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Nancy Grace
911 Tapes and Surveillance Video Show Man Luring 8-year-Old Away From Her Family to Her Death; Caught on Tape; The Murder of Teresa Sievers. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired March 28, 2016 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, Jacksonville. A desperate mom calls 911 after her 8-year-old daughter vanishes from a
Walmart superstore. After a frantic search, authorities locate Cherish`s tiny body bloody, half-clothed, submerged in murky water. Does grainy
surveillance video and a just obtained 911 call leave behind clues in the 8-year-old girl`s disappearance?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) what if he kill her?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s Cherish Perrywinkle in the orange dress. You can see Cherish and that man walk away from the rest of the family
together. You can see they stop outside the McDonald`s inside the store for about 40 seconds, then walk out the front doors together and then walk
to his van.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I hope to God he doesn`t kill her! I hope to God he doesn`t rape her!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Mystery surrounding the murder of gorgeous young Dr. Teresa Sievers, bludgeoned dead in the luxury kitchen of her upscale Florida home,
the Lee County sheriff declaring, We got our man. Sievers`s husband arrested in the brutal murder of his wife.
Breaking right now, caught on tape. Does a tipster, who turns out to be a friend, hammer the nail in the defense coffin?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) he tells me that she was bludgeoned to death.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We got our man, stoic, emotional, emotion there (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was hit in the back of the head 17 times!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight, to Jacksonville. A desperate mother calls 911 after her 8-year-old daughter vanishes from a Walmart superstore. After a frantic
search, authorities locate the 8-year-old girl, Cherish`s, tiny body bloody, half-clothed, submerged in murky water.
But tonight, does grainy surveillance video and a just obtained 911 call leave behind clues in the 8-year-old girl`s disappearance?
The first thing I want to do before we go to the 911 call is show you the video. Justin, let`s roll back the video of Cherish Perrywinkle, just 8
years old. There she is. Take a look at her. She`s there with her mom, the siblings. The mom is picking out stuff. This guy that the family has
met earlier is there. Take a look at little Cherish.
Right now, I want to go to the 911 call and the clues it leaves behind.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: Jacksonville 911 (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m at Walmart. And Cherish has been taken!
911 OPERATOR: What do you mean?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Taken by a stranger. I can`t find her!
911 OPERATOR: OK, ma`am. How old is -- you say you`re at the Walmart on Lem (ph) Turner?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I am.
911 OPERATOR: OK. Where did you last see her at?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Walmart. I met a man today at Dollar General. He saw that I was struggling to buy them some clothes. He drove us here to
buy us some clothes. And the only reason I went with him, because he said his wife was going to be here. And I told him I don`t take rides with
strangers.
911 OPERATOR: Is she a white or black female?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: What color shirt?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t know what color she`s wearing because I`m panicking right now! I`m trying not to panic.
911 OPERATOR: OK. And she was last seen with this man?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. He said he was going to McDonald`s (INAUDIBLE) been there because the store is closed right now.
911 OPERATOR: OK. Is he a white man or a black man?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A white man. He`s got white short hair and he`s got dark eyebrows.
911 OPERATOR: OK, dark, short hair?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, he`s got white hair and dark eyebrows.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I want to go straight out to Larry Hannan, court reporter with "The Florida Times-Union." Larry, thank you for being with us.
Let me understand what happened. They`re at not just a regular Walmart, which in itself is huge. They`re at a Walmart superstore, which are
gigantic.
While we`re talking, Justin, I`d like to see this video. Hey, look at this! Look at the man in question talking to the family.
[20:05:03]Larry Hannan, let me ask you a very narrow question. How did the family get acquainted with this guy to start with? It wasn`t there in the
Walmart. Wasn`t it at a Target?
LARRY HANNAN, "FLORIDA TIMES-UNION" (via telephone): It was actually at a Dollar General.
GRACE: Dollar General. OK.
HANNAN: He saw them coming out and offered to help them buy clothes and offered them a ride to Walmart.
GRACE: So Larry, was the mom -- she didn`t have her credit card. She didn`t have enough cash. For whatever reason, he picked up on that, right?
HANNAN: Right. And like many predators, he spotted weakness and he realized...
GRACE: Whoa, whoa! Hold on!
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: What you`re seeing right now is the Family Dollar (sic). Let`s go back to the Family Dollar, if you can do that, Justin.
So Larry, he meets them -- there they are. She`s coming in the Family Dollar, which is not far away -- Dollar General. Thank /you. The Dollar
General, and that`s where he spots them. He must have been following them around in there, Larry. So she`s having trouble paying, for whatever
reason. And then what happens, Larry?
HANNAN: He tells here that he`s going to meet his wife at Walmart and offers them a ride and says he has $100 gift certificate and he`s willing
to buy her and her children some clothes.
GRACE: So he`s got a gift card, he says. All right. Now, they all get into the car with him, including the mother, is that right, Larry?
HANNAN: Yes. The mother and the three children, Cherish and her...
GRACE: OK.
HANNAN: ... two siblings.
GRACE: They all go together. All right. And they go to -- straight to the Walmart superstore?
HANNAN: Yes.
GRACE: Then what happens? Let`s take the video in the Walmart from the beginning, Justin. Go ahead.
HANNAN: Well, she -- they shop for about an hour, I think, Nancy. They filled up a whole cart of clothes. And you know, he was -- they never
found out where the wife was because there was no wife. But he was apparently charming and...
GRACE: Oh! Oh! Larry, that`s killing me! Oh, dear Lord in heaven! So this whole time, they`re really up and down the aisles at the Walmart...
HANNAN: Yes.
GRACE: ... he`s devising a plan. At least, that`s what I think he`s doing. This girl walks through the doors of a Walmart superstore. She is
never seen alive again. Her body has been found nearby, half-submerged in murky water. She is bloody. She is half-clothed.
Let`s see what`s happening. Look at him looking on as Mommy shop. She thinks he`s going to be their savior and get them the clothing. It looks
like they`re in the underwear and the socks department. She`s getting necessities for her children, and this guy miraculously is going to help
her.
Now, look at that. Did you see that? He`s been with them now going on two hours.
And Meredyth Censullo joining me -- let`s stay on the video -- investigative reporter out of Tampa. What does he say, Meredyth, to get
the mom to let him take the girl? Where does he claim -- this is after Family, Dollar General, what, the Dollar Store. They leave there. They
drive over here together. They spend over an hour shopping for necessities. This mom is not buying things for herself. She`s getting
socks and underwear and things like that for her children.
How does he get her to let her -- let him take her?
MEREDYTH CENSULLO, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Well, like you said, they were in the Walmart for about two hours. So now it`s getting late and he said,
Well, you know, what? Let`s go get us all something to eat.
So there was a McDonald`s in the front of this really big Walmart. So he said, OK, why don`t I go up and we`ll get something to eat. So Cherish
actually went along...
GRACE: Wait a minute! Wait a minute! Meredyth, are you saying the McDonald`s is in the Walmart, or is it outside the -- it`s in the Walmart
superstore.
CENSULLO: Right.
GRACE: So the mom -- OK, I`m glad you told me that. That is a subtle but important difference, Meredyth, because the mom doesn`t even think they`re
leaving the store. She thinks they`re just going up to the front and they`re eating within the store.
Hold on, Meredyth. I`ve got the 911 call ready. Let`s roll it, Justin.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He said his name was Don. He said he was supposed to meet his wife here, and his wife never showed up and I couldn`t figure out
why. His wife didn`t even show up at Dollar General.
911 OPERATOR: He told you that he -- y`all were going to meet his wife at the Walmart?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. First, she was supposed to show up at Dollar General, and then he was going to meet with her at Walmart. And we`ve been
here probably two hours. And she didn`t show up. And I have this cart full of clothes, and he said he was going to pay for it with a $100 gift
card. And I -- I had a bad feeling. I thought, Well -- I feel like pinching myself because this is too good to be true.
So I got to the checkout, he`s not here. I`m hoping he`s not raping her right now because I`ve had that done to me. And it`s not -- it`s not fun!
[20:10:10]She`s supposed to go to California in the morning (INAUDIBLE) the plane. And he knows this. I told him this. He knew when the store was
closing. I had a bad feeling about him!
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Marc Klaas with me, president, founder of Klaas Kids Foundation. He has devoted his life to missing children since his daughter, Polly, was
kidnapped.
Marc, just hearing the mom on the 911 call -- I have been so hard on this mom, what I`ve learned about the story and researched the story. But when
you think about it, Marc Klaas, yes, it was wrong. But in her mind, the McDonald`s was just around the corner, inside the same store!
She didn`t have a chance up against this predator. She didn`t have a chance. He had been scoping them out all the way back to the Family Dollar
or Dollar General, or whatever it was, Marc.
MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: No, you`re absolutely correct, Nancy. And my heart breaks for her, as well. It`s terrible losing a child. And
certain people -- sometimes people don`t get over it.
But you know what? She admits on the 911 call that she had a bad feeling about him...
GRACE: Oh!
KLAAS: ... yet she turned over custody to him. It makes absolutely no sense in a rational world to do something like that.
GRACE: Let`s see what we can learn from that 911. Listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: OK, how long have you been looking for her? When was the last time you saw her? How long ago?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: About half an hour ago.
(CROSSTALK)
911 OPERATOR: You`ve been looking for her for a half an hour?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. There`s nobody in the store. And he knew the store was closing. He said he was going to McDonald`s. She went with him.
I should have told her to stay with me.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:16:11]UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is the Dollar General where Rayne Perrywinkle and her three daughters were shopping when she says they met
Donald Smith.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I had a strange feeling about him when I first met him. And he took her to the dressing room twice.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She says she was struggling to afford clothes for her daughters, and Smith overheard and offered to buy them for her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I had a bad feeling about him!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We get just obtained 911 call from Mommy and surveillance within the Dollar Store (sic) and the Walmart superstore. This little girl, just
8 years old, is kidnapped from the superstore. Her body is found shortly after. She is half-clothed, submerged in murky water.
Tonight, we want answers. Listen to this 911 call. I want you to hear something very, very significant. We learned something about the alleged
perpetrator. Listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: You think she`s been taken? You say you have other kids with you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I do. He was -- he was -- he was giving (INAUDIBLE) too much attention. He wanted her to buy these really tall
shoes that were women`s shoes, and I told him no and said they`re too high for her. I wouldn`t even wear shoes that high. Maybe he was grooming her.
I hope to God he doesn`t kill her! I hope to God he doesn`t rape her!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to court reporter with "The Florida Times-Union," Larry Hannan. Larry, again, thank you for being with us. Did you hear
that? The mom -- oh, right there, guys. The McDonald`s is off to one side. I`m going to come back to that.
But Larry, in the 911 call, the mom hones in on something very significant. He is asking the little girl to try on high-heeled shoes -- I think that`s
what she`s saying -- that even she, the mother, wouldn`t wear, and that he was zeroing in on her.
Hey, Justin, roll it back for me, where he keeps -- the mom is with the three little girls. He`s standing there, and he keeps talking to the one
little girl. He keeps looking at her. He keeps focusing on her while the others are shopping. That`s -- that`s what I want to see. It`s early in
the video, where they`re shopping.
What about it, Larry Hannan?
HANNAN: Well, he was -- she was clearly his target from the start, and he was sexualizing her. He apparently went into the dressing room at one
point and had her try stuff on. She was clearly the target from the beginning.
GRACE: Whoa! OK, Marc Klaas, it would be a cold day in H-E-L-L that I would let somebody go into the changing room either my boy or my girl!
Forget about it! Over my dead, cold body! I would die (ph) with my hand on their throat!
KLAAS: Well, again, Nancy, this mother made horrible choices from the moment she laid eyes on this guy. And she said that she felt badly about
him, that she didn`t have a good feeling about him. But she let him take her and her kids -- take them away from the location where they were at.
He (sic) let her focus on the girl, and he ultimately let her take her -- let him take her away.
GRACE: Meredyth Censullo, investigative reporter, the mom did not know he was taking her out of the Walmart, right? Didn`t she think they were going
to the McDonald`s which was within the superstore?
CENSULLO: Yes. She did. She -- so they obviously saw the McDonald`s as they came into the store. It`s right there near the entrance. So
according to this man, Don, he and her daughter were going to be going to that McDonald`s right therein the front of the store, and he said he was
going to buy food for everybody, so...
GRACE: OK, guys. Listen to the 911 call, this last segment. What do we learn?
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
[20:20:04]911 OPERATOR: OK. And when did you meet him today?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I met him at Dollar General in Edgewood. I was struggling with my money to buy the girls some clothes. And he saw what I
was doing, and he waited for us outside the store. And he said that he was waiting on his wife to show up. And so I waited around to meet her, and
she didn`t show up.
And then he said he was going to give us a ride over here to Walmart. And then we waited in the parking lot for maybe 20 minutes for her to show up.
She didn`t show up. So we all went into the store. We`ve been here about two hours. And she didn`t show up. And I don`t understand why he would
(INAUDIBLE) unless he`s going to rape her and kill her. That`s the only reason. And I`m wasting my time standing here.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:25:00]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That man offered to take them to Walmart and buy her family some clothes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say Smith offered to buy the family some hamburgers.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He said he was going to McDonald`s. She went with him. I should have told her to stay with me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They walked to the front of the Walmart, towards the McDonald`s, and did not stop at the McDonald`s. They walked outside and
got in his van and left.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Let me show you the photo of the alleged perpetrator, we believe, Donald James Smith -- Donald James Smith. This guy, the one we believe is
responsible, is a convicted child sex molester.
What do we know, Mike Duffy -- what do we know about his guy`s rap sheet? Who is this guy?
MIKE DUFFY, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, we know that his criminal record goes all the way back to the `70s. We know that in 1992, he was
convicted of multiple abduction attempts. In 1997, he was then arrested for exposing himself...
GRACE: Whoa! Whoa, whoa, wait!
DUFFY: ... to children...
GRACE: Hold that! Hold that up there! In 2009, he tried to pretend he was with Department of Children and Family Services to get to a child?
That`s pretty brazen! Go ahead.
DUFFY: Yes. In 2009, he called up this young girl, 9-year-old`s, grandparents, demanded that they put their girl on the phone. He said
horrible things to the young girl, and then he threatened the grandmother, saying that she needed to bring the girl to a local McDonald`s.
GRACE: Obscene, material (ph) lewd and lascivious behavior. That takes me up to `92 -- burglary. That takes me to `91. What -- are there -- keep
going.
DUFFY: Yes. Well, like I said, in 1992, he tried to abduct multiple times. He was arrested for exposing himself to young kids in 1997. He`s
been on the criminal sex offender registry since 2007. And then that last incident in 2009. Put him on the streets (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: What landed him -- Meredyth Censullo, what landed this guy on the sex offender registry?
CENSULLO: Well, the latest case was he literally, as Mike was saying, posed as a DCF worker, called and made all of these comments of a sexual
nature to a 9-year-old girl. That coupled with the earlier...
GRACE: Right.
CENSULLO: ... incident where he tried to lure a 13-year-old into his car. He tried to run after a girl. So there`s been multiple occurrences where
he...
GRACE: Right. You know what? I want to warn everybody before we get to it. Excuse me, Meredyth. You are about to see crime scene photos that can
be very disturbing.
We are talking about the disappearance of Cherish Perrywinkle, just 8 years old. There you see her leaving with whom we believe to be Donald James
Smith. That is the vehicle that we believe that she was in, just to the time of her death.
Larry, tell me about the condition of the little girl`s body and where she was found.
HANNAN: She had been raped and strangled. It was pretty gruesome. She was basically found under a log, for lack of a better word, sort of in the
water. It was just -- even police officers who`ve dealt with this for years say it was a pretty horrific scene.
GRACE: You are seeing what we believe to be the location of the child`s murder. With me right now -- please take that down -- is Kaye Smith, Dr.
Kaye Smith, sex abuse counselor and advocate, who actually counseled Donald Smith`s family.
Doctor, thank you so much for being with us.
GAYE SMITH, COUNSELED DONALD SMITH`S FAMILY (via telephone): You`re welcome. My pleasure.
GRACE: What -- what, if anything, did you learn about the alleged perpetrator?
SMITH: They loved their precious little Donnie. He lived (ph) in a lot of circles (ph), including had a girlfriend with a 12-year-old daughter that
he never touched. He was greatly loved by Grandma and Grandpa. But they never thought that he was capable of this. And it`s like most people.
People don`t realize that these sex offenders and predators are roaming around, just stalking our children.
Well, I noticed what was quoted a little bit -- a minute ago about the (INAUDIBLE) by the other gentleman on the panel here. And Donald Smith was
classified in 1977 as a mentally disturbed sex offender. He told his family he did not want out of jail.
[20:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Mystery surrounding the murder of gorgeous young doctor, Teresa Sievers. Sievers bludgeoned dead in the luxury kitchen of her upscale
Florida home.
The Lee County Sheriff declaring we got our man, Teresa Sievers` own husband arrested in the brutal murder of his wife.
Breaking now, caught on tape. Does a tipster, who we learn to be a friend of the family, hammer the nail in the defense coffin?
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
[20:35:00] CARRIE KAIN, FAMILY FRIEND: He says, "Well the thing about getting hit in the head is she couldn`t fight back" -- and he goes like
this, "she couldn`t fight back" -- and he goes, "and therefore there`d be no DNA."
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: I want you to hear the secretly recorded interrogation tapes where a friend of Mark Sievers details to police. She comes as an anonymous
tipster, she didn`t want her I.D. out there, it`s out there now.
Her information leads to the takedown of Dr. Teresa Sievers` husband. I want you to hear it for yourself in her own words. Listen.
KAIN: So he tells me that she was bludgeoned to death. He did not say with what. He said - and he goes, "You wanna hear this? She was hit on the back
of the head 17 times." And that`s exactly how he did it. And -- and ...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did he have any emotion when he said that or was he ...
KAIN: That`s how he said it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah.
KAIN: "Seventeen times." So, that was his emotion. But there were no tears.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No tears or anything?
KAIN: No. And then he said the person -- I -- he goes, "She likely died -- I was told" and I thought he said the coroner told him. "She likely died on
the second blow." he says.
I later referred back to that and he said the funeral director told me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
KAIN: OK? So, he -- so I -- I thought he said the coroner told him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
KAIN: OK. So, I don`t know if I`m wrong or I don`t remember correctly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Got you.
KAIN: But he clarified later that -- he clarified later that it was the funeral director that told him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
KAIN: He then tells me that there was no fingerprints found in the house, anywhere. I didn`t -- I just remember thinking, "How do you know that?"
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah, exactly. It`s especially that. It`s only a couple days later, you know.
KAIN: Crime scene -- this is Sunday.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Joining me, veteran Atlanta defense attorney Randy Kessler and New York defense attorney Seema Iyer.
OK, first to you, Kessler.
RANDY KESSLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes.
GRACE: Forty-eight hours have passed. That`s it.
KESSLER: Right.
GRACE: How does he know that there are no fingerprints in the whole house? How does he know the blow that likely killed her? How does he know she was
attacked from behind, Kessler?
KESSLER: Well, you know, that`s all speculation. That is maybe a good speculation or bad speculation but it`s that. it`s not hard evidence ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: No. I`m asking you a question. How would he know? Just get -- throw me a bone, Kessler.
(CROSSTALK)
KESSLER: All right. well you ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Make something up. Go ahead.
(CROSSTALK)
KESSLER: I`ll tell you what.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: I`m ready.
KESSLER: All right. I`ll admit. You convinced me by the preponderance of the evidence. But you`ve got to convince the jury beyond ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: How ...
KESSLER: ... reasonable doubt.
GRACE: OK, you know what? Forget it, Kessler. Iyer ...
KESSLER: OK, forgotten.
GRACE: ... how would he know?
SEEMA IYER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Cops. Anybody who responded to a crime scene ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Forty-eight hours.
(CROSSTALK)
IYER: ... could have known.
GRACE: The crime scene? They responded right away.
IYER: This is ridiculous. And ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: yeah, you`re right about that, Seema.
(CROSSTALK)
IYER: ... that witness who calls in, there`s no corroboration. Anyone who`s taken Psych 101 knows that you cannot judge someone by their mourning or
lack thereof.
GRACE: OK. Now, I think that was -- was the spaghetti defense where you throw it all at Nancy and see if even sticks. Guess what? It didn`t stick.
(CROSSTALK)
IYER: There is no corroboration to even a ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Let me clear something up. Number one, this particular witness, the family friend, did not try to hide her identity. She was the friend of Mark
Sievers and when he said all this, she went straight to police. She never hid her identity.
Now, here is the thing. I want to go to Matt Zarrell. Matt, here`s the deal. He`s spilling (ph) all this off just 48 hours later. Now, how many
weeks, how many days did they stay to complete that crime scene? Because we covered it the hole following two weeks and they were still processing that
scene, remember?
They didn`t know whether there were prints in there or not in the whole home, 36 hours.
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: No, it wasn`t until even, Nancy, on the second or third week before they even took off the side door to start
investigating.
GRACE: Yeah.
ZARRELL: They were nowhere close at this point.
GRACE: OK, guys. More of the former-friend-of-Mark-Sievers-turned-tipster. Listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
KAIN: He says, "The thing about her getting hit in the head" -- I said "Well, you know, maybe se didn`t know what happened. You know, so maybe she
didn`t suffer and she didn`t know what happened." You know, trying to comfort him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah.
KAIN: And he says, "Well the thing about getting hit in the head is she couldn`t fight back" -- and he goes like this, "she couldn`t fight back" --
and he goes, "and therefore there`d be no DNA."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And he also mentioned something about her being attacked from behind?
[20:40:00] KAIN: That`s what he said.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah.
KAIN: So the thing about her being attacked, because in the beginning when he said, "Do you wanna know what happened to her?"
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
KAIN: He told me she was attacked from behind. She was bludgeoned and it was from behind.
At the funeral, I started thinking his tears are fake.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Joining me, Randy Kessler, Atlanta; Seema Iyer, New York.
OK, Kessler, I`m going to give you a chance to strike two.
KESSLER: All right.
GRACE: Did you hear that? He`s talking to her, hey, you want me to tell you how it happened? She was attacked from behind. Really? How did he know
that? How would he know how the murder went down?
KESSLER: He was not there. He did not do it. If somebody told him, then that might be a different issue, a different problem.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: What are you saying, Kessler?
KESSLER: You have an eyewitness showing him doing it or seeing him tell somebody to do it?
GRACE: Put Kessler and I up, please.
KESSLER: OK.
GRACE: OK, Kessler and I are -- Randy?
KESSLER: Yes, ma`am?
GRACE: Just recently, OK, you know my father passed away.
KESSLER: I`m sorry. I didn`t know that.
GRACE: And -- and we were at the -- the night before his service and I mentioned to the funeral director, I`m so happy, he looks so beautiful
because, you know, he didn`t look like this right before he passed away.
The funeral director didn`t start telling me what they did to make my father so beautiful. No! There is no way, Kessler, that the funeral
director would go into a discussion of how Teresa Sievers was murdered.
(CROSSTALK)
IYER: Nancy, can I explain that?
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: No, you cannot. I`m speaking to Kessler.
IYER: OK. Sorry.
GRACE: Put a pin in it. So, Kessler, I don`t believe that for one minute ...
(CROSSTALK)
KESSLER: Well ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... that the funeral ...
(CROSSTALK)
KESSLER: ... well you don`t have to.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... director told him there were 17 blows and it was the second blow that killed -- he knew because he arranged it.
KESSLER: well, it`s off topic. Personally, I`m sorry he didn`t ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: I don`t even know what you`re saying is off topic. It`s directly -- you know, what?
(CROSSTALK)
IYER: Let me talk. I can explain.
GRACE: OK, Iyer, go for it.
IYER: OK, on the death certificate, it would have statements from the medical examiner. So, therefore, the funeral director would have gotten
that statement.
GRACE: Put her back up. And when, Seema Iyer, was the death certificate issued?
IYER: Before the services. Therefore, that`s how they had access to the information.
GRACE: IN relation to this conversation. The death certificate was not released before this conversation. Ergo ...
(CROSSTALK)
IYER: But the funeral director has access to information from the coroner, and that`s how Sievers got the information.
GRACE: It was the ...
[20:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
KAIN: ... so he tells me that she was bludgeoned to death.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We got our man. Stoic, emotion -- no emotion there.
KAIN: She was hit in the back of the head.
"Seventeen times."
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: We have just obtained tonight, evidence from a so-called tipster that we learned to be a Sievers family friend -- a friend of Mark Sievers.
Her information has thrown the defense into a tailspin. Every word she says puts a new nail in the defense coffin. Listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
KAIN: ... asked was she asleep? You know, and he said, "No, she died in the kitchen, she was attacked from behind." That`s another detail.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah.
KAIN: So I knew she died in the kitchen and he says this is where she was found. And he kind of goes like this, you know, by the refrigerator between
the sink and the refrigerator or the counter there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yep.
KAIN: And I said, "Is that your pantry?" I know it`s his pantry but I just say, `is that your pantry` and he goes "Yeah, check this out" and he swings
open the door and there`s a big chunk cut out of the door. And I go `That`s how the did it. They were in the pantry.`
I have always said they, and I don`t know why. I will continue to say what I say. And he goes, "hmm." And that was really weird.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Bob Alexander, News Director at 92.5 FOX News. Bob, thank you for being with us, joining us form Florida. Bob, it`s amazing to
me all the details that Mark Sievers knew about his wife`s murder.
Hey, let`s see a shot of inside the kitchen, please, Justin. Because this description he -- they`re talking about him coming -- the killer coming out
of the pantry, that is -- I`d say, I don`t know if that`s a laundry room or the pantry. Show me some more. There you go. There you go. Yeah, that might
be the pantry actually.
What do you make of it, Bob Alexander, that he knew al of these details?
BOB ALEXANDER, 92.5 FOX NEWS, NEWS DIRECTOR: Well, with all due respect to the attorneys, Nancy, the Lee County Sheriff`s Office have stated there is
no way that Mark Sievers would have had the information that he was able to explain to his friend Carrie Kain, especially things like fingerprint.
There is no way that the investigators would be giving him that information especially just 48 hours after the murder.
GRACE: Also with me, Teresa Sievers` ex-husband, Kenny Cousins. Mr. Cousins, thank you for being with us. So, he, Dr. Sievers` husband, Mark
Sievers, knew all of these details of the murder before they were ever made public, Kenny?
KENNY COUSINS, DR. TERESA SIEVERS` EX-HUSBAND: Well, at this point, Nancy, nothing surprises me as this continues to unfold.
[20:50:00] GRACE: Everyone, with me, Teresa Sievers` ex-husband. When you were at the ceremony for Dr. Sievers, you had a premonition of sorts, Kenny
Cousins. Now a lot of people don`t believe in that. It`s certainly not admissible in court, but I`m very interested to hear it. What happened?
COUSINS: Well, actually, Nancy, about halfway through the service, as you said I had a premonition, and it really came out of nowhere, I had a
premonition that whoever had done this could be in this service.
And at this point, it was a week later, I knew nothing about how she had been killed. I hadn`t read anything. I had not heard any ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Right.
COUSINS: ... speculation. And subsequently, when I was leaving the service I was saying good-bye to Teresa`s mom and step-dad and some other friends
and I noticed out of the corner of my eye that Mark was leaving, and Mark was leaving with another gentleman who I did know, but to myself I thought
this person looks so much like Mark, I assumed it was Mark`s brother or a relative.
And my thought from that point was that, I don`t know, I thought it was good that Mark had him with him ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: You had that premonition that she was murdered. Well, wait until you hear this, Kenny Cousins. Guys, listen to this.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
KAIN: When they talked about going swimming, I don`t know how this came up, maybe taking the girls swimming, something like that, and Mark kind of
mentioned, "Oh, we can all go back to the house and go swimming tonight." And I`m going, `really?`
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah, is that really appropriate at this point?
KAIN: The house and next -- so he says to Teresa`s mom. "Well, we can go back to the house." And she goes, "No, no." Like that. I`m like, `Somebody
needs to kick you.`
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Go back to the house for a pool party. OK, Kessler, this, I believe -- of course I`m just a lawyer, not a CPA, but I believe this would be
strike three for you, OK?
A pool party? Did you hear Sievers? And this is Mark Sievers` friend, his long-time friend -- about how inappropriate -- he goes, hey, my place, pool
party. After his wife`s funeral. Randy?
KESSLER: Yeah, that is 100 percent inappropriate. It`s not proof of murder, it`s not proof of guilt, it`s not proof of conspiracy.
GRACE: Did you say it was? I cannot believe ...
(CROSSTALK)
KESSLER: I agree, it`s inappropriate. It`s inappropriate ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: What Iyer?
KESSLER: ... it could happen.
IYER: I cannot believe that the both of you actually believe these statements to be true. This is a woman who is clearly seeking her 15
minutes of fame.
GRACE: Really?
(CROSSTALK)
IYER: There are no ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Matt Zarrell ...
(CROSSTALK)
IYER: ... how come anyone else ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Matt, why am I still hearing that in my ear?
IYER: Nobody else is there to corroborate it.
GRACE: Matt Zarrell, this woman has not sought fame. There`s nothing could be further from the truth. Isn`t that true, Matt?
ZARRELL: Yeah. It was not actually until we requested documents that we found out about this person. She never came forward to the media. She
didn`t talk to anyone. It was us finding the documents.
[20:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
KAIN: When they talked about going swimming, I don`t know how this came up, maybe taking the girls swimming, something like that, and Mark kind of
mentioned, "Oh, we can all go back to the house and go swimming tonight." And I`m going, `really?`
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Come back to my house after my wife`s funeral, I`ll go swimming. Hey, just strap on your mankini, let`s jump in. The lawyers are arguing
there`s no playbook for grief.
But to Greg Cason, Psychologist joining us, I mean, that goes beyond an odd reaction to grief. That singles no grief, no emotion, whatsoever, about his
wife`s funeral.
GREG CASON, PSYCHOLOGIST: Yeah, I can`t help but agree with you, Nancy. That`s absolutely what it signals. That whole comment about anyone who`s
taken Psych 101 - well, I`ve taken many other psychology courses, I can tell you, grief goes well past that. It`s like you`re on a roller coaster.
So you may have a moment when you`re not in touch with the grief or the pain and you may even be laughing or joking but you don`t go on
consistently having crocodile tears and wanting to go play in the pool and hanging out with people or lasciviously wanting to talk about the crime and
talk about all the blood and guts.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: You`re right, Greg.
CASON: That`s sociopathic.
GRACE: You know, Dr. Ken Redcross, Board-Certified Internal Medicine and Concierge Doctor, Dr. Redcross, thank you for being with us. Is there any
way that, for instance, a funeral director would have known which blow out of 17 blows was the death blow?
KEN REDCROSS, BOARD-CERTIFIED INTERNAL MEDICINE AND CONCIERGE DOCTOR: No. that would not be possible, that would be a very special funeral director
that knew that.
Look, they don`t get that kind of information to be able to make almost a diagnosis that which blow actually killed someone. That takes years of
training in order to do that, Nancy.
GRACE: With me, Dr. Ken Redcross and Psychologist, Dr. Greg Cason.
Let`s remember American hero David Ortiz, El Paso, Texas Police Department. Selfless service, family man, leaves behind a beautiful wife and two
children. David Ortiz, American hero.
And I want to show you a photo of these twins (inaudible). You all asked me for photos of the twins and how they are doing. Here are my little babies,
John Dave and Lucy on Easter, after services. God has really blessed us, right?
And tonight, a very special goodnight from a friend of the show, Jolie Kessler. Isn`t she beautiful? I wonder if she`s going to go to law school
like Daddy?
"Forensic Files" up next. Thank you to our guests, but as always I want to thank you for being with us inviting all of us into your home. Nancy Grace,
signing off. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8 o`clock sharp, Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When a young woman walked outside her home to investigate a strange noise ...
[21:00:00]
END
