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Nancy Grace
Young Blueblood Kidnaps, Abuses Tot Girl; The Hunt for Veronica Erin Staley; Burning Alive in a Horrific Lighter Fluid Attack. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired May 18, 2016 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. She was born into money and breeding, lived in the most exclusive neighborhood in affluent Topsfield
just east of Boston. After living abroad with her family in London, then attending the upscale Christian frat (ph) Academy, the master`s (ph) school
in Connecticut, even a counselor at exclusive Gordon College.
But tonight, she`s facing charges she abducts a tot girl in the middle of the night, the tot later found naked, covered in cigarette burns, with the
tot girl`s head shaved! The baby`s head was shaved, the child alone, shivering by the side of a busy road. But tonight, her lawyers say she`s
got mental problems. Well, not according to her Facebook!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re searching for a 2-year-old that went missing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Abducted right from her Hamilton home during the night.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Reports of a child on the side of the road, bruised.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Found alive, naked, her head shaved with burn and bruise marks.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The toddler`s former baby-sitter charged not only with kidnapping, but also assault and battery with a dangerous weapon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: The deadly shooting of a 31-year-old man in his own gym parking lot stumps police. But tonight, caught on video, a tall blond female spotted
sitting in her car over an hour before she pulls out a gun and shoots the guy dead. Apparently out of ammunition, the woman, dressed in gym clothes,
then pistol whips the guy, sprints back to her black Hyundai and speeds away. Tonight, the hunt for the blond gym killer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This video from a witness`s cell phone shows the woman with the gun sprinting back to her car. Then she speeds away in a black
Genesis (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Then I hear him yelling and screaming, Oh my God, Oh, my God, running way. (INAUDIBLE) get out of her car, hear two more shots.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She immediately pulls out a gun and starts firing on him, at least three shots.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Police and EMTs race to the scene to find a teen girl burning alive in a horrific lighter fluid attack. Just before her death, does the girl
whisper her killer`s name to police? And tonight, will legal shenanigans let a killer walk free?
Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. She was born into money and breeding, the most exclusive neighborhoods in Topsfield east of Boston, lives abroad with her
family in London, an upscale Christian prep school, the Master`s (ph) School, even a counselor at an exclusive college.
But tonight, she`s facing charges she kidnapped a baby tot girl in the middle of the night, around 4:00 AM. The tot, that little girl, is later
found completely naked, covered -- her little -- you know how a child`s skin is so sensitive? You always have to watch out for diaper rash and
rashes? This little girl`s body, her naked body, is covered in cigarette burns. The little girl`s head is completely shaved. The little girl is
found alone, shivering cold by the side of a busy road.
Now tonight, her lawyers say their client has mental problems. Well, not according to her Facebook! I bet her lawyers can`t control what she`s
posting all the time!
Let`s go straight out to Chris Spargo, reporter with Dailymail.com. Let`s start at the beginning because this young lady was supposed to be in court
in the last hours, and it seems to me like she and her legal team can`t decide if she`s going to claim incompetency or not.
But let`s not put the cart before the horse, Spargo. Start at the beginning. What happened?
CHRIS SPARGO, DAILYMAIL.COM (via telephone): So in the middle of the night, the parents of these -- you know, the 2-year-old baby -- they hear
the baby at about 3:00 AM. They go back to sleep. They wake back up a little after 6:00 AM. Baby is nowhere to be found in the house.
They`re frantic. They`re running around. They notice a rear door is open in the back. They immediately call authorities, can`t find the baby
anywhere in the house. A few hours later, they find this baby along, abandoned by the side of the road.
[20:05:00]GRACE: Now, hold on just a moment. Chris Spargo, isn`t it true that this woman -- she looks a lot like the actress Kelly Rutherford --
Abigail Hanna, 21 years old, born with a silver spoon in her mouth. Didn`t she use to baby-sit with this couple?
SPARGO: That is true. She had baby-sat a few times in the past, but they let her go. They didn`t want her watching the child anymore.
GRACE: They did not want her watching the child anymore. They had her as a baby-sitter, an upscale baby-sitter. Think they got the real deal.
She`s traveled abroad. She goes to this Christian prep school. She`s a counselor at a college. Bam! Just a few months later, their baby is
kidnapped!
Now, let me go to you, Tim McCarthy joining me in addition to Chris Spargo with Dailymail. Tim is the editor at the Wicked Local Hamilton. Tim, tell
me the condition in which this baby is found.
TIM MCCARTHY, WICKED LOCAL HAMILTON (via telephone): She was found on the side of the road over in a neighboring town called Rowley. And she was
found naked, dirty, and was covered with cigarette burns at the time (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: I didn`t know the baby was dirty, as well, Tim McCarthy. I can only imagine! Why is a baby totally naked, which is indicative of a
molestation? I don`t know that yet. But why else would you strip a child`s clothes off? The head`s shaved, cigarette burns, road rash -- road
rash?
Hold on. Dr. William Morrone, forensic pathologist, a renowned medical examiner and toxicologist. Dr. Morrone, road rash. What is that?
DR. WILLIAM MORRONE, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: That means that at some point, the baby contacted asphalt or concrete and was either dragged or fell. And
that`s indicative of abrasions, scrapes and bleeding, and then dirt, concrete and asphalt get in the skin. That`s road rash.
GRACE: This baby has just turned 2 years old! And this child is found covered in road rash from direct contact with asphalt, covered in cigarette
burns, her head shaved and she`s naked? And this girl doesn`t bother to show up to court today? Oh, oh, uh-uh! That is not going to work for me!
No!
OK, back to you, Spargo. What do we know then? Now, the parents wake up in the middle of the night. And I`m wondering if they weren`t hearing this
girl come in the door. But they wake up around 4:00 o`clock in the morning, I think it was. They check on the baby. The baby`s fine.
But then when they wake up for good the next morning, 6:00 AM, the baby is gone. What do they do, Chris?
SPARGO: So like I say, they call police, police came over. They asked them, you know, Give us any names, is there anything you might know? And
they can`t find anything at the house, around the yard. And one of the names the father mentions is the girl, Abigail Hanna, who had baby-sat for
us a few times in the past.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Robin Ficker, defense attorney out of Maryland, Mindy Smith out of Atlanta. And also joining me, child welfare
law specialist Ashley Willcott.
First to you, Ficker. What`s your defense?
ROBIN FICKER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It`s unclear that they ever read Abigail her Miranda rights before they questioned her at length...
GRACE: Are you serious?
FICKER: ... that they got a search warrant for her phone...
GRACE: That`s all you got?
FICKER: ... that they had a search warrant when they took the bag when she was going to see her lawyers!
GRACE: They didn`t give her her Miranda rights?
FICKER: She`s had a miscarriage. She has tried to commit suicide before.
GRACE: I don`t know that!
FICKER: She`s the victim in this case.
GRACE: Let me tell you something, Ficker. Just because this blue blood society girl tells me something, that does not mean I`m going to believe
it.
What if you heard this dispatch call at 4:00 AM? Listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re searching for a 2-year-old that went missing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) speak with the family and get a detailed description.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Rowley patrol on the air with a report of a child on the side of the road, bruised, Newbury Road.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) we have a contusion to the head.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK, today, the girl does not come to court, the alleged perp, the 21-year-old Abigail Hanna. You`re seeing where she lives.
But let me go to you, Tim McCarthy. She took police on a wild goose chase. Tim McCarthy joining me from the Wicked Local Hamilton. How did cops even
get onto this girl?
MCCARTHY: Sure. So basically, the family had mentioned off-handedly that Hanna had baby-sat for them once before. They`d attempted to reach out,
and her narrative began to shift with each time they attempted to contact her.
GRACE: Wait a minute! Wait a minute! Hold on, Tim. I don`t know if you can see a monitor, but we`re showing her in court right now. Yes, I
wouldn`t hold my head up, either, if I had stolen a baby girl, shaved her head, covered her in cigarette burns and gave her road rash, left her naked
by the side of the road! That`s right, you better look down at the floor!
OK, back to you. How did they get onto her, Abigail Hanna?
MCCARTHY: Sure. So eventually, they found that her narratives were beginning to contradict one another.
[20:10:00]GRACE: Wait! Wa-wa-wa-wa-wait! Tim -- Tim, call me crazy, but I want to hear the details of her conflicting narratives, as you put it.
What`s the first thing? So the parents just say, Well, this used to be the baby-sitter before we fired her. All right, then when they finally get
Abigail Hanna -- hold on. I`m being joined by Michael Christian. Michael, what`s the first thing that happens when the cops call her?
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: They try to get a hold of her, and she says she`s baby-sitting for another family. But she can`t tell the
cops where she is because she doesn`t think that the baby`s mother would want her to. So she`ll call them right back after she checks with Mom.
GRACE: OK, hold on.
CHRISTIAN: But she never calls back.
GRACE: Let me just absorb that. Robin Ficker and Mindy Smith -- so she tells the cops a big, fat lie at the get-go, that she`s baby-sitting
somewhere else, Mindy, but she doesn`t think the baby`s mother would want her to give that address to the cops. Because why? Why don`t you want the
cops to have your address, Mindy?
MINDY SMITH, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, she didn`t know what the cops` motivation was. I don`t even know if they divulged to her...
GRACE: Well, what, you thought the cops...
SMITH: ... that there was a missing girl.
GRACE: ... were going to do a home invasion? Why not tell the cops where you are? They want to talk to you about a missing child. If somebody
called you, Mindy, about a child that you know that is missing, wouldn`t you want to talk to the police?
SMITH: Well, she doesn`t have to cooperate, Nancy.
GRACE: That`s not what I asked you.
SMITH: She doesn`t have to cooperate with the police...
(CROSSTALK)
SMITH: ... unless there`s a warrant for her arrest.
GRACE: OK, listen, we`ve all seen TV. We know you don`t have to give a statement if you`re a target. But Ficker, I`m not quite sure why you`re
chuckling because I bet if this was your child or your grandchild with the head shaved and the cigarette burns naked on the side of the road, it
wouldn`t be that funny anymore.
But let me just ask -- let me just pose a query, as it were. If the cops called you about a missing child that somebody in your family knows, what,
you would be afraid to tell the police your location?
FICKER: This is the case of the impetuous cops. They should have followed the search warrants for the phone, for her bag and questioned her at length
after reading her her Miranda rights.
GRACE: OK.
FICKER: They`re impetuous. They`re case will fall.
GRACE: I`m in crazyland because A, you didn`t answer my question. You know what? I`m not going to try to beat a dead horse and get a truthful
answer out of you.
So after that, Tim McCarthy, after she lies to the police about where she is, then what happens?
MCCARTHY: Sure. So some of the stories she was attempting to shift around to include attempting to find a missing cat, sneaking off to smoke
marijuana at a nearby...
GRACE: Wait, wait, wait, wait! Is that true, Chris Spargo? She tells police that she`s covered in dirt with twigs in her hair because she tried
to corral a cat, a stray cat? That`s her story?
SPARGO: That is correct. Her story changes multiple times over the course of three interviews. And one of the first things she says to explain the
fact that there is dirt on her hands and on her face is that she was trying to catch a stray cat earlier that morning.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Ficker, Smith and Willcott. So Ficker, that`s quite the coincidence, is it, that the blue blood socialist beauty happens
to be covered in dirt with twigs in her hair and the baby covered in cigarette burns, is covered in dirt. Isn`t that quite a coincidence, Robin
Ficker?
FICKER: It`s a coincidence. But poor Abigail had had a miscarriage. She had tried...
GRACE: Are you still talking about a miscarriage?
FICKER: ... to commit suicide before. We don`t know why she was let go from this family.
GRACE: She is telling you she tried to commit suicide. But isn`t it true, Ashley Willcott, she first went to some, like, mental health center. They
kicked her out, Ashley! They said, She doesn`t need our services. Get her out of here! This girl is no more incompetent than we are, Ashley!
ASHLEY WILLCOTT, CERTIFIED CHILD WELFARE LAW SPECIALIST: That`s right, Nancy. That`s exactly what happened. She was there for five months, and
after that, they said she doesn`t need to be here. We`re sending her back to jail. And the thing that bothers me -- people assume that because she
had a good education, because she was a socialite, because she`s beautiful, she would never do this to a child. You never know what somebody might do,
and look what she did.
GRACE: Wait! And look at this, Ashley. Take a look at this Facebook posting. Yes, she`s crazy, all right, like a fox!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:18:08]UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... kidnapping of a 2-year-old. A massive search was launched.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Located alive, along the side of the road in neighboring Rowley, eight miles from her Hamilton home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was naked, her head shaved. Police saw possible cigarette burns and a bruise on the head.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: After executing a search warrant at the former baby- sitter`s home, police arrested Abigail Hanna.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Did you see that big mansion they`re searching? That`s where she and her family live. They just got home from living in London and Surrey,
have traveled abroad, gone to the best schools.
But none of that could stop this girl. After a couple fires her as their baby-sitter, according to police, she goes back into the home in the middle
of the night, steals the baby, who`s just turned 2, shaves the girl`s head, leaves her naked, covered in cigarette burns, on the side of the road.
That`s the tip of the iceberg.
Look at this mansion cops are searching in their effort to figure out what happened to this baby. Now, her claim at the time was she`s incompetent to
stand trial. Let`s take a look at her Facebook postings, Liz.
OK, now, these are pictures she has posted on her own Facebook. Are you looking, attorneys? Check it out. Oh, there`s a selfie. OK, there`s a
quasi-sexy selfie, I guess. There she is with some poor, unsuspecting boyfriend. OK, family shot, looks like a graduation. Oh, picking apples.
There you go, another smiling selfie. Yes, that`s right. She is no more crazy than the man in the moon!
To you, Chris Spargo, Dailymail.com. Now, I want to go back to the fact that the mental health center kicked her out, right?
[20:20:00]SPARGO: That is correct. All these symptoms that she is claiming to have, there are claims that either she (INAUDIBLE) not as bad
as she`s saying, that she`s completely competent to stand trial. And there are even claims now that she may just be faking these symptoms possibly for
attention.
GRACE: OK, unleash the lawyers, Ashley Willcott, Robin Ficker, Mindy Smith. OK, Ficker, clearly she`s -- do you see her Facebook postings?
She`s not crazy!
FICKER: You can`t judge a book by its cover, Nancy. She tried to commit suicide.
GRACE: Are you still saying that?
FICKER: She was committed for a long time. She had post-partum depression.
GRACE: She never had a baby. What are you talking about?
FICKER: She had miscarriage.
GRACE: OK, to Brian Russell, forensic psychologist and creator of the Check on Me app, which is awesome, by the way, Brian. Dr. Russell, what do
you make of this, for a mental health facility where her lawyers conveniently shuttled her off to as soon as this baby was found on the side
of the road naked with her head shaved -- they stick her there. I`ve got a sneaky feeling that they`re doing a deal because this girl`s family is
rich, blue blood, socialite. Somehow, she`s going to get off with treatment and straight probation.
But for a mental facility to kick her out, Brian -- what does that say to you?
BRIAN RUSSELL, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: It says to me that this is most likely the ultimate entitled, spoiled brat who was upset at those parents
for not having her take care of the kid anymore and decided she was going to get at them by hurting that kid.
And the people in the mental place believe she`s nowhere close to incompetent. Like, she`s probably not. But she`s probably watched enough
TV where celebrities get in trouble, and what do they do? They go straight off to rehab and buy themselves some time. I think this looks strategic to
me.
GRACE: I am not letting go of this Abigail Hanna case. I mean, look at this. It looks like the Time Warner CNN center in New York. This is her
mental health facility. It looks like some type of a resort.
You know, Ashley Willcott, certified child welfare law specialist, can we address what nobody`s saying? They took the girl, the baby, to the
hospital because they had to check this child to see if she, the baby, was molested.
The baby is found completely naked. With little babies -- I mean, you have children. Can you remember how defenseless they are at 2 years old? My
little baby, Lucy, I don`t think she -- she had just started walking by that point. Remember how premature they were. And to be covered in
cigarette burns? I mean, the reason they took her to the hospital was to see if she had been molested.
WILLCOTT: Right.
GRACE: Let`s just hold that thought for a moment, a 2-year-old baby.
WILLCOTT: Not only that, but don`t forget that this child was abandoned on the side of the road, Nancy. And so a 2-year-old doesn`t have the capacity
to protect themselves. Anything could have happened to this child on the side of the road. What do you do about that? Could have been hit by a
car, could have fallen into a ditch. A 2-year-old cannot care for itself without supervision.
So in addition to all the abrasions, cigarette burns and injuries, anything could have happened. The child could have been killed.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:27:20]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A little 2-year-old taken from a family`s home sometime after 3:00 in the morning while her parents and 4-year-old
sister are sound asleep. Her head had been shaven. She wasn`t wearing any clothes and suffering a head injury.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Former baby-sitter is now in custody.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Abigail Hanna was a Gordon College student who worked with teens in a summer program.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re searching for a 2-year-old that went missing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) speak with the family and get a detailed description.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Rowley patrol on the air with a report of a child on the side of the road, bruised, Newbury Road.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Step it up. We have a contusion to the head.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That is the head injury we are talking about, a contusion, a blow to the head. This little baby suffered -- to Dr. William Morrone, renowned
forensic pathologist. If you can make -- dummy this down for me. Can you do an exam on a woman and tell if she has ever, say in the past couple
years, had a miscarriage?
MORRONE: When you pass products of conception or babies or unviable babies through the cervix from the uterus into the vagina, you stretch it and it
could tear. And if you`ve never, never, never had a baby, the muscle that os (ph) on the cervix, the muscle that holds the uterus up, is a teeny,
tiny little dot. And that would be considered...
GRACE: Now, hold on. You`re saying if you`ve never had a baby or if you`ve never had a miscarriage. But if you`ve had a miscarriage -- I mean,
she better watch out with this argument that she has been depressed after she had a miscarriage because from what I`m gathering from Morrone, you can
tell if a woman has had a miscarriage or something has passed through the cervix.
Is that correct? Am I saying it correctly?
MORRONE: And we have to check women who have miscarriages so there`s no retained products of conception in the uterus. They need ultrasounds.
They need pelvic exams.
GRACE: OK, I got it. Ah! Thank you. That helps me even more. So you know, all this business about her depression is subject to verification.
And I want to go back to Chris Spargo and Tim McCarthy. So this morning, Tim McCarthy with the Wicket Local Hamilton, everybody`s set in court.
She`s supposed to show up in court where she`s going to claim she`s incompetent to stand trail. But at the last minute, that means the state
has prepared, they`ve got their witnesses to show she is competent, they pull a no-show. They don`t have the hearing.
[20:30:13]
Is this just going to go away? Are they going to just sweep it under the rug and we are never going to hear anymore then one day we`re going to see
a little blurb in the paper that she took a plea for probation? Is that what`s going down because I don`t like that.
TIM MCCARTHY, "WICKED LOCAL" HAMILTON EDITOR: I would seriously doubt that, Nancy because her case is going to continue coming into the next month,
which sounds like that it is likely to continue onwards to the trial.
GRACE: You are darn right we are not letting go of it. Chris Spargo, dailymail.com, what is happening next on this?
CHRIS SPARGO, DAILYMAIL.COM REPORTER: They are meeting again next month. It was the defense, too, that pulled out of today. The defense was having the
competency trial hearing and they are the ones that said we don`t want to have this anymore. So it`s very confusing as to what their strategy is or
what the ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Or, maybe they changed their mind, Chris Spargo, maybe they changed her mind. Now, they don`t think she`s incompetent.
[20:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: The deadly shooting of a 31-year-old man in his own gym parking lot stumps police. But tonight, caught on video, a tall, blond female spotted
sitting in her car over an hour before she pulls out a gun and shoots the guy, dead.
Apparently, out of ammunition, the woman, dressed in gym clothes, then pulls the gun out and pistol-whips the guy, sprinting back to her black car
and speeding away. Tonight, the hunt for the blond gym killer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This video from a witness` cell phone shows the woman with the gun sprinting back to her car.
SGT. MATTHEW BRADY, HOUSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT HOMICIDE DIVISION: He starts to run across the parking lot behind us. She gets out of her car ...
JEB HUTTON, WITNESS: `Oh my God, oh my God,` running away. I see her get out of her car; hear two more shots.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: It is very clear that this woman knows the shooting victim. He bleeds out (inaudible) gym.
Let`s take a look at the best evidence we`re got and that is the video, the surveillance video. There we go. In real time, her running across the
parking lot and there goes her car.
Let`s take it in slomo. She`s got on gym apparel. She`s chasing the guy down, running back to her car.
OK, Matt Zarrell, tell me how the whole thing went down.
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, witnesses say that the woman shot the male victim several times in the parking lot across from the gym and
one thing that`s important here is investigators say that surveillance video shows that the suspect had actually been waiting in her car for at
least an hour before the shooting, appearing to be lying in wait for this victim.
GRACE: Take a look at these very distinguishable workout outfits, workout bra, pink pants, tennis shoes. She`s about six feet tall, blond.
Now let me go to Chris Robinson, ballistics expert with Chris Robinson Forensics, former crime lab director. Now, what will we know immediately if
the bullets are recovered?
CHRIS ROBINSON, FIREARMS EXPERT, FORMER CRIME LAB DIRECTOR: They will be able to determine the caliber and in most circumstances they will be able
to determine the type of gun, was it a Glock, Smith & Wesson, Beretta, that type of thing.
GRACE: Wow. OK, that`s pretty specific. And then ultimately, Chris Robinson, if the gun, the murder weapon is obtained, you can match a bullet
up specifically to a particular gun, it`s like a fingerprint, correct?
ROBINSON: Absolutely. Yes, Ma`am.
GRACE: Dr. William Morrone, Pathologist, joining us tonight. Dr. Morrone, explain what happens when somebody is pistol-whipped?
WILLIAM MORRONE, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: When you`re pistol-whipped, instead of the bullet hitting you, it`s the blunt force of the metal object on a
gun and the impression of the barrel and handle hit you with blunt force.
It can fracture your face if you are hit in the head and it will leave bruises, and those bruises will match the gun that was used to hit you.
GRACE: Wow. OK, I want to go to KTRH news reporter, Nik Rajkovic. Nik, you happen to be familiar, round about, with the victim. What have you learned,
Nik?
NIK RAJKOVIC, KTRH RADIO NEWS REPORTER: Well, good evening, Nancy. I learned that one of my colleagues, a morning traffic reporter at my
station, frequently spoke with the victim during smoke breaks outside of our building. This man worked in my building at a telecom company.
GRACE: Nik, from what we are learning tonight -- everyone, we believe police have identified a target, Veronica Erin Staley, who is the victim`s
ex-girlfriend. What do we know about it, Nik?
RAJKOVIC: Well, just in speaking with my colleague and then some of the people that he knows, you know, smokers are creatures of habit and they all
go down together, and what he`s learning is that the victim`s friends knew of this meeting -- of this encounter. They warned him not to go.
GRACE: They warned him not to go, why, Nik?
GRACE: Well, they just had a sneaky suspicion. I guess they (AUDIO GAP) these two, they just had a bad feeling about this.
GRACE: This is so fatal attraction. Unleash the lawyers, Robin Thicker, Maryland; Mindy Smith, Atlanta.
OK, Robin Thicker, they apparently dated but broke up about two years ago. Here is the murder victim and there`s who we believe has been identified as
person of interest. Two years past, thicker, and she lures him here by -- to the gym - the gym parking lot where he works out.
[20:40:00] ROBIN THICKER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Any woman is going to run like as fast as they can if their boyfriend has just been shot by someone else.
It might have been a drug deal going down.
GRACE: OK, did you actually just say a drug deal went down?
THICKER: It could have been.
GRACE: Could have been?
THICKER: That`s where ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: And a little green man from Mars could have jumped out of the trunk and shot him.
(CROSSTALK)
THICKER: You often have shootings -- you often have shootings going on. That`s why she was waiting. I think a ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: You know what?
THICKER: ... third person did this.
GRACE: You think a third person? OK, to Nik Rajkovic, is there any indication that this was part of a drug deal gone wrong?
RAJKOVIC: No, there was no indication from all eye witness accounts. This was the woman who was pulling the trigger.
GRACE: Tonight, police still looking for information on the blond gym killer. A (inaudible) Veronica Erin Staley, 34 years old, who dated the
dead victim two years ago, before the break up -- I think I know who broke up, before she apparently lures him for a lunch date.
His friends tell him not to go and now he`s dead. This, the only evidence we`ve got.
[20:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Police and EMTs race to the scene to find a teen girl burning alive in a horrific lighter fluid attack. Just before her death, does this girl
whisper her killer`s name to police?
And tonight, will legal shenanigans let a killer walk free?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jessica Chambers doused with a flammable liquid and set on fire.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Someone poured an accelerant on Chambers and set her on fire.
BEN CHAMBERS, JESSICA CHAMBERS` FATHER: She was burned on 98 percent of her body.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jessica Chambers ended up with burns over most of her body off a rural road in her hometown of Portland.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Martin Savidge, joining me tonight, CNN correspondent. Martin, I am absolutely sick about what is happening in this case. Before I get to the
case, another young girl dead, Mandy Hsiao.
First, I want to talk about Jessica Chambers. Show me, Liz, if you don`t mind, the video of the gas station where Jessica is last spotted alive.
Now, she says she`s going to go clean out her car and get gas, and here she is that night, all by herself, minding her own business, she straightens
out her car, she fills the tank up with gas.
There she is, the last known spotting, the last sighting of Jessica. There you go. She`s going back to her car, hops in. That`s all we know.
The next thing we know, we discover Jessica`s car burned to a crisp. Look at this. The girl, Jessica Chambers, burned alive. And what`s so
disturbing, to top it all off, apparently lighter fluid is thrown on her face, possibly down her mouth and/or nose and she`s set on fire.
Martin Savidge, what more do we know about Jessica`s death?
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Nancy, I am going to agree with you, this is one of the most horrific stories I have ever covered and I
have covered a lot of them.
And what we know is that this started as a telephone call to the local fire department, somebody passing by late at night on a rural road in the dark
and saw a burning car.
The local volunteer fire department shows up there. And just as they are setting up their hoses to put out this horrific blaze, one of them says
they saw what they thought was an apparition, it was Jessica Chambers, horribly burned, stepping out of the smoke, coming towards him.
And he recognized her because it was such a small town. She collapses and whispers a name, according to authorities, in one of her last breaths. So,
it is a horrible, horrible, case. And it was a terrible mystery.
GRACE: Now -- now, let me take you to, Martin Savidge, the case of another young girl, a beautiful young girl, Mandy Hsiao, who is studying in school
in Louisiana.
Now, this is what I know, Martin, and tell me what else you know, but she has her ATM card stolen by a guy named Quinton Tellis, 27 years old. OK?
He`s spotted three times using her stolen ATM. He`s on camera at the ATM. Then, they find her dead body, Mandy Hsiao`s dead body. And in my mind,
Martin, if we could identify the time of her death, it would be around the time that ATM card is stolen and he is walking on a 10-year sentence for
one ATM card theft ...
(CROSSTALK)
SAVIDGE: Right. It was seen ...
GRACE: ... when he is there, stealing her card, her ATM card, at the time she`s killed? And police think this guy killed Jessica Chambers and he is
walking free on a 10-year sentence? Max, he`ll do 3 years on that.
SAVIDGE: Right. It makes no sense that he is going to get off with just a 10-year sentence when it would appear that the authorities have all the
evidence they need to prosecute him for this young lady`s murder. But apparently, they don`t ...
[20:50:00] GRACE: I don`t want to see his face. Keep this guy down. I don`t even want to look at him because what is he getting, Martin, a two-for-one?
Because ...
SAVIDGE: He`s getting ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... they`re not prosecuting ...
(CROSSTALK)
SAVIDGE: ... he`s getting ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: It`s awful!
SAVIDGE: ... fraudulent use of the credit card is what he was charged with. They did not charge him at all with her death even though she had been
stabbed multiple times and even though the police had video that showed her in his company multiple times. They did not charge him with murder.
He also had marijuana on his possession, and they haven`t charged him with that. Instead, he gets a plea deal, and 10 years is what he ...
GRACE: Ten years max. Ten years max he`s getting. So there are two dead girls and he is getting one conviction on theft of an ATM card? Let me
understand something regarding Jessica Chambers. Hold on. I`m just being joined right now by Jessica`s mother, Lisa.
Ms. Chambers, there is not been a single time that we`ve gone to air that many of us don`t think of your daughter, Jessica, and will her case ever be
resolved? I would like to hear what you have to say tonight to this guy, Quentin Tellis who is suspected in Jessica`s murder. A horrific murder.
LISA CHAMBERS, JESSICA CHAMBERS` MOTHER: He will not get away with it. And I think that he should also be charged with Mandy after he ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Do you remember ...
(CROSSTALK)
L. CHAMBERS: ... with Jessica.
GRACE: Ms. Chambers, do you remember the night that you found out that your daughter was dead? And I recall her dad telling me how he raced to the
hospital. How he tried to get there before she passed away. And I can only imagine his drive trying to get to that hospital before his baby went to
heaven. Do you remember when you learned what had happened to Jessica?
L. CHAMBERS: Yes, Ma`am. (Excuse me) I had just texted Jessica and Daddy came and -- Ben`s wife came to the (inaudible) and said the law was down
there. And Jessica had been burned. And I was like, No, I just talked to her. And she said, come to the shop. They`re down there waiting. And we got
down there and I rode with them and Daddy.
[20:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jessica Chambers was burned alive inside of her car and left for dead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Chambers was found engulfed in flames.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He will never walk the streets again.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice is coming, baby.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Is it? Is justice coming? Because if this is the right guy that killed Jessica Chambers by burning her alive, he is walking virtually free
on the murder of another young girl, Mandy Hsiao in Louisiana.
He only got convicted of using her ATM card without her permission. Straight out to Martin Savidge, and Tim Wilhelm joining me, Senior Fire
Investigator with Robson Forensic. Tim, how can we tell whether accelerant like lighter fluid was poured down her throat or on her body?
TIM WILHELM, ROBSON FORENSIC SENIOR FIRE INVESTIGATOR: Nancy, I`m sure that the investigators were meticulous in taking samples to be analyzed for
identifications of the accelerant. And during the autopsy there would also be samples to determine if there was lighter fluid or accelerant poured
into her throat.
GRACE: Martin Savidge, CNN correspondent who has been on the story from the very beginning. What this means, Marty, is that he walks free with a max.
He will probably do what, two or three years on the theft of Mandy`s ATM card in Louisiana? I don`t know what they were thinking. I would rather
take the case to court and lose it than give him a cheap plea deal.
SAVIDGE: Because there is part of this deal where he is waiving his extradition rights and he is going to go to Mississippi. The belief is that
the Mississippi officials have a stronger case with the Jessica Chambers death that they can pursue against him.
GRACE: You know, Marty, I`ve always agreed with you on practically everything you`ve ever said. But, Martin, you know what an extradition is.
So what if he waives it? All they do is do your fingerprint and say, Martin Savidge, is this you? And if you say yes, you`re extradited.
So don`t do me any favors of waiving extradition. I want this guy behind bars. He`s killed two women, according to police. What is it, a two-for-one
sale, Martin Savidge? Is that what`s going on?
SAVIDGE: What goes on is you have got a family deeply in grief. And this is their chance to have the trial that could convict the man who murdered
their daughter.
GRACE: I hope you`re right, Martin Savidge. I hope you`re right.
Let`s remember American hero Army Sergeant Jeremy Hodge, just 20, Rushsylvania, Ohio. Bronze star, Purple Heart. Loved the outdoors, NASCAR,
motorcycles. Parents, Mike and Michelle; sisters, Alyssa, Nicole and Denise. Jeremy Hodge, American hero.
A special goodnight from 4H superstars, Bo, Tess and Kathy. And happy birthday to Child Welfare advocate, our beautiful Ashley Willcot. Happy
birthday, Ashley.
Thanks for being with us, all of our guests but especially to you. Nancy Grace, signing off. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8 o`clock sharp, Eastern.
And until then, good night, friend.
[21:00:00]
END
