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Nancy Grace
Missing Washington Couple`s Bodies Found; Hunt for Missy Bevers` Killer; Mom Charged for Murder of 2-Year-Old Walks Free. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired May 25, 2016 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: Breaking news tonight. A gorgeous young Arlington couple vanish off the face of the earth, leaving no trace behind, their
SUVs found in a remote woodland. We obtain secret police files -- items of clothing soaked in blood and gasoline, a bag, rubber gloves, a tarp,
towels. The FBI tracked the killers on the run.
Bombshell tonight. As we go to air, we confirm the bodies of Monique and Patrick have been discovered.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Two yellow dots represent the properties of the victims and John Reed, still on the run. The yellow dot at the top of this
map is where the sheriff`s office said the SUVs and bodies were found.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Finding a needle in a haystack. It`s a large area.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: One of America`s most hated moms, tot mom Casey Anthony, charged in the murder of her 2-year-old tot girl, Caylee, then walks free in a
stunning not guilty verdict.
Breaking news right now. Bombshell in the tot mom Casey Anthony murder case, sworn testimony the tot mom defense attorney, Jose Baez, who shoots
to fame in the tot mom murder trial, directs the defense private investigator to go look for Caylee`s body in the swamp where Caylee`s
remains are ultimately found, that sworn testimony that defense attorney Baez says tot mom did murder her little girl and that tot mom is spotted,
quote, "running naked" through Baez`s office. Tonight, he denies it all.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s what this is, just more blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey has issues.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She saw George Anthony holding Caylee in his arms, and shortly thereafter, George began to yell at her, Look what you`ve done!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We the jury find the defendant not guilty.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. A gorgeous young Arlington couple vanish off the face of the earth, leaving no trace behind, their SUVs found in a remote
woodland. We obtain secret police files -- items of clothing soaked in blood and gasoline, a bag, rubber gloves, a tarp, towels. The FBI
tracking.
Tonight, as we go to air, we confirm the bodies of Monique and Patrick have been discovered. Monique Patenaude and Patrick Shunn`s bodies have been
discovered.
Straight out to Dillon Honcoop, host with KGMI News. Tell me, where are the bodies? Where were they found? And how do we know they are Monique`s
and Patrick`s?
DILLON HONCOOP, KGMI NEWS (via telephone): Right now, the bodies are with the Snohomish County medical examiner. They`re looking for a positive
identification that, indeed, this is Monique and Patrick. But they were found out in that wilderness near their home, near where their vehicles had
been spotted in the trees.
Remember when they found the vehicles at the bottom of a cliff, basically. Someone had pushed them over a cliff. They were damaged. They were filled
with blood and other evidence that something had gone on. It was in that area near where those vehicles were found that their bodies -- again, the
body of a man and a woman found buried in the dirt, in the woods in that area out in the wilderness, again, near their home.
GRACE: For those of you just joining us, we are confirming bodies found near the SUVs of Monique Patenaude and Patrick Shunn are Patrick and
Monique buried in shallow graves.
What I don`t understand, Dillon Honcoop, KGMI, is if the police were there and found the vehicles and the bodies are near the vehicles and they were
there with cadaver dogs and tracking dogs, why the bodies are just being found.
HONCOOP: How the cadaver dogs missed them, I have no idea. But keep in mind, Nancy, this area is huge. It`s a huge wilderness area, mostly off
road, off of the beaten path. And the bodies were only found -- and this is an important part -- only found because of information. So they have
searched the area. They`ve looked high and low and haven`t found...
GRACE: Actually, Dillon Honcoop, what we`re showing right now, it makes perfect sense. Take a look at this densely wooded mountainside, the SUVs
found crashed down the side of a ravine. I understand now, taking a look at it, why the bodies are just now being found.
[20:05:11]That leads me to my next point. Dillon, one of the brothers suspected in the murders has turned himself in. What can you tell me about
that, Dillon?
HONCOOP: Well, the suspect right away was John Reed. And then shortly thereafter, we heard that his brother, his younger brother, was probably
helping him. Those were the two guys that have been on the run. Those were the two guys that headed first to central Washington state, then down
to Arizona. And we know that they headed for Mexico.
This brother over the weekend, with an attorney friend of his, worked with police to turn himself in, and he didn`t fight being brought back to
Snohomish County. He`s now working with police. And from what we understand, it was a tip...
GRACE: OK, now let me understand...
HONCOOP: ... from him that led them to these bodies.
GRACE: So he turns himself in. Unleash the lawyers, Bernie Grimm joining me out of Washington, Kirby Clements out of Atlanta.
I smell a rat right now. So he turns himself in, Bernie. Does that mean he`s got a deal? Because this is two bodies. That`s grounds for the death
penalty. But if he turns himself in and is cooperating with police, does that mean he`s got a deal?
BERNIE GRIMM, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, I mean, you said "I smell a rat," and when you were saying it, you were looking directly at me.
So that`s not a good start for me.
But at any rate, yes, no, you raise a good point. Here`s the important point, and everyone knows this. If you are going to cut a deal, you better
make sure you`ve wrapped the prosecutor into this deal because the police can`t really promise you anything. They can tell you they can promise you
something, but that`s not enforceable.
So yes. Everybody thinks that blood is thicker than water. It`s not. This guy did the smart thing. He got to the courthouse first and he cut a
deal. And hopefully...
GRACE: Well, you know, another thing...
GRIMM: ... he`ll be able to avoid death.
GRACE: To Bernie and Kirby. He is saying he`s in fear of his life? OK, let me understand that. Meredyth Censullo, investigative reporter, so to
me, they`re both rats. You got two brothers, two rats, Tony Reed and John Reed. One turns himself in claiming he`s in fear of his life. For what?
That police are going to shoot him dead when they see him, or from his own brother?
MEREDYTH CENSULLO, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST (via telephone): I mean, it would sound to me like he`s afraid of his own brother. John is the one
that was having issues long before with the couple. He was a neighbor of the couple. He was having issues with them starting in 2013. Certainly,
if there`s a motive for anyone to be a suspect in this, it would be John. So whether or not Tony just got pulled into this whole ordeal or not...
GRACE: Wait, wait, wait, wait! Wait! Wait! Wait a minute! Hold your horses, Meredyth Censullo. Pulled into it? I mean, Dillon Honcoop, if my
brother says to me, Hey, let`s kill both of our neighbors and bury their bodies in a shallow grave, and then go on the run to Mexico, I`m not going
to take part in that.
You don`t get pulled into a double murder, a double murder that, I might add, was carefully planned.
Remember, Dillon Honcoop, we found a trunk of bloody clothes, gasoline- soaked clothes, a tarp. We found out that the couple -- can we see Monique and Patrick Shunn? We found out their phones were taken from the murder
scene back to their home around 3:00 AM. That had to be by the killers.
Nobody`s getting pulled into a double murder. You have to be a willing participant in that, Dillon.
HONCOOP: Well, and especially when you talk about these guys, you have to keep their history in mind. They have a rap sheet a mile long. And in
fact, his brother who`s now turned himself even had a worse rap sheet than John Reed, the guy who`s probably kind of the number one suspect at this
point. Tony`s sort of the number two.
But I think you`re exactly right. They both had to know what was going on. Tony Reed in the past had admitted to basically kidnapping a different
person, putting them in the trunk of his car and threatening them over a grave (ph) in the ground. It all sounds way too familiar. He`s no
stranger to this kind of behavior.
GRACE: Joining me, Dr. Lee Norman, chief medical officer at the University of Kansas Hospital. Dr. Norman, our sources telling us this is Monique
Patenaude and Patrick Shunn. So what`s the hold-up on a positive ID? I mean, that can be done. It`s done in battle. There are field tests that
are done immediately. They can be done by dental records. There`s a number of ways to make a positive ID.
And how will them being buried in a shallow grave for this amount of time deter authorities from discovering their true COD, cause of death?
DR. LEE NORMAN, UNIVERSITY OF KANSAS HOSPITAL: Yes, I would think that it would be straightforward in a rapid fashion to determine their identity.
Their bodies would be in terrible condition.
[20:10:00]They`d be in what we call advanced decay. That time of the year up in that part of the country, it`s moist, it`s warm underneath the
ground, and they`d be a very decayed body. But there`s positive identification through dental and other kinds of records.
GRACE: Remember this couple? Everyone knew something was horribly wrong when the animals on their farm had not been fed and were walking astray.
All the neighbors, all the relatives said this has never happened before.
Let`s go into that police presser.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s a remote area and it`s akin to finding a needle in a haystack. It`s a large area. So even though, obviously, they
searched the area around the vehicles several times, also searched the residences, as well, it was getting very specific information about where
those bodies would have been buried from Tony Reed that helped them locate it.
I just know that in talking about where the vehicles were, where other evidence that was found by detectives, he was able to point them into a
direction to where the bodies were buried.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: To Dillon Honcoop, KGMI host -- Dillon, do you believe that there is a plea deal in the works for immunity, so the one brother that`s turned
himself in can walk free or get a light sentence to rat out his brother?
HONCOOP: You would have to imagine, Nancy. None of that has been confirmed. The prosecutors, law enforcement, people working with Tony Reed
have not told us if there`s any specific deal. But for him to suddenly be cooperating, for him to turn himself in with the help of an attorney --
there`s talk -- and again, they aren`t telling us the specifics, but they talk about making arrangements for him to turn himself in.
You have to think some kind of deal was cut there, and it probably won`t come out until this all goes to court what exactly he gets for his now
cooperating with police. Blood thicker than water, not so much here, as was mentioned earlier. But maybe this John Reed is just off his rocker and
maybe Tony Reed was tired of dealing with it, whether they were in Oso, Washington, or on the run in Mexico.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:16:36]UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Snohomish County sheriff`s office never stopped searching the area where Patrick Shunn and Monique Patenaude`s
vehicles were dumped.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s a remote area.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Turns out they needed guidance from one of the accused killers.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was getting very specific information about where those bodies would have been buried from Tony Reed that helped them locate
it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is your true name Tony Clyde Reed? What`s your plea to two charges of first degree murder premeditated and one count of unlawful
possession of a firearm in the second degree?
TONY REED, SUSPECT: Not guilty.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: This beautiful young couple seemingly disappear off the face of the earth, Monique Patenaude and husband Patrick Shunn, who meet at a concert,
fall madly in love, marry and lead a Bohemian life there on a farm, raising their animals as if they are their children.
They suddenly disappear one day, no trace. Suspicion immediately goes to the neighbors, who have been arguing with them and squatting on their
property for some time. Their cars, their SUVs found pushed down a ravine. And now we learn one brother, Tony Clyde Reed, age 49, has not only turned
himself in but has already pled not guilty.
Is a secret deal in the works where he walks free with brother John Blaine Reed taking all the blame, the two on the run with the FBI tracking their
movements?
Straight back to Dillon Honcoop, KGMI host. Dillon, again, thank you for being with us. Let me understand -- the bodies were found not far from
where the SUVs were pushed down a steep ravine. Were they buried in shallow graves?
HONCOOP: Yes, they were in the ground. They had to dig them up, from our knowledge. And of course, we haven`t seen any pictures from that scene
yet, but we know that they had to dig the bodies up.
That`s where they were found. They were only found because this Tony Reed told them where they were. And they`re now, as we`ve talked about, in the
custody of the Snohomish county medical examiner`s office to try to make a positive identification.
But a man and a woman found near where their vehicles were pushed over the cliff -- it`s all pointing to the fact that they have found Patrick and
Monique here in this wooded spot.
GRACE: Well, and the reality is, if they`re waiting on a DNA test, they don`t need that. All they need are dental records from these two, which
has been used for many, many decades in identifying bodies.
Unleash the lawyers, Bernie Grimm out of D.C., Kirby Clements out of Atlanta, former prosecutor, now defense attorney. You know, Kirby
Clements, this guy, Tony Clyde Reed, who turns himself in, says he wants to, quote, "do the right thing."
Kirby, don`t you think the right thing would have been not to murder, not to commit a double murder, bury their bodies in graves and go on the run?
Wouldn`t that have been the right thing? I think he did the right thing for him, which was beat his brother and race to the courthouse to get a
deal, Kirby.
KIRBY CLEMENTS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you know, Nancy, I think what -- it really makes more sense to me that the brother who had the vendetta
killed these people, and then Tony was brought in to help cover it up. He`s an accessory after the fact.
GRACE: Put him up, please! What do...
CLEMENTS: Oh, yes, put me up!
GRACE: ... you mean "brought in"?
CLEMENTS: His brother brought him in...
[20:20:02]GRACE: Brought in?
CLEMENTS: Yes. Hey, look...
GRACE: What do you mean, "brought in"? You say he went all the way to Mexico or wherever they`ve been hiding out by gunpoint? No! He went along
with it!
CLEMENTS: No, not at gunpoint. Not at gunpoint. No, he went along after the fact. And I think that`s really the deal that he`s talking about. And
he came in and said, Look, I didn`t kill them...
GRACE: Then how did he know where the bodies were if he wasn`t there?
CLEMENTS: This is after the fact. No, not there -- not there at the murder, but...
GRACE: Oh, he just happened to show up?
CLEMENTS: ... the burying...
(CROSSTALK)
CLEMENTS: They`re brothers. They live together. My brother killed them.
GRACE: So could you show me your crystal ball? Could you please pull that out of your pocket?
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: I`m talking about common sense, Clements, because...
CLEMENTS: Well, so am I, Nancy! Common sense.
GRACE: ... he happens upon the scene of his brother with a shovel out in the middle of nowhere burying the bodies?
CLEMENTS: And that`s not murder. That`s my point. I`m glad you grasp what I was talking about, Nancy. Thank you so much.
GRACE: But it doesn`t make sense!
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... of the side of a mountain and finds his brother burying this couple?
CLEMENTS: No. His brother brought him in, I would suggest to you. And I think what makes more sense for him and why he would come forward to say,
My brother killed the people, he told me about it, I helped him to dispose of bodies. I helped dispose of the vehicle. But I was not the one that
pulled the trigger. I was not involved in that...
GRACE: I`m sure that is what he`s saying.
CLEMENTS: ... and I`ll tell you where the bodies are.
GRACE: I`m sure that is what he`s saying.
CLEMENTS: I think it is what he`s saying.
GRACE: OK, Bernie, Bernie Grimm, certainly, you`re not going along with that far-fetched cockamamie story that Kirby Clements just cooked up on
live TV!
GRIMM: Yes. I see where Kirby`s going. But Nancy, a great job to your producer with all this -- with this footage. For me, it`s too complicated
for one person to get away with.
In order for this to go down and happen, I think you have to have -- respectfully, I got to disagree with Kirby. You have to have two people
from the get-go. They`re both brothers. They were both having disputes with this couple over property and stupid things like that. But I think
you need two people from jump street.
And then -- and then Tony Reed said, Listen, we`re going to get caught. Whoever gets caught first is going to rat on the other. So I`m going back
home and I`m going to rat my brother out first.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:26:05]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Patrick and Monique were (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Detectives say the brothers kidnapped and murdered the couple, going back to their former property shortly after the crime.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tony Reed has not given police any information on the whereabouts of his brother, who court documents paint as the mastermind
behind this crime.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is your true name Tony Clyde Reed? What`s your plea to two charges of first degree murder premeditated and one count of unlawful
possession of a firearm in the second degree?
REED: Not guilty.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Well, he doesn`t look any worse for the wear. That is Tony Clyde Reed, age 49, a convicted felon who has been on the run with his convicted
felon brother, John Blaine (ph) Reed, after the alleged murder of a beautiful young couple that lived next to them.
You know, I`m a little stunned that it`s all gone so under the radar. But we find out that right now, the bodies of this couple are still sitting at
the morgue, waiting for a positive ID. Our sources telling us that is Monique Patenaude and Patrick Shunn.
Back to how they went missing. Meredyth Censullo, how did we realize at the beginning something was horribly wrong?
CENSULLO: Both Patrick and Monique were last seen on April 11th both on their property and at work. But by April 12th, their neighbors realized
something was wrong because as you mentioned, they have farm animals. They care for them. And neighbors noticed something was wrong, that they
weren`t taking care of their property. So that`s when they initially reported that Patrick and Monique were missing.
Two days later, their vehicles, both of their cars, both SUVs, were located in a remote wooded area about 50 miles or so away from their home.
Detectives then searched the vehicles and the area where they were located a day later. And then it was a couple days after that that they actually
established probable cause that something had gone on and that the Reed brothers had something to do with it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is your true name Tony Clyde Reed? What`s your plea to two charges of first degree murder premeditated and one count of unlawful
possession of a firearm in the second degree?
REED: Not guilty.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s not a very normal-minded person.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Got dressed into a uniform.
KEVIN JOHNSON, MIDLOTHIAN POLICE DEPARTMENT ASSISTANT CHIEF OF POLICE: She was inside the church not realizing the intruder was already inside.
She was murdered inside of the church.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If I knew who the killer was ...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The person has a very distinct walk.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`d arrest them myself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Tot mom, Casey Anthony, back in the news. Tot mom charged in the murder of her 2-year-old little girl, Caylee, walks free in a stunning not
guilty verdict.
Breaking news right now, a bombshell in the Tot mom Casey Anthony murder case. That bombshell, sworn testimony, emerging tonight, that tot mom
defense attorney, Jose Baez shoots to fame in the tot mom murder trial actually directs the defense, private investigator, to go look for Caylee`s
body in the swamp where Caylee`s remains are ultimately found.
Before police find the body there, sworn testimony that Baez directs the P.I. to go find that body. Also, a sworn testimony, Baez says tot mom did
murder her little girl and sworn testimony that tot mom spotted, "running naked" through Baez`s office? Well, tonight, Baez denies it all.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Surprise, surprise.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not guilty, not guilty.
JOSE BAEZ, TOT MOM CASEY ANTHONY`S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I saved a life ... saved a life ... saved a life.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think Caylee is OK right now?
CASEY ANTHONY, CHARGED WITH MURDER OF HER 2-YEAR-OLD LITTLE GIRL, CAYLEE: I feel like she is -- she`s close to home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Well, I wonder how that Florida jury is feeling tonight if these allegations, in sworn statements, are true.
To Robyn Walensky, senior news anchor with "TheBlaze", author of "Beautiful Life" and covered the Anthony trial.
Robin, what was said in this sworn testimony? It`s the testimony of the defense attorney`s private investigator. This is a member of the tot mom
defense team who is saying all this.
ROBYN WALENSKY, "THEBLAZE" RADIO NETWORK SENIOR NEWS ANCHOR: It`s absolutely fascinating. Basically, he is saying that Jose Baez knew from
the get go, from the very beginning, that Casey killed Caylee and buried the body in that swamp. He knew that that body was there. How else ...
(CROSSTALK)
[20:35:00] GRACE: OK.
WALENSKY: Why else would he tell -- why else would he tell Dominic Casey to go look there? He knew.
GRACE: You are seeing video from "Splash News" reportedly of tot mom this morning in West Palm Beach with a brand-new car, going into her home.
To Steve Helling, staff writer with "People Magazine" and author of "Outrage: The Casey Anthony Story," so this guy, the private investigator,
Dominic Casey, was called as a witness in the bankruptcy proceeding and his privilege -- client-attorney privilege was all waived by Jose Baez. And all
of this is just pouring out, Steve Helling.
STEVE HELLING, "PEOPLE MAGAZINE" STAFF WRITER: Yeah, it certainly is a bombshell the way that Dominic Casey writes in his affidavit. Whether or
not it is true or not is something that, of course, Jose Baez says is not. He and Dominic Casey have had a parting of the ways. So, you know ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: I guess so.
HELLING: ... right now, we just have these out -- what`s that, Nancy?
GRACE: I guess so. I mean, he is basically saying, this is Jose Baez`s private investigator is alleging alleged that Jose Baez directed him to go
find the body in the swamp where the body actually was before police found it. That`s damning if it`s true. Now, this was done under oath.
(CROSSTALK)
HELLING: But here is a question, Nancy.
GRACE: Yeah, what?
HELLING: I mean, the question is, if that was directed, then why didn`t they find the body? I`m not quite sure. That doesn`t make sense to me.
GRACE: OK, Liz, do we have a picture of the swamp where Caylee`s little body was found? It is swampy. It is very dense with vegetation.
And the body, as I recall, was in trash bags like little Caylee was just trash. And, also, if Dominic Casey did go look for the body, I don`t know
that he did go look for the body.
I know that he says he was directed to by Jose Baez. I mean, I don`t think he went out there with a cadaver dog. So, there you go. That is a part of
the scene, if you look past that tent, back in all of that vegetation. So, I don`t know that he would have found the body in all of that.
To Mark Lippman, joining me, a special guest who is the attorney for George and Cindy Anthony, who basically lived through H-E-L-L, Cindy even taking
the stand to try to take the blame on some computer searches to save her own daughter. Mark Lippman, thank you for being with us.
My question to you, in these -- oh, yeah, these were the photos taken of tot mom, Casey Anthony while her daughter, her 2-year-old daughter, was
missing. I guess there she is looking for her daughter in Fusion Lounge.
Mark, in the sworn statements of the defense private investigator, Dominic Casey, he also says that tot mom directed everyone to blame, try to find a
way to put the blame on your clients, George and Cindy Anthony.
MARK LIPPMAN, ATTORNEY FOR GEORGE AND CINDY LIPPMAN: Well, it`s interesting. And first, thank you for having me back. But it`s interesting
that Dominic is making those allegations.
I`m not a huge fan, obviously, of Jose Baez, but at the time that all this is being said, I don`t think Casey had the ability, and she is a bright
girl, but I don`t think she has the ability to understand how to create a legal defense.
So, I don`t think it would have been coming from her directing anybody, and I think that Dominic Casey has an axe to grind with Jose. And like I said,
I`m not a huge fan of Jose, but I`m not certainly thinking that Dominic Casey has any sort of credence here.
GRACE: Can I ask you something, Mark Lippman? We saw this come to fruition. We saw allegations made at trial that maybe Cindy Anthony left the pool
gate open. Claims that George Anthony molested Casey Anthony. That, I don`t believe that for one minute that George did that.
LIPPMAN: No. that didn`t ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: We saw the blame shifting on the parents, just like Dominic Casey is saying.
[20:40:00] LIPPMAN: What you saw was Jose making these horrific claims against my client and then there was no proof ever provided. And it was
protected by the court because we were in trial and that`s why nobody could (inaudible) thing by ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Let`s take a look, Mark Lippman, at exactly what was said. Let`s clarify any confusion.
"Saturday July 26, 2008, Baez had told me that Casey had murdered Caylee and dumped the body somewhere and, he needed all the help he could get to
find the body before anyone else did."
"He had also suggested to me that if I could gain access to the swamp on Suburban Drive without being seen, to do so because it could be the place
Casey had dumped Caylee`s body."
"During the publicity involved in the missing child case, Casey Anthony became aware of the telephone calls made to police by Roy Kronk in August
of 2008 indicating he may have located the remains of Caylee Anthony. She (Casey Anthony) told me at that time `Caylee is not coming home, they need
to get used to that.`"
"Casey suggested we could say Cindy left the ladder up against the pool."
"I told her vehemently then, I would not do that because we both knew that Cindy and Roy Kronk had nothing to do with Caylee`s disappearance. She was
insistent that George, Cindy, Lee Anthony and the meter reader be implicated and blamed for the murder of Caylee."
"Based on my personal knowledge of the events and statements I personally heard from Casey Anthony authorize and permit her attorneys including, Jose
Baez, to make false statements about George, Cindy, Lee Anthony, Roy Kronk and portray them as being responsible for the murder of Caylee Marie
Anthony."
Robin Walensky, where do these quotes come from?
WALENSKY: They come from an affidavit that was taken in Tampa. This all has to do with the bankruptcy case involving Casey Anthony.
GRACE: Yeah. To break it down, Matt Zarrell, what happened is, they basically blame Roy Kronk in various interviews for the murder of Caylee.
They implicate him. They implicate him. I guess that`d be a better way to put it, according to Roy Kronk.
So, he files a lawsuit against tot mom and the whole kit and caboodle and then she goes to bankruptcy, and he files a motion saying I don`t want my
debt relieved, I want to pursue it. What else do we know, Matt Zarrell?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Yes, so what happened was that as he files this document, the defense is trying to get the case dismissed, and
Roy Kronk says, whoa! The case shouldn`t be dismissed and here`s why, and he shows exhibits from the P.I. that should back up the claim that Anthony
wanted to implicate him in ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Right.
ZARRELL: ... Caylee`s murder. So as a result, the defense says that his information is insufficient, it`s irrelevant ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Yeah.
ZARRELL: ... and it`s private. It`s confidential, but Jose Baez has document that shows he waived privilege as part of this case.
GRACE: Take a listen to tot mom.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: Can someone let me -- come on.
CINDY CASEY, CASEY ANTHONY`S MOTHER: Casey, hold on, sweetheart. Settle down ...
(CROSSTALK)
CASEY ANTHONY: Nobody is letting me speak. You want me to talk then ...
CINDY CASEY: All right, then I`ll ...
CASEY ANTHONY: Give me three seconds to say something.
(CROSSTALK)
CINDY CASEY: No, sweetheart.
[20:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BAEZ: That`s what this is, just more blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey has issues.
BAEZ: She saw George Anthony holding Caylee in his arms and shortly thereafter, George began to yell at her, `look what you have done!`
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We, the jury, find the defendant not guilty.
CINDY ANTHONY: OK. There anything there?
CASEY ANTHONY: Mom, she`s -- I`m sorry. I love you guys, I miss you.
CINDY CASEY: Sweetheart, you`re (inaudible) ...
CASEY ANTHONY: No. I`m going to -- I want to just walk away right now because ...
(CROSSTALK)
CINDY CASEY: Please, don`t.
CASEY ANTHONY: I`m frustrated and I`m angry and I don`t want to be angry. This is the first time I have truly, truly been angry this entire time. But
I`m so beyond frustrated with all of this that I can`t even swallow right now, it hurts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I wonder how the jury feels tonight now that these revelations have come to light according to the tot mom defense team private investigator.
Jose Baez knew where Caylee`s body was before police found it. That he was directed by the defense to try and pin the blame to implicate George and
Cindy, tot mom`s parents, even drag Lee, the brother, into it. Try to implicate the meter reader that found the body. And we saw echoes of that
actually take place during the trial.
Also tonight, Jose Baez vehemently denying all of this. Every bit of it.
To Robyn Walensky, senior news anchor with "TheBlaze" Network, author of "Beautiful Life" and covered Anthony trial, what do you make of the
revelations, Robyn?
WALENSKY: I think that the revelations are stunning, if it`s true that Casey either admitted to Jose that this was the truth or Jose got it out of
her some way. I mean, to me, I was stunned when I heard this today. Absolutely stunned.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Let`s take a look at exactly, precisely what was done. Let`s not paraphrase it. Let`s look at it.
"During a meeting at the hotel that evening, Jose Baez comes to meet George and Cindy Anthony. She asked him what was found. Attorney Baez said, `let`s
go to the room to talk, Roy Kronk is very, very suspicious."
"Prior to the Grand Jury indictment on October 14, 2008, Casey thanked me for providing `what Jose needed.` She explained about not being aware of
details other than, George would be implicated. Her father. After all, he was the only one in the family who would be testifying against her at the
Grand Jury hearing."
OK. Mark Lippman with me, the attorney for George and Cindy. Mark, thank you for being with us. We see these claims coming to fruition during the
trial. We see trying to drag George and Cindy into it, trying to blame them, trying to blame the meter reader. So, why are you convinced the P.I.
is not telling the truth?
[20:50:00] LIPPMAN: Well Nancy, there`s a lot of issues, first of all -- we`ll never know. Unfortunately, we`ll never know ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: That`s true. What about it, Steve Helling?
HELLING: We`ve had five years now since the acquittal. And there`s always these things coming up. Whether or not it is true, we don`t know and nobody
is going to know. But what I will say is that we do know that Dominic Casey has not had the best track record of being accurate with the things that he
said.
GRACE: Why do you say that?
HELLING: So ...
GRACE: Why do you say that?
HELLING: Well, you know, we -- I`ve had dealings with him where he sent me on wild goose chases, on stories that ended up not being true. Way back in
the day.
GRACE: You know, to Robyn Walensky, let`s take a look at this set of -- the exact quotes.
"Within two weeks, the misconduct between Casey and Jose Baez had escalated. I arrived at Baez`s office unexpectedly one day and once again,
witnessed a naked Casey. This time she ran from his private office, through the conference hall -- to the hallway. That night, I told her she cannot
allow him to continue engaging in this behavior. Casey told me she had to do what Jose said because she had no money for her defense. I reminded her
that Baez had more than enough money from the network he sold the photographs to pay for her defense. Casey apologized and assured me it
would not happen again."
OK, Mark Lippman, attorney for George and Cindy, what do you make of that?
LIPPMAN: Again, Dominic Casey is making these wonderful claims against Jose Baez, and it is very easy to say these things. Jose, of course, needs to
deny any of this happened because he would lose his bar license if it`s true. So, you have two parties that are going to argue over it and the one
person that could say something and will never say anything is Casey. So ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Well, we`ve got a statement from Jose Baez which in part reads, "I unequivocally, categorically deny exchanging sex for legal services with
Ms. Anthony. Unequivocally, categorically deny any sexual relationship with Ms. Anthony, whatsoever."
[20:55:00] (CROSSTALK)
GRACE: We all remember this video emerging during the tot mom, Casey Anthony, murder trial. Her daughter found dead just 10 blocks away from the
Anthony home.
There she is buying beer and push-up bras at the local Target while searching for her, "lost daughter."
That jury returning a stunning not guilty verdict. And whether you like Jose Baez or not, tonight, claims coming out in sworn affidavits by his own
private investigator alluding that he knew where Caylee`s body was and sent the P.I. to find it before police did.
I want to report Jose Baez absolutely denies this. I am wondering if he is going to make a perjury charge against the P.I. Joining me right now, a
neuropsychologist, Sanam Hafeez.
Dr. Hafeez, thank you for being with us. I don`t understand the psychopathy of wanting to blame your mother and father for the death of your child.
Just basically, hey, blame anybody but me. I don`t care if they go to jail for life just as long as it is not me. What is that?
DR. SANAM HAFEEZ, NEUROPSYCHOLOGIST: You know, if you follow the trial and you watch this woman, a psychopathic deviance or someone who is a sociopath
will pretty much do anything it takes to protect their own skin. Anyone, you know, who possibly I know she was, you know, not guilty at least by the
verdict, but anyone who can possibly murder their child and can go out partying the way she did or buy beer or push-up bras is really capable of
anything.
And if that meant, you know, look the other way so I can, you know, get off the hook, that`s something she is totally capable of. And yes, I mean, it
is shocking.
Let`s remember American hero, Massachusetts Police Officer Ronald Tarentino, Jr., killed in the line of duty. Auburn and Leicester Police.
From a family of cops. Loved archery, fishing. Parents, Ronald, Sr. and Sharon; three sisters; widow, Tricia; three sons. Ronald Tarantino, Jr.,
American hero.
And here`s a shot of Lucy, John David and I supporting #Rockonesock for National Missing Children`s Day. A movement to bring missing children home.
Share a poster of a missing child in your state at missingkids.com. Take a footsie and post it with a hashtag, #Rockonesock. And for all of you who
saw me through my pregnancy with the twins, catch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(JOHN DAVID AND LUCY PLAYING PIANO)
This is John David at his piano recital and -- I`m so proud. There`s Lucy. Can I just tell you, they totally tore up the keyboard! I just wanted you
to see that. And they`re about to turn 9.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
Everybody, thank you for being with us into your homes. I`m Nancy Grace, signing off for tonight. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8 o`clock sharp,
Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
[21:00:00]
END
