Return to Transcripts main page
Nancy Grace
Plea Deal in Sievers Murder; Jodi Arias Toys with Men Behind Bars; Major Blow to Legalized Marijuana. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired May 17, 2016 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Mystery surrounding the murder of gorgeous young Dr. Teresa Sievers, bludgeoned dead in the luxury kitchen
of her upscale Florida home, husband and little girls out of town at the time she`s murdered.
Bombshell tonight. Damning new videotapes emerge. Is a sweetheart plea deal in the works? As we crack the secret texting code between husband
Mark Sievers and his two buddies turned co-defendants, is Mark Sievers set to escape the Florida death penalty?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What was Mark like?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hot-headed, like he thought he could do anything and get away with it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Department of Children and Families accused Sievers of coaching his girls on what to say to DCF and the judge about
where they want to live.
MARK SIEVERS, CHARGED IN WIFE`S MURDER: I have stated to the girls that trust is something that`s very, very precious, and it`s hard to know who to
trust with what`s going on.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Jodi Arias bombshell. A prison wedding? After she slaughters boyfriend Travis Alexander following a sex marathon all day, a jailhouse
wedding, the dress, the cake, the ring? Does Arias say she`s having a baby behind bars?
Well, tonight reports wedding plans torpedoed when Arias decides getting married will put the skids on male suitors that keep Jodi Arias rolling in
dough. I`m talking about 60 to 70 letters a day stuffed with money.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Has Jodi Arias, the woman convicted of murdering her boyfriend in cold blood, found a new love from behind bars, new people to
manipulate and fund her life in prison?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: A gorgeous mom of three shot dead in front of her children by her formerly loving husband, now hallucinating, high as a kite, after eating
marijuana candy. Mommy calls 911 begging, begging for help for nearly 15 minutes before dispatch sends the cops. And it`s not the first time.
Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. Damning new videotapes emerge. Is a sweetheart plea deal in the works? As we crack the secret texting code between husband
Mark Sievers, the husband of a gorgeous young doctor, Dr. Teresa Sievers, the mother of two little girls, and his two buddies turned co-defendants,
is Mark Sievers set to escape the Florida death penalty?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was, like, in shock. I was, like, How could he do this, you know? She was an innocent woman. How could you just go and do
something like this? She was so innocent, you know?
And I was terrified. I was in fear for my life and my kids, you know? If I was to say anything to anybody, what would happen to us? It`s sad
because I loved him so much, and it hurts that he would do something like this. But you shouldn`t -- he shouldn`t have done that. I don`t see how
you can kill an innocent woman.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: He shouldn`t have done that? Well, you can say that again!
Now, believe it or not, even though the husband, Mark Sievers`s, charges have been upgraded in the last hours, making him death penalty-qualified,
we`re waiting for that announcement by the prosecutors. Are they going to seek the death penalty or not. He still wants his bond reduced.
Am I understanding that correctly, Rita Cosby, WABC host? Rita, his charges have been upgraded, but he wants out of jail?
RITA COSBY, WABC HOST: Yes, unbelievable. And in fact, asking for a big reduction. Right now, it`s at over $4 million and he wants to get it to
$250,000. The judge said no way, for now.
GRACE: Joining me right now exclusively speaking, a renowned attorney in that jurisdiction. The attorney for Mark Sievers is joining us, Antonio
Faga. Mr. Faga, thank you for being with us.
ANTONIO FAGA, ATTORNEY FOR MARK SIEVERS: Thank you, Ms. Grace. Nice to be with you.
GRACE: Mr. Faga, now, I`m going to ask you to reserve judgment on whether it`s nice to be here. Mr. Faga, why does your client believe he should get
a bond?
[20:05:04]FAGA: Well, the bond application was made before the state upgraded the charge to murder in the first degree. So obviously, he`s
innocent until proven guilty, and the application was made at the appropriate time, when he was charged with murder in the second degree.
GRACE: Well, OK. That, frankly, Mr. Faga -- and you`ve got quite the reputation and a win record to support it -- sounds like a lot of legal
mumbo-jumbo. My question was, why should your client, Teresa Sievers`s husband, get out of jail on bond?
FAGA: Well, he`s innocent until proven guilty.
GRACE: Well, that`s true of everybody that`s behind bars. That was true of Charles Manson.
FAGA: Well, that`s true.
GRACE: Yes, and that`s true of Ted Bundy. They`re all innocent until proven guilty. But why should your guy get out and walk around when he`s
got this murder charge hanging over his head?
FAGA: Well, I can only say that he is still innocent. I mean...
GRACE: OK.
FAGA: ... the fact that he has a murder charge hanging over his head is just the fact of life that he has to deal with.
GRACE: Also tonight, we are learning Curtis Wayne Wright, Jr., the longtime friend, the high school friend of Mark Sievers, pleads guilty.
Now, you know there`s got to be some type of incentive for him to do that.
So question to you, Antonio Faga. You`re the lawyer for Mark Sievers. May I ask you, do you anticipate Curtis Wayne Wright, Jr., who has been your
client`s best friend from the get-go, to testify against Mark Sievers?
FAGA: Absolutely. That`s the way the prosecution seems to be setting this up.
GRACE: Whoa! Hold on. Could you run those crime scene photos for just a moment? The prosecution, you say, is setting all this up. Hey, they
didn`t dump Teresa Sievers`s blood on her kitchen floor. They did not set this murder up!
So you`re saying the state is setting up what, Mr. Faga?
FAGA: Just what you indicated, Ms. Grace, that they are setting up Curtis Wayne Wright`s testimony against Mr. Sievers.
GRACE: And if Curtis Wayne Wright is not telling the truth, then why would he testify against your client?
FAGA: Well, I think he has a fairly attractive deal that has been made with him, and I think that part of that deal is his testimony against Mr.
Sievers.
GRACE: What do you think the deal is?
FAGA: I think it`s 25 years in prison.
GRACE: Twenty-five years behind bars. And would he do the whole 25 years or get out early?
FAGA: No, I think he gets out early. I think he does 85 percent of his max.
GRACE: Put up Faga, please. OK, Mr. Faga, I`ve got to agree with you on something. That`s a sweet deal. You get 25 years behind bars, when this
woman, a mother of two little girls, comes home from out of town. She`s making all the money, she`s bringing home the bacon.
I want to see Faga, please. Repeat, I want to see the lawyer. And then she gets bludgeoned dead with a hammer, and somebody`s going to walk free
in about, let me just guess, 12 years, 12-ish years? That`s not right!
So I see what you`re arguing. He`s only testifying for a sweetheart deal. But that totally ignores the fact that he`s the go-between between your
man, Mark Sievers, and The Hammer. The Hammer is the nickname of the actual killer who bludgeons Teresa dead. Your guy -- your guy -- Mark
Sievers, only knows The Hammer through Curtis Wayne Wright. He`s the go- between.
Why would he make all this up about your client?
FAGA: Well, you know, we`re not sure of that yet. We`ve just begun to work our way through the discovery and through the statement of Mr. Wright
and trying to get some kind of handle on exactly what the state has offered him and whether this testimony was valid or not.
GRACE: So are you suggesting, Mr. Faga, that Curtis Wayne Wright, Jr. -- I mean, they`re so close, they actually look like each other.
Can I see that side by side, please? I mean, they look like brothers. Many people think that they are brothers. They spent every waking moment
together all the way through high school. And can I see -- everybody, just for your FYI, Sievers on the left, Wayne Wright on the right, and he`s the
one that`s pleading guilty to testify against his BFF, best friend forever.
You know, Mr. Faga, question to you. It is true that your client received phone calls on burner phones, disposable phones, from his then best friend,
who has now pled guilty?
[20:10:00]FAGA: We have not had that confirmed yet with our discovery. That`s been a rumor that we`ve heard, but we have not confirmed that.
GRACE: If that, as you say, rumor -- as I call it, evidence -- is true, why would your client have a disposable phone? If I found out my husband
had a disposable phone, you know what I would do with him? I`d send him right home to his mother and say, He`s all yours, Mom. Have him.
A disposable phone? For what?
FAGA: I don`t know.
GRACE: Good question, right?
FAGA: Yes. No question.
GRACE: I have another question for you. And of course, I`m sure you`ve already anticipated all of this in your preparation for trial. Your
client, Mark Sievers, went to go and visit -- went all the way to Missouri to visit his best friend, Curtis Wayne Wright, in the weeks leading up to
Dr. Sievers`s murder. Why?
FAGA: Well, I think they had a longstanding relationship, like you`ve indicated, Ms. Grace. I think they were friends, and I don`t think that
was a surprise that Mark would go to St. Louis and visit with his friends.
GRACE: Mr. Faga, did your client, Mark Sievers, work? Did he bring home a paycheck?
FAGA: Well, he worked at the office with his wife, Teresa.
GRACE: He worked at her doctor`s office for her. Doing what, may I ask?
FAGA: Well, he was the office manager, and he ran the books and he ran the Medicare and the billing cycles that were relevant to the office.
GRACE: Mr. Faga -- everyone, joining me is Antonio Faga, a high-profile lawyer in the Florida jurisdiction who is representing Dr. Teresa Sievers`s
husband, Mark Sievers, whose charges just upgraded. He`s now death penalty-qualified. And we are waiting to find out about that decision by
the prosecutor in that jurisdiction.
Mr. Faga, I notice -- I couldn`t help but notice both Curtis Wayne Wright and The Hammer, Jimmy Rodgers, who physically murdered Teresa Sievers,
according to police -- both seem to know the intimate details of Dr. Sievers`s life insurance, that there would be a payday of $4.3 million.
Now, they would not have known that if your client hadn`t told them.
FAGA: Well, I think that Teresa may have also told them. You know, they had a relationship with her also.
GRACE: OK, now, hold on. Mr. Faga -- Mr. Faga, please do not say that in front of a jury full of women because nobody is going to believe that Dr.
Teresa Sievers was talking about her life insurance policy with her husband`s high school friend. I mean, how many times over dinner, Mr.
Faga, do you go, Hey, Pete, I`ve got $4.3 million life insurance? Wow. Never. She`s not going to be telling them that!
FAGA: Well, we don`t know that. I mean, we were not in her company. We don`t really know where he found that information out. You know, he worked
at the Sievers`s -- at the Sievers`s office.
GRACE: First of all, damning new video emerging in the case against Mark Sievers and his buddy, Curtis Wayne Wright, Jr., who takes a sweetheart
deal. Then there`s The Hammer, Jimmy Ray Rodgers, who actually physically bludgeons Dr. Sievers dead.
Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was kind of pieced together over time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I know, but just take your time (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He just randomly told me stuff.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It wasn`t like a big, long conversation. It was just like -- like, after you guys came asked him if he went to Florida, and he
told me, yes. And then I asked him what he went down there for. And he said to make money. And then asked him how did he make money. And it was
murdering Mark`s wife.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Teresa Sievers, the doctor?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:18:22]UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was terrified. I was in fear for my life and my kids.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She says Jimmy Rodgers confessed to her that he killed Dr. Teresa Sievers.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Sievers, since Teresa`s murder, you have spoken negatively to the girls about Teresa`s family, haven`t you.
M. SIEVERS: Negatively? I don`t think so, ma`am. I think "accurately" would be a better choice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: What is that all about? Mark Sievers is appearing in court, fighting custody. Now, according to the state, he murders his wife, OK, so
she can`t have custody. And he doesn`t want his wife`s mother to have custody of their two little girls. He wants his mother to have custody and
is in court -- wait, listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Sievers, since Teresa`s murder, you have spoken negatively to the girls about Teresa`s family, haven`t you.
M. SIEVERS: Negatively? I don`t think so, ma`am. I think "accurately" would be a better choice.
M. SIEVERS: We have always been an incredibly close, tight-knit family. My 9-year-old and 11-year-old daughter should have a right and should have
a voice and it should be heard.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They were told not to talk about certain things with their maternal grandmother.
M. SIEVERS: Yes, I have told them that. I have stated to the girls that trust is something that`s very, very precious, and it`s hard to know who to
trust with what`s going on.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Trust? Whoa!
OK, joining us is Antonio Faga, the lawyer for Mark Sievers. Bob Alexander with us, news director there at Fox News, and Rita Cosby, WABC.
Bob Alexander, did I just hear Mark Sievers talking about a close, tight- knit family, that he wants his little girls` voices to be heard? I bet if they could be heard, they`re saying, Why did you kill my mommy?
[20:20:13]BOB ALEXANDER, 92.5 FOX NEWS (via telephone): Yes, Nancy, it`s pretty incredible for Mark Sievers to go into court and testify that
Maryann Gross (ph), Teresa Sievers`s mother, could not provide the proper environment for his girls to be brought up. He wanted Bonnie (ph) Sievers,
his mother, to have custody of the girls.
But two things worked against that argument. Number one, Bonnie Sievers recently made the comments that she was not physically, emotionally or
financially prepared to take care of those girls for a long period of time.
And also, the prosecutors played jailhouse phone calls between Mark Sievers and his two daughters, showing that Mark Sievers was trying to manipulate
the daughters to turn them against the late wife`s mother.
But it didn`t work. The court ultimately decided that Maryann Gross, Teresa Sievers`s mother, would have at least temporary custody of the girls
until any kind of a trial was taken care of and finished.
GRACE: Bob Alexander with Fox, Rita Cosby, WABC. Antonio Faga, the lawyer, a very well known lawyer in the Florida jurisdiction, the lawyer
for Mark Sievers, is joining us.
Mr. Faga, did you know your client, Mark Sievers, Dr. Sievers`s husband, was going to talk in court at the custody hearing?
FAGA: Well, the custody hearing has been handled by my partner, Mike Mummard (ph). But I was aware of the activities that occurred going into
that hearing, yes.
GRACE: OK. Because I know a lawyer of your esteem would -- and I mean this in a good way -- coach your client, prepare them for what`s going to
happen and what they could say that would work against them and what they could say that would help them.
But Mark Sievers, your client, who is now charged with the murder of his wife, the bludgeoning death -- I mean, I`m sure you`ve seen the crime scene
photos -- is talking about a close, tight-knit family? According to the state, he murdered his wife and took the children`s mommy away.
FAGA: Well, that`s the state`s theory, Ms. Grace. I don`t think he`s -- that`s been proven at all yet.
GRACE: You know what? That`s a good point.
Rita Cosby, WABC host, trust? Trust is very precious? I trust my husband is not currently arranging my murder when I walk into the kitchen tonight.
I`m praying that`s not going to happen. But I mean, words like that -- I mean, it`s like ammunition. You fire it out, it`s going to ricochet right
back at you. Talking about trust? I mean...
COSBY: And also, other things, too, Nancy...
GRACE: ... Rita, look at your monitor. Look at your monitor. Liz, show me the murder scene, please. What other things? What other things, Rita?
COSBY: Well, the other comments, too, that he makes. And of course, nothing compares to what you`re showing on video here, but he makes
comments saying that the lack of getting phone calls is baloney. It`s Mickey Mouse crap. He uses this kind of language, very inflammatory,
certainly doesn`t paint a good picture of him.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:27:14]GRACE: The charges in the Teresa Sievers murder trial have been upgraded. Her husband, Mark Sievers, and The Hammer, Jimmy Rodgers, who
allegedly actually physically bludgeoned Sievers dead, now upgraded. They are death penalty-qualified. This as damning new video emerges.
Is a sweetheart plea in the works for Sievers`s best friend, longtime best friend -- he looks like his brother -- could walk free in as little as 10
to 12 years in exchange for testimony against Mark Sievers.
Antonio Faga with us, the lawyer for Mark Sievers. Mr. Faga, what is your defense of your client, Mark Sievers, who never had any record before this?
FAGA: Well, our defense is that he`s an innocent man as he stands before you today. And in addition to that, you know, he was in Connecticut when
this occurred, and to the best of our knowledge, the only testimony that seems to be given that involved him with Curtis Wayne Wright has come from
Curtis Wayne Wright. He clearly had a reason to prepare and to provide this kind of information in order to save himself.
GRACE: But what I don`t understand with your theory, Mr. Faga, is, say Curtis Wayne Wright was in on the murder of Dr. Teresa Sievers. For what?
I mean, he gets The Hammer, Jimmy Rodgers, to murder Sievers. What good is it going to do Curtis Wayne Wright? He`s not going to get life insurance
to the tune of $4.3 million. He`s not having an affair with Dr. Sievers, not about some sex-related issue. Nothing.
So what`s in it for Curtis Wayne Wright to roll over?
FAGA: I don`t think we know that yet, Ms. Grace. I mean, I`m not sure we know why Curtis Wayne Wright did this. I don`t think that`s been developed
at any level. and certainly, we haven`t seen it yet.
GRACE: But we do know the two of them are shopping in a local -- I believe it`s a Walmart. And they travel all the way from Missouri to Florida.
They go -- right before her murder, they`re caught on video in a Walmart buying gear. They even buy a souvenir T-shirt. Of what, the murder?
Here`s another question. Roll the sound, please, Liz.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They talked about going swimming. I don`t know how this came up, maybe taking the girls swimming, something like that. And
Mark kind of mentioned, Oh, we can all go back to the house and go swimming tonight. And I`m going, Really?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, is it really appropriate at this point?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The house? And (INAUDIBLE) he says to Teresa`s mom, We can go back to the house. And she goes, No! No! Like that. I`m,
like, somebody needs to kick you!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:30:11] GRACE: Antonio Faga, lawyer for Mark Sievers, your client wanted to have a pool party at his house the night of her memorial service?
FAGA: That`s the first I`ve heard of that. That`s the first I`ve heard of that testimony at all.
GRACE: Well, you heard it now. You heard it now. You got to explain that away in front of a jury.
FAGA: Well, I think that -- I can`t explain that today, Ms. Grace. I got to tell you ...
GRACE: OK.
FAGA: ... that`s the first I`ve heard of that.
GRACE: OK. To Ben Levitan, telecommunications expert. Ben, I started this all off talking about burner phones because I said if I have caught my
husband with a burner phone, I would send him straight home to his mother, COD. OK? So, explain to me why this is so damning if this is, in fact,
true.
BEN LEVITAN, TELECOMMUNICATIONS EXPERT: Well, Nancy, you assume that someone like Mark Sievers already has a cell phone.
A burner phone is a phone that you can get with very little scrutiny, Nancy. You can go in a 7-Eleven, buy a phone, on any of the major carriers,
pay cash for it. It will already have minutes on it and you can turn it on by yourself.
The only reason it seems that these -- you know, Mark and Mr. Wright would have gotten phones is they wanted to secretly communicate. They were under
the misconception that burner phones cannot be traced. And the phones weren`t recovered, Nancy. We may not know anything about their movements
and (ph) locations with these phones.
GRACE: And to Matt Zarrell, we crack the code with a little help from the police. What is the secret code the three of them were allegedly using when
they wanted to switch to burner phones?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: It was one word, the word "other." he would text, "hello brother from an other mother." And that would mean use
the burner phones.
[20:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Jodi Arias bombshell. A prison wedding after she slaughters boyfriend, Travis Alexander, following a sex marathon together. Now, a
jailhouse wedding? The dress, the ring, the cake. Does Arias actually say she`s going to conceive, have a baby behind bars?
Well, tonight, reports the wedding plans torpedoed when Arias decides getting married will put the skids on "male suitors," all those lovelorn
men that keep Jodi Arias rolling in dough. I`m talking about 60 to 70 letters a day stuffed with money.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jodi Arias manipulated her boyfriend, Travis Alexander, and violently murdered him. Now she`s reportedly finding new men to
manipulate from behind bars.
JODI ARIAS, CONVICTED OF MURDERING HER BOYFRIEND: ... with my actions and it`s my responsibility.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Arias is making some big purchases possibly financed by men who are contacting her from outside the prison walls.
ARIAS, SINGING `O HOLY NIGHT`: ... Fall on your knees Oh hear the angel voices ...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: You know, many people say how could Jodi Arias toy with men behind bars? Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALEXANDER TRAVIS, JODI ARIAS` BOYFRIEND: Actually (inaudible) probably use a 12-year-old girl (inaudible).
TRAVIS: That`s so hot.
ARIAS: I know. Sounds like what?
TRAVIS: A 12-year-old girl (inaudible) little girl.
ARIAS: You`re mad. You make me feel so dirty.
TRAVIS: You are dirty. I just want some more, we can (inaudible).
ARIAS: OK.
TRAVIS: (Inaudible) I just want to (BLEEP) with you. I like that term. It`s a marathon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK. With all of her phone sex in mind that was played in front of a jury that went on to convict her, Alexis Tereszcuk, senior reporter
radaronline.com, Jodi Arias wedding plans off as she toys with men behind bars. Tell me something, is it true that she is this close to the $100,000-
mark for her defense fund that she has raised from the lovelorn men that send her letters stuffed with cash?
ALEXIS TERESZCUK, RADARONLINE.COM SENIOR REPORTER: Yes. It is 100 percent true. She is almost at her goal of $100,000.
She is claiming that she is going to use this money to pay for her appeals fund which the lawyers were appointed by the state, not really sure what
she`s going to use this money for.
But she has men all over the world, not just in Arizona or Utah or California where she`s from, all over the world, donate money to her.
They`ve sent her money so she can buy things on her commissary list, which we`ve shown you is chock-full of items.
She basically buys at the store every week. She`s rolling in the dough behind the bars which everybody had hoped would not happen because she is a
convicted murderer.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Hold on just a moment. To Barrett Marson, former Director of Communications for Arizona Department of Corrections, CEO of Marson Media
Firm.
Barrett, thank you for being with us. It is true that at her particular C.I., correctional institute, that she can actually get letters stuffed
with cash?
[20:40:00] BARRETT MARSON, FORMER DIRECTOR OF COMMUNICATIONS FOR ARIZONA DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS: Thanks for having me on, Nancy. Actually, that
is not true. To put money onto someone`s account, you have to send it directly to the prison.
You know, money in prison, cash in prison is no good. She cannot get the cash. They must -- someone who wants to send money to her certainly can,
but they must send it to the prison to put it directly on her ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: OK, then let me rephrase this. Barrett Marson, is it true that Jodi Arias can get envelopes full of cash if they are sent to the jail and then
sent -- funneled to her commissary account?
MARSON: Yes, they can -- she can get moneyed added to her commissary account by anybody she wants. And, you know, things aren`t that expensive,
35, 40 cents for a bag of chips. And she can spend as much as she wants. She ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: So tonight, a ...
MARSON: ... a couple hundred bucks.
GRACE: Apparently, the jailhouse wedding is off because Jodi Arias does not want all of her male suitors to think she`s, what, off the market? I mean,
forget about the life sentence.
I want to talk about toying with men. You heard the phone sex between her and Travis Alexander and it ended in him being dead. stabbed multiple
times, shot, slumped over dead in his shower.
To Dr. William Morrone, Forensic Pathologist, renowned Medical Examiner. Dr. Morrone, they spent the whole afternoon having sex. Talk about messing
with your mind. Then she attacks him and stabs him dead in some type of a psycho frenzy. Could you describe, Dr. Morrone, what happened to Travis
Alexander?
DR. WILLIAM MORRONE FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Well, the initial attacks had to come when he was not aware because he could not be overpowered. This is a
strapping, young, healthy man who was either taken in some phase of relapse after sex or sleep or from behind.
But the knife is much bigger than this, this is all I could get today, went in the front, severing major arteries, and in the back at least 40 times
all around including the neck and part of the face.
Then after he suffered those three dozen stab wounds, he had a knife wound that went from ear to ear. And then finally, he was shot in the head.
So there are three ways to kill. She used each one sequentially and it`s likely that the first assault was all the stab wounds that took him down
because she could not overpower him. And when she cut him in the throat, she cut through windpipe and muscle. So he had to be dead weight, and it
was really hard. And he didn`t know the gunshot was coming.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARIAS, SINGING `O HOLY NIGHT`: ... A thrill of hope the weary world rejoices
For yonder breaks a new and glorious morn!
Fall on your knees Oh hear ...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: A gorgeous mom of three shot dead in front of her children by her formerly loving husband. Now hallucinating, high as a kite, after he eats
marijuana candy.
Mommy calls 911 begging, begging for help for nearly 15 minutes before dispatch sends the cops. And it`s not the first time.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... domestic violence in progress. RP versus her husband ...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It took police 13 minutes to get here. And by the time they did, they were too late.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... who`s been smoking marijuana.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Inside, sources say Richard Kirk ate edible marijuana and was hallucinating. He asked his wife to shoot him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Male had a gun ...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When she refused, police say her husband pointed the gun at her and pulled the trigger.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need an officer ...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: This woman murdered by her husband in front of her children after he ingests edible pot? Let`s take a listen to the dispatch call.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Report of a domestic violence in progress. RP versus her husband, who`s been smoking marijuana.
Advised they do keep a handgun in the house, but it`s not in anybody`s possession.
Report of a domestic violence in progress.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need an ambulance code 10 for party down, we`re going to need homicide.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wife on an open line claiming that a male had a gun. All we have is the screaming in the background.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is the victim from St. Paul being transported?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And who`s going to be the IC on St. Paul?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Joining me right now, Norm Kent, the former president of Normal, to legalize marijuana. Brad Lamm, Addiction Specialist and Founder of Breathe
Life Healing Centers. But first to Dr. William Morrone.
Dr. Morrone, what is edible pot? What are we talking about?
MORRONE: They extract or they use parts of the plants and put it in candy, muffins, brownies, anything that`s edible. Instead of smoking it, you eat a
product that`s made from parts of the plant.
[20:50:00] GRACE: Norm Kent and Brad Lamm joining me. Norm Kent, you want this legalized, and this formerly loving husband eats edible pot in candy
form, whips out a gun, threatens to kill himself and ends up murdering his wife as the two children are right there? And you want to legalize that?
NORM KENT, FORMER PRESIDENT OF NORMAL: Nancy, what do you want to do, put warning signs in the cookie aisles in supermarkets? Do you want to lock up
pig farmers because people eat too much bacon? Of course ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: What are you talking about?
KENT: ... this is a nonsensical lawsuit.
GRACE: Wait, what, what, what ...
KENT: I`m saying the scene is ridiculous (ph).
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... what is this have to do with pig farmers? Help me. What are you talking ...
(CROSSTALK)
KENT: You don`t, Nancy ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: First of all -- wait, let`s just get it out there, Norm Kent.
(CROSSTALK)
KENT: Because you -- this is a lawsuit ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Are you high right now? Are you high?
(CROSSTALK)
KENT: Nancy, me being high ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Did you eat edible pot ...
(CROSSTALK)
KENT: I don`t have to be high, Nancy.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... on the way to the studio?
(CROSSTALK)
KENT: Because me being high, I still make more sense than you do sober. Let`s deal with that reality.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Really? Really? OK, because ...
(CROSSTALK)
KENT: Yeah, my dear, really.
(CROSSTALK)
BRAD LAMM, ADDICTION SPECIALIST AND FOUNDER OF BREATHE LIFE HEALING CENTERS: So, Nancy, this is what happened in Colorado. There was a race to
legalize, there were no legal limits on the amount of THC and edible, so the edibles that are fro sale in Colorado are very, very high.
They`re toxic, if animals eat them, they can die. And two out of 10 people that use THC or pot will have a negative reaction to it.
So when Norm says pot is no big deal, it is a big deal to those that it`s a big deal for. So two out of 10 will get ...
(CROSSTALK)
KENT: They`ll have a worse reaction listening to you.
(CROSSTALK)
LAMM: ... will get paranoid and delusional, Norm. So when you downplay it ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: That`s when you pot ...
(CROSSTALK)
LAMM: ... it does a disservice to every family out there who has a loved one that`s struggling with pot.
GRACE: So ...
(CROSSTALK)
KENT: NO, not at all, Brad.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... let me understood the lawsuit.
KENT: You do a disservice by misrepresenting good qualities of marijuana and THC, their medicinal qualities, their healthful qualities ...
(CROSSTALK)
LAMM: You`re the one. I think it`s -- I think it`s amazing for many people. For some, it`s just like a drink of wine after work.
For my brother, Greg, who has a stage 4 cancer, it`s the thing that`s helping him eat and stay alive. So, look, I`m not against it ...
(CROSSTALK)
KENT: Thank you, I agree.
(CROSSTALK)
LAMM: I`m certainly not against medical marijuana, but you`re so shrill on the pro side, it`s ridiculous.
GRACE: OK, Brad, I don`t think ...
LAMM: Yes?
GRACE: ... anyone has any disagreement with medical marijuana to ease pain and nausea and suffering of people, for instance, that have stage 4 cancer
or whatever ...
(CROSSTALK)
LAMM: Yeah, it`s awesome.
GRACE: ... is causing them pain.
LAMM: Yeah. Yeah.
GRACE: So -- that`s not what we`re talking about. What we are talking about is legalizing recreational use of marijuana in the degree -- to the degree
that it was in this case.
Unleash the lawyers. Randy Kessler, Alex Sanchez. Alex, now there is a lawsuit suing the store that sold the edible pot. What about it?
ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think they might have some merit. I think the government is responsible for highly unregulated industry. I think the
store that sold the marijuana is responsible for not properly labeling their products and I think the state police are responsible for not
responding to this emergency in time.
GRACE: What about it Kessler?
RANDY KESSLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Maybe the government, but there were no warnings regulated. Maybe we need regulation. We need some regulation ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Maybe, maybe, maybe. I`m talking about a real case right now, and I want answers. Two children see their mother gunned down by their father,
high on pot. There was too much THC in there, but Norm Kent, you`re still advocating it be legalized. What is wrong with you?
KENT: I`m saying that -- I`m saying that this person should be charged with first-degree murder. He`s asserting a defense of insanity, so clearly, it`s
a lot more than marijuana that`s the issue here and yes, we believe in the responsible regulated use of taxable marijuana in our communities.
Twenty-four states have been doing it now. We have planes flying on time, trains getting to places on time, and people doing it well.
[20:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Right now, a major blow to legalize marijuana, a man murders his wife with the children watching after he ingests pot candy.
With me, Brad Lamm, Breathe Life Healing Centers and Norm Kent, former president of Normal.
Norm Kent, with the elevated levels of THC in pot candy, how can you possibly think it`s OK? I mean, these children are going to live forever
with the image of their mother murdered their father high on candy.
KENT: No, he was high on stupidity and insanity and he may have taken and consumed too much marijuana. We do have to have packaging that labels and
affords people of the knowledge of the risks that you should not ...
(CROSSTALK)
LAMM: Well, I know it didn`t happen in Colorado, Norm. That didn`t happen in Colorado and ...
(CROSSTALK)
KENT: No, actually -- actually, Colorado has those laws in place, Brad, and you should know that.
LAMM: No, they don`t, Norm. You are not -- either you`re uninformed or you`re lying. There is no legislation put in place that would control ...
(CROSSTALK)
KENT: On the contrary -- no, lying ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: OK, guys, hold on a minute.
We remember American hero, Army Sergeant Leon Johnson, 28, Jacksonville. Parents, Harry and Bobby; five sisters; widow, Shalonda; four children.
Leon Johnson, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us. Nancy Grace, signing off. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8 o`clock sharp, Eastern. And
until then, good night, friend.
[21:00:00]
END
