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Nancy Grace
House Fire Survivor Has Criminal History; Will Legal Loophole Let Angel of Death Walk Free?; Catholic Priest Suspected in Murder of Irene Garza. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired March 10, 2016 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAT LALAMA, HLN HOST: A mystery house fire leaves a wife and two daughters dead. The husband is the only one to get out alive. As authorities
continue to investigate what caused the deadly fire, stunning new details are developing. A new report uncovers shocking new records about Brent
Patterson`s military history, including a court-martial that lands him in prison.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The scene of a triple fatal fire.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Husband and father, Brent, made it out alive.
BRENT PATTERSON, WIFE AND DAUGHTERS DIED IN FIRE: I tried to go back inside. It was too hot. It was burning me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He had a burn on his wrist, the back of his calf and some singed hair.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s totally burning down and everybody`s trapped inside!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators tell me that they`re looking at all angles in this case.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: A pediatric nurse known as the "angel of death," accused in the mysterious deaths of dozens of babies and toddlers, one unexplained death
after the next of innocent, tiny patients. In a stunning twist, is the killer nurse set to walk free from prison on a legal loophole?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Janine Jones (ph) is anything but a nice old lady. Look into her eyes, and you`ll find a heart filled with pure evil.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s the nurse that murdered my child.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The monster named Janine Jones was a beautician turned nurse in the pediatric intensive care unit. But strangely enough,
so many children died while Jones was on duty, people started calling it the death shift.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: That was video from CrimeWatchDaily.
And a Catholic priest suspected in the murder of a beauty queen turned school teacher. After the priest hears her confession, 25-year-old Irene
Garza (ph) found face down in a canal.
Good evening. I`m Pat Lalama from CrimeWatchDaily, in for Nancy Grace. Thanks for joining us tonight.
Authorities are investigating the cause of a mystery house fire that leaves a wife and two daughters dead. The husband is the only one to survive.
And this story is fast developing by the minute.
Going right out to Karyn Greer, investigative reporter with CNN affiliate WGCL. Karyn, I know you`ve been on the case from the beginning. There`s a
bombshell because the lone survivor, the father, has a history, a criminal history.
KARYN GREER, WGCL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Pat. Yes, we have been on this from the very beginning, looking into the past of the lone survivor, the father,
the husband, Brent Patterson. We have found in quite a few records, there were all kinds of things going on in that house before this fire. Also
found out that he had a criminal history spanning back to when he was 21, actually, Pat.
LALAMA: What exactly, Michael Christian, NANCY GRACE producer was he involved with back in the `80s?
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: He was actually court-martialed, according to "The Washington Post," Pat, when he was in the Navy. Again,
this was in the very early `80s. And he was apparently caught up in a big investigation into drug use in the Navy. He apparently was accused of
using and selling cocaine and marijuana. He ended up being convicted in this court-martial and was sentenced to two years of hard labor.
LALAMA: Well, let`s hear from him, right from that man.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... in your background and drug dealing convictions you have from years ago.
PATTERSON: That`s from when I was 20 years old, OK? I`m 54. Do we have to bring that up right now? I don`t want to talk anymore. That`s not
fair. That`s not right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Brent Patterson was court-martialed while stationed as a Navy corpsman in Maryland, convicted of drug trafficking and
conspiracy and sentenced to two years at hard labor. That was way back in 1983.
Brent Patterson`s career as a drug dealer didn`t end with the court- martial, which, in fact, occurred when he was 21. An on-line background check turns up court records of numerous other felony drug-trafficking
cases against Patterson. In most of those, he received probation.
But corrections records show he served 15 months in prison in North Carolina in 1993 and 1994. Patterson had moved to Georgia and obtained
employment with the Italian Oven restaurant group, where he`s been working ever since and is a general manager.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: Karyn Greer, back to you, investigative reporter. What kind of life has he been leading since that time?
GREER: Well, through all of our investigations from CBS 46, we found that things have been very quiet, from everything we can see. No problems, no
other drug convictions, no other criminal history were we able to find since that time.
[20:05:04]LALAMA: Michael Christian, NANCY GRACE producer, we do know now that even though -- and let`s make it clear Mr. Patterson is not a suspect
at this time. But there are so many questions, so much so that there is now a criminal investigation as to whether this case was arson. Tell us
about that.
CHRISTIAN: That`s right. Investigators -- through some search warrant documents that we have gotten, it has been confirmed that they are
investigating this case as a first degree arson. And basically, they say in the search warrant that they are doing that because of inconsistencies
in the stories told by this father.
LALAMA: Lisa Breneman, fire investigator, Robson Forensic, what exactly will those investigators be honing in on to try to find proof that this
was, in fact, a crime.
LISA BRENEMAN, FIRE INVESTIGATOR, ROBSON FORENSIC, INC. (via telephone): Some things they`re going to look for is just to study the burn patterns
and see if they make sense with the story behind the fire, behind the witness statement, and see if the timeline makes sense. They`re going to
go in there and they`re going to look for what we call a floor pattern, to see if an ignitable liquid has been poured on the floor or on a surface, on
a piece of furniture.
Another thing that we would commonly look for is something called a trailer. And a trailer is a combustible material that`s used to lead the
fire (INAUDIBLE) up a stairway, into another room. So those are some preliminary things that they`re going to want to start to look for. And if
they find those items, they can then take samples to test for ignitable liquids.
LALAMA: Karyn Greer, it was mentioned the inconsistent stories. Tell our viewers how those stories were inconsistent. My understanding is he`s got
three different ones.
GREER: Well, they started the night right after -- the morning right after the fire, when all the reporters were out on the scene, and we were told
how he ended up outside without his family.
One of the first stories we heard was that they were getting the kids ready for bed. He and his wife were getting the kids ready for bed. He heard a
sound, went downstairs, and he opened the door and everything exploded.
Another one we heard was that everyone was asleep and they heard a noise, he went downstairs, saw the fire, went out, opened the door to try and air
it out some, seeing the smoke and the fire in the room. And that`s when everything exploded.
So we`ve had a couple of different stories, and that`s what investigators noticed, that was not making sense. And it -- you know, that and his
injuries did not add up to his accounts of how this fatal fire started, a lot of questions about, you know, the timing. That was another issue we
had. He said it happened at 8:30. It was actually -- he said it was 10:30, it was actually 8:30, so a two-hour timespan.
And a lot of people say, you know, you could mess up and not get the right time. You`re in a traumatic situation. But those are just things that
investigators are looking at.
And also, I want to just add, in the search warrant, what they were also looking for, financial distress, any issues...
LALAMA: Right.
GREER: ... that may have come up in this case.
LALAMA: Yes, that`s a good point. I want to get to that.
But first, I want to go to Bobbie Scholley, who is a retired Navy captain. Now, we know that Mr. Patterson was in the Navy. I`m curious, do you get
fire training? Would a veteran of the Navy know what to do in case of a fire because of his military history?
BOBBIE SCHOLLEY, RETIRED NAVY CAPTAIN (via telephone): Yes, that`s absolutely correct. In the Navy, we do train all of our sailors in fire-
fighting skills on board ship. As you can imagine, when we`re on ships out at sea, we don`t have the luxury of calling in the fire department when
we`re in the middle of the ocean.
So it is critical for the Navy to have every single sailor have basic fire- fighting training. So we start in boot camp with basic fire-fighting training for every single sailor that comes into the Navy initially.
LALAMA: So I want to go to Joseph Scott Morgan, certified death investigator. What might we be able to glean in the aftermath of this fire
regarding how it happened in terms of the bodies themselves?
JOSEPH SCOTT MORGAN, CERTIFIED DEATH INVESTIGATOR: Well, Pat, the most critical issue here is to find out if there was, in fact, debris or soot in
the airway. This is going to give us an indication if this family was, in fact, alive while the fire was enveloping the rest of the house. An
absence of these breathable particulate matter is going to be an indication that they were unconscious and not breathing during the midst of the fire.
And this is going to be a huge linchpin in this case.
LALAMA: Jeff Gold and David Lee Windecher are our attorneys of the day. We know that inconsistent statements do not make a criminal case or make a
person a suspect. But I got to say, I`m a little dubious. I`m suspicious of all of this. Who wants to go first? Mr. Gold.
[20:10:13]JEFF GOLD, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Oh, OK. Well, Pat, the bottom line, inconsistent statements don`t mean anything right now because when
you lose your whole family -- maybe you were scared and you went outside and let them die and you are telling lies but not because you did it, but
because you`re a coward.
On the other hand, when we find out what happened -- were there accelerants, were there patterns that show arson -- then the state may have
a case. But until then, the inconsistent statements don`t mean anything, nor does his history. It can`t come in, in fact. His history has nothing
to do with the case.
DAVID LEE WINDECHER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: That`s right.
LALAMA: Mr. Windecher, go ahead. I have a feeling you`re going to agree.
WINDECHER: Right. Absolutely, 100 percent. I mean, the guy`s frazzled. He just lost his wife and two daughters. And then he gets his character
attacked about a case, a conviction of a charge that happened almost three decades ago that were not even completely relevant to anything like this?
The man has never been charged with anything violent, not arson, not murder. And so he`s being attacked on his character. Of course, he`s
going to be a little bit frazzled. He might answer inappropriately. The guy was being attacked for something that`s not even admissible in court.
Federal rules of evidence would prohibit it.
LALAMA: Bethany Marshall, I have to ask -- and let`s repeat, he is not a suspect, he hasn`t been charged. But what might be the reasons, if, in
fact, this was nefarious? What might be the reasons that would lead something to do -- someone to do something so, so heinous and extreme?
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, Pat, you`re right. This alleged crime is so cruel and so heinous. And what I would be wondering is, was
the wife and also the children -- were they gaining independence and about to leave him? Because women are at the greatest risk of homicide when they
are about to leave a relationship.
Was he in financial trouble? You alluded to that. And did he not want to take up the financial responsibilities of fatherhood? I would wonder if
there was an affair. And in a forensic interview, I would wonder, was there a girlfriend, was he stalking or dating somebody else?
LALAMA: Well, Bethany, I hate to cut you off, but I have to repeat we`re speculating. He is not a suspect. It is an arson investigation. But mr.
Patterson at this point is a free and innocent man.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:16:17]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) two houses down.
911 OPERATOR: The house is on fire?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Everybody`s trapped inside. They`re not responding.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We tried beating in the back glass and -- and they`re burned to death. They`re dead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One account quotes him as saying they were getting ready for bed when he heard a loud popping sound and went to investigate,
thus escaping injury.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: Back to you, Karyn Greer, investigative reporter. We have to talk about some recent issues. There were some dynamics in the family. What do
we know about financial problems, anything?
GREER: We know that about seven days before this fatal fire, that Mrs. Patterson was served papers from a company that they had been doing
business with for about two-and-a-half years. Mr. Patterson had promised on several occasions, according to the owner of that business, to pay and
that a check was in the mail. She -- the owner of that business decided to file a lawsuit, and that lawsuit was served to Mrs. Patterson because he
was not home. And that...
LALAMA: Lisa Breneman, fire investigator -- I`m sorry, Karyn, go ahead and finish.
GREER: I was just going to say and that`s just, you know, a little of what we found out as far as lawsuits were concerned. We also had heard that
there were issues with, you know, refinancing the home several times. We found some very consistent refinances over the last couple of years, so we
were looking into some of that information, as well.
LALAMA: And Lisa Breneman, fire investigator, any hope of being able to retrieve any financial documents, at least from something electronic, after
such a severe fire?
BRENEMAN: There would be, especially if they have it saved on their computer. Several laboratories can do forensic testing and retrieve a lot
of those financial files saved, either the computer or (INAUDIBLE) a flash drive that might be retrieved.
LALAMA: And you know, the problems in the family are actually much deeper than just finances, Michael Christian, NANCY GRACE producer, because we
know that there were some very strange events leading up to all of this. So can you run us through some of those strange dysfunctions? I shouldn`t
say strange -- all families have dysfunctions -- but unusual circumstances going on in the house.
CHRISTIAN: We know, Pat, that in 2014, there was an investigation into allegation that Kathy Patterson, the mother, was perhaps abusing alcohol.
That originated with the school where the daughters were going. Apparently, they were concerned that she had perhaps been driving with the
girls while under the influence and maybe even driving some other students while intoxicated, as well.
The social service agency came. They assigned a caseworker to it. They did speak to both parents, who denied that there was an excess of alcohol
in the home. The daughters denied it. And ultimately, that investigation was closed out without any kind of finding that the daughters were in any
danger whatsoever.
LALAMA: Joseph Scott Morgan, they are doing toxicology. Explain to me how that works, on the deceased in this situation. And I`m wondering, what do
you hope to find? I mean, perhaps I`m being a conspiracy theorist here because he, once again, is innocent, all right?
But that maybe she was intoxicated and couldn`t get out of the house. You know where I`m going with this?
MORGAN: Right, right. Yes. There`s two things that we`re going to be looking for, Pat. In the first instance, the thing that we`re really
concerned about -- was this family sedated in any way? Was there any alcohol on board or any kind of other drug that might have prevented them
from exiting this burning house?
Another important point is one of the things that we look for in medical legal death investigation is what we refer to as a proboxy-hemoglobin (ph)
level.
[20:20:03]That is, if you`re in the midst of a burning fire and you`re inhalating these terrible gases, one of the things that you look for is to
see what the level of carbon monoxide is in the system. And this will take some time, but these are critical clues that we`ll be looking for in
closing this death investigation out.
LALAMA: Michael Christian, back to you, NANCY GRACE producer. There`s more to the story, as well. Three dogs -- of their dogs died on different
days, quote, unquote, "suspiciously." What?
CHRISTIAN: They did. It`s very strange, Pat. It was within a maybe two- week period, all three of the dogs died. Now, Mrs. Patterson liked to post things on Facebook, and she posted on Facebook about how these dogs had
died and how, you know, they were so sorry for this. And please don`t -- you know, don`t -- don`t send back a post about what might have caused it,
but we feel bad.
Well, some of her friends did, indeed, respond to it. And they said, You know, you might want to check carbon monoxide to see if there was a carbon
monoxide build-up in the home. Well, it turns out that at one point, Brent Patterson had called 911 to report that his carbon monoxide detector in the
home had, indeed, gone off. Fire department came over, checked it, couldn`t find anything wrong with it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:25:18]911 OPERATOR: Do you see flames?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, ma`am, they`re way above the house. I mean, it`s literally burning down. Everybody`s trapped inside.
911 OPERATOR: How many people?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Four, at least.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The fire killed Kathy Patterson and her two daughters. Their husband and father, Brent, made it out alive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: Karyn Greer, investigative reporter, I want to get back to some of the dysfunction in the family, or maybe not because it`s interesting about
Mrs. Patterson. She liked to post on Facebook. She was very involved in her community. She was a seemingly very lovely woman.
But she would go back and forth between, I can`t stop crying, I`m very upset, to, I love my husband so much and he just got me some rings. And
this is all leading up to time of the fire. Again, all speculation, but I just want everyone to get a sense of what was going on in that household.
GREER: It was a very idyllic picture on Facebook in that household. Everything was wonderful, everything was great as far as the neighbors
knew. There were no issues in that house. But in really digging into this, we noticed -- you mentioned the dogs, the period over those two weeks
when all the dogs, the three dogs died. At that time, the girls were sick a lot, in and out of hospital care, very ill. So that was going on during
that time.
We also understand Mrs. Patterson had had a miscarriage during that -- in that time period. So there was a lot going on in the house leading up to,
you know, this fatal, fatal fire on February 9th. So those are some of the things that investigators have told us they`re looking at, as well, just to
see what could have been going on that would have sparked anything, if not out of the ordinary.
LALAMA: Yes, it seems -- I mean, in a way, so much of it seems sad almost, Michael Christian, NANCY GRACE producer because she had a daughter who had
these unexplained fainting spells. And she apparently, from what I understand, would cry at school sometimes. So what do we know about those
problems?
CHRISTIAN: Yes, that`s right. I believe she was diagnosed with some sort of anxiety. But you`re right, the oldest daughter, Kayla, was in-- 911 was
called several times. She was in the hospital several times. One time, they thought maybe it was dehydration.
And on the other hand, everybody described this as a wonderful, loving family. At the funeral, Mrs. Patterson`s own brother said that they were
such a loving couple, he was always jealous of Mr. and Mrs. Patterson, that he wished he`d found a soulmate like that in his own life. So everyone who
was on the outside describes them as a great couple.
LALAMA: Yes. Unbelievable.
Arizona police are searching for the parents of a newborn infant girl found abandoned in the back yard of a couple`s home, Baby Jane discovered in a
baby seat wrapped in a blanket on top of an irrigation box, her umbilical cord still attached. If you have information, call Mesa police at 480-644-
2211.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At this point, our detectives have kind of exhausted all of our initial possible leads that we had, and we have had no success
in locating either mom or dad of this child. So today, obviously, we`re reaching out to the public for anyone who may have been in that area
yesterday morning, may have seen a woman in that area or a vehicle or anything suspicious in nature that might be able to provide us with some
information.
[20:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LALAMA: I`m Pat LaLama, in for Nancy Grace tonight. A pediatric nurse, known as the "Angel of Death" accused of the mysterious deaths of dozens of
babies and toddlers. But will a legal loophole allow her to walk free?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Chelsea ended up in the clutches of the "Angel of Death". They rushed Chelsea to the hospital. Jones rode in the ambulance.
What Petti they didn`t know at the time is that the nurse injected Chelsea with a powerful muscle relaxant called succinylcholine. It stops breathing
almost instantly and leads to cardiac arrest.
PETTI MCCLELLAN, CHELSEA`S MOTHER: And in that ambulance I saw her I knew she wasn`t -- she wasn`t going to come back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: That`s video from "Crime Watch Daily." Straight out to my friend and colleague, Andrea Isom, from "Crime Watch Daily," you are very
intimately involved in the case. You sat with that mother. I can`t believe, Andrea, what this must be like for her, peeling that scab off the wound
again after all these years.
ANDREA ISOM, CRIME WATCH DAILY CORRESPONDENT: Pat, that is exactly what that was like. The tears were as if this just happened yesterday. She is
still so heartbroken. I mean, when she looks at the pictures of her baby girl, it`s as if she`s frozen in time.
She was robbed of all those moments because of one woman, Genene Jones, who was the baby killer, one woman, Genene Jones, who was the "Angel of Death,"
one woman who is pure evil, Genene Jones. Her name, I will never, ever forget it. These kinds of stories that you and I know are the ones that
stick to your ribs.
LALAMA: Absolutely. And I saw the interview and it`s absolutely compelling. Andrea, how in the world is there a loophole in this case?
ISOM: Well, you know, at the time of sentencing, we all knew about prison overcrowding. It`s a fact. We have to live with it, unfortunately. But
because of that, when Genene Jones was sentenced, there was that law in place that says basically I think it is three days off for every one day of
good behavior, which means her 99 years where she deserved to spend behind bars, the 99 years that we all thought she was supposed to get, if things
don`t change, she may walk out a free woman in 33 years. Thirty-three years ...
(CROSSTALK)
[20:35:00] LALAMA: Justin Freiman ...
ISOM: ... the fact that we are even saying that, it doesn`t even make sense.
LALAMA: No, it doesn`t. Justin Freiman, Nancy Grace producer, what was her M.O.?
JUSTIN FREIMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Her M.O. was that she would actually -- people would bring their children in, she would end up treating them, as
a nurse. But she would inject them -- and she would inject them with something that was basically a muscle relaxer and, in this case that she
got convicted for, it actually stopped the child`s heart from beating.
LALAMA: I am privileged to have Scott Monroe with us, the district attorney of the 198th district. I have to ask you, what can you possibly do now?
There is no recourse, is there not?
SCOTT MONROE, DISTRICT ATTORNEY OF 198TH DISTRICT: It doesn`t look like there is. You know, the mandatory parole law has existed for some time and
I don`t think it`s going to change and it`s certainly not going to change for Genene Jones. And basically once your good time days and actual days of
prison time equal your sentence, you are going to get out. And she stopped there (ph).
(CROSSTALK)
LALAMA: But what I don`t understand is -- what I don`t understand is -- excuse me for interrupting, how could this apply to a violent crime? I
could see, you know, a burglary with no one injured, how someone, who may be linked to dozens of other baby deaths, how does she get on this list of
people who get to take a hike?
MONROE: Well, it`s my understanding that everybody was on the list, only certain types of crimes at the time this law was passed were exempted from
that. Now, since that time, the list of criminal activity that`s exempted from that has been expanded significantly. But, at that time, this was not
on the list.
LALAMA: I want to go to Kay Reichenau. Your daughter was actually treated by this woman. What were your thoughts then and what are your thoughts now?
KAY REICHENAU, DAUGHTER WAS TREQATED BY GENENE JONES: Thoughts then, I couldn`t believe it happened. Thoughts now, I`m so glad that we have Misty
and we are very lucky to have that whereas a lot of parents don`t have that option.
LALAMA: Kay, did you have suspicions at the time? What were your thoughts about her?
REICHENAU: No. At the time, we truly didn`t. I mean, Misty wasn`t sick. She had mouth ulcers but I was concerned about that. But when we walked in,
they told me she had meningitis. So, at the time, yeah, I was really concerned that maybe something was seriously wrong with my baby. Looking
back, I should have known it wasn`t meningitis. There was no fever.
(CROSSTALK)
LALAMA: Well, let me stop -- let me stop you right there, Kay. I just want to say that, I`m very, very happy that everything is okay with your child.
But I have to say, Andy Kahan, you are a victim advocate.
I mean, this is, to me, outrageous. I can`t imagine that this woman is suddenly cured of whatever problem hers is.
ANDY KAHAN, CITY OF HOUSTON VICTIM ADVOCATE: Well, that never happened before in this country`s history to legally release a serial killer and all
of places, it`s happening in the State of Texas where we`re kind of known for law and order and executing violent things.
Let me clarify one thing (inaudible) district attorney stated about the mandatory release law. Any violent offender convicted in the State of Texas
between 1977 and 1987 is eligible for automatic mandatory release as long as they maintain good behavior. Any offender. And that includes Genene
Jones.
And the horrific thought is that she was served 33 calendar years, which will be less than one year for every infant she is credited with murdering.
Never happened before.
We have two years to prevent this storm from landing. We know it`s going to land and it`s going to continue to wreck its carnage amongst humanity
unless we can find another case out there. That`s our quest. There has to be another case that we can charge her with.
LALAMA: And I want to ask the lawyers, the possibilities of that are?
JEFF GOLD, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: That they`re, pretty remote. I mean, the idea I keep hearing that this is a serial killer. She`s not been convicted of
being a serial killer and may had been linked is not enough. Thirty-three years is sort of life in prison standard for most places in the country.
Certainly, she was sentenced to 99 years, but at the time, everybody knew it would boil down to something like this. So it`s what she expected.
(CROSSTALK)
LALAMA: She`s a danger -- she`s a danger to society. I can`t believe ...
(CROSSTALK)
GOLD: We don`t know -- we don`t know that. We know she was convicted of one murder. That`s all we really know. And beyond that ...
(CROSSTALK)
LALAMA: Bethany Marshall -- Jeff, let me go to Bethany Marshall. This woman, whatever her problem is, is not likely to be over with, correct?
[20:40:00] BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Oh, no. Well, she certainly fits the profile of a serial killer. One of the things we know is serial
killers gravitate toward vulnerable populations, babies, the elderly, sex workers, people on the street. Her whole career and profession was
organized around access to victims.
We don`t know if it was like a Munchausen by proxy situation, like, perhaps she wanted to make the baby sick so she could have some heroic attempt at
rescuing them and get praise from the medical community or if she was a sadist or she just wanted to have power.
She enjoyed killing the babies, watching them struggle and suffer but certainly, whatever the motivation, if she did kill all these babies, it`s
serial. This would fit the profile of a serial murderer.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:45:00] LALAMA: I`m Pat LaLama, in for Nancy Grace. A Catholic priest suspected in the murder of a beauty queen-turned-schoolteacher. After the
priest hears 25-year-old Irene Garza`s confession, she`s found facedown in a canal.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESOPNDENT: Did you commit the murder of Irene Garza?
JOHN FEIT, EX-PRIEST ARRESTED IN IRENE GARZA MURDER CASE: Interesting question. The answer is no.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We do have new facts.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who do you think is the murderer (ph)?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: John Feit.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is there any doubt in your mind?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: We are privileged to have a CNN correspondent, Gary Tuchman. Gary, I know that you know this case inside and out. Bring us up to date.
TUCHMAN: Pat, this is just huge news, and it`s been 56 years. This Easter will literally be the 56th anniversary of the murder of Irene Garza, and we
know that there`s been probable cause for each and everyone of those 56 years.
But for a variety of reasons, starting with the fact that the church did not want this man prosecuted back then and sent him to a monastery. And
then a district attorney, who was in office for 32 years and was reticent to prosecute for reasons we`re still not sure of. Finally, it`s come to
this day where this man, John Feit, has been charged with the murder of Irene Garza and has been extradited to Texas where he is in custody as we
speak.
LALAMA: Gary, I just want to ask you on a personal note, did you ever think this day would come where he would at least be finally in custody facing
the potential of criminal charges?
TUCHMAN: We did this story, Pat, because of the amazing article that was in "Texas Monthly" magazine years ago. And we had hoped -- we don`t know if
he`ll be found guilty in the court of law, that`s up to a jury.
But we knew that there was probable cause. That standard was met and we knew that with the media attention, the stories that we did at it, and we
did an hour of documentary on the case that, perhaps, if a new district attorney came into office, it would go to a grand jury and there would be
indictment.
And indeed (ph) that district attorney who did not want to prosecute, who was reticent about it, lost re-election that after 32 years in office.
A new D.A. took office, he investigated the case for a little over a year, brought it before a grand jury and the grand jury returned a quick
indictment.
LALAMA: Now -- well, justice is not swift here, but at least on its way it would seem. Let`s hear some sound from you actually interacting with the
once-Father Feit.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TUCHMAN: I want to ask you about Irene Garza.
FEIT: Yeah.
TUCHMAN: What do you know about her murder? Did you commit the murder of Irene Garza?
FEIT: Interesting question. The answer is no.
TUCHMAN: Sir, this family suffered from this for five decades. Anything you want to say to them? Anything you want to say to the family, sir?
Do you think the monk, Dale Tacheny, lied? Do you think the McAllen Police are lying when they say you`re the main suspect?
FEIT: I think I`m an investigative lead.
TUCHMAN: OK. But can you stop for one second, sir?
FEIT: No, I can`t.
TUCHMAN: OK. But do you think Dale Tacheny, the monk, is lying? Did you -- he says you told him you committed the murder.
FEIT: I think he`s demented.
TUCHMAN: And what about the priest, Father O`Brien? He says you committed the murder, too. He knew you very well, sir.
FEIT: De mortuis nil nisi bonum.
TUCHMAN: What does that mean, sir?
FEIT: Look it up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: Whoa! Slightly arrogant there. And Stacey Newman, Nancy Grace producer. What happened? Where is he and what happens next?
STACEY NEWMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, he`s been extradited back into this jurisdiction and we believe at the next hearing, he will actually be
arraigned. But at the hearing he had, Pat, this is interesting.
Before he was extradited, he appeared completely confused, disoriented and says he has no idea why he`s being charged for a murder that happened in
1960.
LALAMA: Very interesting. I want to go back to Gary Tuchman. I know you are the expert on this case. Can you tell us, just give us briefly the details
so that people are up to speed on exactly what happened so long ago.
TUCHMAN: Really quick before I tell you that, when you just heard him talking to me those years ago, and I asked him, there was a priest who
passed away. And this priest said that Feit admitted to him he committed this murder and he said to me something in Latin, he said, look it up. And
what he said in Latin was, I will not speak ill of the dead. So, that`s what his message was to me.
So, he`s an arrogant man. There`s no question about it but certainly it doesn`t mean he`s a murder, but the grand jury has indicted him.
What happened back then in 1960 was that John Feit was a priest in McAllen, Texas, that`s a border town in Texas. He was hearing confession from Irene
Garza. He was the last person to be seen with her.
Irene Garza was found five days after Easter Sunday 1960 in a canal. In the canal next to her was a slide viewer. Something that was used back in early
60`s, not used today buy one of those kind of GAS slide viewers. It was John Feit`s slide viewer. John Feit also had marks on his wrist. He also,
according to a monk that you heard in that interview I did, he was sent to a monastery after this murder.
This monk says that Feit admitted killing a woman in Texas but he kept it quiet for all these years. Feels terribly guilty about it, but today, he is
talking about it and will be a star witness in this trial when it takes place.
[20:50:00] LALAMA: Wow. So incredible. Lynda de la Vina, you are the first cousin of the victim in this case. What must this revelation of his arrest
mean to you?
LYNDA DE LA VINA, FIRST COUSIN OF VICTIM IRENE GARZA: Well, it was real bittersweet in the sense that we worked so many - so hard for so many
years, but at the same time, we`re so grateful and appreciative to the police and the Texas Rangers and, of course, District Attorney Rodriguez`s
office who really stayed with it and believed in this and moved forward with an investigation with new eyes and with new, I guess, fervor in this
case.
LALAMA: David Windecher and Jeff Gold. I suspect you are going to say, hmm, too much time has passed. You can`t possibly have anything new to connect
him to a murder.
WINDECHER: Pat, listen, I`m not buying this. This is a winnable case for the defense, and here is why. This is actually presented to the grand jury
in 2004 and then no bill came back.
Now, this D.A. that`s currently in office promised his community that if he`s elected, he`s going to look at the case. Now mind you, he was elected.
If he didn`t try this care -- or try to present it to the grand jury, he would have not had a word. And now, if he wants to get ...
(CROSSTALK)
LALAMA: Wait, wait, wait. Are you saying this is a -- this is a political stunt? It`s a political stunt?
WINDECHER: Yeah, of course. I mean, he promised the community that he`s going to look into this case. It`s been 32 years.
We heard that it went ...
(CROSSTALK)
LALAMA: Well maybe because ...
WINDECHER: ... through a grand jury before.
(CROSSTALK)
LALAMA: ... maybe because -- maybe because Mr. Gold had meant something to him. He knew how much the community felt about this case and wanted to get
some justice for the family.
WINDECHER: I`m telling you, this is a winnable case for the defense.
(CROSSTALK)
GOLD: That may be -- that may be, Pat. I mean, number one, I would like to know what the new evidence is. We heard there is new evidence, what is it?
But on the other hand, any case this old is going to be stale. The witnesses could be dead. They are certainly not around. They might be
ancient themselves. Of course, it is just so old. It is almost impossible to try such an old case.
LALAMA: Doesn`t make it not worth trying if he feels he has something. I doubt they would waste the taxpayer`s money, but I`m sure you`d disagree.
It may not feel like it but winter is not over. In Detroit, which has had nearly three feet of snow, they don`t count out winter too soon and neither
does this week`s CNN hero. Veronica Scott designs a convertible coat for the homeless that turns into a sleeping bag at night and that`s not all it
does.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VERONICA SCOTT, CNN HERO FOR THE WEEK: The jacket itself was meant to offer people warmth and a little bit of pride, because you see so many people on
the streets that are wearing somebody else`s trash, somebody else`s throwaway. So, it was about creating something that was made specifically
for them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: Even more interesting is who makes the coats? And to find out, watch Veronica Scott`s story at cnnheroes.com and nominate someone you
think should be the 2016 CNN Hero.
[20:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No one deserves that. (Inaudible).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Inaudible).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Family and friends of Irene Garza have long awaited his arrest.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
LALAMA: I want to go straight out to Father Michael Manning from the "Word in the World" radio show. I`m going to tell you, Father, I grew up in an
Italian-American household, Catholic, and the priest was the next thing to God and could do no wrong. And I have a feeling that did not want this
revealed and that he was protected all this time by the church.
MICHAEL MANNING, "WORD IN THE WORLD" RADIO SHOW HOST: I agree with you. I think that I was raised with the same feeling that this would be very
untouchable. Yet the reality is today we know that there are priests who have done bad things.
They have committed felonies and they need, very clearly, to be prosecuted in those situations. Before we give a guilty plea to this situation, the
openness of admitting the facts that we`ve got to move away from this thing that priests can do no wrong.
LALAMA: This is murder, Father. This is murder. Was murder less sinful then that it is now? Is that how it was looked upon?
(CROSSTALK)
MANNING: Of course.
LALAMA: You know, he`s one of our (ph).
(CROSSTALK)
MANNING: Of course not. Of course not.
LALAMA: How do you protect them?
MANNING: Of course not.
(CROSSTALK)
LALAMA: Not you, but how does the church protect them?
MANNING: There was this idea that somehow the priest was somehow so close to God that he was away from anything of responsibility for what he was
doing, and that`s wrong. It`s wrong.
We have got to move into the awareness that if there`s something -- well we know today that if there is any accusation, well, if it`s murder, then it
is turned directly over to the situation of civil authorities. But even in the ...
(CROSSTALK)
LALAMA: It`s time for ...
(CROSSTALK)
MANNING: ... anything happens, let`s stop, let`s look and let`s investigate. And the priest is going to initially, boom, he`s going to be
put out of service. He`s not going to be able to function until he can clarify what the situation is.
LALAMA: It`s definitely time for a change in thought on this front.
MANNING: Yes. Very much so.
LALAMA: We remember American hero, New Jersey Trooper Sean Cullen, 31, killed in the line of duty. Born in Dublin. Became an all-American college
wrestler. He fulfilled his lifelong dream of becoming a state trooper. He also served the West Hampton Township Police. He leaves behind his parents,
two brothers, one sister, a fianc,e and a 9-month-old son. Sean Cullen, an American hero.
"Dr. Drew" is coming up next with a pro-gun mom who is shot by her 4-year- old.
Thanks to our guests and to you at home for being with us. I`m Pat LaLama from Crime Watch Daily. Good night, everybody.
[21:00:00]
END
