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Nancy Grace
Nine-year-old Missing From Home; Search for Missy Bevers` Killer; 18-Month-Old Baby Gril Suffocates in Car; Gorilla Shot by Zookeepers After Toddler Falls into Exhibit. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired May 31, 2016 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAT LALAMA, GUEST HOST: Breaking news tonight. A 9-year-old Florida girl goes missing from her own home. When her mother and father go to wake her
up for church, they discover little Diana is gone. Tonight, the desperate search.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Missing girl, 9-year-old Diana Alvares, crime scene tape marking the area where she was last seen around 7:00 that morning to
wake her up for Sunday service.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t see her in the bed. I don`t see her blanket, either.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: The tragic death of a beautiful 18-month-old baby girl who suffocates in the back seat while her baby-sitter drives around town
running errands. In a shocking twist, the baby-sitter walks free from jail.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Eric Atkins (ph) dropped his 18-month-old daughter, Anna Lee Rose (ph), off with day care worker Jennifer Pomeroy (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My child died in the back seat of a car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Authorities say Jennifer Pomeroy placed Anna Lee Rose Atkins on the wet and trash-littered floorboard of her car, covered her
with a blanket and left her there to suffocate while she drove around with five other children in the car.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: Chilling video shows a toddler boy after he falls into a gorilla exhibit at the Cincinnati Zoo. Stunned onlookers scream as Harambe drags
that little boy around, the rare gorilla shot dead by zoo keepers, controversy swirling as a full-scale investigation could end in charges.
Good evening. I`m Pat Lalama from "Crime Watch Daily," in for Nancy Grace. Thank you for being with us.
We begin tonight with the frantic search for a 9-year-old Florida girl. Diana vanishes from home. Let`s go straight to Corey Lazar, reporter for
CNN affiliate WINK-TV. Corey, take us from the beginning. What happened?
COREY LAZAR, WINK-TV CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Pat. So the family tells us this all happened Sunday morning. They last saw Diana 2:00 AM in her bed
sleeping when her mom got up just to check on the kids. And then she says they wanted to get up and get ready for church. That was around 7:00 AM.
So the mom goes into the bedroom. She says Diana was not there. Diana and her blanket were gone.
Now, we asked the family if they believe Diana walked out of the house or if someone took her, and her stepfather says to me he believes someone came
into their home and took this 9-year-old girl.
LALAMA: Bob Alexander, news director, 92.5 Fox News. Set the scene for me. What geographically are we looking at here?
BOB ALEXANDER, 92.5 FOX NEWS (via telephone) Well, Pat, we`re looking at an area that is surrounded by some woods. There`s some marshland. There
were also some sheriff`s deputies divers that were searching a pond not too far from the trailer park area where she was last seen. There were no tips
as far as that pond. They were doing a routine search. And so far, nothing has been recovered from that pond.
LALAMA: And back to Corey Lazar. This young girl, 9 years old, very responsible, from what we`re hearing, by all accounts, correct?
LAZAR: Yes, that`s right. We talked to many neighbors. They say this girl had great manners. She was always supervised by adults if she was
playing outside. And they don`t believe this girl would have left her yard and wandered off on her own.
LALAMA: And back to Bob Alexander. We`re talking about, if we`re listening to the mother say that the last she noticed her child was at 2:00
AM, and then they notice she`s gone at 7:00. That`s a five-hour window in the middle of the night. They`re saying there`s no signs of any kind of a
break-in. We`re talking about a very enclosed area with lots of people close by. Wouldn`t somebody have seen or heard something?
ALEXANDER: Well, you would certainly think so. And even Diana`s stepfather, Juribe Jimenez (ph), says he found it odd that he didn`t hear
her that morning. He says the kids usually wake up before he does, especially on Sunday, when they`re getting ready for church. He found it
very, very strange that he didn`t hear any kind of noise, any kind of breaking in, any kind of kids, nothing, very quiet.
LALAMA: Well, on that note, let`s hear from the stepfather. I think we have some sound.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was still there around 2:00, 2:30. She was still there. I go straight to her room first to call her to get ready to go to
church. I don`t see her in the bed. I don`t see her blanket, neither. I don`t see any window broke. I don`t see like somebody tried to open the
door. I don`t see anything, nothing about (ph) that.
We just want to find my daughter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:05:00]LALAMA: Marc Klaas from Klaas Kids Foundation, an advocate for children all the way -- one thing I`d like for you to explain to our guests
-- people ask, Why not an Amber Alert? But apparently, there`s a darn good reason why.
MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: Well, Pat, there is a good reason why, and it`s one that I`ve never really appreciated because my own daughter
would not have qualified for an Amber Alert.
The problem is that you have to have -- you have to have a suspect. You have to know that somebody kidnapped the child. So there need to be
witnesses. And there has to be vehicle information, as well, either the make and the model of the car or a license plate on the car.
And of course, everybody knows that predatory abductors, stranger abductors are not going to be sharing that information with anybody. They are
existing in the shadows.
LALAMA: Chloe Carmichael, clinical psychologist, give us a sense -- the mother`s pregnant. There are other children in the home. What horror must
she be going through?
CHLOE CARMICHAEL, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, of course, it`s a terrifying situation in a situation like this, when your daughter goes missing and you
have no idea how this could have happened.
When we think about situations like this, we can think about coping strategies. The only types of coping strategies that she could possibly
really use would be to stay, number one, proactive, if there`s anything that she can do, so she doesn`t just slide into a feeling of helplessness.
Also in times like this, if the family is religious, turning to your faith has been shown in psychology to be a protective factor when situations
become unbearable, as I`m sure this situation is.
LALAMA: Corey Lazar, WINK-TV, what do we know about possible or in reality any predators who may live in that area?
LAZAR: Well, we do know that one sexual predator lives in that area. We believe that he was questioned by authorities. But law enforcement is
really not telling us much at this point, specific details into their investigation, who they`re interviewing. But we do know her stepfather was
questioned. He told us he took a lie detector test. They impounded some of their cars, and since then, those cars have been returned back to the
home. And the father did not tell us if he passed or failed that lie detector test.
LALAMA: Bob Alexander, apparently, the father has expressed some disdain for the fact that the family had to be outside the home while they cordoned
off the area. But isn`t that just due diligence on the part of law enforcement?
ALEXANDER: It`s due diligence on the part of law enforcement. And I also think it`s the frustration, and you know, the worry that`s coming through
on the part of the stepfather. You know, he was also upset, saying that he thought the Lee County sheriff`s office wasn`t doing enough to -- because
they didn`t issue an Amber Alert. But as we just heard the expert say a few moments ago, there has to be specific criteria for an Amber Alert to be
issued.
But it`s pretty obvious by the fact that they`ve set up a mobile station just blocks from the home, several law enforcement agencies, FBI, Florida
Department of Law Enforcement and Homeland Security are all part of the search, looking as far across the state as they can to track this little
girl down.
LALAMA: Corey, why the FBI?
LAZAR: Well, at this point, we`re not sure why the FBI`s involved. We asked them what they`re doing in this investigation. They say, right now,
they`re just aiding the Lee County sheriff`s office with different teams and equipment.
But we just got an update. And the Lee County sheriff`s office actually tells us 200 search crews are out right now. The search is going to go on
into the evening. And they`re -- right now, they`re going to be focusing on a 10-mile radius of where this little girl was last seen.
And this can be a nightmare for these search crews because you have that heavily wooded area, a major roadway right by the mobile home park and you
have many canals and streams near the mobile home park that divers were searching in.
LALAMA: Marc Klaas, back to you. Apparently, this is close by a Walgreen`s. There`s a highway. There are creek beds. How difficult could
this possibly be?
KLAAS: Oh, it`s going to be very difficult. I mean, everything that you`ve heard thus far points out to an extremely -- an extremely
problematic kind of an investigation.
But let me tell you quickly why the FBI is there. The FBI is there because they have more experience in kidnapping situations than any other agency on
the face of the earth. They also have -- they also have resources that are unavailable to any other agency. So when these situations happen, it`s
incumbent upon other agencies, the jurisdictional agency, to contact the FBI and let them come in and do their work and help out in the
investigation.
LALAMA: Harry Oakes, Jr., SAR coordinator, owner of International K-9 Search and Rescue Services -- no one would know more about searching than
you. What kind of a problem is this? As time goes by, it gets tougher and tougher.
HARRY OAKES, JR., SEARCH AND RESCUE COORDINATOR (via telephone): Well, the first thing is, whoever the coordinator is on scene should have done is,
when the first deputy responded or the first city officer responded, should have called in the detective regarding missing persons and treated it as a
crime scene.
[20:10:12]Next, they should have brought in a search dog, before they brought in (INAUDIBLE) before they brought in divers to first determine
whether or not the girl left on her own or if she was actually kidnapped.
If the track goes to where a car was parked, then it`s an investigation. If the track goes to another mobile home, maybe that`s empty in the area,
maybe she has a fort (ph) in the area like the other kids do and they should check that out. But if the track goes into a water source, that`s
when you bring your divers in, not before.
And if the track goes into the woods, then you bring your ground teams in, (INAUDIBLE) helicopters (INAUDIBLE) your search dogs and your ground teams.
The problem is, you`ve got deers (ph). You`ve got snakes, a lot of poisonous different type of snakes, rattlesnakes, moccasins, copperheads,
and not -- you know, not including all the other critters in there.
And so it is a difficult and it`s a challenging search. Then you`ve got the heat on top of that. So it`s going to be a challenging search for the
searchers.
LALAMA: Justin Freiman, NANCY GRACE producer, what about the potential for surveillance tapes?
JUSTIN FREIMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, this park here where she lives is actually right off of a main road, highway 41. We`ve got traffic
signals that do have cameras over there. There`s also a very large Publix grocery store. There`s a Walgreen`s right outside of this development,
also with cameras. So there`s a lot of cameras.
But the problem is this is a major road that has lots of cars and people on it at all hours. So it`s going to be hard to pick out something that is
out of place.
LALAMA: Well, but they`re certainly looking as best they can, I`m sure.
The search for a California girl kidnapped on her way to the school bus stop in Vallejo, her alleged kidnapper gunned down in a firefight with
police, but still no sign of 15-year-old Pearl Pinson. Witnesses report seeing that girl being dragged across an overpass by an armed man, blood
and Pinson`s cell phone reportedly found at the scene. If you have any info, call Solano County sheriff`s office, 707-784-1963.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:16:08]UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Lee County deputies and FWC officers on the ground and in the air using K-9s and ATVs to search. A bloodhound sniffed
the entire property.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... to help try to find this little girl and bring her home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Crews have been searching relentlessly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: I`m Pat Lalama, in for Nancy Grace. I want to go back to Bob Alexander, 92.5 Fox News. One teeny, tiny clue, flimsy at that, is a note
that she brought home from school one day. Can you tell us about that?
ALEXANDER: Pat, I don`t really have any information about a note. That`s something that hasn`t been handed over to my end of the line. So I really
don`t have much I can give you on that. I`m sorry.
LALAMA: No worries at all. Justin Freiman, NANCY GRACE producer, she came home with an invitation, apparently.
FREIMAN: That`s right, supposedly from a classmate to come over. The thing was, there was no address, there was no phone number, so her parents
didn`t let her, and she reportedly then tore up the letter in anger.
LALAMA: Corey Lazar, do you have any idea who sent that note or who might have wanted her to come over but with no information? That seems really
strange to me.
LAZAR: Yes, it does. We haven`t heard that on our end, as well, so I don`t have any information on that note. But I can tell you this little
girl was very social. Down her street -- she had a lot of friends down the street and she had a lot of friends in school.
LALAMA: So I want to go to the lawyers just quickly on this, Parag Shah, defense attorney, author of "The Code," and David Bruno, defense attorney.
David, starting with you. The father is upset. He didn`t like the feeling of being put outside, you know, kept from going inside his house.
And let`s just make this clear. He is not a suspect in any way. But I`m just curious. You know, he`s upset about all of that. He says the
sheriff`s not doing enough. Any thoughts about that?
DAVID BRUNO, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It`s all normal and to be expected. When law enforcement gets involved, it`s not only a search for the missing
person, but it`s also to secure evidence in the event of a prosecution. And the first place that they have to look is the home. They have to
secure the home. They have to get search warrants or a consent and abide by the Constitution. But that`s first and to be expected.
The other thing is it sounds like he`s being cooperative, which is a good sign, but certainly will not clear him or any of the family members. Law
enforcement...
LALAMA: Well, he claims he took -- he claims he took a polygraph. I have not seen any confirmation of that. Any thoughts about just blurting that
out to the media, I took a polygraph? And he also said, you know, why -- if I were involved, why would I have called the cops? I would have gone to
a country where I couldn`t be found, or something to that effect. Again, means nothing. I`m just giving you everything that we`re hearing from him.
BRUNO: Right. And it doesn`t exonerate him. I mean, the investigation will be what it is. They need to find the evidence. They need to find the
girl. Who knows where this body may be? Hopefully, she`s going to be found alive. But a crime scene is somewhere, if a crime has been
committed. If it`s not in the home, it`s going to be somewhere else.
(CROSSTALK)
LALAMA: Parag Shah...
(CROSSTALK)
PARAG SHAH, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I disagree. It does exonerate him. I mean, he took a polygraph...
LALAMA: Why?
SHAH: He passe -- he passed a polygraph. He`s not a suspect.
BRUNO: How do you know he passed?
SHAH: And you know, I would be offended, too, being a suspect to my own daughter, kidnap her? You`re bringing all this attention to me. I`d be
pissed off, too.
LALAMA: Wait, wait, wait, wait! You wouldn`t want the cops to cordon off the place...
SHAH: No, I`m not saying that.
LALAMA: ... so they can make sure they can find any possible clue?
SHAH: That`s not what I`m saying. What I`m saying is, Stop treating me like a suspect. I`m not a suspect. I`m trying to do everything I can.
I`m cooperating with you. I`m trying to do everything. But I need you to do your job. I need you to find my daughter and stop treating me like a
suspect. So you know, that`s the way I`m looking at it.
(CROSSTALK)
LALAMA: You know who`s lived through this is Marc Klaas. Marc, what do you say? How did you feel when you were going through that kind of a
thing?
[20:00:04]KLAAS: Well, I felt terrible. But it was explained to me early on that I had to eliminate myself from suspicion, that other family members
had to be eliminated from suspicion, that people who knew her had to be eliminated, that all of the various scenarios had to play out, and those
individuals had to be eliminated before law enforcement would be able to move forward with the right kind of a scenario.
So I completely understand where the authorities are coming from. They can probably explain it to him a little bit better, but they`re doing what they
need to do to move this investigation forward.
LALAMA: Chloe Carmichael, we can understand -- you know, at this point, there`s no one named as a suspect. We have no idea. She`s a missing young
lady at this point. But you can understand being looked at under the glare of law enforcement`s spotlight.
CARMICHAEL: Well, of course. And actually, I would think that the father would welcome this attention. Absolutely. The protective instinct of the
father should actually want to aid law enforcement and support them as they do their job.
And of course, the most logical thing in the world for them to do would be to clear him. And if he`s not allowing them to clear him by supporting the
investigation, then he`s actually impeding the investigation. And I hope he understands that.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:25:24]UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A missing girl neighbors say was always out and about.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It just doesn`t make sense.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She never goes more than four or five houses. She`s afraid to go in the woods.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jimenez says some of the lights were on in the house, but he says he didn`t see any signs of a break-in.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We just want to find my daughter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: Bob Alexander, 92.5 Fox News, here`s what I`m thinking. You`ve got a small -- I believe it was a mobile home. The walls are thin.
Neighbors are close by. And 9-year-old Diana apparently shares a bedroom with siblings. How does someone not notice something?
ALEXANDER: Yes, that`s what seems to be the biggest mystery of all. You`ve got all those kids together in a small area. If there`s a five-hour
window where nobody saw anything, nobody heard anything -- how does a 9- year-old disappear, vanish without the kids knowing, without parents hearing anything?
And the family swears that this is a little girl that would not get up and leave for any reason at all, no indication she could possibly be a runaway.
So it just puts such a puzzling picture out there.
LALAMA: Corey Lazar, back to you, WINK-TV. What do we know about this 9- year-old and any potential use of social media? Was she active on social media? Did she have friends? Was she communicating with anybody that she
shouldn`t have been communicating with?
LAZAR: Well, Pat, her family tells us that she really wasn`t active on social media. She really didn`t have any social media accounts. She
didn`t have any technology on her. She didn`t have a cell phone or something like that that they could track, you know, her location down on.
But there was one interesting fact that her parents told us, that when they woke up and found that she was missing at 7:00 AM on Sunday, the stove was
on. And that was very interesting. They don`t know why the stove was on. They claim they didn`t turn it on. So that was an interesting fact the
family told us yesterday.
LALAMA: Wow, that is very interesting. So Justin Freiman, NANCY GRACE producer, is this young girl -- is she possibly known as troubled? Could
she have been a runaway?
FREIMAN: No, she`s not known as troubled at all, and she actually seemed to like to do artwork. She was actually using her mom`s phone from time to
time just to do Google searches on things like ponies, so then she could draw them.
LALAMA: So Marc Klaas, what I`m thinking -- you know, if it was somebody in the middle of the night coming to abduct her, could it have been someone
close by that she knew and trusted, and maybe they told her -- I`ve been looking for anything. How can this 9-year-old girl suddenly vanish in a
five-hour period like that?
KLAAS: Well, I think you just hit the nail on the head, Pat. I believe that it was possibly a neighbor. I mean, this girl, although she wasn`t on
social media, she was social. And the people knew her in the trailer park. Somebody had her trust, enough of her trust so that they could come in and
lure her out of that apartment without her making any kind of noise.
I think that probably is a scenario that fits better than any other. I doubt very much that this was any kind of a stranger abduction.
LALAMA: Wow. Chloe Carmichael, a 9-year-old, what`s the mindset? If someone you recognize comes in and says, Come with me, I need you to help
me with something, are you inclined to go?
CARMICHAEL: Well, Pat, I think that would depend a lot upon what the parents had told her, but I would find it very difficult to believe that a
9-year-old wouldn`t realize that there would be something really wrong with a stranger coming up and asking her to go away.
It sounds again like this little girl has a history of actually being very responsible and of, in fact, looking out after the younger kids on the
block. She doesn`t have a history of threatening to run away. She doesn`t sound like she`s dramatic, or any of the other types of behaviors that
would lead you to think she`s probably just camping out in the woods somewhere.
So this definitely seems like a great violation in the pattern of behavior, and that is concerning.
[20:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... not a very normal-minded person.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Got dressed into a uniform.
KEVIN JOHNSON, MIDLOTHIAN POLICE DEPARTMENT ASSISTANT CHIEF OF POLICE: She was inside the church not realizing the intruder was already inside.
She was murdered inside of the church.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If I knew who the killer was ...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The person has a very distinct walk.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`d arrest them myself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: I`m Pat LaLama from Crime Watch Daily, in for Nancy Grace.
A beautiful 18-month-old baby girl suffocates in the back seat of her babysitter`s car. We learn the sitter leaves the girl covered with a
blanket as she`s driving around town running errands. And then a shocking twist in the case. The babysitter walks free from jail.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
A daycare worker convicted in the death of an 18-month-old baby she left to suffocate on the floor of her car is out of jail after serving less than
four years.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to know why. Does five years not mean five years? Does that seem fair to you?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: All right, this takes a little bit of explanation. And to start that will be Bryan Barrett, Operations Manager WGNS radio. Give us a bit of
the back story here.
[20:35:00] BRYAN BARRETT, WGNS RADIO OPERATIONS MANAGER: Well, this story is one from 2010, going back to a cold day in 2010 where this child was,
along with several other children, in the back of Pomeroy`s vehicle and, as a matter of fact, here`s where the story just really gets strange here.
The toddler and another toddler were on the floor in the vehicle as Pomeroy actually drove a teenager to school, covered with a blanket. And Pomeroy
covered the victim with this blanket and that`s how the child actually suffocated on the floorboard of a vehicle. A small Sedan with five kids in
the back of this sedan.
LALAMA: All right. Now, before we get to why she`s now free, Matt Zarrell, Nancy Grace producer, give us a short synopsis of what she was convicted of
and what the deal entailed?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: OK. So she pled guilty to a charge of child endangerment and then she`d been that they call a best interest plea
which is known as an alter plea or a no-contest plea to other charges including attempted aggravated child neglect, reckless endangerment,
reckless homicide, and as part of a plea deal, she was given 16 years in jail, Pat, but only 5 would actually be served; the other 11 would be on
probation.
LALAMA: All right. Laural Hemenway prosecuted the case of Jennifer Pomeroy. And now there`s all this -- let`s just call it -- big reaction in the media
about why she`s out. I`m sure you have a good explanation for it.
LAURAL HEMENWAY, PROSECUTED JENNIFER POMEROY: I have an explanation, and whether it`s good or not, I guess that depends on whether you like the laws
or not.
LALAMA: But it is the law.
HEMENWAY: Well, the laws are -- in Tennessee, the laws are so complicated that initially in this case I would say that an investigation of a criminal
case is only going to be as good as the investigation.
You have a child suffocation. There is very little absolute proof of the suffocation. It`s basically a whittling of everything else out. And there
are some things that can be identified by a coroner and medical examiner.
In this case, the first medical examination came back as undetermined. So we were dealing with a case that we had to go back to the medical examiner.
We had to actually find a replica of this car, put all the objects that were in it based on all the testimony and then go back to the medical
examiner`s office and say, wait a minute, you didn`t know this. You didn`t take this into consideration.
If you had known this, if this is true, does that make any difference to what your findings are? And it did in this case.
However, we were still dealing with the complications, and to me a lot of the complications come from the initial investigation was inadequate and
(inaudible).
LALAMA: OK. You know, I`m going to stop you right there because what I want to do, with all due respect, is I want to get the reaction of Eric Adkins
who is the father of this baby. And I know you are not feeling very good about the fact that this woman is now a free woman.
ERIC ADKINS, FATHER OF VICTIM, ANNALEE: Not at all.
LALAMA: Why not, Eric? She did -- she did time and you feel that it should have been day for day, five years not a minute, not a second short.
ADKINS: That`s correct. Correct. I think five years should have been five years. You know. We were made aware that there was a time credit that she
could receive that would get her out possibly six months early but that`s 4-1/2 years, and she didn`t even serve four years. So, that`s -- I`m
questioning why and I can`t seem to get a straight answer from anybody as to why.
Nobody seems to know why. Everybody has their opinion or they think that they know the law or the statute, but when I take their explanation and
cross reference it with another department to see what their reaction is to that explanation, nobody`s -- nobody jives on it. Everybody`s got their own
opinion and none of them are the same.
So, I wanna know ...
(CROSSTALK)
LALAMA: Let me ask Bryan Barrett, operations -- I don`t blame you. Bryan Barrett, can you tell us what is the official reason? Is it simply a case
of credit for good behavior like happens all across the country?
This wasn`t a special privilege of any kind that she got out early, correct?
BARRETT: That`s what we`ve been able to find, that there is, you know, just really not a good explanation as to why. Was there, you know, time for good
behavior or this, that and the other?
It really kind of brings to light, you know, was this truth in sentencing, if you will. It`s kind of an issue that I think Mr. Adkins was bringing up
there, three years eight months ...
(CROSSTALK)
LALAMA: Hold on.
BARRETT: ... that`s ...
(CROSSTALK)
LALAMA: Hold on, Bryan. Hold on. I`m sorry for interrupting. Matt Zarrell, what`s the answer?
[20:40:00] ZARRELL: OK. So the answer is that if you`re sentenced to county jail, which is what she was sentenced to, good time credit, the law in
Tennessee says you will have your sentence reduced by one quarter of the sentence.
So looking at a 60-month sentence for five years, the quarter would be 45 months which would be about how long she actually served.
LALAMA: So the lawyers, either one of you, yes or no, good or bad, good situation or not?
PARAG SHAH, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, from the defense perspective, it`s a good situation because, with any sentence, there`s two components, the
punishment, deterrence, and then the rehabilitative aspect of it.
And that`s kind of what the parole board takes into consideration, whether there`s going to be future criminal behavior. They look at her background
and her history.
And the other part to remember is that the total sentence is 16 years. So even though she`s not going to be in prison, she`s still going to be
supervised, still going to have conditions and still going to be under supervised basically release and be monitored.
LALAMA: David Bruno?
BRUNO: Yeah, it`s all -- this is too common, to be quite honest, because when victims and victims` families hear sentences, they don`t necessarily
have the right expectations as to when somebody may be eligible for parole or the credits that they would get.
Eric said it before. He was advised that she may get some credits off that sentence, and this is, in fact, what happened, not only credits but
probably she`s been paroled.
So this is a product of the system. The judge may set parole ineligibility and there are some crimes that have it in the statute itself. So to
properly understand how many days someone`s going to get, you have to understand the parole system.
LALAMA: The family of a missing mother of two pleading for her safe return. Jordan Wilson, last seen May 15th near Alabama`s Cullman County Line. Her
car found abandoned seven miles away from where she was last seen. The tip line is Cullman County Sheriff`s Office, 256-734-0342.
[20:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LALAMA: I`m Pat LaLama, in for Nancy Grace. Controversy swirling after a toddler boy falls into a gorilla exhibit at the Cincinnati Zoo. The gorilla
shot dead by zoo keepers, and now a full-scale investigation could end in charges. It`s all on video but here`s the question, who is to blame?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Cincinnati Zoo standing behind their call to kill the gorilla named Harambe.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re talking about an animal with one hand, that I`ve seen take a coconut and crack it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A 3-year-old child has fallen into the gorilla cage and the gorilla is slamming the child into the wall and the child is in the
water.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: If ever there was a water cooler controversy, this is it. So much reaction. Melissa Neeley, anchor/reporter 700 WLW, what is the latest?
MELISSA NEELEY, WELL700 WLW ANCHOR/REPORTER: Well, the latest is the child is going to be OK at this point but there has been quite an outlash on
social media against the parents and the mother that was at the scene when the boy got away from her and crawled over a barrier and fell an amazing 15
feet into a moat and into the gorilla exhibit where a silverback male approached the young boy.
LALAMA: You know, here`s something I want to know, Michael Christian, Nancy Grace producer. I don`t have a clear sense, and I know you have a picture
to put up.
I don`t have a clear sense of this fence. So, when you see - now, I`ve seen the picture so I have a better idea of how high it is.
Now, the zoo -- there it is. That`s not the child in question, just so you know. And this child is 5 years old.
So Michael Christian, it looks like you could just lift your leg up and get over this. Explain to me the scenario. I know the zoo claims they followed
protocol, but it looks too darn easy to get into that gorilla area.
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Yeah, they not only say, Pat, that they followed protocol, but that it has been inspected many times by the
U.S. government and found to be in compliance.
It is apparently a three-feet tall metal fence or barrier. There is also wire and there`s an expanse of brush between the metal part of the fence
and where you would actually go over into the moat.
LALAMA: Dr. William Morrone, Forensic Pathologist, Medical Examiner and Toxicologist. The big question, you know, it is sort of damned if you do,
damned if they don`t.
If they hadn`t killed the gorilla and something happened to the child, then it would be a whole different kind of outrage. But doctor, what could that
gorilla -- what kind of injuries, what`s likely to have happened to that child?
DR. WILLIAM MORRONE, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: A silverback gorilla is extremely strong. It`s as strong as six men. And a gorilla like that can
break human bones in a snap. And what happened is it was exposed to a small child.
There is not enough muscle or fat to pad anything so when you start slamming a child into trees or rocks or walls, you can get brain damage,
you can get broken bones and you can get internal damage.
I`m very sad about what happened, but I don`t know what their alternatives were.
LALAMA: Grey Stafford, wildlife and animal behavior expert, author of "Zoomility." You know, I am a huge, huge animal lover, but I`m trying to
understand this from all sides.
You know, I can see it from every single side. I`m devastated over the death of this gorilla, but for heaven`s sakes, we`ve got to look at the
reality of this. What would that gorilla most likely have done to this child?
[20:50:00] GREY STAFFORD, WILDLIFE & ANIMAL BEHAVIOR EXPERT: Well, that`s beyond question. And judging by its agitated behavior, the child was at
risk. And I think your previous guest said it well.
It`s a pretty sad situation. None of us are happy about what happened, but I do think it`s important to rejoice in the fact that a young boy is still
alive today because the zoo took quick action, a decisive action, an unfortunately necessary action.
LALAMA: David Bruno, defense attorney and also Parag Shah, defense attorney. Who is going to get sued? Is the family going to get sued here?
Who wants to go first?
SHAH: Well I can tell you that I don`t think suing anybody would be good in this situation. Many states have apportionment laws where they are going to
apportion faults and based on all the media outcry, I don`t know that you`re going to get over the 50 percent hurdle that you`re going to need
between the zoo and the mother. They may say 50/50, nobody is going to win and all it`s going to do is just cause more problems.
BRUNO: I think there`s certainly going to be civil lawsuits. What there shouldn`t be here is a prosecution against the mother.
And this is a tragedy. The gorilla has been killed. A child has been manhandled by a gorilla and a mother has had witnessed what happened to her
child. And the last thing that we need to do right now is to be prosecuting a mother for neglect or child endangerment.
That is not the intention of these statutes. Those statues should be used for situations like shaking baby or corporal punishment. Not -- we
shouldn`t be in the business of prosecuting parents because they lose sight of their children. There would be a number of parents that will be
prosecuted in that case.
[20:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The gorilla was clearly agitated. The gorilla was clearly disoriented.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Naturally, we did not take the shooting of Harambe lightly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But that child`s life was in danger.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: I`m Pat LaLama, in for Nancy Grace. Chloe Carmichael, we haven`t asked this question. What likely psychological trauma is there going to be
for this child, if at all?
CARMICHAEL: Well, Pat, that is such an interesting question. The trajectory for the child`s psychology from this point really depends a lot, I think,
upon the parents and the adults around him.
They should absolutely give him time and space to process the emotions that would come up from something like this, like of course, fear and confusion.
But what they really should not do is they should make sure that they don`t coddle him and start attributing every bad thing that he ever says or does,
oh, it must be because of the gorilla, because they don`t want to start to frame this for him as some kind of a life-shaping event when it comes to
resiliency.
We want to accept that it was a terrible thing that happened, but that we can move forward.
LALAMA: Michael Christian, what is the status of this child today?
CHRISTIAN: He`s a very lucky little boy, Pat. He did -- he was taken to the hospital, they checked him out, but he suffered very minor injuries ...
(CROSSTALK)
LALAMA: Wow.
CHRISTIAN: ... and he`s back home with his family.
LALAMA: And then back to Grey Stafford, wildfire and animal behavior expert. You know, we all want to humanize animals. I do. I treat my dogs
like children. Treat my cats like children.
We all want to do that, but it`s quite a different thing that we have to keep in perspective, is it not? When we look at that gorilla we think, oh,
he`s trying to save the baby, but we don`t know that, right?
STAFFORD: You`re absolutely right. And in fact, the animal was so agitated. I think your previous guest put it very well that the child could have very
easily been hurt.
I think people are naturally angry and the better thing to do to channel their anger is to call their congressperson out to insist that research
dollars that have been going towards Ebola research to find a cure, a vaccine, continue to go to Ebola because that would not only save human
lives, it would save gorilla lives in Central or Western Africa.
LALAMA: In terms of injuries, Dr. William Morrone, I mean, we just cannot fathom how powerful this gorilla is. He`s darling, he`s handsome, I want to
hug him, but that ain`t smart, is it?
MORRONE: No. And it`s not that the gorilla is being malicious, it`s that they are natural walking structure, carrying their own weight, they can
hang 300 or 400 pounds one hand from a tree and that`s the same strength that a gorilla would hold a child which would have crush injuries if you
squeezed it the same strength as a loaf of light bread. So ...
(CROSSTALK)
LALAMA: Very quickly. Very quickly, I have to do this. Lawyers, really quick. I want short answers. If the zoo was following protocol, could it
still be liable? Go as fast as you can.
BRUNO: Absolutely. I mean, there`s a reason -- like I said, there`s going to be civil lawsuit and money is going to be paid. They could have done
more. They could have raised the fence, they could have done a number of things and they`ll ultimately ...
(CROSSTALK)
LALAMA: But they were following protocol. Doesn`t that save them if they were ...
(CROSSTALK)
BRUNO: No.
LALAMA: ... going by the State guidelines?
BRUNO: No.
SHAH: No. They have a duty to keep the premises reasonably safe. And we can say they didn`t.
BRUNO: Yeah. We can all agree that fence should have been bigger. So let`s start there.
LALAMA: But I guess, real quickly, I`m saying if there`s a law that says you have to do A,B and C and they did A,B and C, then how can they be
liable?
SHAH: Well, there`s no real law. It`s a duty. They have a duty to protect and that`s the standard. It`s going to be an objective standard. And what
should a reasonable zoo have done.
LALAMA: All right. We remember American hero Jeremiah Robinson, 20 years old, from Mesa, Arizona. He was awarded the Bronze Star and Purple Heart.
An avid sportsman and carpenter, remembered as an old soul. He leaves behind his parents Burt and Amy; brothers, Jacob and Lucas. Jeremiah
Robinson, an American hero.
Thank you for being with us tonight. I`m Pat LaLama, in for Nancy Grace. "Forensic Files" coming up next.
[21:00:00]
END
