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Nancy Grace
Woman Lures Ex to Lunch, Shoots Him Dead; Woman Found Dead in Storage Unit After Meeting Man from Dating App; Robert Fisher Vanished After Killing Family and Blowing Up Family Home. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired May 19, 2016 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: Breaking news tonight. The deadly shooting of a 30-year-old man in his gym parking lot stumps police. But tonight, caught
on video, a tall blond female spotted sitting in her car over an hour before she pulls out a revolver and shoots the guy dead. Apparently, she`s
out of ammo. The woman, dressed in gym clothes, then pistol whips the guy, sprints back to her black Hyundai and speeds away.
And to top it all off, did someone Snapchat a picture of the victim as he bleeds out dead in the parking lot? Who did that? Did she do that?
Tonight, the hunt for the blond gym killer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She killed a guy over here, though.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s exactly what this video shows. Police say running to her car while wearing workout clothes is Veronica Erin Staley as
she chased her ex-boyfriend across the parking lot.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Firing on him, at least three shots.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: A Tinder dating app enthusiast lurks (ph) the city of Seattle? A 33-year-old Colorado Springs woman, Julie Terson (ph), found dead at a
storage unit after finding what she thought was true love with a man who uses the highly popular dating app Tinder. Tonight, police asking any
women who communicated with this man on Tinder, please come forward.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Accused of killing his ex-girlfriend.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Found shot dead in her minivan parked at a Colorado Springs public storage unit.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Possible evidence here at the dump site.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Combed inch by inch through tons and tons of trash. Wu (ph) was particularly active on dating app Tinder.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Investigators want to talk to anyone who may have chatted with him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Did a Navy vet, a former fireman, cardiovascular specialist at the Mayo Clinic, shoot his beautiful wife, slitting the throats of her and his
two young children in their own beds, burning down the house to destroy evidence after he has a one-night fling with a hooker, a prostitute, a
quote, "loving dad," 6-feet-1, a big game hunter who goes to church, changes the oil in his Dodge Ram and does home repairs?
Tonight, the FBI says Robert Fisher (ph) heavily armed, including a high- powered rifle, with ties to new Mexico and Florida. Investigators breaking down on the scene when they find accelerant, gasoline, poured around the
little children`s beds to burn their bodies.
Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. The deadly shooting of a 30-year-old man in a gym parking lot stumps police, but tonight, caught on video, a tall, blond
female -- we`ve identified she`s 5-8 -- spotted sitting in her car over an hour, actually moving positions within the parking lot, ultimately picking
a spot kind of out of the way in that parking lot.
She pulls out a revolver, we have learned, and shoots this guy dead. Then apparently, she`s out of ammo. The woman, dressed in matching pink and
orange gym clothes, then pistol whips the guy as he`s laying on the ground bleeding out. She pistol whips him in the face with the butt of the
pistol. He`s dying. And she sprints back to her black Hyundai and speeds away.
And catch this. Did someone Snapchat a picture of him as he bleeds out dead in the parking lot? Who would do that? Did she do that, send out a
Snapchat photo of him bleeding out dead? Tonight, the hunt for the blond gym killer.
First thing, let`s look at state`s evidence exhibit number 1, the video. There you see her. She is dressed in a pink and orange -- as I recall --
coordinating ensemble. That`s something you really can`t forget when you hear bullets and see that dashing through the parking lot. She runs --
this woman runs to a black Hyundai, gets in and speeds off. The guy is left to bleed out in the parking lot.
Tonight, stunning new developments. Did an ex-girlfriend lure him to lunch, all with the plan of shooting him dead even after his friends warn
him, Don`t go?
[20:05:08]Joining me right now is a very close friend of the victim, Al Memovic. Freddy, I want to thank you for being with us. Freddy, you have
known Al since you guys were in high school, right?
FREDDY ADAMS, FRIEND OF VICTIM (via telephone): Yes, ma`am.
GRACE: Freddy, did you live through this relationship he had with Veronica Staley?
ADAMS: Yes, ma`am.
GRACE: OK, what did you know about her? Here is pictured Veronica Staley and the victim, Al. What was their relationship like? What do you know,
Freddy?
ADAMS: They had a pretty general relationship at the beginning, you know, kind of getting to know each other and feel each other out. And things
just kind of got a little bit more rocky as it went on. And it was -- if she didn`t get her way, she got pretty upset and then she got kind of
manipulative about it. And it was a bunch of...
GRACE: Well, wait a minute! Wait a minute, Freddy! Joining me is Freddy Adams out of Houston, a very close friend of Al, the shooting victim.
Isn`t it true that when he would try to break up with her, she would go berserk and threaten to burn all of his clothing and somehow portray it as
if she were the victim?
ADAMS: Yes, ma`am.
GRACE: What did he tell you about trying to break up with her?
ADAMS: He would always tell me that it was -- it was very difficult to do so because she tried to make herself into the victim of -- you know, she
just wasn`t getting her way and that he didn`t, you know, do what she wanted and...
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa! Wait a minute! Matt Zarrell, what is that? Is that her?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Yes, that is, Nancy. We discovered that on her social media pages.
GRACE: OK, whatever you do, don`t take down that lower third. I don`t want to see what`s under it. OK, Freddy Adams joining us, a friend of the
shooting victim. Let`s get to know Veronica Erin Staley a little bit better. Look what she posted on line.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sorry, my friends are so horny, pretty petals (ph), you adore me, Yellow Rose of Texas, baby I`m a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) classy
lady coming at you (EXPLETIVE DELETED) pay me I`ll never, ever have your baby!
I know some day you`ll have a beautiful life. I know you`ll be the sun in somebody else`s sky. Why, why, why!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK, I really don`t even know what to say to that first one. That`s from Veronica Staley`s own YouTube page that she has titled, JustaGirl. If
you can rack that first one back up for me, Justin?
So Freddy Adams, did you hear that screaming and cursing? OK, I`ve seen enough of that. Thanks, Justin. You can take that down.
Freddy, what exactly did your friend Al say about what would happen when he tried to break up with her?
ADAMS: There was a lot of screaming and cursing, just like you heard. And it was always the, you know, same old, Oh, woe is me, and you don`t care
about me, situation and just, you know, throwing a big fit over, you know, him trying to leave.
GRACE: You are seeing a shot of Veronica Staley. We have tried to reach her, but we`ve gotten no comment. We`re waiting for a lawyer.
Straight out to Robert Arnold, CNN affiliate KPRC. Robert, thank you for being with us. I want to go over what we know happened the day of the
shooting. Go ahead.
ROBERT ARNOLD, KPRC CORRESPONDENT: Well, according to Houston police, Veronica had asked to meet with Al in this gym parking lot. What`s
interesting is, according to the owner of the gym, neither of them were members of the gym and neither had actually been inside the gym, so why
exactly they met in this parking lot, they`re not sure.
However, she waited there. He showed up. And as you see from the video and what you`ve seen in the police report, police say she shot him several
times. He started to run. She followed him, fired a couple more times. Then, as you saw, when she was out of bullets, then she started to pistol
whip him. She got in her car and she drove off.
Now, police got that video out to the public pretty quickly again because she is a tall woman, she was dressed in those bright colors. They thought
she`d be easily recognizable. And according to police, relatives saw that video on the news, recognized her and called investigators.
And in fact, they arrested her yesterday at a relative`s home. They say she surrendered peacefully to that. Now, according to police, she admitted
to the...
GRACE: Well, hold on just a moment. Wait just a moment! We have conflicting reports on what you`re just -- what you`re just saying, Robert
Arnold.
Matt Zarrell, first of all, I want to back it up. So that night -- isn`t it true that she lives in an apartment in Galveston, a luxury apartment, as
a matter of fact, one with three swimming pools, flowering plants, palm trees, waterfalls, tennis courts, the works. This is where she lives in
Galveston, which is about an hour away from the shooting.
[20:10:18]Now, for her to get to the shooting, she had to drive about an hour. At first, we understood that she had talked openly about the
shooting to police, but what are we learning tonight, Matt Zarrell?
ZARRELL: What we`re learning tonight is that Veronica Staley has allegedly she told police she doesn`t remember shooting or pistol whipping the
victim.
GRACE: Whoa! Doesn`t remember? Doesn`t remember?
Unleash the lawyers, Danny Cevallos, CNN legal analyst, defense attorney, Carissa Kranz, multi-state attorney joining us out of New York. First to
you, Danny Cevallos. Doesn`t remember?
OK, while we`re talking, Charles, could you show her speeding out of the parking lot in her black Hyundai? Because she had the wherewithal to get
her keys, run to her car, which she could find in the parking lot, put the keys in the ignition, put it in reverse, put it in drive and tear out of
there like a bat out of H-E-L-L in a parking lot, all right? People were so afraid in that parking lot, Danny, that they hid in their cars and
behind their cars.
So how is it she has the wherewithal to flee the scene but she doesn`t remember anything that happened?
DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Nancy, memory loss isn`t necessarily connected to a loss of motor skills or something else. I mean, the reality
is, if she`s going to allege some sort of memory loss, she still has to negate...
GRACE: Memory loss.
CEVALLOS: ... the intent of what she did. And if she can find an expert to that, if she pursues that angle, then she`s quite an uphill battle. But
if that`s what she`s saying right now, that she doesn`t recall...
GRACE: She`s stuck with it now.
CEVALLOS: ... we all know -- you look back to the Huey Newton case. There are -- there is a history of cases where defendants have unconscious
episodes and they do things that they don`t remember.
GRACE: OK, hold on. Hold on. Isn`t it true, Matt Zarrell, that she arrives at the gym parking lot over an hour before her ex-lover does? Now,
he has finally broken up with her. About two years have passed. She lures him back by saying she wants to go to an innocent lunch.
Isn`t it true, Matt, that she waits in the parking lot, goes to different spots and finally picks one that is secluded? And then what?
ZARRELL: Yes, exactly, Nancy. And one thing that`s important is that this lot was secluded. There are two different parking lots. One is the main
entrance that`s very open, with a lot of businesses and a lot of people. The other lot is a back secluded lot. And one thing to note. Neither of
them attended this gym. So how would she know to go to the secluded lot unless she had scoped it out before and contacted him before, knowing this
was a secluded lot and had planned this in advance?
GRACE: And Carissa Kranz, they never had lunch. He walks up, she immediately whips out a revolver and goes after him.
CARISSA KRANZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, she`s mentally ill. She -- who knows why she was there an hour before. Maybe he was late and that
triggered her. But I...
GRACE: Put her up! Who knows why she was there? She was packing heat to kill him. That`s why she`s there.
KRANZ: She doesn`t remember it. She`s clearly mentally ill.
GRACE: OK...
KRANZ: Only a mentally ill person is going to go run and pistol whip someone after they`re already dead.
GRACE: Or someone that`s just pure out (ph) evil. Take a look at this girl.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`ve got the juice and that`s not it I will be your - - he said don`t be mad if you`re not big like Lady Gaga, but I never said you`re not smart enough to be a doctor...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That`s Veronica Staley`s YouTube page, JustaGirl.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:17:46]UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Seen on surveillance video in gym clothes leaving a south West Side parking lot near a gym and car shop, and then
driving off in a car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police were eventually called to the scene. Investigators found out the estranged couple planned to meet here, but it`s
unclear what the circumstances were.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: A man is shot dead in a parking lot, but a bystander catches this video, a tall woman about 5-8, blond, in pink and orange workout gear,
screaming at the guy. When she runs out of ammo, pistol whips him as he`s down on the ground bleeding out dead.
As it turns out, this woman, Veronica Staley, was once the lover of the victim, apparently lures him back to a lunch two years after they break up,
he breaks up with her. She`s doing a slow burn all this time -- chases him down screaming at him in the parking lot and shoots him dead and pistol
whips him.
Now, let`s take a sneak peek at who this woman really is. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sorry my friends (ph) are so horny, pretty petals (ph) you adore me, yellow rose of Texas baby, I`m a (EXPLETIVE DELETED)
classy lady coming at you (EXPLETIVE DELETED) pay me I`ll never, ever have your baby!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK. That is from Veronica Staley`s YouTube page that she has titled JustaGirl.
Joe Scott Morgan, certified death investigator, professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University -- Joe Scott, the pistol whipping after the
guy is already dying, saying, Oh, my God, oh, my God, and he`s dying on the parking lot, the ground, and she then pistol whips him.
What`s significant is that you know when police recover that revolver, it is going -- if this is the woman and this is the gun, it`s going to be
covered in his DNA.
JOE SCOTT MORGAN, CERTIFIED DEATH INVESTIGATOR: Yes, it will, Nancy. And if you take a real close look at that particular weapon, it`s got a ribbed
barrel that`s got those little ports on top of it. Also, this is a revolver. It`s got some very distinctive edges. What`s really important
here is connectivity relative to pattern injuries.
[20:20:05]If she struck him with this weapon, there are going to be marks that are unique to that revolver that you`ll find on his person, on his
body. And it would not surprise me if some of this blood and tissue and DNA transferred over to her. I`d be very curious as to what happened to
her, you know, ensemble that she was seen wearing in the parking lot, as well as the weapon.
GRACE: To Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, author of "Dealbreakers." Dr. Bethany, first of all, I don`t know what it says that she dresses up in
hot pink and orange ensemble to murder somebody. But also, the pistol whipping after you`ve shot him. It`s like you`re killing him over and
over.
But then what about her claim that -- how convenient! What if everybody over in the jail said, Oh, I don`t remember? And as you`re answering,
Bethany, watch your monitor because I want you to see the fan dance. Go ahead.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: All right. Well, the thing -- boy, that`s very distracting, Nancy.
The idea that she doesn`t remember is what we call malingering amnesia, meaning it`s making up a fictitious disorder, that she doesn`t remember
what happens at the time. This would be consistent with a disorder that we call borderline personality disorder, where there`s incredible
revengefulness and plotting and planning in the face of perceived rejection.
Nancy, she must have been stalking this guy for some time, the planning that went into this, that she lured him to the parking lot. One of the
things we see with a borderline personality disorder is they really know how to plot and plan, and when they`re vengeful, they can plan forever.
GRACE: Well, I heard you say borderline personality disorder, which is not insanity.
Everyone, tonight, this woman, Veronica Staley, suspected of the murder of her former lover, Al Memovic. That`s from her YouTube page that you were
seeing earlier called JustaGirl.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:25:58]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police report accuses Staley of shooting Memovic in the parking lot of a gym, chasing him down, firing at him again
and then hitting him with the pistol.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Joining me now from KTRH, Nik Rajkovic. Nik, thank you for being with us. I understand that she had been telling relatives that she was
leaving town, and she had been saying this for some time. That night, she didn`t go back home to her apartment in Galveston. Instead, she goes and
stays with family. They see this on television, and they sneak off and call police because they`re afraid of her.
What more do we know?
NIK RAJKOVIC, KTRH RADIO (via telephone): Well, all we know is that -- I mean, she`s obviously posting some disturbing videos on line. And they had
a troubled relationship. Some of her family have described seeing Memovic at holiday parties, that they were aware of this, aware of the situation.
But obviously, I mean, seeing this on television, that would scare me, too. I`d have to call the cops on one of my relatives, as well..
GRACE: Now, to Freddy Adams, a close friend of the victim. He was quite accomplished, right? He had gotten his degree in biology. He spoke
several different languages, including Bosnian. He was a hero because during the recent floods -- he had been, I guess, an EMT or paramedic -- he
went out to save people during the floods. This guy was the all-American good guy, right?
ADAMS: Every day of the week, all-American good guy and always wanted to help people.
GRACE: When he was -- I mean, there are a lot of pictures of them not so long ago. He would go to family get-togethers, parties, holiday events.
It seems like she just wouldn`t let him go.
ADAMS: It`s just a -- she wouldn`t let it go, and it might have been a jealousy factor of, Maybe, if, you know, I can`t have him, nobody else can
have him, kind of situation. It`s just like -- it seems like it was more of an obsession at that point in time and...
GRACE: Why did he stay with her then?
ADAMS: Well, he -- this -- as far as the holiday party, they went to the holiday parties whenever they got together. And they were together. After
that, they kind of split, but he kept in contact with her family. And you know, from time to time, he would keep in contact with her just to make
sure that she was doing OK because once he cared about somebody, he never stopped caring about somebody.
GRACE: Everybody, you`re seeing her on her YouTube page called JustaGirl.
[20:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: A Tinder dating app enthusiast lurking the city of Seattle? A 33- year-old Colorado Springs woman, Julie Tureson, found dead at a storage unit after finding what she thinks is true love with a man who uses the
highly popular dating app, Tinder.
Tonight, police asking any women who have communicated with this guy on Tinder, please, come forward.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An active life, investigators say, especially online.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Accused of killing his ex-girlfriend, 38-year-old James Woo rented the storage unit where Julie Tureson`s body was found.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shot dead in her minivan.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Investigators did mention Woo has been using the dating app, Tinder.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s the potential that many individuals could have had interactions with him there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Andrew Rogers with KRDO. What can you tell me about this storage facility?
ANDREW ROGERS, KRDO RADIO REPORTER: Now, Nancy, the storage facility was actually rented to James Woo 12 days before Julie`s body was found inside.
GRACE: How do we know he is a Tinder app enthusiast?
ROGERS: We`ve heard from authorities, both in the Colorado Springs area and in the San Francisco Bay area that he was very active on the dating app in
both areas and would frequently fly from Colorado to California and vice versa to meet up with women.
GRACE: Really? So he`d fly all over trying to meet up with women that he meets initially on Tinder?
ROGERS: Yes, ma`am.
GRACE: Huh. With me, Andrew Rogers, KRDO. Now, it`s very unusual we find out about the way he allegedly controlled Julie Tureson`s life. What do we
know about that, Andrew Rogers?
ROGERS: Well, we know four days before she disappeared, authorities were called to her house on a harassment call basically right after their
breakup. She said he was posting unauthorized images of her on the internet and then asking if they could have "hate sex."
GRACE: Have what?
ROGERS: Hate sex.
GRACE: OK, Stacey Newman, on the story, what is that?
[20:35:00] STACEY NEWMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, apparently this man was so obsessed with her, she had broken up with him two weeks before she
went missing and he apparently was harassing her. She had made a 911 call about that and part of the harassment included the strange text messages to
her in which he asked her for rough hate sex.
GRACE: And isn`t it true, Andrew Rogers, KRDO, that the neighbors would get texts or e-mails from Julie. We later find out they`re really from him
giving them rules to follow when they spend time with Julie.
ROGERS: That`s right. Neighbors even reported having altercations with Woo after they had broken up, even trying to meet up with him afterwards. He
never showed up.
They also said that there were other strange incidents where he was setting up cameras at her home and tracking her cell phone with the GPS.
GRACE: Man, why didn`t she break up with this guy? Unleash the lawyers, Danny Cevallos, defense attorney in New York; Carissa Kranz, multi-state
attorney.
So, Carissa, he`s setting up camera surveillance in her home, the girl he`s dating, Julie Tureson.
He`s sending the neighbors rules for spending time with Julie and pretending they`re from Julie. He wants to have, "hate sex" with her after
she tries to break up with him.
And you`re telling me, Carissa Kranz, with all that in mind, that somebody else killed her and left the body in a storage unit?
CARISSA KRANZ, MULTI-STATE ATTORNEY: Well, we don`t know who killed her. We don`t have proof directly linking him to the crime.
We have proof that it`s his storage unit and he had access to the storage unit, but that does not mean that he actually executed the killing.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: OK, hold on. Let me -- let me see the photo that I was looking at earlier, Justin. The photo -- oh, whoa! Carissa, who`s that? Oh, it`s him.
It`s James Woo.
Where is he? He is going into the storage unit where her body is found. Do you know when that was taken, Carissa?
KRANZ: When was that taken, Nancy?
GRACE: Around the time of her murder.
KRANZ: Around the time of her murder is not -- is not exact enough to prove that he committed the murder.
GRACE: OK. Are you serious? I guess you got to do what you got to do, right? So that`s your defense. OK, Cevallos, I see you chomping at the bit.
Jump in.
CEVALLOS: Nancy, look. As usual, you take your -- you ignore your good evidence, and then you go off on a tangent about this stuff with the hate
sex. I mean, this sex, that sex. The reality is you`re right. If he was ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: What are you talking about ...
CEVALLOS: ... near the place at the time of ...
GRACE: ... this sex, that sex?
(CROSSTALK)
CEVALLOS: Well, look, there was the compelling evidence of the fact that this was his ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Put him up. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
(CROSSTALK)
CEVALLOS: ... that this was -- put me back up.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: You`re the only one that has said "this sex, that sex." I said "hate sex" because he wrote that to her. I`m not making that up. I`ve never even
heard of it till he said it.
CEVALLOS: Look, maybe I don`t even know about the regular kind. Let alone the hate sex. But the bottom line is that they found the body in the -- in
that storage bin. That`s compelling evidence.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: OK.
CEVALLOS: But then what happens is you start getting into all this other, well, this is what they did online, he was on Tinder. Look, one of the
things that no one will really admit to is that guys are creepy. Guys are on Tinder. That doesn`t make them killers. But if you leave a body in your
storage bin, that might do the trick.
GRACE: So I take it now you`re taking it all on the prosecution?
(CROSSTALK)
CEVALLOS: Not at all. I`m focusing on the gravity and then focusing on the evidence that`s junk.
GRACE: A-huh. OK, Andrew Rogers, KRDO, tell me what was found, the new details that have emerged about what was found in that storage unit.
ROGERS: Now, when authorities found that storage unit, they found her black SUV, they found her body with a blue cloth over her face and she was
handcuffed into the interior passenger door covered in a white substance.
GRACE: Covered in a white substance. Could that possibly, Joe Scott Morgan, Jacksonville State University forensic professor, had been lime so no one
could smell the decay of her body?
JOSEPH SCOTT MORGAN, CERTIFIED DEATH INVESTIGATOR: Yeah, absolutely. It could have been, Nancy. It could be any number of things. Right now,
they`re doing tests to determine what it exactly is. I think it`s kind of compelling that her face has been covered. That tells us a lot as death
investigators.
GRACE: And what does that tell you?
MORGAN: Well, it`s actually called face covering. When you have an intimate relationship with someone and you perpetrate violence upon them, many times
what the perpetrator will do would literally kill -- cover the face of the individual that they have killed so that the eyes, the eyes aren`t looking
back at the perpetrator. It unnerves these individuals. You see this over and over and over again.
GRACE: You know, Ben Levitan, telecommunications expert, out of Raleigh. Ben, you know what I think is going to carry the day for the state here?
BEN LEVITAN, TELECOMMUNICATIONS EXPERT: What`s that, Nancy?
GRACE: The cell phone data. Because apparently she still had her cell phone with her. And if we can link up the last pings on her phone before it went
dead, I guarantee you they`re going to be at that storage unit.
If we can match that up to the time that he was with her, we can then establish a timeline that puts him with her at that storage unit. How will
it work, Ben, if the phone goes dead?
[20:40:00] LEVITAN: Well, Nancy, you`ve got it exactly right. If police located her by pinging her cell phone, basically every cell phone has a GPS
in it, Nancy. And what police were able to do is send a message to that phone and have it return its exact GPS location.
If we also look at his cell phone records and they follow the same path, Nancy, that`s pretty convincing. That is pretty convincing that they were
together until she got to that storage unit, and then he left there.
GRACE: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst out of L.A., what does it say to you, Dr. Bethany? Let`s analyze the clues.
Clues are worth nothing unless you analyze them and milk every clue for every bit of evidence you can get out of it.
She`s handcuffed to the door. Did he leave her there alive and she died handcuffed? I mean, why else handcuff her to the door unless she was alive
and could get away?
MARSHALL: Well, I agree with you, Nancy, because one of the things I keep thinking is that sociopaths relate to women on the basis of power rather
than affection. The idea of trusting, loving, affection and ties mean nothing to them.
This guy wanted to have the ultimate power over her. He posed and called the neighbors, he intruded on her, he stalked her online ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Hey, Bethany ...
MARSHALL: ... posted pictures ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Bethany, what about this ...
MARSHALL: Yes?
GRACE: ... when they find the guy he`s got one foot on the plane to Hong Kong to meet his wife?
MARSHALL: Oh, no, Nancy.
GRACE: What? What about that, Bethany?
MARSHALL: And how many other women did he have in the same city in which he was having a relationship with her?
You know, one of the things these guys do is they pick one woman that they want to triumph over, they want to have power over and they`ll control that
woman while having sex with a lot of other women.
[20:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Did a Navy vet, a former fireman, cardiovascular specialist at the Mayo Clinic, shoot his beautiful wife and slit the throat of his two young
children and wife in their own beds, burning down the house to destroy evidence after he has a one-night fling with a hooker, a prostitute?
A "loving dad," 6`1", a big game hunter who goes to church, changes the oil in his Dodge Ram, does home repairs.
Well, tonight, the FBI says Robert Fisher is heavily armed including a high-powered rifle. He`s got ties to New Mexico and Florida. Investigators
break down on the crime scene when they find the gasoline poured around the children`s beds to burn their bodies.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say husband and father, Robert Fisher, vanished after killing his wife and two children and blowing up the family home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Found within the home is what is believed to be an adult female and two children.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Authorities say Fisher slit all three of their throats from ear to ear, shot his wife in the head, then poured accelerant over the
bodies and caused the house to explode.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Oh, Robert Anglen, with "The Arizona Republic" investigative reporter, why? Why? Slit the throats of your own children, your wife?
Pouring accelerant around their beds, even on the children`s bodies?
Why? What was the motivation? So what if he spent the night with a hooker? I mean, why this, Robert?
ROBERT ANGLEN, "THE ARIZONA REPUBLIC" INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Well, he didn`t kill the family dog. But he apparently had a pathology. He was
living a dual life and he had control issues.
GRACE: What do you mean "he was living a dual life?"
Everybody, that`s an ATM shot of him the night of the murders. And we believe by looking at the timeline, there he is in the family vehicle, that
he killed them, staged the scene, lit a candle and when a candle would reach a certain point, the whole place would blow up.
So at that moment, we believe when he is at the ATM withdrawing money to go on the run, he was waiting for his home to blow. Robert Anglen, what do you
mean "he had a double life?"
ANGLEN: Well, he portrayed himself as a family man, a church-going family man. But he also, according to relatives and people who knew him best, said
he was often (ph) around his family, he had serious control issues, lorded over his children, so there was a facade. And when his wife called him on
it, he killed her.
GRACE: You know, Matt Zarrell, isn`t it true that, according to reports, he repeatedly would humiliate the wife? Like one time when she disagreed with
him about something, he took the garden hose and sprayed her, ruined her hair and her clothes and everything because she`d spoke up and disagreed
about something?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Yes, they would often fight about sex. He would tell the whole family what time to get up, what time to go to bed,
what clothes to wear, what to eat.
He`d only let his wife paint the walls white. They couldn`t paint it anything else. There were no pictures, only very few pictures allowed on
the walls. And yet he was very awkward with his children.
He complained about how his son didn`t know how to fish, because Fisher was a big fisherman and he complained numerous times about the relationship
with his children.
GRACE: Joining me right now is a special guest, Special Agent Robert Caldwell, former FBI case agent on this investigation.
Agent Caldwell, thank you for being with us. I know he`s a big outdoorsman, a hunter, a fisher. Do you believe he could survive in the wild and escape
police?
[20:50:00] SPECIAL AGENT ROBERT CALDWELL, FORMER FBI CASE AGENT: Initially, when the investigation began, yes. But due to his back issues that he had,
by now, obviously, he is going to need help, whether hooking up with somebody or getting a prescription for medication to help the pain in his
back. He is going to need some kind of help to be managing that, but to be living in the woods at this stage of the game, I would be very surprised if
he ...
GRACE: I want to ask you this. With me is a special guest, special agent, Robert Caldwell, former FBI agent on this case. What is the FBI profile on
this guy?
CALDWELL: You know, we put together, not knowing him at the beginning, and we went out and interviewed all his friends, family, associates, church
members, anyone who had any contact with him, and it basically was a Dr. Jekyll, Mr. Hyde, Mr. Fisher.
He was different ways with different people. To the family, he appeared to be a good, loving family man. To co-workers, he was very egocentric and
(inaudible) at himself tying to make himself to be the big man, and to other friends, he was very awkward. He kind of alienated his friends after
a while. He was very difficult to get along with.
GRACE: We want to catch this guy, 1-800-CALL-FBI, 1-800-225-5324, $100,000 reward.
In Richmond, nearly 40 percent of children are in extreme poverty, facing violence and drugs. This week, CNN Hero has become an unlikely father
figure, teaching children in Richmond`s public housing the sport of mountain bike racing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CRAIG DODSON, NOMINATED 2016 CNN HERO: What a lot of people can`t see is that our kids have the equivalent of 10 suitcases each of baggage that they
are carrying on that bike.
These kids can tell me to piss off at any time but what am I going to do? There are connections being made. This is a war to me. It`s me against the
circumstances that these kids live in.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: To see is full story, go to cnnheroes.com., nominated 2016 hero.
[20:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fisher, a former Navy firefighter was spotted on surveillance, taking out money from an ATM hours before the killings.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A man who allegedly killed his wife and children then lit their Scottsdale home on fire to cover his tracks.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fisher is considered armed and extremely dangerous and is among the FBI`S 10 most wanted.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Slitting the throats of his two children and his wife, shooting her in the back of the head, dousing their bodies with gasoline to cover up the
evidence and goes on the run.
Unleash the lawyers, Cevallos and Kranz. So, Cevallos, how can it be anybody else? Why would he go on the run and leave his wife and children
behind, dead?
CEVALLOS: Those are some problematic facts, Nancy. But the fact remains is that with no evidence actually tying him actually doing the crime, they`re
going to have to make an argument that he just went on the run which I know doesn`t look particularly good, but you still to have make out your burden.
You have to prove that he intentionally caused the death of other people.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: OK, hold on. To Bethany Marshall. Dr. Marshall, what does this profile tell you, the profile that former agent Robert Caldwell just gave
us?
MARSHALL: Well, his profile is very consistent with psychopathy which is more severe than the sociopath.
With the psychopath, you have the addition of cruelty towards others especially family members. Psychopaths wear what we call the mask of
sanity, meaning they know how to behave in society as if they`re normal. So, they have this thin veneer of sociability that hides the cold,
calculated interior.
GRACE: Robert Anglen with "The Arizona Republic" investigative reporter, where does the FBI think this guy is now?
ANGLEN: Well, they`ve certainly had a lot of leads they pursued. The west, any western state is a possibility. They would say he has connections to
Florida and New Mexico but certainly, given his outdoorsman background and his time as a firefighter and a Navy veteran, he could survive anywhere.
GRACE: You know, Special Agent Robert Caldwell, former case agent on this story, on this case, where do you think he is? And what are his ties in
Florida and New Mexico?
CALDWELL: Well, the time of the homicide he had family members that were living in Florida and in New Mexico. But the family has been very
cooperative and now where he would be, you know, a desperate person on the run, if he has been -- he was out in the wilderness, like I said by now, he
has probably found a place, a community, somewhere he is comfortable with.
And where that is right now, we do not know. But we don`t believe he left the country. We checked all that. We`ve had numerous leads within the
country. It wouldn`t surprise me one bit that if he was still hiding in the state in the vast national forest that we have here.
GRACE: 1-800 CALL-FBI, a $100,000 reward. Catch this killer.
We honor American heroes, Anchorage Police Officer Mitchell Veenstra and local residents, rescued a driver from a deadly crash fire. The man
trapped, pinned under the car. As he doused up in flames, the group lift the vehicle so the driver could escape. Officer Mitchell Veenstra,
Anchorage resident`s, American heroes.
"Forensic Files" up next. Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us. Nancy Grace, signing off. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8
o`clock sharp, Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
[21:00:00]
END
