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Nancy Grace
Concert Pianist`s Wife Pleads Not Guilty; 1-Year-Old Indiana Girl Kidnapped; Golden Girl Betty White Dragged To Court. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired March 24, 2016 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, Texas suburbs. A world-renowned concert pianist comes home to find his two little girls,
ages just 5 and 1 year old, dead, murdered in their own bed, his wife covered in blood and stab wounds.
Bombshell tonight. The overtly bandaged wife of a world famous concert pianist just in court claiming, I`m not guilty.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A world-renowned concert pianist...
GRACE: He finds both of his little girls dead, murdered, Mommy hiding in the closet, covered with blood.
Tonight, we are getting information from inside the police investigation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Tonight, Spencer (ph) suburbs, a 15-month-old little girl kidnapped.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Indiana authorities are frantically searching for a missing 1-year-old girl. Have you seen her? Little Shalen Emmerman (ph)
was reported missing when her father says he woke up and discovered she was missing from her crib. But despite interviews and area searches with
helicopters, boats and search dogs, the baby has yet to be found. Let`s bring Shalen Emmerman home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And beloved star of stage and screen Betty White, the "Golden Girl," is dragged to court.
Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight, to the Texas suburbs, world-renowned concert pianist comes home, finds his two little girls, ages just 5 and 1 year old, dead,
murdered in the family`s own beds, his wife covered in blood and stab wounds.
Bombshell tonight. The overtly bandaged wife of the world famous concert pianist just in court insisting, I`m not guilty. A camera in the
courtroom. Let`s go straight in the courtroom and see what`s happening.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is cause (ph) numbers 1449285 and 1449284, the state of Texas versus Sofya Yegorina (ph) Tsygankova. Ms. Tsygankova, is
that your full and complete name?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you. Now, you are the person who`s charged in both of these cases, do you understand?
All right, now, this -- Ma`am, I some have paperwork indicating that you cannot afford a lawyer, is that correct? You filled out this paperwork
with the assistance of somebody? Is that correct?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. And I`ll make a finding at this time that you`re indigent based upon the information that you provided. Do you waive
a formal reading of the indictment?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight to Chris Spargo reporter, Dailymail.com. So the mom has been formally charged with murder. And it`s my understanding that she has
a dual defense, Chris Spargo, that she is claiming, A, I didn`t do it, and B, if I did, I was insane.
But first, I want to go through the facts as they are unfolding tonight basing -- on which this charge is based. So explain to me, Chris Spargo --
let`s take a look at the police documents. What do we know she did? What did she say when her husband got home?
CHRIS SPARGO, DAILYMAIL.COM (via telephone): We know that when the husband got to the home, the door was unlocked. He couldn`t find (INAUDIBLE) He
was calling out. And when he finally found his wife, she was covered in blood, sitting in the closet, rocking back and forth in her nightgown.
GRACE: Now, interesting. To Matt Zarrell, interest because let`s take a look at the timeline. The timeline is that it was her last day at work at
a local college, that day, that Wednesday. She comes home. She has a doctor`s appointment. The baby-sitter is there. The baby-sitter says
Mommy was perfectly fine.
She has a -- oh! Oh, this is important, Matt Zarrell. The baby-sitter says that she has the children ready for bed. But when Daddy finds them
the next morning, they`re fully dressed. Interesting. Did Mommy then put their clothes on them?
The baby-sitter leaves 8:50, everything`s fine, 9:00 o`clock, she talks to her husband, they plan him visiting, being at the house the next morning at
9:20 AM.
All right, Matt Zarrell, what more do we know about what the father finds when he walks in the door?
[20:05:03]MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Well, what he found when he walked into the door is he saw two children who were
already deceased, cold to the touch, suffering from rigor mortis, dead on their beds.
The wife, as you mention, was ambulatory. She is covered in blood. She`s rocking back and forth. She`s not making any sense. And the husband says
to the wife, What have you done? And the wife thought he was referring to the blood which was all over the house.
GRACE: Robyn Walensky joining me, senior news anchor with The Blaze. Robyn, tell me the narrow question about the blood. I want to analyze the
blood found in the home because, Robyn, these little girls were not stabbed. All the blood is coming from her.
Hold on just a moment. Charles, could you give me the pictures of the mother in court? Because we see on her wrists that they are -- hold on.
Right there, you see her walking in. She`s got a bandage. It`s like a big Band-Aid on the front of her chest. That`s one of the puncture wounds.
Now, see, it`s a Band-Aid, all right? And she`s ambulatory. Now, look at this (INAUDIBLE) iPhone (ph) for me. Look at those cuts on her wrists.
Hold on just a minute, Robyn Walensky. Dr. Tim Gallagher, she was ambulatory, walking around, mobile at the time the husband got there,
hiding in a closet still in her nightgown, covered in blood. But she came straight out of the medical unit. So how serious were the wounds that she
had self-inflicted?
DR. TIM GALLAGHER, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST (via telephone): Nancy, I`m looking at the injuries now, and they were treated by a doctor. You can see
that they are sutured. If there were any serious damage, the doctor would not have allowed her out of his office and into the courtroom. You could
also look under the -- the injury, you can see scars. You can see scars from when she did it in the past, you know? So this woman has a history of
self-cutting.
GRACE: Now, you know, it`s interesting that you picked that up, Dr. Gallagher, but I didn`t realize you can actually see prior cuts there? I
thought this was all from this incident.
GALLAGHER: You can see healed scars underneath the existing injury, the sutured injury. So this woman -- it looks like she`s had a past history of
self-cutting.
GRACE: You know, Dr. Ramani Durvasula joining me, clinical psychologist. It`s interesting she was at the doctor that day and the doctor saw no
reason to keep her, no problem, nothing.
RAMANI DURVASULA, PSYCHOLOGIST: I mean, we -- again, we don`t know this woman`s psychiatric history at this point. Just because a person has a
major mental illness doesn`t mean that it`s always visible. If her doctor wasn`t looking for that and wasn`t asking the right questions, it could be
missed. I know it seems a big spring to go from the daytime and then to this crime at night. But we do not know her mental health history.
GRACE: Well, actually...
DURVASULA: That could answer a lot of these questions.
GRACE: ... it wasn`t quite that extended. Unleash the lawyers, Kirby Clements and Misty Marris. Kirby, it wasn`t normal in the daytime, snap at
night. Of course, "snap" is not a defense under the law. But up until that evening, 9:30-ish that evening, she was fine. She had a perfect
conversation with her husband. She knew he was coming the next morning at 9:20 AM.
Here`s the bottom line, Kirby. He filed for divorce. He was leaving her. There goes the money train. She had quit work. She`s a concert pianist
herself but says she doesn`t like to compete and doesn`t like to perform, that she just doesn`t like that. So he`s been out making all the money and
supporting the family, and he`s leaving.
And so what does she do? Kills both of his children and leaves them there for him to find, leaves the door unlocked for him to come in and find them.
KIRBY CLEMENTS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, that`s a great story, but it`s not the facts, Nancy. Let`s factor in the fact that the woman had an extensive
psychiatric history. She had gone to see a doctor, had been prescribed medication. In fact, that bottle...
GRACE: What extensive psychiatric...
CLEMENTS: ... was empty.
GRACE: ... history do you know of, Kirby?
CLEMENTS: Well, I believe the woman was prescribed medication that she was taking...
GRACE: No, I`m asking you...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: I`m asking what do you know. You can`t just put it out there that she`s got an extensive psychiatric history.
CLEMENTS: Well...
GRACE: What psychiatric history? Because we don`t have that.
CLEMENTS: It is my understanding that the woman had a psychiatric history. I can just...
GRACE: Really? What are the facts on which you base that?
CLEMENTS: Well, I will start with this. From your own doctor`s testimony or statements here, she had healing wounds so she had a history of self-
cutting.
As to your theory of the gravy train ending -- you know, have you ever heard of alimony? So she was going to get that. And you ever heard of
child support? So she was going to get that. So quote honestly, the gravy train was going to keep on moving. So there goes your motive right there,
Nancy. So...
GRACE: No, I`m not saying that that has to be a motive because as you well know -- and to you, too, Marris -- the state doesn`t have to prove motive.
What I am saying was this was well thought out. Whether she had cut herself in the past, as a youth, as a teen, I don`t know that. And
contrary to what Kirby is arguing, that she had an extensive history, we don`t know that. That has not been documented.
[20:10:08]I know she was in the doctor`s office that day, and the doctor saw no reason to keep her there. Even if she had had any type of a mental
treatment in the past, this was very well thought out.
Hold on. I`m going to tell you why I say that, Misty Marris. To you, Matt Zarrell. Isn`t it true that out in the garage, there was a car. Let`s see
that still. The car had been doctored with a rag stuck in the exhaust pipe and even a suitcase dragged out to hold the rag in the exhaust pipe.
She first tried to kill the children with carbon monoxide.
ZARRELL: Yes, that`s what it appears, Nancy. And another thing to point out here to the attorneys is the baby-sitter was there until 8:50 PM, and
everything seemed fine. It wasn`t until the baby-sitter left that everything went bad. So why -- if she was psychotic and was having a
mental breakdown, how come she didn`t attack the children immediately when she got home?
GRACE: You know, another issue, Matt Zarrell. What can you tell me that you learned regarding the children`s swim instructor?
ZARRELL: Yes, so reports are that the swim instructor had spoken to the mother a number of times about the child`s swimming. And apparently, the
mother was a perfectionist and wanted the child to be as good as possible. In fact, the swim coach said the mother asked how she can make the child
perfect at this.
GRACE: So she was then pushing the swim coach to make her daughter a perfect swimmer. Am I understanding that correctly?
ZARRELL: According to the swim coach, yes.
GRACE: Let`s listen to the police presser. Let`s go right now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Earlier this afternoon, the Banbrook Police Department served two warrants of arrest on Sofya Tsygankova for the charge of capital
murder of a person under 10 years of age, a first degree felony. These charges are a result of the deaths of 5-year-old Nika Kholodenko and 1-
year-old Michaela Kholodenko. As we speak, our investigators are in the process of filing both cases with the Tarrant County district attorney`s
office.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:16:09]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two deceased children, ages 5 and 1.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Vadym Kholodenko is accustomed to being in the spotlight, but not like this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Banbrook Police Department served two warrants of arrest on Sofya Tsygankova for the charge of capital murder of a person
under 10 years of age.
We do have reason to believe that the stab wounds were self-inflicted. She`s still undergoing the mental evaluation, but she`s now being also held
on our charges, as well.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: In the last hours, the mother of the two little children, the two little girls, ages 5 and 1 year old belonging to this concert pianist, has
been charged in their murders.
We have just obtained the search warrant and affidavit. Let`s take a look at what the mother said that sparked police interest. She took the knife
outside because she, quote, "didn`t see any future for me and my kids." Her husband`s leaving and she`s angry.
At one point, Tsygankova asked, Did I do anything bad to my kids? She made several mentions of a bad dream she had that night, didn`t elaborate.
Remember, Kholodenko arriving that morning. She remembered that. And him saying, What have you done? She assumed that he was talking about all of
the blood. Those are some of the statements that piqued the interest of the police.
There you can see the jail where she is. Let`s take a look at her amenities and menu. Her two children are dead and tonight -- Oh, there is
her cell. She gets room service. Let`s see the menu. They play Richard Simmons videos for exercise. There you go -- potatoes, eggs, grits,
tortillas, tacos sauce, lunch, Salisbury steak, chicken tacos? Really? Birthday cake? Seriously? All this for her?
You know what? Robyn Walensky, I`m taking a look at this search return from the affidavit. If you put this with what she said, Robyn, she was
packing the children to leave. If you look carefully at the affidavit, you see her passport has been left out. You see that there were several
suitcases out. Out in the garage was the red suitcase, but inside, there was a blue suitcase. She had been going in and out because there are
leaves from the outside with blood on them that are now inside.
Not only that, the children`s pajamas are taken off, and they have now been dressed. Another important thing, Robyn Walensky. The baby-sitter said
everything was fine at 9:00 o`clock. The husband`s on the phone with her until 9:30. The children already had rigor mortis, Robyn. They had been
dead for many hours when he got there.
She did this. She planned to leave, then got frustrated and killed the children. That`s what happened.
WALENSKY: Yes, she really spiraled out of control, Nancy. And whether or not she was on any of this anti-psychotic medication that was prescribed to
her, 30 pills were missing from a bottle. In addition, Nancy, there were two knives that the police found, they thoroughly documented, the
responding officers at the scene, an extremely detailed report that you have there in front of you.
And that is that there was a butcher knife out on the patio that had blood on the handle, blood on the knife. And it was covered over with some
trees, some branch (ph). And then there was a second knife described as a cleaver-style knife. And that was found on the inside railing of the tub -
- you know how there`s a little shelf in there -- next to some -- also some empty prescription bottles.
[20:20:04]GRACE: Let`s take a look at Mommy in court the last hours. The overtly bandaged wife of the concert pianist comes into courtroom sporting
a big bandage down the front of her chest. We`ve slo-moed that for you to see it. Apparently, there was a puncture wound right there, not requiring
stitches to our knowledge, and not requiring her to stay in bed. Also, superficial cuts on her wrist.
You know, Chris Spargo, Dailymail.com, what I don`t understand is all these people that commit homicide and they then say, Oh, well, my real intention
was to kill myself. Why don`t they die and the innocent people, the children, live? It`s always bass-ackwards.
And if you look at this search warrant return, you see exactly what she was doing. He was coming over. He was filing for divorce, and she was angry.
Didn`t she say, Chris Spargo, I don`t see a future for us anymore?
SPARGO: That is correct.
GRACE: What else do you know, Chris Spargo?
SPARGO: She called the night before to confirm what time the father was going to be there. She kept the door unlocked (INAUDIBLE) right (ph) right
(ph) -- walk right into the house. She had this all set up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:25:21]GRACE: He finds both of his little girls dead, murdered.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Vadym Kholodenko is accustomed to being in the spotlight, but not like this.
GRACE: Tonight, we are learning the cause of death of these two little girls, ages just 5 and 1.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We do have reason to believe that the stab wounds were self-inflicted.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are now learning that the mother has a bifurcated or dual defense. One, I didn`t do it, and number two, if I did do it, I was
insane.
In the last hours, the mother is in court. Let`s go in the courtroom to see (sic) a look at her. As she`s coming in, you see she is overtly
bandaged, sporting a big bandage down the front of her chest. Apparently, that did not require stitches, that we know of. She keeps going, and she
stands with her hands behind her. Visible are superficial scratches to her wrists. Miraculously, she lives and her children die.
You know, I`m taking a very close look at this inventory and search warrant. And we`re learning a lot of it. We see 51 swabs have been taken
from the kitchen, and I believe very strongly police are using those swabs to go down the drain to determine if she threw out all the medication.
Another issue, Matt Zarrell, that just really jumps out at me is that -- this is very troubling, Matt -- that she waited for the baby-sitter to
leave before she kills the two little girls. Explain. Why is that so significant, Matt Zarrell?
ZARRELL: Yes, it`s really important because the baby-sitter here is going to be a very crucial witness because when the wife arrives home at 8:50,
the baby-sitter says she saw as no indication that something was ever wrong.
She actually baby-sat for the girls twice that day, including once in the morning so the wife could go to a doctor`s appointment. And the baby-
sitter said the wife told her, I just need the pills for sleeping because I couldn`t sleep at nighttime.
And the baby-sitter said the mother was very kind and loving. There was nothing to indicate that anything was wrong. That`s why it`s interesting
it wasn`t until the baby-sitter left that all of this allegedly took place.
GRACE: You know, another thing, Robyn -- Robyn Walensky, Chris Spargo -- to you, Robyn. Putting it all on the man, saying, You know what? I just
didn`t see a future for me and the girls, so I killed them. You know, the very -- within a few days, they were supposed to exchange financial
information for this divorce to be settled. It was the end of the gravy train. That train`s leaving the station! She might actually have to go
back to work, Robyn!
WALENSKY: Yes, you know, she claims that she was making $400 a month at TCU, Texas Christian University, which is right here in Dallas, and that
she lost her job. We have a detailed account of -- the rent was about $1,500, the car payment $300 and other expenses totaling for about $2,500 a
month, Nancy. This is no reason to go to kill yourself or your little girls just because the money is ending.
Clearly, something else was going on in her mind. In that 12-hour timeframe, wouldn`t it be interesting if there was some sort of a nannycam
in that house, a nannycam, because the blood splatter is everywhere. So clearly, she was walking from room to room or running from room to room.
GRACE: Let`s take a look. You decide. You look at her demeanor. What do you think happened? Here is Sofya Tsygankova in court. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How does she plead?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you very much. The bond to be set at $1 million respectively in both cases.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:33:21] GRACE: Tonight, Spencer Suburbs, a 15-month-old little girl, kidnapped.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A Spencer, Indiana baby is missing and police are asking for the public`s help in locating her. Shaylyn Ammerman is
described as 25 inches tall and 20 pounds with blond hair and blue eyes. She was last seen wearing a zip-up onesie, decorated with owls and may also
have a blue and white Winnie the Pooh blanket with her. Shaylyn was reported missing from her crib, but so far, no sign of the missing child
has been found.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: (ph) Chance Walser is joining us there on the scene from CNN affiliate, WRTV. Chance, thank you for being with us. You have been on
this since the child went missing. Let`s take it from the top, Chance. Tell me what happened.
CHANCE WALSER, MULTIMEDIA JOURNALIST, WRTV (via telephone: Well, police say they got a call 9:00 a.m., around 9:00 a.m. Wednesday morning that this
little girl went missing. When they got to the house, they talked to the girl`s paternal grandmother who she was staying with along with her father.
They live in the same house. The grandmother told police that she put Shaylyn down to bed around midnight, Tuesday night into Wednesday morning.
Went to get her at 8:00 a.m. Wednesday and the child was gone. So since then, police have been working to fill in the blanks.
GRACE: You know, Chance Walser joining us, WRTV. Interesting, you just said that the grandmother put her to sleep at midnight, is that right?
WALSER (via telephone): Yes, that`s right. Raises some questions in some people`s minds as to why the baby was awake until midnight but that`s what
she told police, around midnight, she put Shaylyn down to bed.
[20:34:59] GRACE: OK. And then at 8:00 a.m., is it the grandma or is it the father that notices the baby is missing?
WALSER (via telephone): The grandmother went to wake up the child and noticed that she was missing. That`s when she called 911 to report that.
GRACE: Chance Walser joining me from WRTV, there on the scene. Chance, who lives in the home?
WALSER (via telephone): The father, Shaylyn`s dad and Shaylyn`s paternal grandmother. So he lives with his mom. Shaylyn splits time, a week at a
time between that house and her mother`s house, which is just down the street. Police say during those overnight hours, they believe at least
three men were in the house during those overnight hours --
GRACE: And who are they? I thought they were just the brothers? Chance, I thought that those were the brothers of the father?
WALSER (via telephone): Right, right, right. And since then, police have talked to a lot more people. They have opened up this persons of interest
list from three or four yesterday to now seven or ten. They just said they`re ruling nobody out.
GRACE: With me, Chance Walser, WRTV. I`m just now being joined by three special guests. Sergeant Curt Durnil, the PIO of the Indiana State Police.
Jessica Steward, little Shaylyn`s mother, and Tamera Sue Morgan, the paternal grandmother. I`m going to go first to Tamera Sue Morgan, the
grandmother who was there at the time the baby goes missing. Miss Morgan, thank you for being with us.
TAMERA SUE MORGAN (via telephone): Thank you.
GRACE: Miss Morgan, who put the baby to bed at midnight, you or the father?
MORGAN (via telephone): The baby was not put to bed at midnight, she was put to bed at 8:30 p.m. and she went to sleep around 10:00.
GRACE: OK, 8:30 p.m. And who stayed with her until she went to sleep?
MORGAN (via telephone): I did.
GRACE: And where is the 12:00 midnight coming from?
MORGAN (via telephone): That`s when we checked on her.
GRACE: OK, and she was there. You know, I hear you, Miss Morgan. I can put my children in the bedroom at 8:00, they are still laughing at 9:30,
10:00 at night. So, putting them down at 8:30 does not mean they go to sleep at 8:30. So, you are with them, you check on them at midnight, is
that right?
MORGAN (via telephone): Yes, I checked on her at midnight and she was still in her bed, asleep.
GRACE: Didn`t someone check on her at 2:00 a.m., as well?
MORGAN (via telephone): Yes, that was also me.
GRACE: OK. So where`s the daddy during all of this?
MORGAN (via telephone): Daddy had went to bed.
GRACE: OK. 8:00 a.m., who goes in to check on her?
MORGAN (via telephone): Her father was the first one to check on her in her bed and then he finds out she is not there and then he comes knocking
at my bedroom door, which was open, and asked if I had Shaylyn. And of course I did not.
GRACE: Miss Morgan, how many entries are there to your home?
MORGAN (via telephone): There is actually two entries but only one that you can get through.
GRACE: Why?
MORGAN (via telephone): The other one, the father`s bed is in front of.
GRACE: OK. I understand. Let me go now to Jessica Stewart, the mother of little Shaylyn. Miss Stewart, I have got to tell you, our hearts are going
out to you right now. I cannot imagine what you and the whole family are going through. When did you learn Shaylyn was missing? Who told you she
was missing?
JESSICA STEWART (via telephone): Officer Terry (ph) Sips. So he knocked on my door around, it was a little after 8:00 in the morning. It was right
after I got my kids on the bus to school. Yes, officer Terry Sips of the - -
GRACE: And what are they telling you tonight? What is the progress of the case?
STEWART (via telephone): They said that they are searching. I tried to see if, you know, there was anything I could do instead of sit at home and
they told me, basically, just sit at home and listen to the news, listen to and look on Facebook to see if there`s anything worth reporting. And I
have reported a few things to them that they are looking into.
GRACE: Sergeant Curt Durnil is with us, the PIO of the Indiana State Police. Sergeant, thank you for being with us. Do you have any persons of
interest?
SERGEANT CURT DURNIL, INDIANA STATE POLICE (via telephone): Yes, Nancy, we do. We have several people that we are interviewing and re-interviewing.
Those are still being conducted today.
GRACE: So you have people you have interviewed. You`re re-interviewing them. I know you won`t tell me who the persons of interest are, but how
many are there?
[20:39:56] DURNIL (via telephone): You know, at this time, Nancy, I would say several. Anywhere from seven to ten of those persons that were in the
house, those people who may have seen somebody that was in the house after they had left the premises. Those people are all being spoken to.
GRACE: And again, persons of interest does not mean you are a suspect. That means you might know something. OK? So, don`t get crazy if somebody
is a person of interest. That means police have an interest in speaking to them. Sergeant Durnil, have you performed any polygraphs?
DURNIL (via telephone): Yes. Polygraphs have been performed today. I have been told minimum of one, possibly three, and perhaps more to come,
Nancy.
GRACE: Again, I know, sergeant, you will not reveal the identities of who have taken the polygraphs, but have they passed?
DURNIL (via telephone): Yes, I have not been given privilege to that information, Nancy, if they passed or even if they completed the polygraph
examination. That information will hopefully come to me soon.
GRACE: OK, I don`t understand something. Sergeant, is it your understanding, was there a party there that night?
DURNIL (via telephone): You know, Nancy, I think it`s your perception of what you and I consider a party and what others may consider a party. If
it`s something where people come and go all night, every night, then no, that`s not a party, but, if me and you send out invitations to a gathering
at our house, we consider that a party. So we do know that folks were in the house all night besides grandmother, father, and the baby.
GRACE: On a weeknight?
DURNIL (via telephone): It was definitely a weeknight, yes.
GRACE: Marc Klaas, president and founder, Klaas Kids, weigh in, Marc.
MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAAS KIDS: Well, Nancy, it sounds like the police are doing everything that they should be doing. The only advice
I would give would be to bring the FBI in given the fact that they do this all the time and they have resources that are unavailable to other law
enforcement agencies. But what they`re going to do is they`re going to continue to search the immediate area around the house and make many
passes, given the fact that this is a tiny little girl. They are going to subpoena cell phone information. They are going to be checking
surveillance cameras in and around the area and they will continue to question people until they eliminate themselves or they get pointed in the
direction of what actually happened to this little girl.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:46:29] GRACE: Beloved star of stage and screen, Betty White, the golden girl, is dragged to court.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was golden girl, Betty White, less than golden to a live-in caretaker who claims the Hollywood superstar didn`t pay her
overtime or let her take breaks?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK, first of all, let`s talk about Betty White. She`s, I think pushing 90. This is "Golden Girls" from NBC Touchstone Television. Let`s
see the Snickers commercial. Let`s see that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mike, what is your deal, man?
BETTY WHITE: Oh, come on, man, you`ve been riding me all day.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re playing like Betty White out there.
WHITE: That`s not what your girlfriend said.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That Snickers Super Bowl commercial from Mars Candy -- she`s actually, I was corrected in my ear, 94. OK, it`s going to be very hard,
Alan Duke, editor in chief of leadstories.com, for me to believe that this woman mistreated an employee who worked in her home and the employee is
jumping up after 20 years. Here is "Golden Girls", NBC Touchstone Television. The woman worked for her 20 years and she didn`t like it, why
didn`t she leave?
ALAN DUKE, EDITOR IN CHIEF, LEADSTORIES.COM: Yes, 22 years. She is claiming, essentially, I have done the math, about 30,000 hours she wasn`t
paid for and she needs to be paid time and a half for some of that. That could be a half million dollars or more. And she`s been living with her 22
years in this lovely house in west Los Angeles.
GRACE: Bet she didn`t pay any rent. Bet she didn`t pay for any of the gas or the electric or the water or the yard or the trash, get the roof fixed.
Who paid for that, Alan Duke? Here, this is from TV Land. Alan Duke, I asked you a question, man! Who paid for that? Did this woman pay for it?
Oh, no, Betty White paid for it.
DUKE: Yes. She was living in this beautiful -- it`s a $7.5 million house just down the street -- the only downside, it`s down the street from where
O.J. Simpson lived. But it`s a beautiful area of --
GRACE: He lived in the correctional institute, Alan Duke, so I don`t think she has to worry about that. Karen Conti joining me, labor lawyer expert
out of Chicago. Karen, I`m going into this biased. I never thought I would say that. I love Betty White and I don`t buy this. The woman works
for her for 20 years, she says she wouldn`t pay her overtime, wouldn`t pay minimum wage, wouldn`t provide meal periods. What? If she didn`t like it,
she can leave.
KAREN CONTI, LABOR LAWYER: I agree. And my guess is she is a disgruntled employee. At the end, she got thrown out, and now she is going to throw
the books at poor Betty. And interestingly, the laws in California are really in favor of employees more so than anywhere else in the nation
including the federal laws, and just a couple years ago, Governor Jerry Brown passed a law protecting domestic workers giving them rights to
uninterrupted meal time, time and a half over nine hours, the right to have --
GRACE: Oh, look Karen, there she is with her wax figure. OK, look at this picture right here, Karen. You have got Estelle Getty, has passed away.
Alan Duke, editor in chief, leadstories.com, almost all the golden girls are gone.
[20:49:56] DUKE: Yes. The longevity of Betty White is absolutely incredible. Her career started in the, what, early 50`s, if not before
then, and it`s still going strong. She has not missed a beat. Every year she`s doing something, keeps winning awards. At 94, her energy is
astounding. And she has got to worry about if somebody does the proper calculation for a worker.
GRACE: Everybody, you are seeing "Golden Girls" from NBC Touchstone TV. Question, Karen Conti, labor lawyer, an expert joining us out of Chicago.
It seems to me that the timing is highly coincidental because this woman either quit or was fired, I don`t know the truth of that, and then suddenly
files this -- what did Duke say? Half a million dollar lawsuit against golden girl Betty White?
CONTI: And it doesn`t sound good for Betty because the law says that an employer has the obligation to keep track on a daily basis of all the hours
they work, the punching in and the punching out, when they were given meals, when they were given vacations, and my guess is that Betty White
didn`t do that, nor does anybody in this situation. So this woman is going to have a payday and so is her lawyer.
GRACE: Well, wait. So you invite somebody to come live in your -- oh, that`s Mary Tyler Moore because there`s Ed Asner. OK, let me understand
this, Karen Conti. So you let a person live in your home and you have to provide -- did you say they have got to punch a time clock?
CONTI: Unless you`re going to keep good records every day. And the question is, what kind of senior person -- maybe Betty White could do this
because she had a lot of people around her, but what senior would ever be able to keep a record of when the home companion left, came, took a break,
ate a meal? It`s ridiculous. But this is what the law is in California.
GRACE: I am telling you, no jury in their right mind is going to convict Betty White. What you just saw was "The Mary Tyler Moore Show" from MTM
productions.
Now more than ever, we need heroes. CNN is marking the tenth year recognizing people who do their part to make a difference. CNN heroes.
Anderson Cooper explains. We are asking you to help us find them.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Just go to cnnheroes.com on your laptop, your tablet, or your smartphone. Click "nominate", fill in the
form, and tell us what makes your hero extraordinary. Be selective. Those honored as CNN heroes are truly dedicating their lives to serving others.
When you`re finished, click submit. You will see this message that confirms we received it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Thousands of nominations are received so how can you make yours stand out? Find tips along with nomination forms at cnnheroes.com.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:56:52] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Former employee of Betty White probably isn`t singing "Thank You For Being a Friend" right about now. The ex-
caretaker for the legendary golden girl says in a new lawsuit that she did not get overtime or breaks when she worked for White.
BETTY WHITE: It was an honest mistake. Besides, something good came out of it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That was from "Golden Girls" NBC Touchstone Television, as well as MTM productions, "The Mary Tyler Moore Show". There, you see Betty White,
and now the woman that she allowed to live in her home with her. This is from TV Land right here. I think that`s "Hot In Cleveland". There you go.
Valerie Bertinelli. Bottom line -- there`s Betty White starring, she was the star. Surrounded by these much younger actresses. But she`s the star,
right? And now, out of the blue, Alan Duke, leadstories.com, along comes this woman that has worked with her for 20 years, living under her roof.
Putting her feet under the table with her as Betty White fed her, supported her, let her live there, and now she`s biting the hand that fed her and
claiming, what, Betty White didn`t give her enough money? Really?
DUKE: Well, we don`t know what the falling out was, but for some reason, on March 11, she lost her job, left her job, and immediately went to a
lawyer because it was within days that she had the lawsuit filed against Betty White asking for back pay for 22 years.
GRACE: Whoa. OK, I still say, Mike Duffy, if she was unhappy, why didn`t she leave? She stayed 22 years. She was so miserable she stayed half of
her life.
MIKE DUFFY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, well Nancy, this is Betty White. I mean, she is an Emmy nominated actress, she`s sharp as a tack. You can see
that latest commercial that she was in. This woman made some very strong allegations and I think that they`re going to stick.
GRACE: Well they need a jury trial. Let`s stop and remember, American hero, 5-year-old Allison Anderwald saved her mom`s life after she had a
seizure in the middle of the pool. Allison pulling her mom to safety before going for help. Allison Anderwald, American hero.
Happy birthday to a friend of the show. Isn`t she beautiful? Frances Sue Anthony, wife of Methodist minister Wayne Anthony, mother, practicing
psychologist. She has devoted her life to others. Happy birthday, Frances Sue.
And happy birthday to our superstar, Stacey Newman. Stacey and I have been together since way back when at Court TV. Everyone, tonight, Thursday,
marks the beginning of the end of the Christian holy week with the last supper. Monday, Thursday. To all of you, a blessed Easter. "Forensic
Files" up next. Thank you to our guests as always, especially to you for inviting all of us into your home. Nancy Grace signing off. I`ll see you
tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, good night, friend.
END
