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Nancy Grace
Arson Investigation in Fatal House Fire Hubby Survived; Hulk Hogan Takes the Stand; Young Iowa Mother Drowns in Tub; Florida Police Searching for Suspect in Attempted Kidnapping. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired March 08, 2016 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RITA COSBY, HLN HOST: A mystery house fire leaves a wife and two daughters dead. The husband is the only one to survive. In a stunning turn of
events, we get our hands on a search warrant that reveals investigators looking at arson, all as a result of investigators claiming Brent Patterson
changes his story.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRENT PATTERSON, SURVIVED FIRE: There was nothing I could do. There -- I tried everything I could. And it was about 10:00 or 10:30 at night.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 10:00 or 10:30 at night. More than once, Brent Patterson had said that`s when the fire started, but he`s off by about two
hours. The first call to 911 was at 8:30.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: The six-time WWE champ known as "the hulkster" in court, the battle over a secret bootleg sex tape as Hulk Hogan takes the stand.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It wasn`t about Hulk Hogan, you know, making a sex tape. That`s not what happened. My problem is this whole videotape that
you guys put out that lives forever.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) Bubba comes back in the room and (INAUDIBLE) and Bubba says, I quote, If we ever did want to retire, all we
have to do is use this footage of him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: A young Iowa mother drowns in the master bathtub of the family home. It`s initially ruled an accident. But it is?
Good evening, everybody. I`m Rita Cosby, in for Nancy Grace tonight. Thank you so much for joining us.
We begin with a mysterious house fire leaving a mother and two young daughters dead. But somehow, the husband and father manages to escape. He
survives. Shocking new details tonight from a search warrant.
Let`s go immediately to Karyn Greer, investigative reporter for CNN affiliate WGCL. Karyn, you have been with this story from the very
beginning. Tell us about this breaking news with the search warrant.
KARYN GREER, WGCL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Rita, the search warrant really reveals what we`ve known for quite a while now, that investigators are
looking at this as an arson investigation, a criminal investigation, looking at some of the things that may have still been around that home
after that deadly fire.
And the list of those things quite long, looking for any kinds of journals, any kinds of incendiary devices, any type of flammable liquids, any pattern
where something may have been burned through the home to start a really massive fire, just some of the things that were in that list, as well as
information about if there was any possibility there were financial issues in this house because the arson investigator saying that is often one
reason that arsonists commit these types of fires, arsons, that there`s some type of financial problem behind the household (INAUDIBLE)
COSBY: No, Karyn, you and I have been covering things for a long time. They`re saying they believe it`s arson. Something is precipitating it.
What?
GREER: Absolutely. They don`t know, and that`s why that search warrant was actually carried out to see what could have happened, if there were any
signs of anything abnormal, unusual, what kinds of things they thought they could find in those journals. Maybe someone had gone on the computer even.
They took an iPad out of that home to see if anyone had researched fires, researched arson, to see types of things that could be done. So there are
a lot of things they were looking for. We do know what they did pull out of the house. So those things will be investigated in the next couple of
days.
COSBY: Michael Christian, of course, NANCY GRACE producer, the father -- there are some interesting things about comments he made to authorities.
Walk us through that, Michael.
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: He`s given several different stories, Rita, how exactly this fire happened. The first time he talked to
authorities, he said that he heard a noise, and so he went downstairs. They were all upstairs getting ready to go to bed. And he went downstairs
and he opened the front door because he saw fire and smoke coming from the front room. He opened the front door to vent the fire, the smoke, because
he thought it might help.
And then all of a sudden there was a huge eruption of fire. He tried to get back in the house, but he couldn`t. He went around to the back door,
but couldn`t get in.
That was the first version. The second version is that he went downstairs because he heard a noise, he saw the fire. He yelled at the family to get
out, his wife and the girls upstairs.
COSBY: So wait, Michael. Did he go up and try to get them at that point, or what did he do?
CHRISTIAN: Not according to that version. He says he yelled at them to leave, but then he went outside and waited for them to come out.
COSBY: Wait a minute. So Michael, he yelled -- the house is on fire. This is according to his second version, just to confirm this is right.
And then he yelled out, but he doesn`t go up and get them, and this is his family?
CHRISTIAN: Yes, that`s what the search warrant application says, that they never showed up outside where he wanted them to meet him. So he tried to
get back in the house, but the flames were too strong.
And then the third version is that he was awakened by a loud sound that he thought came from outside the front of the house. So he went downstairs.
He didn`t see any smoke or fire. He opened the front door to see what was going on. Once he got out of the house and couldn`t determine what the
noise had been, he turned around to go back in, and that`s when the fire exploded.
[20:05:17]COSBY: OK, so wait, three totally different versions. Let`s hear -- this is from Patterson himself because he has been talking up a
storm. Here you go.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PATTERSON: There was nothing I could do. I tried everything I could. And it was about 10:00 or 10:30 at night. It was, like, 10:00 or 10:30 at
night. We were all upstairs. And I heard a noise. So that`s what you -- when you hear a noise, you go check it out.
And I came downstairs and then I opened the door and then it, like, exploded. We were all upstairs. We were in bed. We all sleep in the same
room up there, right up there. The girls have beds on -- mattresses on both sides of our bed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: Let`s go to John Lemley, reporter, newsradio 106.7. John, wait a minute. We just even heard there three different versions. You heard from
Michael Christian three different versions. Very different accounts, don`t you think, John?
JOHN LEMLEY, NEWSRADIO 106.7 (via telephone): Absolutely, Rita. And one thing that is really odd is his differing stories about where the family
was when he first heard the popping sound downstairs, when he exited the house.
I find very unusual the story about the girls sharing the master bedroom with the parents because according to other reports, the two girls had
their own bedrooms.
COSBY: Yes, that is very strange. And again, at this point, I want to repeat he is not a suspect. No one has been charged. No one has been
targeted in this case, but certainly a lot of questions.
Michael Christian, also, the timing of the stories -- walk us through when he first told the first version, the second version, and now this third
version, Michael.
CHRISTIAN: The first version he apparently told the night of the fire, Rita. That was to some police officers. And then the second version was
later -- actually, I think have I that wrong. It wasn`t the night of the fire, but the first version was to fire inspectors. And then the second
version later that same night was to police. The third version, which again was to fire inspectors, I think happened three days after the fire.
COSBY: Different timing of when he says the fire occurred, Michael Christian, or they all occurred around the same time, according to him?
CHRISTIAN: Again, within a three-day period. That`s when he told. There was, as we just heard, the discrepancy about when this fire took place. He
originally said 10:00 or 10:30. We know that`s not true because the first 911 call came in at 8:30. That`s a big difference.
COSBY: That`s a big difference.
Karyn Greer, describe the layout of this house. Again, they`re upstairs, and again, we`re hearing different versions, but he`s claiming that they
were all in the master bedroom. I find that a little odd because at one point, they`re saying it happened around 8:30, 9:00. Then he`s claiming
it`s at 10:00. The kids are 12 and 9. It`s a little strange. They have their own bedroom. But describe the physical area of this home.
GREER: And as Nancy said to me earlier in this story, some parents do sleep in the room with their children. So I don`t want to discount that so
much as the timing and the inconsistencies.
But that house, Rita, the master bedroom is right over the stairs, right -- the big picture window there we understand is the master -- right next to
the master bedroom, actually. The master bedroom is along the ledge where you see the three windows, smaller windows there. We`re told that`s where
the master bedroom area is, and that he came out the door to the master, went down the stairs, looked, didn`t see any smoke, any fire, anything in
the living room area, where there`s also a fireplace. And there was an electrical couch that reclines that`s plugged into the wall.
He opened the door, is what he told us, the reporters on the scene. And once he did that, everything exploded, so -- and as we see in this
affidavit, in this search warrant, a couple of different stories were told to arson investigators, leading them to believe that the story may need to
be looked into a little more closely.
The other thing they mentioned was the pattern of burns. He had a burn on his wrist, the back of his calf, and some singed hair. But they thought
with the way...
COSBY: Wa-wa-wait, Karyn! Singed hair, problems with the leg, problems with the foot and the cast. And he`s claiming he went into a burning
house? Wait a minute.
GREER: Rita, that`s what`s is in this search warrant. That`s one of the reasons the investigators wanted it because they said that pattern of his
burns was not consistent with the type of fire that he explained or described or that they saw that engulfed this home.
COSBY: Let me go to Rich Meier. He`s a fire and explosion analyst. Rich, I know you look at the scene. But what is your sense from hearing that
they`re looking for accelerants? Why have they not been able to determine that yet?
RICH MEIER, FIRE AND EXPLOSION INVESTIGATOR AND ANALYST (via telephone): Based on what I`ve seen of the investigation so far, it`s not uncommon for
investigators to first look at things like fire pattern, witness statements, things of that nature, and then go back later, when other
things don`t add up, and then go back and do a search for accelerants and do chemical testing.
[20:10:05]COSBY: And how long does that whole process take, Mr. Meier?
MEIER: OH, it can take from a few days to a little longer. It depends on the lab that they`re sending it to and the backlog that they have.
COSBY: And typically, if it`s been a few days, do you think that they would be able to determine if there are accelerants? They also were
talking about the pattern of the fire. Walk us through how you can kind of tell how the fire started and if it started in one place, multiple places.
What type of things does an investigator look at?
MEIER: Well, the first thing we would look at would be the fire patterns, and that is the effects of the fire left behind -- you know, burn patterns
on wall, on furniture, things of that nature. And that would lead us to the origin of the fire.
Now, if you have a case where you have multiple origins of the fire, that would be one of the indicators that you should be looking for -- or there
may be a potential problem of an incendiary type fire.
After that, you would look for other things. You would be looking for accelerants, trailers. The burn injuries were mentioned. Are they
consistent with what the witness or the victim was saying? So there`s a lot of different things that we look at.
COSBY: And let`s go to Dr. William Morrone, forensic pathologist. Dr. Morrone, you`ve cover a lot of these cases. In terms of his injuries, are
you surprised, as we`re just hearing from Karyn Greer, that a guy who`s got his family inside the house -- it is burning, he`s aware of this, even look
at all these different versions that he`s saying -- one, he`s saying he tried to go. The other is saying he`s shouting. But he`s claiming he just
had a little bit of singed hair, burns on his face, and one foot and one -- you know, one leg.
Does that sound like a guy who rushed in for a fire? Again, not a suspect, but it`s an interesting point.
DR. WILLIAM MORRONE, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: It sounds like a guy who`s running away from a fire, not running into a fire. People going into the
fire usually lose hair all the way up their arms because they`re reaching for people.
And you do lose hair up here, but when the hair is only from behind you -- you know, the best thing you do when you`re in a fire, you make a wet
towel, you cover yourself, and the heat and the fire attack the towel. But this guy`s running out. That`s not going in to save anybody.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:16:21]911 OPERATOR: 911, what is the location of your emergency?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The house is on fire. There are kids trapped inside, two houses down.
911 OPERATOR: And the house is on fire?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Everybody`s trapped inside.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We now know that life inside the home at 1079 Punta Ridge (ph) was not always as idyllic as many friends and neighbors assumed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: And this is Rita Cosby, in for Nancy Grace.
Let`s go to the defense attorneys, Alex Sanchez and Troy Slaten. Alex Sanchez, you just heard from William Morrone, the forensic pathologist,
talking about the type of injuries somebody would have if they were running into a house, especially if their family were inside.
We`re talking about the wife and the two daughters that are inside, two young daughters (INAUDIBLE) He knows they`re up there, and yet very minor
injuries. Again, he is not a suspect. Right now, authorities are saying no one is a target. No one`s been charged.
But Alex, interesting points. Come on. There are some eyebrows that you got to go, Wait a minute. This doesn`t quite fit. There`s something
interesting here.
ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, if you`re trying to establish the guy, you know, maybe acted cowardly, OK. You know, you find him
guilty.
COSBY: No, what I`m trying to say, Alex, that his stories are inconsistent that same night!
SANCHEZ: Yes, but inconsistent statements do not amount to positive evidence which one could use in a criminal trial in order to find somebody
guilty. You know, you had a fire expert...
COSBY: But look, it`s enough -- it`s enough to get...
SANCHEZ: No...
COSBY: It`s enough to get a search warrant, Alex. Come on!
SANCHEZ: Oh, yes, but so what -- you know, what is a search warrant? We`re talking about evidence. Let me tell you...
COSBY: A search warrant is probable cause.
SANCHEZ: This case is over a month old. So how come in a month, they haven`t determined if there`s been accelerants or other forensic evidence
to link him some type of criminal activity?
COSBY: But Alex...
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: You are a smart defense attorney. Don`t you think there`s something interesting about a guy -- don`t you think you know if you were
in the house, not in the house? Don`t you think you know what time it happened?
SANCHEZ: No.
COSBY: There`s a lot of things that are very...
SANCHEZ: What I think is that...
COSBY: ... material points.
SANCHEZ: Yes, what I think is that when there`s a very traumatic event with three people of your family burned to death...
COSBY: Wouldn`t you be going in the house?
SANCHEZ: ... you may not be so clear...
COSBY: Alex...
SANCHEZ: ... about what happened on that particular day.
COSBY: Alex, but you know what? But let me -- let me just say for the record. Not only if my family, but if somebody I loved were in that house,
you`d see a little more than singed hair and a little bit of injuries on one foot.
SANCHEZ: But again...
COSBY: Did he just, like, dip his foot in and say, Oh, it`s too hot, like a bathtub?
SANCHEZ: You know, again, if you want to convict him for possibly cowardice behavior, go ahead. I`m interested in whether or not there`s
enough evidence to find him guilty in a court of law. I do not see that at the present time.
COSBY: Troy Slaten, give me some logic here. Go ahead.
TROY SLATEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: There`s no instructions on how somebody`s supposed to act when something horrific like this happens, Rita. He just
lost his wife and his two young daughters. So yes, he might be a little inconsistent with exactly what happened...
COSBY: A little inconsistent? Wait a minute, Troy...
SLATEN: ... after he`s been...
COSBY: Troy, be honest!
SLATEN: ... through something so traumatic.
COSBY: You`re a defense attorney. If he were your client, wouldn`t you say, Get your stories straight, buddy?
SLATEN: No, Rita. If he was my client, I`d tell him not to talk to reporters, not to talk to fire investigators...
COSBY: And by the way -- by the way...
SLATEN: ... not to talk to anybody.
COSBY: ... you bring up -- and Troy, you bring up a good point. He is talking up a storm. And I think that -- and clearly, these stories are
different every time he talks.
SLATEN: Yes. And you know, whenever you tell a story, it sometimes changes...
COSBY: But you know what...
SLATEN: ... especially when it`s something...
COSBY: Troy, we`re not talking about...
SLATEN: ... so traumatic.
RITA: ... that (INAUDIBLE) outside. We`re talking about if your family was inside. And even according to his own story, he`s saying, I yelled.
You would just yell if your house did that? Doesn`t that sound, like, a little odd behavior, given what`s happening, given the just intense moment?
He`s claimed the house is on fire. Hey, honey, come on down. Does that sound like a logical response?
SLATEN: Rita, odd behavior does not a criminal make. So just because he`s not acting the way we that we`d all hope and expect someone to act doesn`t
mean that he`s guilty of lighting his house on fire and killing his wife and children.
COSBY: Don`t you think, though, that that is odd behavior, Troy? Come on. Just answer that. Just give me an honest answer on that. Don`t you think
it`s odd behavior? It`s a little odd. The stories are different. You can understand...
[20:20:10]SLATEN: There`s a lot of things...
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: ... probable cause.
SLATEN: Rita, there`s a lot of things that are odd, including that his wife was apparently so drunken on so many occasions...
COSBY: Oh, wait a minute! Troy...
SLATEN: ... I hate to speak poorly of the wife...
COSBY: ... you`re going blame the wife?
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: Troy, you`re going to blame the wife?
SLATEN: DCFS opened up an investigation. The school administrators...
COSBY: Did the wife light the house on fire for the fun of it?
SLATEN: Maybe she fell asleep and left something dangerous happening that lit the house on fire. Her neighbors had to come and take her off the
couch and walk her to bed in front of her children because she was so...
COSBY: Blame the victim.
SLATEN: ... so drunk.
COSBY: Blame the victim. That`s unbelievable!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everybody`s trapped inside.
911 OPERATOR: How many people?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Four at least.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Four people still inside the home, according to this neighbor, not three. That statement, if accurate, would seem to be at odds
with the story told by survivor Brent Patterson, who has said there was no warning of a fire until he was trapped outside.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:25:10]COSBY: And I`m Rita Cosby here, in for Nancy Grace.
Let`s go to Karyn Greer, investigative reporter with WGCL. Karyn, there are some interesting things in terms of financials in his background and a
lawsuit that happened sort of around the same time.
GREER: Absolutely. The lawsuit -- we were able to obtain records for that -- was served to Kathy Patterson six days before that fatal fire from a
company that they had been doing business with for more than two years.
And the lawsuit alleged that Mr. Patterson had promised to pay on several occasions. He would talk to the owner, said, I will pay. I`ll send a
check. Check`s in the mail. And finally, after two-and-a-half years, she had had enough and she filed that lawsuit.
So sheriffs actually went to the home to serve him. He was not there. They served his wife. And that was, as we said, six days before that fire.
COSBY: Interesting. Let`s also -- as, you know, we were hearing in the earlier block what Troy Slaten was talking about, some of the physical
things going on with her, some of the drug issues. I want to play a little bit -- this is a 911 call, and this is tied to the Department of Family
Services because there were some weird things going on in the house. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. I`m calling from the Gwinnett County Department of Family and Children`s Services, and I`m trying to do a
welfare check on a family.
911 OPERATOR: OK.
(CROSSTALK)
911 OPERATOR: OK. You`re at the house now?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m at the house, and I need police officers because I`ve been knocking on the door and I can`t get anyone.
We have reports of possible alcohol abuse and the mother driving intoxicated with the children.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: And that was in June 2014.
Michael Christian, CNN producer, there are some weird things going on, and apparently, some medications that she and one of the daughters was taking.
Walk us through that because the father is saying maybe she was taking that that night, and that`s why she didn`t wake up and come out.
CHRISTIAN: That investigation, Rita, as you say, began in 2014. And we believe it started with the school that the girls attended, that someone at
the school was concerned that perhaps Kathy Patterson had a drinking issue, and that, specifically, she may have been driving with the girls while she
was intoxicated, or even driving with other students, as well.
There was an investigation. It went on for several months. It took a couple of months before the caseworkers were even able to speak to the
Pattersons, Brent and Kathy.
But ultimately, that investigation was closed out. I think they did believe that Mrs. Patterson had some sort of drinking issue, but they
determined that the children were not at risk, that the home situation was fine. And that fall, the girls went to a different school, not the school
that originally reported the issue.
COSBY: And Dr. William Morrone, forensic pathologist, would they be able to determine how much was in their system, even if the bodies were badly
charred, as it sounds that they were? Would they able to determine, if, indeed, they a regular dose, if it was an overdose, if it was given to
them?
Again, nobody charged at this point. But if there`s something nefarious, would they be able to tell even though there such was an extreme fire in
the house, Dr. Morrone?
MORRONE: Absolutely. What happens is the outside of the body chars, but there are two sample sites that blood is taken from and compared. One is
inside, usually thigh -- it`s a large vessel -- and the other is heart blood. And fluids and blood in those areas is protected.
[20:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSBY: I`m Rita Cosby, in for Nancy Grace tonight. Hulk Hogan`s $100 million battle over a secret sex tape takes center stage in court as the
WWE Champ known as "The Hulkster" takes the stand.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HULK HOGAN, SIX-TIME HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION: I was completely humiliated. Gawker had put some sex tape up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The tape.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The website, Gawker, hosting a secret video of him and his best friend`s wife.
HOGAN: Heather says she wants to see you naked. Heather wants to have sex with you. Heather wants to see the size of your penis.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He is suing the site for $100 million.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They say, this is news. This is like Kim Kardashian, Paris Hilton. It`s a sex tape and people have the right to know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: And let`s go straight to Brian Stelter, CNN senior media correspondent and analyst, and also host of "Reliable Sources." Brian, walk
us through again how we got to this place.
BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT AND ANALYST: This has been a long time coming, Rita.
COSBY: It sure has.
STELTER: A lot of people thought it would be settled. But Hulk Hogan is not settling. He wants to have this fight in court with Gawker. So he was
on the stand today being cross-examined.
And what really came through is that he claims this was devastating when the parts of this tape were published. This was recorded many, many years
ago. He was going through a divorce with his wife at the time.
His best friend invited him over. His best friend`s wife invited him into the bedroom. There was a recording of the behavior in bed. And then a long
time later, this recording surfaced.
So TMZ learned about it. TMZ wrote about it. Hulk Hogan, Terry Bollea, made jokes about the TMZ story, but he says what was different was that Gawker
actually published part of the videotape.
He says it`s one thing to have people write about you having a sex tape. It`s another to actually show the tape. Now, Gawker only showed a few
seconds of the actual acts. However, that was enough for this lawsuit to be filed. So now ...
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: And the other thing ...
STELTER: ... they are fighting it out in court.
COSBY: Brian, they also described Gawker, part of their defense, they`re saying, they`re referring to the story versus the tape. In other words ...
(CROSSTALK)
STELTER: Right.
COSBY: ... tried to emphasize that it was part of a story on ...
(CROSSTALK)
STELTER: Yes.
COSBY: ... sex tapes, even though it`s called "The Sex Tape" right?
[20:35:00] STELTER: Right. And the Gawker point of view here is they were telling a story about what it`s like to watch a celebrity sex tape. They
needed to show a little bit of the video, they say, in order to give viewers an idea of how it works. Plus Gawker says it showed proper
editorial restraint.
COSBY: By the way, after a few seconds, I think you know how it works, right?
STELTER: I think you`re right about that. It wasn`t very educational from what I recall. Now, the video was taken offline a long time ago, but the
story is online still. It`s actually kind of an amusing read. People can find it on gawker`s website.
But this is a very big deal for Gawker, you know. They say this is about the First Amendment, about press freedom. But Hulk Hogan and his lawyers
are saying, this is fundamentally about the right to privacy.
Yes, Hulk Hogan plays -- well Terry Bollea plays a character. He is an actor of sorts. He is a wrestler who plays Hulk Hogan. But what the
argument we`re hearing from the defense, the prosecution here is that at the end of the day, Terry Bollea is deserving of privacy and should be
allowed to do whatever he wants in a private bedroom.
COSBY: And that`s exactly the point. Let`s go to Stacey Newman, our producer as well. Stacey, today in court, Brian was hitting on the sort of
different, and I think that this is the big heart of the case.
He is saying Terry, the private citizen, is very different than the persona, Hulk. And he tried to really hit that home today.
STACEY NEWMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Yeah, well, Hulk specified that. He said listen, when I`m out on the street, I`m known as Hulk Hogan. I`m
playing a character, as Brian said.
But when I`m in my home, when I`m in a private setting such as where the sex tape was recorded ...
(CROSSTALK0
COSBY: And by the way, he talks pretty explicitly. Let me play a little bit. This is a little bit of where he -- the Hulk really talks about --
more than we want to know about the Hulk. Here we go.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOGAN: I remember when I was approached it was a phone call. And to the best of my recollection, Bubba and Heather were together in the car and
Bubba asked me on the phone (ph), Heather -- he called me hootie once in a while as a joke, because that was the name of his dog.
He was joking around, it was a friendly joke. And he would say, `Hey, Hootie, Heather says she wants to see you naked.` Or `Heather wants to have
sex with you.` Or `Heather wants to see the size of your penis.`
It started out like that. You know? Where it was kind of like joking around, but it was -- it caught me off guard, you know. It was very weird
because I had never been approached like that in all the time I knew him, you know.
And I`d been around him a lot in my environment. And I just was not -- it caught me off guard when they first approached me.
It was kind of like a group hug. And then Heather just kind of started walking to the bedroom, pulling my hand. And I walked with her. It felt
really crazy.
And bubba walked in right behind us and goes, `OK, you guys, I`m going to go to my office, and here is a condom.` Bubba handed me a condom. And it
was all of a sudden it was so weird and so crazy.
My gut was telling me that this was off. This is wrong. And like, from the -- from the feeling I had, `Bubba, you`re not filming this, are you?`
And he just lashed into me. `What the hell is wrong with you? I`m your f`ing best friend. How dare you say that to me? I would never do that to
you.` And it just kind of like froze me in my tracks. And that`s how I ended up staying in that situation. I just -- everything was just so
surreal. It just -- that`s how it was.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: And again, this is with his best friend`s wife in his best friend`s house. And according to him, he says here is the condom, go at it with my
wife.
Let`s go to Roger Schulman, news director of A.M. 860, "The Answer". What is the reaction from the jury? Are they kind of going, OK, well, he is
talking about sex here and there and having sex with his best friend`s wife that they`re sort of hazed by everything or did they seem to be able to
separate, this is a private citizen versus the persona. What is the reaction in court?
ROGER SCHULMAN, WGUL A.M. 860, "THE ANSWER" NEWS DIRECTOR: The reaction in court is they`re totally dumbfounded by this whole thing. I think that they
are kind of amazed because everyone knows Hulk Hogan in this area. It`s very hard not to know him. He is a larger-than-life figure who is out in
many public places. I think they`re just amazed at the whole situation.
COSBY: And Terry Lyles, Ph.D, Psychologist. Terry, when you hear of this, the other thing on the stand today, Hulk Hogan also said that he was
emotionally distressed. A publicist also who testified also said that he appeared to be a little off kilter.
Does that help him in his case? Because clearly, if he didn`t want the tape out, even if he talk about sex all over the place, where clearly seems he
did, that can make a distinction between the public and private side.
TERRY LYLES, PSYCHOLOGIST: Absolutely. And, you know, obviously, he is humiliated now that it`s out. And it`s been a period of time this passed
and you know, just as his own admission what he just said, you know, he is lured into this. He is confused. He is not sure.
But I think there is a line -- and I`m not an attorney as you know but there is a line between, you know, what a person can or cannot do and what
they choose to do. And, you know, he is humiliated now.
But there is also the indiscretion of what he did, which is immoral, but is not necessarily illegal. So, he is in this quandary of how does he keep his
persona and his self out there? And he wanted to go to court to fight it for a reason. I would assume to clear his name, because he is feeling the
heat and the weight of this even after all these years, which won`t go away quickly.
[20:40:00] COSBY: Brian Stelter, what is your reaction to this? Also as a media expert, what do you think of Gawker?
STELTER: Well, he said he is feeling the weight of this. I don`t know about that. I mean is this really bad for Hulk Hogan`s brand, or has this
actually in some ways possibly been good for his brand?
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: Good for him?
(CROSSTALK)
STELTER: They get to wonder that.
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: Good for him?
(CROSSTALK)
STELTER: We were talking about a professional wrestler.
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: It doesn`t sound like he wanted this. Again, I`m not -- I`m not defending him ...
(CROSSTALK)
STELTER: Right.
COSBY: ... but it doesn`t sound like he wanted it, Brian.
STELTER: He says he didn`t want it but then you know, he said he didn`t want this tape released. He said he didn`t know he was being recorded. Of
course, this all happened many years ago, and he is choosing to fight this legal battle against Gawker for $100 million.
He actually settled with his, maybe former best friend, a number of years ago for only $5,000. So a big change now to go after Gawker. The question
is whether an individual who is so famous, who is so public ...
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: But doesn`t he deserve some privacy, Brian? Doesn`t he deserve some privacy?
STELTER: You know, even when he is on the stand today, he seems to be dressed up like he is Hulk Hogan. He`s got the mustache. He`s got the
bandana. It`s almost like he is still playing his character, even in court today, even though he went to great lengths to say, no, I`m actually not
Hulk Hogan on the stand. I`m only Terry Bollea.
[20:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSBY: I`m Rita Cosby, in for Nancy Grace. A young Iowa mother drowns in the master bathtub of the family home. Her death is initially ruled an
accident, but is it?
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Alexander Fazzino tells police he was in the home with their three kids when he heard water running and went upstairs to the
bathroom where he found his wife facedown in the tub and called 911.
ALEXANDER FAZZINO, SUSPECT, EMILY FAZZINO`S HUSBAND: She`s purple.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She is purple? OK.
FAZZINO: She`s dead. Her tongue is sticking out.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.
FAZZINO: Oh!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right.
FAZZINO: Oh no!
(END AUDIO CLIP)
COSBY: Let`s go to Dave Mack, syndicated talk show host. Dave, walk us through what happened here.
DAVE MACK, SYNDICATED TALK SHOW HOST: All right. On the night of the death, we were dealing with seven complete days of a contentious
relationship, that it was just heading -- it was heading straight for a cliff. That night ...
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: How -- how contentious, Dave?
MACK: All right. Contentious enough that a week before, seven days before she died, she calls 911 claiming her husband is threatening to take his
kids and leave the state, and he is preventing her from her prescription medication.
Two days later she files for divorce. He leaves the next day, takes the kids out of state to his mother`s house. She has to get her lawyers and the
police to get him to even come back.
Earlier that night, the night she is found dead in the bathtub, she calls her father and tells him she is fearful. She is afraid for her life from
her husband. Everybody was concerned. It was the first time in seven days the two had been left alone ...
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: Wait, wait, wait, wait ...
(CROSSTALK)
MACK: ... two hours after her phone call.
COSBY: First night they`re left alone. Justin Freiman, CNN producer, well, there is a pattern of other people being at the house and now suddenly
they`re not there that night?
JUSTIN FREIMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: That`s right. They had people staying at the house for quite some time, in and out. And then this was the first
night that they did not have anybody over, it was just them and their kids.
COSBY: All right, Dave Mack, syndicated talk show host, tell us what happened that night. OK, no one is around, just them. Go ahead.
MACK: Right. He claims, now Alexander claims that she went upstairs to take a bath. He went down stairs with the kids to watch a movie. After 30
minutes, he claims he hears the water running. He goes upstairs, and that`s where he finds her floating facedown in the bathtub. That`s what he claims.
And again, Rita, there is so much here that is not believable. He claims that he had to lift her up out of the tub and got her on the floor and he
called 911.
But you know those bathroom caddies that we have that run across the bathtub?
COSBY: Yeah?
MACK: That thing was still in the middle of the tub, undisturbed. There is no water even on the floor where she is laying. The bathtub water is cold
to the touch, and none of the towels are wet.
COSBY: All right, hang on. Let me play -- this is the 911 call when he calls in. Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re going have paramedics and everybody on the way, OK?
FAZZINO: She is dead!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right.
FAZZINO: She is dead!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s dead? OK.
FAZZINO: She is purple.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She is purple? OK.
FAZZINO: She`s dead. Her tongue is sticking out.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Okay
FAZZINO: Oh!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right.
FAZZINO: Oh no! Oh my God!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m going to stay on the line with you, OK. Do you want to try CPR?
FAZZINO: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. All right. Hold on just a minute.
FAZZINO: (Inaudible)
(END AUDIO CLIP)
COSBY: He is either really distraught or that`s an academy award. Let`s go to Dr. Brad Randall, forensic pathologist. He testified for the
prosecution.
I know you didn`t do the autopsy, but you looked through all the documents. Dr. Randall, what are the inconsistencies? Dave Mack was just talking about
the caddie, that was interesting, in the bathtub. What are the other things that drew your attention here?
BRAD RANDALL, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: I think for the prosecution and for myself, the major concern was the findings from the autopsy. I think that
there was some initial attempts at explaining this by saying that maybe there was a fall, maybe there was seizure that had precipitated this death.
The problem from the autopsy was that there were contusions on the front, on the back, on the right and the left side of the head. And then there
were contusions or bruising along the side of the windpipe or the larynx and trachea.
That really had the pattern of someone that has been strangled. And I think the problem was it was really difficult to try to reconcile these injuries
with something other than a homicide manner of death.
COBSY: And Justin Freiman, Nancy Grace producer, we`re hearing about the caddie, you know, inside the bathtub. But also, what about water? Was there
water around? Were the towels wet? Because that could indicate that, you know, she was in the tub.
[20:50:00] FREIMAN: There wasn`t a lot of water around. The towels ...
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: There wasn`t?
FREIMAN: ... the towels were dry and they even tested this tub. It would not overflow. They ran the water. And everything worked fine. It would not
overflow. So we`re not sure where he heard this water from.
COSBY: Dr. William Morrone, Forensic Pathologist. Would you be able to tell if there was drowning? We just heard I thought was really interesting that
we`re hearing from Dr. Randall about where the bruises were.
Basically, all over her head. There was also someone who had testified basically indicating that it may have been strangulation. Can you tell the
difference between that and someone having seizures or from the drowning?
MORRONE: There was a very specific small set of sinuses deep in the center of the skull just at the back of the throat. When there is a real drowning,
you find water in those sinuses.
When you don`t have a real drowning or some -- there`s other signs of violence or trauma or assault, you begin to see bruises. People who just
drowned don`t bruise.
COSBY: And to tonight`s case alert, caught on video. Police searching for a suspect in the attempted kidnapping of a Florida school girl. The little
girl walking home when a man in a tan SUV grabs her.
The girl fights back, able to run to safety. The suspect is a white male, reddish-brown hair, in his late 40s or early 50s. Possibly driving a tan
Ford Explorer. Please call Broward Crime Stoppers if you have information at 954-493-8477.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He grabbed me around my waist and I grabbed my fingers around his. I was like pulling his wrist, like, away from each other and
that`s when, like, I guess, he gave up and I just kept running, he ran back to his car.
[20:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re going have paramedics and everybody on the way, OK?
FAZZINO: She is dead!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right.
FAZZINO: She is dead!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s dead? OK.
FAZZINO: She is purple.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She is purple? OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I found Emily Fazzino lying naked on the floor of the bathroom.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
COSBY: And I`m Rita Cosby, here in for Nancy Grace. Let`s go to Terry Lyles, Psychologist. You know, we hear this 911 call and he sounds so
distraught. Does it sound genuine to you or is that -- you know, everybody acts different?
LYLES: Well, everybody acts differently, obviously, when something happens. But I think what is interesting as I`m listening to the story and
researching this is, you know, the marks found on the body versus where she was.
You know, with anything, you know, you have to put the story with the reaction. The reaction sounds, you know, abnormal but that could be because
he`s distraught or because he`s acting, and it`s really hard to know unless we understand the motive. And you can`t know the motive and you can`t know
more of the facts. So, it sounds a little suspicious to me, if you ask me.
COSBY: Yes. It sure does to me, too. Let`s go to Justin Freiman. The defense is basically saying that she was having what, like alcohol
withdrawal? Walk us through what happened there.
FREIMAN: That`s right. They do say that and they even had her own mother come out and say she did go through some rehab at her mother`s home. So,
there is a bit of a history here of some kind of addiction issues.
COSBY: All right, let`s go to the defense attorneys, Alex Sanchez, Troy Slaten. Alex, she did have addiction issues even by her own family`s
accord. But yet, I keep going back to not a lot of water in the bathtub, the caddy is in place, the towels aren`t that wet. You know, it`s a little
odd.
SANCHEZ: Yes but you know, what you neglected to mention is, you did mention this that first of all, the initial assessment was an accident and
the first person that conducted the autopsy said the death was undetermined. They couldn`t determine that it was a homicide.
COSBY: Although ...
SANCHEZ: The defense called ...
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: ... although you just heard they were saying that the bruises -- isn`t it a little odd, Alex, that there is bruises all over her head, all
over the neck?
SANCHEZ: So what are they going to do, they`re going to call another witness to over rule the State`s witness that previously ...
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: You know it`s a little difficult ...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: ... determined that it was undetermined?
(CROSSTALK)
Cosby: ... Alex, when she`s in the bathtub -- it`s a little difficult when you`re in the bathtub and you may have been there for sometime?
SANCHEZ: And she also had a history of fainting spells. On top of that, there was no dotting in the eyes, which would be consistent with somebody
that was strangled. So, this case has -- it has to be headed for an acquittal.
COSBY: Troy Slaten, do you think it`s an acquittal? I mean, there`s some interesting questions and has clearly some interesting forensics,
especially the layout in the bathroom. I think that`s so -- I think that`s a tough one for him to get over.
SLATEN: Rita, there is just not reasonable doubt. There is a mountain of doubt in this case when the State`s own medical examiner ...
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: Yes, you mean the doubt to his story?
SLATEN: ... who did the autopsy ...
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: ... a doubt to his story, Troy?
SLATEN: ... not people who did it later. Said undetermined. Undetermined, meaning they can`t tell how this happened. So ...
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: If -- by the way ...
(CROSSTALK)
SLATEN: ... you have ...
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: ... you know ...
(CROSSTALK)
SLATEN: ... it might have been ...
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: ... you know that are a lot of times that there are convictions ,and I`m not saying that he should be convicted ,but you know there are a lot of
times with convictions with undetermined cause of death that is not a prerequisite.
SLATEN: That`s true. But in this case, she had a history of fainting. She has a history of alcohol problems. She may have been suffering delirium
tremens. Now, I don`t want you to ...
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: Yes. And by the way, she may ...
(CROSSTALK)
SLATEN: ... jump down my ...
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: ... she may have dried (ph) herself off, too.
(CROSSTALK)
SLATEN: ... blaming th4 victim.
COSBY: She may dried (ph) herself off and done that, too.
SLATEN: You know, this case says reasonable doubt.
COSBY: All right. Well, the case also raises lots of questions.
Everyone tonight, we remember American hero Marine Major Michael Martino, 32, from Fairfax, Virginia. On a second tour of duty. He was awarded the
Bronze Star and the Purple Heart and he loved rooting for the Washington Redskins. Parents, Robert and Sybil. Brother Robert; sister Lauri. Michael
Martino, a true American hero.
And Dr. Drew is up next with a surprising take on the Hulk Hogan case. You don`t want to miss that. Thanks to our guests and to all of you at home for
being with us tonight. I`m Rita Cosby, good night, everybody.
[21:00:00]
END
