. Quit showing the tape.
OK, this is what I need to understand. Alan Duke joining me, editor-in- chief leadstories.com.
I hear what Heather is saying about Gawker putting it out there. That there`s this ongoing controversy and this somehow settles it. Now, I
disagree with that, but that`s irrelevant, what I think about it because I wouldn`t publish a sex tape.
But what I`m trying to get at is the original thing. If what Heather believes is true, that he was part of it, then he doesn`t have a leg to
stand on. So tell -- explain to me, if he wasn`t part of it, why would he spend the money on a lawsuit, in a courtroom, paying lawyers if he wasn`t
telling the truth? Because he is the one bringing this lawsuit against Gawker.
ALAN DUKE, LEADSTORIES.COM EDITOR-IN-CHIEF: Well, this thing has a long history going back to 2006, so maybe motives changed over time. It did
become an embarrassment and it has hurt his career, whereas in Hollywood, often a sex tape actually helps your career. We know some examples of that.
So, we will find out during this trial, I think. Was Hulk Hogan implicit in making this sex tape?
[20:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hogan`s rant captured during his performance in a secretly reported sex tape.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hogan`s attorneys told the judge that Gawker leaked those transcripts with racial slurs to bomb Hogan`s public image.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They want you to use that as an excuse to let the public see the very things that Mr. Bollea fought so hard to keep private. That`s
scary.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Now, to me, that sounds like a way to rationalize and explain away why you`re publishing somebody`s sex tape. But if it`s true, as Gawker says
it is that Hulk Hogan, the six-time wrestling heavyweight champion, was in on it, then he doesn`t have a leg to stand on.
Unleash the lawyers. Yale Galanter, Fort Lauderdale, Mindy Smith, Atlanta. Mindy, another issue is, whether the woman or you know what? What really
threw me off, Roger Schulman, is when you said, that he utilized the wife, like what, she`s a toaster oven?
OK, I`m going to let you stew on that while I go to Mindy and Galanter. Mindy, regardless of whether the wife was willing and she knew about it, or
the husband was willing and he knew about it, if Hulk Hogan didn`t know about it, that violates the law in Florida. It`s unconsensual recording.
Isn`t that true?
MINDY SMITH, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I would agree with that, but then on the other hand, Nancy, he was at someone else`s house. So the question is,
is there an expectation of privacy? Here he is at someone else`s house ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: But not pick her up. Pick her up. Mindy?
SMITH: Yes?
GRACE: The man is naked except for his bandana, having sex with his best friend`s wife in the bedroom with the door closed. What part of privacy do
you not get in that?
SMITH: He`s at someone else`s house, it`s not his house.
GRACE: Is that the bedroom? Yes.
SMITH: Yes.
GRACE: Is he naked? Yes.
SMITH: Someone else`s house.
GRACE: With somebody else`s wife. I would say ...
SMITH: And he`s gone on the media and talked about this and told everybody about it. So he`s thrusted himself ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: But that`s not ...
(CROSSTALK)
SMITH: into what`s known as the public ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: You can`t have a retroactive right to privacy. Either you had it at the time or you didn`t. Uh-oh, oh, oh, I`m in trouble now, because
Galanter`s actually shaking his head yes with me.
OK, Galanter, was there ever a police report filed for the criminal act of illegal taping?
YALE GALANTER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yeah, I don`t know and I don`t know whether there was an investigation.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: I don`t, either.
GALANTER: But I will tell you this, Nancy, if Hulk Hogan was in on this, they got nothing. And so if Gawker is correct and he was implicit, knew,
should have known, they don`t have anything.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Will you put him back up.
GALANTER: In terms of the ...
GRACE: He is married at the time. This would be such a torpedo for his wife to use in a divorce, why would he do that?
GALANTER: well, listen. People get crazy ideas about these sex tapes, and we`ve seen careers flourish and families flourish because of sex tapes. So,
he could have had in his idea ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: And why did you say ...
(CROSSTALK)
GALANTER: ... and if he made ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... act like you know ... (CROSSTALK)
GALANTER: ... the sex tape ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... about a sex tape.
(CROSSTALK)
GALANTER: ... and - and people didn`t know about it.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: I don`t know about it.
GALANTER: He may have had this fantasy of, you know, getting all kinds of money from this.
GRACE: OK. Don`t -- don`t - OK, OK. When you said fantasy, I assumed the worst. OK, Stacey Newman, is there or was there ever a police report filed
by Hulk Hogan for criminal illegal recording of him?
STACEY NEWMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Not that we know of, but remember, this was a very precarious situation because it was with someone else`s
wife and he didn`t want to bring ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Yup.
(CROSSTALK)
NEWMAN: ... attention ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Yup.
(CROSSTALK)
NEWMAN: ... to that, Nancy.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Hold on.
NEWMAN: ... So that`s why he went this route instead.
GRACE: OK, let me go back to you. Alan Duke, editor-in-chief, leadstories.com. Let`s just think this thing through. You got a $100
million lawsuit going on against Gawker. You notice, I`m sure, Alan Duke, that at one point didn`t he charge the woman he`s allegedly having sex
with, and then she`s dropped from the lawsuit?
DUKE: Yes. She was originally named in the lawsuit. They settled it. They made an agreement, and in fact, Bubba the Love Sponge, in part of the
agreement, signed over the copyright to the sex tape to Hulk Hogan to settle. And afterward, he then said he didn`t think that Hulk Hogan knew
about the camera.
[20:50:00] GRACE: Really? OK, so if that`s true, Heather Dietrick, general counsel for Gawker, you are in a whole heap of trouble if he did not know
about this taping, right?
DIETRICK: No, that is not right. What I was saying before is -- reporters, it is the job of the celebrity to build up their image however they would
like to build it up.
And it is the job of the journalist to say, "hey, wait a second. There is a gap between what this person said about themselves, what they put out there
and what`s really happened and what they have done in their life."
They don`t get to say, "wait a second. I want to control that story. You can only talk about me and the way I want you to talk about me."
GRACE: To Tiffany Sanders -- Dr. Tiffany Sanders, Psychologist. Isn`t this quite a charade though, going through with a lawsuit, $100 million lawsuit?
I mean, a sex tape is one thing. Those are a dime a dozen now. But a sex tape with your friend`s wife, that is a whole another scenario, right?
TIFFANY SANDERS, PSYCHOLOGIST: It is. But Nancy, you know, celebrities do have to save face and they do have to build their brand. So, he wants to,
you know, stay relevant. And let me put out this $100 million lawsuit. I am the big tough guy. I was a wrestler. Everyone knows me.
And as a result, he is trying to protect his brand and his image. And to be honest, I do not know if I would want him as a friend if he is going to
have sex with my partner. Not at all.
[20:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Shocking video emerging of armed school police brutally beating a young boy cursing the boy so badly. We had to bleep it out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARSHALL GOODWIN, BALTIMORE CITY SCHOOL CHIEF OF POLICE: (BEEP)
AVA-JOYE BURNETT, WJZ NEWS REPORTER: Profanity laced and slap after slap, even a kick. Video recorded at REACH! Partnership High has people outraged.
DAVID LUCAS, BALTIMORE RESIDENT: He`s lucky that wasn`t my little brother because I would be in jail right now. He had no right doing that.
BURNETT: WJZ has now learned that the chief of Baltimore City School Police, Marshall Goodwin, has been placed on administrative leave.
Baltimore City Schools says it didn`t even know about the video until WJZ called them asking for an explanation.
KARL PERRY, CHIEF OFFICER OF SCHOOLS: I was totally appalled at what I saw today.
BURNETT: School leaders told WJZ that the police officer, seen landing hit after hit, will not be in the building Wednesday morning. He`s been re-
assigned until the investigation is complete.
PERRY: I am a parent. And I am totally appalled at what I saw in that video. No matter what the circumstances are, I am totally appalled.
BURNETT: This is one of at least seven high schools in the city with a school police officer dedicated to the building. School officials say it`s
not because of violence in the facility, but it`s because of the sheer size of the building.
It`s not clear what led up to the very first slap or what happened after the camera stopped rolling. But this video, just seconds long, is making
people ask, how could this happen at a school?
GARY PAYNE, BALTIMORE RESIDENT: If it was my son, I would be highly upset asking questions. Want to know what happened prior to it. But still, nobody
deserves to get their hands put on them like that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK, I want to see the video itself. Liz, can I see the video of the beating? Let`s see that, please.
OK, Randy Corporon, talk show host with KLZ, what happened? I mean, why is this guy just placed on leave? Why is that -- is he getting paid after he
beats a boy in this manner in a school setting?
RANDY CORPORON, TALK SHOW HOST, KLZ-560 DENVER: It is a great question, Nancy. And from the reports that we have seen, these two officers are both
on administrative leave with pay along with the ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Whoa!
CORPORON: ... Chief Marshall.
GRACE: To Dr. Debbie, joining us, assistant professor, NYU School of Medicine. He is actually kicking the kid. What type of injury could that
result in?
DEVI NAMPIAPARAMPIL, NYU SCHOOL OF MEDICINE ASSISTANT PROFESSOR: Well you`re worried about traumatic injuries to the bones, the muscles. But
actually, I`m most worried about the head -- you know, the hits to the head, the slaps to the face because that can actually transmit force
through the brain and it will -- it can jostle the brain around inside the skull, possibly causing a concussion.
GRACE: And former school resource officer, Curtis Lavarello, Curtis, thank you for being with us. This is totally unacceptable. What is this?
CURTIS LAVARELLO, FORMER SCHOOL RESOURCE OFFICER: It is incredible to watch. You know, knowing the success of the school resource officer program
across the country.
When you watch something like this, not only is it troubling and appalling like you heard, it is absolutely disgusting to watch what you have just
seen. And I`m hoping that they`re going to take some swift action like we saw down in South Carolina after the incident down there with the officer.
GRACE: Well, Curtis, I am sick about this. So far, they have not released the name of the person still employed, suspended with pay. We`re on it.
Let`s honor an American hero right now. South Carolina Firefighters who saved the life of a choking woman. The 90-year-old going unconscious as
Piedmont Firefighters tried the Heimlich, forced to do CPR when she stops breathing. Emergency responders refusing to give up, working tirelessly
until she breathes again. Piedmont Firefighters, American heroes.
And a special happy birthday to our friend, Crazy Cajun, Michell, wife of Russell, mother of two, Cameron and Hannah, and a beautiful teacher. Happy
birthday, Michell!
Thanks to our guests, but especially to you for being with us. Nancy Grace, signing off. See you tomorrow night, 8 o`clock sharp, Eastern, and until
then, good night, friend.
[21:00:00]
END
