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Nancy Grace

O.J. Knife, Real or Hoax?; Hulk Hogan`s Battle Over Secret Sex Tape; Army Vet Guilty of First-Degree Manslaughter. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired March 07, 2016 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

PAT LALAMA, HLN HOST: After the bombshell miniseries "People Versus O.J. Simpson" hits the airwaves on FX network, has a crucial piece of evidence

emerged in the real-life double murder case, a mystery knife reportedly found at O.J. Simpson`s estate now being tested for DNA?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A shocking discovery in the murder case involving O.J. Simpson...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not guilty of the crime of murder...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A knife reportedly found on the football star`s former estate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Could the mystery knife used to brutally kill Simpson`s ex-wife, Nicole Brown Simpson, and her friend, Ronald Goldman, be found at

long last?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is being treated as we would all evidence.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Forensic testing is under way for blood, DNA, even fingerprints.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LALAMA: The six-time WWE champ known as "the hulkster," Hulk Hogan, in court. The battle over a bootleg secret sex tape goes in front of a jury.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I believed in my heart he was my best friend. It felt really crazy. And bubba walked in right behind and goes, OK, you guys, I`m

going to go to my office. Here`s a condom.

Tell me, did you have anything at all to do with this? And he kept saying, No, I didn`t. I never would do that to you. (INAUDIBLE) he kept saying

so. It almost, like, slapped me in the face (ph).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LALAMA: Police hone in on husband Army vet Skylar (INAUDIBLE) when his young wife, Danielle, is found shot to death in the back of the head,

sitting in front of her home computer. Tonight, he`s cleared of murder, but found guilty of manslaughter. Could he walk free in just a few years

for gunning down his own wife?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think somebody was shot (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Danielle was shot in the head with an AR-15 rifle.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The husband has said that she`s dead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My world just crumbled apart on that day. I immediately just was absolutely shattered.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Pat Lalama, in for Nancy Grace tonight. Thank you for joining us.

Has a crucial piece of evidence surfaced in the O.J. Simpson double murder case, a knife reportedly found at O.J. Simpson`s former estate now in the

hands of the LAPD?

We first go to my good friend and colleague Kyra Phillips. We covered this case from chase to verdict. Can you believe 22 years later, here we are

together again, talking about a knife. And you`ve got some info. What do you have?

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: It`s incredible, Pat. It`s like the gift that keeps on giving.

LALAMA: Absolutely.

PHILLIPS: I mean, I can`t believe we`re still talking about this and that the country, really, the world, is still interested and they`re paying

attention.

LALAMA: Absolutely.

PHILLIPS: And look, if this is true, if for some reason this is the knife -- I mean, you talk about an absolute bombshell that will have, I mean, the

world talking for weeks, for months on end.

But we`ve got to be careful with this because the timing is very interesting. There`s been a lot of critics out there saying, Come on, it`s

the FX series on O.J. Simpson that`s out right now, and all of a sudden, you know, this knife appears and now everyone`s breaking news and rolling

coverage.

I went back, Pat, and I called the same individuals you and I had to talk to on a daily basis, those directly involved, from the detectives to the

head of communications to forensics, and they tell me they are taking it seriously, that the LAPD is looking at this as a possible -- as the

possible knife that might have murdered two innocent people. And they`re doing all the forensics and everything they have to do to see if they can

find anything that`s credible.

LALAMA: Well, I think they have to take it seriously. Shoreen Maghame, also one of the six, only the six permanent reporters in the courtroom

during that trial. We also shared time and space together.

Where is that knife now, and what exactly is being done to it?

SHOREEN MAGHAME, FORMER REPORTER: Well, right now, the LAPD is looking at that knife. They are examining that knife. They had a press conference

just on Friday where they talked about it. And they`re doing -- they said that they`re going to be doing forensic testing on the knife, looking for

DNA, looking for hair samples.

But remember, that knife has been -- was recovered more than 10 years ago, 13 years ago. So what are the chances, really, of usable scientific

evidence coming from that? I imagine that they`re pretty slim.

LALAMA: Let`s hear a little bit from that news conference that happened at the end of the week last week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Give you a little more information about stories that have been going around regarding an alleged knife that may have been

recovered, possibly in connection to the O.J. Simpson case.

[20:05:00]So this is what we know. About -- within the last month, LAPD became aware of an item that was allegedly recovered by a citizen at the

Rockingham property, possibly during the demolition of the site. We need to vet that. We still don`t know if that`s an accurate account of how this

item came into our possession. The actual item is described as a knife.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LALAMA: And we are honored to have with us the lead detective on that case, the infamous O.J. Simpson case, Tom Lange, iconic figure. Mr. Lange,

thank you so much for being with us. I would love to have been in the room with you when you heard about this knife. Please tell me your initial

reaction.

TOM LANGE, FMR. LEAD DETECTIVE ON SIMPSON CASE (via telephone): Well, initially reaction is they just -- I honestly believe it`s probably another

red herring. We`ve had these things happen in the past.

However, we can`t take it as such. I mean, the LAPD is going to have to do a full examination of this thing and make sure that they don`t have any

blood or DNA on there, break the weapon down, check for trace evidence, any hair, prints, which I doubt, but they still have to check.

But more importantly, I think they can do a quick examination of the blade and see if it`s dimensionally consistent with the wounds in the victims.

Having...

LALAMA: That`ll be...

LANGE: ... don`t all of that, we still have a story here that seems to change from day to day. Now we`ve had two or three versions of what

happened. It`s beginning to sound like more of a hearsay situation. We don`t know who found this knife. We don`t know specifically where it was

found. We don`t know the circumstances. So I think we`re just up in the air, and that`s why everybody`s so interested. I think the LAPD needs to

perhaps get out in front of this just a little bit more than they have.

LALAMA: Interesting take. Michael Christian, NANCY GRACE producer, as you heard Detective Lange refer to, there`s lots of stories about lots of

knives over the years. What do we know about the kind of knife alleged to have been in recovery (ph) now -- alleged to be -- we know there is a knife

(INAUDIBLE) What do we know about that knife?

MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, the knife that killed Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman was apparently a long-bladed serrated

knife. And nobody is saying on the record, Pat, exactly what this new find is. But sources apparently have leaked to a couple of news organizations

that it`s some kind of folding knife, maybe more on par of a Swiss army knife or some kind of a knife like that that folds in on itself. The big

question will be how long it is, and is it serrated.

LALAMA: Well, let`s actually hear a description of that knife.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The medical examiner described Nicole Simpson`s death as a result of hemorrhaging.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As a lay term, she bled to death. Would that be accurate?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That would be an accurate statement.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And he demonstrated knife thrusts that might have been used on Simpson on Goldman. He did not use the murder weapon. It has

never been recovered, but he described the knife he believed was used.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... would be a six-inch-long blade, single-edge cutting blade, with a blunt edge up to one eighth inch in width and about three

fourths inch wide.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LALAMA: I want to get back to the actually recovery and the story behind this. Kyra Phillips, CNN, you know, the officer, the retired officer who

is alleged to have received this knife from a construction worker, says he immediately called the LAPD and said, Hey, I`ve got this knife, and they

said, You know what? Case over. We`re not interested.

I find that nearly impossible to believe. What do you say?

PHILLIPS: OK, that`s my first reaction, too. But Pat, if we look back at this entire situation, investigation, all the surprises that came about,

there was a lot of criticism about how the LAPD handled this.

Let`s not forget Karl Fung (ph), right, and how he just got decimated up there on the stand from mistakes that were -- that were made. So you know,

is it possible that this cop got this knife and called in, and like, Oh, he`s acquitted, doesn`t matter, go ahead, keep it, throw it in your

toolbox. And he was like, Oh, all right. I mean, it wouldn`t necessarily be out of the question.

LALAMA: Detective Lange, obviously, a lot of media are quick to cast aspersions on the work of LAPD. You men and woman did a thorough search of

that property, correct?

LANGE: Yes, we did. We had the academy class out there, actually, and we spent a couple of days actually covering the streets and the sewers and the

vacant lots and the trash cans all the way from Rockingham to Bundy. As far as Rockingham goes, we spent many, many hours there.

And don`t forget that Simpson was pressed for time. And I truly believe Simpson did, in fact, commit these murders. He was seen leaving the limo -

- or not the limo but his Bronco and driving right to the Rockingham gate, walking into the gate, walking and into the home. He was in there a short

period of time. He was observed by the limo driver who was sent there to pick him up and take him to LAX.

[20:10:14]We know that the glove, the bloody right-hand glove, was found behind Cato`s bungalow. We know that beyond the air-conditioner on the

bungalow, there were cobwebs. I believe that Simpson was education route to the rear of the bungalow area there to perhaps conceal evidence while he

was away in Chicago. There were cobwebs that prevented him from going any further. Once he ran into the air conditioner, I believe that he turned

around and came out, went back in the home and appeared a short time later.

There wasn`t a whole lot of time, in other words, to plant anything, to hide anything on the property. We know that...

LALAMA: Well, but...

LANGE: ... he was (INAUDIBLE) a small half-moon-shaped travel bag. We know that he took that with him to the airport and that Cato wanted to pick

it up and that Simpson prevented him from doing that. He was very guarded when it came to that little big.

He now take it out to LAX, where we had a witness observe Simpson exit the limo. When the red cap and the limo driver went inside, Simpson was seen

by a trash container emptying this bag and items from the bag into the trash container, and then grabbed the bag and went on inside.

I honestly believe that that is probably what happened to that knife, the shoes, the clothing and whatever else.

LALAMA: And so...

LANGE: As far as this situation is concerned, you`re always going to have people pointing fingers, making complaints, the police did that, the police

did that. We`re fairly used to that.

LALAMA: Yes, you are. Unfortunately, you are. And Shoreen Maghame, that witness never testified. That witness said that he saw at the airport O.J.

Simpson reaching into that bag just a few inches and stuffing things into the trash can. But correct, he was never called?

MAGHAME: That`s right. He was never called. And that was a source of some contention, and Tom may talk about it. But there were many witnesses

who were not called, and there was a lot of evidence that wasn`t brought forward.

We`re seeing videotape of the infamous car chase. That was also not called into evidence. The jury did not hear that. And the jury did not hear from

this witness who said, I saw O.J. Simpson playing around with something in his bag at the airport, at LAX, stuffing something into the trash can

before catching that flight to Chicago.

And I think many of us who covered the trial and Tom and the police believe that that knife was in there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[20:16:32]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It may have been the most crucial piece of evidence missing from one of the most remarkable criminal trials in

American history, the knife used to kill Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The medical examiner described the knife he believed was used.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It would be a six-inch-long blade, single-edge cutting blade, with a blunt edge up to one eighth inch in width and about

three fourths inch wide.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A shocking revelation, police say they`re now examining a knife allegedly found at the Rockingham estate where O.J. Simpson lived

at the time of the murders.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LALAMA: I`m Pat Lalama, in for Nancy Grace.

I want to go to Dr. Werner Spitz, forensic pathologist. We know you from the civil case. You testified intricately (ph) about the deaths of these

poor victims. What is this knife`s significance to you?

DR. WERNER U. SPITZ, forensic pathologist (via telephone): Well, it would appear that Ron Goldman had a wound on his right cheek that meets the

qualifications of a serrated knife. And a serrated knife, when used in a stabbing, cutting attack, when the knife is passed over the skin and the

serrations scratch the skin, they make parallel lines with the same...

LALAMA: But Dr. Spitz, not to be rude, sir, but the finding of this particular knife, what will be important? What would bring us to a new

level of understanding about the murders?

SPITZ: Well, what would be important is to examine the type of serrations that were on this knife, on this blade. The various knives, various

serrated knives, have different distances of the serration from each other. And if those meet the qualifications of the serrations on Ron Goldman`s

right cheek, then you may have the knife in question. So...

LALAMA: Joseph Scott Morgan, certified death investigator, professor of forensics, this knife -- what are the chances that there`s anything

valuable that could be gleamed after all this time?

JOSEPH SCOTT MORGAN, CERTIFIED DEATH INVESTIGATOR: I think that the chances are going to be remote, Pat. The problem with this is that so much

time has elapsed. This knife was allegedly -- according to what we`re hearing initially, was buried when it was initially found. At that point

and time, if the alleged times are correct, we`re talking about an instrument that`s been buried for up to three years before it was passed

over to another individual.

It`s been exposed to harsh environmental conditions, bacteria that had been eating away at anything that might be on there. The only way that they`re

going to be able to find something is that in the protected area, on the handle of the blade, if they can remove that protected area and look

beneath it and see if there`s any blood in there, maybe a stray hair might be contained.

[20:20:00]I think the chances that they`re going to find some kind of fingerprint, though, is going to be remote. I think that the DNA will also

be greatly degraded, as well.

LALAMA: Yale Galanter, we know you as a representative, at one time, of O.J. Simpson. Now, if you ask me, this is all a bunch of baloney based on

a big series that`s garnering a lot of attention. And I don`t know how it evolved, but I ain`t buying it. What about you?

YALE GALANTER, FMR. O.J. SIMPSON ATTORNEY: No, I`m not buying it, either. And the timing, Pat, is so suspect. I mean, this was turned over to the

police about four weeks ago, which just happens to coincide with the FX miniseries premier. I mean, and the whole idea that a traffic cop were to

hold this and somebody allegedly in the LAPD were to have said, The case is closed, keep it, it doesn`t matter -- listen, it just makes no sense. It`s

beyond real. I think the whole thing is fantasy.

And as Tom said earlier, you know, they`ve gotten other knives, they`ve gotten other pieces of evidence, and they`ve all turned out to be phony.

and I think, ultimately, this will turn out to be a hoax, also.

LALAMA: And yet we all hover like vultures, waiting for the next bite. That`s "American Crime Story" that we`re talking about, "The People Versus

O.J. Simpson" from FX network.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[20:25:23]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: During the trial, the fact that no knife had been found was a major setback for the prosecution.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not guilty of the crime of murder.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a double homicide that is still open and ongoing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police announced they have recently come into possession of a knife reportedly discovered on the Brentwood property where

Simpson once lived.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LALAMA: Pat Lalama, in for Nancy Grace.

You heard Kyra Phillips say it, the LAPD is taking this seriously, as well they should. I`d love to hear what the lawyers think about that, and we

have Parag Shah, defense attorney, author of "The Code," and Carissa Kranz, multi-state attorney.

Parag, let`s go to you first. It doesn`t matter. I mean, it would be shocking to say, Hey, yes, guess what? This is the knife after all these

years. But it would -- it doesn`t matter unless there`s some hope for some sort of federal indictment, which cannot happen.

PARAG SHAH, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you`re absolutely right. Double jeopardy attaches. But here`s the more interesting issue, whether you

could find any accomplice DNA on the -- on the -- on the evidence because, you know, there`s no statute of limitations for murder. And if you`re a

party to the crime, then you can be charged just as if you committed the murder. So the question is, are they looking for the right person`s DNA,

not just O.J.`s?

LALAMA: And what does that mean, Carissa? That means if they should find DNA of his best friend, where would that take us?

CARISSA KRANZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I mean, this all seems like it`s more made for a movie or a TV series, like you`re saying. The reality is, is he

was already acquitted. Double jeopardy has already attached. And there`s nothing to do with any new evidence at this point except for make a better

TV series. But it`s far-fetched, as you`ve been explaining throughout the show. It`s so far-fetched at this point.

LALAMA: Cheryl Arutt -- I hope I pronounced that correctly -- forensic psychologist. Why, oh, why after 22 years are we still so embroiled in all

of this?

CHERYL ARUTT, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Pat, you pronounced my name perfectly. Thank you so much.

LALAMA: Thank you.

ARUTT: After -- thank you -- 22 years may have gone by, but this was the trial of the century. This came about at a time when there were lots of

wounds, I think, in the public about Rodney King and about behavior of police officers against African-American people. And I think this was a

time when things were really charged, and there was an opportunity to want to kind of -- payback may have been a factor. There was celebrity. There

was power.

This was an icon that people really wanted to love and adore, and nobody wanted to believe that somebody like O.J. Simpson would be capable of these

kinds of murders. So this really captivated people back then.

And I think a relevant issue now that some people aren`t perhaps thinking about is that Nevada will have a parole hearing for O.J. Simpson and decide

whether he can be released or not. And if by chance this does proves to be the murder weapon, I do believe that they could look at that in considering

whether he`s a danger to society in releasing him for parole.

LALAMA: Yale Galanter, what do you think about that concept?

GALANTER: Well, on the parole comment, in Nevada, parole is something that`s given to inmates based on good behavior. All the reports from

Lovelock are that O.J.`s been a model prisoner, and we fully expect him to be released in 2017.

Whether this knife is tied to the crime or not, tied to the crime will have absolutely no effect on that. He`s going to be released. It`s based on

good behavior. And we fully expect that to occur.

[20:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LALAMA: I`m Pat LaLama in for Nancy Grace. Tonight, the battle over a secret sex tape featuring WWE champ, Hulk Hogan goes in front of a jury.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHANE VOGT, HULK HOGAN`S ATTORNEY: These guys posted secretly nonconsensual sex tape.

HULK HOGAN, SIX-TIME HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION: Bubba said, `Hey, man, come over to the house. Let`s talk.` You know, I was so desperate I went over there.

One thing led to another. I just let my guard down.

VOGT: That crossed the line, and they need to be held accountable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LALAMA: My friend Stacey Newman, producer from The "Nancy Grace" Show. Whenever you got a character named, wait, hold on, I just got to confirm,

Bubba "the Love Sponge" and Hulk Hogan, you know it`s going to be good. I hate to say that. I know this is also late, just fill us in. What happened

today?

STACEY NEWMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Pat, you are right on that. But, behind the scenes, these two were best friends and what happened was Bubba

the Love Sponge at that time was married to this woman named Heather. And at some point, we uncovered that this couple had an open marriage and the

wife wanted to have sex with Hulk Hogan.

Fast forward, they finally have sex in the bedroom of the house. It was recorded. And now, there`s $100 million trial around this tape and Hulk

Hogan saying his privacy was invaded and he just took the stand, Pat.

LALAMA: What did he have to say on the stand, Stacey?

[20:35:00] NEWMAN: Well, he`s saying that he had no idea that there were cameras in that bedroom. He thought this was a private moment and there was

an agreement between the three of him -- of the three of them, that he could have sex with his best friend`s wife and then a couple years later

now, the tape ends up being exposed on Gawker, and Hulk said he had no idea it was being recorded.

LALAMA: All right now, he`s claiming -- this is the age-old debate. Freedom of expression, First Amendment rights, versus invasion of privacy. Is that

really the crux of the argument between the two of them?

STACEY: It is. But also, he is claiming emotional distress. And there was another portion of this tape that appeared to show Hulk Hogan in a racist

rant that cost him what he says his career because the WWE severed ties with him, and he`s a megastar. So it also had an impact on this whole

career he`s built over decades.

LALAMA: Let`s actually hear some of that sound from the courtroom.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOGAN: It was kind of like a group hug, and then Heather just kind of started walking into the bedroom, pulling my hand. I walked with her. It

felt really crazy and Bubba walked in right behind us and goes, OK, you guys, I`m going to go to my office. Here`s a condom, while he handed me a

condom.

All of a sudden, it was so weird and so crazy. My gut was telling me that this was off. This is wrong. And from the feeling I had, I said, Bubba,

you`re not filming this, are you?

Then he just lashed into me, `What the hell is wrong with you? I`m your f- ing best friend. How dare you say that to me? I would never do that to you. It just kind of like froze me in my tracks. And that`s how I ended up

staying in that situation. I just -- everything was just so surreal. It just -- that`s how it was.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LALAMA: Meredyth Censullo, investigative reporter, I know the morality or lack thereof in some people`s mind, plays no role in this. But this is

before a jury. Will they look at this and say these people are all just trampy? I don`t want anything to do with this.

You know, they don`t feel sorry for anybody, and it`s not like Erin Andrews who`s going through something quite different. The ESPN, excuse me, FOX

reporter and "Dancing with the Stars" host. Isn`t it a different kind of scenario? People don`t seem to be as sympathetic when it comes to

celebrities who get themselves in these messes.

MEREDYTH CENSULLO, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Yes. First of all, that was all surveillance video and it was sort of shopped around to a number of

different sources prior to being published on the Gawker website.

And Gawker`s argument is well, Hulk Hogan has been on all of these media outlets actually talking about his sex life. He`s been on "Bubba the Love

Sponge`s Show" multiple times.

His sex life really no big secret, so the fact that he`s claiming an invasion of privacy, I don`t know may be a hard sell for a lot of these

jurors and you`ve got, at least in this Tampa area, two people who are very well known.

Hulk Hogan, of course and then locally, we`re here in Tampa, Bubba the "Love Sponge" is notorious in the Tampa Bay community.

LALAMA: How did -- how did this tape get out, to begin with? Now, it sounds a lot to me, I remember the Pamela Anderson debacle with Tommy Lee, and

they said, oh, surely had it all locked up.

We have no idea how it got out. Isn`t it the kind of same thing here that they`re saying any kind of knowledge about how it got out of its safe?

NEWMAN: Gawker is saying that they have no idea where this video came from. They say that they were delivered a DVD copy of this video. There has been

no compensation for the video.

So, they are not really giving us any idea of where it came from. There were screen captures of this video published on other sources before the

little excerpt was actually published.

There have been kind of rumors about where that video actually came from, but I don`t know if you want me to get into that but as far as the actual

source of the video, we don`t know for certain.

LALAMA: All right, so here is a question for the lawyers, Parag and Carissa, does he have a chance in "hades"(ph)? How about you Carissa?

KRANZ: You know, this is actually pretty interesting because he is claiming that he should have an expectation of privacy because he didn`t know he was

being taped.

But then there`s the legal issue of whether or not he should be entitled to privacy because he was engaging in what he thought was a private act but in

someone else`s home.

And arguably, you are not entitled to privacy in someone else`s home. It`s not his own home, so, you know, I don`t know where the law is going to come

out on this but, you know, his argument is interesting because he thinks he`s entitled to privacy. But hidden cameras are a common thing,

surveillance cameras are a common thing and arguably, he should have known.

[20:40:00] LALAMA: Well, let me just -- let me just wrap it real quickly. Parag, you know, what I`m wondering is, this is before a jury. Now, a lot

of times courts are in favor of media on these cases. Does it make a difference that it`s before regular human beings deciding this fate?

SHAH: Yes. The jury is going to look at this and say, this is ridiculous. I mean, he definitely volunteered and knew or he absolutely knew he was being

videotaped. Why else would he ask him, `Hey, you got those videos? Did you turn them off? Because I`m about to have sex with your wife.` Come on. Give

me a break. The jury -- this is -- this is so ridiculous. I don`t know what`s more ridiculous, this or the O.J. knife? I`m still debating.

LALAMA: Oh, my God. I know it works like a manna from heaven for reporters and (inaudible). Cheryl Arutt, forensic psychologist, why are we so

interested in people having sex on tape?

ARUTT: Because it`s ...

(CROSSTALK)

LALAMA: Tell the whole Kardashian empire.

ARUTT: Yes. Certainly, there are people who have gotten quite a bit of notoriety based upon their sex tapes and there are people who want their

sex tapes out there. But I really don`t get the sense that Hulk Hogan is one of them.

And you know performers need to sign releases before you can use footage of them in something. It`s one thing to talk about somebody having sex; it`s

another thing to show the video which is illegal in Florida to tape someone without their knowledge.

[20:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did Bubba Clem ever inform Mr. Bollea that the sexual encounter that you had with him had been filmed?

HEATHER CLEM, BUBBA THE "LOVE SPONGE`S" EX-WIFE: I`m not aware of any conversation.

HOGAN: Taken from (ph) Bubba`s was on the tape. Bubba went up and turned the camera off and Bubba told Heather, this is for our retirement, Heather.

And just I started violently shaking.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LALAMA: OK, let`s review. So we have a guy named Bubba the Love Sponge and he`s got a wife named Heather, and Heather had sex with Hulk Hogan. You got

all that? Make sure you tell your kids tonight, I`m sure they`ll be interested.

Stacey Newman, how -- how did this -- where does Heather play into all of this? I mean, is she complicit?

NEWMAN: Well, that was what the question was initially, was this a set up by Bubba using his wife to get to Hulk? But she is claiming she did not

have anything to do with the tape being released, and prior to this trial she entered a confidential settlement with Hulk. Now, she`s not saying a

word.

LALAMA: Hmm. Let`s hear sound that might give us some insight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOGAN: He knew everything. He knew what I was going through. I told him everything that was going on with her. He encouraged me, try to take her

back (ph) it will work out.

And it just got to the point where, you know, I was depressed, you know? I was just -- it was like a low point in my life that when Bubba said, `Hey,

man, come over to house.` You know, `Let`s talk.` You know, I was so desperate I went over there. One thing led to another. I just let my guard

down.

I mean, these people cared about me. I felt like I bottomed out. I felt like I just gave up. I just gave up, gave in, let my guard down and it just

happened.

LALAMA: Meredyth Censullo, investigative reporter, now, we understand that the jury has an option of looking at the tape. I mean, it seems to me,

maybe I`m wrong, that you kind of have to see the tape to understand or does it really matter?

CENSULLO: I don`t know. I mean, just a clip of that was actually broadcast on the website from Gawker was about a minute to a minute and a half. The

entire tape is about 30 minutes long. So, the video that`s in question is just a small portion of that, so, whether or not that`s important to see

the whole video, I don`t know.

The other aspect of this is a 4,000-word write up that actually detailed all 30 minutes. So, there are two pieces here that the jury will have

access to. The written documentation as well as the clip, whether or not it`s that small chunk or the large chunk will be seen in court once we get

to that point.

LALAMA: And Stacey Newman, back to you from the "Nancy Grace" Show, our favorite show. So, this tape, Hulk Hogan, you know, he doesn`t want this

out there. But the other side is saying, hey, he talks about sex all the time. Let`s talk about who the people are who put this out, Gawker. Just

give those of us who aren`t that familiar, what is Gawker and why is it important - why is this case important?

NEWMAN: I mean, Gawker just boils down to a gossip site. They put out all kind of news like this. They like to add these kind of video clips, they

are giving people what they want, they say.

Now, back to what you were saying, Hulk Hogan was all over the place talking about his sex life with his previous wife. He would talk about the

size of his package. He was on Howard Stern. He wrote about it inn autobiography, so Gawker is saying, we are just giving the public what they

want, related to Hulk being out there talking about his sex life. So, let`s show you Hulk Hogan`s sex life.

LALAMA: Parag and Carissa -- Parag and Carissa, does that have any merit? I mean, if he talks all about his sex life, he can basically do that all he

wants and not have to worry about whether someone is going to reveal a sex tape.

SHAH: Yeah. I mean, that`s a ridiculous argument. I mean, obviously that shouldn`t just get open season for all your constitutional rights to go out

the window just because, you know, you like to brag a little bit about your package.

[20:50:00] LALAMA: Right. And Carissa?

KRANZ: Yeah, but another thing we have to consider here is we have a panel of six jurors. So a judge might look at this and consider just the law and

where the law should come down between freedom of the press, First Amendment rights and right to privacy.

Jurors are going to take a motion into this, they`re going to take his testimony into consideration. And it is a little bit of a jump from talking

about sex to exposing a video where he thought he was entitled to privacy. You know, It will be interesting to see where jurors come down as opposed

to maybe where a judge would have thought they should come down.

LALAMA: And another -- not to get into too much legalese but a lot of this has to do with what`s considered newsworthy and these days unadulterated

crap is considered newsworthy, right Parag?

SHAH: That`s true. I mean, look, this is what people want to see. This is what people want. I mean, you know, in a time where reality T.V. is big,

people are looking for the next big thing. I mean, you know, we see it in politics and so, you know, this is -- this is where we are these days, so.

KRANZ: Obviously ...

LALAMA: Yes. Speaking of the (inaudible) -- go ahead.

KRANZ: Obviously it`s what people want to see because I believe that the video had about 7 million hits. So ...

SHAH: Wow.

KRANZ: ... the audience is asking for it.

LALAMA: Yes. Again -- again Cheryl Arutt, once again, people are interested and that`s just what you can say, the bar has been lowered if you want. But

it`s the reality of our world, correct?

ARUTT: Correct. But this is humiliating for Hulk Hogan, and I don`t think that we can get around that. And if the jury is able to really connect with

him as a human being who plays this Hulk Hogan character and get a sense of this being a vulnerable man in a tough time in his marriage, with people he

felt were his best friends, they may actually rule and understand and rule in a compassionate way for him.

[20:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LALAMA: Police hone in on husband, Army vet Skylar Nemetz when his young wife, Danielle, is found shot to death in the back of the head sitting in

front of the computer. Tonight, he`s cleared of murder but guilty of manslaughter. Could he walk free in just a few years?

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A wife accidently discharged a rifle and supposedly she is dead. I saw the husband walk out with blood.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was everything to me and because of my stupid mistake she died that day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LALAMA: Candace Trunzo, senior news editor, dailymail.com. What happened?

CANDACE TRUNZO, DAILYMAIL.COM SENIOR NEWS EDITOR: Well, Pat, it`s a sad story. And, you know, this Skylar Nemetz who was in the Army. He was away

on a routine mission, and he came back and he killed his wife. There`s no doubt about that.

He took an A-15 rifle and he shot her in the back of the head. His question was it was an accident but the jury ruled otherwise, but it was not first-

degree murder in this case. It was first-degree manslaughter.

LALAMA: Justin Freiman, Nancy Grace producer. There were lots of inconsistencies in this story. It seemed unfathomable that it wasn`t

planned.

JUSTIN FREIMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: That`s right. He actually told at least three stories. One where he said he shook the gun and it fired.

Another one saying that it fired when he placed it on his thigh and he might have been -- had a finger on the trigger and the third story was that

he shouldered the weapon and pulled the trigger.

LALAMA: And we have some special guests with us. Ralph Flick, I admire anyone who does the public service of being a juror. It`s not an easy job.

But I think a lot of people are surprised at the decision. Can you explain?

RALPH FLICK, JUROR: Well, sure. (Inaudible) wasn`t an easy job, that`s for sure. Well, to me, and I can only speak on my behalf, personally, you know,

the question was not whether it was an accident or not. The question was did the state prove beyond a reasonable doubt that it was intentional?

And so we had -- we ha very -- we spent a lot of time reading our instructions and a lot of time looking at the evidence. We looked at the

evidence all through, top to bottom in the jury room that`s why it took us so long. And the majority of the jurors just felt that the case for intent

had not been made beyond a reasonable doubt.

LALAMA: Well, you did your due diligence and we thank you for that. I do want to get to James Peltier, I hope I pronounced that properly. You`re a

friend and a neighbor of the victim. Your thoughts about the verdict?

JAMES PELTIER, FRIEND AND NEIGHBOR OF VICTIM: I`m completely destroyed that that`s what they came up with and it`s pretty sad.

LALAMA: You didn`t buy it? You didn`t buy that he didn`t mean to kill her?

PELTIER: Nope. Not a bit. Not at all. I believe the evidence we saw in the courtroom, you know, you can have people have different memories than other

people, different abilities to remember, have pieces of evidence and other facts. And I think that may have been some of the problem. Not quite sure

(ph) ...

(CROSSTALK)

LALAMA: Thank you. I hate to cut you off. I thank you so much for taking the time to be with us.

We remember American hero, Illinois Officer Scott Fitzgerald, 32, killed in the line of duty. He served South Jacksonville Police, the Winchester

Police and the Scott County Sheriffs. Remembered for his kindness, generosity and dedication to community. Also, served as a firefighter and

EMT. He leaves behind his parents and siblings. Scott Fitzgerald, an American hero.

Dr. Drew is coming up next. Thanks to our guests and to you at home for being with us. I`m Pat LaLama. Goodnight, everyone.

[21:00:00]

END