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Nancy Grace
Walmart 8-Year-Old Abduction, Murder Defendant Caught on Jailhouse Tape; Man Sees Hair Poking Out Of Discarded Suitcase, Finds Dead Woman Inside; Mentally Ill Convict Lies to Sperm Bank and Creates 36 Children.. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired April 11, 2016 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. A desperate mom calls 911 after her 8-year-old daughter vanishes from a Walmart superstore. After a
frantic search, authorities locate Cherish`s tiny body, bloody, half- clothed submerged in murky water, weighted down with asphalt chunks. We obtain the asphalt chunk photos.
Bombshell tonight. The case set for court today, the defense demanding secret tapes of the perp behind jailhouse walls, talking through his
toilet, through his commode, to a cellblock neighbor -- they want it all thrown out.
We obtain photos proving the 8-year-old girl fought for her life, her DNA under his nails, his DNA on her body. He insists he is not guilty.
We obtain photos that prove the 8-year-old fought for her life, her DNA under his nails, his DNA on her body.
That night, he`s pulled over. He`s soaking wet, muddy, covered in scratches. We have the photos. But he insists he is not guilty.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s Cherish Perrywinkle in the orange dress. Later, when her mother calls 911, she recalls a red flag from when they
were here in the shoe aisle.
RAYNE PERRYWINKLE, MOTHER: Maybe he was grooming her. I hope to God he doesn`t kill her! I hope to God he doesn`t rape her!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: A man taking out trash notices a black suitcase next to the garbage with ladies` hair coming out. Tonight, we get a positive ID on the woman`s
body. She`s a beautiful 21-year-old, Shawna Hain (ph).
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A black suitcase on the ground, a young woman`s dead body stuffed inside. Police say a man who lives nearby made the gruesome
discovery.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He looked at it, determined that it looked a little suspicious.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I started talking with him. And then I looked at a suitcase, and I just see hair hanging out. And I`m, like, Is that a dead
body over there?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Your worst nightmare comes true. A mentally ill ex-con lies to a sperm bank, describing himself as highly intelligent, attractive, a
Renaissance man studying neuroscience. He creates 36 sperm bank children, a mentally ill convicted felon? Mentally ill ex-felon and sperm bank
should not be in the same sentence!
Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. A desperate mom calls 911 after her 8-year-old girl vanishes at Walmart superstore. After a frantic search, authorities locate
Cherish`s tiny body, bloody, half-clothed, submerged in murky water, weighted down with asphalt chunks. We have the asphalt photos.
The case set for court today where the defense demands secret tapes of the perp behind jailhouse walls talking through his toilet to a cellblock
neighbor. They want them all thrown out.
We obtain photo that prove the 8-year-old girl fought for her life, her DNA under his nails, his DNA under -- on her body. He`s insisting that he`s
not guilty.
We obtain photos that prove the 8-year-old fought for her life, her DNA under his nails, his DNA on her body.
That night, he`s pulled over. He`s soaking wet, muddy, covered in scratches. We have the photos. But he insists he is not guilty.
But first, breaking news. The female body found dead on U of T campus ID`d as freshman coed from Oregon Haruka Weiser. Tonight, an arrest.
First to you very quickly, Matt Zarrell. Who is this guy, and how was he isolated? How do we know police got the right guy?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): OK, so the perp is 17- year-old Meechaiel Criner. He has been arrested for the murder of UT freshman Haruka Weiser.
Now, we know about the surveillance video that police released last week, but a further investigation of the surveillance video saw Criner at a van
(ph) around 9:30 AM. The victim, Haruka Weiser, is seen leaving her class. She is seen walking on video by the suspect. She`s looking at her cell
phone. She`s walking toward the alumni center.
As Haruka passes the suspect, police say the suspect watches her, puts his kickstand down on his bicycle, reaches into the back of his pants with his
hand and pulls out what appeared to be a shiny, rigid object.
[20:05:05]GRACE: Not only that, we learn that police find this guy burning the evidence, Haruka`s backpack. This was her bicycle. That`s the
evidence supporting the arrest of this man.
Right now, straight to the disappearance of Cherish Perrywinkle.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is the Dollar General where Rayne Perrywinkle and her three daughters were shopping when she says they met Donald Smith.
RAYNE PERRYWINKLE, MOTHER: I had a strange feeling about him when I first met him, and he took her to the dressing room twice.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She says she was struggling to afford clothes for her daughters, and Smith overheard and offered to buy them for her.
PERRYWINKLE: I had a bad feeling about him!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Larry Hannan, the courts reporter with "The Florida Times-Union." So many developments in the disappearance and murder of 8-
year-old Cherish Perrywinkle. We find out that that night, the night that he is arrested, the alleged perp in this case, Donald James Smith, a
convicted child sex predator, was pulled over in his white van. At the time he was pulled over, he was soaking wet, muddy, covered in grass and
cuts.
Tonight, we obtain photos from police files of his shoes, wet and covered with grass. Hold the photo. This is one of the several photos that we
have obtained. Let`s move to the next photo, please. That`s one picture. This is another. Notice the grass on the top. There`s also grass on the
bottom of the shoe, as well, and on his pants. Let`s see the rest of the photos. Take a look at these.
Very significant, Larry Hannan. Why?
LARRY HANNAN, "FLORIDA TIMES-UNION" (via telephone): Significant because of where he -- where the person who killed Cherish Perrywinkle left the
body. He basically left her in a creek. And you look at those pictures, and this looks like someone who`s trudged into a creek and gone (ph) around
for a while.
GRACE: Let`s see the aerial shot that shows this lake, that shows where this happened. No, remember, this is right behind a church. Hone in,
please. There you see the body of water. This is where a white van was found parked. And in that creek, behind the church is Cherish
Perrywinkle`s body.
Not only that, the grass -- we obtain photos of tread marks from his van. Let`s pull up that photo -- tread marks of his van leaving the crime scene,
more aerial photos showing where her body was found.
There are the tread marks. Look at this. This is highly significant, these photos that we have just obtained from WJXT from the police files.
Joining me right now is a special guest from Pierre, South Dakota, Eddie Aamold, forensic biologist with the South Dakota state forensics lab.
Sir, thank you so much for being with us. Let`s go back to the shoes. Sir...
EDDIE AAMOLD, FORENSIC BIOLOGIST (via telephone): Yes, Nancy.
GRACE: Thank you for being with us. This is very, very important. And we saw the science being used in the tot mom, Casey Anthony, trial when little
Caylee`s body was found half submerged in water. This body was found submerged halfway. She was half naked, and she was thrust under a log, her
body weighted down with asphalt blocks.
While we are talking, Liz, could you pull up the asphalt block photo?
Eddie Aamold joining us. Eddie, question. The grass, the palmettos -- this is an actual asphalt chunk that weighted this child`s body down, all
of this breaking news tonight in the prosecution of the rape and murder of Cherish Perrywinkle.
Can police, can a lab trace this grass back off of his shoes and pants? I mean, he was soaking wet, covered in mud and scratches, but I`m focusing on
the grass first. Can it be traced back to this water, Eddie?
AAMOLD: Yes, Nancy. And it can -- it can be very difficult. It depends specifically on certain components that would be very unique to that
particular material. So if there are chemical components that are unique to the grass or the water, there is the potential there that there could be
some kind of trace analysis done on this material.
GRACE: Eddie, how do they do it? Joining us is an expert from the South Dakota state forensic lab that specializes in this. He has a forensic
biologist.
[20:10:00]So what do they do? Do they isolate the type of grass and the possible components in the water? For instance, if there`s a certain type
of mud or a certain type of pollutant, or the sediment at the bottom of the water could be unique. How do you compare this under a microscope to tell
me the grass and the dirt on his shoes matches the grass and the dirt where her body is found?
AAMOLD: Yes, Nancy, it can be done. You need to specifically to look at the various components. You do need to do various comparisons with a
microscope, and you can do certain chemical analysis even perhaps if there are certain components that are -- would be unique to that -- that
particular area. You may be able to do that with a chemical analysis or microscopic analysis in the laboratory.
GRACE: Also, we learn tonight that there is a witness from within the Walmart superstore, Larry Hannan, court reporter, "Florida Times-Union."
We know the mom thought that the little girl was going to the front of the store.
Let`s see the layout of the store with the McDonald`s in it. But a witness that is just emerging says that they hear the alleged perp, Donald James
Smith, say, We`re going to get cheeseburgers. And he is saying this out in the parking lot.
Is that true, Larry?
HANNAN: ... be surprised if the state has a witness like because it appears as if Donald James Smith got Cherish into his van by telling her
that, We`re going to get some food and bring it back here. But...
GRACE: You know --
HANNAN: ... quite a few people saw them walking out of the store.
GRACE: Right. You know, Larry, those are chilling words when you`re leading a little 8-year-old girl away from her mother. Justin Freiman,
apparently, a victim -- a witness has emerged that sees and hears the defendant say, We`re going to go get cheeseburgers. And those are some of
the last words that he used to lure the little girl into the murder van, Justin.
JUSTIN FREIMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): That`s right, Nancy. There are reports of that witness saying that they saw him and that he
said, We`re going to get cheeseburgers, which -- which goes along with the story that he was going to take them for food.
GRACE: There you see him. He keeps focusing on the little 8-year-old girl. And there are a slew of missing children in Florida. Also, we get
tonight, obtain a trashbag from the crime scene. Let`s see that video of the trashbag. It is a Walmart superstore trashbag.
And what is so significant about that is that it can be traced back most likely to that very Walmart superstore.
Also, we learn tonight a lot of big breaks in the case just today, the case set to be in court, where the defendant is trying to have all of these
secretly recorded phone conversations thrown out of evidence.
And joining me there on the location in Jacksonville, Janet Johnson, veteran criminal defense attorney. Janet, from what we understand, he was
actually talking through the toilet? He`s in isolation by himself, so they talk through the toilet into the next cell?
JANET JOHNSON, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I had that exact same thing happen, Nancy. My client was in isolation. And I thought, Well, at least
he won`t be confessing his murder to anybody. And he was talking through the toilet. So that happened. The difference here is that they got a
recording of it, so you can`t just say that the guy`s lying because he`s jumping on someone`s case to get less time. It`s recorded, and that`s why
it was continued.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:17:35]UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is Cherish Perrywinkle, a vibrant 8- year-old girl who liked to play dress-up and loved to sing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As he walked to the front of the store, he took our 8- year-old victim with him.
PERRYWINKLE: And I don`t understand why he would (INAUDIBLE) unless he`s going to rape her and kill her. That`s the only reason.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police went to the Walmart and searched for the little girl, but no luck until it was too late.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Tonight, torpedo to the defense. We find out the 8-year-old girl fought for her life. We find out her DNA is under his fingernails, his DNA
is all over her body.
We obtain more photos of the inside of the van where we believe that she was assaulted and murdered. Not only that, we get evidence he had a friend
tear out the back seat of the van after the girl`s murdered!
First of all, the cuts to his body -- Liz, let`s see the cuts to this guy`s body. We`re talking about sex predator Donald James Smith. Now, he`s
given several different stories about that night, including that he was at AA.
OK, whoa! Here we go, cuts. There`s the one along his elbow. There are also cuts on his knees and legs. Let`s see those pictures. There are the
cuts on the hand. The abrasions on the knee and the legs are very telling, carpet burns.
To Dr. Lee Norman, chief medical officer, University of Kansas Hospital. Can a doctor differentiate between carpet burns, such as the ones he would
obtain if he were kneeling in the inside of that van? Can I see the inside of the van, please Liz?
Can you distinguish carpet burns, Doctor?
DR. LEE NORMAN, UNIVERSITY OF KANSAS HOSPITAL: Oh, yes. They`re completely different than scratch wounds or bite wounds. It`s a real broad
abrasion. It would clearly be different.
GRACE: The carpet in that van has been taken into the crime lab. Also, we are learning that a friend -- isn`t this correct, Larry Hannan with "The
Florida Times-Union" -- he has a friend that actually calls 911 and divulges that this guy, Donald James Smith, asked him to rip out the back
seat of his van?
[20:20:00]HANNAN: Yes, that happened a few days before the -- Cherish went missing. But he said he lived -- (INAUDIBLE) guy lived with Smith`s mother
and he said, The guy asked me for my help to take out the back seats.
GRACE: So he had been planning this for days in advance. Joining me right now -- unleash the lawyers, Janet Johnson, criminal defense lawyer out of
Jacksonville, Robin Ficker, renowned defense attorney out of Maryland, Kirby Clements, veteran trial lawyer out of Atlanta.
First of all, Janet Johnson, the defense is fighting tooth and claw -- tooth and claw, Janet -- to have these tape recordings thrown out of
evidence. Now, I`m learning from you that these were most likely taken as he talks into the toilet in his ISO, isolated jail cell, to his neighbor.
How does that work?
JOHNSON: Well, you know, they pass notes through the toilets. Now, the question is why because they know they`re in jail and people are snitching.
I mean, we all know about jailhouse snitches. But it happens all the time.
I had a client that confessed to three different people through the toilet. But I was able to say, Well, those guys are jumping on his case. They`re
trying to work off time. What this guy did is passed a note to the sheriff`s office and said, Look, this guy is talking to me through the
toilet, I can help you.
And they did something that I don`t think they`ve ever done, at least in Jacksonville. They recorded it on the other end of the toilet. Now, the
defense attorney`s a friend of mine and she`s trying to get it thrown out, and you know, her argument in court -- she hasn`t told me this privately,
but her argument is it violates his 6th Amendment and 4th Amendment rights. There is no -- that`s not going to work. There is no right to privacy in
jail...
GRACE: In the jail, unless they argue, Janet, that he was -- the other guy, Deviney, was an agent of the state.
Unleash the lawyers, Robin Ficker and Kirby Clements. So what we`re talking about is him talking about the disappearance and murder of Cherish
and other murders. OK. There are scores of missing children in Florida, scores of unsolved missing children. I want you to take a look at the
bottom of your screen. We`re about to show some of them.
To Robin Ficker. This guy allegedly incriminates himself on another kidnap and murder and talks about the Cherish case. Give me one good reason --
any one of these little girls we`re showing you could have been his other victim. Look at these little girls` faces, Robin Ficker, and give me one
good reason those tapes should not come in.
Apparently, the jail has never done this before. They`ve never been introduced at trial before. But whatever he said on those tapes -- and
that`s why they were set to be in court today, to suppresses the tapes.
Why shouldn`t we hear them, Ficker?
ROBIN FICKER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: This other criminal in jail has done this before. He`s an agent of the state. It`s just as if they had a sheriff
going through the toilet to the defendant.
GRACE: OK, Kirby Clements, I doubt a sheriff is going to have his ear stuck down a toilet in a men`s isolated cell block, all right, number one.
And Ficker is arguing there`s an expectation of privacy in the jail. Whatever is on these tapes, it`s explosive, Kirby, because the defense is
fighting tooth and nail to keep it out.
This guy may very well have incriminated himself in not only Cherish`s case, but another case.
KIRBY CLEMENTS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: That may be true, but that means they shouldn`t come in in this case in the first part. And secondly, that man
became an agent of the police. This man said he didn`t want to talk to the police. He had a lawyer, and they had to recruit some snitch inside the
jail to violate his constitutional rights.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:27:52]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That man offered to take them to Walmart and buy her family some clothes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say Smith offered to buy the family some hamburgers.
PERRYWINKLE: He said he was going to McDonald`s. She went with him. I should have told her to stay with me!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They walked to the front of the Walmart, towards the McDonald`s, and did not stop at McDonald`s. They walked outside and got in
his van and left.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: This case set to be in court today. And tonight, we are learning about a history of bizarre behavior on the defendant`s part.
Joining me is Kaye Smith, Dr. Smith, sex abuse counselor, advocate who`s counseled Donald Smith`s family. Dr. Smith, could you tell me about an
incident his family told you about that occurred when he, Smith, was just 10 years old?
KAYE SMITH, SEX ABUSE COUNSELOR AND ADVOCATE (via telephone): Well, let me begin when he was 8 when his then at the time (INAUDIBLE) his father, who
was a psychiatrist, said you could horsewhip this boy and he -- it would not have any effect on his behavior.
Then they went back and told the story when he was 8 years old, how he showed up all bloody, hands bloody, and in his hands was a rabbit foot.
And when they asked him, What on earth Donny, he just looked at them and said, Well, the rabbit was already dead, as if it didn`t matter.
But his behavior got progressively worse. And this is, again, his family telling me this. And I`m thinking why didn`t the other therapists see
this? Why couldn`t anybody else see this? At 15 and 16 years old, Nancy, he was breaking into homes. Most teenagers will do that to get
prescription drugs or DVDs is they (INAUDIBLE) for money. But not Donald Smith. He was breaking into homes while the families were asleep, and to
me, that`s right out of the movie by Truman Capote or the book "In Cold Blood."
I shudder to think about what would have happened to these families had they awakened while his creepy self was wandering around their home.
GRACE: At age 15. Also with me, in addition to Dr. Kaye Smith out of Jacksonville, Chrystina and Stephanie Thornton, a victim of this guy and
her mother. He tried to kidnap her. She lived to tell the story.
Chrystina and Stephanie, thank you for being with us.
[20:30:06] STEPHANIE THORNTON, VICTIM`S MOTHER: Yes, ma`am.
GRACE: I want to go to the mother. When you hear these stories and you look at the photos of all the missing girls in Florida, I want to hear your
reaction. You saved your daughter`s life. You got between your daughter and this guy when he tried to kidnap her from a McDonald`s in the same white
van. I want to hear your reaction, ma`am.
S. THORNTON: I -- I just feel there`s more. There`s more to it.
GRACE: Do you feel there`s more what to it?
S. THORNTON: To of more of what`s going on with just cherish (ph).
GRACE: Are you saying you believe that there are more victims?
S. THORNTON: Yes, ma`am, I do.
GRACE: Why do you say that?
S. THORNTON: Just -- he`s sick. He`s sick.
[20:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: A man taking out trash notices a black suitcase next to the garbage with ladies hair coming out of it. Tonight, we get a positive
identification on the woman`s body. A beautiful, 21-year-old Shauna Haynes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Haynes, attended Grossmont in El Cajon High School and was working at the Old Spaghetti Factory in the Gaslamp where for a time
she worked with Joshua Palmer. Friends say the two dated.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was a lot of windows that look down into the parking lot where the suitcase was located. So, detectives will be combing
those apartments.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s very sad that somebody would do something like this to her. She didn`t deserve this at all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: So, a guy, unwittingly taking out his trash notices a black suitcase next to the trash can. I believe we have the photo, Liz, where trash is all
lined up and right beside it is a suitcase. He notices a woman`s long, black hair, silky black hair, coming out of the suitcase. Dan O`Donnell
joining me, anchor and reporter with WISN. Dan, walk me through what happened.
DAN O`DONNELL, WISN ANCHOR AND REPORTER: Well, what happened was, as you said, this guy coming out to put the trash cans out to the curb noticed
that one of the suitcases from inside another big trash bin had fallen out. He took a second look and saw hair coming out of the suitcase. That`s when
he called 911.
GRACE: We are showing you a shot of her, Shauna Haynes found dead, a beautiful, 21-year-old girl. Her long, silky hair zipped up into the
suitcase. It`s a miracle, frankly, Dan O`Donnell, WISN, that he even noticed it. He`s out throwing out the trash. I want to go now to Matt
Zarrell. Matt, what more can you tell me about the discovery and how was the woman -- hold on, Matt. Dr. Lee Norman, chief medical officer at
University of Kansas, how do you fold up a human body to fit in a roller board?
LEE NORMAN, UNIVERSITY OF KANSAS CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER: Yeah, that was a surprise to me, too. I can`t imagine that that was done, especially with a
medium sized roller board. I would be a very tight squeeze. She must have been a small individual.
GRACE: I think she was. This is outside a very classy hotel there, the Chadwick Hotel, and there are apparently apartments near it and a guy comes
out to throw out the trash and boom, discovers this. But Dr. Norman, physically, how could he have folded her up to fit in a roller board. Now,
we`re all surprised, okay. But you`re the ME, you`re the doctor, I`m just a trial lawyer. How can you fit a human body like that, without severing it?
NORMAN: Well, the body was not dismembered we are told, so it must have been folded and folded more to compress it that much.
GRACE: Matt Zarrell, what more do we know right now?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Okay, so we know police are investigating that someone, whoever intended to dump the suitcase did it so
that the suitcase would be taken out with the rest of the hotel trash. Police also believe that the luggage was actually inside one of the trash
cans and at some point was pulled out of the trash can before it was discovered. And police are also saying that the victim had to have been
fatally injured within the past week, but they`re still trying to determine cause of death, how long she had been dead or when the suitcase was placed
in that trash.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers joining me, Maryland defense attorney Robin Ficker, Atlanta defense attorney, Kirby Clements. Okay, Robin Ficker, as
you both know, okay, you are veteran lawyers, you`re not talking heads. You`ve tried hundreds of cases between the two of you. The jury can take
into account the defense actions before, during, and after the crime to determine a death penalty or intent, which would be for murder one. That
includes folding her up and putting her in that suitcase and zipping her hair into the suitcase, Ficker?
[20:40:00]ROBIN FICKER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: We don`t know the cause of death. She may have overdosed on some drug and killed herself. She may have been
dead already by some natural cause when she was put in there. There`s no evidence pointing at any suspect in this case that I`ve heard on this
program.
GRACE: Okay, Robin Ficker, God forbid if one of your friends fell (ph) of a heart attack, wouldn`t you call 911 or no, go grab your roller board, fold
the body up and zip their hair up and put it out by
(TECHNICAL DIFFICULTIES)
GRACE: So, Kirby Clements, give me
KIRBY CLEMENTS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, because of his actions after, number one, he didn`t dismember the body. That`s -- that`s -- that`s
important. He did put it -- the body was placed in a suitcase but...
GRACE: Oh, okay. (Inaudible) for not chopping her legs off, okay.
CLEMENTS: No, but that would be -- that would be pretty bad to dismember a body, but I would point out that agree that -- I would agree...
GRACE: This is my place, it`s not bad enough that she`s dead with her hair zipped up and she`s out on the street in a suitcase.
CLEMENTS: Well, how did she die? She could have died of an overdose and you what, people who are around people when they`re overdosing are probably
doing drugs themselves and probably don`t want to get caught so they try -- they do stupid things.
GRACE: If you think you`re turning a jury or the viewers against her for possible drug use, it`s not working.
CLEMENTS: No, I probably turn the jury...
GRACE: Hold on, Dan O`Donnell, is there any suggestion that she used drugs?
O`DONNELL: No. There has never been one bit of evidence to support that or anyone has ever suggested that she was a drug user.
GRACE: Well, can`t you tell me then what do we know the cause of death, Matt?
ZARRELL: We do not know the cause of death. They`re still working on it.
GRACE: With me right now, Kelsey Lake, a very dear friend of the victim, Shauna Haynes. Kelsey, I don`t want Shauna Haynes to just be another
statistic. Can you tell me what she was like in life?
KELSEY LAKE, SHAUNA HAYNES` FRIEND: So, the first story that I want -- would want to say is actually one of my co-workers last night when we were
at the vigil shared this memory and then now I remember it as well. So, we have Comic-Con in San Diego and it was our biggest -- busiest time of the
year and we were short on spoons.
Shauna was a bus there and you know, she struggled with having to find more spoons and take them to the dish room every five minutes and get more loss
(ph) so, saw that the restaurant needed spoons. And one day, after Comic- Con, she came in with a huge box of spoons, like, must`ve gotten there at the restaurant (inaudible) and she just came in with this box of spoons.
She was like, Chris, who was our GM at the time, I got spoons. And she was like, "Shauna, we have to order our own spoons."
She said that, "I thought that we were out of spoons, so I wanted to get them." And that`s just like the kind of person she was. She was always
loving, caring, always wanting to do stuff for people, always making sure that you are okay before anything. you know, if you looked like you were
having a bad day, what`s wrong, you know, trying to cheer you up. She was just, you know, when she walks in a room, she has a huge smile on her face.
She was a little girl and she would carry those bus stuff up and down the stairs if like nobody`s business.
[20:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK):
GRACE: Your worst nightmare comes true. A mentally ill ex-con lies to a sperm bank, describing himself as highly intelligent, attractive, a
renaissance man, who was studying neuroscience. He creates 36 sperm bank children. A mentally ill convicted felon? Mentally ill ex-felon and sperm
bank should never be in the same sentence.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: According to his sperm bank profile, donor 9623 was healthy and
(TECHNICAL DIFFICULTIES)
Donor 9623 was allegedly a college dropout and an ex-felon with a history of various mental illnesses.
GRACE: A history of mental illnesses including schizophrenia, which I believe, I`m going to the doctor on this, could be he hereditary, but
Candice Trunzo, senior news editor DailyMail.com, he`s also an ex-con. How did he describe himself to the sperm bank.
CANDICE TRUNZO, DAILYMAIL.COM, SENIOR NEWS EDITOR: Oh, he described himself as the perfect candidate as someone to donate sperm. That he was working on
his Ph.D. in neuroscience engineering. That he was eloquent, that he was of course handsome. He said that he was a drummer, a world renowned. All the
qualities that this couple -- this specific couple decided were perfect in terms of a match for the two of them. It was kind of unbelievable.
GRACE: Somehow I missed that he was a world-renowned drummer. With me, as a special guest tonight, Nancy Hirsch, who files a lawsuit against the sperm
bank, joining me out of San Francisco. Also joining me tonight is Angie Collins, also suing the sperm bank. I mean Nancy Hirsch, please, a
renaissance man, majoring in neuroscience getting his Ph.D., a world renowned drummer.
Now of course, if I saw that, I wouldn`t choose him to start with. But apparently, 36 people did. There are 36 babies out there from a lying ex-
con who is a schizophrenic. Help me out Nancy, what`s your claim.
NANCY HIRSCH, FILED LAWSUIT AGAINST SPERM BANK: Our claim is that Xytex the sperm bank was obligated to do some due diligence. All they needed to do
was to go online and it would have taken five minutes to find out that he was a felon, which is a red flag. In fact, oftentimes means if there`s
mental illness around. Why? Because...
[20:50:00] GRACE: No, I`ll just say I`m in shock, Nancy Hirsch. Veteran lawyer joining me out of San Francisco and Angie Collins, who is suing the
sperm bank. Angie, how did you come to discover the sperm bank donor is not majoring in neuroscience? He is not a world-renowned drummer, in fact, he`s
an ex-con.
ANGIE COLLINS, SUING SPERM BANK: Well, we found out through one of the mothers in the United States that have discovered his e-mail -- had been
leaked by the company Xytex through an online donor registry that they had just piloted. In fact, it had leaked all of our e-mails to one another and
they also used our first names on the registry list of people that were all in touch with one another using 9623 including 9623 himself. So, take his
first name, his e-mail that was leaked contained the last name.
GRACE: Oh my stars.
COLLINS: She put the two together, did a Google search and the first thing that came up was his statement himself stating that he had schizophrenia.
GRACE: Oh, my stars. Angie Collins, what was your reaction when you discovered the sperm bank donor that you had used is an ex-con
schizophrenic.
COLLINS: Well, it was sickening. It was like a big lead weight dropped to the bottom of my stomach and we were hoping that, you know, obviously there
could be more than one person with the same name. So a variety of us started to hit the internet and look for an opportunity that we could be
wrong. And unfortunately, it just kept getting worse and worse and worse. It was our worst nightmare comes true. It`s really difficult to understand
how it was even possible.
GRACE: Exactly. How did it happen? Don`t they even run a rap sheet? It costs $25 and the public can do it. It`s just amazing to me and also if
you`re using a sperm donor, you`re going to a lot of effort to try to have the baby. And if you`re like me, Angie, my children were extremely
premature. At first we thought Lucy, my daughter, was going to be blind, okay. We got through that hurdle.
She weighed two pounds. We got through the next hurdle, I mean, I watched them like a hawk. What`s going to happen next? And now that you have
discovered the sperm donor is an ex-con with schizophrenia. Dr. Charles Sophy, psychiatrist, joining me out of L.A., what is schizophrenia?
CHARLES SOPHY, PSYCHIATRIST: Schizophrenia is a major mental health disorder and it is hereditary and you`ve got to watch children. And if you
at least know genetically there`s this predisposition, you really have to be with those children at all times and put them into a place where you`re
watching them and you`re watching their sleep and their interactions and have things checked out. Pre, ahead, getting ahead of things with treatment
is a whole lot better than trying to catch up. So, get ahead of the game.
[20:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A donor who sold himself as highly educated and completely healthy, but according to the lawsuit, donor 9623 is actually a
college dropout with mental health issues who has served time behind bars.
GRACE: And fathers 36 sperm bank children. With us, the lawyer out of San Francisco who filed this massive lawsuit and in that lawsuit she alleges he
has schizophrenia. With me also, Angie Collins, suing the sperm bank. Angie, did you have a girl or a boy?
COLLINS: I have a boy.
GRACE: And tell me your fears for your child.
COLLINS: Well, I fear that his life won`t be unlike the donor`s. That would be worst case scenario. We have until he`s, you know, apparently he can
still develop it into the late 30s. So, it`s a long process of needing to keep a very vigilant eye as your previous doctor alluded to.
GRACE: Now, of course the case was dismissed. It`s now being re-filed again. You got a lot of legal hurdles to jump over, but I`m telling you,
this is massive. Stacey Newman, question to you. What about -- what was his conviction for, burglary?
STACEY NEWMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCE: Yeah, he broken into a man`s home in the morning and tried to steal musical equipment. We heard from Angie he
was a drummer. So, he was trying to steal this equipment from this man, got caught.
GRACE: Stacey -- Stacey -- Stacey, he`s not a world renowned drummer, okay. That`s just what he told the sperm bank. Sperm bank according to this...
(TECHNICAL DIFFICULTIES)
GRACE: Why? Why would this guy do this? I mean, back it up. What are, at their worst, the symptoms of schizophrenia? Let me understand how bad this
could potentially be.
SOPHY: Okay, at its worst, this disorder has someone who is psychotic. They`ve lost touch with reality. They are really able to do anything to
maintain their activities and functions of daily life like a job, eating, bathing. This guy looks like he kind of had it together so, maybe it wasn`t
as severe.
GRACE: Let`s remember American hero Army Sergeant Shaker Guy, just 23, Pomona, California, Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Loved video games, dancing,
toys, clothes and candy. He would buy for Iraqi children. Mother Donna, sister Tracy, Shaker Guy, American hero.
Tonight, 8-year-old hero Zion, first child in the world for a double hand transplant. Philadelphia`s Children`s (ph) Hospital -- Hands, legs
amputated at just two, kidney transplant from his mom. Zion`s second chance at life, our hero. Forensic Files is next. Thanks to our guests but
especially to you for being with us. Nancy Grace signing off. I`ll see you tomorrow night at 8:00 sharp eastern. Until then, good night, friend.
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