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Nancy Grace

Stanford Ex-Swimmer Sentence Cut; Yoga Expert Released and Charges Dropped; High Powered Financial Guru Suspected of Stabbing Wife. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired June 09, 2016 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Stanford University ex-champion swimmer gets a slap on the wrist for raping an unconscious woman, just six

months in county jail after a jury finds him guilty on three felony sex attacks on an unconscious girl outside a campus frat party.

We dig up the champion swimmer`s original mugshot, not the glamour shot he wants you to see. The Good Samaritan grad student who saves the victim

says she was unconscious the entire time and then breaks down crying, recalling the moment he saves her. Now allegations the Stanford swimming

star turned rapist actually lies to the judge?

Bombshell tonight. The Stanford swimmer turned rapist already has three of his six-month sentence cut. What, after just a few days behind bars? And

evidence emerges he`s using a bong, concentrated marijuana and acid around the time of the rape? Well, that`s not what he told the judge.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Brock Turner is not acknowledging that he assaulted the victim. Instead, he seems to be blaming his actions on alcohol and the

party culture of college.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Party culture at Stanford seemed to overwhelm him. These documents show that he seems to have been drinking and using drugs

before he got here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: That`s from ABC`S "GMA."

Did 37-year-old yoga expert Alexandria Duval intentionally drive her beautiful identical twin sister off a 200-foot cliff, plunging the Ford

Explorer onto a rocky shore? Outrage tonight. In the last hours, a judge orders her released and he drops the charges.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Power the body, power the soul.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: An argument inside and a passenger pulling the driver`s hair. The vehicle plowed through the rock wall, falling 200 feet.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They did not brake. There was no braking that took place.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Can I go to her funeral? A high-powered financial guru actually jokes with police when he`s suspected of stabbing his gorgeous wife 22

times in a "Psycho"-style shower attack.

Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.

Bombshell tonight. Stanford University champion swimmer gets a slap on the wrist after raping an unconscious woman, just six months in county jail

after a jury finds him guilty on three felony sex attacks on an unconscious girl? We dig up the champion swimmer`s original mugshot, not the glamour

shot he wants you to see. We know the Good Samaritan who saves her breaks down crying.

Bombshell tonight. What we learn is that this guy has been using very powerful and concentrated marijuana, using a bong, even dropping acid

around the time of the rape? That`s not what he told the judge! And right now, we learn that after a few days, he`s already had three of his six-

month sentence cut short. That is, half his sentence has already been dropped!

OK. Straight out to Dan Simon joining us, CNN correspondent. He`s already had half of his sentence dropped? It`s only been a few days since the

sentencing, and he`s already lost half of his time behind bars? How did that happen?

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, what you see often in California is sentences are cut in half due to jail overcrowding. Whether or not that`s

the case in this situation, we don`t know. But certainly, there is a lot of anger, especially on the Stanford campus, first of all, that he was

getting a six-month sentence. Now we`ve learned that it`s just three months, and that`s only going to add fuel to the fire, Nancy.

GRACE: I`m stunned. Dan Simon, CNN correspondent is joining me right there on the scene. Dan, I`m really flummoxed. I`m really flummoxed. Six

months was bad enough, but now to find out, after just a couple of days, his sentence has been cut in half?

And here`s the rub. Here`s the fly in the ointment, Dan Simon. When the judge, Judge Aaron Persky, sentenced him to six months, we all know

everybody in the system -- I know, defense lawyers know, the sheriffs know. Everybody knows that you typically do not do even half your jail time.

[20:05:08]You get a 10-year sentence on a burglary, you know what you`ll do? Maybe one year. You get a 10-year sentence on, I don`t know, an ag

assault, you might do three years -- for different reasons, but jail overcrowding.

So when the judge sentenced him, Dan Simon, to six months, that judge knew he`d probably only do two or three months. We knew that when it went down,

and so did the judge, Dan.

SIMON: Well, that`s precisely why this judge is being subjected to a possible recall. You need 70,000 signatures to get his name on the ballot.

If that`s successful, he could be recalled in November.

And it`s pretty remarkable, Nancy, that this judge who is facing so much scrutiny just got a brand-new six-year term. There was this election, of

course, that we heard about on Tuesday, and he was uncontested. And because of that, he gets a brand-new term.

GRACE: Yes, he wasn`t even on the ballot. You know something that you just said, Dan Simon -- you know what I don`t like about what you just

said? You said a possible recall. I don`t like the word "possible recall." There needs to be a recall when this judge sentenced this three-

time convicted rapist to three felonies to six months behind bars! He knew he`d never do the six months.

Joining me, in addition to CNN correspondent Dan Simon, is Sergeant James Jensen, the Santa Clara County`s sheriff`s office. Sergeant, thank you for

being with us. Sergeant, look, I know it`s not the jail`s fault. I`m not coming down on you. But how in the hey has it already been clipped by

half?

SGT. JAMES JENSEN, SANTA CLARA COUNTY SHERIFF`S DEPARTMENT: The sheriff`s office`s responsibility is the care and custody of inmates. We`re told

when we need to release the inmate. And in this case, it`s September 2nd.

GRACE: Wow. Wow. Now, how is that decided? So this is not something generated by the jail, where you go, Oh, you know what? I got too many

child molesters and murderers and dope dealers. I`m going to let this kid out. How do you -- how is that decision generated that this is the guy

that`s going to get out in half of his jail time?

JENSEN: This has to come from a judge or the courthouse to let the sheriff`s office know when to release this guy.

GRACE: Whoa! So you`re telling me the judge decided this?

JENSEN: Judge and state law would have decided this, when his release date would have been.

GRACE: Wow. And you`re saying specifically it`s September 2, September 2nd. Joining me is Sergeant James Jensen with the Santa Clara County

sheriff`s office. So September 2?

JENSEN: That is correct. September 2nd of this year, he will be released from our custody.

GRACE: Wow. OK. Joining me also is Will Garbe, reporter with "The Dayton Daily News," along with Dan Simon and Sergeant Jensen. Will Garbe, what

did you find out? I mean, I don`t really even know where to start because number one, six months was bad enough, but now it`s three months. He`s out

in September, September 2.

But we also are learning tonight that there is evidence that proves he lied to the judge, evidence on his cell phone, evidence regarding him using

concentrated marijuana, smoking a bong, even dropping acid? Will, what do you know?

WILL GARBE, "DAYTON DAILY NEWS" (via telephone): Well, Nancy, "The Dayton Daily News" has learned that Turner texted a friend -- this is what the

prosecutors told the judge. Turner texted a friend about doing acid or to find a hook-up to purchase acid when he was still here in Dayton around

July 2014. And he told a friend that he did acid, and that friend in return bragged about something called "candy flipping," which, apparently,

is where a drug user takes LSD and MDMA (ph) together. Turner, according to prosecutors, replied and said that he needed to try it because it,

quote, "sounds awesome."

GRACE: I`ve got it. Hold on. "Oh, dude, I did acid with so-and-so last week?" What? "Did you rage last night?" "yes, kind of. It was hard to

find a place to drink. But when we finally did, we could only drink for an hour-and-a-half"? We could only drink for an hour-and-a-half? And he`s

talking about "dabbing."

All right, Dave Mack, syndicated talk show host, what`s dabbing? Can you tell the viewers what that is?

DAVE MACK, SYNDICATED TALK SHOW HOST: It`s a term they use when they`re using the concentrated marijuana. And it`s like a butter. It`s just one

of the street slang terms that they use. Experienced drug people use this term.

[20:10:12]GRACE: Whoa. Back to Will Garbe, reporter with "The Dayton Daily News." Now, you are privy to cell phone evidence, according to you,

from Brock Allen Turner`s cell phone, revealing him doing acid and other drugs. But what did he tell the judge, Will Garbe?

GARBE: Well, Nancy, it was a little bit different. To the judge in the case, Turner said that he came from a small town in Ohio. He wasn`t really

exposed to celebrations with alcohol. And that was different from what he apparently was telling friends when he was texting them.

GRACE: Well, I guess so. Will Garbe, "Dayton Daily News," again, I believe you`re putting perfume on the pig, Garbe, because saying he tells

the judge one thing and he tells his friends another thing -- that`s an outright lie, an outright lie to the judge! And when you are speaking to

the judge or you fill out affidavits or reports that go to the judge, that is akin to perjury. Lying to a judge?

And yet even with all of this, acid, dabbing, concentrated marijuana, using a bong, now that we find out all this in direct lies to the judge, what do

we get? We get a sentence reduction, Will Garbe. I don`t understand that.

GARBE: Well, Nancy, we are looking into it, at least. You know, something interesting that folks might take a look at -- we`ve learned also that some

of the folks who`ve written letters to the judge in support of Brock Turner -- that they`ve been getting threats at work. One woman told us that she

feels that if people stopped criticizing her and were -- stopped being so hateful -- now, Nancy, this was the Oakwood municipal court judge, the

judge in the home town where he`s from, said, If people stop being so hateful and they look at the whole cultural situation, they could change

campuses and culture on campuses.

Now, she`s received a few threats at work, and we`re still digging into seeing what her next move is.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[20:16:18]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was a bit ironic that the judge in this case, Aaron Persky, just got a brand-new six-year term. He was supposed to

face re-election, but because nobody challenged him, he automatically got that term.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People are joining together to get him off the bench.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The punishment does not fit the crime.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is this effort under way to recall him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: It just keeps getting worse with this case, like, piling and piling on because tonight, we learn the guy who gets a sweetheart deal of just six

months behind bars on a rape, three counts -- the six months is now three months. He`s hardly had time to take a nap, and he`s already had his

sentence reduced, cut in half.

Not only that, we find -- let me just say euphemistically "inconsistencies" in what he tells the judge and what we`re finding, what has been found on

his cell phone, evidence that he was, quote, "dabbing," which is using highly concentrated marijuana, using bongs, dropping acid, candy flipping.

To Dr. Lee Norman, chief medical officer at University of Kansas Hospital. Dr. Norman, explain to me why is dabbing, as it is called, so popular?

DR. LEE NORMAN, UNIVERSITY OF KANSAS HOSPITAL: Well, it`s a very concentrated form. The euphoria that is felt from that is much more

intense. The samples that he, I`m sure, has been asked to give will tell a certain amount of the story because this drug lasts in the system a long

time.

GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Joining me, Troy Slaten out of LA, and Yosha Gunasekera out of New York.

Troy Slaten, not only this, we are finding out that by his own admission, that he had already gotten in trouble for drinking on campus before. He

had already had an incident before. He never said anything about that to the judge. All of this is highly inconsistent with what he told the judge.

TROY SLATEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, first of all, with regard to having his sentence cut, that`s what happens to every single person that is

sentenced to probation and serves time in the county jail. You have your sentence cut by half. It`s automatic. It has nothing to do with what the

judge did or what the sheriff`s department is doing...

GRACE: Hold on. I want to follow up on that, Troy.

SLATEN: ... or anything like that. It is automatic.

GRACE: OK, hold on, Troy Slaten. To Sergeant James Jensen, Santa Clara County sheriff`s office. You`re the expert, Sergeant. Is that true? Does

every single person that gets jail time plus probation, as we used to call it, five to do three, three years in jail followed by two years on

probation, or ten to do five. Does every single person that comes to your jail get their sentence cut in half?

JENSEN: Nancy, that would be a question you would have to ask the court services. Again, we`re just told when to get the release date of that

inmate.

GRACE: So are the different inmates based on the offense -- is it treated differently, or does everybody get out in half the time?

JENSEN: Unfortunately, that would be a question that you`d need to ask the court system.

GRACE: You know what? While you`re answering, back to Troy Slaten and Yosha Gunasekera. Troy Slaten, actually, that makes it even worse for the

judge. If what you`re saying is accurate, that`s even worse because he is a veteran. He`s been on the bench for a while now, a political appointee,

I might add.

[20:20:02]But he should know that. I mean, if you know it, for Pete`s sake, if all the lawyers in the courthouse know it, he should know it. So

he knew when he gave this guy six months -- let me go to you, Yosha -- he knew he`d get out in three months.

YOSHA GUNASEKERA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I think he`s going to be on probation for three years. He`s going to be a lifetime sexual offender on

that registry. So I think that there`s more punishment than just the jail time.

GRACE: Put her up! What -- what? He`s doing three months, Yosha, on three counts of sex attacks!

(CROSSTALK)

GUNASEKERA: ... sexual offender registry is going to follow him every day of his life.

GRACE: Well, fine! Good!

GUNASEKERA: He won`t be able to go to a thousand feet to a school.

GRACE: I don`t have a problem with that!

GUNASEKERA: He won`t be able to drop his kids off at school. He won`t even be able to get a job. And so that is a consequence that he`ll have to

live...

GRACE: Excuse me.

GUNASEKERA: ... with every single day.

GRACE: Excuse me. Yosha Gunasekera out of New York -- Yosha, did you say he`s going to have to be on probation? Let me ask you a couple of cross-

examination questions, Yosha. While on probation, isn`t it true that unless you violate the terms of your probation, such as leaving the

jurisdiction without permission or using drugs or alcohol, you pretty much can go wherever you want to? You can go shopping. You can go to

restaurants. You can go to movies. You can go out on dates.

GUNASEKERA: Probation officer can drop in on you at any time...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: Yes, that was not my question. My question is, can you go to restaurants?

GUNASEKERA: Yes. But I mean, you`re heavily monitored.

GRACE: OK. Can you go out to...

(CROSSTALK)

GUNASEKERA: ... it is a punishment.

GRACE: You`re not heavily monitored! You`re not heavily monitored on probation. Don`t try with me, Yosha, OK? I`ve helped sentence thousands,

literally thousands of people to jail time plus probation.

(CROSSTALK)

GUNASEKERA: ... allegations that have come to light, they can force him to do drug testing. They can force him to go to programs. They can force him

to go to therapy.

GRACE: Do you have a problem with that? Do you have a problem with this three-time convicted rapist -- do you have a problem with him having drug

testing? I mean, what`s so bad about drug testing?

GUNASEKERA: All I`m saying is probation is not a cakewalk. It`s not a walk in the park. It is a punishment.

GRACE: It`s a walk in the park!

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:26:22]UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "There were witnesses. There was dirt in my body."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I checked her, and she didn`t move at all.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Carl Frederick Arndt (ph) and his friend later told authorities that they saw Turner on top of the victim, aggressively

thrusting his hips into her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Bra spilled out of my dress, that I was butt naked all the way down to my boots."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: That from CBS "This Morning."

Also Dan Simon, CNN correspondent joining us there on the scene -- Dan, is it true that, by some, I assume, snafu, that the wrong box was checked on

his processing papers that made him a low-risk offender versus a medium to high-risk offender?

SIMON: Well, I`m not exactly sure about that, Nancy. That`s something you`d have to ask authorities, but one thing that I think is very

interesting in this case -- and we haven`t talked about it much -- is that dozens of people wrote letters on this young man`s behalf. And one is a

young woman from Ohio who grew up with the defendant, Brock Turner. And she said something there that apparently offended a lot of people and she

seemed to discount the woman`s claims, so one woman discounting another woman`s claims.

And she took a major backlash. She`s a musician. She`s in a band. And guess what? All of the gigs that she had coming up have been canceled. So

it just goes to show you that it`s not just this judge (INAUDIBLE) it`s not just this judge that`s getting the backlash and the system here in Santa

Clara County. It`s anybody who has defended Brock Turner.

GRACE: Yes, I hate to see his friends bearing the brunt of this because I don`t think he really knew what they were getting into. I don`t know if

they really knew the facts of the case. They may have just known what he told them.

You know, Stacey Newman on the story. I want to follow up on this, the incorrect box checked on the processing papers. It should have been

checked "an attack on a stranger." I don`t know why that makes a difference, Stacey, whether you rape a stranger or you rape somebody you

know, but apparently, to them, it does.

Explain to me what happened.

STACEY NEWMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, the box says if the victim was a stranger -- the box said no, and she actually was. If the bock was

checked yes, he would have been moved up to the next category, as you said, medium to high risk. This report -- that was weighed in the decision to

let him out early. And remember, he told police he could not remember who this woman was, if he was ever to see her again.

GRACE: So that was totally wrong in the papers. He was processed incorrectly, therefore treated as low risk versus medium to high risk.

Joining me right now, psychoanalyst Dr. Bethany Marshall. You know, Bethany, I just want to reach in there and grab that gum right out of his

mouth. Do you see him just chomping on gum in the courtroom? I mean, this whole...

BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Absolutely.

GRACE: The whole thing is wrong.

MARSHALL: So all of this, that he didn`t know what he was doing -- he actually performed a sex act so he was somewhat in his right mind.

[20:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Did 37-year-old yoga expert, Alexandria Duval, intentionally drive her beautiful identical twin off a 200-foot cliff, plunging the Ford

Explorer on to the rocks?

Outrage tonight. In the last hours, a judge orders her released and all the charges dropped.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Twin yoga teachers were in their Ford Explorer.

ALAN AKINA, SAW CRASH AFTERMATH: ... stopped in the middle of the road.

And it had its hazard lights on and we saw two girls fighting, screaming. And we saw hair being pulled.

The driver turns the hazard lights off and puts the car in drive and then floored it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... plunged 200 feet off a cliff, killing one sister.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[20:35:00] GRACE: This is a puzzle that has perplexed many legal eagles and court watchers. Two sisters, absolutely stunning, young, rolling in money

from their yoga studio empire. Apparently feud and fuss, a bitter rivalry, deep-seated jealousies until one drives their Ford Explorer off a cliff,

killing Anastasia Duval, her twin sister. Listen to these two.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... you are going to sweat and surrender at the same time with music.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you will certainly do a double-take when owners Ann and Alison Dadow opened Twin Power Yoga.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We love the energy. West Palm Beach is the heartbeat in this entire district. And Twin Power Yoga, our tag line, is power the

body, power the soul, that`s exactly what you get in our hot power yoga discipline.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: There you see them touting one of their many yoga studios. They did extremely well amid allegations that, after many, many members join giving

membership fees, two in Palm Beach, one studio in West Palm, they pack up and leave.

Everybody high and dry, head to another posh resort, Park City, where virtually the same thing happens. But Chris Spargo, back to the issue at

hand, Chris Spargo, reporter from dailymail.com.

Chris, do I understand this correctly? A judge has let her walk free and dropped all the charges?

CHRIS SPARGO, DAILYMAIL.COM REPORTER: That is correct. She was being held on no bail for second-degree murder charges and then a judge has decided to

drop all the charges against her, saying they don`t believe the prosecutors produced enough evidence to support that charge.

GRACE: Now, let me understand something. The judge said, Chris Spargo, dailymail.com, where did the judge fault what the prosecution presented?

Did he say that the prosecution did not prove it was not an accident?

SPARGO: That is correct. He spoke to the prosecution and they had a few witnesses called. And he said that still didn`t reach the burden of proof

they needed to keep her.

GRACE: According to Corporal Dwaine Parker, accident reconstructionist, Corporal, before I get into the judge`s ruling, you know what? Hold on,

Corporal.

Joining me right now is Alan Akina, who saw the crash aftermath, knows what happened. Alan, isn`t it true that she never hit the brakes, instead she

accelerated off the cliff?

Do I have Alan Akina with me? Alan, are you there? OK, hold on while I wait on him.

Matt Zarrell, eyewitnesses state she never hit the brakes. In fact, she accelerated off the cliff.

MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: In fact, Nancy, the state presented evidence that two seconds prior to impact with the rock wall, the

accelerator on the car was pressed down to the floor 100 percent. So she floored it right before the crash.

GRACE: Floored it. Floored it. And take a look at this rocky cliff. How could you not know it`s a cliff? A, they have been living there for -- how

long had they been living there, Chris Spargo?

SPARGO: Just a little less than a year at this point. Not that long.

GRACE: Well -- I mean, Chris, you`ve been living somewhere a year, you drive by the same blue ocean everyday. So how is it then -- I don`t

understand how they could claim she didn`t know there was a cliff right there? I mean, you look out. You see the ocean. Spargo?

SPARGO: Yeah. I mean, the eyewitnesses are all agreeing with you, too. It`s unclear what the judge saw here because according to people on the scene,

she very deliberately made a turn, did not try to brake and went veering off that cliff.

GRACE: OK, listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EMLYN HIGA, MAUI DEPUTY PROSECUTING ATTORNEY: Now, the data that you were able to analyze, was that five seconds before the second event or the first

event?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The first event.

HIGA: OK, so you have data for the five seconds before the vehicle hit the rock wall?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

HIGA: For the five seconds before it hit the rock wall, what did that data indicate as far as the operation of the vehicle?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The initial speed of the vehicle five seconds before the airbags deployed was around 25 miles per hour and then that speed gradually

increased over the five-second period to the time of airbag deployment to around 40 to 48 miles per hour.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was bleeding from the face and she was not responsive nor did she have a pulse.

HIGA: And the fire personnel that were there ultimately extracted the passenger from the backseat of the vehicle, is that correct?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Correct.

HIGA: Were you able to make further observations as to her physical condition?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir.

HIGA: What did you observe?

[20:40:00] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: While carrying the deceased out of the vehicle, it was obvious that there were numerous broken bones, possibly

throughout the back as well as a right broken femur.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: So to Corporal Dwaine Parker, accident reconstructionist, joining us out of Naples, Florida.

Corporal Parker, thank you for being with us. How can it be argued she`s been living there a year, this is her well-traveled path. I mean, if you

look out, you see the ocean at the bottom of the cliff. Instead of braking, she accelerated. How could that be an accident?

CORPORAL DWAINE PARKER, ACCIDENT RECONSTRUCTIONIST: Well, as an investigator, I`d have to give a lot of weight to the credible witness that

you have that saw the fight and the argument of this domestic dispute inside the vehicle prior to the crash and it`s very plausible that if they

were in a heated argument, she starts to drive off and the sister re- engages that physical fight and starts to pull her hair and pull her out of the driver`s compartment.

At that point, she`s maybe fighting for her life and unable to actually know what she`s actually doing and her legs extend, trying to get leverage.

She reaches up, tries to grab the steering wheel to get sort of a brace, the wheel turns.

And so these things happen but it was not for the intent of causing the crash itself but it was a by-product of the domestic dispute of the

physical altercation that was happening inside of the vehicle at the time.

GRACE: Well, Corporal, she not only kept her foot on the gas, she floored it.

PARKER: Right. And you know, with her leg -- if she`s being pulled out of the driver`s compartment, her leg extends at this point and she`s trying to

reach for something.

So now, I don`t know if the state had enough evidence to say that her leg was extended because of this fight or because it was an intentional act.

And without that burden of proof of probable cause to show what was happening, the state really doesn`t have much of a case at this point. And

I think the judge ...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: You know, I just see it bass-ackwards. To Alan Akina, who actually saw what went down. Mr. Akina, thank you for being with us. You said at no

time did the car hit the brakes. In fact, people were afraid they were going to get run down. And the fact that they`re having a fight, a physical

fight in the car, I don`t know what difference that actually makes. What did you see, Alan?

AKINA: You know, my scout leaders that were facing them and that were the last ones to see them before they went off the cliff, said they were just

in an all-out brawl, a fight, and they were screaming and swearing and pulling of hair and that`s the same thing that happened in multiple spots

in that same city, that same area, reported by multiple -- the locals. So they`d been fighting for quite a while. Now, this ...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: What did you make of the murder charge being dropped?

AKINA: Well, here`s the thing. She had the presence of mind before she took off, before she accelerated, to turn off the hazard lights. Put it in

drive.

Now, if you`re thinking about turning off the hazard lights and put it in drive, then you know, why would you drive off a cliff? I mean, you know, if

you know you`re going to drive off the cliff, leave the lights on.

[20:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: `Can I go to her funeral?` A high-powered financial guru actually jokes with police when he is suspected of stabbing his gorgeous wife 22

times in a "Psycho"-style shower attack.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Reich ambushed his wife, Dr. Robin Goldman, while she was in the shower.

He used an 8-inch kitchen knife to repeatedly stab her some 22 times in the chest, stomach and back, puncturing her heart, lung, liver and kidney.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: When we say, "Psycho"-style attack, let me show you what we`re talking about. Look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(SCREAMS)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: That is "Psycho" from Universal Pictures Home Entertainment. And that`s what we`re talking about.

And after that kind of attack where his wife is stabbed 22 times, he actually jokes with police. Joining me, Lisa G., with 24/7 news WOR. Lisa,

thank you for being with us. What exactly did he say? What happened, Lisa?

LISA G., 24/7 NEWS WOR RADIO: Well, they said, like you hinted at, that he was a little psycho. He allegedly requested anxiety medication and

speculated that his wife`s death was probably a homicide. And Nancy, he also asked cops for a pastry. He wanted a Danish.

GRACE: OK. Wait. Matt Zarrell, let me understand something. So he asks police for, what, coffee and doughnuts?

ZARRELL: Yeah. He wanted a turkey sandwich with mustard and coleslaw. And at one point, he mentioned he was grieving and in the same breath that he

mentions he`s grieving, he asked if he`ll be able to go to the services for his wife.

GRACE: Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, author of "Deal Breakers." Dr. Bethany, his wife has been stabbed 22 times. His response, yeah, that might

be a homicide. He`s the only one in the house, Bethany.

But what I want to ask you about, Dr. Bethany, is demanding a turkey sandwich with mustard, pastry and hot coffee. He also complained about the

temperature where he was sitting and asked for a magazine. Help me.

[20:50:00] DR. BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Can we say big, fat baby? I mean, honestly, Nancy, what we see with sociopath is this would fit the

profile of sociopathic behavior, and that sociopaths have very little anxiety about getting into trouble.

They lack cause and effect thinking. They have a difficult time anticipating negative consequences to their behaviors. They have low levels

of empathy towards others and honestly, they often commit homicide in response to very small insults or because they are not going to get their

way.

I mean, my understanding is that they were going through a divorce. They were about to meet with their financial -- the person is going to plan the

financial settlement that day, and there is a possibility that if this alleged homicide was his fault, that there was some financial motivation to

get rid of her.

But that obviously, sociopaths lack big-picture thinking, so he couldn`t grasp the fact that when the policemen come to the house, that they might

think that he did it or that the financial reward would not make him look very good.

GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Troy Slaten and Yosha Gunasekera.

All right, to you, Slaten, she`s dead in the shower, 22 stab wounds. He is the only one in the house and he demands a turkey sandwich with mustard, a

Danish coffee and a magazine. Thoughts?

TROY SLATEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: He is obviously nuts. I mean. he wasn`t trying to hide this. He is asking the cops what they think about Hillary

Clinton and Donald Trump. He is asking for a turkey sandwich. This guy is out of his mind. And so clearly ...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: He had enough wherewithal, Yosha, to hide the knife in his newspaper.

YOSHA GUNASEKERA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I still don`t think that rules out a potential insanity defense. He still might not understand what`s right from

wrong. I think ...

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Do you two think everybody is crazy that commits a crime?

GUNASEKERA: No, of course not. But I think the fact that he is asking these questions, he is asking for a Danish, he is asking about the presidential

election, all points to the fact that he might be very mentally unstable.

(CROSSTALK)

SLATEN: And he was taking psychotropic medication.

GRACE: That he knows exactly what is going on around him because he`s clearly keeping up with the presidential election.

Everybody, thousands of kids age out of the U.S. foster care system suddenly fend for themselves. No family, nowhere to live. But in L.A., this

week`s CNN hero, Georgie Smith, is working to change that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGIE SMITH, CNN HERO: This population is most the likely to become homeless and to become incarcerated and to be jobless.

The odds are stacked high against them and they finally get to that amazing place of having their own space because they have never had their own home,

and then they`re sleeping on the floor.

We need to lift them up and create this foundation from which they can thrive.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: To see how Georgie gives these former foster kids a real chance, watch her amazing story right now at CNNheroes.com and nominate a 2016 CNN

hero.

[20:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Reich, after being taken into custody, was transported to the hospital to have injuries treated. He was, at all times,

accompanied by a police officer and then he was returned to Scarsdale Headquarters.

Mr. Reich had some injuries to his hand. She was a victim of stab wounds. When Scarsdale officers responded to the scene, she was found in a lifeless

state. Scarsdale Paramedics from the Scarsdale Volunteer Ambulance Corps, two separate paramedics, checked her and found her to be DOA.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jules Reich and Robin Goldman in the middle of a divorce when she was stabbed to death.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The report is a female has been hurt seriously and no further information was given by the calling party.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Reich told the responding officers it was probably a homicide.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And his concern right now is for his family, primarily his children and their well-being.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: To Matt Zarrell on the story, what can you tell me about his cigarette smoking?

ZARRELL: Yes. Authorities said that after the attack, Reich walked into the kitchen, he is covered in blood, he leaves a blood trail and he has a

cigarette. He is sitting there, having a cigarette and waits and then calls 911 to report his wife was hurt seriously. And by the way, DNA on the

cigarette butt matched DNA found on the knife, same male profile.

GRACE: Troy Slaten and Yosha Gunasekera, Yosha, I will let you have a crack at that. So he wants to call 911, but he has to kick back and have a smoke

first. You still think he is crazy?

GUNASEKERA: Yeah. I mean, you can be functioning in society and still be seriously mentally ill. I mean, it`s not just someone who ...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: He`s a financial guru. He handles millions of dollars for other people. He has never had a mental illness evaluation or been treated or on

medication a day in his life. Not once.

GUNASEKERA: He has never had a mental illness evaluation. I think that can state that he may need one. He may be severely mentally ill in this case.

GRACE: Dr. Lee Norman, what do you make of her injuries, 22 stabs?

DR. LEE NORMAN, UNIVERSITY OF KANSAS HOSPITAL CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER: Well, this is going to be evidence all over the place. I`m sure they would be

able to figure out what direction the attack came from, who it was that did it. There would be evidence everywhere.

GRACE: Let`s stop and remember American hero Tennessee Officer Verdell Smith, just 46, killed in the line of duty, Memphis Police. High school

basketball star, created a community youth program. Leaves behind his father, fiancee, one son, two daughters. Verdell Smith, American hero.

Happy birthday to world-class coach Joan Hudgens. Isn`t she beautiful?

Thanks to our guests, but especially to you for being with us. Nancy Grace, signing off. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8 o`clock sharp, Eastern. And

until then, good night, friend.

[21:00:00]

END